I am looking at a use for some spring-temper 304 stainless wire, .009"
dia. It comes round, but it would be better suited for this use if it
was square-section. Can I run it (cold) through a couple pairs of
rollers to form it into a square, without altering the other properties?

Alternately does anyone sell smaller quantities of such wire (~1-lb
spools). I see there is flattened wire (about a 2:1 height/width ratio)
but it appears to be once-rolled with the ends rounded from forming, and
I want a (roughly) square cross-section with fairly sharp edges.

"DougC" wrote in message
...
I am looking at a use for some spring-temper 304 stainless wire, .009" dia.
It comes round, but it would be better suited for this use if it was
square-section. Can I run it (cold) through a couple pairs of rollers to
form it into a square, without altering the other properties?

Alternately does anyone sell smaller quantities of such wire (~1-lb
spools). I see there is flattened wire (about a 2:1 height/width ratio)
but it appears to be once-rolled with the ends rounded from forming, and I
want a (roughly) square cross-section with fairly sharp edges.

If you deform metal, it will work-harden. So, no, you can not roll it
without changing properties.

There are places that make square wire, for example:
http://www.microdynetech.com/wire_shapes.htm
http://www.radcliffwire.com/default.asp

A lot of custom spring companies will make springs with square wire, perhaps
they will sell you small quanitites of such.

However, my experience as an engineer is that when you think you need
something really unusual, then you are either not clever enough or too
clever for your own good. There are very rare exceptions when working on
really cutting edge stuff. In other words try to find a way to make do with
round wire.

On 8/18/2011 1:15 AM, anorton wrote:


If you deform metal, it will work-harden. So, no, you can not roll it
without changing properties.


I may try to do this with some soft-temper wire I have around,,,, maybe
it will approach the spring-temper when done.

There are places that make square wire, for example:
http://www.microdynetech.com/wire_shapes.htm
http://www.radcliffwire.com/default.asp

A lot of custom spring companies will make springs with square wire,
perhaps they will sell you small quanitites of such.


Generally I've not had good experience with such queries.

However, my experience as an engineer is that when you think you need
something really unusual, then you are either not clever enough or too
clever for your own good. There are very rare exceptions when working on
really cutting edge stuff. In other words try to find a way to make do
with round wire.

If it wasn't for the unusual things, I wouldn't be doing anything at all....

Norton is sharing wisdom.. it shouldn't be too difficult to accept. Finding
an existing spring product would be your best option.

I worked in plant maintenance at a steel wire mill facility. Soft mild steel
wire (nails, large staples, MIG wire etc) is fairly difficult to resize
and/or reshape, highly technical and the machines are generally
sophisticated.
The flatteners I saw used numerous (dozens of pairs of) rollers just for one
dimension.

Shaping or sizing gold or silver jewelry wire is more along the lines of a
workbench setup.

Reshaping stainless alloys and high carbon steel would be many times more
difficult than mild steel.

--
WB
..........


"DougC" wrote in message
...
I am looking at a use for some spring-temper 304 stainless wire, .009" dia.
It comes round, but it would be better suited for this use if it was
square-section. Can I run it (cold) through a couple pairs of rollers to
form it into a square, without altering the other properties?

Alternately does anyone sell smaller quantities of such wire (~1-lb
spools). I see there is flattened wire (about a 2:1 height/width ratio)
but it appears to be once-rolled with the ends rounded from forming, and I
want a (roughly) square cross-section with fairly sharp edges.

"DougC" wrote in message
...
On 8/18/2011 1:15 AM, anorton wrote:


If you deform metal, it will work-harden. So, no, you can not roll it
without changing properties.


I may try to do this with some soft-temper wire I have around,,,, maybe it
will approach the spring-temper when done.

There are places that make square wire, for example:
http://www.microdynetech.com/wire_shapes.htm
http://www.radcliffwire.com/default.asp

A lot of custom spring companies will make springs with square wire,
perhaps they will sell you small quanitites of such.


Generally I've not had good experience with such queries.

However, my experience as an engineer is that when you think you need
something really unusual, then you are either not clever enough or too
clever for your own good. There are very rare exceptions when working on
really cutting edge stuff. In other words try to find a way to make do
with round wire.

If it wasn't for the unusual things, I wouldn't be doing anything at
all....


Another thought is to grind an oversize round wire to square. This may need
some special fixturing.

On 8/18/2011 8:10 AM, anorton wrote:

"DougC" wrote in message
...
On 8/18/2011 1:15 AM, anorton wrote:


If you deform metal, it will work-harden. So, no, you can not roll it
without changing properties.


I may try to do this with some soft-temper wire I have around,,,,
maybe it will approach the spring-temper when done.

There are places that make square wire, for example:
http://www.microdynetech.com/wire_shapes.htm
http://www.radcliffwire.com/default.asp

A lot of custom spring companies will make springs with square wire,
perhaps they will sell you small quanitites of such.


Generally I've not had good experience with such queries.

However, my experience as an engineer is that when you think you need
something really unusual, then you are either not clever enough or too
clever for your own good. There are very rare exceptions when working on
really cutting edge stuff. In other words try to find a way to make do
with round wire.

If it wasn't for the unusual things, I wouldn't be doing anything at
all....


Another thought is to grind an oversize round wire to square. This may
need some special fixturing.
does it need to be square over the whole length or just the ends, or can
the ends be round? perhaps you only need to adjust the ends if so.

On Aug 17, 10:02*pm, DougC wrote:
I am looking at a use for some spring-temper 304 stainless wire, .009"
dia. It comes round, but it would be better suited for this use if it
was square-section. Can I run it (cold) through a couple pairs of
rollers to form it into a square, without altering the other properties?

Alternately does anyone sell smaller quantities of such wire (~1-lb
spools). I see there is flattened wire (about a 2:1 height/width ratio)
but it appears to be once-rolled with the ends rounded from forming, and
I want a (roughly) square cross-section with fairly sharp edges.


Spring temper and 304 stainless steel is an oxymoron. One can't
harden 300 series SS with a heat treat. It will work harden but that
will change it’s magnetic properties..

If one needs corrosion resistance and non magnetic properties I
suggest looking at NiTinol. Buy a sheet then water jet cut strips.

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 00:02:57 -0500, DougC
wrote:

I am looking at a use for some spring-temper 304 stainless wire, .009"
dia. It comes round, but it would be better suited for this use if it
was square-section. Can I run it (cold) through a couple pairs of
rollers to form it into a square, without altering the other properties?

Alternately does anyone sell smaller quantities of such wire (~1-lb
spools). I see there is flattened wire (about a 2:1 height/width ratio)
but it appears to be once-rolled with the ends rounded from forming, and
I want a (roughly) square cross-section with fairly sharp edges.
I haven't seen 304 spring wire but have seen and used 302. And I know
the way 302 is made into a spring is just through drawing. So the soft
wire is work hardened. If you draw 304 wire through a die I imagine it
would work harden too, considering that you can apparently buy the
round stuff. Jewelry suppliers sell dies for round and oval wire
drawing but I have not seen any for square. .009 round wire and .008
square have virtually the same cross sectional area so maybe you could
set up some bearings (like you suggested above) but instead roll the
soft stuff into hard. Run it through several times to work it a lot.
Eric

wrote:
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 00:02:57 -0500, DougC
wrote:


I am looking at a use for some spring-temper 304 stainless wire, .009"
dia. It comes round, but it would be better suited for this use if it
was square-section. Can I run it (cold) through a couple pairs of
rollers to form it into a square, without altering the other properties?

Alternately does anyone sell smaller quantities of such wire (~1-lb
spools). I see there is flattened wire (about a 2:1 height/width ratio)
but it appears to be once-rolled with the ends rounded from forming, and
I want a (roughly) square cross-section with fairly sharp edges.

I haven't seen 304 spring wire but have seen and used 302. And I know
the way 302 is made into a spring is just through drawing. So the soft
wire is work hardened. If you draw 304 wire through a die I imagine it
would work harden too, considering that you can apparently buy the
round stuff. Jewelry suppliers sell dies for round and oval wire
drawing but I have not seen any for square. .009 round wire and .008
square have virtually the same cross sectional area so maybe you could
set up some bearings (like you suggested above) but instead roll the
soft stuff into hard. Run it through several times to work it a lot.
Eric

Drawplates for square wire are readily available in the UK so I would
expect them to be in the US also. The company I know that do various
shapes is
http://www.suttontools.co.uk/acatalo...enches_87.html

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:26:20 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 00:02:57 -0500, DougC
wrote:


I am looking at a use for some spring-temper 304 stainless wire, .009"
dia. It comes round, but it would be better suited for this use if it
was square-section. Can I run it (cold) through a couple pairs of
rollers to form it into a square, without altering the other properties?

Alternately does anyone sell smaller quantities of such wire (~1-lb
spools). I see there is flattened wire (about a 2:1 height/width ratio)
but it appears to be once-rolled with the ends rounded from forming, and
I want a (roughly) square cross-section with fairly sharp edges.

I haven't seen 304 spring wire but have seen and used 302. And I know
the way 302 is made into a spring is just through drawing. So the soft
wire is work hardened. If you draw 304 wire through a die I imagine it
would work harden too, considering that you can apparently buy the
round stuff. Jewelry suppliers sell dies for round and oval wire
drawing but I have not seen any for square. .009 round wire and .008
square have virtually the same cross sectional area so maybe you could
set up some bearings (like you suggested above) but instead roll the
soft stuff into hard. Run it through several times to work it a lot.
Eric

Drawplates for square wire are readily available in the UK so I would
expect them to be in the US also. The company I know that do various
shapes is
http://www.suttontools.co.uk/acatalo...enches_87.html
Thanks for the posted link Dave. The smallest square hole listed in .5
mm, and while that's too large for the original poster the drawplate
does have sizes I'm interested in for silver wire.
Eric

I have some 316 SS that was sold in a long roll. Cutting (tough)
off a length - the metal is full of spring.

Martin

On 8/18/2011 10:51 AM, toolbreaker wrote:
On Aug 17, 10:02 pm, wrote:
I am looking at a use for some spring-temper 304 stainless wire, .009"
dia. It comes round, but it would be better suited for this use if it
was square-section. Can I run it (cold) through a couple pairs of
rollers to form it into a square, without altering the other properties?

Alternately does anyone sell smaller quantities of such wire (~1-lb
spools). I see there is flattened wire (about a 2:1 height/width ratio)
but it appears to be once-rolled with the ends rounded from forming, and
I want a (roughly) square cross-section with fairly sharp edges.


Spring temper and 304 stainless steel is an oxymoron. One can't
harden 300 series SS with a heat treat. It will work harden but that
will change it’s magnetic properties..

If one needs corrosion resistance and non magnetic properties I
suggest looking at NiTinol. Buy a sheet then water jet cut strips.

"Martin Eastburn" wrote in message
...
I have some 316 SS that was sold in a long roll. Cutting (tough)
off a length - the metal is full of spring.

Martin

On 8/18/2011 10:51 AM, toolbreaker wrote:
On Aug 17, 10:02 pm, wrote:
I am looking at a use for some spring-temper 304 stainless wire, .009"
dia. It comes round, but it would be better suited for this use if it
was square-section. Can I run it (cold) through a couple pairs of
rollers to form it into a square, without altering the other properties?

From what I understand spring temper means its fully work hardened. However
roll forming would be a form of working so if you set up a roller that will
work for you to form it into square wire it will harden more if its not full
hard. I don't see why you couldn't do it with larger wire, but I am having
a hard time visualizing something that will work with such small wire.
Well, something I could setup in my shop anyway. Maybe a series of
alternating direction parallel roller pairs to draw the wire through. Each
pair only a few 1/10000 close together than the last pair. Plain cold rolled
steel might work for a little while if it’s a small job, but it will groove
from the wire pretty quickly if it’s a bigger project.

Not sure, maybe a harder stainless or even titanium for the rollers if its
to produce larger quantities of square wire?

Regardless I am pretty sure you will lengthen and reduce the gage of a wire
by using this particular process.

How long of pieces do you need? For short pieces you might be able to just
press them into a machined groove in a metal plate with another metal plate
using a hydraulic press. They are going to curl rather severely I think
when pulling them out of the groove, but I bet you could get square wire
(roughly depending on your math skills) this way too. One side will have
squarer corners than the other I suspect also. Or you may just wind up with
a plate with a nicely pressed in stainless strip. LOL.

_________ ________
|_|
________ _______
\ /
|_|


Try it and let us know how it works.

On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 09:31:59 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:
[...]
On Aug 17, 10:02 pm, wrote:
I am looking at a use for some spring-temper 304 stainless wire,
.009" dia. It comes round, but it would be better suited for this use
if it was square-section. Can I run it (cold) through a couple pairs
of rollers to form it into a square, without altering the other
properties?

From what I understand spring temper means its fully work hardened.
However roll forming would be a form of working so if you set up a
roller that will work for you to form it into square wire it will harden
more if its not full hard. I don't see why you couldn't do it with
larger wire, but I am having a hard time visualizing something that will
work with such small wire. Well, something I could setup in my shop
anyway. Maybe a series of alternating direction parallel roller pairs
to draw the wire through. Each pair only a few 1/10000 close together
than the last pair. Plain cold rolled steel might work for a little
while if its a small job, but it will groove from the wire pretty
quickly if its a bigger project.

Not sure, maybe a harder stainless or even titanium for the rollers if
its to produce larger quantities of square wire?

Round carbide inserts are readily available, eg see links at link
below for $5.50-each to $19-each inserts. Minor challenge: they have
7-degree tapered sides for clearance, ie, are like sections of a cone.
So, would need to reverse one of each pair of rollers so that angles
complement each other, and would need to tip the axles 7 degrees to
avoid twisting the wire as it passes between the rollers.
http://www.amazon.com/Sandvik-Coromant-Carbide-Uncoated-Thickness/dp/B0040QD6ZG

[...]

--
jiw

On 8/20/2011 11:31 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:


How long of pieces do you need?

I would need continuous lengths (thousands of feet) and the process
would need to be quick and easy. That's why I thought of the
bearing-rollers. -Which is not really "drawing", I suppose, but anyway.

I know it normally takes a lot of pressure to power-roll metal, but this
would be .01" wire, pretty tiny. A final square shape with sharp edges
would be wonderful, but I doubt I'd get that.

Somebody mentioned grinding,,,, and I discarded it initially but it
might be useful also. An equilateral triangle shaped-wire might work
even better, and there's no way to roll such a shape using common
bearings as rollers.

I'll have to get a bit of the soft-temper stuff later on and see if it
can be done. Nobody that I would buy small quantities from seems to make
the dies or sell square wire this tiny.