If anyone here is interested...

After a fair amount of discussion and advice from the crew here at
RCM, I got my plastic Jeep fuel tank fixed.

After removing the tank, and clearing it of nasty flamable vapors
(several fill/dump/repeat cycles with water over several days and a
several week bake in the hot sun, openings up, of course) and much
pondering, I decided I had nothing to loose, as the tank was no good
anyhow. So I did a quick test with a junk screwdriver. I heated the
blade up with a small torch and touched the hot metal to a little nub
sticking out of the top of the tank. The plastic melted and I found
that I could reshape it, and it rehardened when it cooled. Neat-O,
thermoplastic!

So I applied the hot blade treatment to the 2 small cuts in the tank,
melting the stuff as deeply as I dared without softening it all of the
way through, and sort of smoothed over the damage and fused it until
it looked closed up. Did not come out too badly. Beacuse of the way
this tank sits in the vehicle, and the way the skid plates and whatnot
go in, it is a hugh pain-in-the-neck to install and remove. So I went
the extra mile and tried to seal it with some sort of adhesive. JB
weld did not adhere to the plastic very well, and the locktite fuel
tank repair stuff the someone suggested specifically says not for
plastic tanks. So I tried one of the first suggestions I got from you
guys and tried SEAL-All. This stuff worked great! it hardened to a
nice skin that I built up in several layers, and I spread over maybe
twice the area of the original patch, just for good measure. The
solvent in it seemed to partially disolve the plastic of the tank, so
the stuff fused nicely to the surface. I did "bench testing" on the
repair for a few days while we did some other work to the truck, then
put it in.

Been in the truck a couple of weeks now, and seems to be a solid
repair.

Thanks for all of the ideas and help. It can be done! Another small
victory for the cheapskates.

Thanks all!
-AL

Hello, all,

I made my own fuel pump for my lawn tractor. (Long story,
1968 Wisconsin one-cyl engine, carb vibrated to bits,
poor fuel feed when on hills, etc. So, I put a Kei Hin
carb off a Honda 450 motorcycle engine on it, and it runs
great, but needs a head of fuel above carb.) So, I made
a little pump out of a floppy drive motor, eccentric,
rubber diaphragm, and valves made out of ball bearings,
springs and standard flare fittings.

This all works great, but the diaphragms keep wearing out.
I started with some .060" Neoprene sheet that works well,
but lasts only 3 years or so. When it fails, it starts
spraying gasoline all over the place, which is NOT a good
idea! I bought some material specifically sold as "a diphragm
material for fuel pumps, etc." from MSC. It has nylon or
similar webbing in it. It is too stiff, but mostly works,
but it only lasts about ONE YEAR! What happens is the
"rubber" ,material swells up and disintegrates after long
exposure to fuel. The fuel pump diphragm in my 1989 Toyota
is the original factory piece, and is still working, after a
LOT more time and 137,000 miles. Does anyone know where to
get this kind of material, used in auto fuel pumps? I need
something that is pretty soft, as the motor doesn't have much
power, and that will last a long time, as I'm tired of rebuilding
this thing. Also, letting it run until failure is going to
involve me in a big fireball on of these days, and I want to
avoid that!

Hmm, maybe I already know the answer, JC Whitney?

Thanks in advance for all suggestions!

Jon

Al A. wrote in article
...
If anyone here is interested...

After a fair amount of discussion and advice from the crew here at
RCM, I got my plastic Jeep fuel tank fixed.

After removing the tank, and clearing it of nasty flamable vapors
(several fill/dump/repeat cycles with water over several days and a
several week bake in the hot sun, openings up, of course) and much
pondering, I decided I had nothing to loose, as the tank was no good
anyhow. So I did a quick test with a junk screwdriver. I heated the
blade up with a small torch and touched the hot metal to a little nub
sticking out of the top of the tank. The plastic melted and I found
that I could reshape it, and it rehardened when it cooled. Neat-O,
thermoplastic!

So I applied the hot blade treatment to the 2 small cuts in the tank,
melting the stuff as deeply as I dared without softening it all of the
way through, and sort of smoothed over the damage and fused it until
it looked closed up. Did not come out too badly. Beacuse of the way
this tank sits in the vehicle, and the way the skid plates and whatnot
go in, it is a hugh pain-in-the-neck to install and remove. So I went
the extra mile and tried to seal it with some sort of adhesive. JB
weld did not adhere to the plastic very well, and the locktite fuel
tank repair stuff the someone suggested specifically says not for
plastic tanks. So I tried one of the first suggestions I got from you
guys and tried SEAL-All. This stuff worked great! it hardened to a
nice skin that I built up in several layers, and I spread over maybe
twice the area of the original patch, just for good measure. The
solvent in it seemed to partially disolve the plastic of the tank, so
the stuff fused nicely to the surface. I did "bench testing" on the
repair for a few days while we did some other work to the truck, then
put it in.

Been in the truck a couple of weeks now, and seems to be a solid
repair.

Thanks for all of the ideas and help. It can be done! Another small
victory for the cheapskates.

Thanks all!
-AL



There is a two-part Devcon product called "Plastic Weld" that I used to
sell to snowmobilers specifically to repair the ABS plastic noses.

It is, in a manner of speaking, an epoxy that actually works on plastics.

Bob Paulin - R.A.C.E.
Race Car Chassis Analysis & Setup Services

Jon Elson wrote:
Hello, all,

I made my own fuel pump for my lawn tractor.
SNIP
Thanks in advance for all suggestions!

Jon

Jon,

That's really the hard way! Why not just get a small Mikunu diaphram
pumper and tap into the intake vacumn to pulse it? For the easiest
plumming, use a tee connector to feed excess flow back to the tank
and leave the carb "as is". If your into hi-G manouvers with your
tractor, modify the carb as in shifter kart race carbs...take out the
float & needle asm, use two pumps, one in, one out, and stuff the float
chamber with fuel cell foam to damp the sloshing. Out fuel pickup is
inserted into float chamber with the open end of the tube at the same
level the fuel sits at with a working float/needle. Works really slick,
but is hardly needed for ordinary purposes.
--
Bill

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:13:41 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

Hello, all,

I made my own fuel pump for my lawn tractor. (Long story,
1968 Wisconsin one-cyl engine, carb vibrated to bits,
poor fuel feed when on hills, etc. So, I put a Kei Hin
carb off a Honda 450 motorcycle engine on it, and it runs
great, but needs a head of fuel above carb.) So, I made
a little pump out of a floppy drive motor, eccentric,
rubber diaphragm, and valves made out of ball bearings,
springs and standard flare fittings.

Why not just fit a standard electric fuel pump?

--
The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better, so I installed RedHat.

"Al A." wrote in message
...
If anyone here is interested...

After a fair amount of discussion and advice from the crew here at
RCM, I got my plastic Jeep fuel tank fixed.

After removing the tank, and clearing it of nasty flamable vapors
(several fill/dump/repeat cycles with water over several days and a
several week bake in the hot sun, openings up, of course) and much
pondering, I decided I had nothing to loose, as the tank was no good
anyhow. So I did a quick test with a junk screwdriver. I heated the
blade up with a small torch and touched the hot metal to a little nub
sticking out of the top of the tank. The plastic melted and I found
that I could reshape it, and it rehardened when it cooled. Neat-O,
thermoplastic!

So I applied the hot blade treatment to the 2 small cuts in the tank,
melting the stuff as deeply as I dared without softening it all of the
way through, and sort of smoothed over the damage and fused it until
it looked closed up. Did not come out too badly. Beacuse of the way
this tank sits in the vehicle, and the way the skid plates and whatnot
go in, it is a hugh pain-in-the-neck to install and remove. So I went
the extra mile and tried to seal it with some sort of adhesive. JB
weld did not adhere to the plastic very well, and the locktite fuel
tank repair stuff the someone suggested specifically says not for
plastic tanks. So I tried one of the first suggestions I got from you
guys and tried SEAL-All. This stuff worked great! it hardened to a
nice skin that I built up in several layers, and I spread over maybe
twice the area of the original patch, just for good measure. The
solvent in it seemed to partially disolve the plastic of the tank, so
the stuff fused nicely to the surface. I did "bench testing" on the
repair for a few days while we did some other work to the truck, then
put it in.

Been in the truck a couple of weeks now, and seems to be a solid
repair.

Thanks for all of the ideas and help. It can be done! Another small
victory for the cheapskates.

Thanks all!
-AL


Yup, I'm not surprised at all. That stuff is great!

Lane

Al A. wrote in message . ..
If anyone here is interested...

After a fair amount of discussion and advice from the crew here at
RCM, I got my plastic Jeep fuel tank fixed.

After removing the tank, and clearing it of nasty flamable vapors
(several fill/dump/repeat cycles with water over several days and a
several week bake in the hot sun, openings up, of course) and much
pondering, I decided I had nothing to loose, as the tank was no good
anyhow. So I did a quick test with a junk screwdriver. I heated the
blade up with a small torch and touched the hot metal to a little nub
sticking out of the top of the tank. The plastic melted and I found
that I could reshape it, and it rehardened when it cooled. Neat-O,
thermoplastic!

So I applied the hot blade treatment to the 2 small cuts in the tank,
melting the stuff as deeply as I dared without softening it all of the
way through, and sort of smoothed over the damage and fused it until
it looked closed up. Did not come out too badly. Beacuse of the way
this tank sits in the vehicle, and the way the skid plates and whatnot
go in, it is a hugh pain-in-the-neck to install and remove. So I went
the extra mile and tried to seal it with some sort of adhesive. JB
weld did not adhere to the plastic very well, and the locktite fuel
tank repair stuff the someone suggested specifically says not for
plastic tanks. So I tried one of the first suggestions I got from you
guys and tried SEAL-All. This stuff worked great! it hardened to a
nice skin that I built up in several layers, and I spread over maybe
twice the area of the original patch, just for good measure. The
solvent in it seemed to partially disolve the plastic of the tank, so
the stuff fused nicely to the surface. I did "bench testing" on the
repair for a few days while we did some other work to the truck, then
put it in.

Been in the truck a couple of weeks now, and seems to be a solid
repair.

Thanks for all of the ideas and help. It can be done! Another small
victory for the cheapskates.

Thanks all!
-AL

Told you a hot blade was the way to do it. Plastic moulding is my business.
Mark K.

Sounds like you are having problems with alcohol in the fuel disintegrating
your elastomers. Think methanol/ethanol friendly and it may help.

If anyone here is interested...

After a fair amount of discussion and advice from the crew here at
RCM, I got my plastic Jeep fuel tank fixed.

After removing the tank, and clearing it of nasty flamable vapors
(several fill/dump/repeat cycles with water over several days and a
several week bake in the hot sun, openings up, of course) and much
pondering, I decided I had nothing to loose, as the tank was no good
anyhow. So I did a quick test with a junk screwdriver. I heated the
blade up with a small torch and touched the hot metal to a little nub
sticking out of the top of the tank. The plastic melted and I found
that I could reshape it, and it rehardened when it cooled. Neat-O,
thermoplastic!

So I applied the hot blade treatment to the 2 small cuts in the tank,
melting the stuff as deeply as I dared without softening it all of the
way through, and sort of smoothed over the damage and fused it until
it looked closed up. Did not come out too badly. Beacuse of the way
this tank sits in the vehicle, and the way the skid plates and whatnot
go in, it is a hugh pain-in-the-neck to install and remove. So I went
the extra mile and tried to seal it with some sort of adhesive. JB
weld did not adhere to the plastic very well, and the locktite fuel
tank repair stuff the someone suggested specifically says not for
plastic tanks. So I tried one of the first suggestions I got from you
guys and tried SEAL-All. This stuff worked great! it hardened to a
nice skin that I built up in several layers, and I spread over maybe
twice the area of the original patch, just for good measure. The
solvent in it seemed to partially disolve the plastic of the tank, so
the stuff fused nicely to the surface. I did "bench testing" on the
repair for a few days while we did some other work to the truck, then
put it in.

Been in the truck a couple of weeks now, and seems to be a solid
repair.

Thanks for all of the ideas and help. It can be done! Another small
victory for the cheapskates.

Thanks all!
-AL

Gotta be about the best possible place to get info, help, advice, and
knowledge is right here on RCM. There seems to be no limit to the
talents and abilities of this group. Between the posters here and all
the help they provide, and the dropbox which is a HUGE perk for this
group, I give a hearty THANK YOU and it's probably the only reason I
even stay connected to the internet.
Ken.

McMaster Carr sells buna rubber coated material. I thought about
using it to fix an acetylene regulator but ended up making a diaphram
out of .010 stainless that I had on hand. The diaphram worked well,
but the regulator had other problems.

Dan


Jon Elson wrote in message ...

Does anyone know where to
get this kind of material, used in auto fuel pumps? I need
something that is pretty soft, as the motor doesn't have much
power, and that will last a long time, as I'm tired of rebuilding
this thing. Also, letting it run until failure is going to
involve me in a big fireball on of these days, and I want to
avoid that!


Thanks in advance for all suggestions!

Jon

The diaphragm from the Toyota was probably made from a material called
Viton. It is very rubber-like. It smells like cinnamon when it cut or
abraded.
Mike H


"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Hello, all,

I made my own fuel pump for my lawn tractor. (Long story,
1968 Wisconsin one-cyl engine, carb vibrated to bits,
poor fuel feed when on hills, etc. So, I put a Kei Hin
carb off a Honda 450 motorcycle engine on it, and it runs
great, but needs a head of fuel above carb.) So, I made
a little pump out of a floppy drive motor, eccentric,
rubber diaphragm, and valves made out of ball bearings,
springs and standard flare fittings.

This all works great, but the diaphragms keep wearing out.
I started with some .060" Neoprene sheet that works well,
but lasts only 3 years or so. When it fails, it starts
spraying gasoline all over the place, which is NOT a good
idea! I bought some material specifically sold as "a diphragm
material for fuel pumps, etc." from MSC. It has nylon or
similar webbing in it. It is too stiff, but mostly works,
but it only lasts about ONE YEAR! What happens is the
"rubber" ,material swells up and disintegrates after long
exposure to fuel. The fuel pump diphragm in my 1989 Toyota
is the original factory piece, and is still working, after a
LOT more time and 137,000 miles. Does anyone know where to
get this kind of material, used in auto fuel pumps? I need
something that is pretty soft, as the motor doesn't have much
power, and that will last a long time, as I'm tired of rebuilding
this thing. Also, letting it run until failure is going to
involve me in a big fireball on of these days, and I want to
avoid that!

Hmm, maybe I already know the answer, JC Whitney?

Thanks in advance for all suggestions!

Jon

Jon Elson wrote in message ...
Hello, all,

I made my own fuel pump for my lawn tractor. (Long story,
1968 Wisconsin one-cyl engine, carb vibrated to bits,
poor fuel feed when on hills, etc. So, I put a Kei Hin
carb off a Honda 450 motorcycle engine on it, and it runs
great, but needs a head of fuel above carb.) So, I made
a little pump out of a floppy drive motor, eccentric,
rubber diaphragm, and valves made out of ball bearings,
springs and standard flare fittings.

This all works great, but the diaphragms keep wearing out.
I started with some .060" Neoprene sheet that works well,
but lasts only 3 years or so. When it fails, it starts
spraying gasoline all over the place, which is NOT a good
idea! I bought some material specifically sold as "a diphragm
material for fuel pumps, etc." from MSC. It has nylon or
similar webbing in it. It is too stiff, but mostly works,
but it only lasts about ONE YEAR! What happens is the
"rubber" ,material swells up and disintegrates after long
exposure to fuel. The fuel pump diphragm in my 1989 Toyota
is the original factory piece, and is still working, after a
LOT more time and 137,000 miles. Does anyone know where to
get this kind of material, used in auto fuel pumps? I need
something that is pretty soft, as the motor doesn't have much
power, and that will last a long time, as I'm tired of rebuilding
this thing. Also, letting it run until failure is going to
involve me in a big fireball on of these days, and I want to
avoid that!

Hmm, maybe I already know the answer, JC Whitney?

Thanks in advance for all suggestions!

Jon


IIRC, the stuff they used to use was nitrile rubber with cloth
reinforcing. I don't know what's used these days, whatever it is, if
you're using pump gas, it's going to have to withstand MTBE, methanol,
ethanol and whatever other mouse milks they're running in the gas
these days. As you've discovered, neoprene really isn't suited for
today's gas. Might be you could get a fuel pump rebuild kit from(wait
for it) JC Whitney for some older model car or truck and use that
diaphram material. A junk yard would be another source, dismantle a
pump off a wreck and use the diaphram from it. Going to have be a
fairly old vehicle, fuel injection has been around a long time. I
hope you have some provision for emergency pump shutoff.

Stan

A place you could start is to call Seal Source inc (800-609-SEAL) they don't
have a website. Ask them to look up which materials work with gasoline. I
think viton is correct, maybe epdm also? They have a huge cross reference
that tells what plastics to use with what.
They will order for you whatever you need, but they really are a dealer to
hydraulic repair shops, so their prices may be steep.
They can alse sell pieces of teflon, either virgin, or glass or bronze
filled, oil filled nylon, urethane, and phenolic laminate tubes.
They can custom machine hydraulic seals for you too.

Good luck

Gene

"Stan Schaefer" wrote in message
om...
Jon Elson wrote in message
...
Hello, all,

I made my own fuel pump for my lawn tractor. (Long story,
1968 Wisconsin one-cyl engine, carb vibrated to bits,
poor fuel feed when on hills, etc. So, I put a Kei Hin
carb off a Honda 450 motorcycle engine on it, and it runs
great, but needs a head of fuel above carb.) So, I made
a little pump out of a floppy drive motor, eccentric,
rubber diaphragm, and valves made out of ball bearings,
springs and standard flare fittings.

This all works great, but the diaphragms keep wearing out.
I started with some .060" Neoprene sheet that works well,
but lasts only 3 years or so. When it fails, it starts
spraying gasoline all over the place, which is NOT a good
idea! I bought some material specifically sold as "a diphragm
material for fuel pumps, etc." from MSC. It has nylon or
similar webbing in it. It is too stiff, but mostly works,
but it only lasts about ONE YEAR! What happens is the
"rubber" ,material swells up and disintegrates after long
exposure to fuel. The fuel pump diphragm in my 1989 Toyota
is the original factory piece, and is still working, after a
LOT more time and 137,000 miles. Does anyone know where to
get this kind of material, used in auto fuel pumps? I need
something that is pretty soft, as the motor doesn't have much
power, and that will last a long time, as I'm tired of rebuilding
this thing. Also, letting it run until failure is going to
involve me in a big fireball on of these days, and I want to
avoid that!

Hmm, maybe I already know the answer, JC Whitney?

Thanks in advance for all suggestions!

Jon


IIRC, the stuff they used to use was nitrile rubber with cloth
reinforcing. I don't know what's used these days, whatever it is, if
you're using pump gas, it's going to have to withstand MTBE, methanol,
ethanol and whatever other mouse milks they're running in the gas
these days. As you've discovered, neoprene really isn't suited for
today's gas. Might be you could get a fuel pump rebuild kit from(wait
for it) JC Whitney for some older model car or truck and use that
diaphram material. A junk yard would be another source, dismantle a
pump off a wreck and use the diaphram from it. Going to have be a
fairly old vehicle, fuel injection has been around a long time. I
hope you have some provision for emergency pump shutoff.

Stan

A regular single-outlet Mikuni fuel pump is under $20... and they
normally last thousands of miles.
They require no electrical power... just a "pulse" line to a crankcase
vent or intake manifold port; and will support at least 30hp (maybe more) on
gasoline.
http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/07-425.html?id=DwIJp7jV
David



"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Hello, all,

I made my own fuel pump for my lawn tractor. (Long story,
1968 Wisconsin one-cyl engine, carb vibrated to bits,
poor fuel feed when on hills, etc. So, I put a Kei Hin
carb off a Honda 450 motorcycle engine on it, and it runs
great, but needs a head of fuel above carb.) So, I made
a little pump out of a floppy drive motor, eccentric,
rubber diaphragm, and valves made out of ball bearings,
springs and standard flare fittings.

This all works great, but the diaphragms keep wearing out.
I started with some .060" Neoprene sheet that works well,
but lasts only 3 years or so. When it fails, it starts
spraying gasoline all over the place, which is NOT a good
idea! I bought some material specifically sold as "a diphragm
material for fuel pumps, etc." from MSC. It has nylon or
similar webbing in it. It is too stiff, but mostly works,
but it only lasts about ONE YEAR! What happens is the
"rubber" ,material swells up and disintegrates after long
exposure to fuel. The fuel pump diphragm in my 1989 Toyota
is the original factory piece, and is still working, after a
LOT more time and 137,000 miles. Does anyone know where to
get this kind of material, used in auto fuel pumps? I need
something that is pretty soft, as the motor doesn't have much
power, and that will last a long time, as I'm tired of rebuilding
this thing. Also, letting it run until failure is going to
involve me in a big fireball on of these days, and I want to
avoid that!

Hmm, maybe I already know the answer, JC Whitney?

Thanks in advance for all suggestions!

Jon

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:13:41 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

Hello, all,

snip

This all works great, but the diaphragms keep wearing out.

snip

Just a thought... Did you design in too much movement on the diaphragm? What
sort of pressure limiting do you have in the system (1/2 psi ought to be
enough for the carburetor).


Mark Rand
RTFM

ya know, an electric fuel pump for a carburreted car is cheap, and a used
one ought to cost you no more than $5 - why not use an electric fuel pump?

"Mike H" 1newsATstelliteDOTmailshellDOTcom wrote in message
...
The diaphragm from the Toyota was probably made from a material called
Viton. It is very rubber-like. It smells like cinnamon when it cut or
abraded.
Mike H


"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Hello, all,

I made my own fuel pump for my lawn tractor. (Long story,
1968 Wisconsin one-cyl engine, carb vibrated to bits,
poor fuel feed when on hills, etc. So, I put a Kei Hin
carb off a Honda 450 motorcycle engine on it, and it runs
great, but needs a head of fuel above carb.) So, I made
a little pump out of a floppy drive motor, eccentric,
rubber diaphragm, and valves made out of ball bearings,
springs and standard flare fittings.

This all works great, but the diaphragms keep wearing out.
I started with some .060" Neoprene sheet that works well,
but lasts only 3 years or so. When it fails, it starts
spraying gasoline all over the place, which is NOT a good
idea! I bought some material specifically sold as "a diphragm
material for fuel pumps, etc." from MSC. It has nylon or
similar webbing in it. It is too stiff, but mostly works,
but it only lasts about ONE YEAR! What happens is the
"rubber" ,material swells up and disintegrates after long
exposure to fuel. The fuel pump diphragm in my 1989 Toyota
is the original factory piece, and is still working, after a
LOT more time and 137,000 miles. Does anyone know where to
get this kind of material, used in auto fuel pumps? I need
something that is pretty soft, as the motor doesn't have much
power, and that will last a long time, as I'm tired of rebuilding
this thing. Also, letting it run until failure is going to
involve me in a big fireball on of these days, and I want to
avoid that!

Hmm, maybe I already know the answer, JC Whitney?

Thanks in advance for all suggestions!

Jon

Mark Rand wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:13:41 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:


Hello, all,


snip

This all works great, but the diaphragms keep wearing out.


snip

Just a thought... Did you design in too much movement on the diaphragm? What
sort of pressure limiting do you have in the system (1/2 psi ought to be
enough for the carburetor).


The little header tank for the carb is 1" copper water pipe, with a
float switch in it. If the fuel pump fails to shut off, the air
vent back to the tank becomes an overflow drain. The diaphragm
has a fender washer about 3/4" OD on each side of it, and the
stroke is somewhere around 1/8".

Thanks for all the useful comments, I'll have to do some
more research.

Jon

On 8 Jun 2004 17:24:54 -0700, (markzoom) wrote:

Al A. wrote in message . ..
If anyone here is interested...

After a fair amount of discussion and advice from the crew here at
RCM, I got my plastic Jeep fuel tank fixed.



Told you a hot blade was the way to do it. Plastic moulding is my business.
Mark K.


Now don't be too hard on me,
I DID take your advice, after all.

You did earn the " Told YA so!" for today, however.

I appreciate your (and everybody elses input) very much.

This group has never let me dowm.

Thanks again,
AL

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 02:48:41 GMT, (Ken
Sterling) wrote:

If anyone here is interested...

After a fair amount of discussion and advice from the crew here at
RCM, I got my plastic Jeep fuel tank fixed.
SNIP

Thanks all!
-AL

Gotta be about the best possible place to get info, help, advice, and
knowledge is right here on RCM. There seems to be no limit to the
talents and abilities of this group. Between the posters here and all
the help they provide, and the dropbox which is a HUGE perk for this
group, I give a hearty THANK YOU and it's probably the only reason I
even stay connected to the internet.
Ken.


I'll second that, Ken. I've never missed here, even with OT stuff
like computer problems, car stuff or whatever. A good 80% of my
on-the-web time is spent perusing this group. I often wish I had more
to offer in return.

Now, anyone wanna talk gun control?
Heh.
(Couldn't resist. Excuse me while I don my flameproof suit and hide
under the desk...)

-AL