On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 14:59:09 -0800 (PST), Shall not be infringed
wrote:

On Dec 7, 8:18*am, Iarnrod wrote:
On Nov 30, 5:29*pm, "Buddy Beavers" wrote:

WHY NO SALUTE BY OBAMA AT MEDAL OF HONOR CEREMONY?
By Attorney Rees Lloyd
November 26, 2010

Hey ****-for-brains, one does not salute sergeants.

Sure you can.

Sergeants NEVER receive salutes, only officers.

Sergeants salute officers, which would include the CIC, whereupon the
officer is expected to return the salute correctly, smartly and
respectfully.

On 12/7/2010 8:55 PM, Don Foreman wrote:
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 14:59:09 -0800 (PST), Shall not be infringed
wrote:

On Dec 7, 8:18 am, wrote:
On Nov 30, 5:29 pm, "Buddy wrote:

WHY NO SALUTE BY OBAMA AT MEDAL OF HONOR CEREMONY?
By Attorney Rees Lloyd
November 26, 2010

Hey ****-for-brains, one does not salute sergeants.

Sure you can.

Sergeants NEVER receive salutes, only officers.

Sergeants salute officers, which would include the CIC, whereupon the
officer is expected to return the salute correctly, smartly and
respectfully.


You guys sure make a mountain out of a molehill. I mean, come on. What's
the big deal about a salute? Did the sergeant salute the CIC? No, so the
CIC wasn't required to return it, was he? Besides, have you never seen
Obama salute anyone? I know I have. The point is that it's about style.
Obama may be commander in chief but that is a minor role for him. He's
really the chief administrator of the country. As such he's more
concerned with other things than being a member of the military and
following the proper etiquette the military uses. Obama is like a CEO
not a CIC. He's also trying to reduce the appearance of him being head
of the military as a primary role. CIC is just one of the things he is
and he doesn't want it to become overly prominent. He's a civilian. Not
a member of the military. You should keep that in mind when you expect
him to act like a proper soldier. Also keep in mind that to find fault
for such a niggling thing as you did just exposes your anti Obama bias.

Hawke

On Dec 8, 7:06*pm, Hawke wrote:


You guys sure make a mountain out of a molehill.
Hawke


If it was a tradition, Obama ought to have done it. Obviously not a
big thing to you, but also obvious it is a big thing to some of those
that were in the military.

Dan

On 12/8/2010 5:47 PM, wrote:
On Dec 8, 7:06 pm, wrote:


You guys sure make a mountain out of a molehill.
Hawke


If it was a tradition, Obama ought to have done it. Obviously not a
big thing to you, but also obvious it is a big thing to some of those
that were in the military.

Dan




It's not really a big thing to them either. They're just looking for
nits to pick. They hate Democrats so they hate Obama. So any chance they
get to go after him they do, it doesn't matter how trivial it is, it's
an opportunity. Just look at how people in the military look at people
who make a big deal out of saluting. You've heard some of these guys,
right? They say saluting is mainly an informal thing and lots of
officers don't do it. But there are always a few sticklers that everyone
can't stand because they are "sticklers". Obama gave the guy a medal,
which he probably didn't deserve, he shook his hand, and he gave him a
little hug. I saw a repeat of it a day or so ago. To 99% of the people
who saw the ceremony they thought it was just fine. But we're talking
about the 1% that made a mountain out of it. These were the same people
who overlooked every goof up that Bush made, so I think that puts the
whole thing in context. It's a partisan thing for them.

By the way, I saw the sergeant on 60 Minutes and heard his whole story.
I was shocked he would get the highest medal possible. It seemed like he
was too. If you read the stories of other medal of honor winners it
doesn't sound like it was worth even a bronze star. He was in a tiny
firefight and saved one guy from capture. Audie Murphy he isn't. With
that in mind you can see why I think a lack of a salute by Obama was
nothing. But as they say, everyone's got an opinion, and that's mine.

Hawke

On Dec 8, 11:52*pm, Hawke wrote:

But as they say, everyone's got an opinion, and that's mine.

Hawke

And my opinion is that the President should have followed the
tradition.

Dan

On 12/9/2010 6:19 AM, wrote:
On Dec 8, 11:52 pm, wrote:

But as they say, everyone's got an opinion, and that's mine.

Hawke

And my opinion is that the President should have followed the
tradition.

Dan


That's what opinions are all about. Everyone has their own and that's
fine by me. But I was just wondering how many times you have personally
seen a president award a medal of honor award. I'm probably as old as
you and I can't remember ever seeing it. So I'm wondering how you know
about that "tradition". There are not many medal of honor winners at all
and most of them were killed in action. So how many times have you seen
the president hand one out? And which president?

Hawke

On Dec 10, 1:38*am, Hawke wrote:

That's what opinions are all about. Everyone has their own and that's
fine by me. But I was just wondering how many times you have personally
seen a president award a medal of honor award. I'm probably as old as
you and I can't remember ever seeing it. So I'm wondering how you know
about that "tradition". There are not many medal of honor winners at all
and most of them were killed in action. So how many times have you seen
the president hand one out? And which president?

Hawke

I think I am a lot older than you, but I have never personally seen a
president, much less a president awarding a Metal of Honor. I did see
Jimmy Carter once, but that was when he was running for governor of
Georgia.

I do not know if there is a tradition of the President saluting a
Metal of Honor recipient. From an earlier post...............

First you do not seem to be able to grasp that Obama is human and can
do anything wrong. If it is tradition to salute those that receive
the Metal of Honor, then Obama should have done it.

From a later post

If it was a tradition, Obama ought to have done it. Obviously not a
big thing to you, but also obvious it is a big thing to some of those
that were in the military.

And from the latest post in response to your statement "As such he's
more
concerned with other things than being a member of the military and
following the proper etiquette the military uses."

And my opinion is that the President should have followed the
tradition.

I never said there was a tradition, only that Obama should have
followed whatever tradition there is. You had previously made the
argument that the President did not have to follow tradition. And
while I agree that he does not have to, I believe he should.

I leave it to you to determine if there is a tradition of the
President saluting a recipient of the Metal of Honor immediately after
presenting the metal.

Dan

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 06:16:30 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 10, 1:38*am, Hawke wrote:

That's what opinions are all about. Everyone has their own and that's
fine by me. But I was just wondering how many times you have personally
seen a president award a medal of honor award. I'm probably as old as
you and I can't remember ever seeing it. So I'm wondering how you know
about that "tradition". There are not many medal of honor winners at all
and most of them were killed in action. So how many times have you seen
the president hand one out? And which president?

Hawke

I think I am a lot older than you, but I have never personally seen a
president, much less a president awarding a Metal of Honor. I did see
Jimmy Carter once, but that was when he was running for governor of
Georgia.

I do not know if there is a tradition of the President saluting a
Metal of Honor recipient. From an earlier post...............

First you do not seem to be able to grasp that Obama is human and can
do anything wrong. If it is tradition to salute those that receive
the Metal of Honor, then Obama should have done it.

From a later post

If it was a tradition, Obama ought to have done it. Obviously not a
big thing to you, but also obvious it is a big thing to some of those
that were in the military.

And from the latest post in response to your statement "As such he's
more
concerned with other things than being a member of the military and
following the proper etiquette the military uses."

And my opinion is that the President should have followed the
tradition.

I never said there was a tradition, only that Obama should have
followed whatever tradition there is. You had previously made the
argument that the President did not have to follow tradition. And
while I agree that he does not have to, I believe he should.

I leave it to you to determine if there is a tradition of the
President saluting a recipient of the Metal of Honor immediately after
presenting the metal.

Dan


The occasion is military: a military honoree receiving a military
decoration for exceptional military performance in the line of duty.

The president is a civilian.

Should the ceremony be conducted in a military manner, or in a
civilian manner with hugs etc?

Is the event about the honoree and his heroism or a showcase for a
most exhalted president?

Don Foreman wrote:

The occasion is military: a military honoree receiving a military
decoration for exceptional military performance in the line of duty.

The president is a civilian.

Should the ceremony be conducted in a military manner, or in a
civilian manner with hugs etc?

Is the event about the honoree and his heroism or a showcase for a
most exhalted president?


If the 'president' isn't going to honor the man for his actions, he
should have just mailed him the medal.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

wrote in message
...
On Dec 8, 7:06 pm, Hawke wrote:


You guys sure make a mountain out of a molehill.
Hawke


If it was a tradition, Obama ought to have done it. Obviously not a
big thing to you, but also obvious it is a big thing to some of those
that were in the military.

Dan



I'm sure he doesn't forget to make the sign of the bloods and crips whenever
the crack pipe gets passed. The least he could do is remember to salute his
betters.

wrote in message
...
On Dec 10, 1:38 am, Hawke wrote:

That's what opinions are all about. Everyone has their own and that's
fine by me. But I was just wondering how many times you have personally
seen a president award a medal of honor award. I'm probably as old as
you and I can't remember ever seeing it. So I'm wondering how you know
about that "tradition". There are not many medal of honor winners at all
and most of them were killed in action. So how many times have you seen
the president hand one out? And which president?

Hawke

I think I am a lot older than you, but I have never personally seen a
president, much less a president awarding a Metal of Honor. I did see
Jimmy Carter once, but that was when he was running for governor of
Georgia.

I do not know if there is a tradition of the President saluting a
Metal of Honor recipient. From an earlier post...............

First you do not seem to be able to grasp that Obama is human and can
do anything wrong. If it is tradition to salute those that receive
the Metal of Honor, then Obama should have done it.

From a later post

If it was a tradition, Obama ought to have done it. Obviously not a
big thing to you, but also obvious it is a big thing to some of those
that were in the military.

And from the latest post in response to your statement "As such he's
more
concerned with other things than being a member of the military and
following the proper etiquette the military uses."

And my opinion is that the President should have followed the
tradition.

I never said there was a tradition, only that Obama should have
followed whatever tradition there is. You had previously made the
argument that the President did not have to follow tradition. And
while I agree that he does not have to, I believe he should.

I leave it to you to determine if there is a tradition of the
President saluting a recipient of the Metal of Honor immediately after
presenting the metal.

Dan



The problem with Hack is he doesn't remember what he posted or what the
context of his post was, since those are not his thoughts. One would
remember their own thoughts. He's just a parakeet repeating whatever he
looked up on his liberal instruction manual for that day.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Don Foreman wrote:

The occasion is military: a military honoree receiving a military
decoration for exceptional military performance in the line of duty.

The president is a civilian.

Should the ceremony be conducted in a military manner, or in a
civilian manner with hugs etc?

Is the event about the honoree and his heroism or a showcase for a
most exhalted president?


If the 'president' isn't going to honor the man for his actions, he
should have just mailed him the medal.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

Rumor is that he had burned his hand earlier while toking on his crack pipe,
and he didn't want the cameras to pick up the band aid, lest the rumors
about him fisting Joe Biden would gain traction.

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 06:16:30 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 10, 1:38*am, Hawke wrote:

That's what opinions are all about. Everyone has their own and that's
fine by me. But I was just wondering how many times you have personally
seen a president award a medal of honor award. I'm probably as old as
you and I can't remember ever seeing it. So I'm wondering how you know
about that "tradition". There are not many medal of honor winners at all
and most of them were killed in action. So how many times have you seen
the president hand one out? And which president?

Hawke

I think I am a lot older than you, but I have never personally seen a
president, much less a president awarding a Metal of Honor. I did see
Jimmy Carter once, but that was when he was running for governor of
Georgia.

I do not know if there is a tradition of the President saluting a
Metal of Honor recipient. From an earlier post...............

First you do not seem to be able to grasp that Obama is human and can
do anything wrong. If it is tradition to salute those that receive
the Metal of Honor, then Obama should have done it.

From a later post

If it was a tradition, Obama ought to have done it. Obviously not a
big thing to you, but also obvious it is a big thing to some of those
that were in the military.

And from the latest post in response to your statement "As such he's
more
concerned with other things than being a member of the military and
following the proper etiquette the military uses."

And my opinion is that the President should have followed the
tradition.

I never said there was a tradition, only that Obama should have
followed whatever tradition there is. You had previously made the
argument that the President did not have to follow tradition. And
while I agree that he does not have to, I believe he should.

I leave it to you to determine if there is a tradition of the
President saluting a recipient of the Metal of Honor immediately after
presenting the metal.

Dan
I suppose that the real question is whether there is a regulation that
the recipient of a Medal of Honor is entitled to a salute, and which
regulation actually requires it?

A cursory search of the UCMJ certainly indicates that there is no
requirement, however a search of federal regulations might show
something different.

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 07:41:11 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:


I suppose that the real question is whether there is a regulation that
the recipient of a Medal of Honor is entitled to a salute, and which
regulation actually requires it?

Yes, he is.
http://www.armystudyguide.com/conten...esies-st.shtml
Note question 10: the recipient of the Medal of Honor, whether
enlisted or commissioned, is entitled to a salute.

But from the president? Is the president, as CIC, a member of the
armed forces and subject to their regulations?

Wrong question. The real question is one of respect. A president and
CIC that would only offer(or not) such gesture of respect as is
required by regulations dishonors both his office and the MOH
recipient. As another poster noted, he may as well just mail the
medal -- but then he'd miss the photo op.

A cursory search of the UCMJ certainly indicates that there is no
requirement, however a search of federal regulations might show
something different.

Wrong place to look.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...1-13/chap4.htm

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 00:44:38 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 07:41:11 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:


I suppose that the real question is whether there is a regulation that
the recipient of a Medal of Honor is entitled to a salute, and which
regulation actually requires it?

Yes, he is.
http://www.armystudyguide.com/conten...esies-st.shtml
Note question 10: the recipient of the Medal of Honor, whether
enlisted or commissioned, is entitled to a salute.

But from the president? Is the president, as CIC, a member of the
armed forces and subject to their regulations?

Wrong question. The real question is one of respect. A president and
CIC that would only offer(or not) such gesture of respect as is
required by regulations dishonors both his office and the MOH
recipient. As another poster noted, he may as well just mail the
medal -- but then he'd miss the photo op.

A cursory search of the UCMJ certainly indicates that there is no
requirement, however a search of federal regulations might show
something different.

Wrong place to look.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...1-13/chap4.htm


I had a look at your reference and also read AR 600-25 (Salutes,
Honors, and Visits of Courtesy and the only reference to "Medal of
Honor" I saw was in par. 6-17 (Burial Honors) which sets out the
minimum services for the funeral of an active duty serviceman or Medal
of Honor holder.
6 enlisted pallbearers, firing squad, a bugler, Officer or NCO in
charge, Chaplain.

So the question still is , what regulation or article of the ICMJ
authorizes, or requires a salute for M)H holders?

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 19:33:09 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 00:44:38 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 07:41:11 +0700, J. D. Slocomb
wrote:


I suppose that the real question is whether there is a regulation that
the recipient of a Medal of Honor is entitled to a salute, and which
regulation actually requires it?

Yes, he is.
http://www.armystudyguide.com/conten...esies-st.shtml
Note question 10: the recipient of the Medal of Honor, whether
enlisted or commissioned, is entitled to a salute.

But from the president? Is the president, as CIC, a member of the
armed forces and subject to their regulations?

Wrong question. The real question is one of respect. A president and
CIC that would only offer(or not) such gesture of respect as is
required by regulations dishonors both his office and the MOH
recipient. As another poster noted, he may as well just mail the
medal -- but then he'd miss the photo op.

A cursory search of the UCMJ certainly indicates that there is no
requirement, however a search of federal regulations might show
something different.

Wrong place to look.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...1-13/chap4.htm


I had a look at your reference and also read AR 600-25 (Salutes,
Honors, and Visits of Courtesy and the only reference to "Medal of
Honor" I saw was in par. 6-17 (Burial Honors) which sets out the
minimum services for the funeral of an active duty serviceman or Medal
of Honor holder.
6 enlisted pallbearers, firing squad, a bugler, Officer or NCO in
charge, Chaplain.

So the question still is , what regulation or article of the ICMJ
authorizes, or requires a salute for M)H holders?

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

Very probably none. That would be addressed in an AR, not the UCMJ,
neither of which apply to the civilian president. Obama is not likely
to get a court-martial, article 15 or civilian ticket for his conduct.
Nobody knows how to be offensive with impunity better than a lawyer!