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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#41
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Semi precision grinding.
If you want to make it a project, take a 12 TPI saw blade, clamp it between
a couple of pieces of angle stock, and scrape the surface sideways. :-) Take two pieces of said sawblade, and use them in the jointer/planer head? Make sure you align the teeth (though if one points left and one right you might get squarish grooves?). Maybe go up a size or three, 8tpi, 6tpi, 4? --Glenn Lyford |
#42
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Semi precision grinding.
On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 17:22:47 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive built a number of machines for a friend of mine, who slots PVC pipe for the water industry. Any pics handy? Have been involved with a few homemade machines over the years and always interested in seeing others. -- William |
#43
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Semi precision grinding.
On 3 Jan 2011 04:55:54 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2011-01-03, Gunner Asch wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 18:39:36 -0500, William Bagwell wrote: Have not used a horizontal mill since 1977! Come to think of it I can not recall even seeing a (manual) horizontal any where in the past 20 years. Big CNC one I saw at an auction a few years back lacked the long arbor I remember from school though one was probably available. While I've got a small manual horizontal mill -- the Nichols, appropriately enough. :-) But another idea to consider for the future. Will start keeping my eye out for a cheap horizontal mill. You really want to take the idea, but not the horizontal mill. The spindle speeds are not fast enough for clean woodwork. Ah, good point. Plus either a jointer or a gang saw can easily be built into an existing table and not take up any additional room. (snips) We are putting 4" carbide tipped slotting saws on the arbors, with ground spacers between them..sometimes we have (30) .015 saws .125" apart all running on an arbor at 3600 rpm. While I think that he needs probably 0.125" saws, and spacers of 0.375" for a half inch center to center spacing. (Or do the bats prefer closer groove spacing?) Not sure if they prefer it but I can see no reason they would dislike having them closer. I think that most others in the past have stopped at 'close enough' because of the excessive labor of spacing them closer. May ask about this on the bat house forum. -- William |
#44
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Semi precision grinding.
On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 23:02:54 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 3 Jan 2011 04:55:54 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: (snips) Especially if you can find a batch of first time resharpened ones. You don't want a mix of different number of resharps because the diameters would vary too much. Im not sure in his application thats all that negative. No, and if it was only ten or fifteen thousandths would probably not even be noticeable to most folks. -- William |
#45
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Semi precision grinding.
On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:45:22 -0500, axolotl wrote:
On 1/2/2011 8:23 PM, William Bagwell wrote: Maternity colony, so more like bat bordellos than bleachers. I recently have been seeing expanded *cardboard* being used as packing materiel. A couple of ideas. Old sawmills sometimes used a shop built rotary planer- a horizontal spinning disc of wood with a single tooth sticking down. If the rough sawn wood was fed slowly, you got a smoother plank. If fed too fast, you got a series of arcs across the face of the lumber. You could feed fast. Need to Google this sometime. Sounds almost like a fly cutter. Plan B would be to purchase 1/4" corrugated cardboard honeycomb as is used in packing, lay it on the plywood, and spray it with acrylic for weather protection and adhesion. The corrugated sounds good but not the cardboard. Don't think it would be simple to keep it from falling apart in the presence of bat urine. Plan C? Recycle the tread of old tires. Charge more because the bat bordello is now green. Someone has already experimented with old tire tread on the outside of bat houses. http://bathouseforum.org/forum/old-t...it=tires#p4652 If you stayed away from bald slick tires it might possibly work for an interior surface as well. I want to experiment with small amounts of sand mixed with the plastic. (Rotomolding) Not sure it will be rough enough for the bats to cling to. Worth a try... Plan D? Buy the bark slab at the sawmill that is usually burned as waste. Use it inside out to build the bathouse. Slabs would probably be too rounded, but I also want to try making a few baffles the same way they make bark shingles. Siding not roof, and not kidding here! Traditionally American chestnut was used and there are still a few surviving examples. Tulip popular is a poor substitute. Probably actually easier to work with than chestnut however I can not imagine it lasting anywhere near as long. -- William |
#46
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Semi precision grinding.
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 08:35:23 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote: William Bagwell wrote: ... BTW these grooves need to be slightly rough. While I want to avoid splinters extremely smooth groves are not what I need or want. Nor do I want any radius at the top or bottom of the grooves. This would defeat the whole purpose of having grooves for the bats little toenails to grip Bats? Just get some rough-sawn wood or take some very coarse grit paper and rough up the surface. They'll figure it out. They're able to cling to the ceilings of caves, you know. I actually discussed rough-sawn with a sawmill that supplies the pallet industry a few days ago. Described my needs and they believe that in relatively small quantities they can beat the price per square foot of exterior plywood. Sadly my prototype run will not be large enough to cover the set up charge. If you want to make it a project, take a 12 TPI saw blade, clamp it between a couple of pieces of angle stock, and scrape the surface sideways. :-) Power hack saw blades! In a jointer, not hand scraping... If your idea works they would be incredibly easy to make and replace when dull. -- William |
#47
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Semi precision grinding.
On Tue, 4 Jan 2011 19:45:01 -0800 (PST), Glenn Lyford
wrote: If you want to make it a project, take a 12 TPI saw blade, clamp it between a couple of pieces of angle stock, and scrape the surface sideways. :-) Take two pieces of said sawblade, and use them in the jointer/planer head? Make sure you align the teeth (though if one points left and one right you might get squarish grooves?). Maybe go up a size or three, 8tpi, 6tpi, 4? Ah, even better. Two saw blades would probably be about the same thickness as one jointer blade. -- William |
#48
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Semi precision grinding.
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 19:13:55 -0500, William Bagwell
wrote: On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 17:22:47 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: Ive built a number of machines for a friend of mine, who slots PVC pipe for the water industry. Any pics handy? Have been involved with a few homemade machines over the years and always interested in seeing others. Ill try to remember to take some next week when I go down, with his permission. This is the sort of thing they do with my machines: http://www.certainteed.com/resources...ing403733f.pdf Gunner -- "You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once." Robert A. Heinlein |
#49
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 10:51:17 -0500, William Bagwell
wrote: Need shallow grooves in wood, *lots* of shallow grooves in lots of wood. At least 48 in each side of dozens of 16 X 24" pieces of plywood and almost as many boards grooved on only one side. Remote possibility this will become a recurring need and I will be able to afford machinery and or custom tooling to make this easy. For now I'm doing a limited run of prototypes and could resort to cutting them one by one with a circular saw. Perhaps even two at a time with two blades in a table saw. But where is the fun in that? Have access to an old 6" jointer and think modifying the knives with a series of flats leaving a row of cutting tips spaced approximately 1/2" apart *might* just work. Cutting at least 12 grooves in one pass. Looking for ideas that are better than just goobering up a set of jointer knives with a hand held abrasive blade. Have no free access to a surface grinder or any machine shop equipment more sophisticated than a worn out drill-mill combo. BTW these grooves need to be slightly rough. While I want to avoid splinters extremely smooth groves are not what I need or want. Nor do I want any radius at the top or bottom of the grooves. This would defeat the whole purpose of having grooves for the bats little toenails to grip Got a lot of helpful replies to this back in January and wanted to update every one on my glacially slow progress. Ended up grinding 16, 1/4" wide slots in each jointer knife, two at a time, with a bench grinder. Resulting 1/8" wide tips do a half way decent job of putting groves in wood which is what I set out to do. http://alt-config.net/modifiedjointer.html Scroll down for the metal related stuff. Ran a few proto type shells in March then realized I still needed a bunch more wood working equipment to build baffles in quantities. Next acquisition will be a thickness planner since all the rough sawn lumber available locally is too thick, or varies too much, or involves an expensive set up charge, or... Will also try next door in the wood working group for help on the planner. Have a few more metal related ideas I want to try eventually but don't need the distractions at the moment. -- William |
#50
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
On 7/24/2011 7:57 AM, William Bagwell wrote:
On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 10:51:17 -0500, William Bagwell wrote: Need shallow grooves in wood, *lots* of shallow grooves in lots of wood. At least 48 in each side of dozens of 16 X 24" pieces of plywood and almost as many boards grooved on only one side. Remote possibility this will become a recurring need and I will be able to afford machinery and or custom tooling to make this easy. For now I'm doing a limited run of prototypes and could resort to cutting them one by one with a circular saw. Perhaps even two at a time with two blades in a table saw. But where is the fun in that? Have access to an old 6" jointer and think modifying the knives with a series of flats leaving a row of cutting tips spaced approximately 1/2" apart *might* just work. Cutting at least 12 grooves in one pass. Looking for ideas that are better than just goobering up a set of jointer knives with a hand held abrasive blade. Have no free access to a surface grinder or any machine shop equipment more sophisticated than a worn out drill-mill combo. BTW these grooves need to be slightly rough. While I want to avoid splinters extremely smooth groves are not what I need or want. Nor do I want any radius at the top or bottom of the grooves. This would defeat the whole purpose of having grooves for the bats little toenails to grip Got a lot of helpful replies to this back in January and wanted to update every one on my glacially slow progress. Ended up grinding 16, 1/4" wide slots in each jointer knife, two at a time, with a bench grinder. Resulting 1/8" wide tips do a half way decent job of putting groves in wood which is what I set out to do. http://alt-config.net/modifiedjointer.html Scroll down for the metal related stuff. I feel your pain - I have tried a similar thing for (rehab birds)using a table saw and making multiple passes. It gets v tedious after a while but unlike yourself, it's not something that has to be repeated often. I gather you are making bat houses, a worthwhile endeavor IMO. Laurie Forbes |
#51
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
William Bagwell wrote:
On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 10:51:17 -0500, William Bagwell wrote: Need shallow grooves in wood, *lots* of shallow grooves in lots of wood. At least 48 in each side of dozens of 16 X 24" pieces of plywood and almost as many boards grooved on only one side. Remote possibility this will become a recurring need and I will be able to afford machinery and or custom tooling to make this easy. For now I'm doing a limited run of prototypes and could resort to cutting them one by one with a circular saw. Perhaps even two at a time with two blades in a table saw. But where is the fun in that? Have access to an old 6" jointer and think modifying the knives with a series of flats leaving a row of cutting tips spaced approximately 1/2" apart *might* just work. Cutting at least 12 grooves in one pass. Looking for ideas that are better than just goobering up a set of jointer knives with a hand held abrasive blade. Have no free access to a surface grinder or any machine shop equipment more sophisticated than a worn out drill-mill combo. BTW these grooves need to be slightly rough. While I want to avoid splinters extremely smooth groves are not what I need or want. Nor do I want any radius at the top or bottom of the grooves. This would defeat the whole purpose of having grooves for the bats little toenails to grip Got a lot of helpful replies to this back in January and wanted to update every one on my glacially slow progress. Ended up grinding 16, 1/4" wide slots in each jointer knife, two at a time, with a bench grinder. Resulting 1/8" wide tips do a half way decent job of putting groves in wood which is what I set out to do. http://alt-config.net/modifiedjointer.html Scroll down for the metal related stuff. Ran a few proto type shells in March then realized I still needed a bunch more wood working equipment to build baffles in quantities. Next acquisition will be a thickness planner since all the rough sawn lumber available locally is too thick, or varies too much, or involves an expensive set up charge, or... Will also try next door in the wood working group for help on the planner. Have a few more metal related ideas I want to try eventually but don't need the distractions at the moment. If it works great. I do some wood forming and usually cut relief grooves using a similar set-up. I built an arbor that allowed me to stack small saw blades and machine washers. The blades are the ones used with toe kick saws. -- Steve W. |
#52
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
On Jul 24, 3:46*pm, "Steve W." wrote:
... How about blasting the wood with a pressure washer? jsw |
#53
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:43:47 -0600, Laurie Forbes wrote:
I feel your pain - I have tried a similar thing for (rehab birds)using a table saw and making multiple passes. It gets v tedious after a while but unlike yourself, it's not something that has to be repeated often. I gather you are making bat houses, a worthwhile endeavor IMO. Yes, bat houses and very worth while for the little critters. Therapeutic for my sanity too, but a bit hard on the wallet -- William |
#54
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:46:41 -0400, "Steve W." wrote:
If it works great. I do some wood forming and usually cut relief grooves using a similar set-up. I built an arbor that allowed me to stack small saw blades and machine washers. The blades are the ones used with toe kick saws. It works great, not sure how long it will last before it needs re-sharpening. If I ever out grow this rig something very similar to what you describe is probably the next step. Will need to do a 24" wide board (even if more than one pass) so the arbor size will have to be beefy. -- William |
#55
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 14:47:58 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins wrote:
How about blasting the wood with a pressure washer? Even if I found that perfect combination of hard / soft grain layers and water pressure, it would probably be way too labor intensive. And likely a bit too rounded of grooves as well. Basically the same problems as sand blasting except you trade dust for drying time. Still worth experimenting with a bit though... -- William |
#56
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 13:30:41 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
For wood working machines of all sorts...contact He also sells on Ebay. If he doesnt have what you need, he can probably find it for you. http://stores.ebay.com/Great-Machine...Machine?_rdc=1 A very good and very honest seller. Left coast? Shipping will likely negate any possible savings but will contact him with my needs. Going to look for used commercial first over hobbyist (or full industrial. No 3 phase) since I need fast not smooth. -- William |
#57
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 20:31:41 -0400, William Bagwell
wrote: On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 13:30:41 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: For wood working machines of all sorts...contact He also sells on Ebay. If he doesnt have what you need, he can probably find it for you. http://stores.ebay.com/Great-Machine...Machine?_rdc=1 A very good and very honest seller. Left coast? Shipping will likely negate any possible savings but will contact him with my needs. Going to look for used commercial first over hobbyist (or full industrial. No 3 phase) since I need fast not smooth. He gets cheaper shipping than anyone I know. He has some working agreements with a number of shipping resources. Gunner -- Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head. |
#58
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 20:08:31 -0400, William Bagwell
wrote: On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:43:47 -0600, Laurie Forbes wrote: I feel your pain - I have tried a similar thing for (rehab birds)using a table saw and making multiple passes. It gets v tedious after a while but unlike yourself, it's not something that has to be repeated often. I gather you are making bat houses, a worthwhile endeavor IMO. Yes, bat houses and very worth while for the little critters. Therapeutic for my sanity too, but a bit hard on the wallet From what I understand, dem leetle guyses have tiny feetzes and tiny clawzes on 'em so a single cut with a table saw blade will give them enough purchase to climb and roost. That's what I used for my neighbor's bat houses. He tells me he hasn't seen any occupants yet. shrug http://www.fws.gov/Asheville/pdfs/beneficialbats.pdf Do NOT stain the inside like the idiot from the NWF site suggests. It's both toxic to animals and the smell will drive them off. -- [Television is] the triumph of machine over people. -- Fred Allen |
#59
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
William Bagwell wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:46:41 -0400, "Steve W." wrote: If it works great. I do some wood forming and usually cut relief grooves using a similar set-up. I built an arbor that allowed me to stack small saw blades and machine washers. The blades are the ones used with toe kick saws. It works great, not sure how long it will last before it needs re-sharpening. If I ever out grow this rig something very similar to what you describe is probably the next step. Will need to do a 24" wide board (even if more than one pass) so the arbor size will have to be beefy. Well you could cheat and support the arbor between the blades. Just use a narrow bearing and a simple stantion mount. -- Steve W. |
#60
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:40:55 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: From what I understand, dem leetle guyses have tiny feetzes and tiny clawzes on 'em so a single cut with a table saw blade will give them enough purchase to climb and roost. That's what I used for my neighbor's bat houses. He tells me he hasn't seen any occupants yet. shrug How long has it been up? Current consensus is that if it fails to attract bats after two years try moving it to a different location. I got lucky and had a few in a house less than two months after I put it up. Sadly they only stayed a couple of weeks then left at the same time the slightly larger colony they had split from left its roost in the eaves of our house. http://www.fws.gov/Asheville/pdfs/beneficialbats.pdf Do NOT stain the inside like the idiot from the NWF site suggests. It's both toxic to animals and the smell will drive them off. At least they specify water based stain, but some of that stuff stinks too. Have not tried either yet, but charcoal and homemade 'stain' from walnut husks are both supposed to work well. Only need to darken the wood that sticks out in the light and the bottom few inches of each baffle. The rest of the interior absolutely does not need any paint or stain. -- William |
#61
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 05:52:24 -0400, William Bagwell
wrote: On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:40:55 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: From what I understand, dem leetle guyses have tiny feetzes and tiny clawzes on 'em so a single cut with a table saw blade will give them enough purchase to climb and roost. That's what I used for my neighbor's bat houses. He tells me he hasn't seen any occupants yet. shrug How long has it been up? Current consensus is that if it fails to attract bats after two years try moving it to a different location. I got lucky and had a few in a house less than two months after I put it up. Sadly they only stayed a couple of weeks then left at the same time the slightly larger colony they had split from left its roost in the eaves of our house. Yeah, they've been up a couple years now. I'll mention it to him. http://www.fws.gov/Asheville/pdfs/beneficialbats.pdf Do NOT stain the inside like the idiot from the NWF site suggests. It's both toxic to animals and the smell will drive them off. At least they specify water based stain, but some of that stuff stinks too. Have not tried either yet, but charcoal and homemade 'stain' from walnut husks are both supposed to work well. Only need to darken the wood that sticks out in the light and the bottom few inches of each baffle. The rest of the interior absolutely does not need any paint or stain. If you're doing this as a talking point for your house, stain. If you're doing it for the bats, don't. -- [Television is] the triumph of machine over people. -- Fred Allen |
#62
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
On Jul 24, 7:57*am, William Bagwell
wrote: On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 10:51:17 -0500, William Bagwell wrote: Need shallow grooves in wood, *lots* of shallow grooves in lots of wood. At least 48 in each side of dozens of 16 X 24" pieces of plywood and almost as many boards grooved on only one side. Remote possibility this will become a recurring need and I will be able to afford machinery and or custom tooling to make this easy. For now I'm doing a limited run of prototypes and could resort to cutting them one by one with a circular saw. Perhaps even two at a time with two blades in a table saw. But where is the fun in that? Have access to an old 6" jointer and think modifying the knives with a series of flats leaving a row of cutting tips spaced approximately 1/2" apart *might* just work. Cutting at least 12 grooves in one pass. Looking for ideas that are better than just goobering up a set of jointer knives with a hand held abrasive blade. Have no free access to a surface grinder or any machine shop equipment more sophisticated than a worn out drill-mill combo. BTW these grooves need to be slightly rough. While I want to avoid splinters extremely smooth groves are not what I need or want. Nor do I want any radius at the top or bottom of the grooves. This would defeat the whole purpose of having grooves for the bats little toenails to grip Got a lot of helpful replies to this back in January and wanted to update every one on my glacially slow progress. Ended up grinding 16, 1/4" wide slots in each jointer knife, two at a time, with a bench grinder. Resulting 1/8" wide tips do a half way decent job of putting groves in wood which is what I set out to do.http://alt-config.net/modifiedjointer.htmlScroll down for the metal related stuff. Ran a few proto type shells in March then realized I still needed a bunch more wood working equipment to build baffles in quantities. Next acquisition will be a thickness planner since all the rough sawn lumber available locally is too thick, or varies too much, or involves an expensive set up charge, or... Will also try next door in the wood working group for help on the planner. Have a few more metal related ideas I want to try eventually but don't need the distractions at the moment. -- William- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - If you're not looking for a big piece of permanently installed equipment, have a look at the portable planers. I've got a DeWalt that works very well for making a stack of blanks uniform, but don't forget the dust control bits. Even taking off just a 1/64" will bury you in shavings and dust. I've run hundreds of feet of slats and nominal 2x without problems other than hitting a staple. Buy extra blades, too. www.toolking.com sometimes has factory refurbs for cheap, shipping may get you on that, though. DeWalt now has a rolling tool base for their portable saws and planers, works pretty well.. Stan |
#63
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
William Bagwell wrote:
How long has it been up? Current consensus is that if it fails to attract bats after two years try moving it to a different location. ... My bat story: When we remodeled, many years ago, some siding and trim was removed from the house, giving a few very small openings into the attic. The bats found those openings almost immediately and took up residence. Which we didn't realize until we finished the remodeling, closing up the openings, and forcing the bats to exit the attic through the crack under a door, into the house. Intending to seize the opportunity to have a bat colony, I made a bat house and mounted it on the side of our house. It took them 11 YEARS to take up in that bat house! I guess that my bat house just didn't have the appeal that the attic did. Bob |
#65
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update: Semi precision grinding.
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 19:54:43 -0400, William Bagwell wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 04:41:36 -0700 (PDT), wrote: If you're not looking for a big piece of permanently installed equipment, have a look at the portable planers. I've got a DeWalt that works very well for making a stack of blanks uniform, but don't forget the dust control bits. Even taking off just a 1/64" will bury you in shavings and dust. I've run hundreds of feet of slats and nominal 2x without problems other than hitting a staple. Buy extra blades, too. www.toolking.com sometimes has factory refurbs for cheap, shipping may get you on that, though. DeWalt now has a rolling tool base for their portable saws and planers, works pretty well.. As I mentioned to someone else, I'm looking first at used commercial. (Though the factory refurbs in your link look good!) Have no 3 phase nor the desire to fool with converters so full industrial is out unless it so cheap I can afford to swap the motor. Have looked at the hobbyist grade planers in the local big box stores (Lowes and Home Depot) and not liking what I'm seeing at all. The only two speed is the ~$600 DeWalt and it has *way* too much plastic on it for my tastes. (I work in plastics and have noted that the big machines that make things out of plastic have very little of the stuff themselves. Makes you wonder...) Since I'm going to turn around and put grooves in the wood I want fast over smooth. As stans4 points out, the planer will produce lots of shavings. Do you plan to take off 1/4" from 3/4"-thick wood, or more than that? You can take off about 1/8" per pass, but of course can run 2 or 3 sticks through at the same time. If you start with 1"x4"-s, you might consider resawing them on a band saw. A good bandsaw with tightly-tensioned fast-running blade should have little trouble resawing 1x4 pine, and a really good bandsaw can resaw 6"-wide wood ok. You would end up with twice as many square feet of output from resawing vs planing. -- jiw |
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