I have a continuing fantasy about owning a 32'-38' trawler. One of the
common problems in a vessel of a certain age and price range are leaking
diesel fuel tanks. The proper repair is to pull the engine (the tanks
are generally on either side of the engine, requiring getting the engine
out of the way), and replace the tanks. The cost of doing this
approaches the price of the boat. Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?

Kevin Gallimore

axolotl wrote:
I have a continuing fantasy about owning a 32'-38' trawler. One of the
common problems in a vessel of a certain age and price range are leaking
diesel fuel tanks. The proper repair is to pull the engine (the tanks
are generally on either side of the engine, requiring getting the engine
out of the way), and replace the tanks. The cost of doing this
approaches the price of the boat. Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?

Kevin Gallimore


Sure. Weld in repair panels OR CLEAN the interior of the tanks very well
and epoxy coat them inside. You can buy fuel liner epoxy at many marine
stores.

--
Steve W.

Glass or metal? The metal tanks are usually so cruddy and hoary with
slime they are impossible to clean sufficiently to epoxy coat inside.
The glass tanks fatigue and fail structurally-not repairable.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 14:42:20 -0500, axolotl
wrote:

I have a continuing fantasy about owning a 32'-38' trawler. One of the
common problems in a vessel of a certain age and price range are leaking
diesel fuel tanks. The proper repair is to pull the engine (the tanks
are generally on either side of the engine, requiring getting the engine
out of the way), and replace the tanks. The cost of doing this
approaches the price of the boat. Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?

Kevin Gallimore

On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 14:42:20 -0500, axolotl
wrote:

I have a continuing fantasy about owning a 32'-38' trawler. One of the
common problems in a vessel of a certain age and price range are leaking
diesel fuel tanks. The proper repair is to pull the engine (the tanks
are generally on either side of the engine, requiring getting the engine
out of the way), and replace the tanks. The cost of doing this
approaches the price of the boat. Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?

Kevin Gallimore
===========
Any chance you could install a bladder inside the tank, more
or less like a racing fuel cell? You would lose some
capacity, but the price may offset this loss.
http://store.interstateproducts.com/...FSVe7AodcV1_mA
http://www.musthane.com/brands/musts...FcPt7Qod7W19bA
http://www.business.com/directory/in...s/tank_liners/
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240602
and many more.

google on "fuel tank bladders" for 24.4k hits.

-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On 1/8/2011 4:34 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?


Sure. Weld in repair panels OR CLEAN the interior of the tanks very well
and epoxy coat them inside. You can buy fuel liner epoxy at many marine
stores.


Steve,

My concern would be access. In most of these installations, one could
not get to the bottom or back of the tank to weld it, and the tank
coatings I have found have directions to rotate the tank (like
"sloshing" an aircraft tank) to coat the interior. Are you aware of any
coatings that can be "painted" through an access port?

Thanks,

Kevin

On 1/8/2011 5:22 PM, JR North wrote:
Glass or metal? The metal tanks are usually so cruddy and hoary with
slime they are impossible to clean sufficiently to epoxy coat inside.

The tanks are typically steel. Most of the "trawler yachts"
of the 70s, 80s, and 90s are out of one or two yards in Taiwan using
different brand names. The construction methods (and hull molds) are
identical for most of them.
Any good methods of cleaning a diesel tank?

Thanks,
Kevin

On 2011-01-08, axolotl wrote:
I have a continuing fantasy about owning a 32'-38' trawler. One of the
common problems in a vessel of a certain age and price range are leaking
diesel fuel tanks. The proper repair is to pull the engine (the tanks
are generally on either side of the engine, requiring getting the engine
out of the way), and replace the tanks. The cost of doing this
approaches the price of the boat. Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?

Kevin Gallimore

I would try to do it right the first time, pull the engine, service
the engine, pull the tank, service or replace tank.

i

On 1/8/2011 5:36 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:

Any chance you could install a bladder inside the tank, more
or less like a racing fuel cell?

This would seem to be the best solution, but I have not found a form
factor that will work; saddle tanks on these vessels are usually
vertical, up against the hull.
It is such an elegant solution that I will keep looking.

thanks,

Kevin

On 1/9/2011 9:48 AM, Ignoramus26282 wrote:
Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?

Kevin Gallimore

I would try to do it right the first time, pull the engine, service
the engine, pull the tank, service or replace tank.


This is the right way to do it. The cost of doing it is upwards of seven
grand.
I am just looking at vessels. If there were a reliable method of fixing
a tank in situ for a grand, it might be the making or breaking of a
deal. Remember that a vessel of this size is probably not in your garage
where you can tinker with it after work. It sits in a boatyard that
charges money to have it sit there. Because it is away from home you
don't have the resources of your shop to bring to bear against the problem.

Thanks,

Kevin

On 2011-01-09, axolotl wrote:
On 1/9/2011 9:48 AM, Ignoramus26282 wrote:
Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?

Kevin Gallimore

I would try to do it right the first time, pull the engine, service
the engine, pull the tank, service or replace tank.


This is the right way to do it. The cost of doing it is upwards of
seven grand. I am just looking at vessels. If there were a reliable
method of fixing a tank in situ for a grand, it might be the making
or breaking of a deal. Remember that a vessel of this size is
probably not in your garage where you can tinker with it after
work. It sits in a boatyard that charges money to have it sit
there. Because it is away from home you don't have the resources of
your shop to bring to bear against the problem.

I did not think about that. I would think that having an old boat with
issues, facing repair costs like these, makes it uneconomical.

i

On 1/9/2011 11:16 AM, Ignoramus26282 wrote:
t the problem.

I did not think about that. I would think that having an old boat with
issues, facing repair costs like these, makes it uneconomical.

You are using too many words.

"having a..... boat .......uneconomical."

Kevin Gallimore

On 2011-01-09, axolotl wrote:
On 1/9/2011 11:16 AM, Ignoramus26282 wrote:
t the problem.

I did not think about that. I would think that having an old boat with
issues, facing repair costs like these, makes it uneconomical.

You are using too many words.

"having a..... boat .......uneconomical."


As a former boat owner, I agree with the saying: there are two happy
days in a boater's life. The day when he buys a boat, and the day when
he sells it.

i

On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 16:34:28 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote:

axolotl wrote:
I have a continuing fantasy about owning a 32'-38' trawler. One of the
common problems in a vessel of a certain age and price range are leaking
diesel fuel tanks. The proper repair is to pull the engine (the tanks
are generally on either side of the engine, requiring getting the engine
out of the way), and replace the tanks. The cost of doing this
approaches the price of the boat. Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?

Kevin Gallimore


Sure. Weld in repair panels OR CLEAN the interior of the tanks very well
and epoxy coat them inside. You can buy fuel liner epoxy at many marine
stores.
But you are NOT going to do either with the tank in place on a 36
foot trawler, I'll bet.

The tanks will need to come out, one way or the other, unless you put
in a bladder like is used in some race-cars and some aircraft tanks -
with the fuel take-off inserted from the top.

axolotl wrote:
On 1/8/2011 4:34 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?


Sure. Weld in repair panels OR CLEAN the interior of the tanks very well
and epoxy coat them inside. You can buy fuel liner epoxy at many marine
stores.


Steve,

My concern would be access. In most of these installations, one could
not get to the bottom or back of the tank to weld it, and the tank
coatings I have found have directions to rotate the tank (like
"sloshing" an aircraft tank) to coat the interior. Are you aware of any
coatings that can be "painted" through an access port?

Thanks,

Kevin

Most of the epoxy coatings can be thinned so you can spray them. Just
like spraying a two part paint. Just be 100% sure to clean the gun very
well before the pot life expires.

Depending on the size of the access port you might be able to get in
there with a chopper gun like the ones used to lay up the fiberglass on
boats. With that the resin would have the fibers to bind it and
reinforce the repair. All depends on how much access you have.

--
Steve W.

Steve W. wrote:
axolotl wrote:
On 1/8/2011 4:34 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?
Sure. Weld in repair panels OR CLEAN the interior of the tanks very well
and epoxy coat them inside. You can buy fuel liner epoxy at many marine
stores.

Steve,

My concern would be access. In most of these installations, one could
not get to the bottom or back of the tank to weld it, and the tank
coatings I have found have directions to rotate the tank (like
"sloshing" an aircraft tank) to coat the interior. Are you aware of any
coatings that can be "painted" through an access port?



Google Proseal



Thanks,

Kevin

Most of the epoxy coatings can be thinned so you can spray them. Just
like spraying a two part paint. Just be 100% sure to clean the gun very
well before the pot life expires.

Depending on the size of the access port you might be able to get in
there with a chopper gun like the ones used to lay up the fiberglass on
boats. With that the resin would have the fibers to bind it and
reinforce the repair. All depends on how much access you have.




Not really true that MOST epoxies can be thinned for spraying.
And those that can, thinning reduces their physical properties
proportionally.

Epoxy, in the cured state, is hard and brittle.
The thing that gives it strength and flexibility is the matrix
that it is used with.

By itself it's pretty useless for this kind of repair job.

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...

Steve W. wrote:
axolotl wrote:
On 1/8/2011 4:34 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?
Sure. Weld in repair panels OR CLEAN the interior of the tanks very well
and epoxy coat them inside. You can buy fuel liner epoxy at many marine
stores.

Steve,

My concern would be access. In most of these installations, one could
not get to the bottom or back of the tank to weld it, and the tank
coatings I have found have directions to rotate the tank (like
"sloshing" an aircraft tank) to coat the interior. Are you aware of any
coatings that can be "painted" through an access port?



Google Proseal



Thanks,

Kevin

Most of the epoxy coatings can be thinned so you can spray them. Just
like spraying a two part paint. Just be 100% sure to clean the gun very
well before the pot life expires.

Depending on the size of the access port you might be able to get in
there with a chopper gun like the ones used to lay up the fiberglass on
boats. With that the resin would have the fibers to bind it and
reinforce the repair. All depends on how much access you have.




Not really true that MOST epoxies can be thinned for spraying.
And those that can, thinning reduces their physical properties
proportionally.

Epoxy, in the cured state, is hard and brittle.
The thing that gives it strength and flexibility is the matrix
that it is used with.

By itself it's pretty useless for this kind of repair job.

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

Reply:
There was an epoxy for fixing gas tanks I used maybe 20 years ago. got it
at the autoparts store. A putty type you kneaded to mix.

Califbill wrote:

Not really true that MOST epoxies can be thinned for spraying.
And those that can, thinning reduces their physical properties
proportionally.

Epoxy, in the cured state, is hard and brittle.
The thing that gives it strength and flexibility is the matrix
that it is used with.

By itself it's pretty useless for this kind of repair job.


Reply:
There was an epoxy for fixing gas tanks I used maybe 20 years ago. got it at
the autoparts store. A putty type you kneaded to mix.



It's still a patch though, Bill.
100 miles off shore is not the same as pulling over on the side of the road.
And a few hundred gallons of fuel in the bilges pretty much ruins dinner.


--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

Ignoramus26282 wrote:
On 2011-01-09, axolotl wrote:
On 1/9/2011 9:48 AM, Ignoramus26282 wrote:
Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?

Kevin Gallimore

I would try to do it right the first time, pull the engine, service
the engine, pull the tank, service or replace tank.

This is the right way to do it. The cost of doing it is upwards of
seven grand. I am just looking at vessels. If there were a reliable
method of fixing a tank in situ for a grand, it might be the making
or breaking of a deal. Remember that a vessel of this size is
probably not in your garage where you can tinker with it after
work. It sits in a boatyard that charges money to have it sit
there. Because it is away from home you don't have the resources of
your shop to bring to bear against the problem.

I did not think about that. I would think that having an old boat with
issues, facing repair costs like these, makes it uneconomical.

Boat (b?t) n:
A hole in the water, lined with wood, fiberglass, or metal, into which
one pours money.

;-)
Rich

On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:54:03 -0600, Ignoramus26282
wrote:

On 2011-01-09, axolotl wrote:
On 1/9/2011 11:16 AM, Ignoramus26282 wrote:
t the problem.

I did not think about that. I would think that having an old boat with
issues, facing repair costs like these, makes it uneconomical.

You are using too many words.

"having a..... boat .......uneconomical."


As a former boat owner, I agree with the saying: there are two happy
days in a boater's life. The day when he buys a boat, and the day when
he sells it.

i

I enjoy sailboats. I currently own 3 of them. A very elderly Hobi 16, a
fun but very small Force 5 and an elderly Esenada 20.

The bigger they get..the more expensive they get to keep in good order.

Anything over 20' can be cost prohibitive for occasional sailors..and
for those who sail more often.


--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

On 01/09/2011 06:26 AM, axolotl wrote:
On 1/8/2011 4:34 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?


Sure. Weld in repair panels OR CLEAN the interior of the tanks very well
and epoxy coat them inside. You can buy fuel liner epoxy at many marine
stores.


Steve,

My concern would be access. In most of these installations, one could
not get to the bottom or back of the tank to weld it, and the tank
coatings I have found have directions to rotate the tank (like
"sloshing" an aircraft tank) to coat the interior. Are you aware of any
coatings that can be "painted" through an access port?

Put one hand on the bow of the boat, and another on the stern, so that
you are looking at the deck. Pick up the boat. Rotate your wrists
forward. Now rotate them back. Tip the bow up, then tip the bow down.
Repeat. This should get the coating thoroughly distributed on the tanks.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 09:49:19 -0500, axolotl
wrote:

On 1/8/2011 5:36 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:

Any chance you could install a bladder inside the tank, more
or less like a racing fuel cell?

This would seem to be the best solution, but I have not found a form
factor that will work; saddle tanks on these vessels are usually
vertical, up against the hull.
It is such an elegant solution that I will keep looking.

thanks,

Kevin

I've seen a bloke with a 36 ft. sloop that had a similar problem -
tanks leak; can't get to it. He removed the old tank by cutting it
into small enough pieces to remove and then fabricated a tank that was
small enough to get back into the hole and replaced them. He ended up
with rather small tanks and so added another tank which was in a
locker he said he didn't use.... which was probably a lie but he is
still using the boat.

Another solution was a Farr 42 ft. that had very small fuel tanks. The
boat was lying in Singapore and the plan was to take it back to
Australia. The Charter Captain wanted to make a non-stop voyage so
they bought bladder tanks and loaded them in one of the unused areas
and away they went.

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

Tim Wescott wrote:
On 01/09/2011 06:26 AM, axolotl wrote:
On 1/8/2011 4:34 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?

Sure. Weld in repair panels OR CLEAN the interior of the tanks very well
and epoxy coat them inside. You can buy fuel liner epoxy at many marine
stores.

My concern would be access. In most of these installations, one could
not get to the bottom or back of the tank to weld it, and the tank
coatings I have found have directions to rotate the tank (like
"sloshing" an aircraft tank) to coat the interior. Are you aware of any
coatings that can be "painted" through an access port?

Put one hand on the bow of the boat, and another on the stern, so that
you are looking at the deck. Pick up the boat. Rotate your wrists
forward. Now rotate them back. Tip the bow up, then tip the bow down.
Repeat. This should get the coating thoroughly distributed on the
tanks.

Or sail it through 12 foot surf. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On 01/10/2011 08:19 PM, Rich Grise wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On 01/09/2011 06:26 AM, axolotl wrote:
On 1/8/2011 4:34 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?

Sure. Weld in repair panels OR CLEAN the interior of the tanks very well
and epoxy coat them inside. You can buy fuel liner epoxy at many marine
stores.

My concern would be access. In most of these installations, one could
not get to the bottom or back of the tank to weld it, and the tank
coatings I have found have directions to rotate the tank (like
"sloshing" an aircraft tank) to coat the interior. Are you aware of any
coatings that can be "painted" through an access port?

Put one hand on the bow of the boat, and another on the stern, so that
you are looking at the deck. Pick up the boat. Rotate your wrists
forward. Now rotate them back. Tip the bow up, then tip the bow down.
Repeat. This should get the coating thoroughly distributed on the
tanks.

Or sail it through 12 foot surf. ;-)

Twice, once for each tank.

That sounds much more practical.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:19:24 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On 01/10/2011 08:19 PM, Rich Grise wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On 01/09/2011 06:26 AM, axolotl wrote:
On 1/8/2011 4:34 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?

Sure. Weld in repair panels OR CLEAN the interior of the tanks very well
and epoxy coat them inside. You can buy fuel liner epoxy at many marine
stores.

My concern would be access. In most of these installations, one could
not get to the bottom or back of the tank to weld it, and the tank
coatings I have found have directions to rotate the tank (like
"sloshing" an aircraft tank) to coat the interior. Are you aware of any
coatings that can be "painted" through an access port?

Put one hand on the bow of the boat, and another on the stern, so that
you are looking at the deck. Pick up the boat. Rotate your wrists
forward. Now rotate them back. Tip the bow up, then tip the bow down.
Repeat. This should get the coating thoroughly distributed on the
tanks.

Or sail it through 12 foot surf. ;-)

Twice, once for each tank.

Don't forget to remove the mast and run it parallel with the 12' surf
so it coats the tops of the tanks, too. Toobin'!


That sounds much more practical.

Do it reeeealy?

--
You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will
preserve for our children this, the last best hope
of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take
the last step into a thousand years of darkness.?
-- Ronald Reagan

On 01/11/2011 07:20 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:19:24 -0800, Tim
wrote:

On 01/10/2011 08:19 PM, Rich Grise wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On 01/09/2011 06:26 AM, axolotl wrote:
On 1/8/2011 4:34 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Is anyone aware of a reliable method
of tank repair in place?

Sure. Weld in repair panels OR CLEAN the interior of the tanks very well
and epoxy coat them inside. You can buy fuel liner epoxy at many marine
stores.

My concern would be access. In most of these installations, one could
not get to the bottom or back of the tank to weld it, and the tank
coatings I have found have directions to rotate the tank (like
"sloshing" an aircraft tank) to coat the interior. Are you aware of any
coatings that can be "painted" through an access port?

Put one hand on the bow of the boat, and another on the stern, so that
you are looking at the deck. Pick up the boat. Rotate your wrists
forward. Now rotate them back. Tip the bow up, then tip the bow down.
Repeat. This should get the coating thoroughly distributed on the
tanks.

Or sail it through 12 foot surf. ;-)

Twice, once for each tank.

Don't forget to remove the mast and run it parallel with the 12' surf
so it coats the tops of the tanks, too. Toobin'!


That sounds much more practical.

Do it reeeealy?

Nay sayer!

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html