I am running a ditch about 200 feet from my house to run power to my
building. I see no way from making turns because I have to avoid
septic tank, etc. I will use pvc. Is it best to run gently turns
minimizing the sharpness of the angle or just do 90's and the
appropriate 90 degree fitting? WIll I be able to pull wire at a later
date if I do the 90's?

On Oct 25, 5:18*am, stryped wrote:
I am running a ditch about 200 feet from my house to *run power to my
building. I see no way from making turns because I have to avoid
septic tank, etc. I will use pvc. Is it best to run gently turns
minimizing the sharpness of the angle or just do 90's and the
appropriate 90 degree fitting? WIll I be able to pull wire at a later
date if I do the 90's?

That is why they make 45 degree bends! Why can't you put the wire in
the conduit as you go? Always include a pull rope for later additions.

If you have to avoid the septic tank, then you also need to avoid the
drain-field from the septic tank. Can you do that?

Paul

" wrote in message
...
On Oct 25, 5:18 am, stryped wrote:
I am running a ditch about 200 feet from my house to run power to my
building. I see no way from making turns because I have to avoid
septic tank, etc. I will use pvc. Is it best to run gently turns
minimizing the sharpness of the angle or just do 90's and the
appropriate 90 degree fitting? WIll I be able to pull wire at a later
date if I do the 90's?

You can buy smaller bends than 90 and 45. Use a large weed burner to heat
the pipe VERY SLOWLY over a large area to make gradual sweeping bends. Even
though most guys will tell you otherwise, some times it is a real bitch to
get a sizeable cable through a conduit once it has been buried. I am
currently doing the same thing, with 2.5" PVC conduit (it was free) and 2/0
aluminum direct bury cable. I have been told that it is easy to pull this
through, but I am going to pass the pipe onto the cable, glue it, let it
dry, and then bury the assembled pipe rather than burying it and then
pulling it. Sometimes it pulls easy, sometimes it don't. I'm not going to
find out, but put the wire in there with the pipe.

Steve

Is it best to run gently turns
minimizing the sharpness of the angle or just do 90's and the
appropriate 90 degree fitting? WIll I be able to pull wire at a later
date if I do the 90's?

Stryped

First of all use sweeps instead of 90 degree fittings. Electrical PVC
will bend some so plan your run around and with the routing some more.
At the ends use sweeps again to terminate the run. Also LBs. Fittings
with removeable covers. And install pull wires or a rope as you go
along. It also might be prudent to put an inline LB in the middle of
the run. And also pull in something for a phone, cable TV, computer
and remote control of electrical things. An additional 1" conduit.
With a pull wire or rope. Be sure to include a ground wire and neutral
wire. You did not mention amps and phases so I have not included any
of this information. A 200 foot run will have to include wire sizing
for distance and loading. The remote or sub panel will have the
neutral buss isolated from ground. A ground rod at the end will be
prudent if not required by the AHJ,

Write more with amp and voltage information. remember the sub panel
breaker in the source will have sizing specs separate from what the
breaker sizing is in the feeding panel.

Bob AZ

On Oct 25, 11:18 pm, stryped wrote:
I am running a ditch about 200 feet from my house to run power to my
building. I see no way from making turns because I have to avoid
septic tank, etc. I will use pvc. Is it best to run gently turns
minimizing the sharpness of the angle or just do 90's and the
appropriate 90 degree fitting? WIll I be able to pull wire at a later
date if I do the 90's?

Well, I assume you will be following the relevant standards - here in
OZ at any rate its
orange power
yellow gas
white telecoms.

and there is an associated vertical clearance between each pipe if
your putting them in the same trench. Oh, and lay a tracer wire near
the top - means you can locate the (plastic) pipe years later when you
cant remember where the trench runs,,,,

Gradual, sweeping bends are fine, else use pre-formed bends (its what
there made for) - run a draw wire in the pipe as you lay it, and
ALWAYS pull in a new draw wire with each new length of cable.

My experience of faults in this area has been that blockages occur
when
1.The pipe is crushed by backfill
2 There are voids left under a section of pipe, so its distorted by
backfill. Throw crushed rock/sand under these before you backfill.
3. Poor gluing of joints - this last one can be a killer as it is
exacerbated by the above 2.

Do not skimp on the process, it will be a real bitch to fix years
later if something goes wrong.

Andrew VK3BFA.

On Oct 25, 3:54*pm, Bob AZ wrote:
*Is it best to run gently turns

minimizing the sharpness of the angle or just do 90's and the
appropriate 90 degree fitting? WIll I be able to pull wire at a later
date if I do the 90's?

Stryped

First of all use sweeps instead of 90 degree fittings. Electrical PVC
will bend some so plan your run around and with the routing some more.
At the ends use sweeps again to terminate the run. Also LBs. Fittings
with removeable covers. And install pull wires or a rope as you go
along. It also might be prudent to put an inline LB in the middle of
the run. And also pull in something for a phone, cable TV, computer
and remote control of electrical things. An additional 1" conduit.
With a pull wire or rope. Be sure to include a ground wire and neutral
wire. You did not mention amps and phases so I have not included any
of this information. A 200 foot run will have to include wire sizing
for distance and loading. The remote or sub panel will have the
neutral buss isolated from ground. A ground rod at the end will be
prudent if not required by the AHJ,

Write more *with amp and voltage information. remember the sub panel
breaker in the source will have sizing specs separate from what the
breaker sizing is in the feeding panel.

Bob *AZ

This will be a 200-250 foot run form my house to the detatched garage
with s few bends because I have to avoid my septic tank and field
lines.

It will be 100 amp run. Not sure yet what wire size I need. I am going
two ground rods in the trench as well as a ground from my house panel
to this sub panel.

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 05:18:18 -0700, stryped wrote:

This will be a 200-250 foot run form my house to the detatched garage
with s few bends because I have to avoid my septic tank and field
lines.

It will be 100 amp run. Not sure yet what wire size I need. I am going
two ground rods in the trench as well as a ground from my house panel
to this sub panel.

JFGI: http://www.google.com/search?q=ampacity-chart

Have Fun!
Rich

This will be a 200-250 foot run form my house to the detatched garage
with s few bends because I have to avoid my septic tank and field
lines.

It will be 100 amp run. Not sure yet what wire size I need. I am going
two ground rods in the trench as well as a ground from my house panel
to this sub panel.- Hide quoted text -

Stryped

With a 100 amp run you will need to carefully check your service panel
for the maximun circuit breaker size for a sub panel. This will also
effect the subpanel size. Also be aware that one can use a larger
panel for a subpanel to gain more circuit breaker spaces. e.g. a 125
amp subpanel but fed with a 60 amp breaker. Even with a 200 amp panel
the limit on CB sizes for a sub panel might not be 100 amp. Mine is
this way. I have a 200 amp service panel with the meter in the same
enclosure. Maximize the number of CB spaces by installing a larger
size subpanel than 100 amp. Then you will be able to maximize the
number of 220 volt loads. Like for power tools such as a lathe and
milling machine. And for the AC if this is part of your plans.

A 100 amp 200+ foot run will probably require a 2 size increase in
wire size. e.g. From # 1 wire to 00. Don't use aluminum. Less
expensive now but the future will cost you a bundle. As I frequently
say Pound Stupid - Future Smart.

There is or should be a ground bar or two at your service panel. Two
at the sub panel location would also be prudent. Be sure to space them
as the NEC requires. Also the ground wire should be without splices as
it runs from one ground rod to another and onto the ground buss in the
panel. You might want to run in a separate 1/2" conduit for the ground
wire from the ground rods. I have used a conduit sized LB in the feed
from the service panel to provide an entrance for the ground wire.
Again do not connect the neutral buss to the ground buss.

Bob AZ

"Bob AZ" wrote

A 100 amp 200+ foot run will probably require a 2 size increase in
wire size. e.g. From # 1 wire to 00. Don't use aluminum. Less
expensive now but the future will cost you a bundle. As I frequently
say Pound Stupid - Future Smart.

Bob AZ

Say what? For a 200' run of 2/0 aluminum direct bury, it's $350. For three
runs of #3 copper, and a #6 ground, it's nearly $900. I think I got the
sizes correct, but I don't have that slip of paper in front of me, and I
forget things easy. I do remember the prices clearly, though. The prices
are for wiring that will carry comparable loads. I'm putting it in conduit,
but am still using direct bury aluminum, as then I don't have to trench part
of the way which is in caliche.

My friend is a journeyman union electrician. He told me for a shop my size,
aluminum would be fine. Now, I'm not going to be running big welders, but
for what I want it for, it is oversized. He has done a lot of work for me,
and is highly trained in high voltage work, and even underwater work doing
work on the fountains at various Las Vegas casinos. I trust what he says.

Why in the world would I want to spend $900 when $350 will do? What's so
bad about aluminum in the future?

Steve

On Oct 26, 8:42�pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"Bob AZ" wrote

A 100 amp 200+ foot run will probably require a 2 size increase in
wire size. e.g. From # 1 wire to 00. Don't use aluminum. Less
expensive now but the future will cost you a bundle. As I frequently
say Pound Stupid - Future Smart.
Bob �AZ

Say what? �For a 200' run of 2/0 aluminum direct bury, it's $350. �For three
runs of #3 copper, and a #6 ground, it's nearly $900. �I think I got the
sizes correct, but I don't have that slip of paper in front of me, and I
forget things easy. �I do remember the prices clearly, though. �The prices
are for wiring that will carry comparable loads. �I'm putting it in conduit,
but am still using direct bury aluminum, as then I don't have to trench part
of the way which is in caliche.

My friend is a journeyman union electrician. �He told me for a shop my size,
aluminum would be fine. �Now, I'm not going to be running big welders, but
for what I want it for, it is oversized. �He has done a lot of work for me,
and is highly trained in high voltage work, and even underwater work doing
work on the fountains at various Las Vegas casinos. �I trust what he says.

Why in the world would I want to spend $900 when $350 will do? �What's so
bad about aluminum in the future?

Steve

With aluminum you will have to go a guage bigger. So 00 for copper and
000 for aluminum. I am not sure about the ground size. 6 maybe and
possibility 4.

You will have to trench. Direct burial or not. Or run overhead. Also
you will have to trench big enough to cover whatever with sand.
Probably 12". Is a permit part of your plans? I am well acquainted
with caliche having lived with it for 65 years.

Aluminum wire has a bad habit of failing when buried and in contact
with anything but aluminum. The power company used to use it here but
they are well equipped to deal with it. You and I are not. I have not
seen any use of it in the last 20 years. Does Home Depot still carry
it?

Bob AZ

"Bob AZ" wrote

With aluminum you will have to go a guage bigger. So 00 for copper and
000 for aluminum. I am not sure about the ground size. 6 maybe and
possibility 4.

Yes. as statec, 2/0 instead of #3.

You will have to trench. Direct burial or not. Or run overhead. Also
you will have to trench big enough to cover whatever with sand.
Probably 12". Is a permit part of your plans? I am well acquainted
with caliche having lived with it for 65 years.

No permit.

Aluminum wire has a bad habit of failing when buried and in contact
with anything but aluminum. The power company used to use it here but
they are well equipped to deal with it. You and I are not. I have not
seen any use of it in the last 20 years. Does Home Depot still carry
it?

It will be in 2.5" PVC pipe except for the little bit in direct bury. HD,
no. From a supply house.

Bob AZ

Andrew VK3BFA wrote:

Do not skimp on the process, it will be a real bitch to fix years
later if something goes wrong.

http://tdworld.com/mag/power_one_wire_enough/

Wes

On Oct 26, 10:02*pm, Bob AZ wrote:

Aluminum wire has a bad habit of failing when buried and in contact
with anything but aluminum. The power company used to use it here but
they are well equipped to deal with it. You and I are not.

Aluminum wire has a bad habit of failing quickly when installed by
lazy idiots. When installed by competent tradesmen it works fine for
decades. Run in PVC conduit, buried in sand and with cement strips
planked on top to protect it it will work well. Do understand how to
deal with freezing and condensation in the conduit.