On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:50:10 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:09:54 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 04:26:51 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
om...
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 01:01:45 -0500, "William Wixon"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
I just got my weekly set of NRA special offers and I'm happy to
report
that
we can now buy NRA-logo car air fresheners, in a variety of scents.

"Did you ever wonder what to do about that rabbit or duck your
forgot
about under your truck seat last week? Afraid that ordinary air
fresheners
won't do the job?

"Well, worry no more. NRA's line of heavy-duty air fresheners will
cover
up the foulest of dead game smells, the accident your beagle had in
the
back seat, and the stale hunting shirt you haven't washed since
1987.
Available in three potent aromas -- Hoppe's No. 10, Burnt Cordite,
and
Eau
de Urine Deer Scent.

You get three different, colorful NRA logos printed in two sides on
heavy,
3" diameter card stock.Hang cords are already attached, so all you
need
to
do is decide where these breaths of fresh NRA air are most needed!

Imported, of course. None of that domestic crap for the NRA...

http://www.nrastore.com/nra/Product....tid=HO%2022675

--
Ed Huntress



i know a guy who was quite ****ed off because he suspected the reason
someone let the air out of his tires was because he had a "BUSH '08"
sticker
on his bumper. i'd be afraid to put a NRA air freshener in my car for
fear
someone would vandalize my car. (especially if i parked it in a SUNY
New
Paltz parking lot.)

b.w.

Actually..I had a little cockbreath in a Honda with a rainbow sticker
scratching off the Bush stickers on my service truck in 2004. I chased
him into his car, pulled my service truck behind him so he couldnt get
out.then cut off his valve stems. All 4 of them.

He was screaming at me (from a locked car) about vandalism etc
etc...then I mentioned that he ruined the entire paint job on my
truck...he could sue for vandalism to $12 worth of valve stems..and Id
go for $5000 in paint. Or he could step out of the Honda and Id bust
his ass. His choice. He quieted down rapidly. Then I bashed his
windshield a couple times and drove off. I bashed his windshield
with
a hammer btw. But only a couple times.

It was a fun election cycle. Had another asshole pull up behind
me...start beeping his horn like an idiot..pulled up beside me and
started flipping me off and screaming at me because Bush had just won
the election. I started making monkey faces at him, drying my eyes
with
a hanky etc until I had him so upset that he rear ended another car
pretty hard..and then smiled and waved as I drove on down the 405
freeway...as steam was rising from his crumpled hood and the 3 BIG
black
guys were walking back to the little morons piece of **** car.

Crom but I love ****ing with beligerant Leftards. Of course they are
retarded children, no matter the age..and its really not nice to pick
on
retards..but hey...they are only Leftards. Its not like they are
humans
or anything.

Just goes to show how many utter morons live in Southern California.

Shrug


Gunner

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab
your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

My Ford van had a "NAVY" sticker on the bumper when I bought it from the
Navy. Sadly, I didn't have the balls to leave it on. Liberals are
strange
and can get violent and I really'd hate to have to do the paperwork when
I'd
have to shoot them, so I take precautions not to provoke them by
advertising
anything religious, wholesome, patriotic or just.

You should have put a NRA sticker near the NAVY sticker. One tends to
protect the other. Ive got an NRA sticker on the extended cab window
behind the drivers window. I used to put em on the back bumper..but Id
rather a bad guy approaches and sees the sticker, about the same time he
sees the little bity silver thingy with the really big hole in the end
of it. I just love surprises!!

Had that happen in East LA last year. Parked on the curb..and a gomer
tried sneaking up on the cab..was doing service reports and watched him
coming in the mirror. Had a knife tucked in his hand. I reached over
and locked the door and put my little 45 in my lap. The window was about
half down and he got to the window, reached in with his knife...and I
was holding the 45 pointing at his face as I held on to his hand,
flipped it backwards, he dropped the knife..and I put it into drive.
Guy could run pretty good for about the first 2 blocks..then he started
getting tired.

You know that a black kid will actually bounce off a building pretty
damned good, when a corner is turned and the throttle is stomped on
when entering an alley? Thats what they say anyways. They say bones
break and you can actually hear it. Shrug..sounds messy to me. Bet
the kid didnt do it again in such a sloppy fashion. Or maybe never.
Hitting a building at 25mph+ can wreck a guys whole day. Thats what they
say anyways.

My dogs found the whole thing really interesting.

Shrug

Gunner


The local County Sheriff's office finally finished my background check and
called me in to get photographed and print my permit. After 1/2 hour of
the
deputy flubbing with the computer he called in a lady deputy that told him
to "click on that thingy there". Well, after another 15 minutes I
politely
asked if I could look at it. 2 minutes later and a reboot the laminator
spit out my CCW permit. Very nice people, just not byte heads. If you
remember, I swore I'd never carry. That was before the Obama voters were
empowered. My entire staff except my sister and my accountant now have
permits.

Bravo! Now to work on your sister and the accountant.

Gunner, who will be going to the SO tommorow in Bakersfield to get his
28th renewal. Having shot the course the weekend before last. High
score as usual...shrug.



Mine's good for 5 years, scored 99 written and one ragged hole on the
shooting! The one question I missed was about sight alignment and had two
typos in it. And, I just didn't understand what they wanted, I skipped it
with the intention of coming back then forgot to.

4 yrs ago, California went from Yearly to bi-yearly. The counties that
issue..shrug.

Now Ive only got to go every two years to the range. Good shooting btw!

Our targets are 1/2 sized modified B70s, with no scoring rings. Center
of Mass targets. Just faint color Zones.

They are easy if you have shot a little bit. I hung around for the New
applicants class and helped a couple people qualify. One gal, if she
keeps shooting, is going to be a GREAT shooter and I told her that.

Her first round was about 14"...the staff couldnt figure out what she
was doing wrong..I watched, made a couple suggestions and she was
plinking em in a 5" circle and under, the next round. She was laughing
and having a grand time, really enjoying it once we figured out what she
was doing wrong. Never shot a handgun before in her life..late 40s.

California has the reguirement that only three (at most) listed weapons
can be carried ..only space for 3 weapons and serial numbers on the
CCW...so I shot a .41 Mag and a .45 on the range but listed the same 3
weapons Ive had listed for years. Turned a few heads when I fired the
41 during the course and they looked at the group. 3.4" for 50 rds.

Sigh...I was so low on loaded ammo, I wound up shooting factory ammo
that Id dug out of the stockroom. A bit warm...shrug. Felt damned good
though. Id not shot since at least November of last year. Been afraid
to,, what with the triple bypass, the stroke etc. First two rounds were
almost outside center of mass..then the brain kicked in and the rest
went where they were supposed to go. On the rapid fire strings I felt
slow...real slow. But I guess I was still faster than anyone else by a
significant margin....based on the odd looks from the instructors and
other shooters. IDPA and Steel Challenge tends to make you shoot a bit
faster than most folks. Shrug. I was afraid Id lost my muscle memory.
Thank Crom I hadnt...though Im slower than I was.

Gunner



Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Good shooting btw!

Our targets are 1/2 sized modified B70s, with no scoring rings. Center
of Mass targets. Just faint color Zones.


We used them also but without any color. I used my Ruger MARK IV Government
..22, the hard part is where do you put the first shot? I did have three an
inch or so high and left that I had to shoot left handed and there's the
thumb rest in the left grip and I'm missing the first joint on my left index
finger from a broken band saw 20 years ago.

On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:44:25 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:47:43 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I was afraid Id lost my muscle memory.
Thank Crom I hadnt...though Im slower than I was.

Gunner

Hold that thought and heed the lesson: you are slower than you once
were. The successful warrior knows his strengths and limitations as
well as he does those of his enemy or potential enemies. Things change
as life lurches on.

oh hell yes. Thats one of the things in life I keep aware of.. my
abilitys to stay alive. Im nowhere as fast as I used to be,
but..shrug..some of its coming back. That stroke did some strange stuff
to my memory and to my motor skills. While Im faster than 99.99% of the
folks on the street,..there has been some motor skills either lost, or
simply out of practice. I was working with a katana this evening and my
kata was rough as hell. I picked up my banjo a couple weeks ago..and
couldnt remember half my music. Had to follow the book for a bit and
then it started coming back. I must have put a few roadblocks in my
skull..most are easy to drive around fortunately. So far Ive not found
anything I cant do that I did before..but Im off by about 25% in speed.

All I can do is work at them and see if they will come back.

II think, because work is slow..sigh..Im going to work up a schedule for
kata and start some regular range time. Because the doctor told me
that I shouldnt really be shooting any heavy caliber rifles for 8-10
months, Ive not been shooting. But that time is about up so its about
time to take out the 1000 yrd guns again.

Gunner

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 03:50:40 -0400, "Buerste" wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
Good shooting btw!

Our targets are 1/2 sized modified B70s, with no scoring rings. Center
of Mass targets. Just faint color Zones.


We used them also but without any color. I used my Ruger MARK IV Government
.22, the hard part is where do you put the first shot? I did have three an
inch or so high and left that I had to shoot left handed and there's the
thumb rest in the left grip and I'm missing the first joint on my left index
finger from a broken band saw 20 years ago.

You qualified with a freaking .22? Is that what you are going to be
carrying on the street?

Sigh...Im going to have to bitch slap you.

SLAPPPPP!!!!!

You should know better than that. You run what you carry!!!

If you want to shoot a target gun, go to a target match.

If you are going to shoot a bad guy, you had best be shooting with great
regularity the gun you shoot the sumbitch with.

If you shoot him with that 22..the chances are good he is going to take
all 10 hits, pull it away from you, beat your brains loose, stuff it up
your ass, then walk off and die 3 blocks away.

Damn dude!!

Isnt that thumbrest a bitch shooting lefthanded...chuckle

Gunner

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 03:50:40 -0400, "Buerste" wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..
Good shooting btw!

Our targets are 1/2 sized modified B70s, with no scoring rings. Center
of Mass targets. Just faint color Zones.


We used them also but without any color. I used my Ruger MARK IV
Government
.22, the hard part is where do you put the first shot? I did have three
an
inch or so high and left that I had to shoot left handed and there's the
thumb rest in the left grip and I'm missing the first joint on my left
index
finger from a broken band saw 20 years ago.

You qualified with a freaking .22? Is that what you are going to be
carrying on the street?

Sigh...Im going to have to bitch slap you.

SLAPPPPP!!!!!

You should know better than that. You run what you carry!!!

If you want to shoot a target gun, go to a target match.

If you are going to shoot a bad guy, you had best be shooting with great
regularity the gun you shoot the sumbitch with.

If you shoot him with that 22..the chances are good he is going to take
all 10 hits, pull it away from you, beat your brains loose, stuff it up
your ass, then walk off and die 3 blocks away.

Damn dude!!

Isnt that thumbrest a bitch shooting lefthanded...chuckle

Gunner


..22s are cheap...so am I. I don't have a carry piece, every pistol I have
is huge. I guess I need a new one. I've been waiting for Roger to die so I
can have his Detonics

On Sep 1, 2:59*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:44:25 -0500, Don Foreman

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:47:43 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I was afraid Id lost my muscle memory.
Thank Crom I hadnt...though Im slower than I was.

Gunner

Hold that thought and heed the lesson: *you are slower than you once
were. *The successful warrior knows his strengths and limitations as
well as he does those of his enemy or potential enemies. Things change
as life lurches on.

oh hell yes. Thats one of the things in life I keep aware of.. my
abilitys to stay alive. Im nowhere as fast as I used to be,
but..shrug..some of its coming back. That stroke did some strange stuff
to my memory and to my motor skills. While Im faster than 99.99% of the
folks on the street,..there has been some motor skills either lost, or
simply out of practice. I was working with a katana this evening and my
kata was rough as hell. I picked up my banjo a couple weeks ago..and
couldnt remember half my music. Had to follow the book for *a bit and
then it started coming back. I must have put a few roadblocks in my
skull..most are easy to drive around fortunately. *So far Ive not found
anything I cant do that I did before..but Im off by about 25% in speed.

All I can do is work at them and see if they will come back.

II think, because work is slow..sigh..Im going to work up a schedule for
kata and start some regular range time. * Because the doctor told me
that I shouldnt really be shooting any heavy caliber rifles for 8-10
months, Ive not been shooting. But that time is about up so its about
time to take out the 1000 yrd guns again.

Gunner

*Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
*wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
*something damned nasty to all three of them.

I agree...you used to be a liberal.

Then all the brain cells died.

TMT

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 06:51:09 -0400, "Buerste" wrote:

finger from a broken band saw 20 years ago.

You qualified with a freaking .22? Is that what you are going to be
carrying on the street?

Sigh...Im going to have to bitch slap you.

SLAPPPPP!!!!!

You should know better than that. You run what you carry!!!

If you want to shoot a target gun, go to a target match.

If you are going to shoot a bad guy, you had best be shooting with great
regularity the gun you shoot the sumbitch with.

If you shoot him with that 22..the chances are good he is going to take
all 10 hits, pull it away from you, beat your brains loose, stuff it up
your ass, then walk off and die 3 blocks away.

Damn dude!!

Isnt that thumbrest a bitch shooting lefthanded...chuckle

Gunner


.22s are cheap...so am I. I don't have a carry piece, every pistol I have
is huge. I guess I need a new one. I've been waiting for Roger to die so I
can have his Detonics


Huge? Define "huge"

THis is the one I usually have tucked away on my person....

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138867776

It WILL need some TLC out of the box. 99.9% of them were flakey as
shipped, but cleaned and tuned up very very nicely. Maybe 45 minutes
work when not familiar with it. Double action only, and very adequate
out to 20 yrds or more. They are smaller than a PPK..so tuck away
nicely. No sharp edges either.

They do kick. Sharp and savagely Im told. Shrug..Ive shot mine for years
and dont even notice. 5 in the mag, one in the chamber. I can at 7 yrds
(2 weeks ago) put all 6 in the skull of a 1/2 sized b-70 in 1.9 seconds.
So they are very controllable.

Another good choice would be a good used Colt Detective Special, with a
load of P+ 125gr JHPs. (Gold Dots)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138927936

A very fine weapon and one Ive carried for years.

Both are small enough with enough payload to convice the bad guy that he
****ed up.

Ask yourself if you want a wheel gun or a self loader..then drop me an
email and Id be happy to work you up a list and sources.

Gunner



"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with
minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing
clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do---
his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him.
The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies.
He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 06:51:09 -0400, "Buerste" wrote:

finger from a broken band saw 20 years ago.

You qualified with a freaking .22? Is that what you are going to be
carrying on the street?

Sigh...Im going to have to bitch slap you.

SLAPPPPP!!!!!

You should know better than that. You run what you carry!!!

If you want to shoot a target gun, go to a target match.

If you are going to shoot a bad guy, you had best be shooting with great
regularity the gun you shoot the sumbitch with.

If you shoot him with that 22..the chances are good he is going to take
all 10 hits, pull it away from you, beat your brains loose, stuff it up
your ass, then walk off and die 3 blocks away.

Damn dude!!

Isnt that thumbrest a bitch shooting lefthanded...chuckle

Gunner


.22s are cheap...so am I. I don't have a carry piece, every pistol I have
is huge. I guess I need a new one. I've been waiting for Roger to die so
I
can have his Detonics


Huge? Define "huge"

THis is the one I usually have tucked away on my person....

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138867776

It WILL need some TLC out of the box. 99.9% of them were flakey as
shipped, but cleaned and tuned up very very nicely. Maybe 45 minutes
work when not familiar with it. Double action only, and very adequate
out to 20 yrds or more. They are smaller than a PPK..so tuck away
nicely. No sharp edges either.

They do kick. Sharp and savagely Im told. Shrug..Ive shot mine for years
and dont even notice. 5 in the mag, one in the chamber. I can at 7 yrds
(2 weeks ago) put all 6 in the skull of a 1/2 sized b-70 in 1.9 seconds.
So they are very controllable.

Another good choice would be a good used Colt Detective Special, with a
load of P+ 125gr JHPs. (Gold Dots)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138927936

A very fine weapon and one Ive carried for years.

Both are small enough with enough payload to convice the bad guy that he
****ed up.

Ask yourself if you want a wheel gun or a self loader..then drop me an
email and Id be happy to work you up a list and sources.

Gunner



The smallest pistol I have is my XD-9 Tactical. For carry, I'd want
something like a S&W Airweight hammerless .38, something that I won't need a
gun bearer, or I wont habitually have it with me.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138722602
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138841978

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 00:25:02 -0400, "Buerste" wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 06:51:09 -0400, "Buerste" wrote:

finger from a broken band saw 20 years ago.

You qualified with a freaking .22? Is that what you are going to be
carrying on the street?

Sigh...Im going to have to bitch slap you.

SLAPPPPP!!!!!

You should know better than that. You run what you carry!!!

If you want to shoot a target gun, go to a target match.

If you are going to shoot a bad guy, you had best be shooting with great
regularity the gun you shoot the sumbitch with.

If you shoot him with that 22..the chances are good he is going to take
all 10 hits, pull it away from you, beat your brains loose, stuff it up
your ass, then walk off and die 3 blocks away.

Damn dude!!

Isnt that thumbrest a bitch shooting lefthanded...chuckle

Gunner


.22s are cheap...so am I. I don't have a carry piece, every pistol I have
is huge. I guess I need a new one. I've been waiting for Roger to die so
I
can have his Detonics


Huge? Define "huge"

THis is the one I usually have tucked away on my person....

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138867776

It WILL need some TLC out of the box. 99.9% of them were flakey as
shipped, but cleaned and tuned up very very nicely. Maybe 45 minutes
work when not familiar with it. Double action only, and very adequate
out to 20 yrds or more. They are smaller than a PPK..so tuck away
nicely. No sharp edges either.

They do kick. Sharp and savagely Im told. Shrug..Ive shot mine for years
and dont even notice. 5 in the mag, one in the chamber. I can at 7 yrds
(2 weeks ago) put all 6 in the skull of a 1/2 sized b-70 in 1.9 seconds.
So they are very controllable.

Another good choice would be a good used Colt Detective Special, with a
load of P+ 125gr JHPs. (Gold Dots)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138927936

A very fine weapon and one Ive carried for years.

Both are small enough with enough payload to convice the bad guy that he
****ed up.

Ask yourself if you want a wheel gun or a self loader..then drop me an
email and Id be happy to work you up a list and sources.

Gunner



The smallest pistol I have is my XD-9 Tactical. For carry, I'd want
something like a S&W Airweight hammerless .38, something that I won't need a
gun bearer, or I wont habitually have it with me.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138722602
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138841978



Looks like a winner. Good inside the waistband holster or Thunderwear
and you are golden. You do have a waist..right? If not...or if you
wear tight shirts..an ankle holster is fairly convienent. Slow
yes...but after a week or two, you will not notice it.

Why not wear the XD? Good holster and wear your shirts out. Or
Thunderwear. Tucks in nicely. I can carry a full sized 1911 and Im
almost skinny.
http://www.thunderwear.com/holsters.asp

Hawiian shirts...shrug or even a xx large tshirt. (I normally wear
x-large)

Ive never laid eyes on you..so dont know your build.

I like the Colt Detective Special, as it will digest a Moderate diet of
Plus P ammo. Im not sure about the Smith.

and buy a couple speed loaders...HK are fine. Put em in your pocket or
tuck em behind your belt..3 over one side, 3 out the other.

Im curious though..you would actually Forget to wear your weapon????

I didnt carry for 4 months after the surgery and stroke, because I was
concerned about my shooting ability. Least..I didnt carry On me. And I
was uncomfortable the entire time. Every morning when I dressed I
reached for my weapon...and grimaced when I remembered I wasnt up to
carrying.. After 30 yrs of daily carry....it was part of my morning
ritual. Feels good again now to be carrying.

Gunner


"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with
minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing
clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do---
his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him.
The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies.
He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 00:25:02 -0400, "Buerste" wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 06:51:09 -0400, "Buerste" wrote:

finger from a broken band saw 20 years ago.

You qualified with a freaking .22? Is that what you are going to be
carrying on the street?

Sigh...Im going to have to bitch slap you.

SLAPPPPP!!!!!

You should know better than that. You run what you carry!!!

If you want to shoot a target gun, go to a target match.

If you are going to shoot a bad guy, you had best be shooting with great
regularity the gun you shoot the sumbitch with.

If you shoot him with that 22..the chances are good he is going to take
all 10 hits, pull it away from you, beat your brains loose, stuff it up
your ass, then walk off and die 3 blocks away.

Damn dude!!

Isnt that thumbrest a bitch shooting lefthanded...chuckle

Gunner


.22s are cheap...so am I. I don't have a carry piece, every pistol I have
is huge. I guess I need a new one. I've been waiting for Roger to die so
I
can have his Detonics


Huge? Define "huge"

THis is the one I usually have tucked away on my person....

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138867776

It WILL need some TLC out of the box. 99.9% of them were flakey as
shipped, but cleaned and tuned up very very nicely. Maybe 45 minutes
work when not familiar with it. Double action only, and very adequate
out to 20 yrds or more. They are smaller than a PPK..so tuck away
nicely. No sharp edges either.

They do kick. Sharp and savagely Im told. Shrug..Ive shot mine for years
and dont even notice. 5 in the mag, one in the chamber. I can at 7 yrds
(2 weeks ago) put all 6 in the skull of a 1/2 sized b-70 in 1.9 seconds.
So they are very controllable.

Another good choice would be a good used Colt Detective Special, with a
load of P+ 125gr JHPs. (Gold Dots)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138927936

A very fine weapon and one Ive carried for years.

Both are small enough with enough payload to convice the bad guy that he
****ed up.

Ask yourself if you want a wheel gun or a self loader..then drop me an
email and Id be happy to work you up a list and sources.

Gunner



The smallest pistol I have is my XD-9 Tactical. For carry, I'd want
something like a S&W Airweight hammerless .38, something that I won't need a
gun bearer, or I wont habitually have it with me.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138722602
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138841978



Oh..I forgot to mention...you may...may wish to check out one of these.

http://www.thunderwear.com/crimson.asp

They work very well, my 75 yr old pappy has several on his CCW rigs and
they do the job.

I tend to stay away from things that need batteries..but my headboard
..45 has one..a very early model and it works fine. Ive shot it
extensively on the range at night.


Gunner

"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with
minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing
clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do---
his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him.
The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies.
He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 00:25:02 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 06:51:09 -0400, "Buerste" wrote:

finger from a broken band saw 20 years ago.

You qualified with a freaking .22? Is that what you are going to be
carrying on the street?

Sigh...Im going to have to bitch slap you.

SLAPPPPP!!!!!

You should know better than that. You run what you carry!!!

If you want to shoot a target gun, go to a target match.

If you are going to shoot a bad guy, you had best be shooting with great
regularity the gun you shoot the sumbitch with.

If you shoot him with that 22..the chances are good he is going to take
all 10 hits, pull it away from you, beat your brains loose, stuff it up
your ass, then walk off and die 3 blocks away.

Damn dude!!

Isnt that thumbrest a bitch shooting lefthanded...chuckle

Gunner


.22s are cheap...so am I. I don't have a carry piece, every pistol I have
is huge. I guess I need a new one. I've been waiting for Roger to die so
I
can have his Detonics


Huge? Define "huge"

THis is the one I usually have tucked away on my person....

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138867776

It WILL need some TLC out of the box. 99.9% of them were flakey as
shipped, but cleaned and tuned up very very nicely. Maybe 45 minutes
work when not familiar with it. Double action only, and very adequate
out to 20 yrds or more. They are smaller than a PPK..so tuck away
nicely. No sharp edges either.

They do kick. Sharp and savagely Im told. Shrug..Ive shot mine for years
and dont even notice. 5 in the mag, one in the chamber. I can at 7 yrds
(2 weeks ago) put all 6 in the skull of a 1/2 sized b-70 in 1.9 seconds.
So they are very controllable.

Another good choice would be a good used Colt Detective Special, with a
load of P+ 125gr JHPs. (Gold Dots)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138927936

A very fine weapon and one Ive carried for years.

Both are small enough with enough payload to convice the bad guy that he
****ed up.

Ask yourself if you want a wheel gun or a self loader..then drop me an
email and Id be happy to work you up a list and sources.

Gunner



The smallest pistol I have is my XD-9 Tactical. For carry, I'd want
something like a S&W Airweight hammerless .38, something that I won't need a
gun bearer, or I wont habitually have it with me.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138722602
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138841978

I encourage you to rent or borrow an airweight to try before you buy.
You might have no problem at all with it but some find them quite
uncomfortable to shoot. Not that discomfort matters in an SD sit, but
proficiency requires periodic practice and practice won't happen with
a piece that hurts to shoot. Tolerance of recoil and ability to manage
it seems to vary a lot from person to person, and this isn't tightly
coupled to either gender or physical size. It is what it is. Gunner
can manage a pocket .45 with no discomfort and acceptable claimed
accuracy. Perhaps you could too. My point is merely that you must
discover what works for you.

My casual pocket carry is the microscopic Ruger LCP, very similar to
the KelTec 3AT. Both are .380ACP. Gunner scoffs .380ACP as a wimpy
round which it certainly is compared to some others, but shot
placement counts considerably more than caliber and SD is a
close-range matter by definition of civilian rules of engagement. Your
safety depends upon what works for you nevermind what works for
Gunner, me or anyone else.

My "serious" carry, for when I ever might want a serious carry as in
expecting trouble, is a Para Ordnance Carry 9 I found used in tits
condx. It's heavier than an airweight wheelgun but it's a
singlestacker so it's thin and easy to pack. It's enjoyable to shoot
and amazingly accurate. I enjoyed shooting it today. Not cheap, but
that shouldn't be an issue for you.

Pay no attention to those who preach caliber as in bigger is better, a
real man carries a real gun and such swaggerwide macho foolishness.
Shot placement counts considerably more than caliber. The best
caliber for you is the largest caliber you can shoot well and will
have at hand when you need it.

I'm comfortable and competent with .357Mag, .45ACP and .40S&W in
suitably-sized pieces but my carry choices are the very pocketable
Ruger LCP in .380 and the ParaOrdnance Carry9 in 9mmp. YMMV.

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 01:28:43 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 00:25:02 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 06:51:09 -0400, "Buerste" wrote:

finger from a broken band saw 20 years ago.

You qualified with a freaking .22? Is that what you are going to be
carrying on the street?

Sigh...Im going to have to bitch slap you.

SLAPPPPP!!!!!

You should know better than that. You run what you carry!!!

If you want to shoot a target gun, go to a target match.

If you are going to shoot a bad guy, you had best be shooting with great
regularity the gun you shoot the sumbitch with.

If you shoot him with that 22..the chances are good he is going to take
all 10 hits, pull it away from you, beat your brains loose, stuff it up
your ass, then walk off and die 3 blocks away.

Damn dude!!

Isnt that thumbrest a bitch shooting lefthanded...chuckle

Gunner


.22s are cheap...so am I. I don't have a carry piece, every pistol I have
is huge. I guess I need a new one. I've been waiting for Roger to die so
I
can have his Detonics


Huge? Define "huge"

THis is the one I usually have tucked away on my person....

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138867776

It WILL need some TLC out of the box. 99.9% of them were flakey as
shipped, but cleaned and tuned up very very nicely. Maybe 45 minutes
work when not familiar with it. Double action only, and very adequate
out to 20 yrds or more. They are smaller than a PPK..so tuck away
nicely. No sharp edges either.

They do kick. Sharp and savagely Im told. Shrug..Ive shot mine for years
and dont even notice. 5 in the mag, one in the chamber. I can at 7 yrds
(2 weeks ago) put all 6 in the skull of a 1/2 sized b-70 in 1.9 seconds.
So they are very controllable.

Another good choice would be a good used Colt Detective Special, with a
load of P+ 125gr JHPs. (Gold Dots)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138927936

A very fine weapon and one Ive carried for years.

Both are small enough with enough payload to convice the bad guy that he
****ed up.

Ask yourself if you want a wheel gun or a self loader..then drop me an
email and Id be happy to work you up a list and sources.

Gunner



The smallest pistol I have is my XD-9 Tactical. For carry, I'd want
something like a S&W Airweight hammerless .38, something that I won't need a
gun bearer, or I wont habitually have it with me.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138722602
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138841978

I encourage you to rent or borrow an airweight to try before you buy.
You might have no problem at all with it but some find them quite
uncomfortable to shoot. Not that discomfort matters in an SD sit, but
proficiency requires periodic practice and practice won't happen with
a piece that hurts to shoot. Tolerance of recoil and ability to manage
it seems to vary a lot from person to person, and this isn't tightly
coupled to either gender or physical size. It is what it is. Gunner
can manage a pocket .45 with no discomfort and acceptable claimed
accuracy. Perhaps you could too. My point is merely that you must
discover what works for you.

My casual pocket carry is the microscopic Ruger LCP, very similar to
the KelTec 3AT. Both are .380ACP. Gunner scoffs .380ACP as a wimpy
round which it certainly is compared to some others, but shot
placement counts considerably more than caliber and SD is a
close-range matter by definition of civilian rules of engagement. Your
safety depends upon what works for you nevermind what works for
Gunner, me or anyone else.

My "serious" carry, for when I ever might want a serious carry as in
expecting trouble, is a Para Ordnance Carry 9 I found used in tits
condx. It's heavier than an airweight wheelgun but it's a
singlestacker so it's thin and easy to pack. It's enjoyable to shoot
and amazingly accurate. I enjoyed shooting it today. Not cheap, but
that shouldn't be an issue for you.

Pay no attention to those who preach caliber as in bigger is better, a
real man carries a real gun and such swaggerwide macho foolishness.
Shot placement counts considerably more than caliber. The best
caliber for you is the largest caliber you can shoot well and will
have at hand when you need it.

I'm comfortable and competent with .357Mag, .45ACP and .40S&W in
suitably-sized pieces but my carry choices are the very pocketable
Ruger LCP in .380 and the ParaOrdnance Carry9 in 9mmp. YMMV.


See if you can find a Star BM

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/C...Model%20BM.htm

They are my favorite 9mm of all times. Slightly smaller than a Colt
Commander, yet fill the hand well. And Ive got big hands.

It certainly is head and hands more effective than a .380, particularly
with a decent combat bullet like the Gold Dot, etc etc.

The weapon isnt made anymore but they have been going for around $200 at
the gun shows for years. I have several and often have one tucked away
in my gear when out camping etc etc for plinking, camp defense and
varmints. It feels like a full sized Govt model 45 in grip, yet is
light and handy.

Now about your comments about "caliber as in bigger is better, a
real man carries a real gun and such swaggerwide macho foolishness".

Ive seen far too many bad guys eat up an entire magazine of small ammo
like the .380, break/stab/beat/butcher the shooter and then walk off to
die some distance away. Even GOOD antipersonel ammo.

You forget I was a multiple tour combat vet, a deputy sherriff and
whatnot for most of my life. I shot people, Ive been shot, Ive been
around far too many gunfights to find any joy in them..and its the BIG
bullets that end them quickly. Hence my normal carry of .41/44/45
caliber arms. I dont want to have to shoot the bad guy to dollrags. I
want to shoot him once ..maybe twice and then scan for his buddies.
Im not even a big fan of 9mm Para. Ive seen far far too many people take
multiple hits and return fire. I dont want to get shot at, let alone
hit. I hurt even today from the rounds I couldnt duck over the years.
Not something I talk about much ..real life..but..shrug.

I consider a hot .38 special with a decent expanding slug to be the
minumum caliber for dealing with bad guys. Minimum. Effective stopping
power starts at .357 Mag with 125gr JHPs and go up from there..in MY
opinion..and backed by extensive testing, real life shootings etc etc

Others may claim the 9mm with a decent expanding 115gr JHP works. And
again in my experience..it does, with multiple shots to center of mass.

A security guard friend of mine..back in the early 90s, was shot 3
times, center of mass with a 9mm. He ran into a guy breaking into an oil
company building while on patrol..approached the gentleman..and the guy
simply shot him. Randy then beat the guy to death with his simple
nightstick. Crushed his skull, broke his shoulder(s) etc etc. He had
indeed been shot. And the rounds simply didnt stop him. He called into
dispatch, asked for the cops and medical aid and they all arrived about
15 minutes later. Randy was starting to get woosy and light headed from
blood loss. He was treated and released 9 days later. And the .380 is
not as good a stopper as the 9mm

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aast9mmv380a.htm

I can tell you story after story of such shootings. Thats why the cops
have all dropped the 9mm as a duty round. In the 70s, they got away
from the .357 Mag and went to the big mag 9mms. And they were getting
their **** blown away regularly. The 9mm was far far worse a stopper
than was a decent 357 with a 125gr JHP. But the Wonder 9 held more. Big
****ing deal. If you shot the guy 2-3 times with the Wonder 9..and he
didnt beat you to death with your own gun, you lived.

Years ago, I had something to do with the firearms publishing
business..as an author and co author. Handloader, Gun Tests etc etc.
And even then it was obvious that the 9mm Short/Kurtz/380 was a
cartridge of last resort. Far far too many meatbags were living through
being shot multiple times with them. They may be fun, they may be
comforting...but they dont stop the bad guys worth a ****. It will kill
them..but after they have beaten you to death.

Here is some info:

General Julian Hatcher, a noted forensic pathologist, in the early
1900’s developed a good formula to determine the theoretical stopping
power of a firearm cartridge. His formula has withstood the test of time
and validation from other studies and data related to stopping power.

You want a handgun cartridge that has a Hatcher value of over 50 for the
most effective stopping power. Values over 55 have diminishing returns
in that you don’t gain any significant increase in stopping power for
the extra recoil and control you must cope with. Handgun cartridges that
don’t make a value of at least 50, should not considered for
self-defense. If the rating of your handgun cartridge is under 30, it
only has about a 30% chance of producing a one shot stop. Hatcher
Ratings of 30 to 49 raise a one shot stop to approximately a 50% chance.
Ratings of 50 or higher produce a one shot stop about 90% of the time.

Handgun Cartridge Type ..................... Hatcher Rating

..45 ACP full metal jacket 230 grain .......... 49.1

..45 ACP jacketed hollow point 230 grain ...... 60.7

..44 Magnum full metal jacket 240 grain ....... 92.3

*.44 Magnum lead wad cutter 240 grain ......... 136.8

..44 Special full metal jacket 240 grain ...... 51.6

*.44 Special lead wad cutter 240 grain ............. 76.5

..41 Magnum full metal jacket 230 grain ............. 54

*.41 Magnum lead wad cutter 230 grain .............. 80

10 millimeter full metal jacket 180 grain .......... 50.3

10 millimeter jacketed hollow point 180 grain ..62.1

..40 S&W full metal jacket flat nose 180 grain ...... 53.4

..40 S&W jacketed hollow point 180 grain ....... 59.4

..38 Special full metal jacket 158 grain ...... 26.7

*.38 Special lead wad cutter 158 grain ............. 39.7

**.357 Magnum full metal jacket 158 grain ..... 32.7

**.357 Magnum lead wad cutter 158 grain ............ 48.5

..357 SIG full metal jacket 147 grain ................ 36.6

..357 SIG jacketed hollow point 147 grain ..... 45.2

9 millimeter full metal jacket 147 grain ............ 32.3

9 millimeter jacketed hollow point 147 grain ... 39.9

..380 Auto jacketed hollow point 95 grain ..... 18.3

..32 Auto jacketed hollow point 71 grain ...... 11.1

..25 Auto jacketed hollow point 50 grain ...... 3.7

..22 Long Rifle jacketed hollow point 40 grain ... 4.2

* Jacketed hollow points will have the same rating as wad cutter bullets
if the bullet hollow tip is greater than 1/2 of the caliber of the
bullet.

* .357 Magnum ratings are taken from a firearm with a 3 inch barrel.
Longer barrels will raise the rating of the round.



The BEST loading in the .380 is the 95gr Silver Tip/Gold DOT..and it in
real life..gets a 22.5.

And trust me...the bad guy seldom ever stands still and allows you to
pick your first, second and third shots. You shoot him where you can,
and hope the bullet gets to someplace important.

The .380 is a decent "Im never going to shoot anyone but I feel
comfortable carrying it" handgun. And frankly..thats all its really
good for.

Heads up.. when shooting the bad guy.. you want your 1st center of mass
shot to STOP the mother****er. You dont want to be ****ing around,
plinking his ass, because he may not go down, no matter how many times
you shoot him with a poodle shooter and then he may get ****ed off and
beats you to death with whatever is handy. Im aware of a guy who was
shot 6 times with a 9mm by a deputy and nearly killed the deputy with a
shovel. ****ed the deputy up so bad he was retired on full disability.
And the guy is still doing 25-life in prison. And the deputy has been in
a wheel chair for 11 yrs so far. Writes software. And drinks a lot.


Now the big question is...what is the minimum 1 stop cartridge? 9mm?
38? 357? .40? .44? .45?

The best 1 stop round is a load of #4 buck from a 12ga. Followed by a
12ga slug. Or a decent sized rifle bullet with a nice hollowpoint or
soft point.

I have several of them around the homestead.

But I'll be using a handgun of at LEAST .357 Mag while Im scooting my
ass to get a real 1 shot stopper.

I own a fair number of handguns.."several"...which is close to "a bunch"
and I dont consider anything under .357 Magnum with the excellent
Remington 125gr JHP to be suitible for self defense when your life or
the life of another is on the line NOW. I dont own a .40. Not yet. I
have one on the way as a "lifetime loaner". Ill give you a heads up on
its effectiveness, accuracy etc in 6 months..after Ive personally rung
it out on paper and critters and found out what it will do. Reports
say its a good un. Shrug

In the meantime....

I will always use .357, .41 Mag, .44 Special or .45 ACP to defend my
life and the life of others. Or a shotgun/rifle. Smaller calibers may
or may not stop the guy with the first round..usually a number of rounds
wont stop the bad guy ..... Shrug..and frankly..the longer Im
standing/laying/crouched/sitting/hunched over, shooting holes in
him..the longer he has to shoot me..and I dont like eating a bullet very
much at all. Been there, done that..have the pucker marks to prove it..
Far too many of them. I hate gambling with how many rounds I need to
bust the guy with before he is no longer a danger to me and mine.
Getting shot/stabbed/clubbed/bayoneted hurts like a sumbitch.
Really..trust me on this. It ****ing hurts. And it may kill you.

Are you guys aware that a single round from a .22 pistol is on average,
more deadly than a couple rounds from a .380? Its quite true.
That bullet bounces around inside the body cavity punching holes in
****ing near everything. Takes the guys in the ER hours to find em all.
Sometimes they have to go in a second time and look for the rotting
tissue where the **** has leaked, out a couple days later to patch up a
hole they didnt find the first time.

The only problem is..the guy may have walked into the ER an hour after
he took the hits. Not a lot of Stopping Power in a .22.

The .25 is even worse as a matter of fact. I knew a gal who was in deep
depression..her old man was an asshole, drunk womanizer etc etc. During
a party (where he left with a chicky) ..she went upstairs, got her Baby
Browning .25 and shot herself in the side of the head. She dropped like
a rock. No one heard the shot. As far as anyone can figure..it was
5-15 minutes later when she woke back up, went downstairs and danced for
at least an hour before suddenly falling over dead of cerebral
hemmorage. It took the coroner to find the bullet hole in her
skull.Thats why NOBODY with any sense uses .25s anymore. If you NEED to
shoot someone..you dont want them dancing on your body for an hour
before falling over dead.

There is NO such thing as an effective "comfortable" handgun. Period.
End program, full stop. None. The smaller you go, the more comfortable
they can be to carry. And when you finally need it..that small pretty
little comfortable pop gun may get you killed. Shrug..fact of life.
Anything under a .357 is a hope and a dream. Lets hope you get your
dream and not a nightmare.

Shrug..just a heads up


Gunner, getting ready to go down to LA.








"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with
minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing
clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do---
his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him.
The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies.
He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

Don Foreman wrote:

My casual pocket carry is the microscopic Ruger LCP, very similar to
the KelTec 3AT. Both are .380ACP. Gunner scoffs .380ACP as a wimpy
round which it certainly is compared to some others, *but shot
placement counts considerably more than caliber* and SD is a
close-range matter by definition of civilian rules of engagement. Your
safety depends upon what works for you nevermind what works for
Gunner, me or anyone else.



What Don said...

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 03:20:55 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:



My "serious" carry, for when I ever might want a serious carry as in
expecting trouble, is a Para Ordnance Carry 9 I found used in tits
condx. It's heavier than an airweight wheelgun but it's a
singlestacker so it's thin and easy to pack. It's enjoyable to shoot
and amazingly accurate. I enjoyed shooting it today. Not cheap, but
that shouldn't be an issue for you.

Pay no attention to those who preach caliber as in bigger is better, a
real man carries a real gun and such swaggerwide macho foolishness.
Shot placement counts considerably more than caliber. The best
caliber for you is the largest caliber you can shoot well and will
have at hand when you need it.

I'm comfortable and competent with .357Mag, .45ACP and .40S&W in
suitably-sized pieces but my carry choices are the very pocketable
Ruger LCP in .380 and the ParaOrdnance Carry9 in 9mmp. YMMV.


See if you can find a Star BM

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/C...Model%20BM.htm

They are my favorite 9mm of all times. Slightly smaller than a Colt
Commander, yet fill the hand well. And Ive got big hands.


The Para Ordnance Carry 9 is about identical in size and shape to the
Star BM, but it is double-action only. No safety to forget. Parts are
readily available and it's guaranteed for life anyway. More than
$200, though.

Now about your comments about "caliber as in bigger is better, a
real man carries a real gun and such swaggerwide macho foolishness".

Ive seen far too many bad guys eat up an entire magazine of small ammo
like the .380, break/stab/beat/butcher the shooter and then walk off to
die some distance away. Even GOOD antipersonel ammo.

You forget I was a multiple tour combat vet, a deputy sherriff and
whatnot for most of my life. I shot people, Ive been shot, Ive been
around far too many gunfights to find any joy in them..and its the BIG
bullets that end them quickly.

I didn't forget that, Gunner. I am neither a LE officer nor a soldier,
and I think that being an armed civilian is somewhat different in a
number of ways.

The zero-shot stop seems to be caliber-independent. I've seen
statistics, don't recall where, that something like 90% of civilian
armed confrontations result in zero shots being fired. Predators look
for easy prey. A citizen armed with anything at all does not look
like easy prey, potential predator backs off. Any carry therefore
improves one's ability to avoid trouble by about 10X. My intent and
desire is to avoid trouble if at all possible, not blast it to
smithereens if I have a plausible excuse to do so. There are
certainly dangerous places I do not go. If I had to go in such places
I would be packing a .40 or .45. But I don't have to, so I don't.

Am I willing to risk the 10% of remaining confrontive situations where
I'd have to shoot someone to save myself and might wish I had a .45 or
a rifle? I guess I am, YMMV. I haven't needed to shoot anyone for
several decades and I live more conservatively now than I may have in
younger years.

I do keep a substantial piece in the bedroom. Bulk and weight don't
matter and it's always there if I should need it. There's no way to
evade or avoid an invader in my bedroom and his very presence there
makes his malicious intent quite clear. The legal situation is also
very clear though it'd very probably still be a helluva mess and
significant expense.

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 03:20:55 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:


--minor snippage-- (400 lines?)

The best 1 stop round is a load of #4 buck from a 12ga. Followed by a
12ga slug. Or a decent sized rifle bullet with a nice hollowpoint or
soft point.

I have several of them around the homestead.

MUST you always understate things?


There is NO such thing as an effective "comfortable" handgun. Period.
End program, full stop. None. The smaller you go, the more comfortable
they can be to carry. And when you finally need it..that small pretty
little comfortable pop gun may get you killed. Shrug..fact of life.
Anything under a .357 is a hope and a dream. Lets hope you get your
dream and not a nightmare.

Shrug..just a heads up

While that may be true, merely carrying a weapon could save your life
from most perps. It's all a game of odds.


Gunner, getting ready to go down to LA.

Lock and load, then have a good time.

--
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority.
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to
be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 22:35:12 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 00:25:02 -0400, "Buerste" wrote:

Oh..I forgot to mention...you may...may wish to check out one of these.

http://www.thunderwear.com/crimson.asp

They work very well, my 75 yr old pappy has several on his CCW rigs and
they do the job.

I tend to stay away from things that need batteries..but my headboard
.45 has one..a very early model and it works fine. Ive shot it
extensively on the range at night.

I can see how they could be very handy, but Hayseuss Crisco!
$250 for a laser pointer in 3 bucks worth of rubber?
They're right proud of those things, aren't they?

--
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority.
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to
be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
snip
There is NO such thing as an effective "comfortable" handgun. Period.
End program, full stop. None. The smaller you go, the more comfortable
they can be to carry. And when you finally need it..that small pretty
little comfortable pop gun may get you killed. Shrug..fact of life.
Anything under a .357 is a hope and a dream. Lets hope you get your
dream and not a nightmare.

Shrug..just a heads up

Gunner, getting ready to go down to LA.


Good post! I agree and would pack a .38 at the least. I'm WAY partial to
wheel guns for simplicity. I would consider an auto loader if I were to get
trained to the point of excellence. However, I'd take a .22 over a rock. I
understand the amount of practice and muscle memory to become proficient,
most people don't.

Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 03:20:55 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


My "serious" carry, for when I ever might want a serious carry as in
expecting trouble, is a Para Ordnance Carry 9 I found used in tits
condx. It's heavier than an airweight wheelgun but it's a
singlestacker so it's thin and easy to pack. It's enjoyable to shoot
and amazingly accurate. I enjoyed shooting it today. Not cheap, but
that shouldn't be an issue for you.

Pay no attention to those who preach caliber as in bigger is better, a
real man carries a real gun and such swaggerwide macho foolishness.
Shot placement counts considerably more than caliber. The best
caliber for you is the largest caliber you can shoot well and will
have at hand when you need it.

I'm comfortable and competent with .357Mag, .45ACP and .40S&W in
suitably-sized pieces but my carry choices are the very pocketable
Ruger LCP in .380 and the ParaOrdnance Carry9 in 9mmp. YMMV.

See if you can find a Star BM

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/C...Model%20BM.htm

They are my favorite 9mm of all times. Slightly smaller than a Colt
Commander, yet fill the hand well. And Ive got big hands.


The Para Ordnance Carry 9 is about identical in size and shape to the
Star BM, but it is double-action only. No safety to forget. Parts are
readily available and it's guaranteed for life anyway. More than
$200, though.

Now about your comments about "caliber as in bigger is better, a
real man carries a real gun and such swaggerwide macho foolishness".

Ive seen far too many bad guys eat up an entire magazine of small ammo
like the .380, break/stab/beat/butcher the shooter and then walk off to
die some distance away. Even GOOD antipersonel ammo.

You forget I was a multiple tour combat vet, a deputy sherriff and
whatnot for most of my life. I shot people, Ive been shot, Ive been
around far too many gunfights to find any joy in them..and its the BIG
bullets that end them quickly.

I didn't forget that, Gunner. I am neither a LE officer nor a soldier,
and I think that being an armed civilian is somewhat different in a
number of ways.

The zero-shot stop seems to be caliber-independent. I've seen
statistics, don't recall where, that something like 90% of civilian
armed confrontations result in zero shots being fired. Predators look
for easy prey. A citizen armed with anything at all does not look
like easy prey, potential predator backs off. Any carry therefore
improves one's ability to avoid trouble by about 10X. My intent and
desire is to avoid trouble if at all possible, not blast it to
smithereens if I have a plausible excuse to do so. There are
certainly dangerous places I do not go. If I had to go in such places
I would be packing a .40 or .45. But I don't have to, so I don't.

Am I willing to risk the 10% of remaining confrontive situations where
I'd have to shoot someone to save myself and might wish I had a .45 or
a rifle? I guess I am, YMMV. I haven't needed to shoot anyone for
several decades and I live more conservatively now than I may have in
younger years.

I do keep a substantial piece in the bedroom. Bulk and weight don't
matter and it's always there if I should need it. There's no way to
evade or avoid an invader in my bedroom and his very presence there
makes his malicious intent quite clear. The legal situation is also
very clear though it'd very probably still be a helluva mess and
significant expense.

Don, I've made the same choices as you, for the same reasons.
I carry one of several .380s daily.
In each vehicle I keep a bigger, but still concealable gun of a bigger
caliber (Astra A75L, Keltec P11, and Star BM or PD) in a lockbox cabled
to the vehicle.
And at home, a hicap 9mm DA is close at hand.

Buerste wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
snip
There is NO such thing as an effective "comfortable" handgun. Period.
End program, full stop. None. The smaller you go, the more comfortable
they can be to carry. And when you finally need it..that small pretty
little comfortable pop gun may get you killed. Shrug..fact of life.
Anything under a .357 is a hope and a dream. Lets hope you get your
dream and not a nightmare.

Shrug..just a heads up

Gunner, getting ready to go down to LA.


Good post! I agree and would pack a .38 at the least. I'm WAY partial to
wheel guns for simplicity. I would consider an auto loader if I were to get
trained to the point of excellence. However, I'd take a .22 over a rock. I
understand the amount of practice and muscle memory to become proficient,
most people don't.

I dunno, I've had revolvers jam. All it takes is something hanging up
the cylinder, in front or behind. I had a S&W M10 that would lock
halfway through the DA trigger pull. I replaced several parts until it
quit that. I've had a couple of 1911s like that also, never did figure
one of them out.
OTOH, a Glock, like them or not, work every time (in my experience)

RBnDFW wrote:

Buerste wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
snip
There is NO such thing as an effective "comfortable" handgun. Period.
End program, full stop. None. The smaller you go, the more comfortable
they can be to carry. And when you finally need it..that small pretty
little comfortable pop gun may get you killed. Shrug..fact of life.
Anything under a .357 is a hope and a dream. Lets hope you get your
dream and not a nightmare.

Shrug..just a heads up

Gunner, getting ready to go down to LA.


Good post! I agree and would pack a .38 at the least. I'm WAY partial to
wheel guns for simplicity. I would consider an auto loader if I were to get
trained to the point of excellence. However, I'd take a .22 over a rock. I
understand the amount of practice and muscle memory to become proficient,
most people don't.

I dunno, I've had revolvers jam. All it takes is something hanging up
the cylinder, in front or behind. I had a S&W M10 that would lock
halfway through the DA trigger pull. I replaced several parts until it
quit that. I've had a couple of 1911s like that also, never did figure
one of them out.
OTOH, a Glock, like them or not, work every time (in my experience)

My S&W 5906 has been flawless with many many rounds through it. The last
Glock I tried I was shooting a mix of generic FMJ and FMJ tracers and
the Glock stovepipe jammed on every tracer, as well as bouncing the
other shells off my forehead. I was also shooting the 5906 with the same
mix and as usual it was flawless.

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:12:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


There is NO such thing as an effective "comfortable" handgun. Period.
End program, full stop. None. The smaller you go, the more comfortable
they can be to carry. And when you finally need it..that small pretty
little comfortable pop gun may get you killed. Shrug..fact of life.
Anything under a .357 is a hope and a dream. Lets hope you get your
dream and not a nightmare.

Shrug..just a heads up

While that may be true, merely carrying a weapon could save your life
from most perps. It's all a game of odds.


Then buy an Airsoft copy of whatever you like for $29.95 and carry it.
Along with an empty or 2/3rd empty fire extinguisher.. a fake smoke
detector and a spare tire thats flat.

They may all come into use someday. Will you be satisfied with how well
they work?

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:13:31 -0400, "Buerste" wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
snip
There is NO such thing as an effective "comfortable" handgun. Period.
End program, full stop. None. The smaller you go, the more comfortable
they can be to carry. And when you finally need it..that small pretty
little comfortable pop gun may get you killed. Shrug..fact of life.
Anything under a .357 is a hope and a dream. Lets hope you get your
dream and not a nightmare.

Shrug..just a heads up

Gunner, getting ready to go down to LA.


Good post! I agree and would pack a .38 at the least. I'm WAY partial to
wheel guns for simplicity. I would consider an auto loader if I were to get
trained to the point of excellence. However, I'd take a .22 over a rock. I
understand the amount of practice and muscle memory to become proficient,
most people don't.

Frankly..Id take a pocket full of bigish rocks over a 22. But
then..thats just me....



"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 09:34:48 -0500, RBnDFW wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 03:20:55 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


My "serious" carry, for when I ever might want a serious carry as in
expecting trouble, is a Para Ordnance Carry 9 I found used in tits
condx. It's heavier than an airweight wheelgun but it's a
singlestacker so it's thin and easy to pack. It's enjoyable to shoot
and amazingly accurate. I enjoyed shooting it today. Not cheap, but
that shouldn't be an issue for you.

Pay no attention to those who preach caliber as in bigger is better, a
real man carries a real gun and such swaggerwide macho foolishness.
Shot placement counts considerably more than caliber. The best
caliber for you is the largest caliber you can shoot well and will
have at hand when you need it.

I'm comfortable and competent with .357Mag, .45ACP and .40S&W in
suitably-sized pieces but my carry choices are the very pocketable
Ruger LCP in .380 and the ParaOrdnance Carry9 in 9mmp. YMMV.

See if you can find a Star BM

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/C...Model%20BM.htm

They are my favorite 9mm of all times. Slightly smaller than a Colt
Commander, yet fill the hand well. And Ive got big hands.


The Para Ordnance Carry 9 is about identical in size and shape to the
Star BM, but it is double-action only. No safety to forget. Parts are
readily available and it's guaranteed for life anyway. More than
$200, though.

Now about your comments about "caliber as in bigger is better, a
real man carries a real gun and such swaggerwide macho foolishness".

Ive seen far too many bad guys eat up an entire magazine of small ammo
like the .380, break/stab/beat/butcher the shooter and then walk off to
die some distance away. Even GOOD antipersonel ammo.

You forget I was a multiple tour combat vet, a deputy sherriff and
whatnot for most of my life. I shot people, Ive been shot, Ive been
around far too many gunfights to find any joy in them..and its the BIG
bullets that end them quickly.

I didn't forget that, Gunner. I am neither a LE officer nor a soldier,
and I think that being an armed civilian is somewhat different in a
number of ways.

The zero-shot stop seems to be caliber-independent. I've seen
statistics, don't recall where, that something like 90% of civilian
armed confrontations result in zero shots being fired. Predators look
for easy prey. A citizen armed with anything at all does not look
like easy prey, potential predator backs off. Any carry therefore
improves one's ability to avoid trouble by about 10X. My intent and
desire is to avoid trouble if at all possible, not blast it to
smithereens if I have a plausible excuse to do so. There are
certainly dangerous places I do not go. If I had to go in such places
I would be packing a .40 or .45. But I don't have to, so I don't.

Am I willing to risk the 10% of remaining confrontive situations where
I'd have to shoot someone to save myself and might wish I had a .45 or
a rifle? I guess I am, YMMV. I haven't needed to shoot anyone for
several decades and I live more conservatively now than I may have in
younger years.

I do keep a substantial piece in the bedroom. Bulk and weight don't
matter and it's always there if I should need it. There's no way to
evade or avoid an invader in my bedroom and his very presence there
makes his malicious intent quite clear. The legal situation is also
very clear though it'd very probably still be a helluva mess and
significant expense.

Don, I've made the same choices as you, for the same reasons.
I carry one of several .380s daily.
In each vehicle I keep a bigger, but still concealable gun of a bigger
caliber (Astra A75L, Keltec P11, and Star BM or PD) in a lockbox cabled
to the vehicle.
And at home, a hicap 9mm DA is close at hand.


Lets all hope you dont have to hot foot it to the vehicle, with a bad
guy on your ass.

Shrug

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 05:06:06 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:12:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


There is NO such thing as an effective "comfortable" handgun. Period.
End program, full stop. None. The smaller you go, the more comfortable
they can be to carry. And when you finally need it..that small pretty
little comfortable pop gun may get you killed. Shrug..fact of life.
Anything under a .357 is a hope and a dream. Lets hope you get your
dream and not a nightmare.

Shrug..just a heads up

While that may be true, merely carrying a weapon could save your life
from most perps. It's all a game of odds.


Then buy an Airsoft copy of whatever you like for $29.95 and carry it.

It would be lighter, wouldn't it? har


Along with an empty or 2/3rd empty fire extinguisher.. a fake smoke
detector and a spare tire thats flat.

They may all come into use someday. Will you be satisfied with how well
they work?

Umm, I like my odds better with the loaded 9mm, thankyouverymuch.

--
It's a great life...once you weaken.
--author James Hogan

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:12:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


There is NO such thing as an effective "comfortable" handgun. Period.
End program, full stop. None. The smaller you go, the more comfortable
they can be to carry. And when you finally need it..that small pretty
little comfortable pop gun may get you killed. Shrug..fact of life.
Anything under a .357 is a hope and a dream. Lets hope you get your
dream and not a nightmare.

Shrug..just a heads up

While that may be true, merely carrying a weapon could save your life
from most perps. It's all a game of odds.

Then buy an Airsoft copy of whatever you like for $29.95 and carry it.
Along with an empty or 2/3rd empty fire extinguisher.. a fake smoke
detector and a spare tire thats flat.

They may all come into use someday. Will you be satisfied with how well
they work?

Actually a fire extinguisher makes a very good improvised weapon. A
cloud of dry chemical to the face followed by the tank up side the head.

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 06:44:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 05:06:06 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:12:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


There is NO such thing as an effective "comfortable" handgun. Period.
End program, full stop. None. The smaller you go, the more comfortable
they can be to carry. And when you finally need it..that small pretty
little comfortable pop gun may get you killed. Shrug..fact of life.
Anything under a .357 is a hope and a dream. Lets hope you get your
dream and not a nightmare.

Shrug..just a heads up

While that may be true, merely carrying a weapon could save your life
from most perps. It's all a game of odds.


Then buy an Airsoft copy of whatever you like for $29.95 and carry it.

It would be lighter, wouldn't it? har


Along with an empty or 2/3rd empty fire extinguisher.. a fake smoke
detector and a spare tire thats flat.

They may all come into use someday. Will you be satisfied with how well
they work?

Umm, I like my odds better with the loaded 9mm, thankyouverymuch.


And Id bet on you and your 9mm. Not so much on others and their .380s.

Shrug

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 09:25:09 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:12:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


There is NO such thing as an effective "comfortable" handgun. Period.
End program, full stop. None. The smaller you go, the more comfortable
they can be to carry. And when you finally need it..that small pretty
little comfortable pop gun may get you killed. Shrug..fact of life.
Anything under a .357 is a hope and a dream. Lets hope you get your
dream and not a nightmare.

Shrug..just a heads up

While that may be true, merely carrying a weapon could save your life
from most perps. It's all a game of odds.

Then buy an Airsoft copy of whatever you like for $29.95 and carry it.
Along with an empty or 2/3rd empty fire extinguisher.. a fake smoke
detector and a spare tire thats flat.

They may all come into use someday. Will you be satisfied with how well
they work?

Actually a fire extinguisher makes a very good improvised weapon. A
cloud of dry chemical to the face followed by the tank up side the head.


Unless the bad guy has a .32..or even a .380.

Shrug

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost