Fixing the burnt breaker was *much* easier than I expected. I decided
to simply remove the breaker entirely from the box; connected the
incoming wires directly to the loads with wire nuts.

Now, before you blanch or jump to reply to such an insanely stupid
action... here is something I didn't know about the system until
yesterday.

This house originally had a fuse box. About four years ago we had the
entire box replaced with a proper breaker box (tired of buying those
d*mn fuses!) It turns out that the electrician fed that little
outdoor box through a 30A breaker in the main panel!

So there were *two* breakers on that circuit, one in the main panel,
one in the outdoor box. I just removed the one in the outdoor box. To
restate: The circuit *has* a 30A 220V breaker, it's in the main panel
and has been for four years.

Again, many thanks to Stuart. Without your suggestion I probably
would not have taken the time to look more closely at the main panel
connection.

Best -- Terry
....who is now overjoyed to be able to rewire his new welder from 120
to 220V...life is good...

On Apr 25, 4:27*am, Terry wrote:
Fixing the burnt breaker was *much* easier than I expected. *I decided
to simply remove the breaker entirely from the box; connected the
incoming wires directly to the loads with wire nuts.

Now, before you blanch or jump to reply to such an insanely stupid
action... here is something I didn't know about the system until
yesterday.

This house originally had a fuse box. *About four years ago we had the
entire box replaced with a proper breaker box (tired of buying those
d*mn fuses!) *It turns out that the electrician fed that little
outdoor box through a 30A breaker in the main panel!

So there were *two* breakers on that circuit, one in the main panel,
one in the outdoor box. *I just removed the one in the outdoor box. To
restate: *The circuit *has* a 30A 220V breaker, it's in the main panel
and has been for four years.

Again, many thanks to Stuart. *Without your suggestion I probably
would not have taken the time to look more closely at the main panel
connection.

Best -- Terry
...who is now overjoyed to be able to rewire his new welder from 120
to 220V...life is good...

Terry.
I hope the 30A breaker is a double breaker so both sides of the 220
are opened when a fault occurs.

Paul

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:58:45 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Terry.
I hope the 30A breaker is a double breaker so both sides of the 220
are opened when a fault occurs.

Paul

Yup. No worries.

Terry wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:58:45 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Terry.
I hope the 30A breaker is a double breaker so both sides of the 220
are opened when a fault occurs.

Paul

Yup. No worries.


Generally cascading breakers are sized to trip closest to the load. If the 30A tandem
breaker will protect the wires downstream, I'm not going to get picky. Code might be
another issue but I'm not going there tonight.

Wes

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:07:17 -0400, Wes wrote:

Terry wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:58:45 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Terry.
I hope the 30A breaker is a double breaker so both sides of the 220
are opened when a fault occurs.

Paul

Yup. No worries.


Generally cascading breakers are sized to trip closest to the load. If the 30A tandem
breaker will protect the wires downstream, I'm not going to get picky. Code might be
another issue but I'm not going there tonight.

Wes

The outside box and the inside panel 30A breakers are about 18 inches
apart....

Best-- Terry

"Terry" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:07:17 -0400, Wes wrote:

Terry wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:58:45 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Terry.
I hope the 30A breaker is a double breaker so both sides of the 220
are opened when a fault occurs.

Paul

Yup. No worries.


Generally cascading breakers are sized to trip closest to the load. If
the 30A tandem
breaker will protect the wires downstream, I'm not going to get picky.
Code might be
another issue but I'm not going there tonight.

Wes

The outside box and the inside panel 30A breakers are about 18 inches
apart....

Best-- Terry

Might have been better to install a disconnect instead of a mini breaker
panel then anyway.

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:04:40 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

The outside box and the inside panel 30A breakers are about 18 inches
apart....

Best-- Terry

Might have been better to install a disconnect instead of a mini breaker
panel then anyway.

That does bring up a point; is there some reason that I might need a
disconnect on this outside box, considering that I can walk about
twenty feet round the corner, into the garage and flip the breaker
anytime it's necessary? Just wondering if there's something I'm not
considering.

Best -- Terry

"Terry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:04:40 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

The outside box and the inside panel 30A breakers are about 18 inches
apart....

Best-- Terry

Might have been better to install a disconnect instead of a mini breaker
panel then anyway.

That does bring up a point; is there some reason that I might need a
disconnect on this outside box, considering that I can walk about
twenty feet round the corner, into the garage and flip the breaker
anytime it's necessary? Just wondering if there's something I'm not
considering.

Best -- Terry

If the lathe has an emergency stop switch probably not.

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:50:43 -0500, Terry
wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:58:45 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Terry.
I hope the 30A breaker is a double breaker so both sides of the 220
are opened when a fault occurs.

Paul

Yup. No worries.

Well they DO make 30A 40A and 50A single-pole breakers, but you
aren't going to find them 'In the wild" witout a reason. They are
special order only. The only common usage for a 30A single pole is
for a Travel Trailer outlet.

Now that I know you have enough panel, the next project is to bump
up the feeder out to the garage. Cut the voltage drop, and you can
run a plasma cutter and let the compressor kick on at the same time.

If you have 3/4" conduit out to the garage you can get 3 #6 THHN
Copper and a #10 ground in 3/4" conduit, and depending on how you
derate (underground or free air) 50A to 60A - that's plenty for a
garage sub.

Bigger pipe is always better, and for long distances you can run big
Aluminum wire without breaking the bank.

-- Bruce --

Terry writes:

Might have been better to install a disconnect instead of a mini breaker
panel then anyway.

That does bring up a point; is there some reason that I might need a
disconnect on this outside box, considering that I can walk about
twenty feet round the corner, into the garage and flip the breaker
anytime it's necessary? Just wondering if there's something I'm not
considering.

If you have machinery spliced in -- aka NO plug/jack in sight of the
machinery; both the Code [afaik..] and more importantly, common sense
requires same.
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 12:31:26 -0500, Terry
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:04:40 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

The outside box and the inside panel 30A breakers are about 18 inches
apart....

Best-- Terry

Might have been better to install a disconnect instead of a mini breaker
panel then anyway.

That does bring up a point; is there some reason that I might need a
disconnect on this outside box, considering that I can walk about
twenty feet round the corner, into the garage and flip the breaker
anytime it's necessary? Just wondering if there's something I'm not
considering.

Not needed - just have that garage door unlocked and/or open while
welding, so you can make the run if an "Oh ****!" moment happens.

Or bump up the garage service, and put a sub-panel out in the
garage, you can cut the welder power off there.

As an aside, that old outside breaker box was probably installed
because they were tapping into the old fusebox BEFORE the Main Switch
and fuses, or before the other fuses if it was a "six-fuse no Main"
setup as was typical. As long as the wires from the unfused meter
socket to the new breaker were under 10 feet, it was allowed. That
way they got an extra circuit to send out to the garage, and avoided
those persnickety fuses which tend to pop a lot when stick welding.

Of course, it can cause severe problems if the old A-base Power
Meter Socket and the #10 Type R service riser wires are only good for
30A, and you try pulling 80A or more through them. Things start
getting real hot...

(Some of the old power meters and meter sockets were good for 70A to
100A and can be left in place if they are in good shape, and you don't
want to mess around with permits and inspections... But an upgrade to
modern THHN riser wires and a more modern breaker panel with a real
Main would definitely be called for.)

-- Bruce --

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:04:40 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Terry" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:07:17 -0400, Wes wrote:

Terry wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:58:45 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Terry.
I hope the 30A breaker is a double breaker so both sides of the 220
are opened when a fault occurs.

Paul

Yup. No worries.


Generally cascading breakers are sized to trip closest to the load. If
the 30A tandem
breaker will protect the wires downstream, I'm not going to get picky.
Code might be
another issue but I'm not going there tonight.

Wes

The outside box and the inside panel 30A breakers are about 18 inches
apart....

Best-- Terry

Might have been better to install a disconnect instead of a mini breaker
panel then anyway.
When it was installed the inside box was a full fuse box, if I
remember the OP's explanation. It was an "expander" box to add an
extra 220 line .

On 2009-04-26, Terry wrote:
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:04:40 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

The outside box and the inside panel 30A breakers are about 18 inches
apart....

Best-- Terry

Might have been better to install a disconnect instead of a mini breaker
panel then anyway.

That does bring up a point; is there some reason that I might need a
disconnect on this outside box, considering that I can walk about
twenty feet round the corner, into the garage and flip the breaker
anytime it's necessary? Just wondering if there's something I'm not
considering.

Well ... I understand that circuit breakers are designed to
interrupt power during fault conditions, not to be used regularly as a
switch, so they might develop problems over time if you use them that
way.

In addition -- sometimes having that disconnect *right* *there*
instead of around the corner in the garage lets you cut power in an
emergency situation just that much more quickly.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 28 Apr 2009 23:40:20 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2009-04-26, Terry wrote:
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:04:40 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

The outside box and the inside panel 30A breakers are about 18 inches
apart....

Best-- Terry

Might have been better to install a disconnect instead of a mini breaker
panel then anyway.

That does bring up a point; is there some reason that I might need a
disconnect on this outside box, considering that I can walk about
twenty feet round the corner, into the garage and flip the breaker
anytime it's necessary? Just wondering if there's something I'm not
considering.

Well ... I understand that circuit breakers are designed to
interrupt power during fault conditions, not to be used regularly as a
switch, so they might develop problems over time if you use them that
way.

In addition -- sometimes having that disconnect *right* *there*
instead of around the corner in the garage lets you cut power in an
emergency situation just that much more quickly.

Enjoy,
DoN.
Around here the rule is "within sight" and has recently been amended
such that sight line through a window is no longer acceptable (as
indicated last fall when my A/C system was replaced).
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada