I figure cans (e.g. soup cans) are steel plated with something. What I
really want to know is if they make acceptable electrodes for electrolytic
derusting.

GWE

Grant Erwin wrote:
I figure cans (e.g. soup cans) are steel plated with something. What I
really want to know is if they make acceptable electrodes for electrolytic
derusting.

GWE

They're steel, originally plated with tin. I think these days they're
often coated with vinyl or some other tough plastic instead.

Canned fruit seems to come in plated, rather than coated, cans.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Tin is actually a fairly expensive metal/element, easily on par w/ copper,
lead, nickel, chrome.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
Grant Erwin wrote:
I figure cans (e.g. soup cans) are steel plated with something. What I
really want to know is if they make acceptable electrodes for
electrolytic
derusting.

GWE

They're steel, originally plated with tin. I think these days they're
often coated with vinyl or some other tough plastic instead.

Canned fruit seems to come in plated, rather than coated, cans.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:31:03 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:

I figure cans (e.g. soup cans) are steel plated with something. What I
really want to know is if they make acceptable electrodes for electrolytic
derusting.

GWE

Grant, I tried coffee cans and they only lasted about a day. They'll
fall apart and a lot of unused steel winds up in the bottom of the
vat.

It was a messy situation.

Do you have any arc-furnace foundries in your area? Do you know
anyone who works on an aluminum "pot line?" Both use carbon
electrodes and carbon makes a very good material for electrolytic
de-rusting.

That said, the binding agent in some carbons will dissolve rapidly in
the electrolysis vat. I've had carbon electrodes disappear overnight.

On the other hand, I've had some 1/2" thick graphite electrodes that
lasted about a year.

Another place to get carbon (graphite) is on eBay. You cannot simply
do a search for graphite, however, or else you'll get ten million hits
on everything from golf clubs to fly rods. You'll need to search for
graphite stock, graphite plates, graphite blocks, etc.

The nice thing about using graphite electrodes for electrolysis is
that the solution stays clear and clean. If you use steel it turns
rusty red and gets worse every day. Finally, the rust particles start
settling out on the part you are drying to de-rust. It's a no-win
situation.

Don't try stainless, either. That's another story. Suffice it to
say, don't believe anyone who tries to tells you stainless won't be
affected. It will. And, it'll create a hazardous waste product that
can be difficult to dispose of. Stainless chromium chromates
poison.

Regards,

Orrin

What do you figure the reaction is that's taking place at the carbon
electrode? I guess I sort of thought it had to be a steel electrode.
Else why not just use copper? At any rate, this is my first time EDRing
and I'm doing a small piece - a steel 2" caster - and I'm just using a
piece of 3" steel square tube as the anode (cathode? boy I could never
get those straight). It's bubbling away nicely. I figure I'll toss the
solution after I'm done. The cost of a tablespoon or two of washing soda
isn't worth it.

Grant

Orrin Iseminger wrote:

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:31:03 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:


I figure cans (e.g. soup cans) are steel plated with something. What I
really want to know is if they make acceptable electrodes for electrolytic
derusting.

GWE


Grant, I tried coffee cans and they only lasted about a day. They'll
fall apart and a lot of unused steel winds up in the bottom of the
vat.

It was a messy situation.

Do you have any arc-furnace foundries in your area? Do you know
anyone who works on an aluminum "pot line?" Both use carbon
electrodes and carbon makes a very good material for electrolytic
de-rusting.

That said, the binding agent in some carbons will dissolve rapidly in
the electrolysis vat. I've had carbon electrodes disappear overnight.

On the other hand, I've had some 1/2" thick graphite electrodes that
lasted about a year.

Another place to get carbon (graphite) is on eBay. You cannot simply
do a search for graphite, however, or else you'll get ten million hits
on everything from golf clubs to fly rods. You'll need to search for
graphite stock, graphite plates, graphite blocks, etc.

The nice thing about using graphite electrodes for electrolysis is
that the solution stays clear and clean. If you use steel it turns
rusty red and gets worse every day. Finally, the rust particles start
settling out on the part you are drying to de-rust. It's a no-win
situation.

Don't try stainless, either. That's another story. Suffice it to
say, don't believe anyone who tries to tells you stainless won't be
affected. It will. And, it'll create a hazardous waste product that
can be difficult to dispose of. Stainless chromium chromates
poison.

Regards,

Orrin

My high school chemistry teacher made sure we'd never forget which
electrode is which (not that it will be of much help to you).
Reduction occurs at the Cathode (reduction being the opposite of
oxidation, you put the work on the cathode(-)).

I should add that my teacher's name is Ron Crampton. Maybe you could
think put Rust at the Cathode?

Steve

Grant Erwin wrote:

What do you figure the reaction is that's taking place at the carbon
electrode? I guess I sort of thought it had to be a steel electrode.
Else why not just use copper? At any rate, this is my first time EDRing
and I'm doing a small piece - a steel 2" caster - and I'm just using a
piece of 3" steel square tube as the anode (cathode? boy I could never
get those straight). It's bubbling away nicely. I figure I'll toss the
solution after I'm done. The cost of a tablespoon or two of washing soda
isn't worth it.

Grant

Orrin Iseminger wrote:

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:31:03 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:


I figure cans (e.g. soup cans) are steel plated with something. What I
really want to know is if they make acceptable electrodes for
electrolytic
derusting.

GWE



Grant, I tried coffee cans and they only lasted about a day. They'll
fall apart and a lot of unused steel winds up in the bottom of the
vat.
It was a messy situation.
Do you have any arc-furnace foundries in your area? Do you know
anyone who works on an aluminum "pot line?" Both use carbon
electrodes and carbon makes a very good material for electrolytic
de-rusting.
That said, the binding agent in some carbons will dissolve rapidly in
the electrolysis vat. I've had carbon electrodes disappear overnight.

On the other hand, I've had some 1/2" thick graphite electrodes that
lasted about a year.
Another place to get carbon (graphite) is on eBay. You cannot simply
do a search for graphite, however, or else you'll get ten million hits
on everything from golf clubs to fly rods. You'll need to search for
graphite stock, graphite plates, graphite blocks, etc.
The nice thing about using graphite electrodes for electrolysis is
that the solution stays clear and clean. If you use steel it turns
rusty red and gets worse every day. Finally, the rust particles start
settling out on the part you are drying to de-rust. It's a no-win
situation.
Don't try stainless, either. That's another story. Suffice it to
say, don't believe anyone who tries to tells you stainless won't be
affected. It will. And, it'll create a hazardous waste product that
can be difficult to dispose of. Stainless chromium chromates
poison.
Regards,

Orrin

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
What do you figure the reaction is that's taking place at the carbon
electrode? I guess I sort of thought it had to be a steel electrode.
Else why not just use copper? At any rate, this is my first time EDRing
and I'm doing a small piece - a steel 2" caster - and I'm just using a
piece of 3" steel square tube as the anode (cathode? boy I could never
get those straight). It's bubbling away nicely. I figure I'll toss the
solution after I'm done. The cost of a tablespoon or two of washing soda
isn't worth it.

I use a slab off an old Poco 3 EDM electrode for my wipe-type derusting.
It's lasted for about three years and I detect no sign of wear. I wrap it
with cotton batting, or, if I want to be more aggressive, one of those green
abrasive pot-scrubbing pads. They contain silicon carbide so don't use them
on anything you don't want scratched.

For use in the tank I have a sheet of steel I cut off the front and one side
of an old clothes washer, before I threw it out. I made it into a cylinder
that surrounds the inside of a 5-gal. plastic bucket. A disk sander cleaned
off one side. I left the paint on the outside.

The ends aren't fastened together; it's just a bent sheet. It's lasted for
two years and looks like it has a few more years in it.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:31:03 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:

I figure cans (e.g. soup cans) are steel plated with something. What I
really want to know is if they make acceptable electrodes for electrolytic
derusting.

GWE

In my earlier post I forgot to mention that I've written an eight page
handout that goes along with my electrolytic de-rust demonstrations.
Perhaps you might find something useful in it.

It's not Web friendly, but you can print it out and it will be much
easier to read on paper.

http://users.moscow.com/oiseming/rustdemo/rustdemo.htm

Someday I'll add pictures.

Regards,

Orrin

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 15:41:18 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:

What do you figure the reaction is that's taking place at the carbon
electrode? I guess I sort of thought it had to be a steel electrode.
Else why not just use copper? At any rate, this is my first time EDRing
and I'm doing a small piece - a steel 2" caster - and I'm just using a
piece of 3" steel square tube as the anode (cathode? boy I could never
get those straight). It's bubbling away nicely. I figure I'll toss the
solution after I'm done. The cost of a tablespoon or two of washing soda
isn't worth it.

Grant

Without going into mental gymnastics and sorting out anode, cathode,
etc., I'm guessing that either hydrogen or oxygen is being produced.
The only thing the "waste" electrode needs to do is to establish
electrical contact with the solution. What goes on, there, is
unimportant, IMHO.

If you use copper you'll wind up with some sort of copper compound. I
do believe the copper will be consumed.

Back in the days when I was believing the folks who said stainless
steel wouldn't be affected, I used a coil of tubing that came out of a
heat exchanger, assuming that it was S/S. The next morning when I
checked my vat, nothing was there! The coil was completely consumed
at the water line. The rest dropped to the bottom of the tank.

I'm guessing the thing was made of Inconel. Whatever it was, it was a
disaster in the electrolytic vat! :-)

Regards,

Orrin