I went to get some fluorescent light bulbs for my new light box. No that I
am in any way an eco-bigot but I wanted the daylight spectrum and more
lumens per watt so I can use my existing fixtures.

On $12.99 box I was charged a $0.50 "eco-fee"!

Now how does it make sense to tax these things additionally when the good
old incandescent bulbs do not carry this fee (or so they told me)? I though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Michael Koblic" fired this volley in
:

I though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

Yes! We save polar bears. But we kill babies' brains with the mercury
in the new CFLs. It's a fair trade, after all -- at least according to
the "greenies". It's the "standard offer": Pay more, pay an additional
"impact" fee FOR paying more, and get less product life and environmental
damages, to boot. (don't ever let them convince you that consumer-
quality CFLs last longer than incandescents)

Wait! I thought these things were supposed to SAVE the environment!
Oh... yeah... save CO2, add Hg. That sounds fair.

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Michael Koblic" fired this volley in
:

I though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

Yes! We save polar bears. But we kill babies' brains with the
mercury in the new CFLs. It's a fair trade, after all -- at least
according to the "greenies". It's the "standard offer": Pay more,
pay an additional "impact" fee FOR paying more, and get less product
life and environmental damages, to boot. (don't ever let them
convince you that consumer- quality CFLs last longer than
incandescents)

Wait! I thought these things were supposed to SAVE the environment!
Oh... yeah... save CO2, add Hg. That sounds fair.

LLoyd

"Follow the money."

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 17:52:19 -0700, Michael Koblic wrote:

I went to get some fluorescent light bulbs for my new light box. No that I
am in any way an eco-bigot but I wanted the daylight spectrum and more
lumens per watt so I can use my existing fixtures.

On $12.99 box I was charged a $0.50 "eco-fee"!

Now how does it make sense to tax these things additionally when the good
old incandescent bulbs do not carry this fee (or so they told me)? I
though we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

It's the metastasizing cancer of the Church of Warmingism. Oh, wait -
Climate Changeism. Oh, wait - Global Climate Disruption - who knows?
They just know that if they can extract all of your money out of your
pocketbook and pour it into theirs, that The World Will Be Saved.

They have The Faith, you see.

Thanks,
Rich

On Oct 9, 8:52*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
I went to get some fluorescent light bulbs for my new light box. No that I
am in any way an eco-bigot but I wanted the daylight spectrum and more
lumens per watt so I can use my existing fixtures.

On $12.99 box I was charged a $0.50 "eco-fee"!

Now how does it make sense to tax these things additionally when the good
old incandescent bulbs do not carry this fee (or so they told me)? I though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Who charged the fee? The store, the manufacturer, the local govt, the
state govt, the federal govt? I have been fighting in my town with the
environmental committee (a joke) and the DPW (a perhaps bigger joke)
to put in place a proper program fro recycling fluorescent bulbs.
There's no question that they are more energy effecient than
incandecants, but without proper recycling, the're sort of like
choosing your poison.

If that "eco-fee" was going towards a recycling program, I'd have no
problem paying it, but I'd sure want to know about it. I went to a
county-wide toxic waste collection event (a semi-annual affair around
here). They were collecting literally tons of parially-used paint
cans, insecticide containers and what have you, but there was only a
small pile of fluorescent tubes. I expect that the rest of the tubes
went out in people's garbage. To be effective, recycling has to be
convenient and it has to be enforced.

In New York City, you are subject to rather hefty fines if the garbage
man finds recyclables in your garbage bags.

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Oct 9, 8:52 pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
I went to get some fluorescent light bulbs for my new light box. No that
I
am in any way an eco-bigot but I wanted the daylight spectrum and more
lumens per watt so I can use my existing fixtures.

On $12.99 box I was charged a $0.50 "eco-fee"!

Now how does it make sense to tax these things additionally when the good
old incandescent bulbs do not carry this fee (or so they told me)? I
though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Who charged the fee? The store, the manufacturer, the local govt, the
state govt, the federal govt? I have been fighting in my town with the
environmental committee (a joke) and the DPW (a perhaps bigger joke)
to put in place a proper program fro recycling fluorescent bulbs.
There's no question that they are more energy effecient than
incandecants, but without proper recycling, the're sort of like
choosing your poison.

If that "eco-fee" was going towards a recycling program, I'd have no
problem paying it, but I'd sure want to know about it. I went to a
county-wide toxic waste collection event (a semi-annual affair around
here). They were collecting literally tons of parially-used paint
cans, insecticide containers and what have you, but there was only a
small pile of fluorescent tubes. I expect that the rest of the tubes
went out in people's garbage. To be effective, recycling has to be
convenient and it has to be enforced.

In New York City, you are subject to rather hefty fines if the garbage
man finds recyclables in your garbage bags.

1) The fee is charged by the provincial government. The recent changes in
taxes in our province are quite revealing: The taxes on alcohol went down
(our premier is an alcoholic). The taxes on using sports centres, safety
equipment and few others went up. It is clear that our provincial government
says one thing but means another.
2) Yes, lumen for lumen the CFLs are more energy efficient. However...
3) What is a total cost of this? How much does "proper recycling" cost? Are
we going to see it in this economy? Are we going to see it in our community?
4) The addition of mercury to the environment is apparently significant in
an area *not* served by a coal-burning power plant.
5) According to Wikipedia (I know!) there is actually an increase in
greenhouse gas output associated with using CFLs in cold-climate regions.
Something to do with having to make up the heat produced by the incandescent
light bulbs by other heating sources. That study came from BC!
6) The longevity of CFLs is also contested: Some say that the light output
of the CFL drops by as much as 40% over its life-time and the decrease is
*exponential*. I for one am not taking chances: If the fixture took a 60W
bulb before, I smack in a 23W CFL. Nobody has yet explained how this would
be unsafe and if a 40% drop does occur, well, I am in the same ball park I
was before.
7) Add to all of it the dangers of clean-up when breakage occurs, "unsafe
modes of failure" (whatever that means, I gather some were actually causing
house fires), inability to use them in certain applications and the fact
that with eco fees the cost approaches 4 times that of incandescent bulb of
similar luminescence I am not surprised that their sales dropped in
2007-2008. Not surprising the Euros are legislating.

People know when they are getting screwed.

An addendum to re-cycling: I have no problem with the concept. I was
re-cycling when the word was not yet known. However: Until recently we took
our recyclables to several collection points around town when we had enough
to justify it. It was not a particularly onerous task except for he fact
that the containers were seldom empty, usually overflowing. Then the city
decided on a mandatory blue box program for which they started charging
additional $50+. Thus my recycling cost went up drastically without
affecting my practice in any significant way.

I, too, know when I am being screwed.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Did you vote for Obama and his crowd? All those that did, are causing everybody to pay the price for their stupidity and
ignorance. Your recent lamp experience is just the beginning. Vote correctly and save your country.
Steve

"Michael Koblic" wrote in message ...
I went to get some fluorescent light bulbs for my new light box. No that I am in any way an eco-bigot but I wanted the daylight
spectrum and more lumens per watt so I can use my existing fixtures.

On $12.99 box I was charged a $0.50 "eco-fee"!

Now how does it make sense to tax these things additionally when the good old incandescent bulbs do not carry this fee (or so
they told me)? I though we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Did you vote for Obama and his crowd? All those that did, are causing
everybody to pay the price for their stupidity and ignorance. Your recent
lamp experience is just the beginning. Vote correctly and save your
country.
Steve

I would love to vote in your presidential election. I am sure you agree that
such an important decision should not be left to Americans alone...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 22:10:20 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:

In New York City, you are subject to rather hefty fines if the garbage man
finds recyclables in your garbage bags.

You know government's getting entirely out of hand when there are garbage
police.

?
"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...

I, too, know when I am being screwed.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Are you ready for smart meters and time-of-use rates ?

Best Regards
Tom.

On Oct 10, 2:58*am, Rich Grise wrote:
On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 22:10:20 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:

In New York City, you are subject to rather hefty fines if the garbage man
finds recyclables in your garbage bags.

You know government's getting entirely out of hand when there are garbage
police.

You know that people are getting out out of hand when they are so
****ing stupid that they NEED garbage police to point out to them that
the paper goes in this can, and the plastic goes in that can, and the
glass goes in that can over there. If you're goping to argue that
people shouldn't have to recycle, then this conversation is over.

"Michael Koblic" wrote:

Now how does it make sense to tax these things additionally when the good
old incandescent bulbs do not carry this fee (or so they told me)? I though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

Is it an actually tax or a made up fee? My propane bill comes with a hazardous material
fee which I would think would just be a cost of doing business but honesty in pricing well
that is a thing of the past.

Wes

--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 20:02:34 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Michael Koblic" fired this volley in
:

I though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

Yes! We save polar bears. But we kill babies' brains with the mercury
in the new CFLs. It's a fair trade, after all -- at least according to
the "greenies". It's the "standard offer": Pay more, pay an additional
"impact" fee FOR paying more, and get less product life and environmental
damages, to boot. (don't ever let them convince you that consumer-
quality CFLs last longer than incandescents)

Wait! I thought these things were supposed to SAVE the environment!
Oh... yeah... save CO2, add Hg. That sounds fair.

LLoyd

Just yesterday a guy in another newsgroup had one blow and start the
ceiling on fire. They have electrolytics or a capacitor (I don't know
much about electrical stuff) inside, one blew. Luckily he had a
working fire alarm and a fire extinguisher handy and put it out before
it spread through the attic.

If you take the plastic base apart you can see those componants as
well as some pretty crappy soldering work. FWIW, they were a cheap
Chinese made brand.

Newb

On 10/9/2010 8:02 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Michael fired this volley in
:

I though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

Yes! We save polar bears. But we kill babies' brains with the mercury
in the new CFLs. It's a fair trade, after all -- at least according to
the "greenies". It's the "standard offer": Pay more, pay an additional
"impact" fee FOR paying more, and get less product life and environmental
damages, to boot. (don't ever let them convince you that consumer-
quality CFLs last longer than incandescents)

Wait! I thought these things were supposed to SAVE the environment!
Oh... yeah... save CO2, add Hg. That sounds fair.

I used to put a 40 watt incandescent bulb in my porch light and have to
replace it every 2-3 months. It is always left on. I replaced it with a
13 watt CFL and wrote the date on the base. It lasted 23 months. 4 of
the old ones cost a buck, the same as what I paid for the CFL, plus
about 1/3 the wattage used.

I don't like that they have mercury in them, but I don't have to take
many to the recycling yard because they last so long.

David

On 10/10/2010 1:46 AM, Michael Koblic wrote:

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Did you vote for Obama and his crowd? All those that did, are causing
everybody to pay the price for their stupidity and ignorance. Your
recent lamp experience is just the beginning. Vote correctly and save
your country.
Steve

I would love to vote in your presidential election. I am sure you agree
that such an important decision should not be left to Americans alone...

? Canada is no longer part of America? Has it moved to another
continent, or just cast itself adrift?

Maybe we can get Mexico to do the same!

David

On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 04:56:27 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:
On Oct 10, 2:58*am, Rich Grise wrote:
On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 22:10:20 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:

In New York City, you are subject to rather hefty fines if the garbage
man finds recyclables in your garbage bags.

You know government's getting entirely out of hand when there are
garbage police.

You know that people are getting out out of hand when they are so ****ing
stupid that they NEED garbage police to point out to them that the paper
goes in this can, and the plastic goes in that can, and the glass goes in
that can over there. If you're goping to argue that people shouldn't have
to recycle, then this conversation is over.

If it needs to be enforced by government arms, then it's obviously not
a viable idea from the get-go.

Thanks,
Rich

On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:14:37 -0500, "David R. Birch"
wrote:

On 10/9/2010 8:02 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Michael fired this volley in
:

I though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

Yes! We save polar bears. But we kill babies' brains with the mercury
in the new CFLs. It's a fair trade, after all -- at least according to
the "greenies". It's the "standard offer": Pay more, pay an additional
"impact" fee FOR paying more, and get less product life and environmental
damages, to boot. (don't ever let them convince you that consumer-
quality CFLs last longer than incandescents)

Wait! I thought these things were supposed to SAVE the environment!
Oh... yeah... save CO2, add Hg. That sounds fair.

I used to put a 40 watt incandescent bulb in my porch light and have to
replace it every 2-3 months. It is always left on.

WTF? Why are you _knowingly_ wasting money and contributing to AGWK?
Buy a motion sensor light and feed it a pair of 75W halogens every
several years. Your pocketbook, your neighbors, greenies, and
astronomers everywhere will thank you for it.


I replaced it with a
13 watt CFL and wrote the date on the base. It lasted 23 months. 4 of
the old ones cost a buck, the same as what I paid for the CFL, plus
about 1/3 the wattage used.

I don't like that they have mercury in them, but I don't have to take
many to the recycling yard because they last so long.

There isn't a mercury recycling plant within 250 miles of here. The
one place (Medford, 27 miles each way) which accepts them charges four
bucks apiece to recycle them. CFLs only cost me a buck apiece, and it
would take ten bucks in gas to drive to the recycle station, so FTN! I
recycle everything else, and I'll do fluors when they provide
recycling locally.

--
Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come
alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs
is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman

"David R. Birch" fired this volley in
:

On 10/9/2010 8:02 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Michael fired this volley in
:

I though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

Yes! We save polar bears. But we kill babies' brains with the
mercury in the new CFLs. It's a fair trade, after all -- at least
according to the "greenies". It's the "standard offer": Pay more,
pay an additional "impact" fee FOR paying more, and get less product
life and environmental damages, to boot. (don't ever let them
convince you that consumer- quality CFLs last longer than
incandescents)

Wait! I thought these things were supposed to SAVE the environment!
Oh... yeah... save CO2, add Hg. That sounds fair.

I used to put a 40 watt incandescent bulb in my porch light and have
to replace it every 2-3 months. It is always left on. I replaced it
with a 13 watt CFL and wrote the date on the base. It lasted 23
months. 4 of the old ones cost a buck, the same as what I paid for the
CFL, plus about 1/3 the wattage used.

I don't like that they have mercury in them, but I don't have to take
many to the recycling yard because they last so long.

David


OTOH, David, I've got "globe" 40W CFLs in a bathroom mirror bar. They
last (historically) roughly four months, and have to be replaced -- guess
with WHAT, when we run out of the 12-pack of CFLs we bought for the
fixture.

They're five times the cost of incandescents, and last 1/4 as long.

So... YMMV.

Yes... they're cheap Chinese crap, too. But then, find one that isn't.

LLoyd

On 10/10/2010 8:54 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:14:37 -0500, "David R. Birch"
wrote:

On 10/9/2010 8:02 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Michael fired this volley in
:

I though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

Yes! We save polar bears. But we kill babies' brains with the mercury
in the new CFLs. It's a fair trade, after all -- at least according to
the "greenies". It's the "standard offer": Pay more, pay an additional
"impact" fee FOR paying more, and get less product life and environmental
damages, to boot. (don't ever let them convince you that consumer-
quality CFLs last longer than incandescents)

Wait! I thought these things were supposed to SAVE the environment!
Oh... yeah... save CO2, add Hg. That sounds fair.

I used to put a 40 watt incandescent bulb in my porch light and have to
replace it every 2-3 months. It is always left on.

WTF? Why are you _knowingly_ wasting money and contributing to AGWK?
Buy a motion sensor light and feed it a pair of 75W halogens every
several years. Your pocketbook, your neighbors, greenies, and
astronomers everywhere will thank you for it.

I don't want motion sensors on a light 15 feet from the sidewalk and I
want a light on all night. I looked at some solar sensors to turn it off
during the day, but their wattage was only slightly less than the CFL
and would probably shorten the life of the bulb.


I replaced it with a
13 watt CFL and wrote the date on the base. It lasted 23 months. 4 of
the old ones cost a buck, the same as what I paid for the CFL, plus
about 1/3 the wattage used.

I don't like that they have mercury in them, but I don't have to take
many to the recycling yard because they last so long.

There isn't a mercury recycling plant within 250 miles of here. The
one place (Medford, 27 miles each way) which accepts them charges four
bucks apiece to recycle them. CFLs only cost me a buck apiece, and it
would take ten bucks in gas to drive to the recycle station, so FTN! I
recycle everything else, and I'll do fluors when they provide
recycling locally.

We have it free locally and it's only a minor detour on the way home
from work that I can take twice a year.

David

On 10/10/2010 8:54 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"David R. fired this volley in
:

On 10/9/2010 8:02 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Michael fired this volley in
:

I though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

Yes! We save polar bears. But we kill babies' brains with the
mercury in the new CFLs. It's a fair trade, after all -- at least
according to the "greenies". It's the "standard offer": Pay more,
pay an additional "impact" fee FOR paying more, and get less product
life and environmental damages, to boot. (don't ever let them
convince you that consumer- quality CFLs last longer than
incandescents)

Wait! I thought these things were supposed to SAVE the environment!
Oh... yeah... save CO2, add Hg. That sounds fair.

I used to put a 40 watt incandescent bulb in my porch light and have
to replace it every 2-3 months. It is always left on. I replaced it
with a 13 watt CFL and wrote the date on the base. It lasted 23
months. 4 of the old ones cost a buck, the same as what I paid for the
CFL, plus about 1/3 the wattage used.

I don't like that they have mercury in them, but I don't have to take
many to the recycling yard because they last so long.

David


OTOH, David, I've got "globe" 40W CFLs in a bathroom mirror bar. They
last (historically) roughly four months, and have to be replaced -- guess
with WHAT, when we run out of the 12-pack of CFLs we bought for the
fixture.

I built a similar bar for my bathroom that originally used 3 $2 globe
incandescents that lasted about 5-6 months. I put in $1 13 watt CFLs 3+
years ago and have had to replace one.


They're five times the cost of incandescents, and last 1/4 as long.

So... YMMV.

MMDV!

David

On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 04:56:27 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Oct 10, 2:58*am, Rich Grise wrote:
On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 22:10:20 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:

In New York City, you are subject to rather hefty fines if the garbage man
finds recyclables in your garbage bags.

You know government's getting entirely out of hand when there are garbage
police.

You know that people are getting out out of hand when they are so
****ing stupid that they NEED garbage police to point out to them that
the paper goes in this can, and the plastic goes in that can, and the
glass goes in that can over there. If you're goping to argue that
people shouldn't have to recycle, then this conversation is over.
I can put any furniture that has outlived it's usefulness out for
pickup any collection day and it will be picked up (no appliances, but
they disappear soon anyhow) but let me put out the piece of drywall
that the baker used under my wife's birthday cake and the inspector
riding shotgun on the garbage truck will reject it and possibly every
thing else - I am supposed to take it or any other "construction
material" to a local private recycling facility (gravel pit) and pay
their minimum charge of $20.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 20:54:53 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"David R. Birch" fired this volley in
:

On 10/9/2010 8:02 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Michael fired this volley in
:

I though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

Yes! We save polar bears. But we kill babies' brains with the
mercury in the new CFLs. It's a fair trade, after all -- at least
according to the "greenies". It's the "standard offer": Pay more,
pay an additional "impact" fee FOR paying more, and get less product
life and environmental damages, to boot. (don't ever let them
convince you that consumer- quality CFLs last longer than
incandescents)

Wait! I thought these things were supposed to SAVE the environment!
Oh... yeah... save CO2, add Hg. That sounds fair.

I used to put a 40 watt incandescent bulb in my porch light and have
to replace it every 2-3 months. It is always left on. I replaced it
with a 13 watt CFL and wrote the date on the base. It lasted 23
months. 4 of the old ones cost a buck, the same as what I paid for the
CFL, plus about 1/3 the wattage used.

I don't like that they have mercury in them, but I don't have to take
many to the recycling yard because they last so long.

David


OTOH, David, I've got "globe" 40W CFLs in a bathroom mirror bar. They
last (historically) roughly four months, and have to be replaced -- guess
with WHAT, when we run out of the 12-pack of CFLs we bought for the
fixture.

They're five times the cost of incandescents, and last 1/4 as long.

Are they Feit brand? I had horrible luck with those, but they
replaced them (free) when I bitched. I'm getting 3-5 years on the 23W
(100W replacement) dimmable CFLs from China, ULA brand. $2/ea
delivered via eBay in '06.

And I'm just now starting (2 mos.) to use the Satco brand of 13W
daylight (5000K) and cool white (4100K) types. The daylighters are
nearly as bright as the 23W soft white dimmables, and I love that they
do _not_ put out that amber glow crap which warm/soft-white and incans
do. They're more compact, so they fit in the pole lamps better.

Oh, I'm getting a couple years or more out of the GE 23W CFLs, too.

In electricals, I won't buy Feit or Lights of America (Home Depot) any
more, period.

--
Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come
alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs
is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman

On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:33:40 -0500, "David R. Birch"
wrote:

On 10/10/2010 8:54 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:14:37 -0500, "David R. Birch"
wrote:

On 10/9/2010 8:02 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Michael fired this volley in
:

I though
we were encouraged to buy them to save polar bears or some such!

Yes! We save polar bears. But we kill babies' brains with the mercury
in the new CFLs. It's a fair trade, after all -- at least according to
the "greenies". It's the "standard offer": Pay more, pay an additional
"impact" fee FOR paying more, and get less product life and environmental
damages, to boot. (don't ever let them convince you that consumer-
quality CFLs last longer than incandescents)

Wait! I thought these things were supposed to SAVE the environment!
Oh... yeah... save CO2, add Hg. That sounds fair.

I used to put a 40 watt incandescent bulb in my porch light and have to
replace it every 2-3 months. It is always left on.

WTF? Why are you _knowingly_ wasting money and contributing to AGWK?
Buy a motion sensor light and feed it a pair of 75W halogens every
several years. Your pocketbook, your neighbors, greenies, and
astronomers everywhere will thank you for it.

I don't want motion sensors on a light 15 feet from the sidewalk and I

Why not? They work up to 40'. The one on my driveway proves that. I
had to lower the angle of its view so passing vehicles didn't set it
off at 60' out. It stays on 1 minute and if I'm in the living room, I
look out the window to see what set it off. Birds (cold-blooded, I
don't get it) and cats seem to be the most likely culprits so far, but
I did see a brightly lit skunk once.


want a light on all night.

Why?


I looked at some solar sensors to turn it off
during the day, but their wattage was only slightly less than the CFL

The rating?


and would probably shorten the life of the bulb.

Why do you say that?


I replaced it with a
13 watt CFL and wrote the date on the base. It lasted 23 months. 4 of
the old ones cost a buck, the same as what I paid for the CFL, plus
about 1/3 the wattage used.

I don't like that they have mercury in them, but I don't have to take
many to the recycling yard because they last so long.

There isn't a mercury recycling plant within 250 miles of here. The
one place (Medford, 27 miles each way) which accepts them charges four
bucks apiece to recycle them. CFLs only cost me a buck apiece, and it
would take ten bucks in gas to drive to the recycle station, so FTN! I
recycle everything else, and I'll do fluors when they provide
recycling locally.

We have it free locally and it's only a minor detour on the way home
from work that I can take twice a year.

Cool. I wish there were one here.

--
Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come
alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs
is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

In electricals, I won't buy Feit or Lights of America (Home Depot) any
more, period.

I don't know what brand they are, but I did buy them at the Home Despots.

LLoyd

On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 06:09:59 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:

the window to see what set it off. Birds (cold-blooded, I don't get it)

Part of what you don't get is that birds are warm-blooded.

Cheers!
Rich

Gerald Miller wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Mon, 11 Oct 2010 01:01:12 -0400:

I can put any furniture that has outlived it's usefulness out for
pickup any collection day and it will be picked up (no appliances, but
they disappear soon anyhow) but let me put out the piece of drywall
that the baker used under my wife's birthday cake and the inspector
riding shotgun on the garbage truck will reject it and possibly every
thing else - I am supposed to take it or any other "construction
material" to a local private recycling facility (gravel pit) and pay
their minimum charge of $20.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

I found that it I can get the dump (now transfer station) to take many
things that they say they won't with a few minutes work with a
sawzall. They don't take large appliances, but they will take steel
scrap and electric motors. They won't take furniture, but they will
take wood, cloth, and foam rubber. Etc.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

On 10/11/2010 8:09 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I don't want motion sensors on a light 15 feet from the sidewalk and I

Why not? They work up to 40'. The one on my driveway proves that. I
had to lower the angle of its view so passing vehicles didn't set it
off at 60' out. It stays on 1 minute and if I'm in the living room, I
look out the window to see what set it off. Birds (cold-blooded, I
don't get it) and cats seem to be the most likely culprits so far, but
I did see a brightly lit skunk once.


want a light on all night.

Why?

Security issues, I don't want a light that reacts to perimeter
penetration, I don't want the BG to come close in the first place.


I looked at some solar sensors to turn it off
during the day, but their wattage was only slightly less than the CFL

The rating?

No clue, this was a while ago.


and would probably shorten the life of the bulb.

Why do you say that?

In my experience, lights left on last longer than lights turned on and
off often.

David

On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:46:08 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 06:09:59 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:

the window to see what set it off. Birds (cold-blooded, I don't get it)

Part of what you don't get is that birds are warm-blooded.

Oops, brain fart, corrected.

--
Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come
alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs
is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman

On Oct 11, 8:15*pm, (dan) wrote:
Gerald Miller wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking *on Mon, 11 Oct 2010 01:01:12 -0400:

I can put any furniture that has outlived it's usefulness out for
pickup any collection day and it will be picked up (no appliances, but
they disappear soon anyhow) but let me put out the piece of drywall
that the baker used under my wife's birthday cake and the inspector
riding shotgun on the garbage truck will reject it and possibly every
thing else - I am supposed to take it or any other "construction
material" to a local private recycling facility (gravel pit) and pay
their minimum charge of $20.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

I found that it I can get the dump (now transfer station) to take many
things that they say they won't with a few minutes work with a
sawzall. *They don't take large appliances, but they will take steel
scrap and electric motors. *They won't take furniture, but they will
take wood, cloth, and foam rubber. Etc.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

Much of this seemingly arbitrary behaviour stems from the contract
that your municipality has with whatever organization is downstream.
My town recently changed recycling contractors, and they will now take
ANY paper or cardboard, ANY glass, ANY plastic and ANY metal (though
not appliances), ALL MIXED TOGETHER. I know there are machines that
can do some of the separation automatically, but I assume there are
minimum-wage people lined up along a conveyor belt picking through a
lot of this.

On Oct 10, 3:19*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 04:56:27 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:
On Oct 10, 2:58*am, Rich Grise wrote:
On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 22:10:20 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:

In New York City, you are subject to rather hefty fines if the garbage
man finds recyclables in your garbage bags.

You know government's getting entirely out of hand when there are
garbage police.

You know that people are getting out out of hand when they are so ****ing
stupid that they NEED garbage police to point out to them that the paper
goes in this can, and the plastic goes in that can, and the glass goes in
that can over there. If you're goping to argue that people shouldn't have
to recycle, then this conversation is over.

If it needs to be enforced by government arms, then it's obviously not
a viable idea from the get-go.

Thanks,
Rich

OK. Propose something different. And, are you saying that ANYTHING
that needs to be "enforced by government arms" is not a viable idea?
Seriously?

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:48:16 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:
On Oct 10, 3:19*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 04:56:27 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:
On Oct 10, 2:58*am, Rich Grise wrote:
On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 22:10:20 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:

In New York City, you are subject to rather hefty fines if the
garbage man finds recyclables in your garbage bags.

You know government's getting entirely out of hand when there are
garbage police.

You know that people are getting out out of hand when they are so
****ing stupid that they NEED garbage police to point out to them that
the paper goes in this can, and the plastic goes in that can, and the
glass goes in that can over there. If you're goping to argue that
people shouldn't have to recycle, then this conversation is over.

If it needs to be enforced by government arms, then it's obviously not a
viable idea from the get-go.

OK. Propose something different. And, are you saying that ANYTHING that
needs to be "enforced by government arms" is not a viable idea? Seriously?

Well, there you go with your all-or-nothing thinking.

Although it is true that any idea that's economically viable will
attract VOLUNTARY investment.

And everything else: Police, Fire depts, schools. libraries, are local
issues, and none of the Federal Government's business.

The two jobs the Federal Government is supposed to do - secure the
borders and protect our liberties - they are failing miserably at,
and the evidence is that they've gone over to the evil side.

Thanks,
Rich

On Oct 12, 1:23*pm, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:48:16 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:
On Oct 10, 3:19*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 04:56:27 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:
On Oct 10, 2:58*am, Rich Grise wrote:
On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 22:10:20 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:

In New York City, you are subject to rather hefty fines if the
garbage man finds recyclables in your garbage bags.

You know government's getting entirely out of hand when there are
garbage police.

You know that people are getting out out of hand when they are so
****ing stupid that they NEED garbage police to point out to them that
the paper goes in this can, and the plastic goes in that can, and the
glass goes in that can over there. If you're goping to argue that
people shouldn't have to recycle, then this conversation is over.

If it needs to be enforced by government arms, then it's obviously not a
viable idea from the get-go.

OK. Propose something different. And, are you saying that ANYTHING that
needs to be "enforced by government arms" is not a viable idea? Seriously?

Well, there you go with your all-or-nothing thinking.

Although it is true that any idea that's economically viable will
attract VOLUNTARY investment.

And everything else: Police, Fire depts, schools. libraries, are local
issues, and none of the Federal Government's business.

The two jobs the Federal Government is supposed to do - secure the
borders and protect our liberties - they are failing miserably at,
and the evidence is that they've gone over to the evil side.

Thanks,
Rich

Dude, this was a discussion about recycling, a function usually
handled by local government, and you seized it to turn it into a
tirade against the federal government.

Rich said that recycling is obviously not viable. I said "propose
something else." You railed against the government.

If this is the best discourse we can have...

rangerssuck wrote:

Dude, this was a discussion about recycling, a function usually
handled by local government, and you seized it to turn it into a
tirade against the federal government.


The local government is in to it because they were bribed by the federal government. Sorta
like how seat belt and 0.08 BAL were forced through by the feds taxing in state sales of
gasoline and distributing the money, less administrative costs, and other factors back to
the states.


Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

rangerssuck wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:46:06 -0700 (PDT):

Much of this seemingly arbitrary behaviour stems from the contract
that your municipality has with whatever organization is downstream.
My town recently changed recycling contractors, and they will now take
ANY paper or cardboard, ANY glass, ANY plastic and ANY metal (though
not appliances), ALL MIXED TOGETHER.
That happened here too, cans and plastic bottles together, and all
paper together..

I know there are machines that
can do some of the separation automatically, but I assume there are
minimum-wage people lined up along a conveyor belt picking through a
lot of this.

Probably. But I still wonder why you can't leave a washer, dryer,
stove or dishwasher, but you can cut them up into three or four pieces
and they are happy to take them. Refrigerators and window AC units I
can understand, freon and all.

--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Oct 12, 1:23 pm, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:48:16 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:
On Oct 10, 3:19 pm, Rich Grise wrote:
On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 04:56:27 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:
On Oct 10, 2:58 am, Rich Grise wrote:
On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 22:10:20 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:

In New York City, you are subject to rather hefty fines if the
garbage man finds recyclables in your garbage bags.

You know government's getting entirely out of hand when there are
garbage police.

You know that people are getting out out of hand when they are so
****ing stupid that they NEED garbage police to point out to them
that
the paper goes in this can, and the plastic goes in that can, and
the
glass goes in that can over there. If you're goping to argue that
people shouldn't have to recycle, then this conversation is over.

If it needs to be enforced by government arms, then it's obviously not
a
viable idea from the get-go.

OK. Propose something different. And, are you saying that ANYTHING that
needs to be "enforced by government arms" is not a viable idea?
Seriously?

Well, there you go with your all-or-nothing thinking.

Although it is true that any idea that's economically viable will
attract VOLUNTARY investment.

And everything else: Police, Fire depts, schools. libraries, are local
issues, and none of the Federal Government's business.

The two jobs the Federal Government is supposed to do - secure the
borders and protect our liberties - they are failing miserably at,
and the evidence is that they've gone over to the evil side.

Thanks,
Rich

Dude, this was a discussion about recycling, a function usually
handled by local government, and you seized it to turn it into a
tirade against the federal government.

Rich said that recycling is obviously not viable. I said "propose
something else." You railed against the government.

If this is the best discourse we can have...

50 years ago, there was lots of recycling. Probably more than now. You
took your stuff to the dumps and the dumps separated out bottles, metal,
etc. They were worth selling. And then the cities cut the rates and they
opened up "landfills". Dump everything and get arrested if you take
anything.

dan wrote:

rangerssuck wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:46:06 -0700 (PDT):

Much of this seemingly arbitrary behaviour stems from the contract
that your municipality has with whatever organization is downstream.
My town recently changed recycling contractors, and they will now take
ANY paper or cardboard, ANY glass, ANY plastic and ANY metal (though
not appliances), ALL MIXED TOGETHER.
That happened here too, cans and plastic bottles together, and all
paper together..

I know there are machines that
can do some of the separation automatically, but I assume there are
minimum-wage people lined up along a conveyor belt picking through a
lot of this.

Probably. But I still wonder why you can't leave a washer, dryer,
stove or dishwasher, but you can cut them up into three or four pieces
and they are happy to take them. Refrigerators and window AC units I
can understand, freon and all.



You must live in a wierd place. Our local transfer stations have a
large concrete pad to leave applainces. The county picks them up
intact, and hauls them to a local recycler who pays them by the pound
for 'Mixed metals'.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

"Califbill" wrote in message
m...
[...]

50 years ago, there was lots of recycling. Probably more than now. You
took your stuff to the dumps and the dumps separated out bottles, metal,
etc. They were worth selling. And then the cities cut the rates and they
opened up "landfills". Dump everything and get arrested if you take
anything.

Do not get me started!

Yes to all of the above.

There were no plastic bags. A standard piece of equipment for every citizen
was "sitovka", a string bag easily stowed away in a pocket but readily
available if the corner shop unexpectedly received a supply of onions. Or
liver. Or toilet rolls...

In many communities milk bottles were unknown: A trip with a can was
routine.

25 years ago we would package our used (one time use only) cardiac catheters
and sent them to Poland where they would see further service.

And so on...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:26:28 -0700, rangerssuck wrote:

Rich said that recycling is obviously not viable. I said "propose
something else." You railed against the government.

No, I apparently misread. I didn't say "recycling isn't viable."
I said that solar and wind aren't really viable alternatives to
the current fossil fuels, or to nuclear energy, which is so wrapped
up in liberal NIMBY red tape that it's not even _allowed_ to prove
itself, as it is doing in Japan and France, and even the US Navy
has some nuclear powered ships.

Heck, I think they should sell plastic grocery bags at the checkout -
that'd be a monetary incentive to recycle them, and the money could
go to support the inmates cleaning up the beaches for "community
service."

I used to voluntarily recycle my beer cans, but at the time they
were buying them at 85 cents a pound. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 00:07:19 +0000, dan wrote:

Probably. But I still wonder why you can't leave a washer, dryer, stove
or dishwasher, but you can cut them up into three or four pieces and they
are happy to take them.

Because the "cut them up" part is too much like work.

Cheers!
Rich

Rich Grise, Professional AGW Denialist wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 16:13:44 -0700:

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 00:07:19 +0000, dan wrote:

Probably. But I still wonder why you can't leave a washer, dryer, stove
or dishwasher, but you can cut them up into three or four pieces and they
are happy to take them.

Because the "cut them up" part is too much like work.

I don't know about that. All the metal is left next to a large open
top container, and when the pile gets big enough, they take a front
end loader and drop it into the container. I think it's some kind of
racket. They must be extorting money somehow.

--

Dan H.
northshore MA.