For old electronic equipment it is a common thing to do is restuff the outer
can of failed dual electrolytic capoacitors , like these in form
http://jensencapacitors.com/public/b...t6elytdual.jpg
(3 terminals because 2 are commoned usually)
about .5mm thick 45mm long 35mm diameter or so.
The original has 2 capacitors built concentric to one another, inside.
Fortunately modern ones , singley, for the same rating are smaller in
volume, but as separate , to get enough space you have to oval out the can a
bit to fit 2 in side by side.
How to oval out the closed end without deforming to flats/overhangs. I do
not know if the original is spun or annealed&pressed. I seem to remember
that to anneal aluminium its a matter of coating with soap and heating till
it goes brown, but what to do next to loose metal and before or after
sqashing to oval. I fix a tight steel band (a standard capacitor clip) about
5mm from the closed end before squashing in a vice to minimise the flats,
but I would like to find a better way. It would be nice to dome the flat top
or create a saddle of 2 small domes to the top would loose metal and look ok
but how to do with minimal equipment.

On Sep 4, 1:29*am, "N_Cook" wrote:
For old electronic equipment it is a common thing to do is restuff the outer
can of failed *dual electrolytic capoacitors , like these in formhttp://jensencapacitors.com/public/billeder/produkter/kat6elytdual.jpg
(3 terminals because 2 are commoned usually)
about .5mm thick 45mm long 35mm diameter or so.
The original has 2 capacitors built concentric to one another, inside.
Fortunately modern ones , singley, for the same rating *are smaller in
volume, but as separate , to get enough space you have to oval out the can a
bit to fit 2 in side by side.
How to oval out the closed end without deforming to flats/overhangs. I do
not know if the original is spun or annealed&pressed. I seem to remember
that to anneal aluminium its a matter of coating with soap and heating till
it goes brown, but what to do next to loose metal and before or after
sqashing to oval. I fix a tight steel band (a standard capacitor clip) about
5mm from the closed end before squashing in a vice to minimise the flats,
but I would like to find a better way. It would be nice to dome the flat top
or create a saddle of 2 small domes to the top would loose metal and look ok
but how to do with minimal equipment.

It's been a long time since I've replaced any of those.

The cans are drawn or extruded, so probably not work-hardened at all
due to the grade of alloy needed, they crush easily. You can probably
ding them out with rounded dowels(broomstick end?), if you want oval,
get to whittling. Want two domes, whittle a rounded end onto a small
dowel and ding the top twice. You'd probably get better results using
something for backing up, standard panel beaters accessory was the
shot bag. Or whittle a cavity and smooth it up in a piece of
hardwood.

Stan

On Sep 4, 3:29*am, "N_Cook" wrote:
For old electronic equipment it is a common thing to do is restuff the outer
can of failed *dual electrolytic capoacitors , ...

New caps come packaged in perfectly good cans, why do you have to
stuff them into the old one?

jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote in message
...
On Sep 4, 3:29 am, "N_Cook" wrote:
For old electronic equipment it is a common thing to do is restuff the
outer
can of failed dual electrolytic capoacitors , ...

New caps come packaged in perfectly good cans, why do you have to
stuff them into the old one?

jsw

I agree, if it was mine I'd replace with 2 separate capactitors as plenty of
space . But others have a thing about original parts especially with the
date July 1975 on it, probably adds monetary value to these things , modern
stuff reduces value apparently

Jim Wilkins wrote in message
...
On Sep 4, 3:29 am, "N_Cook" wrote:
For old electronic equipment it is a common thing to do is restuff the
outer
can of failed dual electrolytic capoacitors , ...

New caps come packaged in perfectly good cans, why do you have to
stuff them into the old one?

jsw

For appearance. A lot of the older stuff (I mean 40's and 50's vintage
record players and radios, not stuff since the 60's) had phenolic or
Bakelite outer cans on electrolytics. A new aluminum or vinyl shrink-
wrapped can just wouldn't have the same look and feel.

I fully re-built a 1958 Wurlitzer juke box. Aside from the mechanicals,
trying to completely re-do the electronics to OEM spec was quite a
challenge.

(Hint -- the changer carousel from an old Wurly fits nicely in a large-
load dishwasher G)

LLoyd


LLoyd

On Sep 8, 8:43*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote in message

....

On Sep 4, 3:29 am, "N_Cook" wrote:
For old electronic equipment it is a common thing to do is restuff the
outer
can of failed dual electrolytic capoacitors , ...

New caps come packaged in perfectly good cans, why do you have to
stuff them into the old one?
jsw

For appearance. *A lot of the older stuff (I mean 40's and 50's vintage
record players and radios, not stuff since the 60's) had phenolic or
Bakelite outer cans on electrolytics. *A new aluminum or vinyl shrink-
wrapped can just wouldn't have the same look and feel.
...
LLoyd

Oh, this is like old cars and airplanes that can be either functional
or original, but not both.
Rather than mangling the original can why not save it intact and
fabricate a replica cover for the replacements?

jsw

Jim Wilkins fired this volley in news:14e63de1-24db-
:

Rather than mangling the original can why not save it intact and
fabricate a replica cover for the replacements?



Jim, one need not "mangle" the old cans. The plastic ones were generally
mounted with either two bolt tabs or by a clamping ring assembly from the
bottom side of the chassis. At the worst, only the phenolic bottom disk of
the old cap need be damaged to "re-stuff" it. With care, even that may be
preserved, and only the guts changed.

LLoyd

On Sep 8, 9:36*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Jim Wilkins fired this volley in news:14e63de1-24db-
:

Rather than mangling the original can why not save it intact and
fabricate a replica cover for the replacements?

Jim, one need not "mangle" the old cans. *The plastic ones were generally
mounted with either two bolt tabs or by a clamping ring assembly from the
bottom side of the chassis. *At the worst, only the phenolic bottom disk of
the old cap need be damaged to "re-stuff" it. *With care, even that may be
preserved, and only the guts changed. *

LLoyd

The OP wanted to reshape some of them oval to fit two new caps in. I
would keep the can intact. In other well-developed collecting areas
like firearms -any- modification including refinishing reduces value.
I think the practice is to save the original parts for show if you
want to make the device functional. That's what I do based on museum
exhibits.

Here are examples of the compromises necessary to operate old
equipment:
http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/
http://www.ohtm.org/
http://www.americanprecision.org/
http://www.nps.gov/sair/
http://www.ussconstitutionmuseum.org...FSE1gwodnRdXHg

jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote in message
...
On Sep 8, 9:36 am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Jim Wilkins fired this volley in news:14e63de1-24db-
:

Rather than mangling the original can why not save it intact and
fabricate a replica cover for the replacements?

Jim, one need not "mangle" the old cans. The plastic ones were generally
mounted with either two bolt tabs or by a clamping ring assembly from the
bottom side of the chassis. At the worst, only the phenolic bottom disk of
the old cap need be damaged to "re-stuff" it. With care, even that may be
preserved, and only the guts changed.

LLoyd

The OP wanted to reshape some of them oval to fit two new caps in. I
would keep the can intact. In other well-developed collecting areas
like firearms -any- modification including refinishing reduces value.
I think the practice is to save the original parts for show if you
want to make the device functional. That's what I do based on museum
exhibits.

Here are examples of the compromises necessary to operate old
equipment:
http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/
http://www.ohtm.org/
http://www.americanprecision.org/
http://www.nps.gov/sair/
http://www.ussconstitutionmuseum.org...qjbmB-KMCFSE1g
wodnRdXHg

jsw

----------

That is before safety issues come into play. Where carbon resistors have
failed I always replace with metal oxide resistors . Some people even tone
down the modern colours.
Likewise rubber sleeving perishes and modern replacement is too vividly
coloured.

Snip

The OP wanted to reshape some of them oval to fit two new caps in. I
would keep the can intact. In other well-developed collecting areas
like firearms -any- modification including refinishing reduces value.
I think the practice is to save the original parts for show if you
want to make the device functional. That's what I do based on museum
exhibits.

Snip


We run into the appearance/ functionality/ safety argument regularly at the
museum where I volunteer as restorer of old machinery. Steam powered stuff
is a real problem as old boilers weren't built to codes and are difficult to
get registered. Riveted boilers are a real problem if the barrel isn't
covered with lagging and cladding. I know of one boiler on a replica steam
boat that has rivet heads attached to the boiler with high temperature
adhesive. The boiler is of all welded construction and the rivet heads are
just for appearance. I have been known to slip in stainless steel components
occasionally to reduce the corrosion and maintenance. They aren't authentic,
but they save a lot of maintenance time.
We have a significant steam traction engine to restore in the near future
but the boiler is beyond repair to the extent that it could ever be safely
operated. We have accepted the fact that it will never operate on steam so
we will bypass the boiler and operate it on compressed air.

Grumpy wrote in message
. au...
Snip

The OP wanted to reshape some of them oval to fit two new caps in. I
would keep the can intact. In other well-developed collecting areas
like firearms -any- modification including refinishing reduces value.
I think the practice is to save the original parts for show if you
want to make the device functional. That's what I do based on museum
exhibits.

Snip


We run into the appearance/ functionality/ safety argument regularly at
the
museum where I volunteer as restorer of old machinery. Steam powered stuff
is a real problem as old boilers weren't built to codes and are difficult
to
get registered. Riveted boilers are a real problem if the barrel isn't
covered with lagging and cladding. I know of one boiler on a replica
steam
boat that has rivet heads attached to the boiler with high temperature
adhesive. The boiler is of all welded construction and the rivet heads are
just for appearance. I have been known to slip in stainless steel
components
occasionally to reduce the corrosion and maintenance. They aren't
authentic,
but they save a lot of maintenance time.
We have a significant steam traction engine to restore in the near future
but the boiler is beyond repair to the extent that it could ever be safely
operated. We have accepted the fact that it will never operate on steam so
we will bypass the boiler and operate it on compressed air.




What is the safe replacement for asbestos lagging these days? I have seen it
"flowing" like water out of rusty holes in an old boiler external cladding
and getting airbourne glistening in shafts of sunlight coming through holes
in the rusty shed around the boiler

On 09/07/2010 02:57 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Sep 4, 3:29 am, wrote:
For old electronic equipment it is a common thing to do is restuff the outer
can of failed dual electrolytic capoacitors , ...

New caps come packaged in perfectly good cans, why do you have to
stuff them into the old one?

To retain the look of the original rig.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On 09/04/2010 12:29 AM, N_Cook wrote:
For old electronic equipment it is a common thing to do is restuff the outer
can of failed dual electrolytic capoacitors , like these in form
http://jensencapacitors.com/public/b...t6elytdual.jpg
(3 terminals because 2 are commoned usually)
about .5mm thick 45mm long 35mm diameter or so.
The original has 2 capacitors built concentric to one another, inside.
Fortunately modern ones , singley, for the same rating are smaller in
volume, but as separate , to get enough space you have to oval out the can a
bit to fit 2 in side by side.
How to oval out the closed end without deforming to flats/overhangs. I do
not know if the original is spun or annealed&pressed. I seem to remember
that to anneal aluminium its a matter of coating with soap and heating till
it goes brown, but what to do next to loose metal and before or after
sqashing to oval. I fix a tight steel band (a standard capacitor clip) about
5mm from the closed end before squashing in a vice to minimise the flats,
but I would like to find a better way. It would be nice to dome the flat top
or create a saddle of 2 small domes to the top would loose metal and look ok
but how to do with minimal equipment.

Getting outside of your box for a second, what about using more than two
caps, in whatever parallel arrangement is needed? Three, four and seven
caps will all pack into a circle much more efficiently than two; that
may give you the volume you need. For that matter, some searching may
find you some short wide caps that can be stacked.

Just a thought...

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Grumpy wrote in message
. au...
Snip

The OP wanted to reshape some of them oval to fit two new caps in. I
would keep the can intact. In other well-developed collecting areas
like firearms -any- modification including refinishing reduces value.
I think the practice is to save the original parts for show if you
want to make the device functional. That's what I do based on museum
exhibits.

Snip


We run into the appearance/ functionality/ safety argument regularly at
the
museum where I volunteer as restorer of old machinery. Steam powered
stuff
is a real problem as old boilers weren't built to codes and are difficult
to
get registered. Riveted boilers are a real problem if the barrel isn't
covered with lagging and cladding. I know of one boiler on a replica
steam
boat that has rivet heads attached to the boiler with high temperature
adhesive. The boiler is of all welded construction and the rivet heads
are
just for appearance. I have been known to slip in stainless steel
components
occasionally to reduce the corrosion and maintenance. They aren't
authentic,
but they save a lot of maintenance time.
We have a significant steam traction engine to restore in the near
future
but the boiler is beyond repair to the extent that it could ever be
safely
operated. We have accepted the fact that it will never operate on steam
so
we will bypass the boiler and operate it on compressed air.




What is the safe replacement for asbestos lagging these days? I have seen
it
"flowing" like water out of rusty holes in an old boiler external cladding
and getting airbourne glistening in shafts of sunlight coming through
holes
in the rusty shed around the boiler


Good point!

Luckily, we don't have that problem as the cladding had rusted off it and
the lagging had dissapeared long before we aquired it. If asbestos is
detected in a peice of machinery, it is either removed by professionals or
sealed in place if it is impossibel to remove. If its removed it is usually
replaced with rock wool. It can handle the relatively low temperatures that
older steam stuff generates without problem. If you do need higher
temperature rateing use Kaowool. Its a ceramic wool and really good!