In case no-one noticed my attempt to hijack the 10EE motor thread, does
anyone have or know where I can get a service / repair manual or schematic
for the ABB ACS-301-4P9-3 VFD? I have it up and working (spins the drive,
speed control and fwd/rev work) but DHL managed to drop it (from quite a
height) in transit and there's no DC to the control/programming panel so I
can't get in and set the various motor and braking parameters... The control
board (not the programming panel, the top board in the main unit) is all
surface-mount and multi-layer, and is going to be a sod to trace, although
no so hard to add a few repair jumper-wires if I can find what's broken and
where.

I've tried ABB's UK distributors, their answer was "we don't keep
spares/manuals/schematics for anything that old so buy a new one"!

I'd rather not, as it's oldish and so has been easily hacked to fool it into
thinking it has 415V in and thus it can run the Difficult Motor in my
Holbrook (England's Monarch?) C13 - 415v only, 3-phase, 3 sets of windings
for the 3 speeds - and, of course, I'm cheap and broke

Thanks all,
Dave H.
--
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men" -
Douglas Bader

On 2010-11-07, Dave H. wrote:
In case no-one noticed my attempt to hijack the 10EE motor thread, does
anyone have or know where I can get a service / repair manual or schematic
for the ABB ACS-301-4P9-3 VFD?

I noticed -- but I can't help, so I stayed quite.

That may have been the case for many others.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote...

I noticed -- but I can't help, so I stayed quite.

That may have been the case for many others.

Good Luck,
DoN.


Oh well, no alternative, it'll have to be out with the stereo 'scope and
soldering iron... Rats!

Fortunately it can't be much as everything else works, I suspect a component
cracked / solder joint parted with the several G's of deceleration...
Possibly where the programmer plugs into the board

Thanks anyhow,
Dave H.
--
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men" -
Douglas Bader

I suspect that service manuals for this type of industrial equipment may
only be available to authorized service centers.

It's possible that any used VFD may have had a fault before it was subjected
to mechanical shock, so the fault may now be a combination of faults.

Milti-layer boards such as computer motherboards are more difficult to find
cracks on, but double-sided single layer boards are fairly easily inspected
with a bright light source behind the board.. a high brightness LED may work
well, but a high powered LED (not just numerous HB types) will definitely
work.

General close inspection procedures follow, and a good magnifier lamp is
very helpful. A quality handheld magnifier may be sufficient with
exceptionally good lighting (not just glare into your eyes).

The heavier objects in the unit are most susceptable to mechanical shock
damage. Production soldering techniques may be fairly good in industrial
equipment, but minor defects may still get passed over in testing/burn-in
phases.

Typical procedures generally involve disassembly and reseating of all
internal connectors, and checking for loose hardware.

Paper and notes can be critical to proper re-assembly. Some folks use
digital cameras to record details.

If trouble spots aren't found with the previous steps, circuit
troubleshooting often involves checking various circuit paths in the unit
without power applied, typically making schematic drawings and educated
guesses along the way.

Much of the electronic equipment manufactured in recent years fails without
any obvious signs to be spotted on a casual visual inspection.. many of the
"smart machines" designed recently just fail to operate when component
faults arise.

--
WB
..........


"Dave H." wrote in message
...
In case no-one noticed my attempt to hijack the 10EE motor thread, does
anyone have or know where I can get a service / repair manual or schematic
for the ABB ACS-301-4P9-3 VFD? I have it up and working (spins the drive,
speed control and fwd/rev work) but DHL managed to drop it (from quite a
height) in transit and there's no DC to the control/programming panel so I
can't get in and set the various motor and braking parameters... The
control board (not the programming panel, the top board in the main unit)
is all surface-mount and multi-layer, and is going to be a sod to trace,
although no so hard to add a few repair jumper-wires if I can find what's
broken and where.

I've tried ABB's UK distributors, their answer was "we don't keep
spares/manuals/schematics for anything that old so buy a new one"!

I'd rather not, as it's oldish and so has been easily hacked to fool it
into thinking it has 415V in and thus it can run the Difficult Motor in my
Holbrook (England's Monarch?) C13 - 415v only, 3-phase, 3 sets of windings
for the 3 speeds - and, of course, I'm cheap and broke

Thanks all,
Dave H.
--
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men" -
Douglas Bader

"Wild_Bill" wrote...
I suspect that service manuals for this type of industrial equipment may
only be available to authorized service centers.

Hence asking on the group, never know what pirated materials folks have


It's possible that any used VFD may have had a fault before it was
subjected to mechanical shock, so the fault may now be a combination of
faults.


Well, I saw it working (admittedly driving an A/C fan installation with a
4HP motor, not on a lathe) before I bought, and it was all OK then...

Multi-layer boards such as computer motherboards are more difficult to
find cracks on, but double-sided single layer boards are fairly easily
inspected with a bright light source behind the board.. a high brightness
LED may work well, but a high powered LED (not just numerous HB types)
will definitely work.
General close inspection procedures follow, and a good magnifier lamp is
very helpful. A quality handheld magnifier may be sufficient with
exceptionally good lighting (not just glare into your eyes).

Yup, I usually use a 20W halogen desklamp or two behind the board and my
trusty stereo 'scope if investigating SMT boards - my old eyes ain't what
they was!


The heavier objects in the unit are most susceptable to mechanical shock
damage. Production soldering techniques may be fairly good in industrial
equipment, but minor defects may still get passed over in testing/burn-in
phases.

Typical procedures generally involve disassembly and reseating of all
internal connectors, and checking for loose hardware.

Done all that, the ABBs are pretty ruggedly constructed generally
(diecast-alloy chassis, sturdy standoffs and big screws for the boards
etc.) - I suspect there may be cracking or a short in the solder / PCB
tracks behind the connector for the programming panel (a surface-mount RJ12
jack) as that would have taken quite a knock when it was dropped - the rest
of it benefitted from the ABS case "crumple zone"... Luckily I can hide it
inside the machine base out of reach of swarf and inquisitive fingers and
mount the programming panel remotely on the end of a cable - and the case
glued / fibreglassed back together well, despite being a 200-piece jigsaw
puzzle.


Paper and notes can be critical to proper re-assembly. Some folks use
digital cameras to record details.

Pretty easy really - chassis/heatsink with flyleads from the power devices,
two stacked boards with captive connectors, a few mutually-exclusive ribbon
connectors, can't go wrong


If trouble spots aren't found with the previous steps, circuit
troubleshooting often involves checking various circuit paths in the unit
without power applied, typically making schematic drawings and educated
guesses along the way.


What I suspect is that a minor component or three (with tiny, obscure SMD
part numbers on) in the supply to the panel may have popped due to a short
developed by the physical damage - this is where a schematic would be really
handy! Having a bench supply handy, I powered the control panel and all
appears well - the LCD display (newly replaced, original was cracked in
transit...) comes up complaining of lost comm's to the VFD, button-presses
produce TTL-level data on the serial output etc.

Much of the electronic equipment manufactured in recent years fails
without any obvious signs to be spotted on a casual visual inspection..
many of the "smart machines" designed recently just fail to operate when
component faults arise.


Well, at least it was working *before* it was drop-tested! It still powers
up, spins a motor, speeds up and slows down, starts stops and reverses etc.,
gives a nice friendly green status light, so it looks like the power to the
programming/display panel's all that's knackered The panel was an
optional extra, so it works at (presumably) factory default settings without
it - I just want to change a few of those settings!

Looks like tomorrow's free time, such as it is, will be allocated to some
serious squinting and head-scratching...

Dave H.
--
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men" -
Douglas Bader

Dave, first things first, did you call Allen Bradley?

i

Ignoramus32694 wrote:
Dave, first things first, did you call Allen Bradley?

i

Sounds like you're confusing Allen Bradley with ABB (Asea Brown Boveri)
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABB_Group

On Tue, 09 Nov 2010 20:58:24 -0600, Ignoramus32694
wrote:

Dave, first things first, did you call Allen Bradley?

i

AB is Allen Bradley. ABB is a swedish outfit.

Pete Keillor

On 2010-11-10, David Billington wrote:
Ignoramus32694 wrote:
Dave, first things first, did you call Allen Bradley?

i

Sounds like you're confusing Allen Bradley with ABB (Asea Brown Boveri)
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABB_Group

My apologies!

i

On 2010-11-10, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Tue, 09 Nov 2010 20:58:24 -0600, Ignoramus32694
wrote:

Dave, first things first, did you call Allen Bradley?

i

AB is Allen Bradley. ABB is a swedish outfit.

Pete Keillor

OK, sorry. You guys piqued my interest.

Isn't this the manual?

http://96.61.63.50/techlib/ABB/ABB_A...ers_Manual.pdf
http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/ABB-3...ive-Manual.pdf

On page 13 it has an explanation of model numbers and shows ACS 301.

Dave's ACS 301 4P9 means 5 HP with internal RF filter wall mounted.

i

On 2010-11-10, Ignoramus16525 wrote:
On 2010-11-10, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Tue, 09 Nov 2010 20:58:24 -0600, Ignoramus32694
wrote:

Dave, first things first, did you call Allen Bradley?

i

AB is Allen Bradley. ABB is a swedish outfit.

Pete Keillor

OK, sorry. You guys piqued my interest.

Isn't this the manual?

http://96.61.63.50/techlib/ABB/ABB_A...ers_Manual.pdf
http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/ABB-3...ive-Manual.pdf

On page 13 it has an explanation of model numbers and shows ACS 301.

Dave's ACS 301 4P9 means 5 HP with internal RF filter wall mounted.

i

Sorry, I now realize that Dave wanted a repair manual!

i

Pete Keillor wrote:

On Tue, 09 Nov 2010 20:58:24 -0600, Ignoramus32694
wrote:

Dave, first things first, did you call Allen Bradley?

i

AB is Allen Bradley. ABB is a swedish outfit.


ABB has a factory near here that makes water meters.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

"Ignoramus16525" wrote...


OK, sorry. You guys piqued my interest.

Isn't this the manual?

http://96.61.63.50/techlib/ABB/ABB_A...ers_Manual.pdf
http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/ABB-3...ive-Manual.pdf

On page 13 it has an explanation of model numbers and shows ACS 301.

Dave's ACS 301 4P9 means 5 HP with internal RF filter wall mounted.

i

Sorry, I now realize that Dave wanted a repair manual!

i


Thanks anyway Iggy, but I have that one! My old deflicted eyes have a hard
time with surface mount boards, hence the longing for a schematic...

Anyone who needs 3HP of 415V(ish) from their 220/240V single-phase supply
can use one of these for the job, just be sure you choose one you can derate
30% or so - easy hack, ask me how if you'd like to know!

Dave H.
--
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men" -
Douglas Bader

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote...

AB is Allen Bradley. ABB is a swedish outfit.


ABB has a factory near here that makes water meters.



They have factories everywhere it seems, perhaps from buying up smaller
outfits? I think the head office is in Switzerland, probably for tax reasons
as I assume it'd be a bit expensive to manufacture the stuff there!

Dave H.
--
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men" -
Douglas Bader

Dave H. wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote...

AB is Allen Bradley. ABB is a swedish outfit.

ABB has a factory near here that makes water meters.




They have factories everywhere it seems, perhaps from buying up smaller
outfits? I think the head office is in Switzerland, probably for tax reasons
as I assume it'd be a bit expensive to manufacture the stuff there!

Dave H.

Dave,

Have a look here for some background
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABB_Group . ASEA were Swedish, and Brown
Boveri and Cle were Swiss so I guess the just stayed largely where they
were.

The corporate affairs is interesting as the purchase of US company
Combustion Engineering almost bankrupted them because of asbestos
liabilities, I wonder if they turned that up in due diligence prior to
purchase.

"Dave H." wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote...

AB is Allen Bradley. ABB is a swedish outfit.


ABB has a factory near here that makes water meters.



They have factories everywhere it seems, perhaps from buying up smaller
outfits? I think the head office is in Switzerland, probably for tax reasons
as I assume it'd be a bit expensive to manufacture the stuff there!


A lot of them operate under other names, but include ABB.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.