On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:13:11 -0700, Tim Wescott wrote:
On 07/21/2010 11:35 AM, Steve B wrote:
"Doug wrote in message
wrote:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,2767349.story

So much for the war on drugs.

The war on drugs was lost before it ever started. Clearly the
architects of
that policy learned *nothing* from Prohibition.

If this planet falls apart this afternoon, and we all go off to caves or
tunnels or cliff overhangs to live, tomorrow morning, someone's gonna be
selling pussy, booze, drugs, and gambling. We have learned nothing from
our history as a species, and still think that we can "control" this
behavior. Well, we can't, but we can tax the hell out of it, and day
after tomorrow, some clown will come up with that idea when they see
money changing hands, and everything needs to be made "fair".

"IT'S JUST NOT FAIR! WAIL! MOAN! SCREAM!"

IMHO we _can_ control it -- we just can't _stop_ it. Trying to stop it
completely is like trying to calm down an obsessive by tying him to a
chair -- it gets superficially desirable results for a short while, but
it's expensive, cruel, and doesn't solve any problems in the long run.

So to ask "how can we stop this?" is a fools question. The question we
should ask is "how can we make this behavior as healthy as possible?".

No, the _real_ question is, "How do we get people to stop letting their
Free Will be oppressed by tyrants?"

I fear that the vast majority (the "sheeple") don't want Freedom - they
want Mommy.

Sigh.

Thanks,
Rich

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:17:52 -0500, Ignoramus9140 wrote:
On 2010-07-21, Steve B wrote:
"azotic" wrote in message
...
Reporting from Oakland -
Oakland's City Council on Tuesday approved an ordinance that could make
it the first city in the state to permit industrial marijuana
production, a path-breaking decision that could spur the
commercialization of a crop largely grown in hidden gardens.

The plan would authorize four potentially enormous pot factories, but
makes no provision for the hundreds of growers who now supply Oakland's
four dispensaries, which sold $28 million in marijuana last year. The
council, however, promised it would develop a plan for these growers
before permits are awarded next year for the four large-scale marijuana
operations.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,2767349.story

So much for the war on drugs.

Sounds like a shovel ready project, they might even get stimulus funds
from obama.

The government is just like the mob. So long as they get their %,
everything is fine. They have finally discovered that they cannot
control the drugs coming in to the US, so therefore now want to make
money on it. Much like the history of alcohol. As you know, there is a
huge governmental agency that insures alcohol taxes are collected.

Yes, folks, we are going to have legalized drugs. We already have
legalized drugs in several states in the form of easily available
legalized marijuana. And it's all going to be under government control
and taxes collected, or the feds will bust your butt. Just like alcohol
and tobacco. Perhaps you've noticed lately that even government
spokespeople are publicly commenting that the laws are unenforceable,
and that their manpower aimed at it is wasted.

Legalizing pot is long overdue.

They could collect, say, $100.00/lb import duty on foreign weed, or maybe
even a percentage of its price; that'd generate a lot of revenue:
Fed: "Anything to declare?"
You: "Yeah - ten pounds of Acapulco Gold in the trunk."
Fed: "OK, that'll be #1000.00."
You: "Here ya go!"
Fed: "Have a nice day!"

Or $220/kilo. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:14:37 -0700, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
wrote:


I think that drugs include very disparate chemicals, some relatively
harmless (like pot) and some not so benign. They may possibly need to be
regulated separately.

From where do you get the idea that any human or group of humans has any
authority to dictate what any other adult human may be allowed to put
into, or take out of, his or her own body?

Thanks,
Rich


Probably from the same place I did...holding a persons head and trying
to keep them from asperating vomit after finding them turning blue on
the floor of their kitchen as the result of an overdose.

But..other than that..you are indeed absolutely correct. Drugs should
be legalized.

In less than 2 yrs, we will have a massive die off of a significant
fraction of our population,..and then the rest will learn the dangers
and die off individually rather than as a large lemming like herd off
the edge of a cliff, after we legalize all drugs.

Coming on the heels of the Great Cull..we will be short at least 3-5
million people, which will make rent far cheaper for the survivors.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:29:44 -0700, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:29:23 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:39:08 -0700, Tim Wescott

There is no evidence at all that marijuana is physically addictive.

Don't tell the DEA that! They want you to believe otherwise.

However..unfortunately..there is wide spread evidence that pot is
pyschologically addictive.

My quesion remains, so what?

How, exactly, is it any skin off your nose if I become addicted?

If you are a driver, or a pilot, or a doctor, or someone with access to
deadly machinery...yes..it certainly is.

If I'm an addict, what difference does it make to you?

And most importantly, how do you rationalize spending billions of taxpayer
dollars to "rescue" me from a "problem" that exists only in your own mind?

Thanks,
Rich

Rich..Im not trying to rescue you. Im simply trying to stay alive, along
with my non drug using friends. Its bad enough having stoners and
tweakers driving cars..but double or triple the numbers of both..and it
will be really interesting for a while.

But you are indeed correct. This is a problem that has grown for a
century..and resolving it will not be clean, or neat.

Ill just make sure I get a nice big heavy SUV the day the laws are
removed. Maybe armor it a bit..I drive a lot. Put run flats on it....

Then Ill sell it 2 yrs later after all the ****heads are dead.

But you are indeed correct.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:34:55 -0700, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:29:23 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:39:08 -0700, Tim Wescott

There is no evidence at all that marijuana is physically addictive.

Don't tell the DEA that! They want you to believe otherwise.

However..unfortunately..there is wide spread evidence that pot is
pyschologically addictive.

I know far far too many potheads who have been stoners for many many
years.

While most hold jobs of some sort...few of them are of any note and they
tend to "float" along, day by day.

Please tell me how that justifies doing violence to them?

Thanks,
Rich

Violence? Humm? Who suggested doing violence to them? Wasnt me
certainly.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:42:47 -0700, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:09:21 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:
rangerssuck wrote:

Alcohol use ceases to be a "choice" once there is physical addiction.

Bull****. It's still a choice. Or do you think the addiction is
unbreakable?

The self-righteous always claim "addiction" when they're trying to lay a
guilt trip on those of us who haven't denied our Free Will or turned over
our life to the insert appropriate authroritan figure here.

Cheers!
Rich


So how long have you been a regular pot user, Rich?

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"Richard the Dreaded Libertarian" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:29:23 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:39:08 -0700, Tim Wescott

There is no evidence at all that marijuana is physically addictive.

Don't tell the DEA that! They want you to believe otherwise.

However..unfortunately..there is wide spread evidence that pot is
pyschologically addictive.

My quesion remains, so what?

How, exactly, is it any skin off your nose if I become addicted?

If I'm an addict, what difference does it make to you?

And most importantly, how do you rationalize spending billions of taxpayer
dollars to "rescue" me from a "problem" that exists only in your own mind?

Thanks,
Rich

Uh, because you need to get the money somewhere to support your habit, and
if you're an unproductive member of society you must steal to get it?

What do I win?

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Richard the Dreaded Libertarian" wrote in
message news
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:29:23 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:39:08 -0700, Tim Wescott

There is no evidence at all that marijuana is physically addictive.

Don't tell the DEA that! They want you to believe otherwise.

However..unfortunately..there is wide spread evidence that pot is
pyschologically addictive.

My quesion remains, so what?

How, exactly, is it any skin off your nose if I become addicted?

If I'm an addict, what difference does it make to you?

And most importantly, how do you rationalize spending billions of
taxpayer
dollars to "rescue" me from a "problem" that exists only in your own
mind?

Thanks,
Rich

Uh, because you need to get the money somewhere to support your habit, and
if you're an unproductive member of society you must steal to get it?

What do I win?

Steve

Naaa, you become a drug dealer to support your habit. When your busted
obama care will pay for your rehab and now that you have a disability you
qualify for social security disability checks along with food stamps, rent
subsidies and medicade.

Best Regards
Tom.

"azotic" wrote in message
...

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Richard the Dreaded Libertarian" wrote in
message news
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:29:23 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:39:08 -0700, Tim Wescott

There is no evidence at all that marijuana is physically addictive.

Don't tell the DEA that! They want you to believe otherwise.

However..unfortunately..there is wide spread evidence that pot is
pyschologically addictive.

My quesion remains, so what?

How, exactly, is it any skin off your nose if I become addicted?

If I'm an addict, what difference does it make to you?

And most importantly, how do you rationalize spending billions of
taxpayer
dollars to "rescue" me from a "problem" that exists only in your own
mind?

Thanks,
Rich

Uh, because you need to get the money somewhere to support your habit,
and if you're an unproductive member of society you must steal to get it?

What do I win?

Steve

Naaa, you become a drug dealer to support your habit. When your busted
obama care will pay for your rehab and now that you have a disability you
qualify for social security disability checks along with food stamps, rent
subsidies and medicade.

Best Regards
Tom.

Oh, like the lottery, but with no chance of losing?

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

Steve B wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.70...
"Steve B" fired this volley in
:


Next thing they'll be wanting to tell us is what we can feed our kids,
and what we can eat at a ball game.

What's that?

They are already working on that?

Far more than "working on it". Have you seen NYC's laws concerning
trans-fat and salt limits in restaurant food?

Hey... when I want Alfredo Sauce, the soy-milk version just ain't gonna
serve!

LLoyd

Haven't they realized that there's a salt shaker on every table?


Sure. But the instructions are on the bottom.

I buy the restaurant sized boxes of salt, because I use so much. The
high blood pressure and some other medicine I'm on removes most of the
sodium from my body, so I have to use five to seven times the 'normal'
amount. Even then, I don't taste the salt. It should be enough to make
you gag, but I don't notice a change in flavor till I pass over 10 times
normal. I pay something like 78 cents for a four pound box of table
salt at Sam's Club.

There has been some talk about putting a high tax on sodium chloride,
to force people not to use it. I hope that if they pass that law, that
the morons who vote for it die a slow an painful death, covered in the
pressure sores that are caused by too little sodium in their bodies.
They don' say, 'The salt of life' for no reason.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:34:55 -0700, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:29:23 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:39:08 -0700, Tim Wescott

There is no evidence at all that marijuana is physically addictive.

Don't tell the DEA that! They want you to believe otherwise.

However..unfortunately..there is wide spread evidence that pot is
pyschologically addictive.

I know far far too many potheads who have been stoners for many many
years.

While most hold jobs of some sort...few of them are of any note and they
tend to "float" along, day by day.

Please tell me how that justifies doing violence to them?

Thanks,
Rich

Violence? Humm? Who suggested doing violence to them? Wasnt me
certainly.


It looks like the pot is making him paranoid.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Jul 22, 4:42*am, "Steve B" wrote:
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message



I am 62 years old. *I remember seeing "Reefer Madness" and other films
during "health" class. *And then my real world experience. *And then the PBS
series showing that marijuana, as well as most "drugs" were use to target
minorities, even to the point of murder. *And how one administrator after
another has failed dismally.


Yep, remember seeing Reefer Madness (a DEA film) - was about as
useful, accurate, and informative as the sex education films we were
shown.....
Wasn't your DEA basically founded by (cant remember) someone who built
an empire out of scaring people about things that were not previously
controlled because they weren't a problem? - Your Mr Hoover of the FBI
did basically the same thing......

Andrew VK3BFA.

Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
On Jul 22, 4:42 am, "Steve B" wrote:
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message


I am 62 years old. I remember seeing "Reefer Madness" and other films
during "health" class. And then my real world experience. And then the PBS
series showing that marijuana, as well as most "drugs" were use to target
minorities, even to the point of murder. And how one administrator after
another has failed dismally.


Yep, remember seeing Reefer Madness (a DEA film) - was about as
useful, accurate, and informative as the sex education films we were
shown.....
Wasn't your DEA basically founded by (cant remember) someone who built
an empire out of scaring people about things that were not previously
controlled because they weren't a problem? - Your Mr Hoover of the FBI
did basically the same thing......

Andrew VK3BFA.


It was a bit more involved than that, but basically, yes...
For instance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoot_Suit_Riots

Pot had been used by everybody for generations and several of out founding
fathers had vast acres growing - for hemp (was used for rope before manilla).

In 1619 the Virginia Assembly passed legislation requiring every farmer to
grow hemp. Hemp was allowed to be exchanged as legal tender in Pennsylvania,
Virginia, and Maryland.

After the Mexican Revolution of 1910, Mexican immigrants flooded into the U.S.,
introducing to American culture the recreational use of marijuana. The drug
became associated with the immigrants, and the fear and prejudice about the
Spanish-speaking newcomers became associated with marijuana.

Anti-drug campaigners warned against the encroaching "Marijuana Menace," and
terrible crimes were attributed to marijuana and the Mexicans who used it.

During the Great Depression, massive unemployment increased public resentment
and fear of Mexican immigrants, escalating public and governmental concern about
the problem of marijuana. This instigated a flurry of "research" which linked
the use of marijuana with violence, crime and other socially deviant behaviors,
primarily committed by "racially inferior" or underclass communities. By 1931,
29 states had outlawed marijuana.


During the Great Depression, massive unemployment increased public resentment
and fear of Mexican immigrants, escalating public and governmental concern about
the problem of marijuana. This instigated a flurry of research which linked the
use of marijuana with violence, crime and other socially deviant behaviors,
primarily committed by "racially inferior" or underclass communities. By 1931,
29 states had outlawed marijuana.


After a lurid national propaganda campaign against the "evil weed," Congress
passed the Marijuana Tax Act (1937). The statute effectively criminalized
marijuana, restricting possession of the drug to individuals who paid an excise
tax for certain authorized medical and industrial uses.




Excerpted from Frontline - The War on Marijuana.

On Jul 25, 6:53*pm, cavelamb wrote:


It was a bit more involved than that, but basically, yes...
For instance:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoot_Suit_Riots

Pot had been used by everybody for generations and several of out founding
fathers had vast acres growing - for hemp (was used for rope before manilla).



I though Manila rope was made of hemp - it was far superior to the
sisal used nowadays, both in strength and flexibility. And from fading
memory, the hemp grown for rope was not the variety that could be used/
abused for recreation - but, a field of it looked the same, so it was
all banned....

And dope has got its problems - research has shown that it CAN push
those so inclined into psychosis, similar to some people wrecking
their lives with alcohol.

So, in balance, what to do - legalise a commonly used recreational
drug, or continue a futile campaign against it. The points made about
the Taliban production of Heroin are true, it is a cheap, effective
way of destroying the will to fight of an occupying army - same as in
Vietnam....and then bring the problems home......my, how history does
repeat itself......

Andrew VK3BFA.