Wild_Bill wrote:
Some early home computer monitors were completely dumb, as they only had
a composite video input. So the only signals over a single coaxial 75
ohm cable were the sync signals and the video information.

Maybe early Apple, that Shack store and Commodore monitors were plain
composite video. The output cable from those early home computers ould
be connected to a Video In RCA jack on a TV that had the connector, or a
video-only (no TV tuner) monitor.

That's exactly what I have, and it appears to be the original equipment
on this Emco 5 CNC lathe

Some of the B&W/mono, green or amber CRT dumb terminals were capable of
displaying composite video signals if the user knew which pins in the
signal cable (DB-9 or other) to use for the plain video signal.
IIRC, the sync leads needed to be tied to the video signal and attached
to a RCA connector. The only place I can remember that had the
pins/signals info is the excellent science.electronics.repair FAQ.

None of this is really pertinent, since the OP was hoping to find a
small LCD display instead of a CRT video monitor. If he had one of the
old CRT monitors, they might suffice until he locates an LCD, but I
would assume that most of the old CRT displays are likely to be faulty
by now.

This one works fine, but it looks cheap and clunky perched atop the
control panel. I just want to modernize it and reduce the top-heaviness
of the machine.

I guess the ideal would be one of those motorized LCDs that come in car
stereos now hmmmm.

On 2009-04-09, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2009-04-08, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

IIRC, the name is "Tera Term" not "Terra Term". (Single 'r')
Might make a difference in a web search for it.


I find it with both terms, but get more hits with a single 'r'.

Probably because it is fairly common to misspell it to match the
Latin name of our planet. :-)


That, and the fact that I hadn't used it since 2000.

FWIW -- it had been something similar since I set it up for my
friend -- and I also mis-remembered the spelling. I was spelling it
"T*a*ra Term" -- but a quick web search before posting showed me my
error. :-)

These days, if *I* were going to connect from a Windows box, I
would install Cygwin and have the true ssh to work with -- as well as
bash and a lot of other unix tools to make me feel at home.

But, of course, none of this solves the problem of the original
poster, who needs a real video monitor, not a computer terminal or a
computer monitor. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2009-04-09, RB wrote:
Wild_Bill wrote:
I meant that none of my comments (not others'), WRT old CRT monitors,
were pertinent to his inquiry.

There don't seem to be a lot of cheap (depending upon one's definition)
new LCD TVs, PC or just composite monitors.. not that I've seen (except
used ones and ones that are dead).

[ ... ]

In fact, that is exactly what I'm looking for.
And for the same machine Don Nichols has - Emco 5 CNC

Hmm ... I just remembered something. If you have an old analog
TV around of reasonable size (which is about to become otherwise useless
in June -- unless they delay it yet again :-), open up the back of the
lathe and trace the video cable to the card where it connects inside.
You will see it plugging into a RCA Phono jack -- and you should see a
metal can on the board with another RCA Phono jack. This produces a RF
signal, so you can connect it to the antenna jack and tune to channel 4
or 5 (IIRC). There is a tiny switch on the can which selects which of
the two channels is used. While the quality of the video through this
is not as good as a direct connection, the Compact-5/CNC uses rather
large characters, so the image is good enough to read easily.

Watch for local hamfests (in the UK they are called "Radio
Rallys", IIRC). It will cost you something between $5.00 and $10.00 to
attend -- and keep your eyes open for other things of interest --
especially in the "tailgating" area (sales from the trunk of a vehicle,
or from tables or cloth spread on the ground).

For those who have never seen a hamfest, nor heard of one, think
of it as a giant electronics focused flea market.

Just for the fun of it -- let's see what I can remember picking
up at hamfests which might be of interest he

1) B&S 0-6" digital calipers (now not usable because they need
PX-13 mercury cells in a holder which would not be happy with
any modern cell, even if the slightly higher voltage does not
harm it.) I'll try that someday.

Cost: $15.00 in a fitted wood box.

2) Mitutoyo 0-12" digital calipers -- new in wood box still sealed
in plastic. $115.00

3) A Westinghouse/TECO VFD rated for 30A input and output.
Figuring that it needs to be derated a bit when run from single
phase it looks as though it can power a 7-1/2 HP motor.

Cost: $100.00 -- before VFDs became common.

For the following, I don't remember what I paid.

4) Runout dial indicators.

5) Device for use on a surface plate to check the verticality of
a workpiece or a machinist's square by sliding a dial indicator
up and down it under precise control.

6) Device for measuring threads over wires. You look up or
calculate the dimension over the wires, build a stack of gauge
blocks to that dimension and zero the dial -- then open it and
replace with the thread to be tested with the wires in place.
There are even some holders to hold the wires in place over the
anvils.

7) Temperature controller for a heat treat oven.

8) Mushroom headed panic switch for powered machines.

9) Various relays for controlling machines.

10) lots of bagged screws, nuts, and other hardware scattered over
time.

11) Good AMP brand ratcheting crimpers -- and terminals to fit.

12) AMP hydraulic hand-pumped crimper with dies for 6 Ga terminals,
which I used for wiring the Westinghouse VFD.

13) Large machinist's vise.

14) 1/2 ton arbor press.

15) Some good quality unibits covering sizes other than my
original one from thirty years ago.

16) A General Radio StroboTac for measuring RPM and viewing cyclic
machines slowed down.

17) Three hand-held mechanical tachometers with differing scales
and with rubber tired wheels with a circumference of either
one foot or one-half foot -- useful for measuring the SFM
(surface feet per minute) of things like a bandsaw blade, or the
OD of a workpiece in a lathe to save you from calculating it.
:-) Also rubber cups and cones for contacting the end of a shaft
to measure its speed.

18) Variacs and other variable autotransformers to allow you to run
a universal motor at lower voltages.

So -- even if you don't find a CRT monitor at a good price, you
can likely find something else worth having.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 22:31:31 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
....
Just for the fun of it -- let's see what I can remember picking
up at hamfests which might be of interest he

1) B&S 0-6" digital calipers (now not usable because they need
PX-13 mercury cells in a holder which would not be happy with any
modern cell, even if the slightly higher voltage does not harm
it.)
I'll try that someday.
....

A WeinCell MRB625 battery is supposed to be a proper $4 substitute
for a PX-13 mercury cell, according to various web pages like
http://www.pictureline.com/products/...B625_Battery/?
utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping_engine&utm_c ampaign=google_products
and http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/sc/from-froogle.asp?
id=934228001&rf=froogle&dfdate=4_8_2009 or $40/dozen at
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=MRB625-12

They claim "WeinCell is a revolutionary new zinc/air battery
designed to replace environmentally-unfriendly (banned) mercury
batteries. ... Only WeinCells deliver exact voltage and stable
output consistent with mercury batteries." ... "the WeinCell is
not activated until the pull-tab is removed (removing batteries
from equipment and replacing tabs prolongs battery life)." ...

"The WeinCELL MRB625 batteries last much longer than hearing
aid batteries, some times up to a year. To achieve this longer
life, the MRB625 used a proprietary electrolyte and has only
two small air holes, instead of the 7 larger holes found in
standard hearing aid batteries.", per
http://www.mdbattery.com/product_info.php?products_id=153&cPath=134

--
jiw

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2009-04-09, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2009-04-08, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

IIRC, the name is "Tera Term" not "Terra Term". (Single 'r')
Might make a difference in a web search for it.


I find it with both terms, but get more hits with a single 'r'.

Probably because it is fairly common to misspell it to match the
Latin name of our planet. :-)


That, and the fact that I hadn't used it since 2000.

FWIW -- it had been something similar since I set it up for my
friend -- and I also mis-remembered the spelling. I was spelling it
"T*a*ra Term" -- but a quick web search before posting showed me my
error. :-)

These days, if *I* were going to connect from a Windows box, I
would install Cygwin and have the true ssh to work with -- as well as
bash and a lot of other unix tools to make me feel at home.

But, of course, none of this solves the problem of the original
poster, who needs a real video monitor, not a computer terminal or a
computer monitor. :-)


When I need a composite monitor, I go out to the garage and dig one
out. I still have four working Commodore 1701 monitors, and a dozen or
so monochrome monitors in aluminum cases. I also have a 23" monochrome
security monitor, up on a shelf. One of these days I am going to
have to get rid of a couple hundred monitors & terminals. Anyone
need any TTL monochrome monitors? I think I still have a dozen 4" NCR
ATM monitors. They had a problem with the cheap connector between the
two circuit boards, but were easy to fix with a couple inches of ribbon
cable.

--
And another motherboard bites the dust!

I was fairly certain about what you were looking for, Rex, but the more I
search, there just don't seem to be many LCDs in that size range that don't
cost quite a bit (costing as much as a 17-19").

I think the market for 10-12" 4:3 aspect ratio monitors was fairly limited,
mostly to commercial equipment, and essentially none were made as TV/DVD
displays before home video equipment transitioned from 4:3 TV/VCRs to
widescreen displays for DVDs.

I use a couple of smaller 4:3 LCDs for video camera images, but they might
not be as comfortable to look at for your purpose.

SONY FDL-X600 5.9" color LCD presently going for ~$200 (orig $2300)

Everfocus E220N 5.6" CCTV/security color LCD going for $150+ (with accy pkg,
MSRP ~$400)

I don't think you'd want to use a 6" LCD display for your lathe, and 10-12"
seem to be non-existent. As I mentioned before, the smaller 7-10" widescreen
TV/DVD screens may stretch the video width-wise.

Some 15" PC monitors may have a Video In connector (most/many do not), so
15" TVs will most likely be the most commonly available displays.

Unless you get lucky and find one that's cheap, LCD monitors made for the
security/surveillance market are generally over-priced, probably just
average quality for above average prices, although they may have some
additional features that are of no interest to you.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"RB" wrote in message
...
Wild_Bill wrote:
I've been looking at local stores and on eBay, for a small (10-12" or
15") LCD composite video input monitor or a dual-purpose video/PC LCD,
but not a widescreen (so the composite video doesn't get stretched) and
they aren't plentiful in my experience, or they cost as much as the
larger widescreen models ($200+).


In fact, that is exactly what I'm looking for.
And for the same machine Don Nichols has - Emco 5 CNC

Wild_Bill wrote:
I was fairly certain about what you were looking for, Rex, but the more
I search, there just don't seem to be many LCDs in that size range that
don't cost quite a bit (costing as much as a 17-19").

I think the market for 10-12" 4:3 aspect ratio monitors was fairly
limited, mostly to commercial equipment, and essentially none were made
as TV/DVD displays before home video equipment transitioned from 4:3
TV/VCRs to widescreen displays for DVDs.

I use a couple of smaller 4:3 LCDs for video camera images, but they
might not be as comfortable to look at for your purpose.

SONY FDL-X600 5.9" color LCD presently going for ~$200 (orig $2300)

Everfocus E220N 5.6" CCTV/security color LCD going for $150+ (with accy
pkg, MSRP ~$400)

I don't think you'd want to use a 6" LCD display for your lathe, and
10-12" seem to be non-existent. As I mentioned before, the smaller 7-10"
widescreen TV/DVD screens may stretch the video width-wise.

Some 15" PC monitors may have a Video In connector (most/many do not),
so 15" TVs will most likely be the most commonly available displays.

Unless you get lucky and find one that's cheap, LCD monitors made for
the security/surveillance market are generally over-priced, probably
just average quality for above average prices, although they may have
some additional features that are of no interest to you.

Bill, my initial search seemed to indicate the things you mention.
I originally posted in hopes someone knew of an obscure surplus seller
that had some suitable special-purpose screens.
The discussion has been interesting. I had not considered the asp[ect
ration being a problem, so that was helpful.

But the bottom line is it works now, and the screen in place does fine.
It's just a cheap Magnavox 80 monitor sitting on a very nice machine. It
looks like the add-on it is.

I really appreciate all the input. It has been informative.
I'll keep looking for something, with a better idea of what I need.

RB fired this volley in
:

Walgreens sells a cheap under-the-counter 10" or 12" LCD television that
is native 4:3 ratio, and digital-ready, but not HD.

IIRC, it was under $120. Check and see if it has monitor inputs.

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
RB fired this volley in
:

Walgreens sells a cheap under-the-counter 10" or 12" LCD television that
is native 4:3 ratio, and digital-ready, but not HD.

IIRC, it was under $120. Check and see if it has monitor inputs.

that would be interesting.
I'll stop and check

Thanks

Sent an email to the address showing here, with the same subject line.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"RB" wrote in message
...

Bill, my initial search seemed to indicate the things you mention.
I originally posted in hopes someone knew of an obscure surplus seller
that had some suitable special-purpose screens.
The discussion has been interesting. I had not considered the asp[ect
ration being a problem, so that was helpful.

But the bottom line is it works now, and the screen in place does fine.
It's just a cheap Magnavox 80 monitor sitting on a very nice machine. It
looks like the add-on it is.

I really appreciate all the input. It has been informative.
I'll keep looking for something, with a better idea of what I need.

On 9 Apr 2009 22:31:31 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2009-04-09, RB wrote:
Wild_Bill wrote:
I meant that none of my comments (not others'), WRT old CRT monitors,
were pertinent to his inquiry.

There don't seem to be a lot of cheap (depending upon one's definition)
new LCD TVs, PC or just composite monitors.. not that I've seen (except
used ones and ones that are dead).

Do you have a "factory direct" or "Xess Cargo" type store in your
area? They often have the dual screen DVD players on sale for less
than the cost of a small TV - and the second screen is a simple
composite video monitor - usually about 8". I got a Polaroid branded
one last year for $129 Canadian - complete with 12vdc power converter
for home use and a nice lithium battery pack for the player unit
(which powers both screens when in use )

On 2009-04-09, James Waldby wrote:
On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 22:31:31 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
...
Just for the fun of it -- let's see what I can remember picking
up at hamfests which might be of interest he

1) B&S 0-6" digital calipers (now not usable because they need
PX-13 mercury cells in a holder which would not be happy with any
modern cell, even if the slightly higher voltage does not harm
it.)
I'll try that someday.
...

A WeinCell MRB625 battery is supposed to be a proper $4 substitute
for a PX-13 mercury cell,

But since the B&S caliper needs *four* of them, that is a $16.00
replacement. (It is a "DIGIT-CAL II", FWIW.) (At least it is better
than some adaptors which were supposed to convert something like a SR357
to fit the PX-13 profile, which were selling for something like $25.00
each. Five Chinese calipers are cheaper enough of those to run the
caliper. :-)

according to various web pages like
http://www.pictureline.com/products/...B625_Battery/?
utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping_engine&utm_c ampaign=google_products
and http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/sc/from-froogle.asp?
id=934228001&rf=froogle&dfdate=4_8_2009 or $40/dozen at
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=MRB625-12

The voltage is right (1.35 V), but none of the web pages show a
side or angled view of the cell -- just a photo of it in a blister pack.

The shape of most cells is with a straight side, but the PX-13s
have (had) a profile like this (view with a fixed pitch font to avoid
distortion):
-
_--------_
_/__________\_
(_ _)
|__________|
+

And the cell holder which snaps onto the back of the caliper
*depends* on those side bulges to make contact.

They claim "WeinCell is a revolutionary new zinc/air battery
designed to replace environmentally-unfriendly (banned) mercury
batteries. ... Only WeinCells deliver exact voltage and stable
output consistent with mercury batteries." ... "the WeinCell is
not activated until the pull-tab is removed (removing batteries
from equipment and replacing tabs prolongs battery life)." ...

Snapping off the battery holder, removing two small Phillips
screws, removing the four cells, and relacing the tabs -- certainly
sounds convenient. :-) Well ... three of the four cells are held + side
up, visible through apertures in the holder, but (assuming that is the
surface with the holes to be covered) that still leaves one which
requires the same disassembly sequence.

And -- they don't say how long it takes to come up to full
voltage after removing the tabs each time. :-)

Since this does not require the sable voltage that an exposure
meter (or one built into a camera), I'm more likely to machine a
replacement holder using two CR3032 3V cells, with a silicon diode and
two germanium diodes in series with them (for a total of about 1 V drop,
since four mercury cells add up to 5 V, and the CR3032s are 3V each.)
I'll first check how forgiving it is using a bench power supply to apply
a full 6 V (working my way up from 5 V) and see whether it has problems
with that.

I've been considering this for a long time. I've got a Starrett
A Mitutoyo digital caliper, a Chinese manufacture one, and the 12"
Mitutoyo one.

But the interesting thing about this one is that it uses the
same technology that the glass scales for DROs and for CNC feedback use,
a barcode vacuum-plated on glass in the slot where the rack gear would
be on a dial caliper, a pair of barcodes 1/4 out of phase mounted to the
carrier, two leds and two photo-detectors. (The LEDs are probably why
it kills batteries more quickly -- but at least when you press "off", it
is *truly* off. :-)

Needless to say -- at this point I don't really *need* to have
this working -- but it is a neat enough design so I would *like* to have
it working. :-)

"The WeinCELL MRB625 batteries last much longer than hearing
aid batteries, some times up to a year. To achieve this longer
life, the MRB625 used a proprietary electrolyte and has only
two small air holes, instead of the 7 larger holes found in
standard hearing aid batteries.", per

So -- why don't they bother showing the form of the case?

http://www.mdbattery.com/product_info.php?products_id=153&cPath=134

Hmm ... these may be right -- if the shape is as described, and
if the caliper can tolerate 6.20 V.

I really need to contact Wein first and see whether they are
truly the shape of the PX-13 cells.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2009-04-10, Wild_Bill wrote:
I was fairly certain about what you were looking for, Rex, but the more I
search, there just don't seem to be many LCDs in that size range that don't
cost quite a bit (costing as much as a 17-19").

:-)

I think the market for 10-12" 4:3 aspect ratio monitors was fairly limited,
mostly to commercial equipment, and essentially none were made as TV/DVD
displays before home video equipment transitioned from 4:3 TV/VCRs to
widescreen displays for DVDs.

I use a couple of smaller 4:3 LCDs for video camera images, but they might
not be as comfortable to look at for your purpose.

SONY FDL-X600 5.9" color LCD presently going for ~$200 (orig $2300)

Of course, he doesn't *need* color. This is a purely B&W video
output. :-)

Everfocus E220N 5.6" CCTV/security color LCD going for $150+ (with accy pkg,
MSRP ~$400)

I don't think you'd want to use a 6" LCD display for your lathe,

Hmm ... depends on how his eyes are for close focus. The screen
is something like 13 lines by 32 characters, so it may well remain
legible. Put it on an arm so it is closer when you are programming.
(It also serves as a DRO when manually moving things with the buttons.

I just checked, and my CRT monitor is 8.5" diagonal. It is on a
shelf above the lathe, with a fluorescent light mounted to the underside
to contribute to work lighting. (There is also a hinged arm one for
spot lighting.

and 10-12"
seem to be non-existent. As I mentioned before, the smaller 7-10" widescreen
TV/DVD screens may stretch the video width-wise.

Again -- no problem. There are no graphics here -- just
digits and upper-case only text. Zeros are slashed, and I'm not even
sure whether any likely text uses a letter 'O' anyway. (Perhaps in one
of the other languages supported.) It does not even bother explicitly
showing the decimal point, it is simply assumed that the resolution is
0.001" or 0.01mm. (Hmm ... maybe it is spelled out at the top of the
programming and DRO screens. :-)

Some 15" PC monitors may have a Video In connector (most/many do not), so
15" TVs will most likely be the most commonly available displays.

I'm still not sure why he needs a LCD monitor instead of a small
CRT monitor. The power consumption is not that different in sizes like
that. And it can be plugged into an outlet on the back of the lathe to
be powered on only when the lathe is switched on.

eBay has a 12" CRT monitor (auction #200294292553) currently for
$48.51 (or best offer).

This one will probably be closed by the time you see this, but
it is a 7" one (#180344067240) which works with PAL and NTSC and has RCA
phono plugs for inputs. (I think that they are confused, however, as
they show two connectors for video in, and one for audio -- the reverse
of the normal with stereo audio. :-) Currently at $52.09 . But it needs
12V DC power input, not the AC line, so unless you have a 12W 12V power
supply on hand, you'll need to get more stuff to use it.

Oh yes -- it is also in Hong Kong. :-)

Hmm ... this one (# 120404335662) looks like what you need,
except that you will need to make a housing for it. $22.50 and in
California.

If you want to look through more of the listings (I'm about 3/4
of the way down the first page of 13 total), you might want to use my
search string to limit the number of hits to something reasonable.

+Video +monitor +small +LCD -camera -Microsoft -computer

Unless you get lucky and find one that's cheap, LCD monitors made for the
security/surveillance market are generally over-priced, probably just
average quality for above average prices, although they may have some
additional features that are of no interest to you.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2009-04-10, RB wrote:
Wild_Bill wrote:

[ ... ]

I think the market for 10-12" 4:3 aspect ratio monitors was fairly
limited, mostly to commercial equipment, and essentially none were made
as TV/DVD displays before home video equipment transitioned from 4:3
TV/VCRs to widescreen displays for DVDs.

[ ... ]

Bill, my initial search seemed to indicate the things you mention.
I originally posted in hopes someone knew of an obscure surplus seller
that had some suitable special-purpose screens.
The discussion has been interesting. I had not considered the asp[ect
ration being a problem, so that was helpful.

The aspect ratio should *not* be a problem for text only, which
is what you (and I) have from the Compact-5/CNC. It isn't doing any
graphics displays of what the workpiece would look like (not likely with
only a 6502 for brains). At most, your zeros and 'O's will look
rounder. No problem in my book. If it were doing graphics, that would
be a different matter.

But the bottom line is it works now, and the screen in place does fine.
It's just a cheap Magnavox 80 monitor sitting on a very nice machine. It
looks like the add-on it is.

I used a Commodore color monitor for several years, until I got
the nice 8.5" B&W monitor (which looks more industrial), FWIW. I
switched to the free 8.5" monitor to save power and shelf space more
than anything else. I don't care wath it *looks* like, as long as
it works. (I also have not stripped down an re-painted my older machine
tools, and am unlikely to. The work, which is all that matters to me.
(Granted, I've seen a Monarch 10EE painted candy-apple red, but if I had
one like that, I would never use it for fear of spoiling the appearance.
:-)

I really appreciate all the input. It has been informative.
I'll keep looking for something, with a better idea of what I need.

And try the search string and the comments from my just previous
post in this thread. (I have no idea what order your newsreader will
present them to you.) Among other things, there is a nice bare-bones
LCD monitor for which you would need to make a case, and to add a 12V
power supply capable of 1 A of output. You could build that into any
kind of case which you liked.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I don't think that there was any reference made earlier about not needing a
color display, DoN.

That new $22.50 (+11 s/h) 7.9" LCD module you mentioned is a neat little
display.

The Hitachi CRT model is fairly old, maybe 1960s or 70s, since it has
SO-239? (PL-259 connector) connectors for the video signal.
Almost any equipment with BNCs is likely to be newer.

An advantage of the commercial CRT monitors is, that they're almost always
in nice square/flat top steel cases (not curvy plastic consumer cases), so
the top provides a sturdy shelf for other stuff.. a Tachulator or tray for
small tools, or else mounting the monitor by the top panel.
I think the last 10" CRT mono display I got, was $5.. good condition with
video in and pass thru, steel case and front controls (no on-screen-display
menu BS).

The LCD displays' advantages are slim size and light weight, light enough to
attach to a jointed arm or possibly even a microphone gooseneck.

As you've suggested, others should look into local hamfests for electronic
gadgetry.
I started in the 80s and always try to attend the local one-day event (there
were 2 of them, but now just 1 per year). I used to travel a ways to catch
nearby hamfests, but there are fewer to find now (I think eBay is
threatening their existence).
I've also found quite a bit of metalworking tooling at them, but mostly an
amazing variety of electronic gear.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
Of course, he doesn't *need* color. This is a purely B&W video
output. :-)

I don't think you'd want to use a 6" LCD display for your lathe,

Hmm ... depends on how his eyes are for close focus. The screen
is something like 13 lines by 32 characters, so it may well remain
legible. Put it on an arm so it is closer when you are programming.
(It also serves as a DRO when manually moving things with the buttons.

I just checked, and my CRT monitor is 8.5" diagonal. It is on a
shelf above the lathe, with a fluorescent light mounted to the underside
to contribute to work lighting. (There is also a hinged arm one for
spot lighting.

Again -- no problem. There are no graphics here -- just
digits and upper-case only text. Zeros are slashed, and I'm not even
sure whether any likely text uses a letter 'O' anyway. (Perhaps in one
of the other languages supported.) It does not even bother explicitly
showing the decimal point, it is simply assumed that the resolution is
0.001" or 0.01mm. (Hmm ... maybe it is spelled out at the top of the
programming and DRO screens. :-)


I'm still not sure why he needs a LCD monitor instead of a small
CRT monitor. The power consumption is not that different in sizes like
that. And it can be plugged into an outlet on the back of the lathe to
be powered on only when the lathe is switched on.

eBay has a 12" CRT monitor (auction #200294292553) currently for
$48.51 (or best offer).

This one will probably be closed by the time you see this, but
it is a 7" one (#180344067240) which works with PAL and NTSC and has RCA
phono plugs for inputs. (I think that they are confused, however, as
they show two connectors for video in, and one for audio -- the reverse
of the normal with stereo audio. :-) Currently at $52.09 . But it needs
12V DC power input, not the AC line, so unless you have a 12W 12V power
supply on hand, you'll need to get more stuff to use it.

Oh yes -- it is also in Hong Kong. :-)

Hmm ... this one (# 120404335662) looks like what you need,
except that you will need to make a housing for it. $22.50 and in
California.

If you want to look through more of the listings (I'm about 3/4
of the way down the first page of 13 total), you might want to use my
search string to limit the number of hits to something reasonable.

+Video +monitor +small +LCD -camera -Microsoft -computer

Unless you get lucky and find one that's cheap, LCD monitors made for the
security/surveillance market are generally over-priced, probably just
average quality for above average prices, although they may have some
additional features that are of no interest to you.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 03:00:06 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2009-04-09, James Waldby ... wrote:
On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 22:31:31 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote: ...
Just for the fun of it -- let's see what I can remember picking
up at hamfests which might be of interest he

1) B&S 0-6" digital calipers (now not usable because they need
PX-13 mercury cells in a holder which would not be happy with any
modern cell, even if the slightly higher voltage does not harm
it.)
I'll try that someday.
...

A WeinCell MRB625 battery is supposed to be a proper $4 substitute for
a PX-13 mercury cell,

But since the B&S caliper needs *four* of them, that is a $16.00
replacement. (It is a "DIGIT-CAL II", FWIW.) (At least it is better
than some adaptors which were supposed to convert something like a SR357
to fit the PX-13 profile, which were selling for something like $25.00
each. Five Chinese calipers are cheaper enough of those to run the
caliper. :-)

I can't quite parse that last sentence, but get the drift that
the batteries get pricy (even if you buy 12/$40 from earlier link,
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=MRB625-12),
possible costing more than a new cheap caliper.

[snip re shape]

They claim "WeinCell is a revolutionary new zinc/air battery designed
to replace environmentally-unfriendly (banned) mercury batteries. ...
Only WeinCells deliver exact voltage and stable output consistent with
mercury batteries." ... "the WeinCell is not activated until the
pull-tab is removed (removing batteries from equipment and replacing
tabs prolongs battery life)." ...

Snapping off the battery holder, removing two small Phillips
screws, removing the four cells, and relacing the tabs -- certainly
sounds convenient. :-) Well ... three of the four cells are held + side
up, visible through apertures in the holder, but (assuming that is the
surface with the holes to be covered) that still leaves one which
requires the same disassembly sequence.
....

True, putting the tabs back on doesn't sound like an easy fix for
longer battery-life in that caliper. I included that bit in my
earlier post not because it's useful, but because it's amusing
that the seller suggests it. However, it might be practical to
store the caliper in a box purged with nitrogen, argon, or CO2.

Since this does not require the stable voltage that an exposure
meter (or one built into a camera), I'm more likely to machine a
replacement holder using two CR3032 3V cells, with a silicon diode and
two germanium diodes in series with them (for a total of about 1 V drop,
since four mercury cells add up to 5 V, and the CR3032s are 3V each.)
I'll first check how forgiving it is using a bench power supply to apply
a full 6 V (working my way up from 5 V) and see whether it has problems
with that.
[snip rest]

Depending on what the current draw is and how stable it is, you
might be able to use something like the dual-diode BAV199 in a
0.05"x0.12" SOT-23 package. Under a milliamp, the drop per diode
would be about right. Or perhaps use a couple of Schottky diodes
at about .4V each, a little low. Of course if you've got those
germanium diodes already, wouldn't 3 in series be about right?
(Per, eg, (http://baec.tripod.com/articles/crystal.htm) If
the current doesn't vary, just use a resistor.

--
jiw

On 2009-04-15, James Waldby wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 03:00:06 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2009-04-09, James Waldby ... wrote:
On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 22:31:31 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote: ...
Just for the fun of it -- let's see what I can remember picking
up at hamfests which might be of interest he

1) B&S 0-6" digital calipers (now not usable because they need
PX-13 mercury cells in a holder which would not be happy with any
modern cell, even if the slightly higher voltage does not harm
it.)
I'll try that someday.
...

A WeinCell MRB625 battery is supposed to be a proper $4 substitute for
a PX-13 mercury cell,

But since the B&S caliper needs *four* of them, that is a $16.00
replacement. (It is a "DIGIT-CAL II", FWIW.) (At least it is better
than some adaptors which were supposed to convert something like a SR357
to fit the PX-13 profile, which were selling for something like $25.00
each. Five Chinese calipers are cheaper enough of those to run the
caliper. :-)

I can't quite parse that last sentence, but get the drift that
the batteries get pricy (even if you buy 12/$40 from earlier link,

The sentence *should* have read:

Five Chinese calipers are cheaper than enough of those (the $25.00
adaptors) to run the caliper.

http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=MRB625-12),
possible costing more than a new cheap caliper.

Yes.

[snip re shape]

[ ... ]

mercury batteries." ... "the WeinCell is not activated until the
pull-tab is removed (removing batteries from equipment and replacing
tabs prolongs battery life)." ...

Snapping off the battery holder, removing two small Phillips
screws, removing the four cells, and relacing the tabs -- certainly
sounds convenient. :-) Well ... three of the four cells are held + side
up, visible through apertures in the holder, but (assuming that is the
surface with the holes to be covered) that still leaves one which
requires the same disassembly sequence.
...

True, putting the tabs back on doesn't sound like an easy fix for
longer battery-life in that caliper. I included that bit in my
earlier post not because it's useful, but because it's amusing
that the seller suggests it. However, it might be practical to
store the caliper in a box purged with nitrogen, argon, or CO2.

Hmm ... if I had a TIG welding setup, the argon would be a good
choice (along with machining up a metal case with an O-ring seal and a
fill and vent valve). I wonder what would happen should I pump it down
to a fairly good vacuum (other than it leaking air back in over time).
I wonder whether the cells are allergic to vacuum.

Since this does not require the stable voltage that an exposure
meter (or one built into a camera), I'm more likely to machine a
replacement holder using two CR3032 3V cells, with a silicon diode and
two germanium diodes in series with them (for a total of about 1 V drop,
since four mercury cells add up to 5 V, and the CR3032s are 3V each.)
I'll first check how forgiving it is using a bench power supply to apply
a full 6 V (working my way up from 5 V) and see whether it has problems
with that.
[snip rest]

Depending on what the current draw is and how stable it is, you
might be able to use something like the dual-diode BAV199 in a
0.05"x0.12" SOT-23 package.

Hmm ... I've not measured the current draw yet -- but I suspect
that there will be a significant variation from displaying '1's to
displaying '8's, since it is a LED readout, not LCD like most more
recent ones.

Under a milliamp, the drop per diode
would be about right. Or perhaps use a couple of Schottky diodes
at about .4V each, a little low. Of course if you've got those
germanium diodes already, wouldn't 3 in series be about right?

About, yes.

(Per, eg, (http://baec.tripod.com/articles/crystal.htm) If
the current doesn't vary, just use a resistor.

Hmm ... he is using unfamiliar diode part numbers, except for
the mention of the US 1N34A (which I have used in the past).

The mention of the gold bonded diodes reminded me of my first
employer -- Transitron -- who got their start in the semiconductor
industry by making good quality gold bonded diodes. I *think* that they
actually invented the process. At the time, they were used heavily in
logic circuits by the then growing mainframe computer industry. By the
time I was working for them, they were making lots of silicon diodes and
transistors -- in competition with Texas Instruments. I also remember
interesting variants on the diodes called "stabistors" -- made
specifically for the stability of their forward voltage drop -- and the
temperature coefficient of that forward voltage. They were combined
with a zener diode with the opposite temperature coefficient, and a
selected transistor to make what was sold as a "ref-amp" (reference
amplifier) which had a precise and stable forward voltage drop from the
base out the emitter, and through the zener and the stabistors to
provide a very stable reference, and to amplify any variation applied to
the base to control a voltage regulator. The transistors, zeners, and
stabistors were all tested in large racks under silicone oil at -50C,
50C, and 150C, and it was fed into a very expensive (at the time)
mainframe computer to spit out selections of which ones would give the
most stable results. (Sometimes, some would give poor results at
intermediate temperatures, as I remember having to test some returned
units as they were cycled through the full range from -50 C to +150 C,
and which meant that I had to use a mix of silicone oils, as that used
at -50 C would boil at +150 C, and that used at +150 C would become
rather hard silicone grease at -50 C. :-)

I think that the company name is still around, but that they
don't make semiconductors now.

They also had another device -- a 4-lead device in a TO-5 can
which they called the "binistor". It was a mesa style silicon
transistor with an extra lead bonded wrong -- overlapping two zones, and
it behaved as a bistable device. So -- you could make a flip-flop with
a single device -- before integrated circuits allowed it in a single
chip. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 01:49:36 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2009-04-15, James Waldby ... wrote:
On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 03:00:06 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2009-04-09, James Waldby ... wrote:
On Thu, 09 Apr 2009 22:31:31 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
[...] B&S 0-6" digital calipers (now not usable because
they need PX-13 mercury cells in a holder which would not
be happy with any modern cell [...]
A WeinCell MRB625 battery is supposed to be a proper $4 substitute
for a PX-13 mercury cell,

But since the B&S caliper needs *four* of them, that is a $16.00
replacement. (It is a "DIGIT-CAL II", FWIW.) [big snip]
[...] "the WeinCell is not activated until the
pull-tab is removed (removing batteries from equipment and replacing
tabs prolongs battery life)." ...

Snapping off the battery holder, removing two small Phillips
screws, removing the four cells, and relacing the tabs -- certainly
sounds convenient. :-) Well ... three of the four cells are held +
side up, visible through apertures in the holder, but (assuming that
is the surface with the holes to be covered) that still leaves one
which requires the same disassembly sequence.

True, putting the tabs back on doesn't sound like an easy fix for
longer battery-life in that caliper. I included that bit in my earlier
post not because it's useful, but because it's amusing that the seller
suggests it. However, it might be practical to store the caliper in a
box purged with nitrogen, argon, or CO2.

Hmm ... if I had a TIG welding setup, the argon would be a good
choice (along with machining up a metal case with an O-ring seal and a
fill and vent valve). I wonder what would happen should I pump it down
to a fairly good vacuum (other than it leaking air back in over time). I
wonder whether the cells are allergic to vacuum.

I thought of vacuum also. A minute or two with google didn't answer
that question, although it gave lots of links to old hearing aids that
used a vacuum-tube rather than transistor, and vacuum-cleaners for
hearing aids, and remarks that putting the tab back on a zinc-air
hearing-aid battery apparently doesn't extend its life. You could see
if a WeinCell survives vacuum ok and let us know

[...]
Depending on what the current draw is and how stable it is, you might
be able to use something like the dual-diode BAV199 in a 0.05"x0.12"
SOT-23 package. [to drop 6V from 2 li cells to 5V]

Hmm ... I've not measured the current draw yet -- but I suspect
that there will be a significant variation from displaying '1's to
displaying '8's, since it is a LED readout, not LCD like most more
recent ones.

I misunderstood that earlier, and thought the LED referred to was used
in position sensing, which would have a more stable current. But with
an LED display, not only could there be large variations in current, it
also might over-tax 2032 coin cells. Perhaps consider using four NiMH
AAA's, for example lined up in a tube attached to the underside of the
caliper. That would deliver about 5V through most of the discharge
curve. Or maybe find a flat rectangular cell-phone battery the right
size to attach on the back of the caliper, and use an LDO regulator
(like TC10145.0VCT713) to get 5V.

[...] Of course if you've got those germanium
diodes already, wouldn't 3 in series be about right?

About, yes.

(Per, eg, (http://baec.tripod.com/articles/crystal.htm) [...]

Hmm ... he is using unfamiliar diode part numbers, except for
the mention of the US 1N34A (which I have used in the past).

The mention of the gold bonded diodes reminded me of my first
employer -- Transitron -- who got their start in the semiconductor
industry by making good quality gold bonded diodes. I *think* that they
actually invented the process. At the time, they were used heavily in
logic circuits by the then growing mainframe computer industry. By the
time I was working for them, they were making lots of silicon diodes and
transistors -- in competition with Texas Instruments. I also remember
interesting variants on the diodes called "stabistors" -- made
specifically for the stability of their forward voltage drop -- and the
temperature coefficient of that forward voltage. They were combined
with a zener diode with the opposite temperature coefficient, and a
selected transistor to make what was sold as a "ref-amp" (reference
amplifier) which had a precise and stable forward voltage drop from the
base out the emitter, and through the zener and the stabistors to
provide a very stable reference, and to amplify any variation applied to
the base to control a voltage regulator. The transistors, zeners, and
stabistors were all tested in large racks under silicone oil at -50C,
50C, and 150C, and it was fed into a very expensive (at the time)
mainframe computer to spit out selections of which ones would give the
most stable results. (Sometimes, some would give poor results at
intermediate temperatures, as I remember having to test some returned
units as they were cycled through the full range from -50 C to +150 C,
and which meant that I had to use a mix of silicone oils, as that used
at -50 C would boil at +150 C, and that used at +150 C would become
rather hard silicone grease at -50 C. :-)

I think that the company name is still around, but that they
don't make semiconductors now.

They also had another device -- a 4-lead device in a TO-5 can
which they called the "binistor". It was a mesa style silicon
transistor with an extra lead bonded wrong -- overlapping two zones, and
it behaved as a bistable device. So -- you could make a flip-flop with
a single device -- before integrated circuits allowed it in a single
chip. :-)

I've heard of Transitron and stabistors, but don't recall binistors, even
though I've got some 4-leaded parts with specs like that, from ca. 1966.
It sounds like Transitron may have been an interesting place to work!

'Til next week -- off to Arches and Canyonlands tomorrow --
--
jiw

The "References: " header got too long. I've snipped it in a
different editor.

On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 01:49:36 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2009-04-15, James Waldby ... wrote:

[ ... ]

Hmm ... if I had a TIG welding setup, the argon would be a good
choice (along with machining up a metal case with an O-ring seal and a
fill and vent valve). I wonder what would happen should I pump it down
to a fairly good vacuum (other than it leaking air back in over time). I
wonder whether the cells are allergic to vacuum.

I thought of vacuum also. A minute or two with google didn't answer
that question, although it gave lots of links to old hearing aids that
used a vacuum-tube rather than transistor, and vacuum-cleaners for
hearing aids, and remarks that putting the tab back on a zinc-air
hearing-aid battery apparently doesn't extend its life. You could see
if a WeinCell survives vacuum ok and let us know

Probably not -- at least not now. I am fighting a sore throat
which is a follow-on to Bacterial Conjunctivitis between my first and
second Cataract surgery. (At least I don't have to use my throat to
type. :-)

[...]
Depending on what the current draw is and how stable it is, you might
be able to use something like the dual-diode BAV199 in a 0.05"x0.12"
SOT-23 package. [to drop 6V from 2 li cells to 5V]

Hmm ... I've not measured the current draw yet -- but I suspect
that there will be a significant variation from displaying '1's to
displaying '8's, since it is a LED readout, not LCD like most more
recent ones.

I misunderstood that earlier, and thought the LED referred to was used
in position sensing, which would have a more stable current.

That was being used too.

But with
an LED display, not only could there be large variations in current, it
also might over-tax 2032 coin cells.

Rather small LED readouts, so it may not be too bad. It remains
to be seen when I feel up to testing the current from a lab bench
supply.

Perhaps consider using four NiMH
AAA's, for example lined up in a tube attached to the underside of the
caliper.

Ugly! And awkward to handle.

That would deliver about 5V through most of the discharge
curve. Or maybe find a flat rectangular cell-phone battery the right
size to attach on the back of the caliper, and use an LDO regulator
(like TC10145.0VCT713) to get 5V.

That might work. But I would want a switch to turn off the
regulator between uses.

[ ... ]

The mention of the gold bonded diodes reminded me of my first
employer -- Transitron -- who got their start in the semiconductor

[ ... ]

They also had another device -- a 4-lead device in a TO-5 can
which they called the "binistor". It was a mesa style silicon
transistor with an extra lead bonded wrong -- overlapping two zones, and
it behaved as a bistable device. So -- you could make a flip-flop with
a single device -- before integrated circuits allowed it in a single
chip. :-)

I've heard of Transitron and stabistors, but don't recall binistors, even
though I've got some 4-leaded parts with specs like that, from ca. 1966.

This would have been about 1960. IIRC, the part number was 3N35
or 3N31 -- something close to that.

It sounds like Transitron may have been an interesting place to work!

It was. But unfortunately, it was a summer job.

And the discovery of the binistor was through an accidental
mis-bonding and someone seeing whether it could be salvaged by prper
re-bonding. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.