We use a number of the small bench-top drill presses. Yes they're
cheap, but it seems like the ones that are 4 times more are just the
same models with more fancy colors, so I go with the cheap ones.
Lately I've noticed a number of them have started making a chattering
sound somewhere in the head. They still drill fine. Whatever it is
doesn't seem to affect anything, but it sounds like it will
eventually. I just thought I'd throw it out there and see if anybody
has noticed a certain part that starts going, just to save myself the
trouble of taking them apart and figuring it out.

Second... I've always had difficulty drilling through thin metals...
Anything less than 1/8" aluminum... say 1/16" aluminum mainly. The
problem seems to be that the point runs out the other side and doesn't
guide the bit enough, which leads to a less than round hole. On flat
stock I can put scrap behind it, but that won't work with tube. I've
tried numerous bits, but I noticed these on Mc Master's

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8769a27/=3bmsl6

Just wondering if anybody has used something like that for that
purpose and what they think.

Thanks for any help,

Dave

"Dave D" wrote in message
...
We use a number of the small bench-top drill presses. Yes they're
cheap, but it seems like the ones that are 4 times more are just the
same models with more fancy colors, so I go with the cheap ones.
Lately I've noticed a number of them have started making a chattering
sound somewhere in the head. They still drill fine. Whatever it is
doesn't seem to affect anything, but it sounds like it will
eventually. I just thought I'd throw it out there and see if anybody
has noticed a certain part that starts going, just to save myself the
trouble of taking them apart and figuring it out.

Second... I've always had difficulty drilling through thin metals...
Anything less than 1/8" aluminum... say 1/16" aluminum mainly. The
problem seems to be that the point runs out the other side and doesn't
guide the bit enough, which leads to a less than round hole. On flat
stock I can put scrap behind it, but that won't work with tube. I've
tried numerous bits, but I noticed these on Mc Master's

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8769a27/=3bmsl6

Just wondering if anybody has used something like that for that
purpose and what they think.

Thanks for any help,

Dave

I too have a bunch of cheapies. I think we have replaced bearings in all of
them. And, the bearings don't always fit into a good bore and the shafts
aren't great fits either. I won't buy them anymore, there are too many used
good ones out there.

On Aug 24, 2:14*am, Dave D wrote:
We use a number of the small bench-top drill presses. Yes they're
cheap, but it seems like the ones that are 4 times more are just the
same models with more fancy colors, so I go with the cheap ones.
Lately I've noticed a number of them have started making a chattering
sound somewhere in the head. They still drill fine. Whatever it is
doesn't seem to affect anything, but it sounds like it will
eventually. I just thought I'd throw it out there and see if anybody
has noticed a certain part that starts going, just to save myself the
trouble of taking them apart and figuring it out.

Second... I've always had difficulty drilling through thin metals...
Anything less than 1/8" aluminum... say 1/16" aluminum mainly. The
problem seems to be that the point runs out the other side and doesn't
guide the bit enough, which leads to a less than round hole. On flat
stock I can put scrap behind it, but that won't work with tube. I've
tried numerous bits, but I noticed these on Mc Master's

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8769a27/=3bmsl6

Just wondering if anybody has used something like that for that
purpose and what they think.

Thanks for any help,

Dave

You might have better luck with single flute step-drill bits in sheet
metal. They are less likely to make oblong holes in thin stock.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#step-drills/=3br6fp

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:14:51 -0700 (PDT), Dave D
wrote:

We use a number of the small bench-top drill presses. Yes they're
cheap, but it seems like the ones that are 4 times more are just the
same models with more fancy colors, so I go with the cheap ones.
Lately I've noticed a number of them have started making a chattering
sound somewhere in the head. They still drill fine. Whatever it is
doesn't seem to affect anything, but it sounds like it will
eventually. I just thought I'd throw it out there and see if anybody
has noticed a certain part that starts going, just to save myself the
trouble of taking them apart and figuring it out.

Second... I've always had difficulty drilling through thin metals...
Anything less than 1/8" aluminum... say 1/16" aluminum mainly. The
problem seems to be that the point runs out the other side and doesn't
guide the bit enough, which leads to a less than round hole. On flat
stock I can put scrap behind it, but that won't work with tube. I've
tried numerous bits, but I noticed these on Mc Master's

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8769a27/=3bmsl6

Just wondering if anybody has used something like that for that
purpose and what they think.

Thanks for any help,

Dave

for sheet metal use a unibit, they will cut a round hole.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#unibit-drill-bits/=3brf6o

above is just one size, they make 2 or three others.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:14:51 -0700, Dave D wrote:

We use a number of the small bench-top drill presses. Yes they're cheap,
but it seems like the ones that are 4 times more are just the same
models with more fancy colors, so I go with the cheap ones. Lately I've
noticed a number of them have started making a chattering sound
somewhere in the head. They still drill fine. Whatever it is doesn't
seem to affect anything, but it sounds like it will eventually. I just
thought I'd throw it out there and see if anybody has noticed a certain
part that starts going, just to save myself the trouble of taking them
apart and figuring it out.

Second... I've always had difficulty drilling through thin metals...
Anything less than 1/8" aluminum... say 1/16" aluminum mainly. The
problem seems to be that the point runs out the other side and doesn't
guide the bit enough, which leads to a less than round hole. On flat
stock I can put scrap behind it, but that won't work with tube. I've
tried numerous bits, but I noticed these on Mc Master's

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8769a27/=3bmsl6

Just wondering if anybody has used something like that for that purpose
and what they think.

Thanks for any help,

Dave

So find some _decent_ drill presses, and expect to pay at least 10x for
one instead of 4x -- but expect to never mess with it again.

Alternately, as 'Buerste' suggests, get an older good drill press,
rebuild it, and use it forever.

Getting a cheap Chinese tool is kind of like getting a comprehensively
clapped-out tool -- you can't rebuild it, because every part is just
_wrong_; by the time you got all the problems fixed you'd have a scratch-
built tool with the original power cord.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:46:38 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:14:51 -0700, Dave D wrote:

We use a number of the small bench-top drill presses. Yes they're cheap,
but it seems like the ones that are 4 times more are just the same
models with more fancy colors, so I go with the cheap ones. Lately I've
noticed a number of them have started making a chattering sound
somewhere in the head. They still drill fine. Whatever it is doesn't
seem to affect anything, but it sounds like it will eventually. I just
thought I'd throw it out there and see if anybody has noticed a certain
part that starts going, just to save myself the trouble of taking them
apart and figuring it out.

Second... I've always had difficulty drilling through thin metals...
Anything less than 1/8" aluminum... say 1/16" aluminum mainly. The
problem seems to be that the point runs out the other side and doesn't
guide the bit enough, which leads to a less than round hole. On flat
stock I can put scrap behind it, but that won't work with tube. I've
tried numerous bits, but I noticed these on Mc Master's

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8769a27/=3bmsl6

Just wondering if anybody has used something like that for that purpose
and what they think.

Thanks for any help,

Dave

So find some _decent_ drill presses, and expect to pay at least 10x for
one instead of 4x -- but expect to never mess with it again.

Alternately, as 'Buerste' suggests, get an older good drill press,
rebuild it, and use it forever.

Getting a cheap Chinese tool is kind of like getting a comprehensively
clapped-out tool -- you can't rebuild it, because every part is just
_wrong_; by the time you got all the problems fixed you'd have a scratch-
built tool with the original power cord.

I have one with a bad (intermitttent) power cord.

On Aug 24, 12:14*am, Dave D wrote:
We use a number of the small bench-top drill presses. Yes they're
cheap, but it seems like the ones that are 4 times more are just the
same models with more fancy colors, so I go with the cheap ones.
Lately I've noticed a number of them have started making a chattering
sound somewhere in the head. They still drill fine. Whatever it is
doesn't seem to affect anything, but it sounds like it will
eventually. I just thought I'd throw it out there and see if anybody
has noticed a certain part that starts going, just to save myself the
trouble of taking them apart and figuring it out.

Second... I've always had difficulty drilling through thin metals...
Anything less than 1/8" aluminum... say 1/16" aluminum mainly. The
problem seems to be that the point runs out the other side and doesn't
guide the bit enough, which leads to a less than round hole. On flat
stock I can put scrap behind it, but that won't work with tube. I've
tried numerous bits, but I noticed these on Mc Master's

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8769a27/=3bmsl6

Just wondering if anybody has used something like that for that
purpose and what they think.

Thanks for any help,

Dave

Have you tried the "bullet-point" drills? These were made for thin
stock, I have a set I use for just that. B&D I think is the one that
owns the trademark but there are other makers. If you haven't seen
them, they're like a two-step step drill, the small nib acts like a
spotter. No wandering. I've used them on 4140 thinwall tube, worked
fine. If you need accuracy, go with bushings and a drill jig.
Heinrich makes a number of different ones for drilling on the
centerlines of round stock, for a price. Strictly production-level
stuff. MSC has them.

Stan

Solid carbide drills are great for drilling hard to drill materials.

Just yesterday I used one to drill a bearing ball made from bearing
ball steel. Even with the carbide drill, it generated a tremendous
amount of heat. I drilled it with a 3/16" carbide drill, and then
enlarged the hole with a 3/8" carbide endmill. This is a stupid thing
to put a ball at the end of a formerly ugly key for a Jacobs 18N
chuck.

In any case, aluminum is not a hard to drill material, but I think
that what your application lacks is tool rigidity. Assuming that your
drill spindle has no runout, I would try very short drill bits that do
not flex much when coming out of the drilled hole. McMaster has plenty
of those.

Use of carbide drills in cheap drill presses is questionable, as they
do not like to flex much and can be broken by excessive runout or just
flexing of the drill press. If I were you, I would try short drill
bits first.

i

"Dave D" wrote in message
...

Second... I've always had difficulty drilling through thin metals...
Anything less than 1/8" aluminum... say 1/16" aluminum mainly. The
problem seems to be that the point runs out the other side and doesn't
guide the bit enough, which leads to a less than round hole. On flat
stock I can put scrap behind it, but that won't work with tube. I've
tried numerous bits, but I noticed these on Mc Master's

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8769a27/=3bmsl6

Just wondering if anybody has used something like that for that
purpose and what they think.

Thanks for any help,

Dave

For small diameter holes I like brad point bits for aluminum or soft copper.
For larger holes the uni-bit works well.

You might also get good results drilling close to size with a center drill
and then finish with an end mill.

You can also try punching the hole. the technique I would try would depend
on how many holes I needed, and how accurate I needed to be.

As to your inquiry about spade bits I find these to be virtually useless.

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

Dave D wrote:
We use a number of the small bench-top drill presses. Yes they're
cheap, but it seems like the ones that are 4 times more are just the
same models with more fancy colors, so I go with the cheap ones.
Lately I've noticed a number of them have started making a chattering
sound somewhere in the head. They still drill fine. Whatever it is
doesn't seem to affect anything, but it sounds like it will
eventually. I just thought I'd throw it out there and see if anybody
has noticed a certain part that starts going, just to save myself the
trouble of taking them apart and figuring it out.

Second... I've always had difficulty drilling through thin metals...
Anything less than 1/8" aluminum... say 1/16" aluminum mainly. The
problem seems to be that the point runs out the other side and doesn't
guide the bit enough, which leads to a less than round hole. On flat
stock I can put scrap behind it, but that won't work with tube. I've
tried numerous bits, but I noticed these on Mc Master's

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8769a27/=3bmsl6

Just wondering if anybody has used something like that for that
purpose and what they think.

Thanks for any help,

Dave

There's an old boy on ebay that has a lot of drill bits--he calls them
"Piloted" they have an undersized 3/8 to 1/2 start which gives you your
3 lobed hole in thin metal, but then the remainder is full size and
seems to ream the hole true round.

On 2009-08-24, Dave D wrote:
We use a number of the small bench-top drill presses. Yes they're
cheap, but it seems like the ones that are 4 times more are just the
same models with more fancy colors, so I go with the cheap ones.
Lately I've noticed a number of them have started making a chattering
sound somewhere in the head. They still drill fine. Whatever it is
doesn't seem to affect anything, but it sounds like it will
eventually. I just thought I'd throw it out there and see if anybody
has noticed a certain part that starts going, just to save myself the
trouble of taking them apart and figuring it out.

Hmm ... try squirting some lubricant into the spline in the
center of the spindle pulley. Probably something fairly thick, like
Vactra No. 2 waylube will do well.

Also -- try running it (carefully, of course) with the belt
guard open. Sometimes, especially if it is the three pulley kind and
depending on belt length, you can have the center pulley swing over to
where it is rubbing against the guard. If you have this -- either get a
belt one size shorter, or drill or punch new holes for the screws
holding it onto the top of the head casting so you can shift it so it
does not rub. The latter approach is what I took with my floor-standing
16-speed version.

Second... I've always had difficulty drilling through thin metals...
Anything less than 1/8" aluminum... say 1/16" aluminum mainly. The
problem seems to be that the point runs out the other side and doesn't
guide the bit enough, which leads to a less than round hole. On flat
stock I can put scrap behind it, but that won't work with tube. I've
tried numerous bits, but I noticed these on Mc Master's

http://www.mcmaster.com/#8769a27/=3bmsl6

Just wondering if anybody has used something like that for that
purpose and what they think.

I would try a Unibit, personally. How big are your holes? I
think that you can get some which start at 1/8" and then go up in steps
of 1/32" to 1/2". Others are larger, or go in larger steps. The larger
and fewer the steps, the thicker the metal they will drill to a specific
size. You even have an advantage on anything but the largest step that
you also can deburr the top side of the hole with the chamfer to the next
step.

If you are sticking with Mcmaster-Carr, then enter the following
into their search field:

================================================== ====================
Multidiameter Step Drill Bits
================================================== ====================

and you'll hit a page with a bunch of them at the bottom.

If you are drilling fairly small ID tubing, you may need to
select one with a larger starting diameter or fewer steps, so the point
does not hit the far wall (assuming that you don't want to drill through
both sides).

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2009-08-26, bob prohaska's usenet account wrote:
Buerste wrote:
them. And, the bearings don't always fit into a good bore and the shafts
aren't great fits either. I won't buy them anymore, there are too many used
good ones out there.

I'm in the market for a good used drill press. Do you have any suggestions
as to brand/type? Smaller is ok, low speed (as for a hole saw) would be
a plus. Everything I've seen is an East Asian import except for one
vintage Delta with a bent spindle.

I have a hobby of buying stuff in liquidations. Here are some
observations.

We are in the middle of a once in a generation destruction of American
metalworking industry. This may not necessarily be a negative for the
country, as the old technology would possibly make way for new
technology, but this old technology is valuable to hobbyists because
we can actually comprehend it.

So, where to look for those drill presses?

The answer is, at liquidation auctions.

Two weeks ago I bought an old 1/2 HP Craftsman bench drill press for
$15, for example. It worked great. It is nothing like what you can buy
at Sears today. It weighed at least 120 lbs.

check out also

https://www.premierarg.com/live/jsp/...&imageId=75680

(the motor here may be somewhat underpowered)


i

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:50:24 +0000 (UTC), bob prohaska's usenet account
wrote:

Buerste wrote:
them. And, the bearings don't always fit into a good bore and the shafts
aren't great fits either. I won't buy them anymore, there are too many used
good ones out there.

I'm in the market for a good used drill press. Do you have any suggestions
as to brand/type? Smaller is ok, low speed (as for a hole saw) would be
a plus. Everything I've seen is an East Asian import except for one
vintage Delta with a bent spindle.

bob prohaska


Where do you live? Ive got several Deltas, Rockwells and whatnot.

Gunner, California


Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:50:24 +0000 (UTC), bob prohaska's usenet
account wrote:


I'm in the market for a good used drill press. Do you have any suggestions
as to brand/type? Smaller is ok, low speed (as for a hole saw) would be
a plus. Everything I've seen is an East Asian import except for one
vintage Delta with a bent spindle.

bob prohaska

Watch on Craigslist and look in the local shopper newspaper. I'm
partial to Rockwell, old Delta Milwaukee and Walker Turner drill
presses. All three companies became related due to buyouts. I prefer
step pulley models due to simplicity and I'm told that there was a
period of time in the (I think) 1970s-1980s where Rockwell variable
speed machines were not well made. If you're in central PA, I"m going
to sell my bench model Walker Turner which I replaced recently with a
20" floor model Rockwell.

RWL

Thanks for all the suggestions. Getting better presses is ideal, but
that's going to take some time and I'm just looking for a easier
option for now. The right bits work fine. I was using bits I found
with an almost neutral rake and that solved the problem. But I can't
find those or anything like them anymore, nor can I find anybody that
is capable of sharpening some like them in this ever de-evolutionized
world where nobody knows how to do anything anymore... So I'm still
looking. I tried the Unabit and they do work well, but sorry... I
should have mentioned this is mainly for doing two sides at a time
through tube. So every extra step greatly lengthens the amount of
work. Ideally I would love to find letter sizes, which would eliminate
one more step. I'm mainly doing about 1/8 or #27 to about F or G. The
biggest is maybe 21/64, but for some reason those don't seem to have a
problem. mainly around the 1/4 size do. Somebody said I should try the
straight flute or the one I originally showed, because they have a low
rake. But I've tried so many, I just wanted to see what people thought
before I spent more money. Some day I want to do this with CNC, but
that's a ways off.

On the subject of the evaporating American heavy industry... It's a
sad thing, but as mentioned, there can be an up side. There's some
surplus stores out there that are awesome. Stainless fasteners dirt
cheap... all kinds of stuff. There's a place in CA that got a lot of
it's stuff from Lockheed Burbank when it closed... They've even got
some of the old metal placards and stuff.

Update... I've found that the DeWalt "Pilot Point" bits seem to work
fairly well in thin stock. They still need a smaller pilot hole to
work perfectly on larger sizes, but they do work. So that at least
helps until I work out the real issues, which is probably just drill
machine quality. But the next step is to find pilot point style bits
in letter sizes. DeWalt apparently doesn't have them. I've seen other
brands in the same style, but no letter sizes yet.