"Steve B" wrote:

My dad rolled down my eyelid, and it rolled out, I guess
it didn't mess anything up too bad. Back in those days you didn't take kids
or dogs to the vet unless it was something real bad. But I still remember
that in slow motion.

I've never felt too bad needing to wear corrective glasses to function. If I had perfect
sight, I might be blind now.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Don Foreman wrote:

Jacket, dress overcoat or parka weather provides pockets that easily
accomodate heavier sidearms quite comfortably at junkyard in daytime
and orchestra hall downtown after dark.


Winter is when I arm up a bit.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:05:53 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:52:18 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:44:20 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:36:03 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


But a heads up..the .45 has more than twice the energy of the .380

Its close to 4x as much.

Lets see your math G

Let's see yours! G

I based my assertion on mfrs published data for comparable ammo.

Federal .380ACP Hydra-Shok 90 gn 200 ft lbf
Federal .45ACP Hydra-Shok 230gn 405 ft lbf

Corbon 45 ACP 165 Gr. JHP +P 572
Glaser 45 ACP 145 gr. prefragmented +P 587

Pushing 3 times the HOT load for .380
for which you offer no supporting data.

Blink blink...did you miss the above two loads???? Those 572 and 587
are Footpounds of energy.

Is your AMT .45 certified for +P ammo?

No idea. I dont push my 45 loads very hard and the AMT only gets factory
Sabres. It LIKES them.

There is data for Buffalo Bore .380 ammo clocked from a RugerrLCP at
260 ft-lbf or so. That was probably +P for which the LCP is not
certified, but it was fired from an LCP with no noted damage to
pistol or brass.

Shrug..Ive loaded 38s to .357 Mag velocities (by accident..bowing head
in shame) and fired them through a Colt Detective Special without
incident as well. But not more than a cylinder full.

Sawing sawdust, still begging the question of what is sufficient for
unspecified scenario or plausible limit condx on scenarios.

Nobody disputes that .45ACP is more potent than .380 ACP, or that
.45ACP is less potent than several other pistol calibers and
significantly less potent than any centerfire rifle or shotgun.

Yes indeed. But its the biggest round that one can comfortably shoot
(and carry) that is GOOD for self defense. Well..other than the .41
Mag, which I often carry btw.

Pick yer caliber, take yer walk.

I do I do.

Do you walk or run every day? At your young age a 5K run every day
would be about right. This gentle senior citizen you labelled as a
feeb after quintuple bypass doesn't run 5K, but I do walk 5K every
single day.

Nope. I should be..but its been 112-115F here lately..and Ive been
saving myself from heat stroke.

Right now it's 80F in Taft, 36% humidity. Friday is forecast to peak
at 101 but it won't even make 80 until after 0800.

Right now at 5:06 Pm PST, as I read your post..its 101F on the shaded
front porch. Today was a cooler day than the last couple.

It should be noted that most weather reports originate from the weather
station in Bakersfield, which tends to be 5-15 degrees cooler than here
in Taft. To the best of my knowlege..there arnt any official Weather
Stations here in Taft and most data is presented by interpolation from
Bakersfield.

Just a heads up. G

Now on the other hand..I do have a Nordic Trak and a treadmill that I
use daily.

You're smoke free for how long now? A .45 won't deflect the man
with the scythe if your're still smokin'. With your medical history,
equivocation doesn't cut it: one cig a week is still smokin'.

Great segway from carrying a caliber that is too small to be a reliable
self defense cartridge!! Bravo!

Sure you arent a Leftwinger? Thats the sort of deflection that they are
notorious for.

It's extension, not deflection. I'm extending from quibbling over
calibers to the broader matter of staying alive, which presumably is
the reason for carrying any caliber.

You've had lots of fun patronizing and deriding my choice of
calibers as unhealthy so I get at least one turn at worrying about
you.


Worrying about me? Whatever for? I will either live, or die. There are
no other choices.

But I get the warm and fuzzies for your concern HUG!!
G
Given your age and medical history, seems to me being completely smoke
free and doing at least an hour of aerobic exercise every day would
enhance your chances of longevity far more than a sidearm of .45
caliber or any other caliber.

That depends on where I live, work and travel, doesnt it?

But I agree, over the years, Ive gotten enough hitches in my gitalong
that I tend to ignore pain and discomfort..Im very mission oriented and
have lived with pain and discomfort for so long that I dont pay much
attention to it anymore. I once finished roping a calf, with the last
two fingers of my left hand disjointed and pointing backwards. At the
moment..it was not part of my task to bother with them. And they
certainly didnt get in the way....

Hence..when I walked into the ER and mentioned I was having a little
chest pain..they were rather surprised I was having a heart attack,
rated 8 out of 10 in severity. 10 being moments from flat line....shrug.

But I agree..Ive not been as active as I should be. The stroke 6 weeks
later caused far more damage than the bypass did, both physically and
mentally. The mental issues have largely healed..except for that pesky
momentary memory loss, which comes and goes..for which Im very very
thankful. The physical aspects, which I dont dwell on..are getting
better..but..they are still there. At least I can function normally,
type, turn cranks, shoot, though my vision is nowhere near where it was
18 months ago. That is something of an issue. I may have to get glasses
one of these days. But..shrug..at 56...its not surprising. And I dont
limp nearly as much as I did after it happened....shrug. And the dead
zones where I cant feel anything when I touch the skin are fading
rapidly. But I did have a number of those long before the heart issue.
As I said..I do have a few hitches in mah gitalong.....

But getting back to the subject...yep..I should be walking a lot more
than I do around the shop/yard and clients shops. Ive been swimming a
couple times a week, which helps, but access to a pool is not always
there. Though I do the treadmill and the Nordic Track religiously.

And yes..I still smoke, though NOWHERE near where I was before the
issue. In the last 18 months..Ive quit..seriously...4 times. Patches
and the whole encillada.

Im at a half pack a day. And I cant get below that. Shrug.

If it kills me..ooops. But Ive certainly been trying hard to stay
active..physically and mentally active. And get enough sleep and the
proper foods. And so forth. And I certainly stay away from the junk
food.

Actually..Ive not felt this good in many years. So pehaps its self
delusion. Shrug. When fall comes, and the weather gets better..Ill
definately start walking again. It feels good and the leg gets some use.

When its 112F and 30% humitity..it tends to drain me much more than it
did when I was younger. And..I hate the sun. Im far more of a night
person. Hence you see my postings early early in the morning before I go
to bed. Today..I woke up at 2:15, PM, PST. But I went to bed at 6 am.
Got my 8 hours sleep.

Living in the high desert has its benefits and its minuses....shrug
again.

Now you know my deepest secrets. G

So will you continue to carry the .380 or graduate to at the least..a
decent 38?

G

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:40:45 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:48:46 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:19:06 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

So you are claiming that the .380 only penetrates 2 pine boards???

I make no claim at all. I've never shot at any pine boards. Wes
said above that ammo he'd tried all penetrated at least 2 x 4. He
didn't say which direction, but I assume he meant the smaller
dimension.


Yes, the 1.5" dimension. Dry pine 2 x 4. Probably would bounce off some of my tamarack
2x4's I cut on the band mill.



Wes

I was hit smack in the middle of the forehead once when shooting FMJs
out of my little Savage 1910 .380, when the bullet bounced off a 2x12
(sun dried I admit) that was being used as a backstop, about 20 feet
away.

Didnt put me down..or even break the skin..but sure saw stars for a
minute or two.

That from a ricochet. While you were seeing stars a guy with a .380
could have drilled out your earplugs with it.


True indeed. But it the board was an opponent, Ive have punched it at
least 2x with a 45..which doesnt recochet G

Hence my dislike for the .380..it bounces off things the .45 plows
through.


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:07:29 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 00:56:14 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


Personally..for someone I care about..the LR or Magnum versions would be
far more a show of love than the 22 short version......

You on the other hand..would be armed well enough with the short
version.

G

Gunner

If you're angling to show your love with a short arm inspection,
forget it! G


ROFLMAO!! Well done Sir!!

Gunner, clutching his chest where the barb went deep...
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:56:30 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

I make no claim at all. I've never shot at any pine boards. Wes
said above that ammo he'd tried all penetrated at least 2 x 4. He
didn't say which direction, but I assume he meant the smaller
dimension.


Yes, the 1.5" dimension. Dry pine 2 x 4. Probably would bounce off some of my tamarack
2x4's I cut on the band mill.



Wes

I was hit smack in the middle of the forehead once when shooting FMJs
out of my little Savage 1910 .380, when the bullet bounced off a 2x12
(sun dried I admit) that was being used as a backstop, about 20 feet
away.

Didnt put me down..or even break the skin..but sure saw stars for a
minute or two.


I've had power factor+ 158g .357 dia bullets bounce back off of steel shooting IDPA. We
won't talk about shooting my .22 at a tire out back of the house and how the tire shot
back.

FWIW, there was .380 at Wallymart the other day. 17.97 is hard to swallow. I got empty
boxes of this stuff with 9.99 and 10.99 price tags from a few years ago. I bought one
box. I need to shoot my .380 a few times to check it out.

MidwayUSA had .380 but wanted 14 bucks to send me 2 boxes. Screw that. I've gotten used
to McMaster sending me stuff with reasonable shipping charges.

Instead, I hit Graf and Sons and ordered some Privi Partizan .380 along with some 7.62x39
ammo to try out a Yugo Sks I've had for years and never shot. 4.95 for insurance, free
(embedded) shipping.

Somewhere I have a Russian SKS, I should try that one out also. I put a lot of rifles in
gun socks and locating rifles can be a pain at times.

Wes


The Russian SKS's do indeed make a decent "utility" arm. When they are
in anything above Crap condition..they do the job with no issues. In
fact..in much of the US..they have nearly taken over the job 3030s used
to have. Pickup truck guns and so forth.

Though to be fair..most..not all..but most of the Chicom SKSs arent all
that bad either.

While I tend to lean towards long range weapons..I do live in the
desert...the SKSs do fill in a pretty decent role.
I rather like them. I even have some that are above ground.
G

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:02:27 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

Jacket, dress overcoat or parka weather provides pockets that easily
accomodate heavier sidearms quite comfortably at junkyard in daytime
and orchestra hall downtown after dark.


Winter is when I arm up a bit.

Wes

But do you ever "under dress"?

G

Winter or summer, there is at the very very least..a 9 mm on me, and
usually a .45 of one size or another.

But never a .380. We dont have enough viscious poodles around here to
worry about. Pit bulls..that is another story. And a dog Id not care to
have to shoot with a 1.3/4" barreled .380.

And in the last hummm 7 yrs..Ive shot and killed 27 of them on my
property.

Im not...not a big pit fan.


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:38:27 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



But getting back to the subject...yep..I should be walking a lot more
than I do around the shop/yard and clients shops. Ive been swimming a
couple times a week, which helps, but access to a pool is not always
there. Though I do the treadmill and the Nordic Track religiously.

And yes..I still smoke, though NOWHERE near where I was before the
issue. In the last 18 months..Ive quit..seriously...4 times. Patches
and the whole encillada.

Im at a half pack a day. And I cant get below that. Shrug.

If it kills me..ooops. But Ive certainly been trying hard to stay
active..physically and mentally active. And get enough sleep and the
proper foods. And so forth. And I certainly stay away from the junk
food.

Actually..Ive not felt this good in many years. So pehaps its self
delusion. Shrug. When fall comes, and the weather gets better..Ill
definately start walking again. It feels good and the leg gets some use.

When its 112F and 30% humitity..it tends to drain me much more than it
did when I was younger. And..I hate the sun. Im far more of a night
person. Hence you see my postings early early in the morning before I go
to bed. Today..I woke up at 2:15, PM, PST. But I went to bed at 6 am.
Got my 8 hours sleep.

Living in the high desert has its benefits and its minuses....shrug
again.

So walk at night!

Now you know my deepest secrets. G

So will you continue to carry the .380 or graduate to at the least..a
decent 38?

I've mentioned several times that my routine trail carry is now a
Ruger LCR in .38 spl loaded with Hornady +P critical defense ammo, and
that's about the only place I routinely carry.

Now will you kick the damned smokes already? Forget the patches and
crutches, they just prolong the process. If you can ignore the
various other discomforts you mention, kicking nicotine addiction is
just one more pesky nuisance for a little while. They say the first
13 years are the toughest, but I'd say three weeks is over the hump.
After that it's no big deal but you must never forget that there's no
such thing as just one.

Larry J was right: as long as you regard it as something you're
"giving up", you'll almost certainly revert. You must decide that it
is something you are rejecting and will continue to reject for your
own wellbeing.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:14:35 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"RBnDFW" wrote
I was hit smack in the middle of the forehead once when shooting FMJs
out of my little Savage 1910 .380, when the bullet bounced off a 2x12
(sun dried I admit) that was being used as a backstop, about 20 feet
away.

Didnt put me down..or even break the skin..but sure saw stars for a
minute or two.

Gunner

Good thing you aren't a poodle!

My Dad got me a BB gun when I was a kid. Probably 55+ years ago. It was a
crack back, and only held one bb at a time. He cocked it, and put a bb in
it. We decided on a car fender out in the desert to shoot at. In slow
motion, I watched that bb go over, hit the fender, bounce back and land
right in my eye. My dad rolled down my eyelid, and it rolled out, I guess
it didn't mess anything up too bad. Back in those days you didn't take kids
or dogs to the vet unless it was something real bad. But I still remember
that in slow motion.

Steve

So why didn't you duck? G

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:40:56 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:40:45 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:48:46 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:19:06 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

So you are claiming that the .380 only penetrates 2 pine boards???

I make no claim at all. I've never shot at any pine boards. Wes
said above that ammo he'd tried all penetrated at least 2 x 4. He
didn't say which direction, but I assume he meant the smaller
dimension.


Yes, the 1.5" dimension. Dry pine 2 x 4. Probably would bounce off some of my tamarack
2x4's I cut on the band mill.



Wes

I was hit smack in the middle of the forehead once when shooting FMJs
out of my little Savage 1910 .380, when the bullet bounced off a 2x12
(sun dried I admit) that was being used as a backstop, about 20 feet
away.

Didnt put me down..or even break the skin..but sure saw stars for a
minute or two.

That from a ricochet. While you were seeing stars a guy with a .380
could have drilled out your earplugs with it.


True indeed. But it the board was an opponent, Ive have punched it at
least 2x with a 45..which doesnt recochet G

Not if the board shot first, rang your gong with its paltry 200 ft-lbf
(which is rather more than a strong man can deliver with a California
framing hammer) and then shot out each eye while you were tweeties.
Hey, I can write lurid prose too!

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:28:27 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:38:27 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



But getting back to the subject...yep..I should be walking a lot more
than I do around the shop/yard and clients shops. Ive been swimming a
couple times a week, which helps, but access to a pool is not always
there. Though I do the treadmill and the Nordic Track religiously.

And yes..I still smoke, though NOWHERE near where I was before the
issue. In the last 18 months..Ive quit..seriously...4 times. Patches
and the whole encillada.

Im at a half pack a day. And I cant get below that. Shrug.

If it kills me..ooops. But Ive certainly been trying hard to stay
active..physically and mentally active. And get enough sleep and the
proper foods. And so forth. And I certainly stay away from the junk
food.

Actually..Ive not felt this good in many years. So pehaps its self
delusion. Shrug. When fall comes, and the weather gets better..Ill
definately start walking again. It feels good and the leg gets some use.

When its 112F and 30% humitity..it tends to drain me much more than it
did when I was younger. And..I hate the sun. Im far more of a night
person. Hence you see my postings early early in the morning before I go
to bed. Today..I woke up at 2:15, PM, PST. But I went to bed at 6 am.
Got my 8 hours sleep.

Living in the high desert has its benefits and its minuses....shrug
again.

So walk at night!

I do, but the local law enforcement tends to stop me and want to chat
for 20 minutes.

After a good bull**** sesson, I tend to simply want to go back home and
do Stuff in the shop.



Now you know my deepest secrets. G

So will you continue to carry the .380 or graduate to at the least..a
decent 38?

I've mentioned several times that my routine trail carry is now a
Ruger LCR in .38 spl loaded with Hornady +P critical defense ammo, and
that's about the only place I routinely carry.

Thats much much better than the poodle shooter. Good on you buddy!!


Now will you kick the damned smokes already? Forget the patches and
crutches, they just prolong the process. If you can ignore the
various other discomforts you mention, kicking nicotine addiction is
just one more pesky nuisance for a little while. They say the first
13 years are the toughest, but I'd say three weeks is over the hump.
After that it's no big deal but you must never forget that there's no
such thing as just one.

Its about time I tried again. I was doing pretty good ..did without for
about 4 months and then the ex wife moved back in..and a week later..the
son and daughter in law moved in..and they all smoke.

Shrug.

The son and daughter in law are gone now...been gone since Febuary..but
the ex is still here. And getting her to quit is as hard as quitting
myself.

Ill be trying again and soon.

Ill probably keep trying until they kick dirt over me..but..Ill try
again.

This will make number...hummm number 15 in my attempts.

Larry J was right: as long as you regard it as something you're
"giving up", you'll almost certainly revert. You must decide that it
is something you are rejecting and will continue to reject for your
own wellbeing.

Thats the problem..I ENJOY smoking. Its one of the very few pleasures I
have in life. I dont drink, I dont do drugs, I dont gamble, I dont
roller skate or mountain climb...shrug. Chuckle..about the only
pleasures I have in a very stressfilled life (since the economy has gone
south)..is working in the shop, playing with the dogs..and lighting up a
smoke every few hours. Oh..and bashing Leftwingers on Usenet.

If I could have kept the ex and the kids out for another few months..Id
have whooped it. I was that close.

No excuse..just an explaination.

Shrug

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:52:20 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:40:56 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:40:45 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:48:46 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:19:06 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

So you are claiming that the .380 only penetrates 2 pine boards???

I make no claim at all. I've never shot at any pine boards. Wes
said above that ammo he'd tried all penetrated at least 2 x 4. He
didn't say which direction, but I assume he meant the smaller
dimension.


Yes, the 1.5" dimension. Dry pine 2 x 4. Probably would bounce off some of my tamarack
2x4's I cut on the band mill.



Wes

I was hit smack in the middle of the forehead once when shooting FMJs
out of my little Savage 1910 .380, when the bullet bounced off a 2x12
(sun dried I admit) that was being used as a backstop, about 20 feet
away.

Didnt put me down..or even break the skin..but sure saw stars for a
minute or two.

That from a ricochet. While you were seeing stars a guy with a .380
could have drilled out your earplugs with it.


True indeed. But it the board was an opponent, Ive have punched it at
least 2x with a 45..which doesnt recochet G

Not if the board shot first, rang your gong with its paltry 200 ft-lbf
(which is rather more than a strong man can deliver with a California
framing hammer) and then shot out each eye while you were tweeties.
Hey, I can write lurid prose too!


Hey! I shot first! and got an X ring!!

It was just wearing Amor!!

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:33:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On 22 Jul 2010 23:12:26 GMT, John Doe wrote:

Gunner Asch gunnerasch gmail.com wrote:

...

and most shootings occur inside of 7 yrds.

If you are inside of 9 feet..Ill have that gun out of your hands
and stuffed up your sinus cavity before you can say oh ****!

Another not-quite-grown-up living in a fantasyland here on UseNet.
If they intended to shoot you, you would simply be dead.

So far..they have not managed to do that. Though some have tried.

Say..have you ever heard about the Tueller Drill? Perhaps you should do
something about that pathetic ignorance you display and read up on it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill
http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/T.../How.Close.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_11549909/

And so forth.

Get back to me when you actually know something.

Ill be waiting....yawn.

I've done that drill, or a variant of it. Two years ago, not back in
ancient history.

It wasn't a "cold" drill like being caught unsuspecting in totally
relaxed condition green. I think that's realistic because an
essential part of self defense is paying attention at appropriate
level. You've preached that as well. No caliber can save the unwary
from ambush.

The drill started with pistol in "ready" position, not aimed but in
hand at waist level. With no warning, the silhouette target began
advancing from 21 feet at a speed that put it in my face in well
under 2 seconds, where it would presumably do bad things to me if
still able to do so.

I eventually was able to shred center of mass and center of face
before it got to me, using .40S&W (XD), .45ACP (Colt Officer's 1911)
and .380 (Walther PPK).

I had to do one run with each gun under blackout: when the target
started moving the lights went out when I was only at ready, not
aimed. No laser, no flashlight. I still shredded it.

My one-on-one trainer started out easy but as he got to know me he
kept ramping things up to a rather surprising stress level for a
training sit by harranguing, poking, sometimes yelling, always GO, GO,
FASTER, FASTER , CONTROL THAT MUZZLE, STAY ON TARGET for 90 intense
minutes, dozens of punched and then shredded silhouettes, two or
three hundred rounds of spent brass underfoot on the floor.

When we parted company that January evening, as we went out the back
door of the range into the MN winter night and I paused for a smoke,
he said, "Damn, Don, you sure can shoot that .45!" I can't describe
how much I enjoyed hearing that from a guy like John.

Months later I learned that I was having a heart attack at the time. I
thought I just had a bad case of the flu. Felt seriously ****ty, but
it wasn't easy to get on that trainer's dance card. Mary was overseas
at the time.

Glad I didn't scrub. I had a memorably good time. John was an
excellent trainer. It was a memorable experience.

That heart attack wasn't discovered until the following May when I
felt crappy enough to go to the E.R. though I still didn't think I was
having a heart attack. After some blood enzyme work and an
echocardiogram they said I'd had two, and wouldn't have seen sunrise
if I hadn't come in that evening about suppertime.

I never see sunrise anyway, being a night person, but I took their
meaning and completely and permanently quit smoking right then and
there. No drugs, no patches, no programs, no excuses.

I'm thinkin' I might like a smoke out on the deck right about now.
Summer night, glass of nice wine, waves lapping on the shore, moon
waxing gibbous. It ain't gonna happen because I really don't want to
do that even if I had materials at hand. Tihe urge will pass in a
few seconds.

(A few seconds later) so much for that!

Fitch, a former heavy smoker, and I have agreed that if we learned
that Earth would be destroyed by a meteor in a couple of days then
we'd go buy a carton of smokes and enjoy the show.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:08:57 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


Larry J was right: as long as you regard it as something you're
"giving up", you'll almost certainly revert. You must decide that it
is something you are rejecting and will continue to reject for your
own wellbeing.

Thats the problem..I ENJOY smoking. Its one of the very few pleasures I
have in life.

Roger that bigtime. I did too.

I used to enjoy two cups of finest Assam black tea every day,
accompanied by smokes. We just last week gave away a kilo of that
wonderful tea to a nephew because we have what is now probably a
lifetime supply.

I offered some of that to anonymous troll Wayne, scared the **** out
of him. G

I used to love a cup of Velvet Hammer coffee about midafternoon, with
a smoke. Not any more. I stilll like my coffee but not with former
passion.

I used to enjoy a smoke when perched on the bun seat of my Ranger boat
while flippin' for bass and catching them with some regularity. I
still do that, but without the smoke, and it's no less fun. The cig
lighter in the boat quit working shortly before I quit anyway, and ya
flat can't light a butt with a Bic when going 50 mph in a boat.

Getting old is not for sissies. Getting dead prematurely is for the
imprudent, unlucky and those that don't adapt.

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 01:17:51 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:33:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On 22 Jul 2010 23:12:26 GMT, John Doe wrote:

Gunner Asch gunnerasch gmail.com wrote:

...

and most shootings occur inside of 7 yrds.

If you are inside of 9 feet..Ill have that gun out of your hands
and stuffed up your sinus cavity before you can say oh ****!

Another not-quite-grown-up living in a fantasyland here on UseNet.
If they intended to shoot you, you would simply be dead.

So far..they have not managed to do that. Though some have tried.

Say..have you ever heard about the Tueller Drill? Perhaps you should do
something about that pathetic ignorance you display and read up on it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill
http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/T.../How.Close.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_11549909/

And so forth.

Get back to me when you actually know something.

Ill be waiting....yawn.

I've done that drill, or a variant of it. Two years ago, not back in
ancient history.

It wasn't a "cold" drill like being caught unsuspecting in totally
relaxed condition green. I think that's realistic because an
essential part of self defense is paying attention at appropriate
level. You've preached that as well. No caliber can save the unwary
from ambush.

The drill started with pistol in "ready" position, not aimed but in
hand at waist level. With no warning, the silhouette target began
advancing from 21 feet at a speed that put it in my face in well
under 2 seconds, where it would presumably do bad things to me if
still able to do so.

I eventually was able to shred center of mass and center of face
before it got to me, using .40S&W (XD), .45ACP (Colt Officer's 1911)
and .380 (Walther PPK).

I had to do one run with each gun under blackout: when the target
started moving the lights went out when I was only at ready, not
aimed. No laser, no flashlight. I still shredded it.

My one-on-one trainer started out easy but as he got to know me he
kept ramping things up to a rather surprising stress level for a
training sit by harranguing, poking, sometimes yelling, always GO, GO,
FASTER, FASTER , CONTROL THAT MUZZLE, STAY ON TARGET for 90 intense
minutes, dozens of punched and then shredded silhouettes, two or
three hundred rounds of spent brass underfoot on the floor.

GOOD!! Bravo!!

What they dont teach you in most cases..is that you damned sure in most
cases..start running away from the guy at a diagnal to his path while
drawing your weapon. Run! and try to stay ahead of the guy until you
get the weapon out and then turn him into a bullet sponge. RUN!

And it works. Ill not tell you how I know..but it does work in most
cases.

Stay moving, keep drawing that weapon, move out of his line of attack
and away from his knife/club/hammer/broken bottle and then shoot him
repeatedly. Even if you have to drop and roll..get that weapon out and
blow out his spine as he passes you.

If you stand there..he is GOING to hurt you. Hence my comment about 9
feet and taking that weapon away from someone and sticking it up their
nose...it is very very easy to do to a stationary target who is suddenly
put into that situation. RUN! MOVE! Get Away! and then smoke his ass.

In that situation..even if the holes are in his back...its not going to
be your funeral, just his. And any good law enforcment agency is going
to discover you were getting away from the guy with the
knife/club/hammer/etc etc ..which means indeed you were in fear for
your life. Id strongly suggest putting the holes in his front rather
than his back..but that choice is yours. Use it wisely..but first and
foremost..stay alive!


When we parted company that January evening, as we went out the back
door of the range into the MN winter night and I paused for a smoke,
he said, "Damn, Don, you sure can shoot that .45!" I can't describe
how much I enjoyed hearing that from a guy like John.

G

Months later I learned that I was having a heart attack at the time. I
thought I just had a bad case of the flu. Felt seriously ****ty, but
it wasn't easy to get on that trainer's dance card. Mary was overseas
at the time.

Glad I didn't scrub. I had a memorably good time. John was an
excellent trainer. It was a memorable experience.

I wish mine had been that "easy".

That heart attack wasn't discovered until the following May when I
felt crappy enough to go to the E.R. though I still didn't think I was
having a heart attack. After some blood enzyme work and an
echocardiogram they said I'd had two, and wouldn't have seen sunrise
if I hadn't come in that evening about suppertime.

I never see sunrise anyway, being a night person, but I took their
meaning and completely and permanently quit smoking right then and
there. No drugs, no patches, no programs, no excuses.

I'm thinkin' I might like a smoke out on the deck right about now.
Summer night, glass of nice wine, waves lapping on the shore, moon
waxing gibbous. It ain't gonna happen because I really don't want to
do that even if I had materials at hand. Tihe urge will pass in a
few seconds.

(A few seconds later) so much for that!

Fitch, a former heavy smoker, and I have agreed that if we learned
that Earth would be destroyed by a meteor in a couple of days then
we'd go buy a carton of smokes and enjoy the show.

Indeed.

Keep up the good work.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Don Foreman wrote:

I'm thinkin' I might like a smoke out on the deck right about now.
Summer night, glass of nice wine, waves lapping on the shore, moon
waxing gibbous. It ain't gonna happen because I really don't want to
do that even if I had materials at hand. Tihe urge will pass in a
few seconds.

(A few seconds later) so much for that!

Fitch, a former heavy smoker, and I have agreed that if we learned
that Earth would be destroyed by a meteor in a couple of days then
we'd go buy a carton of smokes and enjoy the show.


STOPIT!

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:38:27 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote the following:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:05:53 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:


Right now at 5:06 Pm PST, as I read your post..its 101F on the shaded
front porch. Today was a cooler day than the last couple.

It should be noted that most weather reports originate from the weather
station in Bakersfield, which tends to be 5-15 degrees cooler than here
in Taft. To the best of my knowlege..there arnt any official Weather
Stations here in Taft and most data is presented by interpolation from
Bakersfield.

Campus Park/Bakersfield appears to be the closest to you.
We get Medford's predictions here and are always cooler in the summer
and warmer in the winter than they are. They also get a lot more snow
and considerably more rain when the storms wander through.


Hence..when I walked into the ER and mentioned I was having a little
chest pain..they were rather surprised I was having a heart attack,
rated 8 out of 10 in severity. 10 being moments from flat line....shrug.

My kingdom for photos of their faces when they saw the readouts.


But getting back to the subject...yep..I should be walking a lot more
than I do around the shop/yard and clients shops. Ive been swimming a
couple times a week, which helps, but access to a pool is not always
there. Though I do the treadmill and the Nordic Track religiously.

Buddhist treadmilling and skiing are new ones on me, mon.


And yes..I still smoke, though NOWHERE near where I was before the
issue. In the last 18 months..Ive quit..seriously...4 times. Patches
and the whole encillada.

Im at a half pack a day. And I cant get below that. Shrug.

Now that yo're at the point where it won't hurt much, physiologically,
it's time to make that decision. That's all smoking is, a decision.
Make the decision that you're no longer a smoker and you're home free.
I took up sugarless bubblegum for the first year afterward and it
helped with my oral fixations. Choose life, G-mon.


If it kills me..ooops. But Ive certainly been trying hard to stay
active..physically and mentally active. And get enough sleep and the
proper foods. And so forth. And I certainly stay away from the junk
food.

The old Cheetos and sugary Mountain Dew diet isn't helping, sir.


Actually..Ive not felt this good in many years. So pehaps its self
delusion. Shrug. When fall comes, and the weather gets better..Ill
definately start walking again. It feels good and the leg gets some use.

I go to bed early and get up with the roosters. 4-5am a perfect time
in the desert for a walk, should you so choose. Very light traffic,
plenty of wildlife for watching, cool weather, and very little wind. I
learned that living in Phoenix, AZ for a year. Sunrises are wonderful.


When its 112F and 30% humitity..it tends to drain me much more than it
did when I was younger. And..I hate the sun. Im far more of a night
person. Hence you see my postings early early in the morning before I go
to bed. Today..I woke up at 2:15, PM, PST. But I went to bed at 6 am.
Got my 8 hours sleep.

I imagine that your neighbors would frown on milling/grinding/welding
and hammering at 3am, though.


Living in the high desert has its benefits and its minuses....shrug
again.

Follow its natural ways and it becomes beautiful.


Now you know my deepest secrets. G

Au contraire. I wanna know where at least _one_ of your caches is
buried. bseg


So will you continue to carry the .380 or graduate to at the least..a
decent 38?

Pushy beeyatch, ain'tcha?

--
Exercise ferments the humors, casts them into their proper channels,
throws off redundancies, and helps nature in those secret distributions,
without which the body cannot subsist in its vigor, nor the soul act
with cheerfulness. -- Joseph Addison, The Spectator, July 12, 1711

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:28:27 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote the following:

Now will you kick the damned smokes already? Forget the patches and
crutches, they just prolong the process. If you can ignore the
various other discomforts you mention, kicking nicotine addiction is
just one more pesky nuisance for a little while. They say the first
13 years are the toughest, but I'd say three weeks is over the hump.
After that it's no big deal but you must never forget that there's no
such thing as just one.

As in AA, "One is too many and a dozen aren't enough." My hump came
at about 1 week, once all the nicotine was finally out of my body. I
drank all sorts of water to help flush it out; gallons upon gallons.
I learned to take deep breaths whenever the urge to smoke came on me.
If it was strong, I'd get up and walk to the door, open it, and breath
outside air, then sit down again. I think that's just the body saying
that it wants more oxygen, so deep breathing works wonders. Free, too.


Larry J was right: as long as you regard it as something you're
"giving up", you'll almost certainly revert. You must decide that it
is something you are rejecting and will continue to reject for your
own wellbeing.

Precisely. And it is that, pure and simple: a decision. Those are easy
to make, right? We do it every day.

LJ -- 25 years sober on July 8, 2010 and 22 years smoke-free last Feb.

--
Exercise ferments the humors, casts them into their proper channels,
throws off redundancies, and helps nature in those secret distributions,
without which the body cannot subsist in its vigor, nor the soul act
with cheerfulness. -- Joseph Addison, The Spectator, July 12, 1711

They say the first
13 years are the toughest, but I'd say three weeks is over the hump.
After that it's no big deal but you must never forget that there's no
such thing as just one.


It depends somewhat on genetics.

I quit for just over 10 years. Not for one single waking moment (or many
sleeping moments) did I not _violently_ crave a smoke. It was with me,
without even a second's respite, for the entire time. But I resisted it
anyway, to the detriment of my mood and physical sense of well-being.

Then I moved to South Carolina for the Y2K project. The state where ever
single mammal of any age over 13 hours smokes. They smoke indoors in
buildings marked "smoke free workplace". They smoke in stores. They
smoke EVERYWHERE, and you're surrounded by it.

I finally couldn't take it, and started back again.

Last month I had my best physical since I was 25, and I'm over 60.
Better heart rate, better BP, better cholesterol (both lower bad and
higher good, with a lower total). And better stamina than I had at age
40.

Tobacco might kill me early. But like Jackie Gleason said, "If I have to
live like that (without it), then I'd rather be dead."

LLoyd

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:38:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

If it kills me..ooops. But Ive certainly been trying hard to stay
active..physically and mentally active. And get enough sleep and the
proper foods. And so forth. And I certainly stay away from the junk
food.

The old Cheetos and sugary Mountain Dew diet isn't helping, sir.

As I stated..I stay away from junk food. I seldom eat chips and such,
and have..for at least 20 yrs, drunk only DIET Mt Dew. Which is why I
weigh less than I did when I graduated, and only 15 lbs heavier than I
did after Ranger school..though 30 lbs heavier than I did when I got
medivaced home...after 2 yrs in the bush.


Actually..Ive not felt this good in many years. So pehaps its self
delusion. Shrug. When fall comes, and the weather gets better..Ill
definately start walking again. It feels good and the leg gets some use.

I go to bed early and get up with the roosters. 4-5am a perfect time
in the desert for a walk, should you so choose. Very light traffic,
plenty of wildlife for watching, cool weather, and very little wind. I
learned that living in Phoenix, AZ for a year. Sunrises are wonderful.

Ive been getting up at 2pm, and working until 6-7 am..then sleeping
through the morning. It was only 83 at 5am..so working out in the shop
is much..much much better than in the afternoon.


When its 112F and 30% humitity..it tends to drain me much more than it
did when I was younger. And..I hate the sun. Im far more of a night
person. Hence you see my postings early early in the morning before I go
to bed. Today..I woke up at 2:15, PM, PST. But I went to bed at 6 am.
Got my 8 hours sleep.

I imagine that your neighbors would frown on milling/grinding/welding
and hammering at 3am, though.

What neighbors? I dont have any within 100 yrds and none on that side
of the house for nearly 150 yrds.

Gunner


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:07:51 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


What neighbors? I dont have any within 100 yrds and none on that side
of the house for nearly 150 yrds.

LOL Another ridiculous whopper, as anyone reading here can plainly
see.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...03208&t=h&z=19
or http://tinyurl.com/28ord53
There are a half dozen homes within 100 *feet* of your dump. And don't
bother telling your usual lie about all those homes having burned
down, because that image is from last fall, nitwit.

Wayne

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:04:20 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:


They say the first
13 years are the toughest, but I'd say three weeks is over the hump.
After that it's no big deal but you must never forget that there's no
such thing as just one.


It depends somewhat on genetics.

I quit for just over 10 years. Not for one single waking moment (or many
sleeping moments) did I not _violently_ crave a smoke. It was with me,
without even a second's respite, for the entire time. But I resisted it
anyway, to the detriment of my mood and physical sense of well-being.

Then I moved to South Carolina for the Y2K project. The state where ever
single mammal of any age over 13 hours smokes. They smoke indoors in
buildings marked "smoke free workplace". They smoke in stores. They
smoke EVERYWHERE, and you're surrounded by it.

I finally couldn't take it, and started back again.

Last month I had my best physical since I was 25, and I'm over 60.
Better heart rate, better BP, better cholesterol (both lower bad and
higher good, with a lower total). And better stamina than I had at age
40.

Tobacco might kill me early. But like Jackie Gleason said, "If I have to
live like that (without it), then I'd rather be dead."

LLoyd

Dying quickly and painlessly is FAR from the worst-case outcome.

Spehro Pefhany fired this volley in
:

Dying quickly and painlessly is FAR from the worst-case outcome.

That holds true for the other hundreds of types of cancer you can die
from that don't come from cigs.

The most common death from smoking is cardiac. Heart attacks are quick.

I'm not _hoping_ to die from the smoking, but it'll probably shorten my
lifespan by about 4 years. I'd be just as likely to die a protracted and
painful death from any of the thousands of other things that can kill me.

Don't think that "healthy-living" people all die quickly and painlessly,
or you're just fooling yourself.

I'm a VietNam vet who saw combat and got wounded in one firefight, and I
rode rescue with the FD in my late twenties. Maybe it was just putting
it in those perspectives that did it, but death isn't even in my top ten
worst things that could happen to me.

LLoyd

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:44:20 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:36:03 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


But a heads up..the .45 has more than twice the energy of the .380

Its close to 4x as much.

Lets see your math G

Let's see yours! G

I based my assertion on mfrs published data for comparable ammo.

Federal .380ACP Hydra-Shok 90 gn 200 ft lbf
Federal .45ACP Hydra-Shok 230gn 405 ft lbf

Corbon 45 ACP 165 Gr. JHP +P 572
Glaser 45 ACP 145 gr. prefragmented +P 587

Pushing 3 times the HOT load for .380
for which you offer no supporting data.

Blink blink...did you miss the above two loads???? Those 572 and 587
are Footpounds of energy.

Is your AMT .45 certified for +P ammo?

No idea. I dont push my 45 loads very hard and the AMT only gets factory
Sabres. It LIKES them.

There is data for Buffalo Bore .380 ammo clocked from a RugerrLCP at
260 ft-lbf or so. That was probably +P for which the LCP is not
certified, but it was fired from an LCP with no noted damage to
pistol or brass.

Shrug..Ive loaded 38s to .357 Mag velocities (by accident..bowing head
in shame) and fired them through a Colt Detective Special without
incident as well. But not more than a cylinder full.

Your AMT has a dependancy on the recoil spring, like most pistols, I hope you have a stiff
one to deal with the battering from +P ammo.

Since this is a metalworking group, has anyone made their own recoil spring?

Extra points for anyone that has made a magazine spring. I'd love to stand next to the
process that makes those things and observe. Not being round adds a lot of complexity to
the process imho.

As far as the next gun, I'm seriously leaning towards something in .40 S&W. At least it
starts with four The numbers look fairly good.

Wes

--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On 7/23/2010 11:31 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:07:51 -0700, Gunner
wrote:


What neighbors? I dont have any within 100 yrds and none on that side
of the house for nearly 150 yrds.

LOL Another ridiculous whopper, as anyone reading here can plainly
see.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...03208&t=h&z=19
or http://tinyurl.com/28ord53
There are a half dozen homes within 100 *feet* of your dump. And don't
bother telling your usual lie about all those homes having burned
down, because that image is from last fall, nitwit.

No matter how big an asshole someone may be, someone else who posts that
person's home address in a public forum is a bigger one.

plonk

On 7/23/2010 12:48 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Spehro fired this volley in
:

Dying quickly and painlessly is FAR from the worst-case outcome.

That holds true for the other hundreds of types of cancer you can die
from that don't come from cigs.

The most common death from smoking is cardiac. Heart attacks are quick.

I'm not _hoping_ to die from the smoking, but it'll probably shorten my
lifespan by about 4 years. I'd be just as likely to die a protracted and
painful death from any of the thousands of other things that can kill me.

Saw both my parents die of cancer. Not the way I want to go.

Don't think that "healthy-living" people all die quickly and painlessly,
or you're just fooling yourself.

I'm a VietNam vet who saw combat and got wounded in one firefight, and I
rode rescue with the FD in my late twenties. Maybe it was just putting
it in those perspectives that did it, but death isn't even in my top ten
worst things that could happen to me.

Amen.

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:17:19 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 01:44:20 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:36:03 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


But a heads up..the .45 has more than twice the energy of the .380

Its close to 4x as much.

Lets see your math G

Let's see yours! G

I based my assertion on mfrs published data for comparable ammo.

Federal .380ACP Hydra-Shok 90 gn 200 ft lbf
Federal .45ACP Hydra-Shok 230gn 405 ft lbf

Corbon 45 ACP 165 Gr. JHP +P 572
Glaser 45 ACP 145 gr. prefragmented +P 587

Pushing 3 times the HOT load for .380
for which you offer no supporting data.

Blink blink...did you miss the above two loads???? Those 572 and 587
are Footpounds of energy.

Is your AMT .45 certified for +P ammo?

No idea. I dont push my 45 loads very hard and the AMT only gets factory
Sabres. It LIKES them.

There is data for Buffalo Bore .380 ammo clocked from a RugerrLCP at
260 ft-lbf or so. That was probably +P for which the LCP is not
certified, but it was fired from an LCP with no noted damage to
pistol or brass.

Shrug..Ive loaded 38s to .357 Mag velocities (by accident..bowing head
in shame) and fired them through a Colt Detective Special without
incident as well. But not more than a cylinder full.

Your AMT has a dependancy on the recoil spring, like most pistols, I hope you have a stiff
one to deal with the battering from +P ammo.

Its actually locked breach, delayed blowback..but yes..the recoil spring
IS critical.

Since this is a metalworking group, has anyone made their own recoil spring?

Extra points for anyone that has made a magazine spring. I'd love to stand next to the
process that makes those things and observe. Not being round adds a lot of complexity to
the process imho.

As far as the next gun, I'm seriously leaning towards something in .40 S&W. At least it
starts with four The numbers look fairly good.

Wes

Its a very good cartridge.

Gunner


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:38:44 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 7/23/2010 11:31 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:07:51 -0700, Gunner
wrote:


What neighbors? I dont have any within 100 yrds and none on that side
of the house for nearly 150 yrds.

LOL Another ridiculous whopper, as anyone reading here can plainly
see.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...03208&t=h&z=19
or http://tinyurl.com/28ord53
There are a half dozen homes within 100 *feet* of your dump. And don't
bother telling your usual lie about all those homes having burned
down, because that image is from last fall, nitwit.

No matter how big an asshole someone may be, someone else who posts that
person's home address in a public forum is a bigger one.

He's posted his own address perhaps hundreds of times. Here's a recent
example. "326 Olive Ave Taft, California, 93268 Please let me know at
least 4 days before your arrival, so I can schedule your visit.
Backhoe is filled with fuel, tires are good, everything is working
properly Ill be waiting"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....799d3434fb1fc9

Having made it easy to see that his lot is about 50'X100', one of his
favorite whoppers nonetheless is to brag about living on "acreage"
where he has no neighbors. Insufficiently embarrassed at having that
tale repeatedly debunked, he keeps challenging folks to show proof of
any lie he's ever told. Here's a recent example of that. "I and the
other readers will be waiting for you to trot out those Lies, and your
proofs that they are indeed ....lies"
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.m...af8d4bf9a06707

He must like the result of telling the whoppers and making the
challenges, otherwise he'd stop doing both, right?

Anyway, back to his most recent specific claim of not having any
neighbors within 100 yds. Click on "sat" here
http://tinyurl.com/26ycx3q to see a map with a 100 yd radius circle
around his place. I count ~20 homes. Either that's some large value of
zero, he doesn't know how far 100 yds is, or he just thinks that some
readers are beyond stupid.

Wayne

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:38:44 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 7/23/2010 11:31 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:07:51 -0700, Gunner
wrote:


What neighbors? I dont have any within 100 yrds and none on that side
of the house for nearly 150 yrds.

LOL Another ridiculous whopper, as anyone reading here can plainly
see.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...03208&t=h&z=19
or http://tinyurl.com/28ord53
There are a half dozen homes within 100 *feet* of your dump. And don't
bother telling your usual lie about all those homes having burned
down, because that image is from last fall, nitwit.

No matter how big an asshole someone may be, someone else who posts that
person's home address in a public forum is a bigger one.

plonk

Whine always brings up that picture. Last fall eh? Got cites? There
are things in that picture..which havent been there for over 2 yrs.
Perhaps he is mistaken? Or is simply another manifestation of his lies.

What he doesnt understand....is the structure to the south of me, is
empty and declared. The owners live to the south west..on the far
corner of olive and wood. About 150 yrds away They use the yard for
storage for their "construction business"

Olive Ave is well over 125 feet wide at its narrowist. Its a very wide
street as it was used to haul oilfield materials up into the oil patch
(scroll to the south a fair distance..you will see a hill rising and
then its all oilfields and desert.

The structure to the north of me, is empty and declared

The structure to the southeast of me is empty and for rent..has been for
over a year. The house to the North East of me is empty and has a 6'
wooden fence around it.

The house across the street on the corner..is empty and declared.
The house directly across the street is empty and for rent.has been for
nearly a year. Latinos were living in it..and its not in very good
condition.

If you note the empty lots around me..they had houses on them 5-10 yrs
ago..empty and declared. They were burned or torn down by vandals or the
one time owner of all the property..Jameson Trust..who unloaded the
property over the past 10 or so years.

If you click on the max zoom and go to street level...and travel
around..you will note a white Ford Escort in front of my house. That
belonged to my ex girl friend..who I broke up with well over 2 yrs ago.
So we know that those photos are at the very least...2 yrs old or more.

In fact..they are close to 4 yrs old. If you look down the alley behind
my home..you will see a white van. I gave that away 3 yrs ago to a
friend of mine..and put up a large sheetmetal fence in...hummm 2007?

http://picasaweb.google.com/gunneras...25006569125490

You will notice the date of the photos? July of 2008? The fence had
been up for about a year at that time. A smidge over 3 yrs ago...so its
obvious that he is lying as usual. Pity that he doesnt have the skills
to put together even a competent lie.

If you will notice the houses around are empty even then.
Across Wood Street, 748...you will note a house under construction.
That house was started in 2004. These photos are from somewhere around
2006 and 2008. The house is completed now..but is still vacant and has
been for over 18 months. Never had a tenent in it. Notice that it took
over 6 yrs to start and finish the house?

Depressed economies in small towns tend to do that....

Whine is more than free to browse around and try to make his case.
VBG

Damned shame he never had any classes in photo interp. I did, a number
of them in fact..and can point out any number of issues Whine has with
his post.

But then..he is the usual, mentally Ill leftwinger and as such..is
pretty ****ing lame. And he IS fun to watch floundering around on Usenet
in his hate ..the drool trickling down his chin..the crotch of his pants
wet and yellow.

If it wasnt so funny..it would be tragic.

Like seeing the ass end of a horse sticking out of the windshield of a
Lexus. Tragic...but still funny.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"J. Clarke" wrote

No matter how big an asshole someone may be, someone else who posts that
person's home address in a public forum is a bigger one.

plonk

Things like that have gotten people's asses whooped. OR worse.

I must have already plinked that person, as I did not see their post that
you commented on.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:14:35 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"RBnDFW" wrote
I was hit smack in the middle of the forehead once when shooting FMJs
out of my little Savage 1910 .380, when the bullet bounced off a 2x12
(sun dried I admit) that was being used as a backstop, about 20 feet
away.

Didnt put me down..or even break the skin..but sure saw stars for a
minute or two.

Gunner

Good thing you aren't a poodle!

My Dad got me a BB gun when I was a kid. Probably 55+ years ago. It was
a
crack back, and only held one bb at a time. He cocked it, and put a bb in
it. We decided on a car fender out in the desert to shoot at. In slow
motion, I watched that bb go over, hit the fender, bounce back and land
right in my eye. My dad rolled down my eyelid, and it rolled out, I guess
it didn't mess anything up too bad. Back in those days you didn't take
kids
or dogs to the vet unless it was something real bad. But I still remember
that in slow motion.

Steve

So why didn't you duck? G

I did, but since it was all in slow motion, I didn't move in time.

Steve g

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:09:24 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote

No matter how big an asshole someone may be, someone else who posts that
person's home address in a public forum is a bigger one.

plonk

Things like that have gotten people's asses whooped. OR worse.

Gummer has posted his own address perhaps hundreds of times. Maybe
your theory explains why he works so hard at whooping his own ass, and
worse.

Wayne

On 7/24/2010 1:09 PM, Steve B wrote:
"J. wrote

No matter how big an asshole someone may be, someone else who posts that
person's home address in a public forum is a bigger one.

plonk

Things like that have gotten people's asses whooped. OR worse.

I must have already plinked that person, as I did not see their post that
you commented on.

He did it indirectly with a link to Google Maps.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:07:51 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote the following:

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:38:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

If it kills me..ooops. But Ive certainly been trying hard to stay
active..physically and mentally active. And get enough sleep and the
proper foods. And so forth. And I certainly stay away from the junk
food.

The old Cheetos and sugary Mountain Dew diet isn't helping, sir.

As I stated..I stay away from junk food. I seldom eat chips and such,
and have..for at least 20 yrs, drunk only DIET Mt Dew. Which is why I

Oh, Diet Dew. Zero nutrition, like water, but water is much better
for you. No chemicals and dyes to excrete, process, or absorb.


weigh less than I did when I graduated, and only 15 lbs heavier than I
did after Ranger school..though 30 lbs heavier than I did when I got
medivaced home...after 2 yrs in the bush.

That's probably a Good Thing(tm), huh?


Actually..Ive not felt this good in many years. So pehaps its self
delusion. Shrug. When fall comes, and the weather gets better..Ill
definately start walking again. It feels good and the leg gets some use.

I go to bed early and get up with the roosters. 4-5am a perfect time
in the desert for a walk, should you so choose. Very light traffic,
plenty of wildlife for watching, cool weather, and very little wind. I
learned that living in Phoenix, AZ for a year. Sunrises are wonderful.

Ive been getting up at 2pm, and working until 6-7 am..then sleeping
through the morning. It was only 83 at 5am..so working out in the shop
is much..much much better than in the afternoon.

I thought you cooled better than that at night. Suckage, sir. Still,
5am is no time to start milling, grinding, or hammering when you have
neighbors that close.


When its 112F and 30% humitity..it tends to drain me much more than it
did when I was younger. And..I hate the sun. Im far more of a night
person. Hence you see my postings early early in the morning before I go
to bed. Today..I woke up at 2:15, PM, PST. But I went to bed at 6 am.
Got my 8 hours sleep.

I imagine that your neighbors would frown on milling/grinding/welding
and hammering at 3am, though.

What neighbors? I dont have any within 100 yrds and none on that side
of the house for nearly 150 yrds.

Oh, that's right. Your dog-kennel side neighbor just moved (real
wonder, that), the babelicious little blonde meth freak across the
street moved after her house burned down. But I thought you had
someone living right behind your alley, diagonally behind you. Y'know,
within 50 feet of the shop.

It's a good thing that compliance officer was at your door last year,
keeping your neighborhood looking nice for all those people. feh!

Then again, I'd think that metalshopping is too noisy for that early
hour for anyone within a mile in direct view of your shop.

--
Exercise ferments the humors, casts them into their proper channels,
throws off redundancies, and helps nature in those secret distributions,
without which the body cannot subsist in its vigor, nor the soul act
with cheerfulness. -- Joseph Addison, The Spectator, July 12, 1711

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On 7/24/2010 1:09 PM, Steve B wrote:
"J. wrote

No matter how big an asshole someone may be, someone else who posts that
person's home address in a public forum is a bigger one.

plonk

Things like that have gotten people's asses whooped. OR worse.

I must have already plinked that person, as I did not see their post that
you commented on.

He did it indirectly with a link to Google Maps.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

IIRC, that was about one of our most prolific posters who lives somewhere
north of Barstow. I did see it, but didn't pay it one bit of attention. I
figured it was from some coward who didn't have the balls to actually go
visit the man and discuss it one on one. I was going to save it, though,
as, like the Statue of Liberty, I would one day like to go see it. But on a
friendly basis, and take an empty 3/4 ton truck, and perhaps a good sized
trailer. And cash.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 15:55:27 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:07:51 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote the following:

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:38:11 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

and have..for at least 20 yrs, drunk only DIET Mt Dew.

Oh, Diet Dew. Zero nutrition, like water, but water is much better
for you. No chemicals and dyes to excrete, process, or absorb.

For the moment, let's ignore the fact that drinking that crap will
increase the cost of his healthcare to society while simultaneously
twisting his thumb in the eyes of those who believed that he should
show a little gratitude at having hundreds of thousands spent to save
his decrepit ass. Instead, just focus on the personal economics - the
money he wastes on dew and smokes has helped decrease his
self-sufficiency to the point that he's the last person in the world
who should be yakking about conservatism and survivalism. He's a joke
whose last ridiculous hope is use his guns to take what he's been too
lazy to earn.

It was only 83 at 5am

I thought you cooled better than that at night

You thought right. What are the odds that an "acreage" owning, 2'
centipede whopper factory, who happens to be making lame excuses for
doing anything other than posting to Usenet, would exaggerate?

What neighbors? I dont have any within 100 yrds and none on that side
of the house for nearly 150 yrds.

Oh, that's right. Your dog-kennel side neighbor just moved (real
wonder, that),

Yeah, imagine. Nothing like living in a place like Taft, *and* having
a ****head neighbor with 20 dogs.

I thought you had
someone living right behind your alley, diagonally behind you. Y'know,
within 50 feet of the shop.

How can he have a neighbor within 50' when he says he lives on:

"several acres"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....5d25863209cdc3

"I dont have any neighbors. I own a quarter of an entire
block..and all the houses are Gone in that quarter, except for mine"
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...06c5ec3716c02c

Oh wait, I see how you could be confused, what with him now admitting
that there *are* homes all around him, but that they just happen to be
empty.

It's a good thing that compliance officer was at your door last year,
keeping your neighborhood looking nice for all those people. feh!

How nice that he's been ignoring his tax bills for decades while
forcing his county has to spend money trying to get him to clean up
that dump.

Then again, I'd think that metalshopping is too noisy for that early
hour for anyone within a mile in direct view of your shop.

LOL A mile? You obviously know that the lots are 50' wide. Next he'll
be claiming that the 100 houses on either side of him are empty. But
what I'm looking forward to is an explanation snorf for why all his
crap is crammed into a tiny space in his backyard, given his vast real
estate holdings. Too funny.

Wayne

On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 16:36:47 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On 7/24/2010 1:09 PM, Steve B wrote:
"J. wrote

No matter how big an asshole someone may be, someone else who posts that
person's home address in a public forum is a bigger one.

plonk

Things like that have gotten people's asses whooped. OR worse.

I must have already plinked that person, as I did not see their post that
you commented on.

He did it indirectly with a link to Google Maps.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

IIRC, that was about one of our most prolific posters who lives somewhere
north of Barstow. I did see it, but didn't pay it one bit of attention. I
figured it was from some coward who didn't have the balls to actually go
visit the man and discuss it one on one.

He or she is very careful to remain anonymous and hidden. Regard his
posts as usenet graffiti.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 16:36:47 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On 7/24/2010 1:09 PM, Steve B wrote:
"J. wrote

No matter how big an asshole someone may be, someone else who posts
that
person's home address in a public forum is a bigger one.

plonk

Things like that have gotten people's asses whooped. OR worse.

I must have already plinked that person, as I did not see their post
that
you commented on.

He did it indirectly with a link to Google Maps.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

IIRC, that was about one of our most prolific posters who lives somewhere
north of Barstow. I did see it, but didn't pay it one bit of attention.
I
figured it was from some coward who didn't have the balls to actually go
visit the man and discuss it one on one.

He or she is very careful to remain anonymous and hidden. Regard his
posts as usenet graffiti.

Don't know about you, but the men who actually kicked my ass mostly never
said two words. The quiet ones are the dangerous ones.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On 7/25/2010 12:21 AM, Steve B wrote:
"Don wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 16:36:47 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"J. wrote in message
...
On 7/24/2010 1:09 PM, Steve B wrote:
"J. wrote

No matter how big an asshole someone may be, someone else who posts
that
person's home address in a public forum is a bigger one.

plonk

Things like that have gotten people's asses whooped. OR worse.

I must have already plinked that person, as I did not see their post
that
you commented on.

He did it indirectly with a link to Google Maps.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

IIRC, that was about one of our most prolific posters who lives somewhere
north of Barstow. I did see it, but didn't pay it one bit of attention.
I
figured it was from some coward who didn't have the balls to actually go
visit the man and discuss it one on one.

He or she is very careful to remain anonymous and hidden. Regard his
posts as usenet graffiti.

Don't know about you, but the men who actually kicked my ass mostly never
said two words. The quiet ones are the dangerous ones.

I remember a conversation between two guys I know. One is a little
skinny old guy wait-listed for a heart transplant. He's wearing a bulky
black jacket and a hat that says "Lethal Force Institute". The other is
this big hulking young fellow. Young fellow says "What happens if I
don't pay you quite a lot of money that was owed". Old guy says, in
the same tones as one would use to give the time of day, "I'll kill ya"
and walks off. Young guy turns to me and says "He's never really killed
anybody, has he?". Being familiar with the old guy's service record, I
say "Yep" and walk off, not mentioning that it was in Vietnam almost
half a century ago. Young guy goes chasing after old guy checkbook in
hand. There's a lesson there, somewhere.

Of course the old guy _could_ deliver--I remember him working a would be
mugger over with a mini-maglite.

"wmbjkREMOVE" wrote:

"Steve B" wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote

No matter how big an asshole someone may be, someone else who
posts that person's home address in a public forum is a bigger
one.

plonk

Things like that have gotten people's asses whooped. OR worse.

Gummer has posted his own address perhaps hundreds of times.
Maybe your theory explains why he works so hard at whooping his
own ass, and worse.

lol