Does anyone here have to make square holes on a regular basis?


I need to make the 1/4" diameter holes in 1/16" thick stainless steel
and have come to the conclusion that the best way is probably with a
punch of some sort.(Hopefully a small and inexpensive one). But I
wanted to make sure that there wasn't a better way, and wanted to ask
if there was any kind of cutter that one can use with a
Rotabroach(Hougen model #10904) that would make these square
holes.(I'll probably have to make larger, deeper holes in the future).


I've read about some Watts Brothers bits that one can use in a drill
press(which I don't have yet) for this purpose, but even those appear
difficult to come by, and I wanted to entertain all of my options.


I've heard mention of Rotary Broaching to make square holes, but
nothing concerning using a Rotabroach for this. :-)


Any advice would be apprecaited.


Thanks a lot.


Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

You can get a square punch set (male, female) that are used in iron workers.
You then set them up in a inexpensive hydraulic press. You will need to make
alignment carefully so the male die comes through into the female or you
will bugger up the dies.

A square die set of that size should be available from most metal worker
supply dealer. I would guess, maybe 30 bucks or so but it would last a long
time, with care.


--
My experience and opinion, FWIW

Steve

You're gonna need a honking press and some serious dies to punch 1/16"
SS cleanly. Prolly should consider drilling a 1/4" hole at the location
and filing square.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

wrote:
Does anyone here have to make square holes on a regular basis?


I need to make the 1/4" diameter holes in 1/16" thick stainless steel
and have come to the conclusion that the best way is probably with a
punch of some sort.(Hopefully a small and inexpensive one). But I
wanted to make sure that there wasn't a better way, and wanted to ask
if there was any kind of cutter that one can use with a
Rotabroach(Hougen model #10904) that would make these square
holes.(I'll probably have to make larger, deeper holes in the future).


I've read about some Watts Brothers bits that one can use in a drill
press(which I don't have yet) for this purpose, but even those appear
difficult to come by, and I wanted to entertain all of my options.


I've heard mention of Rotary Broaching to make square holes, but
nothing concerning using a Rotabroach for this. :-)


Any advice would be apprecaited.


Thanks a lot.


Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.



--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

It doesn't seem like that would work well for material that may go over
an inch thick. And since I may need to make a lot of accurate 1/4"
holes in the 1/16" stainless for my present project, this would seem to
be very tedious.

But I guess that I have no choice and will have to go the drilling and
filing route for now, unless someone can recommend a small
punch/die/press combo that would make those 1/4" round holes square.
Anyone?

After that I'd just have to worry about getting more equipment for the
bigger, deeper holes in the future.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
************************************************** ************************************************** ****
JR North wrote:
You're gonna need a honking press and some serious dies to punch 1/16"
SS cleanly. Prolly should consider drilling a 1/4" hole at the location
and filing square.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

wrote:
Does anyone here have to make square holes on a regular basis?


I need to make the 1/4" diameter holes in 1/16" thick stainless steel
and have come to the conclusion that the best way is probably with a
punch of some sort.(Hopefully a small and inexpensive one). But I
wanted to make sure that there wasn't a better way, and wanted to ask
if there was any kind of cutter that one can use with a
Rotabroach(Hougen model #10904) that would make these square
holes.(I'll probably have to make larger, deeper holes in the future).


I've read about some Watts Brothers bits that one can use in a drill
press(which I don't have yet) for this purpose, but even those appear
difficult to come by, and I wanted to entertain all of my options.


I've heard mention of Rotary Broaching to make square holes, but
nothing concerning using a Rotabroach for this. :-)


Any advice would be apprecaited.


Thanks a lot.


Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.



--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

You have not said how far from an edge you are needing the holes.
These folks are among the best at punching holes:
http://roperwhitney.com/tech/tech2.cfm

look at their choices under punching. The cost goes up with
thickness, size of hole, and distance from edge.

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone here have to make square holes on a regular basis?


I need to make the 1/4" diameter holes in 1/16" thick stainless
steel
and have come to the conclusion that the best way is probably
with a
punch of some sort.(Hopefully a small and inexpensive one). But
I
wanted to make sure that there wasn't a better way, and wanted
to ask
if there was any kind of cutter that one can use with a
Rotabroach(Hougen model #10904) that would make these square
holes.(I'll probably have to make larger, deeper holes in the
future).


I've read about some Watts Brothers bits that one can use in a
drill
press(which I don't have yet) for this purpose, but even those
appear
difficult to come by, and I wanted to entertain all of my
options.


I've heard mention of Rotary Broaching to make square holes, but
nothing concerning using a Rotabroach for this. :-)


Any advice would be apprecaited.


Thanks a lot.


Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

DanG wrote:
You have not said how far from an edge you are needing the holes.
These folks are among the best at punching holes:
http://roperwhitney.com/tech/tech2.cfm

look at their choices under punching. The cost goes up with
thickness, size of hole, and distance from edge.

Nothing can be outsourced, and I'd need the tools and know-how for
future projects anyway.

These particular squared holes will be about 1/8" from the
edges(corners) of the stainless steel.

The square holes are necessary because I'm creating a hinge set-up
where I'll need put squared Delrin bushings with round holes through
them into the square holes created in the 1/16" thick stainless steel.
The holes need to be square so that only the rod that will go through
the bushing will turn and not the bushing itself.

BTW. Can anyone tell me if there were logistical reasons why square
hole bits were not made for a tool like the Rotabroach?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

then go to their site. They make tools so that you can do you own
punching, they would not do it for you if you wanted them to. I'm
sorry if I worded my first post poorly, I thought it was quite
clear that they manufacture tools. If you are close to the edge,
you can probably get by with their lightest weight tools.


(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




wrote in message
ps.com...
DanG wrote:
You have not said how far from an edge you are needing the
holes.
These folks are among the best at punching holes:
http://roperwhitney.com/tech/tech2.cfm

look at their choices under punching. The cost goes up with
thickness, size of hole, and distance from edge.

Nothing can be outsourced, and I'd need the tools and know-how
for
future projects anyway.

These particular squared holes will be about 1/8" from the
edges(corners) of the stainless steel.

The square holes are necessary because I'm creating a hinge
set-up
where I'll need put squared Delrin bushings with round holes
through
them into the square holes created in the 1/16" thick stainless
steel.
The holes need to be square so that only the rod that will go
through
the bushing will turn and not the bushing itself.

BTW. Can anyone tell me if there were logistical reasons why
square
hole bits were not made for a tool like the Rotabroach?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Darren,

Nothing can be outsourced, and I'd need the tools and know-how for
future projects anyway.

These particular squared holes will be about 1/8" from the
edges(corners) of the stainless steel.

The square holes are necessary because I'm creating a hinge set-up
where I'll need put squared Delrin bushings with round holes through
them into the square holes created in the 1/16" thick stainless steel.
The holes need to be square so that only the rod that will go through
the bushing will turn and not the bushing itself.

Dumb question: do the holes need to be square, or merely have flat
sides? If the corners could be rounded, you could mill windows using a
small-diameter endmill. Cutting SS will make it more fun than simply
milling a window w/o undercutting (which is a good challenge in itself),
but I suspect you could do it. If there is an SS-related problem I am
missing, others will correct the record.

I am a little confused about the rotation constraint. Is there only one
hinge on each plate? If so, it seems very likely to bind??? If there
are two or more, it should not be able to rotate even with round holes.

Sorry if I am completely missing your point, which seems likely

Bill

Darren,

Nothing can be outsourced, and I'd need the tools and know-how for
future projects anyway.

These particular squared holes will be about 1/8" from the
edges(corners) of the stainless steel.

The square holes are necessary because I'm creating a hinge set-up
where I'll need put squared Delrin bushings with round holes through
them into the square holes created in the 1/16" thick stainless steel.
The holes need to be square so that only the rod that will go through
the bushing will turn and not the bushing itself.


Dumb question: do the holes need to be square, or merely have flat
sides? If the corners could be rounded, you could mill windows using a
small-diameter endmill. Cutting SS will make it more fun than simply
milling a window w/o undercutting (which is a good challenge in itself),
but I suspect you could do it. If there is an SS-related problem I am
missing, others will correct the record.

I am a little confused about the rotation constraint. Is there only one
hinge on each plate? If so, it seems very likely to bind??? If there
are two or more, it should not be able to rotate even with round holes.

Funny how things make sense only after pusing the send button - it
sounds as though you are trying to get something to turn, and to hold
the bushing in place. If that's the case, then scratch the two-point
comment, but it seems that a window would work if you are willing to
round the corners of the bushings, or if you deliberately undercut the
corners to make room for the corners of the bushings. The bottom line
is that you might consider doing something simple with the SS that gives
you the same effect as a square hole in it.

Bill

Thanks. I e-mailed Roper Whitney in hopes of finding the smallest tool
I'll need to get done what I want. I just can't seem to find out if
they have square die/punches on their site.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
************************************************** ************************************************** ****
DanG wrote:
then go to their site. They make tools so that you can do you own
punching, they would not do it for you if you wanted them to. I'm
sorry if I worded my first post poorly, I thought it was quite
clear that they manufacture tools. If you are close to the edge,
you can probably get by with their lightest weight tools.


(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




wrote in message
ps.com...
DanG wrote:
You have not said how far from an edge you are needing the
holes.
These folks are among the best at punching holes:
http://roperwhitney.com/tech/tech2.cfm

look at their choices under punching. The cost goes up with
thickness, size of hole, and distance from edge.

Nothing can be outsourced, and I'd need the tools and know-how
for
future projects anyway.

These particular squared holes will be about 1/8" from the
edges(corners) of the stainless steel.

The square holes are necessary because I'm creating a hinge
set-up
where I'll need put squared Delrin bushings with round holes
through
them into the square holes created in the 1/16" thick stainless
steel.
The holes need to be square so that only the rod that will go
through
the bushing will turn and not the bushing itself.

BTW. Can anyone tell me if there were logistical reasons why
square
hole bits were not made for a tool like the Rotabroach?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Bill Schwab wrote:
Darren,

Nothing can be outsourced, and I'd need the tools and know-how for
future projects anyway.

These particular squared holes will be about 1/8" from the
edges(corners) of the stainless steel.

The square holes are necessary because I'm creating a hinge set-up
where I'll need put squared Delrin bushings with round holes through
them into the square holes created in the 1/16" thick stainless steel.
The holes need to be square so that only the rod that will go through
the bushing will turn and not the bushing itself.


Dumb question: do the holes need to be square, or merely have flat
sides? If the corners could be rounded, you could mill windows using a
small-diameter endmill. Cutting SS will make it more fun than simply
milling a window w/o undercutting (which is a good challenge in itself),
but I suspect you could do it. If there is an SS-related problem I am
missing, others will correct the record.

I am a little confused about the rotation constraint. Is there only one
hinge on each plate? If so, it seems very likely to bind??? If there
are two or more, it should not be able to rotate even with round holes.

Funny how things make sense only after pusing the send button - it
sounds as though you are trying to get something to turn, and to hold
the bushing in place. If that's the case, then scratch the two-point
comment, but it seems that a window would work if you are willing to
round the corners of the bushings, or if you deliberately undercut the
corners to make room for the corners of the bushings. The bottom line
is that you might consider doing something simple with the SS that gives
you the same effect as a square hole in it.

Here's a clarification.

Imagine a 4" X 4", 1/16" thick stainless steel plate layed flat with
four stainless steel rods sticking out from each corner.

To accomplish this, I'll have to cut a 1/16" slot in the end of the
rods so that each rod can slide over it's corner of the plate. Now
there will also have to be holes drilled down into each rod *and*
through the plate so I can drop a Delrin cylinder through each of them.

Concentrating on one corner, since the plate which is only 1/16" thick
will over a relatively short time cut into the Delrin cylinder because
of it's turning motion, I have to place a Delrin bushing in the plate
hole first, and the bushing has to be square so that it does not turn.
And if the bushing doesn't turn the plate will not cut into it.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

The first thing you need to know is how many tons of force you need to punch a
1/4" square hole in 1/16" stainless sheet. The second thing you need is the
smallest and cheapest tool which can yield that tonnage. I had a Whitney Jensen
Model 91 10-ton bench punch which would have worked perfectly for you, but I
suspect you may be able to get away with 5 tons, in which case you can use a No.
8 hand punch like http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7576272205
and you can order a 1/4" square punch/die set from a lot of people. If you get
lucky when you buy the punch, you may be able to solve your problem for under
$100. Punching is *always* the way to go for sheet metal.

By the way, when the time comes to actually punch, lay out the centers of your
holes, and carefully centerpunch them. Then after the part is all centerpunched,
put the part in the punching tool and feel with the tit on the tip of the punch
until it picks up your centerpunch mark, then keeping it firmly located in the
punchmark, punch the hole. That's how to put holes right where you want them.

GWE

wrote:

Bill Schwab wrote:

Darren,


Nothing can be outsourced, and I'd need the tools and know-how for
future projects anyway.

These particular squared holes will be about 1/8" from the
edges(corners) of the stainless steel.

The square holes are necessary because I'm creating a hinge set-up
where I'll need put squared Delrin bushings with round holes through
them into the square holes created in the 1/16" thick stainless steel.
The holes need to be square so that only the rod that will go through
the bushing will turn and not the bushing itself.


Dumb question: do the holes need to be square, or merely have flat
sides? If the corners could be rounded, you could mill windows using a
small-diameter endmill. Cutting SS will make it more fun than simply
milling a window w/o undercutting (which is a good challenge in itself),
but I suspect you could do it. If there is an SS-related problem I am
missing, others will correct the record.

I am a little confused about the rotation constraint. Is there only one
hinge on each plate? If so, it seems very likely to bind??? If there
are two or more, it should not be able to rotate even with round holes.

Funny how things make sense only after pusing the send button - it
sounds as though you are trying to get something to turn, and to hold
the bushing in place. If that's the case, then scratch the two-point
comment, but it seems that a window would work if you are willing to
round the corners of the bushings, or if you deliberately undercut the
corners to make room for the corners of the bushings. The bottom line
is that you might consider doing something simple with the SS that gives
you the same effect as a square hole in it.


Here's a clarification.

Imagine a 4" X 4", 1/16" thick stainless steel plate layed flat with
four stainless steel rods sticking out from each corner.

To accomplish this, I'll have to cut a 1/16" slot in the end of the
rods so that each rod can slide over it's corner of the plate. Now
there will also have to be holes drilled down into each rod *and*
through the plate so I can drop a Delrin cylinder through each of them.

Concentrating on one corner, since the plate which is only 1/16" thick
will over a relatively short time cut into the Delrin cylinder because
of it's turning motion, I have to place a Delrin bushing in the plate
hole first, and the bushing has to be square so that it does not turn.
And if the bushing doesn't turn the plate will not cut into it.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Grant Erwin wrote:
The first thing you need to know is how many tons of force you need to punch a
1/4" square hole in 1/16" stainless sheet. The second thing you need is the
smallest and cheapest tool which can yield that tonnage. I had a Whitney Jensen
Model 91 10-ton bench punch which would have worked perfectly for you, but I
suspect you may be able to get away with 5 tons, in which case you can use a No.
8 hand punch like http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7576272205
and you can order a 1/4" square punch/die set from a lot of people. If you get
lucky when you buy the punch, you may be able to solve your problem for under
$100. Punching is *always* the way to go for sheet metal.

By the way, when the time comes to actually punch, lay out the centers of your
holes, and carefully centerpunch them. Then after the part is all centerpunched,
put the part in the punching tool and feel with the tit on the tip of the punch
until it picks up your centerpunch mark, then keeping it firmly located in the
punchmark, punch the hole. That's how to put holes right where you want them.

Funny you should point to that Ebay auction. I had sent the seller an
e-mail asking for more info on that.

Can you tell me what a normal price is for one of those?

Thanks.

P.S: I'm still waiting for Hougen and Watts Brothers to get back to me
concerning bits that make square holes.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Go to any one of their pages under the "Punching" heading. Scroll
to the bottom of the page. There is a picture and sizes of the
punches that fit each particular punch. The very first page I
sent you told how to calculate the number of tons you would need
to accomplish your task.

http://roperwhitney.com/index.cfm

Put your mouse on the word PUNCHING in the black band under their
logo. Go to any one of their punches listed. Scroll to the
bottom of that page to see available punches and sizes.

Put your mouse on the words PUNCHES & DIES in the black band. Go
to the "determining tonnages" page.

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks. I e-mailed Roper Whitney in hopes of finding the
smallest tool
I'll need to get done what I want. I just can't seem to find out
if
they have square die/punches on their site.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
************************************************** ************************************************** ****
DanG wrote:
then go to their site. They make tools so that you can do you
own
punching, they would not do it for you if you wanted them to.
I'm
sorry if I worded my first post poorly, I thought it was quite
clear that they manufacture tools. If you are close to the
edge,
you can probably get by with their lightest weight tools.


(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




wrote in message
ps.com...
DanG wrote:
You have not said how far from an edge you are needing the
holes.
These folks are among the best at punching holes:
http://roperwhitney.com/tech/tech2.cfm

look at their choices under punching. The cost goes up with
thickness, size of hole, and distance from edge.

Nothing can be outsourced, and I'd need the tools and
know-how
for
future projects anyway.

These particular squared holes will be about 1/8" from the
edges(corners) of the stainless steel.

The square holes are necessary because I'm creating a hinge
set-up
where I'll need put squared Delrin bushings with round holes
through
them into the square holes created in the 1/16" thick
stainless
steel.
The holes need to be square so that only the rod that will go
through
the bushing will turn and not the bushing itself.

BTW. Can anyone tell me if there were logistical reasons why
square
hole bits were not made for a tool like the Rotabroach?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

DanG wrote:
Go to any one of their pages under the "Punching" heading. Scroll
to the bottom of the page. There is a picture and sizes of the
punches that fit each particular punch. The very first page I
sent you told how to calculate the number of tons you would need
to accomplish your task.

http://roperwhitney.com/index.cfm

Put your mouse on the word PUNCHING in the black band under their
logo. Go to any one of their punches listed. Scroll to the
bottom of that page to see available punches and sizes.

Put your mouse on the words PUNCHES & DIES in the black band. Go
to the "determining tonnages" page.

Thanks.

The problem with all that is that mild steel is assumed, and I can only
assume that the charts at the bottom of those pages are showing numbers
like "1/8 - 17/64" to mean thickness - hole size, even though this
isn't clear.

Also, can anyone tell me what gauge("Ga") is equal to 1/16"?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

DanG wrote:

Go to any one of their pages under the "Punching" heading. Scroll
to the bottom of the page. There is a picture and sizes of the
punches that fit each particular punch. The very first page I
sent you told how to calculate the number of tons you would need
to accomplish your task.

I didn't see anything on their site which showed punching force in tons for
stainless steel, only for mild steel.

GWE

Darren,

How about a square broach and arbor press? If you have some kinda of a press
in your shop, a broach will do it fast & inexpensive.

Tony

wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone here have to make square holes on a regular basis?


I need to make the 1/4" diameter holes in 1/16" thick stainless steel
and have come to the conclusion that the best way is probably with a
punch of some sort.(Hopefully a small and inexpensive one). But I
wanted to make sure that there wasn't a better way, and wanted to ask
if there was any kind of cutter that one can use with a
Rotabroach(Hougen model #10904) that would make these square
holes.(I'll probably have to make larger, deeper holes in the future).


I've read about some Watts Brothers bits that one can use in a drill
press(which I don't have yet) for this purpose, but even those appear
difficult to come by, and I wanted to entertain all of my options.


I've heard mention of Rotary Broaching to make square holes, but
nothing concerning using a Rotabroach for this. :-)


Any advice would be apprecaited.


Thanks a lot.


Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

These tables assume mild steel at 50kpsi. Add perhaps 30% for stainless.

A couple more things from your other posts: you will get edge effects
where the metal pulls in if you try to punch within about 1x to 2x metal
thickness of the edge. Your 1/8" from the edge on 1/16th material is
fine. Thicker will give you trouble.

Also: punching is pretty much limited to cases where the diameter is
greater than the thickness of the material. Get even close to that point
and the the edges are terrible as well as lousy punch life.

The way to do the deeper holes as well as the cheap route through your
early units is to drill suitable 1/4" holes, broach them using a medium
arbor press. Any tool and die house can make a simple piloted broach
that fits into a piloted base plate. You only have to do 1/4 of the cut
per pass if you want to do it manually.

wrote:

DanG wrote:

Go to any one of their pages under the "Punching" heading. Scroll
to the bottom of the page. There is a picture and sizes of the
punches that fit each particular punch. The very first page I
sent you told how to calculate the number of tons you would need
to accomplish your task.

http://roperwhitney.com/index.cfm

Put your mouse on the word PUNCHING in the black band under their
logo. Go to any one of their punches listed. Scroll to the
bottom of that page to see available punches and sizes.

Put your mouse on the words PUNCHES & DIES in the black band. Go
to the "determining tonnages" page.


Thanks.

The problem with all that is that mild steel is assumed, and I can only
assume that the charts at the bottom of those pages are showing numbers
like "1/8 - 17/64" to mean thickness - hole size, even though this
isn't clear.

Also, can anyone tell me what gauge("Ga") is equal to 1/16"?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

As for interpreting the size chart for the shapes: they make
square punches from 1/8"x1/8" through 9/16" x 9/16" for the No. 24
punch on this page:
http://roperwhitney.com/punching/2-13.cfm. Other punches do other
size ranges.



Please read the last line.

It is all right where I told you to look. Here is a quotation
from the page referenced (http://roperwhitney.com/tech/tech2.cfm)
:
For Irregular Shape Holes
For punching irregular shaped holes (square, rectangular, obround,
triangular, etc.) multiply the length of metal to be cut by the
multiplier given for a 1" length in chart #4.


Example: The shear length (or total distance around a 1" x 2"
rectangular hole) is 6". To punch such a hole in 20 gauge mild
steel multiply 6" x 1.01 (from chart #4) = 6.06 tons. For
stainless steel this would be 6 x 1.50 = 9.0 tons.

Please read the last line. They use a simple multiplier to
calculate tonnages for stainless steel.

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
DanG wrote:

Go to any one of their pages under the "Punching" heading.
Scroll to the bottom of the page. There is a picture and sizes
of the punches that fit each particular punch. The very first
page I sent you told how to calculate the number of tons you
would need to accomplish your task.

I didn't see anything on their site which showed punching force
in tons for stainless steel, only for mild steel.

GWE

If indeed your future needs will be through one inch thick material, might I
suggest broching.

For a one inch through broach of 1/4 square, I'd guess a pretty serious
hydraulic setup....which of course requires the correct sized hole to start
with. A 1/4 square broach is a pretty flimsy tool and breaks real easy.

Good luck!


wrote in message
oups.com...
It doesn't seem like that would work well for material that may go over
an inch thick. And since I may need to make a lot of accurate 1/4"
holes in the 1/16" stainless for my present project, this would seem to
be very tedious.

But I guess that I have no choice and will have to go the drilling and
filing route for now, unless someone can recommend a small
punch/die/press combo that would make those 1/4" round holes square.
Anyone?

After that I'd just have to worry about getting more equipment for the
bigger, deeper holes in the future.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
************************************************** ************************************************** ****
JR North wrote:
You're gonna need a honking press and some serious dies to punch 1/16"
SS cleanly. Prolly should consider drilling a 1/4" hole at the location
and filing square.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

wrote:
Does anyone here have to make square holes on a regular basis?


I need to make the 1/4" diameter holes in 1/16" thick stainless steel
and have come to the conclusion that the best way is probably with a
punch of some sort.(Hopefully a small and inexpensive one). But I
wanted to make sure that there wasn't a better way, and wanted to ask
if there was any kind of cutter that one can use with a
Rotabroach(Hougen model #10904) that would make these square
holes.(I'll probably have to make larger, deeper holes in the future).


I've read about some Watts Brothers bits that one can use in a drill
press(which I don't have yet) for this purpose, but even those appear
difficult to come by, and I wanted to entertain all of my options.


I've heard mention of Rotary Broaching to make square holes, but
nothing concerning using a Rotabroach for this. :-)


Any advice would be apprecaited.


Thanks a lot.


Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.



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wrote:

Does anyone here have to make square holes on a regular basis?

I need to make the 1/4" diameter holes in 1/16" thick stainless steel
and have come to the conclusion that the best way is probably with a
punch of some sort.(Hopefully a small and inexpensive one). But I
wanted to make sure that there wasn't a better way, and wanted to ask
if there was any kind of cutter that one can use with a
Rotabroach(Hougen model #10904) that would make these square
holes.(I'll probably have to make larger, deeper holes in the future).

I've read about some Watts Brothers bits that one can use in a drill
press(which I don't have yet) for this purpose, but even those appear
difficult to come by, and I wanted to entertain all of my options.

I've heard mention of Rotary Broaching to make square holes, but
nothing concerning using a Rotabroach for this. :-)

Any advice would be apprecaited.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I got a rotary turret punch that is in the way in my shop. The model is
a Weiderman RA-41P. It's rated at 15 tons and can punch a sheet 28x
40in.
The bad part is that it weighs 6000 lbs. Im about 1.45 hours away from
you in NE PA. right up rt 80. I got a bunch of punches to go with it,
not sure if i got a 1/4 in sq but they easy to make. The thing runs on
120/240 vac,single phase. I want $350.00 for it and will load it on your
flatbed, or if no-one wants it its going to the scrapyard for .06 per
pound. I have the manual for it.

I also got a 7 ton whitney jensen manual punch press that would do the
job for 300.00. The whitney jenson weighs about 250 lbs. estimated.

John

Grant Erwin wrote:

wrote:
.. I had intended to drill a 1/4"
diameter hole first and then square it with the punch.

I submit that this is a really bad idea. Unless you make up a punch that has a
1/4" guide pin, you'd never be able to locate your hole, so your holes would be
randomly located to some degree. Further, drilling stainless sheet is itself a
bitch which you do not need to do if you're going to punch it.

Properly set up, a punch makes very minimal distortion. If there were some, you
could always set the piece between blocks and tap on the top block with a hammer.

It seems some people are responding to this posting with the impression that you
may have to also put square 1/4" holes in stainless up to 1" thick. I hadn't
seen this, but if so, punching is out of the question for material that thick
and it would take a very large machine to do such even if you could find a punch
that wouldn't shatter. On the other hand, broaching doesn't make sense for sheet
metal. A small square hole in sheet metal? NO BRAINER - punch it and be done.

GWE

The best way to do it is to sub it out to a guy with a waterjet cutter.
Have him cut the sheets to size and cut the square holes. You then
don't have to handle the full sheets and the holes, as well as the cut
sheets will be within a couple of thou. We sub that type of cutting
out. That is the reason we are getting rid of the punch presses.
For .062 stainless 304 steel the cutting rate is about 120 inches a
minute.

John

Look into the Roper Whitney hand operated lever punch press. It'll do
the job and they don't cost that much.
Talk to my friend Mark Fullerton at Precision Graphic Systems in San
Diego
He has one of these and a ton of die sets

RoyJ wrote:
These tables assume mild steel at 50kpsi. Add perhaps 30% for stainless.

A couple more things from your other posts: you will get edge effects
where the metal pulls in if you try to punch within about 1x to 2x metal
thickness of the edge. Your 1/8" from the edge on 1/16th material is
fine. Thicker will give you trouble.

I just got off the phone with a guy in Fair Haven New Jersey who is
auctioning punch and die sets on eBay. And he told me that I'd still
get distortion, and that there is no way I can accomplish what I want
with one of the portable hand punch presses. But now that I come to
think of it, he may not of known that I had intended to drill a 1/4"
diameter hole first and then square it with the punch.

Also: punching is pretty much limited to cases where the diameter is
greater than the thickness of the material. Get even close to that point
and the the edges are terrible as well as lousy punch life.

That's good to know.

The way to do the deeper holes as well as the cheap route through your
early units is to drill suitable 1/4" holes, broach them using a medium
arbor press. Any tool and die house can make a simple piloted broach
that fits into a piloted base plate. You only have to do 1/4 of the cut
per pass if you want to do it manually.

So I guess going small(or cheap) is out of the question, huh?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York

daniel peterman wrote:
Look into the Roper Whitney hand operated lever punch press. It'll do
the job and they don't cost that much.
Talk to my friend Mark Fullerton at Precision Graphic Systems in San
Diego
He has one of these and a ton of die sets

Does he have a website?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Thanks.

It seems that some here are implying that a portable hand punch/press
wouldn't work for me. :-)

I'd be thinking about saving up for that, but I don't drive and I have
very little room. :-(

If they made wobble bits for Rotabroaches I'd be set, since I recently
won one on
eBay.(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7573625865)

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Someone here posted this link a while back for square hole drills. I
don't know if these people are still about in the UK I think. Maybe this
is what you are refering to about Hougen and Watts brothers.

wrote:

Grant Erwin wrote:

The first thing you need to know is how many tons of force you need to punch a
1/4" square hole in 1/16" stainless sheet. The second thing you need is the
smallest and cheapest tool which can yield that tonnage. I had a Whitney Jensen
Model 91 10-ton bench punch which would have worked perfectly for you, but I
suspect you may be able to get away with 5 tons, in which case you can use a No.
8 hand punch like http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7576272205
and you can order a 1/4" square punch/die set from a lot of people. If you get
lucky when you buy the punch, you may be able to solve your problem for under
$100. Punching is *always* the way to go for sheet metal.

By the way, when the time comes to actually punch, lay out the centers of your
holes, and carefully centerpunch them. Then after the part is all centerpunched,
put the part in the punching tool and feel with the tit on the tip of the punch
until it picks up your centerpunch mark, then keeping it firmly located in the
punchmark, punch the hole. That's how to put holes right where you want them.


Funny you should point to that Ebay auction. I had sent the seller an
e-mail asking for more info on that.

Can you tell me what a normal price is for one of those?

Thanks.

P.S: I'm still waiting for Hougen and Watts Brothers to get back to me
concerning bits that make square holes.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Someone here posted this link a while back for square hole drills. I
don't know if these people are still about in the UK I think. Maybe this
is what you are refering to about Hougen and Watts brothers.

http://www.integerspin.co.uk/polygon.htm



wrote:

Grant Erwin wrote:

The first thing you need to know is how many tons of force you need to punch a
1/4" square hole in 1/16" stainless sheet. The second thing you need is the
smallest and cheapest tool which can yield that tonnage. I had a Whitney Jensen
Model 91 10-ton bench punch which would have worked perfectly for you, but I
suspect you may be able to get away with 5 tons, in which case you can use a No.
8 hand punch like http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7576272205
and you can order a 1/4" square punch/die set from a lot of people. If you get
lucky when you buy the punch, you may be able to solve your problem for under
$100. Punching is *always* the way to go for sheet metal.

By the way, when the time comes to actually punch, lay out the centers of your
holes, and carefully centerpunch them. Then after the part is all centerpunched,
put the part in the punching tool and feel with the tit on the tip of the punch
until it picks up your centerpunch mark, then keeping it firmly located in the
punchmark, punch the hole. That's how to put holes right where you want them.


Funny you should point to that Ebay auction. I had sent the seller an
e-mail asking for more info on that.

Can you tell me what a normal price is for one of those?

Thanks.

P.S: I'm still waiting for Hougen and Watts Brothers to get back to me
concerning bits that make square holes.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

wrote:
Thanks.

It seems that some here are implying that a portable hand punch/press
wouldn't work for me. :-)


Its not a hand punch,

I'd be thinking about saving up for that, but I don't drive and I have
very little room. :-(

I could probably get someone to deliver it.


If they made wobble bits for Rotabroaches I'd be set, since I recently
won one on
eBay.(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7573625865)



Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

The Whitney Jensen press is a arm crank press with a throat of about 24
inches. It really isn't portable in that the thing weighs about 250
lbs. It sits on a stand which elevates it to a good working height.

The footprint of this press is about 1.5 feet by 3.5 feet and stands
about 4 feet high with the crank handle removed. The crank handle
inserts into a slott on the side of the press.


The formula for the tonnage you need to punch the part is :
(thickness of the metal, in inches) x (total length of the cut of
the punch in inches) x (the shear modulus of the metal you are punching)

stainless steel shear will run between 90,000 and 100,000 depending on
the alloy.

..062 thickness x (.25 x 4 sides) x 100,000 = 6200 lbs. or
about 3.1 tons.


IF you want a picture of it send me an email.

This is the exact same press as listed on the roper whitney site.
I guess they have upped the tonnage to 8 tons.

http://roperwhitney.com/punching/1-25.cfm

I have most of the die shoes and die adapters shown in this site.



John

wrote:
.. I had intended to drill a 1/4"
diameter hole first and then square it with the punch.

I submit that this is a really bad idea. Unless you make up a punch that has a
1/4" guide pin, you'd never be able to locate your hole, so your holes would be
randomly located to some degree. Further, drilling stainless sheet is itself a
bitch which you do not need to do if you're going to punch it.

Properly set up, a punch makes very minimal distortion. If there were some, you
could always set the piece between blocks and tap on the top block with a hammer.

It seems some people are responding to this posting with the impression that you
may have to also put square 1/4" holes in stainless up to 1" thick. I hadn't
seen this, but if so, punching is out of the question for material that thick
and it would take a very large machine to do such even if you could find a punch
that wouldn't shatter. On the other hand, broaching doesn't make sense for sheet
metal. A small square hole in sheet metal? NO BRAINER - punch it and be done.

GWE

Grant Erwin wrote:
wrote:
.. I had intended to drill a 1/4"
diameter hole first and then square it with the punch.

I submit that this is a really bad idea. Unless you make up a punch that has a
1/4" guide pin, you'd never be able to locate your hole, so your holes would be
randomly located to some degree. Further, drilling stainless sheet is itself a
bitch which you do not need to do if you're going to punch it.

I decided on stainless because of it's stiffness and resistance to
corrosion.(But if someone can recommend a better material that is not
expensive I'd appreciated it). :-)

As for guiding, through practice all I'd have to do is determine
exactly where two sides of of the punched hole will be so I can mark
accordingly so I know exactly where to put the edges, and I should have
no problem with positioning for accuracy.

Properly set up, a punch makes very minimal distortion. If there were some, you
could always set the piece between blocks and tap on the top block with a hammer.

You lost me on that one.

It seems some people are responding to this posting with the impression that you
may have to also put square 1/4" holes in stainless up to 1" thick. I hadn't
seen this, but if so, punching is out of the question for material that thick
and it would take a very large machine to do such even if you could find a punch
that wouldn't shatter. On the other hand, broaching doesn't make sense for sheet
metal. A small square hole in sheet metal? NO BRAINER - punch it and be done.

Of course punching is out of the question for stainless that is 1"
thick. That is why I was attempting to get more info on the wobble bit
that makes a square hole. But as for this particular project involving
1/16" thick stainless steel, punching is obviously the way to go.

P.S: That punch on eBay we were discussing has 5 tons of punching
power, but I am still considering John's offer. The problem is that his
is not portable. :-(

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Yes he does
it's gopgs.com