On 16 Jul 2003 05:14:41 GMT, (MichaelMandavil) wrote:
Could someone please explain to me the relative advantages and disadvantages of
a mill drill, as compared to a drill mill? Or is this one of the questions
which only the great masters of machinery are allowed to contemplate? +:]

A mill drill is a machine, invented in Taiwan, which consists of a heavy drill press
head with a drawbar to retain milling cutter holders in the taper of its spindle (usually
R8 or MT3), mounted on a column over an a XY table used for positioning the work.
It is intended for light milling and moderately heavy drilling applications.

A drill mill is a specialized machine intended to mill drill bits of the kind used for
deep hole drilling (with high pressure oil pumped through them). These machines
are rarely seen today since any ordinary CNC machining center can quickly
produce the bits (now usually using carbide inserts), so a specialized machine
is no longer required to make them.

Gary

Subject: Mill drill, or drill mill?
From: (Gary Coffman)
Date: 7/16/2003 2:59 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 16 Jul 2003 05:14:41 GMT, (MichaelMandavil) wrote:
Could someone please explain to me the relative advantages and disadvantages
of
a mill drill, as compared to a drill mill? Or is this one of the questions
which only the great masters of machinery are allowed to contemplate? +:]

A mill drill is a machine, invented in Taiwan, which consists of a heavy
drill press
head with a drawbar to retain milling cutter holders in the taper of its
spindle (usually
R8 or MT3), mounted on a column over an a XY table used for positioning the
work.
It is intended for light milling and moderately heavy drilling applications.

A drill mill is a specialized machine intended to mill drill bits of the kind
used for
deep hole drilling (with high pressure oil pumped through them). These
machines
are rarely seen today since any ordinary CNC machining center can quickly
produce the bits (now usually using carbide inserts), so a specialized
machine
is no longer required to make them.

Gary

Hello, Gary,

Your answer is a good one, and certainly not incorrect, although I now see that
it will be necessary for me to leave a link here in order to demonstrate just
what it is that I mean. Here is the type of drill mill to which I am
referring:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42976

Of course, if this type of drill mill was just a mill drill by another name,
then that would certainly seem to answer the question, although I am beginning
to get the idea that this is not actually the case.

More specifically, the above drill mill is considerably larger than a mill
drill which sells for less. Therefore, it seems reasonable to me that the mill
drill would have to have something going for it that the drill mill does not,
in order for the mill drill to have any sales appeal at all.

Michael

a seeker of truth about mill drills and drill mills

When discussing mill drills and drill mills, one might philosophize that it
could be easy to make a mistake, and I have just made one. The smaller mill
drill sells for _more_ than the larger drill mill is what I intended to say. I
am sure that this is completely clear to everyone now! +:]

Michael

I Chinglish suspecting am.

MichaelMandavil wrote:

Subject: Mill drill, or drill mill?
From: (Gary Coffman)
Date: 7/16/2003 2:59 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 16 Jul 2003 05:14:41 GMT, (MichaelMandavil) wrote:

Could someone please explain to me the relative advantages and disadvantages

of

a mill drill, as compared to a drill mill? Or is this one of the questions
which only the great masters of machinery are allowed to contemplate? +:]

A mill drill is a machine, invented in Taiwan, which consists of a heavy
drill press
head with a drawbar to retain milling cutter holders in the taper of its
spindle (usually
R8 or MT3), mounted on a column over an a XY table used for positioning the
work.
It is intended for light milling and moderately heavy drilling applications.

A drill mill is a specialized machine intended to mill drill bits of the kind
used for
deep hole drilling (with high pressure oil pumped through them). These
machines
are rarely seen today since any ordinary CNC machining center can quickly
produce the bits (now usually using carbide inserts), so a specialized
machine
is no longer required to make them.

Gary


Hello, Gary,

Your answer is a good one, and certainly not incorrect, although I now see that
it will be necessary for me to leave a link here in order to demonstrate just
what it is that I mean. Here is the type of drill mill to which I am
referring:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42976

Of course, if this type of drill mill was just a mill drill by another name,
then that would certainly seem to answer the question, although I am beginning
to get the idea that this is not actually the case.

More specifically, the above drill mill is considerably larger than a mill
drill which sells for less. Therefore, it seems reasonable to me that the mill
drill would have to have something going for it that the drill mill does not,
in order for the mill drill to have any sales appeal at all.

Michael

a seeker of truth about mill drills and drill mills

Joining you in bet making I am.
check out www.engrish.com for a few chuckles

Erich

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I Chinglish suspecting am.

MichaelMandavil wrote:

Subject: Mill drill, or drill mill?
From: (Gary Coffman)
Date: 7/16/2003 2:59 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 16 Jul 2003 05:14:41 GMT, (MichaelMandavil)
wrote:

Could someone please explain to me the relative advantages and
disadvantages

of

a mill drill, as compared to a drill mill? Or is this one of the
questions
which only the great masters of machinery are allowed to contemplate?
+:]

A mill drill is a machine, invented in Taiwan, which consists of a heavy
drill press
head with a drawbar to retain milling cutter holders in the taper of its
spindle (usually
R8 or MT3), mounted on a column over an a XY table used for positioning
the
work.
It is intended for light milling and moderately heavy drilling
applications.

A drill mill is a specialized machine intended to mill drill bits of the
kind
used for
deep hole drilling (with high pressure oil pumped through them). These
machines
are rarely seen today since any ordinary CNC machining center can
quickly
produce the bits (now usually using carbide inserts), so a specialized
machine
is no longer required to make them.

Gary


Hello, Gary,

Your answer is a good one, and certainly not incorrect, although I now
see that
it will be necessary for me to leave a link here in order to demonstrate
just
what it is that I mean. Here is the type of drill mill to which I am
referring:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42976

Of course, if this type of drill mill was just a mill drill by another
name,
then that would certainly seem to answer the question, although I am
beginning
to get the idea that this is not actually the case.

More specifically, the above drill mill is considerably larger than a
mill
drill which sells for less. Therefore, it seems reasonable to me that
the mill
drill would have to have something going for it that the drill mill does
not,
in order for the mill drill to have any sales appeal at all.

Michael

a seeker of truth about mill drills and drill mills

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:09:33 GMT, Stan Stocker
pixelated:

A mill drill has a lot of the features that make it usuable for milling.
I looked at this particular machine at the Richmond VA store a while
back. I didn't see any graduated or fine control for down feed, the
table looked and felt like crap. The whole thing was just too light and
cobbled up. Take a look at the Grizzly G1005 or better yet G1006,
compare the specs.

The G1005 appears to compare directly with the
HFT (but Griz DOES do better finish machining on
their products than HFT even if the castings are
the same.) The G1006 appears to be a much better
made model with a much more precise head. You don't
see 0.001" calibration specs on HFT machines. g
How do those compare to the $1k Enco models? The
G1006 appears to be the same machine, a Rong-Fu.
http://www.irvansmith.com/catalog2/p...ll_drill.shtml
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...emnumber=G1006

I haven't seen any smaller "mill/Drills", although there are the mini
mills that sell for around $400 to $500. From what I've seen, these are
better pieces of equipment than the drill/mill you refer to.

This unit looked just plain awful, as though someone had the "great"
idea of milling with a drill press and addressed the need for a drawbar
and not much else.

Complete with 0.010" runout, minimum, not to mention 1/16"
slop in the spindle, which is completely adjustable with a
setscrew held directly against the spindle. I have their
$39.95 5sp drill and it's well worth just that, no more.

"Be the change you want to see in the world." --Mahatma Gandhi
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:09:33 GMT, Stan Stocker
pixelated:

snipped


The G1005 appears to compare directly with the
HFT (but Griz DOES do better finish machining on
their products than HFT even if the castings are
the same.) The G1006 appears to be a much better
made model with a much more precise head. You don't
see 0.001" calibration specs on HFT machines. g
How do those compare to the $1k Enco models? The
G1006 appears to be the same machine, a Rong-Fu.
http://www.irvansmith.com/catalog2/p...ll_drill.shtml
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...emnumber=G1006

snip
Hi Larry,

The G1005 is a smaller mill drill. Side by side with the G1006 that
look the same, just the 1005 is smaller. I think the larger table and
thicker column make the G1006 quite a bit more useful.

I notice on the Grizzly site that the G1005 is now "G1005Z" I don't
know if this now means these are sourced from PRC rather than Taiwan.
My G1006 is from Taiwan, it's either a rebadged RF30 or a darn good copy.

The Grizzly G0517 appears to be the same (or very similar) machine as
the HF unit the original post referred to, just green :-)

Cheers,
Stan

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:23:32 GMT, Stan Stocker
pixelated:

Larry Jaques wrote:
The G1005 is a smaller mill drill. Side by side with the G1006 that
look the same, just the 1005 is smaller. I think the larger table and
thicker column make the G1006 quite a bit more useful.

I meant the Enco mill/drill and the G1006 appeared
to be the same machine.


I notice on the Grizzly site that the G1005 is now "G1005Z" I don't
know if this now means these are sourced from PRC rather than Taiwan.
My G1006 is from Taiwan, it's either a rebadged RF30 or a darn good copy.

How do you like it? When I finally get tired of
fabricating my repair parts with vise/hammer/file
and belt sander, I may jump for either a mini-mill
or G1006. I like the Griz products but own mostly
woodworking machines from them.


The Grizzly G0517 appears to be the same (or very similar) machine as
the HF unit the original post referred to, just green :-)

The G1005Z and G0517 look related, too, with 1-or-sub-HP
ratings. Those models and the HF stuff are pretty much
"wannabe machines", wot?

---
Chaos, panic, and disorder--my work here is done.
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

That's Engrish you plick.




"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I Chinglish suspecting am.

MichaelMandavil wrote:

Subject: Mill drill, or drill mill?
From: (Gary Coffman)
Date: 7/16/2003 2:59 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 16 Jul 2003 05:14:41 GMT, (MichaelMandavil)
wrote:

Could someone please explain to me the relative advantages and
disadvantages

of

a mill drill, as compared to a drill mill? Or is this one of the
questions
which only the great masters of machinery are allowed to contemplate?
+:]

A mill drill is a machine, invented in Taiwan, which consists of a heavy
drill press
head with a drawbar to retain milling cutter holders in the taper of its
spindle (usually
R8 or MT3), mounted on a column over an a XY table used for positioning
the
work.
It is intended for light milling and moderately heavy drilling
applications.

A drill mill is a specialized machine intended to mill drill bits of the
kind
used for
deep hole drilling (with high pressure oil pumped through them). These
machines
are rarely seen today since any ordinary CNC machining center can
quickly
produce the bits (now usually using carbide inserts), so a specialized
machine
is no longer required to make them.

Gary


Hello, Gary,

Your answer is a good one, and certainly not incorrect, although I now
see that
it will be necessary for me to leave a link here in order to demonstrate
just
what it is that I mean. Here is the type of drill mill to which I am
referring:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42976

Of course, if this type of drill mill was just a mill drill by another
name,
then that would certainly seem to answer the question, although I am
beginning
to get the idea that this is not actually the case.

More specifically, the above drill mill is considerably larger than a
mill
drill which sells for less. Therefore, it seems reasonable to me that
the mill
drill would have to have something going for it that the drill mill does
not,
in order for the mill drill to have any sales appeal at all.

Michael

a seeker of truth about mill drills and drill mills

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:23:32 GMT, Stan Stocker
pixelated:


Larry Jaques wrote:
The G1005 is a smaller mill drill. Side by side with the G1006 that
look the same, just the 1005 is smaller. I think the larger table and
thicker column make the G1006 quite a bit more useful.


I meant the Enco mill/drill and the G1006 appeared
to be the same machine.

They may very well come from the same factory. If one is better than
the other I can't say, there haven't been any complaints on the
mill/drill yahoo group about Enco Mill Drills related to QC problems.
They certainly appear very similar if not identical from the flyer and
catalog photos and descriptions.

Thr loss of registration when moving the head on a round column
mill/drill is always an issue when step drilling/reaming, but spuds or
indicators do well enough for me so far.

I notice on the Grizzly site that the G1005 is now "G1005Z" I don't
know if this now means these are sourced from PRC rather than Taiwan.
My G1006 is from Taiwan, it's either a rebadged RF30 or a darn good copy.

How do you like it? When I finally get tired of
fabricating my repair parts with vise/hammer/file
and belt sander, I may jump for either a mini-mill
or G1006. I like the Griz products but own mostly
woodworking machines from them.

I've been really pleased with the G1006. The provided vise is a tilting
drill press vise, and the provided drill chuck got crunchy in a few
months. Other than that, the only changes I've made were changing over
to power twist belts (a big improvement, putting good quality B sized
belts on the machine would do as well I think), making larger handles as
the plastic handles were small for my hands, and adding a power feed. I
did tram the head, it seems all the mill drills need this done. I've
had mine for probably 6 years now, still feel good about having
purchased it. A large knee mill would be nice, but this machine does
nicely for me.

The Grizzly G0517 appears to be the same (or very similar) machine as
the HF unit the original post referred to, just green :-)

The G1005Z and G0517 look related, too, with 1-or-sub-HP
ratings. Those models and the HF stuff are pretty much
"wannabe machines", wot?

They are quite different. The G1005 has a worm feed for fine down feed
and a well made table. Hopefully the "Z" version is still as good. The
G1005 is just a somewhat smaller version of the G1006, in side by
side photos where the machine heights were the same it would be hard to
distiguish the two apart other than the smaller table. I guess this
machine is a step up in size from Taig or Sherline mini-mills or
benchtop mini-mills. If you don't need the larger table or just plain
can't fit a larger table into your shop it's a pretty nice machine. I
just know how quickly you can run out of table or daylight, so think the
extra $200 to get the G1006 sized machine makes good sense. The extra
mass and rigidity provided by the larger column, and the additional HP
rating are big pluses unless you just can't afford the room or handle
the extra weight. The first time you mill an engine head the difference
in price is paid for.

The G0517 sets height by racking the column up and down through the
base, no fine down feed, an MT3 rather than R8 spindle, a smaller
diameter column, smaller table, and weighs around 130 pounds less than
the G1005.

I would consider the G0517 and other machines that match it to be
wannabee machines, while the Taig, Sherline, and G1005 sized machines
are perfectly usable machines when used for work that fits a smaller
machine.

There are good machines in all sizes, smaller ones have less power and
capacity of course. I love my Taig and jewelers lathes, but sure am
glad to have larger lathes as well. For clock work I've been giving
some real thought to adding either a Taig or Sherline mill. Maybe 4
axis CNC to take out some of the tedium cutting wheels (gears for non
clock folks!) Then again I may just make a dedicated small benchtop
machine for this task and save quite a bit of money :-)

Cheers,
Stan

MichaelMandavil wrote:
From: Stan Stocker

Greetings,

A mill drill has a lot of the features that make it usuable for
milling. I looked at this particular machine at the Richmond VA
store a while back. I didn't see any graduated or fine control for
down feed, the table looked and felt like crap. The whole thing was
just too light and cobbled up. Take a look at the Grizzly G1005 or
better yet G1006, compare the specs.

I haven't seen any smaller "mill/Drills", although there are the mini
mills that sell for around $400 to $500. From what I've seen, these
are better pieces of equipment than the drill/mill you refer to.

This unit looked just plain awful, as though someone had the "great"
idea of milling with a drill press and addressed the need for a
drawbar and not much else.

I was looking for a small mill/drill to complement some of the other
equipment around here, but left my wallet in my pocket on that trip.

Cheers,
Stan

Hello, Stan,

Your answer will give me a good start at comparing the two machines
to one another. By the way, here is the mill drill to which I was
referring:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44991

The drill mill weighs three times as much, though it sells for a
hundred dollars less. It looks like what I am considering here is
size verses features, and I guess I will need to compare the relative
value of each for my application, which is to build internal
combustion engines.

I have found a mailing list for the drill mill, and I probably will
be able to find one for the mill drill as well. As long as I know
what I am getting myself in for, I think I will do alright. Any
additional comments from you, though, or from anyone else, will be
appreciared, for, as you can see, I am on a quest for enlightenment
on this matter. 8-)

Thanks,

Michael

Michael Mandaville

Why buy something like that when the used machinery market is in the toilet?
If you can afford to go to some auctions and jockey around some heavy
machinery there are some real deals out there.