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#1
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Ford Ranger question
Ive just finished putting a low mileage 3.0 in my 2001 Ranger (225,000
miles). The current engine came out of a 2003, and has 75k miles on it. After ****ing around for a week, unable to start it, a friend changed the spark plug wires around (seems most of the online diagrams are WRONG) and it started right up. However..when adding throttle over about 1500 rmp..it starts to lope...vroom...vroom...vroom...vroom What the hell is it and how do I fix it? I stuck on the original intake manifold after drilling and taping holes (properly) to use the original intake. Im NOT getting a check engine light and my code reader is isnt showing any codes. Anyone have any ideas? Gunner "In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our country." - David Lloyyd (2008) |
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#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ford Ranger question
Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive just finished putting a low mileage 3.0 in my 2001 Ranger (225,000 miles). The current engine came out of a 2003, and has 75k miles on it. After ****ing around for a week, unable to start it, a friend changed the spark plug wires around (seems most of the online diagrams are WRONG) and it started right up. However..when adding throttle over about 1500 rmp..it starts to lope...vroom...vroom...vroom...vroom What the hell is it and how do I fix it? I stuck on the original intake manifold after drilling and taping holes (properly) to use the original intake. Im NOT getting a check engine light and my code reader is isnt showing any codes. Anyone have any ideas? Gunner Fuel filter or dirty injectors ? -- Snag Learning keeps you young ! |
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#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ford Ranger question
On Sep 22, 1:45*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive just finished putting a low mileage 3.0 in my 2001 Ranger (225,000 miles). *The current engine came out of a 2003, and has 75k miles on it.. After ****ing around for a week, unable to start it, a friend changed the spark plug wires around (seems most of the online diagrams are WRONG) and it started right up. *However..when adding throttle over about 1500 rmp..it starts to lope...vroom...vroom...vroom...vroom What the hell is it and how do I fix it? I stuck on the original intake manifold after drilling and taping holes (properly) to use the original intake. Im NOT getting a check engine light and my code reader is isnt showing any codes. Anyone have any ideas? Gunner "In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our country." - David Lloyyd (2008) www.therangerstation.com for all things ranger related. One thing that I have seen happen on other makes- small changes to the timing reluctor/pickup can make the one in the new engine incompatible with the computer. And, check the fuel pressure. Idle but won't rev is a classic sign. Dave |
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#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ford Ranger question
Throttle body switches are off line. The ECM thinks the throttle is
closed, so goes into decel fuel cut as the rpm passes the ck point. Test this theory by checking an injector with a logic probe ( not a test light). JR Dweller in the cellar On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 07:03:40 -0500, "Snag" wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: Ive just finished putting a low mileage 3.0 in my 2001 Ranger (225,000 miles). The current engine came out of a 2003, and has 75k miles on it. After ****ing around for a week, unable to start it, a friend changed the spark plug wires around (seems most of the online diagrams are WRONG) and it started right up. However..when adding throttle over about 1500 rmp..it starts to lope...vroom...vroom...vroom...vroom What the hell is it and how do I fix it? I stuck on the original intake manifold after drilling and taping holes (properly) to use the original intake. Im NOT getting a check engine light and my code reader is isnt showing any codes. Anyone have any ideas? Gunner Fuel filter or dirty injectors ? HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- |
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#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ford Ranger question
On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 19:22:46 -0700, JR North
wrote: Throttle body switches are off line. The ECM thinks the throttle is closed, so goes into decel fuel cut as the rpm passes the ck point. Test this theory by checking an injector with a logic probe ( not a test light). JR Dweller in the cellar When checking the INJECTORS, a test light is OK - in fact the NORMAL way of testing is to plug in a "noid light" You are working with 12 volts. Typical "logic probes" are for use at TTL levels of +/- 5 volts On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 07:03:40 -0500, "Snag" wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: Ive just finished putting a low mileage 3.0 in my 2001 Ranger (225,000 miles). The current engine came out of a 2003, and has 75k miles on it. After ****ing around for a week, unable to start it, a friend changed the spark plug wires around (seems most of the online diagrams are WRONG) and it started right up. However..when adding throttle over about 1500 rmp..it starts to lope...vroom...vroom...vroom...vroom What the hell is it and how do I fix it? I stuck on the original intake manifold after drilling and taping holes (properly) to use the original intake. Im NOT getting a check engine light and my code reader is isnt showing any codes. Anyone have any ideas? Gunner Fuel filter or dirty injectors ? HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- |
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#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ford Ranger question
On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:00:59 -0700, JR North
wrote: A noid will tell you if the ECM is pulling the circuit low, but does not tell you, if it doesn't flash, why. Also, noid's resistance and current draw are valued to be compatable with CMOS output circuit drivers. Regular test lights are not. A good probe does CMOS also, and very useful for checking both H and L circuits. Also, req for most CMOS and TTL level electronic automotive circuits. Incandesent test lights *may* have very high current draw, and damage output drivers. Why take a chance. JR Dweller in the cellar A test light draws less than an injector - guaranteed - and the driver is, in most cars today, a "peak and hold" driver that regulates the current to the low resistance injector. And the Noid light WILL flash if the injector circuit is firing. The drivers are generally not "tri-state" so they are either on or off, so a logic probe won't tell you anything a "noid light" can't. Unless you can explain it to me - I've been working with EFI for years. Yes - you CAN use a logic probe - but I don't understand what you think it can tell me that the "noid" cannot. It definitely can't tell me if the peak and hold is functioning. Pretty well need a scope for that - and a storage scope would make the job a lot easier. On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 23:31:41 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 19:22:46 -0700, JR North wrote: Throttle body switches are off line. The ECM thinks the throttle is closed, so goes into decel fuel cut as the rpm passes the ck point. Test this theory by checking an injector with a logic probe ( not a test light). JR Dweller in the cellar When checking the INJECTORS, a test light is OK - in fact the NORMAL way of testing is to plug in a "noid light" You are working with 12 volts. Typical "logic probes" are for use at TTL levels of +/- 5 volts On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 07:03:40 -0500, "Snag" wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: Ive just finished putting a low mileage 3.0 in my 2001 Ranger (225,000 miles). The current engine came out of a 2003, and has 75k miles on it. After ****ing around for a week, unable to start it, a friend changed the spark plug wires around (seems most of the online diagrams are WRONG) and it started right up. However..when adding throttle over about 1500 rmp..it starts to lope...vroom...vroom...vroom...vroom What the hell is it and how do I fix it? I stuck on the original intake manifold after drilling and taping holes (properly) to use the original intake. Im NOT getting a check engine light and my code reader is isnt showing any codes. Anyone have any ideas? Gunner Fuel filter or dirty injectors ? HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- |
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#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ford Ranger question
OK. Most ECMs pull the ground circuit low for activation. The injector
power is usually through an external resistor block, or provided by the ECM. With a noid, you have to disconnect the connector, and plug in the noid. If, for instance, the driver for the injector circuit is bad, there is an open or short in the circuit wiring, or there is a problem with the power side, the noid won't flash. Of course, it will flash if the circuit is good. I wasn't aware I implied it wouldn't. But it does not provide any info on WHY it's not flashing. A probe can look at both sides of the circuit, while the injector is being pulsed. No disconnection, which is sometimes very difficult on some systems, and stresses the wiring to boot. The H LED stays lit, the L LED flashes as the driver pulls the circuit low. I have spotted damaged output drivers, for instance, on VW/Audi power stages that drive the coil packs. I Don't think my probe is specifically designed this way, but the intensity of the indicator LEDs will vary with the quality of the signal. A good low pull will light the L LED fully. A leaky driver will show a dimmer LED. MUCH info here. But I agree if you want the whole story, you need a DSO. JR dweller in the cellar On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:20:29 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:00:59 -0700, JR North wrote: A noid will tell you if the ECM is pulling the circuit low, but does not tell you, if it doesn't flash, why. Also, noid's resistance and current draw are valued to be compatable with CMOS output circuit drivers. Regular test lights are not. A good probe does CMOS also, and very useful for checking both H and L circuits. Also, req for most CMOS and TTL level electronic automotive circuits. Incandesent test lights *may* have very high current draw, and damage output drivers. Why take a chance. JR Dweller in the cellar A test light draws less than an injector - guaranteed - and the driver is, in most cars today, a "peak and hold" driver that regulates the current to the low resistance injector. And the Noid light WILL flash if the injector circuit is firing. The drivers are generally not "tri-state" so they are either on or off, so a logic probe won't tell you anything a "noid light" can't. Unless you can explain it to me - I've been working with EFI for years. Yes - you CAN use a logic probe - but I don't understand what you think it can tell me that the "noid" cannot. It definitely can't tell me if the peak and hold is functioning. Pretty well need a scope for that - and a storage scope would make the job a lot easier. On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 23:31:41 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 19:22:46 -0700, JR North wrote: Throttle body switches are off line. The ECM thinks the throttle is closed, so goes into decel fuel cut as the rpm passes the ck point. Test this theory by checking an injector with a logic probe ( not a test light). JR Dweller in the cellar When checking the INJECTORS, a test light is OK - in fact the NORMAL way of testing is to plug in a "noid light" You are working with 12 volts. Typical "logic probes" are for use at TTL levels of +/- 5 volts On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 07:03:40 -0500, "Snag" wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: Ive just finished putting a low mileage 3.0 in my 2001 Ranger (225,000 miles). The current engine came out of a 2003, and has 75k miles on it. After ****ing around for a week, unable to start it, a friend changed the spark plug wires around (seems most of the online diagrams are WRONG) and it started right up. However..when adding throttle over about 1500 rmp..it starts to lope...vroom...vroom...vroom...vroom What the hell is it and how do I fix it? I stuck on the original intake manifold after drilling and taping holes (properly) to use the original intake. Im NOT getting a check engine light and my code reader is isnt showing any codes. Anyone have any ideas? Gunner Fuel filter or dirty injectors ? HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- |
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#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ford Ranger question
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 17:44:20 -0700, JR North
wrote: OK. Most ECMs pull the ground circuit low for activation. The injector power is usually through an external resistor block, or provided by the ECM. MOST systems today do away with the resistor block and feed the injectors "raw" 12 volt power - and ground the injector througha "peak and hold" driver, which provides a full power spike to open the injector, then clamps the current to a safe level, adequate only to HOLD the injector open. With a noid, you have to disconnect the connector, and plug in the noid. If, for instance, the driver for the injector circuit is bad, there is an open or short in the circuit wiring, or there is a problem with the power side, the noid won't flash. So the FIRST check is, is there power to the injection harness? Easily proved with a test light or voltmeter Of course, it will flash if the circuit is good. I wasn't aware I implied it wouldn't. But it does not provide any info on WHY it's not flashing. A probe can look at both sides of the circuit, while the injector is being pulsed. No disconnection, which is sometimes very difficult on some systems, and stresses the wiring to boot. How are you probing? Back probe through the weathertight connector, or poking the wire?? The H LED stays lit, the L LED flashes as the driver pulls the circuit low. I have spotted damaged output drivers, for instance, on VW/Audi power stages that drive the coil packs. I Don't think my probe is specifically designed this way, but the intensity of the indicator LEDs will vary with the quality of the signal. A good low pull will light the L LED fully. The "noid" will give the same indication of power level. In IGNITION testing, there MAY be a case to be made for using the logic probe. Generally, however, i just pulse the coil manually - if it sparks well that way, and not with the ECU triggering it, you question the ECU. A leaky driver will show a dimmer LED. MUCH info here. But I agree if you want the whole story, you need a DSO. JR dweller in the cellar On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:20:29 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:00:59 -0700, JR North wrote: A noid will tell you if the ECM is pulling the circuit low, but does not tell you, if it doesn't flash, why. Also, noid's resistance and current draw are valued to be compatable with CMOS output circuit drivers. Regular test lights are not. And the outputs of the ECU are hardly what you would call "cmos level" - nor are the noids anything special power-wize. A good probe does CMOS also, and very useful for checking both H and L circuits. Also, req for most CMOS and TTL level electronic automotive circuits. Incandesent test lights *may* have very high current draw, and damage output drivers. Why take a chance. JR Dweller in the cellar A test light draws less than an injector - guaranteed - and the driver is, in most cars today, a "peak and hold" driver that regulates the current to the low resistance injector. And the Noid light WILL flash if the injector circuit is firing. The drivers are generally not "tri-state" so they are either on or off, so a logic probe won't tell you anything a "noid light" can't. Unless you can explain it to me - I've been working with EFI for years. Yes - you CAN use a logic probe - but I don't understand what you think it can tell me that the "noid" cannot. It definitely can't tell me if the peak and hold is functioning. Pretty well need a scope for that - and a storage scope would make the job a lot easier. On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 23:31:41 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 19:22:46 -0700, JR North wrote: Throttle body switches are off line. The ECM thinks the throttle is closed, so goes into decel fuel cut as the rpm passes the ck point. Test this theory by checking an injector with a logic probe ( not a test light). JR Dweller in the cellar When checking the INJECTORS, a test light is OK - in fact the NORMAL way of testing is to plug in a "noid light" You are working with 12 volts. Typical "logic probes" are for use at TTL levels of +/- 5 volts On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 07:03:40 -0500, "Snag" wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: Ive just finished putting a low mileage 3.0 in my 2001 Ranger (225,000 miles). The current engine came out of a 2003, and has 75k miles on it. After ****ing around for a week, unable to start it, a friend changed the spark plug wires around (seems most of the online diagrams are WRONG) and it started right up. However..when adding throttle over about 1500 rmp..it starts to lope...vroom...vroom...vroom...vroom What the hell is it and how do I fix it? I stuck on the original intake manifold after drilling and taping holes (properly) to use the original intake. Im NOT getting a check engine light and my code reader is isnt showing any codes. Anyone have any ideas? Gunner Fuel filter or dirty injectors ? HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- |
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#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ford Ranger question
I'm 77 and used to do a lot of automotive electrical work but have
been out of it for a while. What is a "noid light"? I tried to look it up on Google but only could determine that it is some sort of fuel injector tester. How did it get it's name? What does it consist of? How is it different from a test light? Wondering minds want to know. Engineman On Sep 23, 7:41*pm, wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 17:44:20 -0700, JR North wrote: OK. Most ECMs pull the ground circuit low for activation. The injector power is usually through an external resistor block, or provided by the ECM. MOST systems today do away with the resistor block and feed the injectors "raw" 12 volt power - and ground the injector througha "peak and hold" driver, which provides a full power spike to open the injector, then clamps the current to a safe level, adequate only to HOLD the injector open.With a noid, you have to disconnect the connector, and plug in the noid. *If, for instance, the driver for the injector circuit is bad, there is an open or short in the circuit wiring, or there is a problem with the power side, the noid won't flash. * So the FIRST check is, is there power to the injection harness? Easily proved with a test light or voltmeter Of course, it will flash if the circuit is good. I wasn't aware I implied it wouldn't. But it does not provide any info on WHY it's not flashing. A probe can look at both sides of the circuit, while the injector is being pulsed. No disconnection, which is sometimes very difficult on some systems, and stresses the wiring to boot. *How are you probing? Back probe through the weathertight connector, or poking the wire?? The H LED stays lit, the L LED flashes as the driver pulls the circuit low. I have spotted damaged output drivers, for instance, on VW/Audi power stages that drive the coil packs. I Don't think my probe is specifically designed this way, but the intensity of the indicator LEDs will vary with the quality of the signal. A good low pull will light the L LED fully. The "noid" will give the same indication of power level. In IGNITION testing, there MAY be a case to be made for using the logic probe. Generally, however, i just pulse the coil manually - if it sparks well that way, and not with the ECU triggering it, you question the ECU. A leaky driver will show a dimmer LED. MUCH info here. But I agree if you want the whole story, you need a DSO. JR dweller *in the cellar On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:20:29 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:00:59 -0700, JR North wrote: A noid will tell you if the ECM is pulling the circuit low, but does not tell you, if it doesn't flash, why. Also, noid's resistance and current draw are valued to be compatable with CMOS output circuit drivers. Regular test lights are not. And the outputs of the ECU are hardly what you would call "cmos level" - nor are the noids anything special power-wize. A good probe does CMOS also, and very useful for checking both H and L circuits. Also, req for most CMOS and TTL level electronic automotive circuits. Incandesent test lights *may* have very high current draw, and damage output drivers. Why take a chance. JR Dweller in the cellar A test light draws less than an injector - guaranteed - and the driver is, in most cars today, a "peak and hold" driver that regulates the current to the low resistance injector. And the Noid light WILL flash if the injector circuit is firing. The drivers are generally not "tri-state" so they are either on or off, so a logic probe won't tell you anything a "noid light" can't. *Unless you can explain it to me - I've been working with EFI for years. Yes - you CAN use a logic probe - but I don't understand what you think it can tell me that the "noid" cannot. It definitely can't tell me if the peak and hold is functioning. Pretty well need a scope for that - and a storage scope would make the job a lot easier. On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 23:31:41 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 19:22:46 -0700, JR North wrote: Throttle body switches are off line. The ECM thinks the throttle is closed, so goes into decel fuel cut as the rpm passes the ck point. Test this theory by checking an injector with a logic probe ( not a test light). JR Dweller in the cellar When checking the INJECTORS, a test light is OK - in fact the NORMAL way of testing is to plug in a "noid light" *You are working with 12 volts. Typical "logic probes" are for use at TTL levels of +/- 5 volts On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 07:03:40 -0500, "Snag" wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: Ive just finished putting a low mileage 3.0 in my 2001 Ranger (225,000 miles). *The current engine came out of a 2003, and has 75k miles on it. After ****ing around for a week, unable to start it, a friend changed the spark plug wires around (seems most of the online diagrams are WRONG) and it started right up. *However..when adding throttle over about 1500 rmp..it starts to lope...vroom...vroom...vroom...vroom What the hell is it and how do I fix it? I stuck on the original intake manifold after drilling and taping holes (properly) to use the original intake. Im NOT getting a check engine light and my code reader is isnt showing any codes. Anyone have any ideas? Gunner *Fuel filter or dirty injectors ? HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- |
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#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Ford Ranger question
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:26:00 -0700 (PDT), engineman
wrote: I'm 77 and used to do a lot of automotive electrical work but have been out of it for a while. What is a "noid light"? It is a test light used for checking EFI. They come in a set - one for each cyl (usually come in sets of 8( I tried to look it up on Google but only could determine that it is some sort of fuel injector tester. How did it get it's name? Short for "solenoid" What does it consist of? It is a bulb in a plastic lump that plugs into the injector plug. How is it different from a test light? Just in the format. Wondering minds want to know. Engineman On Sep 23, 7:41Â*pm, wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 17:44:20 -0700, JR North wrote: OK. Most ECMs pull the ground circuit low for activation. The injector power is usually through an external resistor block, or provided by the ECM. MOST systems today do away with the resistor block and feed the injectors "raw" 12 volt power - and ground the injector througha "peak and hold" driver, which provides a full power spike to open the injector, then clamps the current to a safe level, adequate only to HOLD the injector open.With a noid, you have to disconnect the connector, and plug in the noid. Â*If, for instance, the driver for the injector circuit is bad, there is an open or short in the circuit wiring, or there is a problem with the power side, the noid won't flash. Â* So the FIRST check is, is there power to the injection harness? Easily proved with a test light or voltmeter Of course, it will flash if the circuit is good. I wasn't aware I implied it wouldn't. But it does not provide any info on WHY it's not flashing. A probe can look at both sides of the circuit, while the injector is being pulsed. No disconnection, which is sometimes very difficult on some systems, and stresses the wiring to boot. Â*How are you probing? Back probe through the weathertight connector, or poking the wire?? The H LED stays lit, the L LED flashes as the driver pulls the circuit low. I have spotted damaged output drivers, for instance, on VW/Audi power stages that drive the coil packs. I Don't think my probe is specifically designed this way, but the intensity of the indicator LEDs will vary with the quality of the signal. A good low pull will light the L LED fully. The "noid" will give the same indication of power level. In IGNITION testing, there MAY be a case to be made for using the logic probe. Generally, however, i just pulse the coil manually - if it sparks well that way, and not with the ECU triggering it, you question the ECU. A leaky driver will show a dimmer LED. MUCH info here. But I agree if you want the whole story, you need a DSO. JR dweller Â*in the cellar On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 15:20:29 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:00:59 -0700, JR North wrote: A noid will tell you if the ECM is pulling the circuit low, but does not tell you, if it doesn't flash, why. Also, noid's resistance and current draw are valued to be compatable with CMOS output circuit drivers. Regular test lights are not. And the outputs of the ECU are hardly what you would call "cmos level" - nor are the noids anything special power-wize. A good probe does CMOS also, and very useful for checking both H and L circuits. Also, req for most CMOS and TTL level electronic automotive circuits. Incandesent test lights *may* have very high current draw, and damage output drivers. Why take a chance. JR Dweller in the cellar A test light draws less than an injector - guaranteed - and the driver is, in most cars today, a "peak and hold" driver that regulates the current to the low resistance injector. And the Noid light WILL flash if the injector circuit is firing. The drivers are generally not "tri-state" so they are either on or off, so a logic probe won't tell you anything a "noid light" can't. Â*Unless you can explain it to me - I've been working with EFI for years. Yes - you CAN use a logic probe - but I don't understand what you think it can tell me that the "noid" cannot. It definitely can't tell me if the peak and hold is functioning. Pretty well need a scope for that - and a storage scope would make the job a lot easier. On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 23:31:41 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 19:22:46 -0700, JR North wrote: Throttle body switches are off line. The ECM thinks the throttle is closed, so goes into decel fuel cut as the rpm passes the ck point. Test this theory by checking an injector with a logic probe ( not a test light). JR Dweller in the cellar When checking the INJECTORS, a test light is OK - in fact the NORMAL way of testing is to plug in a "noid light" Â*You are working with 12 volts. Typical "logic probes" are for use at TTL levels of +/- 5 volts On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 07:03:40 -0500, "Snag" wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: Ive just finished putting a low mileage 3.0 in my 2001 Ranger (225,000 miles). Â*The current engine came out of a 2003, and has 75k miles on it. After ****ing around for a week, unable to start it, a friend changed the spark plug wires around (seems most of the online diagrams are WRONG) and it started right up. Â*However..when adding throttle over about 1500 rmp..it starts to lope...vroom...vroom...vroom...vroom What the hell is it and how do I fix it? I stuck on the original intake manifold after drilling and taping holes (properly) to use the original intake. Im NOT getting a check engine light and my code reader is isnt showing any codes. Anyone have any ideas? Gunner Â*Fuel filter or dirty injectors ? HOME PAGE: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth -------------------------------------------------- |
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