"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" wrote in message
...
I wrote:

I'll be buying a Taig Super X2 mini-mill from him next week.

It arrived today. It's beautiful! Now I'm wishing my mini-lathe
had such a gorgeous motor and controller. Oh, well...

It came with this rather good-looking vise:

http://www.sieg-scandinavia.com/shop...80mm-359p.html

I'm wondering, seeing the size of the thing, whether I might want a
smaller, simpler vise to go with it? Something like a cute little Kurt
vise, or even a screwless vise from, say, Little Machine Shop:

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=3763


Congratulations!

Heed Jim Wilkins' previous posts:

1) Take the Sieg vise off the swivel base - you will gain rigidity, Z-axis
space and some space on the table. On mine the holes were smaller than the
mounting slots on the swivel base. It took me a while to overcome this but
then I am slow...
2) The LMS vise is the same size - 80 mm. What would you gain by getting it
instead? Furthermore, Jim explained why this is a bad choice. I had a look
at the smaller version in my local shop and I agree with him. It could be a
right PITA to operate.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Mar 31, 2:02*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
...
Much will depend on the size and type of work that you are doing.
What are most of your projects? *

Unka George *(George McDuffee)

You can narrow down the answer to that excellent but open-ended
question by deciding if the projects will be models or full-sized
working equipment, which in my case means repair parts for tools,
garden-type machinery and vehicles. You can choose the scale of a
model but have to make repair parts the same size as the originals.

I bought an RF-31 mill-drill once because it was large enough to drill
any spot on a 5-1/4" relay rack panel.

jsw

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:07:27 +0200, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
wrote:
snip
I'm wondering, seeing the size of the thing, whether I might want a
smaller, simpler vise to go with it? Something like a cute little Kurt
vise, or even a screwless vise
snip
----------
Much will depend on the size and type of work that you are doing.

What are most of your projects?


Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 2:02 pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
...
Much will depend on the size and type of work that you are doing.
What are most of your projects?

Unka George (George McDuffee)

You can narrow down the answer to that excellent but open-ended
question by deciding if the projects will be models or full-sized
working equipment, which in my case means repair parts for tools,
garden-type machinery and vehicles. You can choose the scale of a
model but have to make repair parts the same size as the originals.

I bought an RF-31 mill-drill once because it was large enough to drill
any spot on a 5-1/4" relay rack panel.


That question needs to be asked *before* you get the X2. Once you bought it
it is pretty much answered...

speaking of mills, a friend is wishing to dispose of an Atlas horizontal
mill for $800, I think it has some tooling - on the left coast - if you are
interested, drop me a note and I'll forward the email - don't reply to this
message though - go to www.wbnoble.com to get a working email address

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:07:27 +0200, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
wrote:
snip
I'm wondering, seeing the size of the thing, whether I might want a
smaller, simpler vise to go with it? Something like a cute little Kurt
vise, or even a screwless vise
snip
----------
Much will depend on the size and type of work that you are doing.

What are most of your projects?


Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

"Michael Koblic" writes:

Heed Jim Wilkins' previous posts:

1) Take the Sieg vise off the swivel base - you will gain rigidity,
Z-axis space and some space on the table. On mine the holes were
smaller than the mounting slots on the swivel base. It took me a while
to overcome this but then I am slow...

Sounds good, but I'd be (possibly needlessly) worried because of the
size of the thing. I'd have to bolt it to the nearest T slot, which
would have almost half the bottom of the vise hanging in the air in
front of the table, and the work piece held over the rear edge of the
table. I guess the table and the vise are both stiff enough to let me
do this, but the zig-zag geometry of the fixtures feels wrong. At the
same time, the work piece is held quite high, adding moment arm to the
side forces trying to twist and turn the table.

I guess what I was thinking was that a smaller vise might sort of fit
the table better, and be bolted to it in a more symmetrical manner,
while holding the work piece over the table itself, and not more than an
inch, say, above it. Surely, the target, when mounting a work piece,
must be to get it as close to the table surface, and as centered on the
table, as possible?

2) The LMS vise is the same size - 80 mm. What would you gain by
getting it instead? Furthermore, Jim explained why this is a bad
choice. I had a look at the smaller version in my local shop and I
agree with him. It could be a right PITA to operate.

Ah, yes. That's the one he mentioned, of course. Anyway, I may be
worrying for no good reason -- but I still suspect that I might be
better off returning the ($150) Sieg vise, and looking for something
like the quick vise on http://lmscnc.com/1145 instead.

Anyway, if I'm just being silly here, and should pipe down and make some
swarf instead, please tell me so!

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

On Apr 1, 8:28*am, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:
"Michael Koblic" writes:
[delete swivel base]
Sounds good, but I'd be (possibly needlessly) worried because of the
size of the thing. I'd have to bolt it to the nearest T slot, which
would have almost half the bottom of the vise hanging in the air in
front of the table, and the work piece held over the rear edge of the
table. I guess the table and the vise are both stiff enough to let me
do this, but the zig-zag geometry of the fixtures feels wrong. At the
same time, the work piece is held quite high, adding moment arm to the
side forces trying to twist and turn the table.

I guess what I was thinking was that a smaller vise might sort of fit
the table better, and be bolted to it in a more symmetrical manner,
while holding the work piece over the table itself, and not more than an
inch, say, above it. Surely, the target, when mounting a work piece,
must be to get it as close to the table surface, and as centered on the
table, as possible?

2) The LMS vise is the same size - 80 mm. What would you gain by
getting it instead? Furthermore, Jim explained why this is a bad
choice. I had a look at the smaller version in my local shop and I
agree with him. It could be a right PITA to operate.

Ah, yes. That's the one he mentioned, of course. Anyway, I may be
worrying for no good reason -- but I still suspect that I might be
better off returning the ($150) Sieg vise, and looking for something
like the quick vise on http://lmscnc.com/1145 instead.

Anyway, if I'm just being silly here, and should pipe down and make some
swarf instead, please tell me so!

-tih


After you remove the vise from the swivel base you can attach it
anywhere on the table with a clamp kit:
http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/upl...ping%20kit.jpg
They are excellent for work too large or awkward for the vise, like
boring an engine cylinder or drilling switch holes in a sheet aluminum
chassis.

Presumably the Y axis travel is about equal to the table Y width and
you can't move the table completely out from under the spindle, no?
Then the work-holding part of the vise should be over the table as
well. The rest of the vise can overhang.

On my mill the table is 6" wide front to rear, the vise is 16" long. I
had to cut off the fixed jaw end bolt-down tabs that banged into the
mill's column, and the screw end of the vise extends toward me so far
it interferes with the Y axis crank sometimes. With the jaws fully
open (110mm) the work is still over the table.

I like to position the vise such that when the table is fully forward
the largest end mill I commonly use is slightly behind the rear fixed
jaw, so it doesn't interfere with loading the vise. This means I can
run the table forward (Y) until the end mill is behind the work to
change Z without losing X position. However you do it you need to be
able to cut all the way back to the fixed jaw.

The two mills I've set up this way had the head mounted on a sliding
ram so I put the vise on first and then slid the head into position. I
was able to line up the vise mounting lugs with tee slots. I suppose
you could attach a vise that doesn't line up to a steel baseplate and
then drill the plate over the tee slots.

Once you are sure you will keep the vise you can mill a shallow slot
under the base for a locating bar that fits a tee slot. Then you don't
have to square up the vise whenever you remove and reinstall it.

jsw

Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:
"Michael Koblic" writes:

Heed Jim Wilkins' previous posts:

1) Take the Sieg vise off the swivel base - you will gain rigidity,
Z-axis space and some space on the table. On mine the holes were
smaller than the mounting slots on the swivel base. It took me a while
to overcome this but then I am slow...

Sounds good, but I'd be (possibly needlessly) worried because of the
size of the thing. I'd have to bolt it to the nearest T slot, which
would have almost half the bottom of the vise hanging in the air in
front of the table, and the work piece held over the rear edge of the
table. I guess the table and the vise are both stiff enough to let me
do this, but the zig-zag geometry of the fixtures feels wrong. At the
same time, the work piece is held quite high, adding moment arm to the
side forces trying to twist and turn the table.

I guess what I was thinking was that a smaller vise might sort of fit
the table better, and be bolted to it in a more symmetrical manner,
while holding the work piece over the table itself, and not more than an
inch, say, above it. Surely, the target, when mounting a work piece,
must be to get it as close to the table surface, and as centered on the
table, as possible?

2) The LMS vise is the same size - 80 mm. What would you gain by
getting it instead? Furthermore, Jim explained why this is a bad
choice. I had a look at the smaller version in my local shop and I
agree with him. It could be a right PITA to operate.

I bought the LMS 3" swivel vise last fall for my X2.
Removed the base to storage, mounted vise to the X2
Perfect fit, very pleased with it.

"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" wrote in message
...
"Michael Koblic" writes:

Heed Jim Wilkins' previous posts:

1) Take the Sieg vise off the swivel base - you will gain rigidity,
Z-axis space and some space on the table. On mine the holes were
smaller than the mounting slots on the swivel base. It took me a while
to overcome this but then I am slow...

Sounds good, but I'd be (possibly needlessly) worried because of the
size of the thing. I'd have to bolt it to the nearest T slot, which
would have almost half the bottom of the vise hanging in the air in
front of the table, and the work piece held over the rear edge of the
table. I guess the table and the vise are both stiff enough to let me
do this, but the zig-zag geometry of the fixtures feels wrong. At the
same time, the work piece is held quite high, adding moment arm to the
side forces trying to twist and turn the table.

That fixed jaw does look a bit far forward, granted. I cannot comment if
that matters or not. Can you measure the distance from the mounting holes to
the end of the fixed jaw along the Y-axis?

BTW for that money you can get *two* vises of different configurations :-)

I guess what I was thinking was that a smaller vise might sort of fit
the table better, and be bolted to it in a more symmetrical manner,
while holding the work piece over the table itself, and not more than an
inch, say, above it. Surely, the target, when mounting a work piece,
must be to get it as close to the table surface, and as centered on the
table, as possible?

2) The LMS vise is the same size - 80 mm. What would you gain by
getting it instead? Furthermore, Jim explained why this is a bad
choice. I had a look at the smaller version in my local shop and I
agree with him. It could be a right PITA to operate.

Ah, yes. That's the one he mentioned, of course. Anyway, I may be
worrying for no good reason -- but I still suspect that I might be
better off returning the ($150) Sieg vise, and looking for something
like the quick vise on http://lmscnc.com/1145 instead.

That's a pretty good size, too! If your table is anything like mine it will
overhang quite a bit. I have a 2" vise and so far have not needed anything
bigger. OTOH a big vise will do the job of a smaller one but not vice versa

Anyway, if I'm just being silly here, and should pipe down and make some
swarf instead, please tell me so!

I don't know about the others but for me this sort of thread is the raison
d'etre of this group.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news:2139aaa9-c076-43b6-912e-

Once you are sure you will keep the vise you can mill a shallow slot
under the base for a locating bar that fits a tee slot. Then you don't
have to square up the vise whenever you remove and reinstall it.


Into the base of the vise itself? Don't you have to remove the vise and turn
it over for that. I cannot visualize it...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Apr 1, 9:46*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
....
Once you are sure you will keep the vise you can mill a shallow slot
under the base for a locating bar that fits a tee slot. Then you don't
have to square up the vise whenever you remove and reinstall it.

Into the base of the vise itself? Don't you have to remove the vise and turn
it over for that. I cannot visualize it...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Yes. Make a rectangular bar thats a sliding fit in the tee slot, clamp
it part way into the slot with a block underneath and mill a narrow
step in both sides. The sides of the steps will then be parallel to
the X axis whether or not the tee slots are. They weren't on the
RF-31.

Clamp the vise upside down on the steps. Now the jaws are parallel to
the X axis. Mill a *shallow* slot in the base to accept the stepped
side of the bar. I try for a finger-tight press fit. Drill and tap for
two screws to hold the bar on when you pull the vise off the table.

Only the width of the slot and the bar need match, the slot doesn't
have to take the full depth of the step in the bar. After milling the
steps I smoothed them and beveled the top edges with a file before
cutting the slot in the vise base.

I haven't tried it but I think you could make the bar extend beyond
the sides of the vise and put nut plates under it to clamp the vise
down to the table if the built-in mounting tabs don't line up with tee
slots.

I hope that's clear. It's hard to take a fresh look at it after
editing it over and over for an hour.

jsw

Jim Wilkins writes:

After you remove the vise from the swivel base you can attach it
anywhere on the table with a clamp kit:

Yup - I have one of those kits; the standard 42 piece 12mm (7/16")
T-slot, M10 threaded kit. I had to find a couple of M10 screws and cut
the heads off them to be able to clamp the vise, though: the clamp kit
can't clamp anything that thin, because even the shortest of the
supplied studs are too long. (They have this non-threaded bit in the
middle that limits how close to the table you can get the nut.)

In fact, I'm a tiny bit miffed at Sieg for not including any mounting
hardware for the vise with either the mill or the vise. The mill came
with two T-nuts. Would it bankrupt them to include the right size studs
and nuts, too, so it was ready to accept a vise? I'd happily forgo yet
another set of cheap and ugly end wrenches to offset the cost.

On my mill the table is 6" wide front to rear, the vise is 16" long.
[setup description elided]

Wow! OK, I'm not going to worry about the vise overhanging the table.
I'll just make sure I've got it clamped so that it's firmly held to the
center of the table, with the work piece held so that it, too, is over
the table itself.

Thanks for your help!

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

Jim Wilkins writes:

I hope that's clear. It's hard to take a fresh look at it after
editing it over and over for an hour.

It is. This would save a lot of fiddling with a dial indicator to
square off the vise each time it is mounted. A fun project, too!

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

"Michael Koblic" writes:

That fixed jaw does look a bit far forward, granted. I cannot comment
if that matters or not. Can you measure the distance from the mounting
holes to the end of the fixed jaw along the Y-axis?

About 6cm (2 1/3"). Not an awful lot, but it means I have to bolt it to
the frontmost T-slot to keep the work piece over the table. However, if
I'm going to do as Jim suggests, and make it self-aligning, I think I'll
drill a couple of new mounting holes, as well, so the vise can be bolted
to the central T-slot, while the alignment bar sits in one of the other
ones, with the face of the fixed jaw suitably placed near the rear edge
of the table.

BTW for that money you can get *two* vises of different configurations :-)

Not over here, you can't.

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

On Apr 2, 8:43*am, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo wrote:
...
On my mill the table is 6" wide front to rear, the vise is 16" long.
[setup description elided]

Three periods is the "proper" way to indicate omitted text, if you
ca
http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/gramm...s/ellipsis.htm
Officially I should put spaces between them, and would if someone was
paying me for this.

jsw

Michael Koblic wrote:

"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" wrote in message
...
"Michael Koblic" writes:

Heed Jim Wilkins' previous posts:

1) Take the Sieg vise off the swivel base - you will gain rigidity,
Z-axis space and some space on the table. On mine the holes were
smaller than the mounting slots on the swivel base. It took me a while
to overcome this but then I am slow...

Sounds good, but I'd be (possibly needlessly) worried because of the
size of the thing. I'd have to bolt it to the nearest T slot, which
would have almost half the bottom of the vise hanging in the air in
front of the table, and the work piece held over the rear edge of the
table. I guess the table and the vise are both stiff enough to let me
do this, but the zig-zag geometry of the fixtures feels wrong. At the
same time, the work piece is held quite high, adding moment arm to the
side forces trying to twist and turn the table.

That fixed jaw does look a bit far forward, granted. I cannot comment if
that matters or not. Can you measure the distance from the mounting
holes to the end of the fixed jaw along the Y-axis?

BTW for that money you can get *two* vises of different configurations :-)

I guess what I was thinking was that a smaller vise might sort of fit
the table better, and be bolted to it in a more symmetrical manner,
while holding the work piece over the table itself, and not more than an
inch, say, above it. Surely, the target, when mounting a work piece,
must be to get it as close to the table surface, and as centered on the
table, as possible?

2) The LMS vise is the same size - 80 mm. What would you gain by
getting it instead? Furthermore, Jim explained why this is a bad
choice. I had a look at the smaller version in my local shop and I
agree with him. It could be a right PITA to operate.

Ah, yes. That's the one he mentioned, of course. Anyway, I may be
worrying for no good reason -- but I still suspect that I might be
better off returning the ($150) Sieg vise, and looking for something
like the quick vise on http://lmscnc.com/1145 instead.

That's a pretty good size, too! If your table is anything like mine it
will overhang quite a bit. I have a 2" vise and so far have not needed
anything bigger. OTOH a big vise will do the job of a smaller one but
not vice versa

Anyway, if I'm just being silly here, and should pipe down and make some
swarf instead, please tell me so!

I don't know about the others but for me this sort of thread is the
raison d'etre of this group.


Ditto. thanks for starting this one up.

While I am very pleased with the 3" LMS vise, I am looking at buying a
smaller screwless vise for small work

On Apr 2, 9:57*am, RBnDFW wrote:
...

While I am very pleased with the 3" LMS vise, I am looking at buying a
smaller screwless vise for small work

If you find a good sale price two identical ones are useful to hold
long narrow work, like 8mm square brass bars. You could for instance
grab both ends of a thin bar and block the two vises high enough to
clear the bed of your main milling vise, then step the work through
the main vise as you mill the top edge. Narrow strips are otherwise
difficult to cut down unless you have even narrower parallels to
support them.

I have only used a screwless vise on the surface grinder where the
fussiness of moving the inner bar doesn't matter.

jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Apr 1, 9:46 pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
....
Once you are sure you will keep the vise you can mill a shallow slot
under the base for a locating bar that fits a tee slot. Then you don't
have to square up the vise whenever you remove and reinstall it.

Into the base of the vise itself? Don't you have to remove the vise and
turn
it over for that. I cannot visualize it...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Yes. Make a rectangular bar thats a sliding fit in the tee slot, clamp
it part way into the slot with a block underneath and mill a narrow
step in both sides. The sides of the steps will then be parallel to
the X axis whether or not the tee slots are. They weren't on the
RF-31.

Clamp the vise upside down on the steps. Now the jaws are parallel to
the X axis. Mill a *shallow* slot in the base to accept the stepped
side of the bar. I try for a finger-tight press fit. Drill and tap for
two screws to hold the bar on when you pull the vise off the table.

Only the width of the slot and the bar need match, the slot doesn't
have to take the full depth of the step in the bar. After milling the
steps I smoothed them and beveled the top edges with a file before
cutting the slot in the vise base.

I haven't tried it but I think you could make the bar extend beyond
the sides of the vise and put nut plates under it to clamp the vise
down to the table if the built-in mounting tabs don't line up with tee
slots.

I hope that's clear. It's hard to take a fresh look at it after
editing it over and over for an hour.


Yes. That is very clever! And useful. I have my vise mounted slightly to the
side so I can mount my 4" 3-jaw chuck on the other half of the table. As it
is they still fight for space.

I gotta look at this seriously.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" wrote in message
...
Jim Wilkins writes:

After you remove the vise from the swivel base you can attach it
anywhere on the table with a clamp kit:

Yup - I have one of those kits; the standard 42 piece 12mm (7/16")
T-slot, M10 threaded kit. I had to find a couple of M10 screws and cut
the heads off them to be able to clamp the vise, though: the clamp kit
can't clamp anything that thin, because even the shortest of the
supplied studs are too long. (They have this non-threaded bit in the
middle that limits how close to the table you can get the nut.)

Can't you just use short bolts? I do.
The problem came when I took the vise of the swivel base: The holes were
only 5/16" and I could not use my 3/8" T-nuts. In the end I cut off some
3/8" bolts and turned a portion down to 5/16" and then cut the appropriate
size threads. Now the bottom goes into the T-nuts and the top through the
holes in the base and I do not take up additional space through having to
use the clamps.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Apr 2, 8:55*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
...
A smaller vise can be handy, especially if you can clamp the
smaller vise in the larger vise as this will allow you to
cut/drill compound angle holes at some cost saving over a
compound angle vise. ...
Unka George *(George McDuffee)

In practice I've only needed to mill a few common angles and a set
like this was good enough:
http://www.cvtech.com.au/tooling/tmaking/sb2.JPG

jsw

On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 08:57:07 -0500, RBnDFW
wrote:
snip
While I am very pleased with the 3" LMS vise, I am looking at buying a
smaller screwless vise for small work
snip
A smaller vise can be handy, especially if you can clamp the
smaller vise in the larger vise as this will allow you to
cut/drill compound angle holes at some cost saving over a
compound angle vise. Note that you can do the same thing with a
slotted right angle block with some loss in tool/table clearance
but some additional cost savings.

You will of course need some way to set/check the angles. While
somewhat expensive I find one of the small 3inch/75mm magnetic
sine bars to be very useful. Also get a space block set or use
feeler gages to set.

It all depends on the size/kind of the parts you will be making.
[inch] examples of
magnetic sine bar
http://www.hhip.com/products/product...ctID=3800-5410

space block set [same as jo blocks for home shop use at 10% of
the price]
http://www.hhip.com/products/product...ctID=3101-0003
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32

right angle plate
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...MITEM=418-4325


Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

"Michael Koblic" writes:

Yup - I have one of those kits; the standard 42 piece 12mm (7/16")
T-slot, M10 threaded kit. I had to find a couple of M10 screws and cut
the heads off them to be able to clamp the vise, though: the clamp kit
can't clamp anything that thin, because even the shortest of the
supplied studs are too long. (They have this non-threaded bit in the
middle that limits how close to the table you can get the nut.)

Can't you just use short bolts? I do.

Of course -- but I didn't have any that were short enough, and since I
had to cut them down anyway, I chose to make suitable studs that could
be used with the clamping kit, too. (I couldn't go out and buy short
bolts, either, because it's Easter, and Norway is officially Lutheran
Protestant Christian. Easter being a big deal for the Christians, the
whole country comes to a complete halt for five days. Suits me fine: I
have five days off to tidy up my home workshop and get this mill set up
and working.)

The problem came when I took the vise of the swivel base: The holes
were only 5/16" and I could not use my 3/8" T-nuts. In the end I cut
off some 3/8" bolts and turned a portion down to 5/16" and then cut
the appropriate size threads. Now the bottom goes into the T-nuts and
the top through the holes in the base and I do not take up additional
space through having to use the clamps.

That's clever! You can still use the swivel base if you need to, since
you haven't modified the vise in any way. How did you hold the bolts
when turning them down and threading them, without damaging the existing
thread?

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" wrote in message
...

The problem came when I took the vise of the swivel base: The holes
were only 5/16" and I could not use my 3/8" T-nuts. In the end I cut
off some 3/8" bolts and turned a portion down to 5/16" and then cut
the appropriate size threads. Now the bottom goes into the T-nuts and
the top through the holes in the base and I do not take up additional
space through having to use the clamps.

That's clever! You can still use the swivel base if you need to, since
you haven't modified the vise in any way. How did you hold the bolts
when turning them down and threading them, without damaging the existing
thread?

I did it in my Taig which has a 3-jaw with aluminium jaws. I tried with two
hex nuts etc. but in the end I just gripped them and ripped them. The
advantage - no damage to the threads. The PITA - the alu jaws do not grip
well enough to allow threading. On anything.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On 2010-04-04, Michael Koblic wrote:

"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" wrote in message
...

The problem came when I took the vise of the swivel base: The holes
were only 5/16" and I could not use my 3/8" T-nuts. In the end I cut
off some 3/8" bolts and turned a portion down to 5/16" and then cut
the appropriate size threads. Now the bottom goes into the T-nuts and
the top through the holes in the base and I do not take up additional
space through having to use the clamps.

That's clever! You can still use the swivel base if you need to, since
you haven't modified the vise in any way. How did you hold the bolts
when turning them down and threading them, without damaging the existing
thread?

I did it in my Taig which has a 3-jaw with aluminium jaws. I tried with two
hex nuts etc. but in the end I just gripped them and ripped them. The
advantage - no damage to the threads. The PITA - the alu jaws do not grip
well enough to allow threading. On anything.

Hmm ... turn a ring for the OD of the aluminum jaws (or for
steps which you have turned on them to make them look like standard
chuck jaws) and expand the jaws into it to leave a grip diameter just a
little larger than as small as you can. Then drill the jaws (expanded
into the ring) to the tap drill size and start a tap into this on the
lathe with the rear end held in line by the tailstock center. Once the
tap is started, remove the chuck from the lathe and grip it in a vise
and finish tapping the jaws as deep as is reasonable for holding your
threaded stock. Then you can loosen the chuck (after removing the ring)
and easily thread the screw stock into it and clamp down on the thread
having much more grip surface.

Or -- if you don't have soft jaws, take some aluminum of say 1"
OD (assuming your thread size is 1/2" or less), center drill it and
drill to tap size on the lathe while holding it in the 3-jaw chuck and
tap as before. Then remove from the chuck, and put a slitting saw in
your mill and cut a radial slit from the OD to the center hole. Now,
put it back in the lathe chuck, orient the slit directly opposite one of
the jaws, screw in your screw while it is loose, then tighten the chuck
to close the slit and grip the thread.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Apr 3, 8:47*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" wrote in ...
...How did you hold the bolts
when turning them down and threading them, without damaging the existing
thread?

I did it in my Taig which has a 3-jaw with aluminium jaws. I tried with two
hex nuts etc. but in the end I just gripped them and ripped them. The
advantage - no damage to the threads. The PITA - the alu jaws do not grip
well enough to allow threading. On anything.
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I've gotten slightly better results with a threaded rod coupler and a
hex nut. It still doesn't run true but there's more to grab.

If the job is worth it I make a cup out of 1" drill rod and thread a
hole in the bottom, starting the thread on the lathe and finishing it
with a tap, which cuts much better when it has only a little to
remove. This is faster than lathe threading to final size.

This one here is tapped 1/2-13. The bottom of the cup is barely two
threads thick or about 4mm and that has proven strong enough to turn
down a pile of stainless steel bolts for Segway battery mounting
studs. The head tightened within the cup or a nut on the outside keeps
the bolt from wobbling.

I made them to use in 5C collets, and short enough to tighten the bolt
head with a wrench. If you make them for a chuck a pipe cap turned
cylindrical on the OD might be better to leave room for a socket
wrench inside. I'd thread the cap onto a nipple to chuck it and cut
both the OD and the thread for best concentricity. Face off around the
hole afterwards so the bolt doesn't tilt when tightened.

jsw

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2010-04-04, Michael Koblic wrote:

"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" wrote in message
...

The problem came when I took the vise of the swivel base: The holes
were only 5/16" and I could not use my 3/8" T-nuts. In the end I cut
off some 3/8" bolts and turned a portion down to 5/16" and then cut
the appropriate size threads. Now the bottom goes into the T-nuts and
the top through the holes in the base and I do not take up additional
space through having to use the clamps.

That's clever! You can still use the swivel base if you need to, since
you haven't modified the vise in any way. How did you hold the bolts
when turning them down and threading them, without damaging the existing
thread?

I did it in my Taig which has a 3-jaw with aluminium jaws. I tried with
two
hex nuts etc. but in the end I just gripped them and ripped them. The
advantage - no damage to the threads. The PITA - the alu jaws do not grip
well enough to allow threading. On anything.

Hmm ... turn a ring for the OD of the aluminum jaws (or for
steps which you have turned on them to make them look like standard
chuck jaws) and expand the jaws into it to leave a grip diameter just a
little larger than as small as you can. Then drill the jaws (expanded
into the ring) to the tap drill size and start a tap into this on the
lathe with the rear end held in line by the tailstock center. Once the
tap is started, remove the chuck from the lathe and grip it in a vise
and finish tapping the jaws as deep as is reasonable for holding your
threaded stock. Then you can loosen the chuck (after removing the ring)
and easily thread the screw stock into it and clamp down on the thread
having much more grip surface.

Yikes! A bit of an overkill for just two bolts.

Or -- if you don't have soft jaws, take some aluminum of say 1"
OD (assuming your thread size is 1/2" or less), center drill it and
drill to tap size on the lathe while holding it in the 3-jaw chuck and
tap as before. Then remove from the chuck, and put a slitting saw in
your mill and cut a radial slit from the OD to the center hole. Now,
put it back in the lathe chuck, orient the slit directly opposite one of
the jaws, screw in your screw while it is loose, then tighten the chuck
to close the slit and grip the thread.

I can see that one. Presumably steel jaws will grip into the aluminum
outside and prevent rotation. I found that *anything* held in the aluminum
jaws was not held strongly enough for cutting outside threads. Perhaps it is
a function of the chuck tightening mechanism, too (two tommy bars rather
than a key). With smaller stuff (my gnomons) I got around it by using the
1/8" collet. But forgret anything over 1/4".

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Apr 4, 7:45*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message

...





On 2010-04-04, Michael Koblic wrote:

"Tom Ivar Helbekkmo" wrote in message
...

The problem came when I took the vise of the swivel base: The holes
were only 5/16" and I could not use my 3/8" T-nuts. In the end I cut
off some 3/8" bolts and turned a portion down to 5/16" and then cut
the appropriate size threads. Now the bottom goes into the T-nuts and
the top through the holes in the base and I do not take up additional
space through having to use the clamps.

That's clever! *You can still use the swivel base if you need to, since
you haven't modified the vise in any way. *How did you hold the bolts
when turning them down and threading them, without damaging the existing
thread?

I did it in my Taig which has a 3-jaw with aluminium jaws. I tried with
two
hex nuts etc. but in the end I just gripped them and ripped them. The
advantage - no damage to the threads. The PITA - the alu jaws do not grip
well enough to allow threading. On anything.

Hmm ... turn a ring for the OD of the aluminum jaws (or for
steps which you have turned on them to make them look like standard
chuck jaws) and expand the jaws into it to leave a grip diameter just a
little larger than as small as you can. *Then drill the jaws (expanded
into the ring) to the tap drill size and start a tap into this on the
lathe with the rear end held in line by the tailstock center. *Once the
tap is started, remove the chuck from the lathe and grip it in a vise
and finish tapping the jaws as deep as is reasonable for holding your
threaded stock. *Then you can loosen the chuck (after removing the ring)
and easily thread the screw stock into it and clamp down on the thread
having much more grip surface.

Yikes! A bit of an overkill for just two bolts.

Or -- if you don't have soft jaws, take some aluminum of say 1"
OD (assuming your thread size is 1/2" or less), center drill it and
drill to tap size on the lathe while holding it in the 3-jaw chuck and
tap as before. *Then remove from the chuck, and put a slitting saw in
your mill and cut a radial slit from the OD to the center hole. *Now,
put it back in the lathe chuck, orient the slit directly opposite one of
the jaws, screw in your screw while it is loose, then tighten the chuck
to close the slit and grip the thread.

I can see that one. Presumably steel jaws will grip into the aluminum
outside and prevent rotation. I found that *anything* held in the aluminum
jaws was not held strongly enough for cutting outside threads. Perhaps it is
a function of the chuck tightening mechanism, too (two tommy bars rather
than a key). With smaller stuff (my gnomons) I got around it by using the
1/8" collet. But forgret anything over 1/4".

--
Michael Koblic,

A quick, simple and less accurate way to do that is to wrap a piece of
sheet aluminum into a tube that doesn't quite close.

Cut a piece of 1/16" sheet the length you want and 3 times the
diameter. Lay the sheet across opened vise jaws, center the rod and
hammer the sheet into a U. Use the vise to close the sides nearly
parallel until you can clamp the U and rod in the vise with nearly
half the rod diameter above the jaws and knock the edges in further,
then finish the tube by squeezing it tighter around the rod with the
jaws, working all around. It may come out better in a smooth-jawed
milling vise.

jsw

On 2010-04-04, Michael Koblic wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

Hmm ... turn a ring for the OD of the aluminum jaws (or for
steps which you have turned on them to make them look like standard
chuck jaws) and expand the jaws into it to leave a grip diameter just a

[ ... ]

Yikes! A bit of an overkill for just two bolts.

Yes -- it makes more sense with more to do -- but consider
future use and mark the jaws in slot number order so you can re-use them
again at need. (Oh yes -- you can also turn the jaws around and use the
other end for a different special holder.

Or -- if you don't have soft jaws, take some aluminum of say 1"
OD (assuming your thread size is 1/2" or less), center drill it and
drill to tap size on the lathe while holding it in the 3-jaw chuck and
tap as before. Then remove from the chuck, and put a slitting saw in
your mill and cut a radial slit from the OD to the center hole. Now,
put it back in the lathe chuck, orient the slit directly opposite one of
the jaws, screw in your screw while it is loose, then tighten the chuck
to close the slit and grip the thread.

I can see that one. Presumably steel jaws will grip into the aluminum
outside and prevent rotation. I found that *anything* held in the aluminum
jaws was not held strongly enough for cutting outside threads.

How were you cutting the threads? Given that the lathe was a
Taig, I suspect that you were using a die. Single point cutting (in
multiple passes) the thread using a geared lathe feed generates a lot
less force, so you can cut threads without the workpiece slipping like
it was for you.

BTW Aluminum jaws gripping an aluminum "threaded collet" such as I
described above will grip better than smooth steel jaws on
aluminum -- though most steel jaws are not smooth. :-)

But if you bore a set of the aluminum jaws to a close fit on the
collet you just made, you will have better grip -- especially
considering that aluminum on aluminum tends to gall, improving
your grip. :-)

And -- you can take some valve grinding compound, and roll the
OD of the collet in that (with some force), so when the jaws are
tightened, the jaws grip a lot better by embedding the compound
in both the jaws and the OD of the collet.

Perhaps it is
a function of the chuck tightening mechanism, too (two tommy bars rather
than a key). With smaller stuff (my gnomons) I got around it by using the
1/8" collet. But forgret anything over 1/4".

Longer Tommy bars will give more leverage. Make them of a
larger diameter steel, with the ends turned down to fit the holes and to
bottom with very little turned down diameter left extending. Perhaps
make them of drill rod, and harden and draw appropriately. You don't
want them too hard (brittle), but you want them harder than the supplied
state of the drill rod.

But be careful to not make them too long, or you will deform the
holes in the chuck body and the scroll plate. Consider that my Taig
3-jaw only has the holes in the scroll plate, and I need to grip by the
chuck jaws to keep it from turning. (Hmm ... I probably should drill
holes for the Tommy bars in the chuck body to go with those in the
scroll plate.)

But yes -- the chuck key is giving you a *lot* of leverage for
tightening the scroll plate.

BTW -- how well lubricated is the scroll plate? The less you
have to fight friction in the plate bearings and in the scroll to jaw
tooth engagement, the more of your force will go towards tightening the
chuck jaws on the workpiece.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 08:57:07 -0500, RBnDFW
wrote:
snip
While I am very pleased with the 3" LMS vise, I am looking at buying a
smaller screwless vise for small work
snip
A smaller vise can be handy, especially if you can clamp the
smaller vise in the larger vise as this will allow you to
cut/drill compound angle holes at some cost saving over a
compound angle vise. Note that you can do the same thing with a
slotted right angle block with some loss in tool/table clearance
but some additional cost savings.

You will of course need some way to set/check the angles. While
somewhat expensive I find one of the small 3inch/75mm magnetic
sine bars to be very useful. Also get a space block set or use
feeler gages to set.

It all depends on the size/kind of the parts you will be making.
[inch] examples of
magnetic sine bar
http://www.hhip.com/products/product...ctID=3800-5410

that is cute as hell, but $160??

space block set [same as jo blocks for home shop use at 10% of
the price]
http://www.hhip.com/products/product...ctID=3101-0003
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32

that Enco set for $29.95 looks like a great deal. thanks!


right angle plate
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...MITEM=418-4325



Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Apr 5, 11:43*am, RBnDFW wrote:
...
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...O=950511&PARTP...

that Enco set for $29.95 looks like a great deal. thanks!

It's tricky to set up an insert vise on those thin angle blocks in a
milling vise. Unless you can c-clamp the blocks to the fixed jaw there
are too many loose parts to hold snugly in place as you tighten the
jaws. The thicker ones I suggested will stay in place by gravity,
their problem is excessive height if you have to stack the notched
ones.

Alternatively you can clamp a guide to the fixed jaw or to a large
slotted angle bolted to the table and use the thin angle blocks to
adjust it to the desired angle.

jsw

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2010-04-04, Michael Koblic wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

BTW Aluminum jaws gripping an aluminum "threaded collet" such as I
described above will grip better than smooth steel jaws on
aluminum -- though most steel jaws are not smooth. :-)

But if you bore a set of the aluminum jaws to a close fit on the
collet you just made, you will have better grip -- especially
considering that aluminum on aluminum tends to gall, improving
your grip. :-)

And -- you can take some valve grinding compound, and roll the
OD of the collet in that (with some force), so when the jaws are
tightened, the jaws grip a lot better by embedding the compound
in both the jaws and the OD of the collet.

Is that a problem with steel jaws for later use?

I need some lapping compound for another purpose (lapping dovetails) so I
shall go hunting this week. It is always so much fun watching the faces of
the shop assistants when you ask for something like that...

[...]

Longer Tommy bars will give more leverage. Make them of a
larger diameter steel, with the ends turned down to fit the holes and to
bottom with very little turned down diameter left extending. Perhaps
make them of drill rod, and harden and draw appropriately. You don't
want them too hard (brittle), but you want them harder than the supplied
state of the drill rod.

I put wooden handles on the wood lathe ones.

But be careful to not make them too long, or you will deform the
holes in the chuck body and the scroll plate. Consider that my Taig
3-jaw only has the holes in the scroll plate, and I need to grip by the
chuck jaws to keep it from turning. (Hmm ... I probably should drill
holes for the Tommy bars in the chuck body to go with those in the
scroll plate.)

But yes -- the chuck key is giving you a *lot* of leverage for
tightening the scroll plate.

I was kind of concerned - I can make the bars bend in my hands alone. Lord
knows what would happen with more leverage.


BTW -- how well lubricated is the scroll plate? The less you
have to fight friction in the plate bearings and in the scroll to jaw
tooth engagement, the more of your force will go towards tightening the
chuck jaws on the workpiece.

A squirt of graphite as per T-nut post. But I guess it could be better. It
is hard to know without having any standards to compare.


--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On 2010-04-06, Michael Koblic wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2010-04-04, Michael Koblic wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

BTW Aluminum jaws gripping an aluminum "threaded collet" such as I
described above will grip better than smooth steel jaws on
aluminum -- though most steel jaws are not smooth. :-)

But if you bore a set of the aluminum jaws to a close fit on the
collet you just made, you will have better grip -- especially
considering that aluminum on aluminum tends to gall, improving
your grip. :-)

And -- you can take some valve grinding compound, and roll the
OD of the collet in that (with some force), so when the jaws are
tightened, the jaws grip a lot better by embedding the compound
in both the jaws and the OD of the collet.

Is that a problem with steel jaws for later use?

Not really. If the jaws are hardened steel, they will simply
crush the compound deeper into the collet's OD. If they are mild steel,
you will get a better grip than you would otherwise have. Note that
Albrecht make a drill chuck which has diamond impregnated jaws for
avoiding slipping on hardened and ground tool shanks (typically milling
cutters, as standard drill bits have shanks of mild steel for easier
gripping, while the flutes and tip are HSS.

I need some lapping compound for another purpose (lapping dovetails) so I
shall go hunting this week. It is always so much fun watching the faces of
the shop assistants when you ask for something like that...

And watch them try to come up with obscene interpretations of
what you are asking for? :-)

[...]

Longer Tommy bars will give more leverage. Make them of a
larger diameter steel, with the ends turned down to fit the holes and to
bottom with very little turned down diameter left extending. Perhaps
make them of drill rod, and harden and draw appropriately. You don't
want them too hard (brittle), but you want them harder than the supplied
state of the drill rod.

I put wooden handles on the wood lathe ones.

Your wood lathe has that kind of chuck?

But be careful to not make them too long, or you will deform the
holes in the chuck body and the scroll plate. Consider that my Taig
3-jaw only has the holes in the scroll plate, and I need to grip by the
chuck jaws to keep it from turning. (Hmm ... I probably should drill
holes for the Tommy bars in the chuck body to go with those in the
scroll plate.)

But yes -- the chuck key is giving you a *lot* of leverage for
tightening the scroll plate.

I was kind of concerned - I can make the bars bend in my hands alone. Lord
knows what would happen with more leverage.

Then you need hardened and drawn drill rod, with the larger
diameter just outside the hole minimizing the bending. If you just
harden it fully, it will be too brittle and be likely to break of right
at the chuck body. So after hardening (for an oil or water hardening
drill rod -- be sure to use the proper quench agent for each) you can
re-heat it to a lower temperature -- at a guess about 450 F would be
reasonable and then leave it to cool normally. Air hardening drill rod
is difficult to get to less hard than your original quench produced, so
that should be avoided for this purpose. However, it is nice when you
are experiencing warpage when you quench because the air cooling is a
lot more gentle.

BTW -- how well lubricated is the scroll plate? The less you
have to fight friction in the plate bearings and in the scroll to jaw
tooth engagement, the more of your force will go towards tightening the
chuck jaws on the workpiece.

A squirt of graphite as per T-nut post. But I guess it could be better. It
is hard to know without having any standards to compare.

Did you work it in fully after squirting it? BTW -- Teenut
worked with serious sized industrial machines, and might have given
different advice for lubricating a chuck as small as a that used on a
Taig. (That advice might have been "Get a bigger machine" :-)

A pity that he is no longer with us.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2010-04-05, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Apr 5, 11:43*am, RBnDFW wrote:
...
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...O=950511&PARTP...

that Enco set for $29.95 looks like a great deal. thanks!

It's tricky to set up an insert vise on those thin angle blocks in a
milling vise. Unless you can c-clamp the blocks to the fixed jaw there
are too many loose parts to hold snugly in place as you tighten the
jaws. The thicker ones I suggested will stay in place by gravity,
their problem is excessive height if you have to stack the notched
ones.

Or -- you could use a sine bar and a cheap set of Chinese gauge
blocks to set the angle of the vise, then once it is clamped firmly,
slide the gauge blocks and the sine bar out from under it. Typical sine
bars are 5", larger ones 10", but I have one 2.5" one which is nice in a
small machine vise. (Of course, you have to adjust the size of the
gauge block stack for the length of the bar.) But the sine bar is a
real winner when you need an angle which would require several angel
blocks to build up the proper angle.

Or -- you could clamp the workpiece close to the right angle
(set by a protractor or the like) and place the sine bar and the gauge
blocks on top of it in reverse and use a dial test indicator to tell
when you have the right angle (zero change when the angle is right).

Alternatively you can clamp a guide to the fixed jaw or to a large
slotted angle bolted to the table and use the thin angle blocks to
adjust it to the desired angle.

Yes.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Apr 6, 10:06*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-04-05, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

* * * * Or -- you could use a sine bar and a cheap set of Chinese gauge
blocks to set the angle of the vise, then once it is clamped firmly,
slide the gauge blocks and the sine bar out from under it. *Typical sine
bars are 5", larger ones 10", but I have one 2.5" one which is nice in a
small machine vise. *(Of course, you have to adjust the size of the
gauge block stack for the length of the bar.) *But the sine bar is a
real winner when you need an angle which would require several angel
blocks to build up the proper angle.
* * * * * * * * DoN.

The 2.5" sine bar sounds like a good idea. The shortest one I have is
3" which is also the width of the bed of the vise and it slips off too
easily.

I don't think I've ever had to mill a flat surface at an angle that
wasn't an integral number of degrees, usually a multiple of 5, so the
angle block set has been more useful than my gage blocks. I've used
them with a sine bar only to measure the angle of a conical taper.

The tooth cutter for the tractor steering sector was ground for a 20
degrees pressure angle with a correction for side clearance, but I set
that up in a 3-way-swiveling Univise.

jsw

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...


[ ... ]

I need some lapping compound for another purpose (lapping dovetails) so I
shall go hunting this week. It is always so much fun watching the faces
of
the shop assistants when you ask for something like that...

And watch them try to come up with obscene interpretations of
what you are asking for? :-)

That would imply that they possess a) sense of humor and b) intelligence.

There is a game I play with my wife. We bet on the assistants' responses.
When asked "Can I help you?" while looking at an item one initiates the game
by responding: "Does this thing do (fill in as appropriate)?"

For 5 points the assistant starts reading the information on the packet.
For 10 points he starts lying through his teeth.

There are many variations....

[...]

I put wooden handles on the wood lathe ones.

Your wood lathe has that kind of chuck?

Nova Midi (Teknatool).

[...]

I was kind of concerned - I can make the bars bend in my hands alone.
Lord
knows what would happen with more leverage.

Then you need hardened and drawn drill rod, with the larger
diameter just outside the hole minimizing the bending. If you just
harden it fully, it will be too brittle and be likely to break of right
at the chuck body. So after hardening (for an oil or water hardening
drill rod -- be sure to use the proper quench agent for each) you can
re-heat it to a lower temperature -- at a guess about 450 F would be
reasonable and then leave it to cool normally. Air hardening drill rod
is difficult to get to less hard than your original quench produced, so
that should be avoided for this purpose. However, it is nice when you
are experiencing warpage when you quench because the air cooling is a
lot more gentle.

I am getting old and feeble in a hurry. It won't be an issue much longer.

BTW -- how well lubricated is the scroll plate? The less you
have to fight friction in the plate bearings and in the scroll to jaw
tooth engagement, the more of your force will go towards tightening the
chuck jaws on the workpiece.

A squirt of graphite as per T-nut post. But I guess it could be better.
It
is hard to know without having any standards to compare.

Did you work it in fully after squirting it? BTW -- Teenut
worked with serious sized industrial machines, and might have given
different advice for lubricating a chuck as small as a that used on a
Taig. (That advice might have been "Get a bigger machine" :-)

A pity that he is no longer with us.

He did not say anything about working it in! I squirt it in and run the
chuck scroll through the range of motion. Then I mount the chuck on the
spindle. Then I forget that I left some oil somewhere in the chuck recesses.
Then I wipe the oil/graphite solution off my face and everything else...( I
only read his post recently - before, I put oil everywhere and wondered why
the chucks were a bugger to clean).

The info, BTW, comes from his post where he strongly advises home machine
owners *not* to use way oil and use *detergent* motor oil for the ways
amongst other things. I probably should not have mentioned it. I can see
scores of people reading it spontaneously combusting...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On 2010-04-07, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Apr 6, 10:06*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-04-05, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

* * * * Or -- you could use a sine bar and a cheap set of Chinese gauge
blocks to set the angle of the vise, then once it is clamped firmly,
slide the gauge blocks and the sine bar out from under it. *Typical sine
bars are 5", larger ones 10", but I have one 2.5" one which is nice in a
small machine vise. *(Of course, you have to adjust the size of the
gauge block stack for the length of the bar.) *But the sine bar is a
real winner when you need an angle which would require several angel
blocks to build up the proper angle.
* * * * * * * * DoN.

The 2.5" sine bar sounds like a good idea. The shortest one I have is
3" which is also the width of the bed of the vise and it slips off too
easily.

Take a single parallel and lay it down on the clean bed of the
vise, so your 3" sine bar footprint won't cause problems.

I don't think I've ever had to mill a flat surface at an angle that
wasn't an integral number of degrees, usually a multiple of 5, so the
angle block set has been more useful than my gage blocks. I've used
them with a sine bar only to measure the angle of a conical taper.

I've used the 2.5" sine bar in my shaper's vise to make a piece
of aluminum have half the included angle of an Acme thread to use it in
a toolmaker's vise for setting the half-angle on my surface grinder for
making a couple of Acme threading tools. The toolmaker's vise was
mounted on a sine plate to set the relief angles for the particular
thread pitch being cut -- reversed for the internal threading tool of
course.

The tooth cutter for the tractor steering sector was ground for a 20
degrees pressure angle with a correction for side clearance, but I set
that up in a 3-way-swiveling Univise.

O.K. I don't have one of those.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Apr 8, 6:19*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-04-07, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Apr 6, 10:06*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-04-05, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...
* * * * Take a single parallel and lay it down on the clean bed of the
vise, so your 3" sine bar footprint won't cause problems.

They are thin sine bars like (A):
http://www.penntoolco.com/images/catalog/4820.gif
which were a waste of money. They are almost too tall for my milling
vise anyway.

I don't think I've ever had to mill a flat surface at an angle that
wasn't an integral number of degrees, usually a multiple of 5, so the
angle block set has been more useful than my gage blocks. I've used
them with a sine bar only to measure the angle of a conical taper.

* * * * I've used the 2.5" sine bar in my shaper's vise to make a piece
of aluminum have half the included angle of an Acme thread to use it in
a toolmaker's vise for setting the half-angle on my surface grinder for
making a couple of Acme threading tools. *The toolmaker's vise was
mounted on a sine plate to set the relief angles for the particular
thread pitch being cut -- reversed for the internal threading tool of
course.
....
...3-way-swiveling Univise.

* * * * O.K. *I don't have one of those.
* * * * * * * * DoN.

The Univise was adequate for my gear cutter but it would be difficult
to set close enough for a precision Acme thread. I bought it to use as
the base of a Quorn-style tool holder.

There are half and quarter degree plates available for the angle block
sets.

jsw