Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.

"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.

Metric sucks, and I don't give a damn about the arguments to the contrary.

Those of us that were groomed to work in the Imperial measuring system have
no issues with how it works. I know what a yard is, as well as I know what
a foot is, or one ten thousandth of an inch, for that matter.

As you alluded, when someone makes mention of a size, I have an instant
visual idea of it's general size. Not so with metric, which I must convert
to Imperial in order to get a perspective.

Is it any wonder that the US has resisted the conversion to metric?

Harold

"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.

For approximate stuff just think of 25 mm = 1" , 100 mm = 4" , 200 mm = 8"
etc.

In the US, in my field of optical engineering, lens elements are always
specified in mm, but the lens housings that hold them are usually specified
in inches. This is because lens fabrication in the US was pioneered by
German immigrants, so lenses were always done in mm or meters. However most
engineering firms STILL do mechanical design in inches. This fact amazes
optical engineers from Japan and Europe, especially since tolerances on the
internal bores can be as small as a few .0001" . Or is that a few microns?
Or is that a few micrometers (as a millionth of a meter is known in the rest
of the world)?

One good thing about inches is that it forces you to learn fractions. Any
(good) carpenter in the US can add 2-9/16 + 3/4 in his head. I have seen
Ph.Ds from Europe struggle with this for some time with paper and pencil.

Andrew VK3BFA on Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:07:18 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Layout in Imperial, convert to Metric at the last.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Many years ago I suffered the same thing, but time and practice makes it better. I can now think metric without having to convert
to Imperial for perspective. However, it is important to note that some things are easier to accomplish with Imperial than Metric,
but that knife cuts both ways. So now I use both depending on the task at hand. I have half my machines as Metric based and the
other half Imperial based. So far, I haven't suffered errors of system confusion.
Steve

"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message ...
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.

"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...

Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.


We have been metric for a long time in Canada, and I still can't relate to
anything but temperatures! I have no concept of distances in Km, and have to
translate to Imperial. Having owned a watch repair shop, I am ok in a few
hundredths of a MM, but tend to think in thousandths of an inch.

Once when I was given directions to a staff party, the lady said it was 3 Km
past a certain point. I asked "how far is that"?

I am 70 years old, and will probably never fully adapt to metric!


So there you are!


Steve R.

"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...

Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.


We have been metric for a long time in Canada, and I still can't relate to
anything but temperatures! I have no concept of distances in Km, and have to
translate to Imperial. Having owned a watch repair shop, I am ok in a few
hundredths of a MM, but tend to think in thousandths of an inch.

Once when I was given directions to a staff party, the lady said it was 3 Km
past a certain point. I asked "how far is that"?

I am 70 years old, and will probably never fully adapt to metric!


So there you are!


Steve R.

On 11/30/2010 7:14 PM, Steve wrote:


"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...

Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.


We have been metric for a long time in Canada, and I still can't relate
to anything but temperatures! I have no concept of distances in Km, and
have to translate to Imperial. Having owned a watch repair shop, I am ok
in a few hundredths of a MM, but tend to think in thousandths of an inch.

Once when I was given directions to a staff party, the lady said it was
3 Km past a certain point. I asked "how far is that"?

I am 70 years old, and will probably never fully adapt to metric!


So there you are!


Steve R.



I did my engineering trade when Australia was changing from imperial to
metric ,so I was using both systems .Most of the engineering drawings
had the metric dimensions as the main , and the imperial placed in
brackets above the metric ones.

I have both metric and imperial micrometers and depending on the project
and where the idea comes from ,I will follow the easiest route.
My lathes are imperial and my mill is metric.
I don't have any problem using both systems .
I must admit I find the metric system easier to use as there are no
fractional measurements to deal with .

--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."

On Nov 30, 2:07*am, Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
...
How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...
Andrew VK3BFA.

I memorized a few exact and approximate conversions and work out from
them.

The exact ones a
1" = 25.4mm, and 1mm = 0.03937"
1 pound = 453.6Kg, 1Kg = 2.205 Lbs

The US and Britain adopted the 25.400000mm Canadian inch after WW2.

I trained as a chemist and thus use only metric for liquid weights and
volumes. I'm comfortable with both for linear measurement and prefer
US screw threads, especially in aluminum castings.

For rough estimates:
3/16" = 5mm, 5/16"= 8mm, 7/16"=11mm, 9/16=14mm, 3/4" = 19mm, 20mm ~=
0.8".
One micron is 1/25 of 0.001" or 40 microinches, or nearly half of a
division on an indicator that reads to tenths.
25mm = 1", 300mm = 1 Ft = 1 nanosecond = 1GHz
Electricity travels half as fast on a circuit board.
One horse-measuring hand ~= 100mm
3 kilometers ~= 2 miles
1 fortnight ~= 1 million seconds

The rough estimates are good for gently reminding some Ph.D. that I
can't stuff 10 lbs into a 5 lb bag.

jsw

pyotr filipivich wrote:
Andrew VK3BFA on Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:07:18 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Layout in Imperial, convert to Metric at the last.

ABSOLUTELY !!!!!
...lew...

pyotr filipivich wrote:
Andrew VK3BFA on Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:07:18 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Layout in Imperial, convert to Metric at the last.


Skip the conversion?

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

Is it any wonder that the US has resisted the conversion to metric?

At the hardware store, you can't even buy a decent 1 digit thick
2 cubits, 3 palms by 5 cubits, 1 palm, 2-43/64 digits sheet of
plywood anymore.

Those nimrods just stare and smirk as if you've just started
spouting gibberish!

In my day, a cubit was always 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 palms in length.
Well, never more than 37 digits anyway.

Damn straight, Harold.

The sooner we get back to digits and cubits, the better.

--Winston

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
. ..

"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.

Metric sucks, and I don't give a damn about the arguments to the contrary.

Those of us that were groomed to work in the Imperial measuring system
have no issues with how it works. I know what a yard is, as well as I
know what a foot is, or one ten thousandth of an inch, for that matter.

As you alluded, when someone makes mention of a size, I have an instant
visual idea of it's general size. Not so with metric, which I must
convert to Imperial in order to get a perspective.

Is it any wonder that the US has resisted the conversion to metric?

Harold



I much prefer to express my van's fuel economy in "Furlongs per Hogshead".

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.

Metric sucks, and I don't give a damn about the arguments to the contrary.

Those of us that were groomed to work in the Imperial measuring system have
no issues with how it works. I know what a yard is, as well as I know what
a foot is, or one ten thousandth of an inch, for that matter.

As you alluded, when someone makes mention of a size, I have an instant
visual idea of it's general size. Not so with metric, which I must convert
to Imperial in order to get a perspective.

Is it any wonder that the US has resisted the conversion to metric?

Harold

I can visualize metric up to about 9mm or so... after than I have to
convert to imperial to visualize.

"Kevin(Bluey)" wrote:

I must admit I find the metric system easier to use as there are no
fractional measurements to deal with .

Why do you need fractions? I just work in decimal inches, rounded off to
an appropriate number of places based on what I'm doing and the accuracy
of the machine.

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 10:09:07 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


"Kevin(Bluey)" wrote:

I must admit I find the metric system easier to use as there are no
fractional measurements to deal with .

Why do you need fractions? I just work in decimal inches, rounded off to
an appropriate number of places based on what I'm doing and the accuracy
of the machine.

Y'see, when Kev is laying out his metalwork with the tape measure...

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

On Nov 30, 10:35*am, Winston wrote:
..
At the hardware store, you can't even buy a decent 1 digit thick
2 cubits, 3 palms by 5 cubits, 1 palm, 2-43/64 digits sheet of
plywood anymore.

Those nimrods just stare and smirk as if you've just started
spouting gibberish!
...
--Winston

That's better than showing you the Italian cubit gesture.

On 11/29/2010 11:07 PM, Andrew VK3BFA wrote:

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...


Well, being here still, for now I convert all metric dimensions to inch.
Toward my eventual relocation, I'm replacing as many of my micrometers
with digital for the inch/mm capability. And looking for such items as
metric scales for my Starrett combination square, etc etc etc. I have a
full set of inch 5C collets, and metric in full mm increments. I'll be
bringing over as much inch materials as I can justify. But am sorta
dreading the unavoidable fact that I'm going to be dealing with two
systems of measurement for a long time to come.

I am just sorta getting a handle on metric threads, a lot of what I do
for one customer is metric. But in terms of linear dimensions, I think
in inches and generally still have to look at a conversion chart. If
nothing else, just to make sure my general idea of a linear metric
dimension is really what I think it is.

Jon

On 11/29/2010 11:59 PM, Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

Is it any wonder that the US has resisted the conversion to metric?

Only with partial success, at least in the automotive world. My Escort
is a mix of inch and metric, and there's a gray area where I am not sure
which I'm going to encounter.

Something I found humorous in Australia... First thing I did at a large
store (Big W), I checked out the hardware section. I was rather amused
to find what I knew to be a 1/4-20 bolt approx 1" long as "1/4 x 30mm".

I stopped by an engineering supply company (more or less the equivalent
of MSC) in Wagga Wagga, and was surprised to find a decent selection of
nice quality inch taps in stock. Talking to one of the salesmen, they
stock a decent selection of inch taps, as well as inch hardware, and
what they don't have in stock can be ordered. So even in a supposedly
metric country, Imperial hardware survives.


Jon

On 11/29/2010 11:07 PM, Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.

I remember that 10mm is very close to four inches, and go from there.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 10:47:45 -0500, "Tom Gardner" wrote:


"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.

Metric sucks, and I don't give a damn about the arguments to the contrary.

Those of us that were groomed to work in the Imperial measuring system
have no issues with how it works. I know what a yard is, as well as I
know what a foot is, or one ten thousandth of an inch, for that matter.

As you alluded, when someone makes mention of a size, I have an instant
visual idea of it's general size. Not so with metric, which I must
convert to Imperial in order to get a perspective.

Is it any wonder that the US has resisted the conversion to metric?

Harold



I much prefer to express my van's fuel economy in "Furlongs per Hogshead".


How many firkins in a butt? 14, or 2 hogsheads.

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 10:31:46 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On 11/29/2010 11:07 PM, Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.

I remember that 10mm is very close to four inches, and go from there.

cm.

Andrew VK3BFA wrote:

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

I've gotten to the point where I do even trivial
stuff on Alibre. It can go back and forth from
imperial to metric with a couple of mouse clicks.

Winston on Tue, 30 Nov 2010 07:35:57 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

Is it any wonder that the US has resisted the conversion to metric?

At the hardware store, you can't even buy a decent 1 digit thick
2 cubits, 3 palms by 5 cubits, 1 palm, 2-43/64 digits sheet of
plywood anymore.

You an those new fanged "Arabic numbers". In my day that would
have been I digit by II cubits and III palms by V cubits I palm and II
and XXXXIII of LXIIII."

Those nimrods just stare and smirk as if you've just started
spouting gibberish!

In my day, a cubit was always 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 palms in length.
Well, never more than 37 digits anyway.

Damn straight, Harold.

The sooner we get back to digits and cubits, the better.

Spans, man, spans.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

CaveLamb on Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:08:35 -0600
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Andrew VK3BFA on Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:07:18 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Layout in Imperial, convert to Metric at the last.


Skip the conversion?

If you can, then do so.

The problem that the OP had is trying to "visualize" how big a
sheet of metal is, when the numbers are expressing in System
International (aka Metric). If you "grow up" with one system, it is
often hard to visualize the other "new" system. We in the US know how
big a 3 foot by 5 foot thing is, but a 1 meter by 1.5 thing is 'how
big???" (Answer: pretty much the same size).
It is an experience thing.

Like watching me paw through the tool bag, with the mix of metric
and standard wrenches.


tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Jon Anderson on Tue, 30 Nov 2010 10:10:31
-0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 11/29/2010 11:59 PM, Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

Is it any wonder that the US has resisted the conversion to metric?

Only with partial success, at least in the automotive world. My Escort
is a mix of inch and metric, and there's a gray area where I am not sure
which I'm going to encounter.

Something I found humorous in Australia... First thing I did at a large
store (Big W), I checked out the hardware section. I was rather amused
to find what I knew to be a 1/4-20 bolt approx 1" long as "1/4 x 30mm".

I stopped by an engineering supply company (more or less the equivalent
of MSC) in Wagga Wagga, and was surprised to find a decent selection of
nice quality inch taps in stock. Talking to one of the salesmen, they
stock a decent selection of inch taps, as well as inch hardware, and
what they don't have in stock can be ordered. So even in a supposedly
metric country, Imperial hardware survives.

The hardware survives. To fix it, you need the Imperial nuts,
bolts and dinguses.


Jon
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On 11/30/2010 10:54 AM, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 10:31:46 -0800, Tim
wrote:

On 11/29/2010 11:07 PM, Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.

I remember that 10mm is very close to four inches, and go from there.

cm.

I also make the occasional factor of ten error...

When I'm doing engineering calculations I get everything into metric,
and go from there. This probably has a lot to do with the fact that
most times I'm doing electrical power conversion stuff, and Volts, Amps,
Watts, etc., are all native metric quantities (there are native-English
measures of all of these, too, which used to be common -- argh!). So
it's natural to have all my distances, forces, torques, etc., in metric,
too, as most of the conversion factors then become 1. And it's _easy_
to multiply or divide by 1.
--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...


Order your parts with inch dimensions, and let the shop convert the
units if they have to or let them assign the experienced guy to make
the part because he understands inches.

When I got a drawing that was in metric, I did several things to make
the part. First I would convert each metric dimension to inches,
(Often I found that the part was designed in inches originally given
the way the conversions came out.) and then if I was the one that
would be making the mold, I would then calculate the shrink for the
plastic so I knew how much bigger to make the mold. I would draw a
pencil line through the metric dimension, yellow highlight the inch
(part) dimensions and blue highlight the mold dimensions.

For the times when we had a aluminum casting made, the pattern maker
would have to additionally calculate the shrink rate of the aluminum
and the plastic so the final casting would come out correctly.
(Note: this was at a plastic vacuum forming shop.)

Roger Shoaf

pyotr filipivich wrote:
Winston on Tue, 30 Nov 2010 07:35:57 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

Is it any wonder that the US has resisted the conversion to metric?

At the hardware store, you can't even buy a decent 1 digit thick
2 cubits, 3 palms by 5 cubits, 1 palm, 2-43/64 digits sheet of
plywood anymore.

You an those new fanged "Arabic numbers". In my day that would
have been I digit by II cubits and III palms by V cubits I palm and II
and XXXXIII of LXIIII."

The Roman empire collapsed because, lacking a zero, they had no way to
indicate successful completion of their "C" programs. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

Jon Anderson wrote:
On 11/29/2010 11:59 PM, Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

Is it any wonder that the US has resisted the conversion to metric?

Only with partial success, at least in the automotive world. My Escort
is a mix of inch and metric, and there's a gray area where I am not sure
which I'm going to encounter.

Something I found humorous in Australia... First thing I did at a large
store (Big W), I checked out the hardware section. I was rather amused
to find what I knew to be a 1/4-20 bolt approx 1" long as "1/4 x 30mm".

I stopped by an engineering supply company (more or less the equivalent
of MSC) in Wagga Wagga, and was surprised to find a decent selection of
nice quality inch taps in stock. Talking to one of the salesmen, they
stock a decent selection of inch taps, as well as inch hardware, and
what they don't have in stock can be ordered. So even in a supposedly
metric country, Imperial hardware survives.

By "imperial," you mean natural units, right? Like the inch, foot, and
so on? ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On 11/30/2010 01:59 AM, Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

Metric sucks, and I don't give a damn about the arguments to the contrary.

Those of us that were groomed to work in the Imperial measuring system
have no issues with how it works. I know what a yard is, as well as I
know what a foot is, or one ten thousandth of an inch, for that matter.

As you alluded, when someone makes mention of a size, I have an instant
visual idea of it's general size. Not so with metric, which I must
convert to Imperial in order to get a perspective.

Is it any wonder that the US has resisted the conversion to metric?
Well, a few years ago I bought a pick and place machine. It came in set
for metric units, although there was a software setting to convert to
inch units. I was a little worried that all the internal offsets and
alignments might not automatically convert, so I left it as it was.
So, my mill and lathe are imperial, although I could work in either
system on the CNC mill. Anyway, the only measuring instrument I have
that does metric is an electronic caliper. I have never had any real
problem using this machine in the metric system. I have to measure the
dimensions of boards in mm to compute offsets for the machine when it
loads them against its internal stops. Once in a while the coordinate
numbers don't look right, and I use the electronic caliper to measure
the spot on the board. So, really, it was SURPRISINGLY easy to just use
mm on this machine with no particular training, re-thinking, etc.
I am now convinced I made a good choice to leave it in metric, as the
whole electronics industry has gone totally metric.

I don't, by default, think in metric, but it just isn't that hard to me
to jump back and forth. (Never tried measuring my HOUSE in mm, though!)
Also, because I support CNC users in a bunch of countries, they all use
mm, so I have to translate to speak their language.

Jon

"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Snip

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.

Good God Andrew! How old are you? I've been in Australia since 1973, and I
now find the imperial system a right pain. I volunteer at Scienceworks, and
of course most of the stuff we resurrect is originally Imperial
measurements. I find that I have to stop and think twice every time I do any
machining

Rich Grise wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:

(...)

You an those new fanged "Arabic numbers". In my day that would
have been I digit by II cubits and III palms by V cubits I palm and II
and XXXXIII of LXIIII."

....'II and XLIII of LXIV', yes?

I agree. Much more intuitive.

The Roman empire collapsed because, lacking a zero, they had no way to
indicate successful completion of their "C" programs. ;-)

(Ooof!)

The Romans invented vi then?

--Winston -- Searched in vain for the 'six editor'.

Andrew VK3BFA wrote:

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...


I was taught, a lot time ago, to think in your head about what calculation seemed
reasonable and when the results differed, go over my calculations again.

I convert all metric to imperial to stay sane.

Wes

Jon Anderson wrote:

Is it any wonder that the US has resisted the conversion to metric?

Only with partial success, at least in the automotive world. My Escort
is a mix of inch and metric, and there's a gray area where I am not sure
which I'm going to encounter.

That is such an irriation. I maintain automated assembly cells that *should* be metric
since that is a company standard but keep running into imperial stuff. It means I need to
grab double the amount of tools to work on it and what ever fitting I bring will be wrong.

And just to finish off, 25.4 mm x 254 mm is not a metric measurement imho.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:
Metric sucks, and I don't give a damn about the arguments to the contrary.

Those of us that were groomed to work in the Imperial measuring system have
no issues with how it works.

Not true; I get confused with measuring tapes that give feet and
inches
instead of just inches. It's easier to use the millimeter scale.

There's some kind of secret organization that has been advertising
a decalibration of the cup, they have some wacky idea about making
a pair of different units, It's VITAL that this activity be
suppressed,
lest my reliable 236.6 ml measuring instruments be made into
a new source of confusion!

Get the NIST after that bunch of scoundrels, quickest! It was
something to do with "two cup sizes" and the organization was
called "Victoria's Secret"...

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 10:31:46 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On 11/29/2010 11:07 PM, Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
Bloody metric measurements - great system, couldn't and wouldn't argue
against it. But.....

Consider this scenario, good people. Ducted heating furnace in the
roof was having a good go at coming through the ceiling (being a
skilled metalworker, and a RCM lurker, I knew straightaway something
was wrong..) Turned out to be crappy install job, vis
1.Vent pipe not sealed properly (so it leaked)
2.Was sitting on a sheet of particle board crap stuff so it rotted
through
3.No drip tray set up for stuff ups.

So. Decided to get a drip tray made, its a metric world, so did it all
in Metric so as to give the order for the tray to the local plumbing
supply place. Measured L by B, added 10mm each side for the folded
lip, and put the order in. Picked it up, thought "Mmmm..."

Seems I had stuffed up the decimal point in my metric calculations -
was 200mm wider than required (length was stuffed too, but that was OK
- was room up in the roof cavity) so, couldnt get the ******* up
through the access hatch into the roof. So, had to cut it down - heaps
of work...

The Moral - I cant think in Metric, cant visualise in Metric, cant
look at metric measurements and think "nah, no way - too wide/long/
narrow thick etc etc"

How you guys cope - bloody sick of doing this...

Andrew VK3BFA.

I remember that 10mm is very close to four inches, and go from there.

Um, since an 11mm wrench is almost always interchangeable with a 7/16"
wrench, methinks you have a faulty keyboard there, Tim.

I'm becoming used to using metric numbers from my tape measures
nowadays. I seem to make fewer inch-different mistakes.

--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck

Winston wrote:
Rich Grise wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:

(...)

You an those new fanged "Arabic numbers". In my day that would
have been I digit by II cubits and III palms by V cubits I palm and II
and XXXXIII of LXIIII."

...'II and XLIII of LXIV', yes?

I agree. Much more intuitive.

The Roman empire collapsed because, lacking a zero, they had no way to
indicate successful completion of their "C" programs. ;-)

(Ooof!)

The Romans invented vi then?

--Winston -- Searched in vain for the 'six editor'.

*groan* ;-)

Touche!
Rich

On Nov 30, 8:06*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
...
I remember that 10mm is very close to four inches, and go from there.

Um, since an 11mm wrench is almost always interchangeable with a 7/16"
wrench, methinks you have a faulty keyboard there, Tim.
..

I dismissed it as a typo from using a keyboard spaced 19mm instead of
3/4".

jsw, watching Lea Michelle channel Patti Lupone

Some education is needed. I cringe when the kid at the store offers me
"Six dee" nails.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

Is it any wonder that the US has resisted the conversion to metric?

At the hardware store, you can't even buy a decent 1 digit thick
2 cubits, 3 palms by 5 cubits, 1 palm, 2-43/64 digits sheet of
plywood anymore.

Those nimrods just stare and smirk as if you've just started
spouting gibberish!

In my day, a cubit was always 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 palms in length.
Well, never more than 37 digits anyway.

Damn straight, Harold.

The sooner we get back to digits and cubits, the better.

--Winston