Need some advice, here...

I occasionally wish I had a small mill, but can't really afford to go
out and buy one. I was going to modify my 7x14 mini-lathe to accept a
small vertically mounted vise where the tool holder normally goes, in
order to use it for the odd milling operation.

Then, a local company started selling these:

http://www.wddm-machine.com/pro_show.asp?ID=51

That is, the one on the left, the WDM ZX7016. A better pictu

http://www.jula.no/bore-fresemaskin-125693

Click the magnifying glass in that picture for a large version.

It costs about a third of what importers charge for a typical mini-mill
over here. Now, I know it's just a sturdy vertical drill with an X/Y
table, but it does feel really solid and stable (it weighs 165 lbs
without the stand shown in the picture), and even if I don't lock the Z
axis, I can't detect any slop whatsoever in the quill, even when cranked
all the way down.

I'm sorely tempted. However, I notice a couple of details that I'm
unsure of. The spindle taper is MT2, whereas it seems most tooling
offered out there is R8. The importer does supply a nice looking collet
chuck in MT2, though. Possibly worse: I'm wondering if I'm going to be
cursing that table every time I use it, because it lacks a central T
slot...? It seems to me every picture I see of anything at all mounted
on a coordinate table uses the center slot, which someone must have
plain forgotten to draw when the plans for this mill were made.

-tih
--
There is no such thing as failure. Only giving up too soon. --Jonas Salk

Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:
Need some advice, here...

I occasionally wish I had a small mill, but can't really afford to go
out and buy one. I was going to modify my 7x14 mini-lathe to accept a
small vertically mounted vise where the tool holder normally goes, in
order to use it for the odd milling operation.

Then, a local company started selling these:

http://www.wddm-machine.com/pro_show.asp?ID=51

Personally I would look for a second hand machine of a better quality.
But whether that's right for you I can't say. Would you rather have a
small, brand new machine of uncertain quality, or an older machine that
shows signs of use, but is larger and more robust?

Chris

Agree with Chris. Besides, the pix and advert copy imply it is intended only for drilling, not
"mill/drilling".

Bob Swinney
"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:
Need some advice, here...

I occasionally wish I had a small mill, but can't really afford to go
out and buy one. I was going to modify my 7x14 mini-lathe to accept a
small vertically mounted vise where the tool holder normally goes, in
order to use it for the odd milling operation.

Then, a local company started selling these:

http://www.wddm-machine.com/pro_show.asp?ID=51

Personally I would look for a second hand machine of a better quality.
But whether that's right for you I can't say. Would you rather have a
small, brand new machine of uncertain quality, or an older machine that
shows signs of use, but is larger and more robust?

Chris

One thing I did notice was the lack of a graduated Z feed. That makes
surface finishing to a size very difficult.
It looks like a drill press with an XY table. Great for drilling and
it would do some milling but it isn't a proper mill.
However, you get what you pay for. I would go with Chris, see what you
can find second hand. In the mean time, by all means fit a work holder
onto your lathe. It's a cheap mod that will do some types of work.

John

On 2010-03-22, Robert Swinney wrote:
Agree with Chris. Besides, the pix and advert copy imply it is intended only for drilling, not
"mill/drilling".

It looks like a drill press to me with MT2 spindle.

i

Bob Swinney
"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:
Need some advice, here...

I occasionally wish I had a small mill, but can't really afford to go
out and buy one. I was going to modify my 7x14 mini-lathe to accept a
small vertically mounted vise where the tool holder normally goes, in
order to use it for the odd milling operation.

Then, a local company started selling these:

http://www.wddm-machine.com/pro_show.asp?ID=51

Personally I would look for a second hand machine of a better quality.
But whether that's right for you I can't say. Would you rather have a
small, brand new machine of uncertain quality, or an older machine that
shows signs of use, but is larger and more robust?

Chris

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:37:42 +0100, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
wrote:
snip
The spindle taper is MT2, whereas it seems most tooling
offered out there is R8. The importer does supply a nice looking collet
chuck in MT2, though. Possibly worse: I'm wondering if I'm going to be
cursing that table every time I use it, because it lacks a central T
slot...?
snip
#2MT spindle should not be a show stopper if this has a pull bolt
to allow #2MT collets. You will be limited to 1/2 inch dimeter
shank tooling, but again given the size of the machine this
should not be a show stopper.

One source of #2MT collets is The Litle Machine Shop.
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...1752&category=
Actually you will most likely only use the 3/8 and 1/2 sizes
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...gory=874479994

If you need a drawbar, frequently you can use a socket head cap
screw [allen bolt] of the correct size.

also ER 25 collet adapters. Drawback is the loss in spindle to
table clearence -- benefit is you can use 5/8 shank tooling.
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...2230&category=
http://hhip.com/products/product_vie...ctID=3900-5210

You can bolt a sub plate of aluminum to your table and drill and
tap all the locating/clamping holes desired/required. One trick
here is to drill/ream for 2 dowel pins to locate the plate
parallel to the table slots without the need to indicate.

The mill drills do offer a larger work envelope, but if you do
mainly small items a milling adapter for ypur lathe, possibly
home brewed using the compound or top slide for vertical movement
will be less expensive and adequate to your needs. For one
example see
http://mcduffee-associates.us/machin...theMilling.htm

for an econo store bought version see
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...1681&category=
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...2894&category=
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...1956&category=

for the high priced spread see
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3
or try ebay.

If you go with the lathe milling adapter you will still need a
cutter holder as a drill chuck is totally inadequate.
http://www.hhip.com/products/catalog...php?CatPage=93
{these are even longer than the ER25 holders}


Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" wrote in message
...
Need some advice, here...

I occasionally wish I had a small mill, but can't really afford to go
out and buy one. I was going to modify my 7x14 mini-lathe to accept a
small vertically mounted vise where the tool holder normally goes, in
order to use it for the odd milling operation.

Then, a local company started selling these:

http://www.wddm-machine.com/pro_show.asp?ID=51

That is, the one on the left, the WDM ZX7016. A better pictu

http://www.jula.no/bore-fresemaskin-125693

Click the magnifying glass in that picture for a large version.

It costs about a third of what importers charge for a typical mini-mill
over here. Now, I know it's just a sturdy vertical drill with an X/Y
table, but it does feel really solid and stable (it weighs 165 lbs
without the stand shown in the picture), and even if I don't lock the Z
axis, I can't detect any slop whatsoever in the quill, even when cranked
all the way down.

I'm sorely tempted. However, I notice a couple of details that I'm
unsure of. The spindle taper is MT2, whereas it seems most tooling
offered out there is R8. The importer does supply a nice looking collet
chuck in MT2, though. Possibly worse: I'm wondering if I'm going to be
cursing that table every time I use it, because it lacks a central T
slot...? It seems to me every picture I see of anything at all mounted
on a coordinate table uses the center slot, which someone must have
plain forgotten to draw when the plans for this mill were made.


Many good insights have already been posed on this. Also:

The bottom speed is quite high.
The spindle travel is minuscule. I see you can also move the head (like in
the Rong Fu mills) but you will lose the XY indexing doing this.

I suspect that if you buy you will regret it. I bought my X2 at almost
exactly the same price - before MVA. If I knew then what I know now I would
have splashed out for an X3. But I suspect even an X2 would be a better
match for your 7x14 lathe.

How easy is it to import into Norway? Will they sting you with additional
taxes and duties or just MVA? I see the price is inclusive of MVA - what is
the MVA rate in Norway? If the prices of mini-mills are three times those in
North America, is it worth looking at importing?

But I suspect that you have already looked at all this yourself...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Mar 22, 5:25*pm, Ignoramus7894
wrote:
On 2010-03-22, Robert Swinney wrote:

Agree with Chris. *Besides, the pix and advert copy imply it is intended only for drilling, not
"mill/drilling".

It looks like a drill press to me with MT2 spindle.

i

They claim it's "For både boring og fresing.", I didn't see what
materials it can mill, though. Steel is far more difficult than
aluminum.

MT2 isn't a big problem as long as you can buy metric collets.

The issue with the tee slots is clamping down the milling vise. If it
has lugs on the side they may be in the wrong place. Lengthwise slots
in the sides would make clamping easier.

jsw

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:37:42 +0100, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
wrote:

Need some advice, here...

I occasionally wish I had a small mill, but can't really afford to go
out and buy one. I was going to modify my 7x14 mini-lathe to accept a
small vertically mounted vise where the tool holder normally goes, in
order to use it for the odd milling operation.

Then, a local company started selling these:

http://www.wddm-machine.com/pro_show.asp?ID=51

That is, the one on the left, the WDM ZX7016. A better pictu

http://www.jula.no/bore-fresemaskin-125693

Click the magnifying glass in that picture for a large version.

It costs about a third of what importers charge for a typical mini-mill
over here. Now, I know it's just a sturdy vertical drill with an X/Y
table, but it does feel really solid and stable (it weighs 165 lbs
without the stand shown in the picture), and even if I don't lock the Z
axis, I can't detect any slop whatsoever in the quill, even when cranked
all the way down.

I'm sorely tempted. However, I notice a couple of details that I'm
unsure of. The spindle taper is MT2, whereas it seems most tooling
offered out there is R8. The importer does supply a nice looking collet
chuck in MT2, though. Possibly worse: I'm wondering if I'm going to be
cursing that table every time I use it, because it lacks a central T
slot...? It seems to me every picture I see of anything at all mounted
on a coordinate table uses the center slot, which someone must have
plain forgotten to draw when the plans for this mill were made.

-tih

Morse taper is fine for drilling, unacceptable for milling unless
there's a drawbar to hold the cutter firmly in place.

On Mar 23, 1:23*am, Don Foreman wrote:
....
Morse taper is fine for drilling, unacceptable for milling unless
there's a drawbar to hold the cutter firmly in place. *

Let me slightly qualify that statement. My 50-year-old milling machine
has the almost identical Brown and Sharpe #7 taper. I bought quite a
few endmills with tanged (not threaded) B&S 7 shanks when Wholesale
Tool closed them out. If the spindle and arbor are very clean and the
endmill is tapped in rather firmly they do work well. I have used them
only for light finish cuts and fishmouthing pipe for welding, since
they are considerably larger than the largest endmills that fit my
collets.

I've had good results welding extra metal onto butchered Morse tangs
to make them pop out of the tailstock on my lathe. I think you could
weld on a nut and make a drawbar out of allthread, with two nuts
jammed together at the top so you can adjust the length, and be able
to remove the drawbar if the weld breaks.

Bottom line, tanged Morse tools aren't -completely- unacceptable if
you are careful and go slowly. They are something I have to put up
with due to the obsolete spindle taper.

jsw

Jim Wilkins writes:

On Mar 22, 5:25*pm, Ignoramus7894
wrote:
On 2010-03-22, Robert Swinney wrote:

Agree with Chris. *Besides, the pix and advert copy imply it is intended only for drilling, not
"mill/drilling".

It looks like a drill press to me with MT2 spindle.

They claim it's "For både boring og fresing.", [...]

....meaning "for drilling and milling". The manufacturer claims it can
do 40 mm (1.5") face milling and 10 mm (3/8") plunge milling. Still, it
*is* primarily a drill press, of course.

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

F. George McDuffee writes:

#2MT spindle should not be a show stopper if this has a pull bolt
to allow #2MT collets.

It does come with a draw bar - in fact, the included drill chuck is
fitted using an #2MT/B16 shank that's held by the draw bar.

One source of #2MT collets is The Litle Machine Shop.

Ah, nice! I have a 3/8" set of end mills already, so an MT2 3/8" collet
would be all I need to get this thing working.

You can bolt a sub plate of aluminum to your table and drill and
tap all the locating/clamping holes desired/required. One trick
here is to drill/ream for 2 dowel pins to locate the plate
parallel to the table slots without the need to indicate.

Ah, cool! I could make an adapter for something like this:

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=3769

....and end up with something that mounts quickly and cleanly.

[lots of good links elided]

Unka George (George McDuffee)

Thanks for taking the time to instruct!

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

"Michael Koblic" writes:

The bottom speed is quite high.

Really? It goes down to 320 RPM. How low would one want a mill to go?

How easy is it to import into Norway? Will they sting you with
additional taxes and duties or just MVA?

Well, importing something as heavy as a milling machine means the cost
of shipping will exceed the cost of the machine. Then, there's the 25%
sales tax, which applies to the cost of the machine *and* shipping.
Basically, it's not worth it.

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:37:42 +0100, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
wrote:


Need some advice, here...

I occasionally wish I had a small mill, but can't really afford to go
out and buy one. I was going to modify my 7x14 mini-lathe to accept a
small vertically mounted vise where the tool holder normally goes, in
order to use it for the odd milling operation.

Then, a local company started selling these:

http://www.wddm-machine.com/pro_show.asp?ID=51

That is, the one on the left, the WDM ZX7016. A better pictu

http://www.jula.no/bore-fresemaskin-125693

Click the magnifying glass in that picture for a large version.

It costs about a third of what importers charge for a typical mini-mill
over here. Now, I know it's just a sturdy vertical drill with an X/Y
table, but it does feel really solid and stable (it weighs 165 lbs
without the stand shown in the picture), and even if I don't lock the Z
axis, I can't detect any slop whatsoever in the quill, even when cranked
all the way down.

I'm sorely tempted. However, I notice a couple of details that I'm
unsure of. The spindle taper is MT2, whereas it seems most tooling
offered out there is R8. The importer does supply a nice looking collet
chuck in MT2, though. Possibly worse: I'm wondering if I'm going to be
cursing that table every time I use it, because it lacks a central T
slot...? It seems to me every picture I see of anything at all mounted
on a coordinate table uses the center slot, which someone must have
plain forgotten to draw when the plans for this mill were made.

-tih


Morse taper is fine for drilling, unacceptable for milling unless
there's a drawbar to hold the cutter firmly in place.

This would make a decent small drillpress, and a rather poor mill, as
you correctly surmise. Still, if the price is right, it would probably
be better than a milling attachment in a small lathe. I also agree that
a drawbar is essentially REQUIRED. I've seen a few similar small
mill-drills (drillpress based) ... most have had some kind of drawbar
.... perhaps 'wimpy', but probably "OK" for such a small machine.

A Morse taper alone will not hold adequately for most milling unless
seated FAR to tight to get out easily. A few early mills used only a
Morse taper, sometimes with NO drawbar. It was a bad idea, but worked,
sometimes, maybe. Even when the taper is properly seated, an interrupted
cut can work the cutter loose. That's NO fun at all! You REALLY want a
drawbar.

While much harder to find, and likely more expensive, than R8 tooling, a
fair selection of M2 Morse Taper tooling is available (drill chucks,
collets, endmill holders, boring heads, flycutters, slitting-saw arbors,
etc.). I think any you find today will have a threaded socket for a
drawbar, usually 3/8" (at least in the "English" world).

I have a little BenchMaster horizontal/vertical mill that uses M2 tapers
and a 3/8 drawbar. It's completely satisfactory for it's size. The only
issue with the M2 taper is that, once a tool is seated with the drawbar,
it often takes a pretty good WHACK on the drawbar to unseat it. Morse
tapers are said to be "self-locking", while R8 tapers are
"self-releasing" (both, sort-of). Such a jolt can't be the best for the
spindle bearings, but really has caused no problems in many years of use.

Dan Mitchell
============

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Mar 23, 1:23 am, Don Foreman wrote:

....
Morse taper is fine for drilling, unacceptable for milling unless
there's a drawbar to hold the cutter firmly in place.


Let me slightly qualify that statement. My 50-year-old milling machine
has the almost identical Brown and Sharpe #7 taper. I bought quite a
few endmills with tanged (not threaded) B&S 7 shanks when Wholesale
Tool closed them out. If the spindle and arbor are very clean and the
endmill is tapped in rather firmly they do work well. I have used them
only for light finish cuts and fishmouthing pipe for welding, since
they are considerably larger than the largest endmills that fit my
collets.

I've had good results welding extra metal onto butchered Morse tangs
to make them pop out of the tailstock on my lathe. I think you could
weld on a nut and make a drawbar out of allthread, with two nuts
jammed together at the top so you can adjust the length, and be able
to remove the drawbar if the weld breaks.

Bottom line, tanged Morse tools aren't -completely- unacceptable if
you are careful and go slowly. They are something I have to put up
with due to the obsolete spindle taper.

jsw
Ah, yes, the Wholesale Tool closeouts! I got some of these too, in M2
shanks, and already had some from who-knows-where MANY years earlier (I
inherited a bunch from my dad). Yes, all I have without drawbar threads
are tanged. All mine appear quite ancient. While all I have are M2
shank, I've seen much larger versions.

A few have a right-hand cut and a left-hand helix, that would tend to
seat then tighter into the taper. Those with a right-hand helix have
only a very slight helix angle. A high angle right-hand helix with a
right-hand cut was probably a receipe for disaster. A number have
straight teeth with no helix. These look similar to reamers, but have
far more aggressive edges.

Such cutters were apparently used mostly in very early days, and
possibly only for cetain kinds of work. Obviously they worked if
properly seated, at least most of the time, maybe. There may even have
been some other locking mechanisms used at times (still are today).
Since then, drawbars have became largely universal. It's obvious that
there were problems with the simpler setup, and that a drawbar was the
easiest solution.

Dan Mitchell
============

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

danmitch writes:

This would make a decent small drillpress, and a rather poor mill, as
you correctly surmise. Still, if the price is right, it would probably
be better than a milling attachment in a small lathe.

That's mostly where I'm at in my thinking, so far. Used equipment is
seldom seen on the Norwegian market, and when it is, it tends to be big
and heavy commercial machines, with asking prices way out of my range.
I have to compare it to a milling attachment for my mini-lathe, and it
does seem to come out of that comparison pretty well.

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

On Mar 23, 2:56*pm, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:
danmitch writes:
This would make a decent small drillpress, and a rather poor mill, as
you correctly surmise. Still, if the price is right, it would probably
be better than a milling attachment in a small lathe.

That's mostly where I'm at in my thinking, so far. *Used equipment is
seldom seen on the Norwegian market, and when it is, it tends to be big
and heavy commercial machines, with asking prices way out of my range.
I have to compare it to a milling attachment for my mini-lathe, and it
does seem to come out of that comparison pretty well.

-tih

Here's Varmint Al's take:
http://www.varmintal.com/alath.htm#Milling_Attachment
The various bits are so low priced, you could make the attachment AND
get the mill/drill if that's what you wanted. I'd still make/buy a
drawbar setup for holding the milling cutters in the lathe, though,
mill shanks will walk out of chucks. Little Machineshop also has both
the drawbar and the "official" mini-lathe milling attachment.

Stan

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:06:18 +0100, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
wrote:
snip
One source of #2MT collets is The Litle Machine Shop.

Ah, nice! I have a 3/8" set of end mills already, so an MT2 3/8" collet
would be all I need to get this thing working.
snip
As you are in the EEC and will get hit with the VAT, English/UK
suppliers may be your better bet. Home Shop Machining appears to
be much more popular in the UK than the US, and the suppliers
there seem to have much more for the home shop. Be careful about
the drawbar threads as these come in all 3 flavors.

see
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/...288311#a288311
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/...3aCS2MI#aCS2MI

for lathe milling attachments see
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/C...ie s_101.html

Depending on what you are milling, a 6 inch right angle plate
with several clamps can be better than a vise in that it is much
more adjustible and somewhat less expensive. The trade-off is
that set-ups take longer.

For some hints on mounting a precision vise to your mill see
http://www.mini-lathe.com/mini_mill/...ises/vises.htm
{about 2/3 of the way down page}
http://www.instructables.com/id/maki...lling_machine/


also see
http://www.minitechcnc.com/options/M...%20options.htm
http://littlemachineshop.com/info/Mi...UsersGuide.pdf


Let the group know how ypu make out.


Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:08:53 +0100, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
wrote:

"Michael Koblic" writes:

The bottom speed is quite high.

Really? It goes down to 320 RPM. How low would one want a mill to go?

75 rpm


How easy is it to import into Norway? Will they sting you with
additional taxes and duties or just MVA?

Well, importing something as heavy as a milling machine means the cost
of shipping will exceed the cost of the machine. Then, there's the 25%
sales tax, which applies to the cost of the machine *and* shipping.
Basically, it's not worth it.

-tih


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Mar 23, 7:24*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:08:53 +0100, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo

wrote:
"Michael Koblic" writes:

The bottom speed is quite high.

Really? *It goes down to 320 RPM. *How low would one want a mill to go?

75 rpm

The lowest speed on my mill is 180 RPM, which is about right for High
Speed Steel at a 50mm (2") cutting diameter and hasn't dulled a well-
lubed 100mm slitting saw cutting steel, yet. Slower by half would be
better for that.

jsw

wrote:

On Mar 23, 2:56 pm, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:

danmitch writes:

This would make a decent small drillpress, and a rather poor mill, as
you correctly surmise. Still, if the price is right, it would probably
be better than a milling attachment in a small lathe.

That's mostly where I'm at in my thinking, so far. Used equipment is
seldom seen on the Norwegian market, and when it is, it tends to be big
and heavy commercial machines, with asking prices way out of my range.
I have to compare it to a milling attachment for my mini-lathe, and it
does seem to come out of that comparison pretty well.

-tih


Here's Varmint Al's take:
http://www.varmintal.com/alath.htm#Milling_Attachment
The various bits are so low priced, you could make the attachment AND
get the mill/drill if that's what you wanted. I'd still make/buy a
drawbar setup for holding the milling cutters in the lathe, though,
mill shanks will walk out of chucks. Little Machineshop also has both
the drawbar and the "official" mini-lathe milling attachment.

Stan
Agreed that a drill chuks should NOT be used to hold milling cutters.
Most milling cutters have hardened shanks that a chuck will NOT grip
adequately. The cutters will slip and pul out under load. This can make
a real mess of the work, and is potentially quite dangerous to the
operator. It's a BAD idea, even if the chuck is secured with a drawbar.

Collets, in good condition, properly seated, are usually acceptable for
holding milling cutters. This is especially true for small low powered
machines. An "End-Mill Holder" is certainly more secure, but can induce
small (usually not serious) runout problems.

For light precision work, use collets ... for heavy work use end-mill
holders.

Dan Mitchell
============

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 2010-03-24, danmitch wrote:
wrote:

[ ... ]

Here's Varmint Al's take:
http://www.varmintal.com/alath.htm#Milling_Attachment
The various bits are so low priced, you could make the attachment AND
get the mill/drill if that's what you wanted. I'd still make/buy a
drawbar setup for holding the milling cutters in the lathe, though,
mill shanks will walk out of chucks. Little Machineshop also has both
the drawbar and the "official" mini-lathe milling attachment.

Stan
Agreed that a drill chuks should NOT be used to hold milling cutters.
Most milling cutters have hardened shanks that a chuck will NOT grip
adequately. The cutters will slip and pul out under load. This can make
a real mess of the work, and is potentially quite dangerous to the
operator. It's a BAD idea, even if the chuck is secured with a drawbar.

There is an exception to this -- with chucks made by Albrecht
with diamond grit faced jaws which *can* grip a milling cutter shank
without slipping.

However -- these particular ones also don't come with Morse
Taper shanks, nor with Jacobs taper sockets. The come with integral R8
or 30, 40, or perhaps even 50 taper holders. I think that they are for
gripping solid carbide drill bits -- where even the shank is carbide. I
don't think that they advise using it for holding end mills anyway.

Collets, in good condition, properly seated, are usually acceptable for
holding milling cutters. This is especially true for small low powered
machines. An "End-Mill Holder" is certainly more secure, but can induce
small (usually not serious) runout problems.

Generally -- the runout is minimal with a Weldon shank end mill
in a quality end mill holder. The fit is so tight that you can create a
"pop" as it is drawn out if there is no through connection to the
drawbar for airflow.

And some of them are designed to be heated, and the shank put in
there at which point they shrink fit -- very strong grip, and
essentially no addition of runout.

Also -- for those in the UK and Australia -- look into Clarkson
collets. they are designed so the end mill *can't* be drawn out. The
end mill has a cylindrical shank with a threaded end and the holder has
a keyed nut which presses the center hole in the back of the end mill
against a center pip in the body of the holder. There is a collet
which tightens on the shank to maximize concentricity.

I've got some Clarkson holders -- but not any reasonable number
of matching end mills.

For light precision work, use collets ... for heavy work use end-mill
holders.

Yes -- because R8 collets (at least -- perhaps others) will let
the helical flute mills be drawn down under heavy cuts, resulting in a
cut which gets deeper as you go along -- and sometimes even continues
through the workpiece and into the mill's table. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I wrote:

I occasionally wish I had a small mill, but can't really afford to go
out and buy one.

That just changed!

My thanks to all of you who offered helpful advice: your warnings caused
me to wait, think more carefully, and search more diligently for
alternatives. In the end, I came across a person who imports Taig
machines in his spare time, and, because he has no employees, and pays
no rent, is able to offer them for sale at very reasonable prices.

I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

On Mar 25, 6:52*am, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:
...
I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.
-tih

With metric dials and lead screws, I hope.

jsw

"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" wrote in message
...

snip

I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.

Are you sure? I did not know that Taig came out with a X2 version. They do
have a micro-mill, but that is considerably smaller than an X2:

http://www.taigtools.com/mmill.html

Note the collet sizes, lowest speeds atc.
Don't get me wrong, I loved my Taig lathe but it does not begin to match my
X2.
You might want to make doubly sure what it is you are buying.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Mar 25, 8:07*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" wrote in ...
....
I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.
....
You might want to make doubly sure what it is you are buying.
Michael Koblic,

Congratulations, you've progressed from asking to answering.

jsw

"Michael Koblic" writes:

I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.

Are you sure? I did not know that Taig came out with a X2
version. They do have a micro-mill, but that is considerably smaller
than an X2:

Oops! No, of course, that's wrong. I've been looking at too many
products, and I'm mixing up names. I meant Sieg Super X2, which is
their upgraded X2, with the 500W brushless motor.

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

Jim Wilkins writes:

With metric dials and lead screws, I hope.

Thanks - I should check that. It'd be somewhat confusing to have this
be different between my lathe and mill, I think.

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

On Mar 26, 12:09*am, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:
Jim Wilkins writes:
With metric dials and lead screws, I hope.

Thanks - I should check that. *It'd be somewhat confusing to have this
be different between my lathe and mill, I think. *
-tih

I can work comfortably in either system as long as the graduations on
the machine are the same as the dimensions on the drawing. There are
too many things that demand close attention when machining to rely on
mental math.

Do you see any products made to inch dimensions in Norge?

jsw

Jim Wilkins writes:

I can work comfortably in either system as long as the graduations on
the machine are the same as the dimensions on the drawing. There are
too many things that demand close attention when machining to rely on
mental math.

Do you see any products made to inch dimensions in Norge?

None at all. Not for a long time, now. We still speak of lumber in
inch dimensions, even though it's no longer actually cut like that (a
two-by-four is thinner here than in the US, but we still call it a
two-by-four in everyday parlance) -- but that's the only use I can think
of. Oh, one mo yardsticks are called "inch sticks" here, even though
they're now marked in metric units.

The mini-lathe I bought has a nice solution on the handwheel scales on
the cross- and topslide: since it's built for the European market, it
has metric lead screws throughout, and the slides advance 1 mm per
revolution of the handwheels. However, the scales are marked with 40
divisions. So, four units is a tenth of a millimeter, and each mark is
"a quarter of a tenth", or 0.025. Not too difficult, but why not 50
divisions? Because 1/40 mm is very close to 1/1000", and that's the
unit you see all over the literature, on the net, and so on. Smart!

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

On Mar 26, 7:31*am, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:
Jim Wilkins writes:
...
Do you see any products made to inch dimensions in Norge?

None at all. *Not for a long time, now. *We still speak of lumber in
inch dimensions, even though it's no longer actually cut like that (a
two-by-four is thinner here than in the US, but we still call it a
two-by-four in everyday parlance) -- but that's the only use I can think
of. *Oh, one mo yardsticks are called "inch sticks" here, even though
they're now marked in metric units. *

A "two-by-four" here is within carpenter's tolerance of 40 x 90mm, and
"inch" planks are 19 - 20mm thick.

jsw

Jim Wilkins writes:

A "two-by-four" here is within carpenter's tolerance of 40 x 90mm, and
"inch" planks are 19 - 20mm thick.

OK, that's what we do, too. Whatever happened to the good old inch?

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

On Mar 26, 4:51*pm, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:
Jim Wilkins writes:
A "two-by-four" here is within carpenter's tolerance of 40 x 90mm, and
"inch" planks are 19 - 20mm thick.

OK, that's what we do, too. *Whatever happened to the good old inch? *

When I was a kid in the 1950's I 'helped' my father renovate old
houses. Some were built with rough-sawn framing a full 2" by 4", more
recent ones had planed framing timbers for easier handling that
averaged 1-1/2" to 1/5/8" by 3-1/2" to 3-3/4". At that time we could
have the millyard plane the rough wood to custom thickness to match
the house we were working on.

I saw my oak to a target thickness of 5/4".
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/H...53242652915618

jsw

Jim Wilkins writes:

I saw my oak to a target thickness of 5/4".
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/H...53242652915618

Looks cool! What is that thing? - and why?

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

On Mar 26, 5:39*pm, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:
Jim Wilkins writes:
I saw my oak to a target thickness of 5/4".
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/H...53242652915618

Looks cool! *What is that thing? - and why?

It is a bandsaw mill made from a wrecked motorcycle and the engine
from my log splitter. I have a large library and use the planks for
bookshelves, and to rebuild my doors and windows. The trees on my
property are much too nice to waste as firewood when they die or blow
down, look behind the saw:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/H...53006429714322

jsw

On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:09:05 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
scrawled the following:

On Mar 26, 5:39*pm, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:
Jim Wilkins writes:
I saw my oak to a target thickness of 5/4".
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/H...53242652915618

Looks cool! *What is that thing? - and why?

It is a bandsaw mill made from a wrecked motorcycle and the engine
from my log splitter. I have a large library and use the planks for
bookshelves, and to rebuild my doors and windows. The trees on my
property are much too nice to waste as firewood when they die or blow
down, look behind the saw:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/H...53006429714322

Jim, the shadow of the tin roof on the side of the log is downright
eerie. I was trying to figure out why the bark looked wavy like that.
Har!

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-

On Mar 27, 1:39*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:09:05 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
...

Jim, the shadow of the tin roof on the side of the log is downright
eerie. *I was trying to figure out why the bark looked wavy like that.
Har!

This shows that roof from the opposite direction after I put a shed
over the log pile:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/F...88504883032706
The shadow isn't straight because these sheds are framed with tree
trunks that will be planks or firewood themselves some day. Building
them was good practice in case I ever take another maintenance job at
a Renaissance Festival.

jsw

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 05:00:49 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
scrawled the following:

On Mar 27, 1:39*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:09:05 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
...

Jim, the shadow of the tin roof on the side of the log is downright
eerie. *I was trying to figure out why the bark looked wavy like that.
Har!

This shows that roof from the opposite direction after I put a shed
over the log pile:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/F...88504883032706

Hey, looks like a logging trailer made from an old boat trailer.


The shadow isn't straight because these sheds are framed with tree
trunks that will be planks or firewood themselves some day. Building

It was the corrugated shadow that I was talking about. You can't see
the crossection of that in the pic you just showed me.


them was good practice in case I ever take another maintenance job at
a Renaissance Festival.

Cool.

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-

On Mar 27, 10:15*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
O...

Hey, looks like a logging trailer made from an old boat trailer.

It was a single-place tilting snowmobile trailer that had flipped
over, so I got it for IIRC $20, then had a weldor cut and splice the
twisted tongue for another $10. It has been my longest-term test of
LPS-3, left outdoors since the 1970's without serious rust. The tongue
jack still unlocks and swivels down easily.

I should have made the tool box larger.

It was the corrugated shadow that I was talking about. You can't see
the crossection of that in the pic you just showed me.

Trust me, the roof is far from straight.

jsw

I wrote:

I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.

It arrived today. It's beautiful! Now I'm wishing my mini-lathe
had such a gorgeous motor and controller. Oh, well...

It came with this rather good-looking vise:

http://www.sieg-scandinavia.com/shop...80mm-359p.html

I'm wondering, seeing the size of the thing, whether I might want a
smaller, simpler vise to go with it? Something like a cute little Kurt
vise, or even a screwless vise from, say, Little Machine Shop:

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=3763

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak