I'm looking ahead to my eventual move to Australia, which might happen
sooner that I really want if things don't pick up around here soon.

I would like to take my whole shop, lock stock and barrel. Started
looking into voltage/frequency converters, and saw a post on a message
board about driving a 110-220v/60Hz generator with a 220/50Hz motor,
using a belt drive to run the generator at proper input rpm.
I easily run my 3 phase equipment through a home brew rotary phase
converter on a 50 amp circuit. 50 amps, as I can unplug the converter
and plug in my MIG welder. The convert has 30 amp slow-blow fuses, and
have never popped them. If I got my numbers right, a 12Kw or greater
generator should handle this easily, and handle any 110 stuff I'd want
to run at the same time. I'd take all my conduit and sub panel (plus
some spare breakers) and run circuits for the US stuff, and the normal
circuits for anything I add to the menagerie there.
Anyone have a good idea what HP 3 phase motor I'll need to locate over
there to drive a 12Kw generator?

Now on to the equipment, I could cut back to a smaller generator if I
could run the 3 phase machines on 50Hz. Both Hardinge lathes state 60Hz,
as does the 5hp motor on my CNC mill. The Bridgeport says 50 and 60hz if
I'm reading the stamped tag properly. I'm no electrical engineer, but it
doesn't look to me like it would be wise to try and run the other three
machines on 50Hz, but I find it curious the BP appears to be rated for it.

Thoughts? Comments?

Btw, my reasons for wanting to take the whole shop is because all this
stuff is paid for. In this economy, I'm not going to get near top dollar
for it From what I've heard, machinery and tooling is pretty pricey down
under. Looking into container shipping, and I'm guessing it's going to
be cheaper to ship a working shop that try and find machines there and
have them shipped out to a rural town.


Thanks,

Jon

Thoughts? Comments?

Btw, my reasons for wanting to take the whole shop is because all this
stuff is paid for. In this economy, I'm not going to get near top dollar
for it From what I've heard, machinery and tooling is pretty pricey down
under. Looking into container shipping, and I'm guessing it's going to be
cheaper to ship a working shop that try and find machines there and have
them shipped out to a rural town.


Thanks,

Jon

my recollection from looking around AU a couple of years ago was that tools
were expensive, as you suspect - but you might find that motors are not too
dear. Further, on many of your tools, you can rewire the motors easily for
220V, the only difference the 50 hz will make is that they will run 5/6
speed and a bit hotter - if you add some cooling (like a fan) to anything
that seems to run too hot, then that problem is taken care of - if shaft
speed is important, you can adjust pulley size. Or go to 3 phase motors and
use small VFDs

On Tue, 19 May 2009 18:06:14 -0800, Jon Anderson
wrote:


Now on to the equipment, I could cut back to a smaller generator if I
could run the 3 phase machines on 50Hz. Both Hardinge lathes state 60Hz,
as does the 5hp motor on my CNC mill. The Bridgeport says 50 and 60hz if
I'm reading the stamped tag properly. I'm no electrical engineer, but it
doesn't look to me like it would be wise to try and run the other three
machines on 50Hz, but I find it curious the BP appears to be rated for it.

Thoughts? Comments?

If the motors that are not rated for 50Hz run hot, you can reduce the
voltage to 50/60 x nameplate voltage with buck transformers. The speed
and HP will also drop to 5/6 of the nameplate rating. This is exactly
what a basic VFD does, in fact, they're sometimes called V/Hz drives.

If you want the full speed and HP, a properly set up VFD will do it,
regardless of the input frequency.

--
Ned Simmons

Jon Anderson wrote:
Ned & Bill,

Thanks for the input. Gunner thinks my Omniturn control might run OK
on 50hz, and it dawns on me that perhaps my home brew power supply for
the CNC mill might work OK too since power is rectified to DC.
Certainly, both computer's power supplies can be switched to 220/50Hz.

If I'm going to do anything for power conversion, I thought I might as
well go all out so that the many 110v tools I have can be used. Baldor
carbide grinder, the Deckel I still hope to obtain, torque limiting
power screwdriver, hand drills, power shears, grinders, Dremels, etc.
Individually not terribly expensive, but as a whole there is a lot of
capability in all these tools that would cost a pretty penny to
repurchase over there. And I have a pretty killer shop stereo setup
I'd love to take along.... G.

Lots to consider, have to start somewhere!

Jon

I don't know about Australia but in the UK tools on building sites have
to be 110V for safety reasons and so 240V to 110V transformers are
readily available and not particularly expensive. I don't think the
universal motors will mind the frequency difference.

Ned & Bill,

Thanks for the input. Gunner thinks my Omniturn control might run OK on
50hz, and it dawns on me that perhaps my home brew power supply for the
CNC mill might work OK too since power is rectified to DC. Certainly,
both computer's power supplies can be switched to 220/50Hz.

If I'm going to do anything for power conversion, I thought I might as
well go all out so that the many 110v tools I have can be used. Baldor
carbide grinder, the Deckel I still hope to obtain, torque limiting
power screwdriver, hand drills, power shears, grinders, Dremels, etc.
Individually not terribly expensive, but as a whole there is a lot of
capability in all these tools that would cost a pretty penny to
repurchase over there. And I have a pretty killer shop stereo setup I'd
love to take along.... G.

Lots to consider, have to start somewhere!

Jon

On 2009-05-20, Jon Anderson wrote:
Ned & Bill,

Thanks for the input. Gunner thinks my Omniturn control might run OK on
50hz, and it dawns on me that perhaps my home brew power supply for the
CNC mill might work OK too since power is rectified to DC. Certainly,
both computer's power supplies can be switched to 220/50Hz.

If I'm going to do anything for power conversion, I thought I might as
well go all out so that the many 110v tools I have can be used. Baldor
carbide grinder, the Deckel I still hope to obtain, torque limiting
power screwdriver, hand drills, power shears, grinders, Dremels, etc.
Individually not terribly expensive, but as a whole there is a lot of
capability in all these tools that would cost a pretty penny to
repurchase over there. And I have a pretty killer shop stereo setup I'd
love to take along.... G.

Hmm ... for the lower powered things, a big autotransformer (or
a stepdown isolation transformer). You want one rated for 50 Hz of
course, so you might do better getting that in OZ. One option is a big
(e.g. 20A or so) 240 V Variac or Powerstat. Most of them have a center
tap, so you can wire your outlets between neutral and the center tap and
not have to worry about someone spinning the big wheel (knob) and frying
what is connected to it. I have seen a kid do precisely this, in an
audio facility in an embassy. The load needed to be hooked to the wiper
for that use, because the line voltage was rather untrustworthy. You
might wire a second outlet, with a cover painted bright red, to the
wiper soyou can test equipment at lower or higher voltages.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Jon Anderson writes:


Now on to the equipment, I could cut back to a smaller generator if I
could run the 3 phase machines on 50Hz. Both Hardinge lathes state 60Hz,
as does the 5hp motor on my CNC mill. The Bridgeport says 50 and 60hz if
I'm reading the stamped tag properly. I'm no electrical engineer, but it
doesn't look to me like it would be wise to try and run the other three
machines on 50Hz, but I find it curious the BP appears to be rated for it.

Thoughts? Comments?

I am dubious it pays to ship big heavy motors, vice buying ones there;
but you can do your own figuring there.

If the motors are rated 50/60; they'll run on 50Hz. If not, rotsaruck.
Running a motor underspeed decreases its counter-EMF, ergo increases
its current draw.

I'd be thinking of a VFD. It can get you 60 Hz easily. I don't know
how much single-phase load they'll take, but my SWAG is a good %
of their rating.

Any motors with brushes, i.e. electric drills, hand grinders, won't care.

Switcher supplies won't care. Wall-warts {with transformer/rectifiers}
WILL care but may survive on 50 hz. The most marginal will croak in minutes,
the others may overheat badly. [I have a larger one - 3"x5"tallx3" deep. It
was in a 50 hz location and melted. It went from:

-----
| |
| |-- plug]
| |
| |
| |
-----

to:

/|
/ |-- plug]
/ |
/ |
| |
| |
| /
| /
|/


It sagged down the wall...

Try the wallwart and feel it every few minutes to see how hot
it is getting.


Btw, my reasons for wanting to take the whole shop is because all this
stuff is paid for. In this economy, I'm not going to get near top dollar
for it From what I've heard, machinery and tooling is pretty pricey down
under. Looking into container shipping, and I'm guessing it's going to
be cheaper to ship a working shop that try and find machines there and
have them shipped out to a rural town.

And the import taxes on same?

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

David Lesher wrote:

I am dubious it pays to ship big heavy motors, vice buying ones there;
but you can do your own figuring there.
Well, load capacity of a 20' container is approx 20,000 lbs. Volume-wise
I can't get everything into a 20'r so would have to use either 2 20's or
a 40'. I know actual weight has a lot to do with shipping costs, but the
cost of throwing in a couple motors is insignificant compared to the
overall cost. If I decide to build a 50Hz run voltage/freq generator
though, I'd get dims for a suitable motor, build the unit here, and buy
the motor there.

And the import taxes on same?
Still have lots to research, but my understanding at the moment is that
if I'm bringing in as my own personal possessions with intent to do
business, or just a well set up hobbyist, I don't have to pay VAT.
However I understand selling machines within a year or two of moving
there could incur a VAT assessment.

Jon