Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

On Feb 4, 1:38 pm, "Stuart Fields" wrote:
Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

What increased crime rate in Australia? - reference please.

Andrew VK3BFA.

On Feb 4, 7:57 pm, wrote:
On Feb 4, 1:38 pm, "Stuart Fields" wrote:

Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

What increased crime rate in Australia? - reference please.

Andrew VK3BFA.

And what happened to the you tube video? - says its been pulled as the
NRA claims copyright. The NRA doing videos on British and Australian
crime? - havent they got enuff of their own to worry about?

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:57:15 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Feb 4, 1:38 pm, "Stuart Fields" wrote:
Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

What increased crime rate in Australia? - reference please.

Andrew VK3BFA.


Lets try these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-DaF-sopE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoQTdVlxkA


Same video.....different titles. This is one that is going to be hard
for the Brits to remove from YouTube...its everywhere.

Then watch these.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5kNJTC26Qo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq7rgWMFhIQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITfZ5D_DqhM&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKLX6...eature=related

G




The troops with the flashing lights on their helmets and vehicles are
the Good Guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQhjaCgAS80


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afv5el1-nhg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeEImIjx_Ks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je1v8...eature=related




"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:52:59 -0800, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:57:15 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Feb 4, 1:38 pm, "Stuart Fields" wrote:
Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

What increased crime rate in Australia? - reference please.

Andrew VK3BFA.


Lets try these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-DaF-sopE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoQTdVlxkA


Same video.....different titles. This is one that is going to be hard
for the Brits to remove from YouTube...its everywhere.

I think he wanted something more like this, Gunner:

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...raliaguns.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21902

From http://www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=78

Australia -- Licensing of gun owners was imposed in 1973, each handgun
requires a separate license, and self-defense is not considered a
legitimate reason to have a firearm. Registration of firearms was
imposed in 1985. In May 1996 semi-automatic center-fire rifles and
many semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns were prohibited. As of
Oct. 2000, about 660,000 privately owned firearms had been confiscated
and destroyed. However, according to the Australian Institute of
Criminology, between 1996-1998 assaults rose 16 percent, armed
robberies rose 73 percent, and unlawful entries rose eight percent.
Murders increased slightly in 1997 and decreased slightly in 1998.
(Jacob Sullum, "Guns down under," Reason, Australia, p. 10, 10/1/00)
For more information on Australian crime trends, see
http://www.nraila.org/research/20000...Guns-001.shtml.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/arch...p/t-69835.html

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/auresult.html

So, what do you say, Andrew?

--
Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what
to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
-- George S. Patton

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:52:59 -0800, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:57:15 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Feb 4, 1:38 pm, "Stuart Fields" wrote:
Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of
Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

What increased crime rate in Australia? - reference please.

Andrew VK3BFA.


Lets try these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-DaF-sopE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoQTdVlxkA


Same video.....different titles. This is one that is going to be hard
for the Brits to remove from YouTube...its everywhere.

I think he wanted something more like this, Gunner:

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...raliaguns.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21902

From http://www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=78

Australia -- Licensing of gun owners was imposed in 1973, each handgun
requires a separate license, and self-defense is not considered a
legitimate reason to have a firearm. Registration of firearms was
imposed in 1985. In May 1996 semi-automatic center-fire rifles and
many semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns were prohibited. As of
Oct. 2000, about 660,000 privately owned firearms had been confiscated
and destroyed. However, according to the Australian Institute of
Criminology, between 1996-1998 assaults rose 16 percent, armed
robberies rose 73 percent, and unlawful entries rose eight percent.
Murders increased slightly in 1997 and decreased slightly in 1998.
(Jacob Sullum, "Guns down under," Reason, Australia, p. 10, 10/1/00)
For more information on Australian crime trends, see
http://www.nraila.org/research/20000...Guns-001.shtml.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/arch...p/t-69835.html

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/auresult.html

So, what do you say, Andrew?
Larry: I'm impressed. I think that Andrew may have been looking for a
glass of water and you presented him with the business end of a fire hose.
It doesn't take much thought to know that people who already don't give a
damn for others rights and property are going to obey the gun laws.
Stripping the guns from law abiding citizens only leaves guns in the hands
of non-law abiding citizens. To wit: The possesion of a machine gun
without the appropriate FFL has been illegal for some time in the US.
However it is possible to buy one off the black market in LA. Note: The
home owner in the UK utube video was actually convicted of murder for
protecting himself and is still in jail while one of the burglars is out and
wanting to sue the home owner. This seems to make it open season for the
crooks to prey on home owners. The home owners don't dare respond to the
crooks. If this makes sense to anyone out there, how about we work to find
a way to segregate our selves into a state or country that doesn't believe
in self defense and another that firmly believes in the rights of an
individual to defend himself. That way both groups can be happy.

Stu

"Stuart Fields" wrote in message
...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:52:59 -0800, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:57:15 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Feb 4, 1:38 pm, "Stuart Fields" wrote:
Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of
Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

What increased crime rate in Australia? - reference please.

Andrew VK3BFA.


Lets try these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-DaF-sopE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoQTdVlxkA


Same video.....different titles. This is one that is going to be hard
for the Brits to remove from YouTube...its everywhere.

I think he wanted something more like this, Gunner:

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...raliaguns.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21902

From http://www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=78

Australia -- Licensing of gun owners was imposed in 1973, each handgun
requires a separate license, and self-defense is not considered a
legitimate reason to have a firearm. Registration of firearms was
imposed in 1985. In May 1996 semi-automatic center-fire rifles and
many semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns were prohibited. As of
Oct. 2000, about 660,000 privately owned firearms had been confiscated
and destroyed. However, according to the Australian Institute of
Criminology, between 1996-1998 assaults rose 16 percent, armed
robberies rose 73 percent, and unlawful entries rose eight percent.
Murders increased slightly in 1997 and decreased slightly in 1998.
(Jacob Sullum, "Guns down under," Reason, Australia, p. 10, 10/1/00)
For more information on Australian crime trends, see
http://www.nraila.org/research/20000...Guns-001.shtml.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/arch...p/t-69835.html

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/auresult.html

So, what do you say, Andrew?
Larry: I'm impressed. I think that Andrew may have been looking for a
glass of water and you presented him with the business end of a fire hose.
It doesn't take much thought to know that people who already don't give a
damn for others rights and property are going to obey the gun laws.
Stripping the guns from law abiding citizens only leaves guns in the hands
of non-law abiding citizens. To wit: The possesion of a machine gun
without the appropriate FFL has been illegal for some time in the US.
However it is possible to buy one off the black market in LA. Note: The
home owner in the UK utube video was actually convicted of murder for
protecting himself and is still in jail while one of the burglars is out
and wanting to sue the home owner. This seems to make it open season for
the crooks to prey on home owners. The home owners don't dare respond to
the crooks. If this makes sense to anyone out there, how about we work to
find a way to segregate our selves into a state or country that doesn't
believe in self defense and another that firmly believes in the rights of
an individual to defend himself. That way both groups can be happy.

Stu


Who will get a machine gun for me on the black market? I think my choice
would be a BAR, MP5, or first choice would be an American 180.

"Buerste" wrote in message
...

"Stuart Fields" wrote in message
...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:52:59 -0800, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:57:15 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Feb 4, 1:38 pm, "Stuart Fields" wrote:
Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of
Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

What increased crime rate in Australia? - reference please.

Andrew VK3BFA.


Lets try these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-DaF-sopE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoQTdVlxkA


Same video.....different titles. This is one that is going to be hard
for the Brits to remove from YouTube...its everywhere.

I think he wanted something more like this, Gunner:

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...raliaguns.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21902

From http://www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=78

Australia -- Licensing of gun owners was imposed in 1973, each handgun
requires a separate license, and self-defense is not considered a
legitimate reason to have a firearm. Registration of firearms was
imposed in 1985. In May 1996 semi-automatic center-fire rifles and
many semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns were prohibited. As of
Oct. 2000, about 660,000 privately owned firearms had been confiscated
and destroyed. However, according to the Australian Institute of
Criminology, between 1996-1998 assaults rose 16 percent, armed
robberies rose 73 percent, and unlawful entries rose eight percent.
Murders increased slightly in 1997 and decreased slightly in 1998.
(Jacob Sullum, "Guns down under," Reason, Australia, p. 10, 10/1/00)
For more information on Australian crime trends, see
http://www.nraila.org/research/20000...Guns-001.shtml.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/arch...p/t-69835.html

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/auresult.html

So, what do you say, Andrew?
Larry: I'm impressed. I think that Andrew may have been looking for a
glass of water and you presented him with the business end of a fire
hose. It doesn't take much thought to know that people who already don't
give a damn for others rights and property are going to obey the gun
laws. Stripping the guns from law abiding citizens only leaves guns in
the hands of non-law abiding citizens. To wit: The possesion of a
machine gun without the appropriate FFL has been illegal for some time in
the US. However it is possible to buy one off the black market in LA.
Note: The home owner in the UK utube video was actually convicted of
murder for protecting himself and is still in jail while one of the
burglars is out and wanting to sue the home owner. This seems to make it
open season for the crooks to prey on home owners. The home owners don't
dare respond to the crooks. If this makes sense to anyone out there, how
about we work to find a way to segregate our selves into a state or
country that doesn't believe in self defense and another that firmly
believes in the rights of an individual to defend himself. That way both
groups can be happy.

Stu


Who will get a machine gun for me on the black market? I think my choice
would be a BAR, MP5, or first choice would be an American 180.

I sure don't want to get involved, but I've talked to more than one guy who
claimed to have his own AK-47 and photos of him shooting it. With all of
the guns in Afganistan and other places there are thousands and hundreds of
thousands of guns out there. Just watch TV every man-jack in Afganistan
seems to have whatever he wants with plenty of ammunition. With a little
research, I'm sure that you can find a source.

Buerste wrote:
"Stuart Fields" wrote in message
...
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:52:59 -0800, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:57:15 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Feb 4, 1:38 pm, "Stuart Fields" wrote:
Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of
Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE
What increased crime rate in Australia? - reference please.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Lets try these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-DaF-sopE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoQTdVlxkA


Same video.....different titles. This is one that is going to be hard
for the Brits to remove from YouTube...its everywhere.
I think he wanted something more like this, Gunner:

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...raliaguns.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21902

From http://www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=78

Australia -- Licensing of gun owners was imposed in 1973, each handgun
requires a separate license, and self-defense is not considered a
legitimate reason to have a firearm. Registration of firearms was
imposed in 1985. In May 1996 semi-automatic center-fire rifles and
many semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns were prohibited. As of
Oct. 2000, about 660,000 privately owned firearms had been confiscated
and destroyed. However, according to the Australian Institute of
Criminology, between 1996-1998 assaults rose 16 percent, armed
robberies rose 73 percent, and unlawful entries rose eight percent.
Murders increased slightly in 1997 and decreased slightly in 1998.
(Jacob Sullum, "Guns down under," Reason, Australia, p. 10, 10/1/00)
For more information on Australian crime trends, see
http://www.nraila.org/research/20000...Guns-001.shtml.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/arch...p/t-69835.html

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/auresult.html

So, what do you say, Andrew?
Larry: I'm impressed. I think that Andrew may have been looking for a
glass of water and you presented him with the business end of a fire hose.
It doesn't take much thought to know that people who already don't give a
damn for others rights and property are going to obey the gun laws.
Stripping the guns from law abiding citizens only leaves guns in the hands
of non-law abiding citizens. To wit: The possesion of a machine gun
without the appropriate FFL has been illegal for some time in the US.
However it is possible to buy one off the black market in LA. Note: The
home owner in the UK utube video was actually convicted of murder for
protecting himself and is still in jail while one of the burglars is out
and wanting to sue the home owner. This seems to make it open season for
the crooks to prey on home owners. The home owners don't dare respond to
the crooks. If this makes sense to anyone out there, how about we work to
find a way to segregate our selves into a state or country that doesn't
believe in self defense and another that firmly believes in the rights of
an individual to defend himself. That way both groups can be happy.

Stu


Who will get a machine gun for me on the black market? I think my choice
would be a BAR, MP5, or first choice would be an American 180.



Why black market? Pay the Federal transfer tax and file the paperwork
and (if you live in a state that doesn't ban them) you can buy a machine
gun yourself. Not a big problem.

--
Steve W.

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 20:11:14 -0500, "Buerste" wrote:



Who will get a machine gun for me on the black market? I think my choice
would be a BAR, MP5, or first choice would be an American 180.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/machineguns.html

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 20:11:14 -0500, "Buerste" wrote:




Who will get a machine gun for me on the black market? I think my choice
would be a BAR, MP5, or first choice would be an American 180.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEOq-odiEss&NR=1

On Feb 5, 12:26*am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:52:59 -0800, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:



On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:57:15 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Feb 4, 1:38 pm, "Stuart Fields" wrote:
Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. *Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

What *increased crime rate in Australia? - reference please.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Lets try these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-DaF-sopE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoQTdVlxkA

Same video.....different titles. *This is one that is going to be hard
for the Brits to remove from YouTube...its everywhere.

I think he wanted something more like this, Gunner:

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...raliaguns.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21902

Fromhttp://www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=78

Australia -- Licensing of gun owners was imposed in 1973, each handgun
requires a separate license, and self-defense is not considered a
legitimate reason to have a firearm. Registration of firearms was
imposed in 1985. In May 1996 semi-automatic center-fire rifles and
many semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns were prohibited. As of
Oct. 2000, about 660,000 privately owned firearms had been confiscated
and destroyed. However, according to the Australian Institute of
Criminology, between 1996-1998 assaults rose 16 percent, armed
robberies rose 73 percent, and unlawful entries rose eight percent.
Murders increased slightly in 1997 and decreased slightly in 1998.
(Jacob Sullum, "Guns down under," Reason, Australia, p. 10, 10/1/00)
For more information on Australian crime trends, seewww.nraila.org/research/20000329-BanningGuns-001.shtml.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/arch...p/t-69835.html

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/auresult.html

So, what do you say, Andrew?

--
Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what
to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- George S. Patton

I say "Wow...thats pretty amazing" - glad to see the Yanks keep tab on
whats happening here, I had no real interest and would have thought
that if it was that bad, it would be on the news as a lead
item......after all, cats stuck up trees get on the evening news....

And Dons right - you used a firehouse, I stand corrected - although
why do I feel the need to get out my ancient copy of "How to Lie with
Statistics"......

And, being a right cynical kinda guy, I didnt bother to look at
Gunners references,,but did Google NRAILA -and found...

Its the American NRA, what credibility it has with reference to
Australia? - I don't know, but several references, notably Wikipedia,
claim that the geographically challenged NRA "research" people got
confused between Austria and Australia....easy to do , its only
spelling and whats the difference anyway....

So - this will drag on for ever, Gunner abstracting references of
dubious quality but voluminous quantity, some of you unquestioning
anything you read that supports your particular hobby horse - not just
for guns, but for any subject. (not that I would ever do anything like
that, oh no....g)

someone tells you something, you question it
someone gives you information hand written, you question it.
if its a computer printout, it must be true.
if its on the internet.....what happened to the Bull**** Filters, why
do they get turned off all the time?

Andrew VK3BFA.

wrote in message
...
On Feb 5, 12:26 am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:52:59 -0800, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:



On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:57:15 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Feb 4, 1:38 pm, "Stuart Fields" wrote:
Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of
Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

What increased crime rate in Australia? - reference please.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Lets try these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-DaF-sopE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoQTdVlxkA

Same video.....different titles. This is one that is going to be hard
for the Brits to remove from YouTube...its everywhere.

I think he wanted something more like this, Gunner:

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...raliaguns.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21902

Fromhttp://www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=78

Australia -- Licensing of gun owners was imposed in 1973, each handgun
requires a separate license, and self-defense is not considered a
legitimate reason to have a firearm. Registration of firearms was
imposed in 1985. In May 1996 semi-automatic center-fire rifles and
many semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns were prohibited. As of
Oct. 2000, about 660,000 privately owned firearms had been confiscated
and destroyed. However, according to the Australian Institute of
Criminology, between 1996-1998 assaults rose 16 percent, armed
robberies rose 73 percent, and unlawful entries rose eight percent.
Murders increased slightly in 1997 and decreased slightly in 1998.
(Jacob Sullum, "Guns down under," Reason, Australia, p. 10, 10/1/00)
For more information on Australian crime trends,
seewww.nraila.org/research/20000329-BanningGuns-001.shtml.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/arch...p/t-69835.html

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/auresult.html

So, what do you say, Andrew?

--
Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what
to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
-- George S. Patton

I say "Wow...thats pretty amazing" - glad to see the Yanks keep tab on
whats happening here, I had no real interest and would have thought
that if it was that bad, it would be on the news as a lead
item......after all, cats stuck up trees get on the evening news....

And Dons right - you used a firehouse, I stand corrected - although
why do I feel the need to get out my ancient copy of "How to Lie with
Statistics"......

And, being a right cynical kinda guy, I didnt bother to look at
Gunners references,,but did Google NRAILA -and found...

Its the American NRA, what credibility it has with reference to
Australia? - I don't know, but several references, notably Wikipedia,
claim that the geographically challenged NRA "research" people got
confused between Austria and Australia....easy to do , its only
spelling and whats the difference anyway....

So - this will drag on for ever, Gunner abstracting references of
dubious quality but voluminous quantity, some of you unquestioning
anything you read that supports your particular hobby horse - not just
for guns, but for any subject. (not that I would ever do anything like
that, oh no....g)

someone tells you something, you question it
someone gives you information hand written, you question it.
if its a computer printout, it must be true.
if its on the internet.....what happened to the Bull**** Filters, why
do they get turned off all the time?

Andrew VK3BFA.

Andrew: I agree not to take every thing output by computer as gospel.
However, think about it. Taking guns from law abiding citizens does little
if anything to disarm the non law abiding citizens. That makes just common
sense. If the statistics agree with common sense and everyday experience,
then just maybe the statistics are providing a numerical measure of what
common sense implies.
Other examples of ill thought out legal actions: Making booze illegal in
the US only generated a new illegal industry. Making drugs illegal has done
the same thing. Making private ownership of guns will do the same thing.
People who do not respect the laws aren't going to worry about it being
illegal to have one. Dis-arming private citizens, in my mind makes them
softer targets for crooks.

Stu

On Feb 3, 9:38*pm, "Stuart Fields" wrote:
Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. *Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

It just struck me- a bunch of guys with gun-making machine tools
really never have to worry about not having a legal gun, they just
have to worry about getting caught with an illegal one.


Dave

wrote in message
...
On Feb 5, 12:26 am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:52:59 -0800, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:



On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:57:15 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Feb 4, 1:38 pm, "Stuart Fields" wrote:
Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of
Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

What increased crime rate in Australia? - reference please.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Lets try these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-DaF-sopE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoQTdVlxkA

Same video.....different titles. This is one that is going to be hard
for the Brits to remove from YouTube...its everywhere.

I think he wanted something more like this, Gunner:

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...raliaguns.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21902

Fromhttp://www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=78

Australia -- Licensing of gun owners was imposed in 1973, each handgun
requires a separate license, and self-defense is not considered a
legitimate reason to have a firearm. Registration of firearms was
imposed in 1985. In May 1996 semi-automatic center-fire rifles and
many semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns were prohibited. As of
Oct. 2000, about 660,000 privately owned firearms had been confiscated
and destroyed. However, according to the Australian Institute of
Criminology, between 1996-1998 assaults rose 16 percent, armed
robberies rose 73 percent, and unlawful entries rose eight percent.
Murders increased slightly in 1997 and decreased slightly in 1998.
(Jacob Sullum, "Guns down under," Reason, Australia, p. 10, 10/1/00)
For more information on Australian crime trends,
seewww.nraila.org/research/20000329-BanningGuns-001.shtml.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/arch...p/t-69835.html

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/auresult.html

So, what do you say, Andrew?

--
Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what
to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
-- George S. Patton

I say "Wow...thats pretty amazing" - glad to see the Yanks keep tab on
whats happening here, I had no real interest and would have thought
that if it was that bad, it would be on the news as a lead
item......after all, cats stuck up trees get on the evening news....

And Dons right - you used a firehouse, I stand corrected - although
why do I feel the need to get out my ancient copy of "How to Lie with
Statistics"......

Did you mean "fire hose" there?

I always try to provide more than one link because someone invariably
doesn't like at least one of them. shrug


And, being a right cynical kinda guy, I didnt bother to look at
Gunners references,,but did Google NRAILA -and found...

Its the American NRA, what credibility it has with reference to
Australia? - I don't know, but several references, notably Wikipedia,
claim that the geographically challenged NRA "research" people got
confused between Austria and Australia....easy to do , its only
spelling and whats the difference anyway....

So, are you disputing any (all?) of the data? What did you stand
corrected upon?

I see BBC broadcasts which occasionally show me the reality of the
world happenings that the Big 3 TV networks don't bother to show us
here in this country. Could yours be similarly bothered by political
skewing?


So - this will drag on for ever, Gunner abstracting references of
dubious quality but voluminous quantity, some of you unquestioning
anything you read that supports your particular hobby horse - not just
for guns, but for any subject. (not that I would ever do anything like
that, oh no....g)

g


someone tells you something, you question it
someone gives you information hand written, you question it.
if its a computer printout, it must be true.
if its on the internet.....what happened to the Bull**** Filters, why
do they get turned off all the time?

g Yeah, it's getting harder and harder to find credible data on the
Net. The nice thing is that you can check so many resources against
the others, finally coming to -some- kind synthesis of reality if not
the gods' honest truth. (No, that apostrophe is where it's supposed
to be. Crom, Odin, Buddha, et al would have wanted it that way.)

--
Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what
to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
-- George S. Patton

"Steve W." wrote:

Why black market? Pay the Federal transfer tax and file the paperwork
and (if you live in a state that doesn't ban them) you can buy a machine
gun yourself. Not a big problem.

Well the supply is limited. Only registered MGs that were papered before a certain date
are in the legal market. Not cheap.

Wes

wrote:

It just struck me- a bunch of guys with gun-making machine tools
really never have to worry about not having a legal gun, they just
have to worry about getting caught with an illegal one.

Tyler Durden: The first rule of Fight Club is - you do not talk about Fight Club. The
second rule of Fight Club is - you DO NOT talk about Fight Club.

On Feb 6, 3:41*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Feb 5, 12:26 am, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 02:52:59 -0800, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 00:57:15 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Feb 4, 1:38 pm, "Stuart Fields" wrote:
Here is a website with a video that shows what at least a number of
Brits
think about their "Benevolent" governments disarming them. Note the
increased crime rate that is similar to that reported in Australia..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

What increased crime rate in Australia? - reference please.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Lets try these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-DaF-sopE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQoQTdVlxkA

Same video.....different titles. This is one that is going to be hard
for the Brits to remove from YouTube...its everywhere.

I think he wanted something more like this, Gunner:

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusi...raliaguns.html

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21902

Fromhttp://www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=78

Australia -- Licensing of gun owners was imposed in 1973, each handgun
requires a separate license, and self-defense is not considered a
legitimate reason to have a firearm. Registration of firearms was
imposed in 1985. In May 1996 semi-automatic center-fire rifles and
many semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns were prohibited. As of
Oct. 2000, about 660,000 privately owned firearms had been confiscated
and destroyed. However, according to the Australian Institute of
Criminology, between 1996-1998 assaults rose 16 percent, armed
robberies rose 73 percent, and unlawful entries rose eight percent.
Murders increased slightly in 1997 and decreased slightly in 1998.
(Jacob Sullum, "Guns down under," Reason, Australia, p. 10, 10/1/00)
For more information on Australian crime trends,
seewww.nraila.org/research/20000329-BanningGuns-001.shtml.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/arch...p/t-69835.html

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/auresult.html

So, what do you say, Andrew?

--
Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what
to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
-- George S. Patton

I say "Wow...thats pretty amazing" - glad to see the Yanks keep tab on
whats happening here, I had no real interest and would have thought
that if it was that bad, it would be on the news as a lead
item......after all, cats stuck up trees get on the evening news....

And Dons right - you used a firehouse, I stand corrected - although
why do I feel the need to get out my ancient copy of "How to Lie with
Statistics"......

Did you mean "fire hose" there? *

I always try to provide more than one link because someone invariably
doesn't like at least one of them. *shrug

And, being a right cynical kinda guy, I didnt bother to look at
Gunners references,,but did Google NRAILA -and found...

Its the American NRA, *what credibility it has with reference to
Australia? - *I don't know, but several references, notably Wikipedia,
claim that the geographically challenged NRA "research" people got
confused between Austria and Australia....easy to do , its only
spelling and whats the difference anyway....

So, are you disputing any (all?) of the data? *What did you stand
corrected upon?

I see BBC broadcasts which occasionally show me the reality of the
world happenings that the Big 3 TV networks don't bother to show us
here in this country. Could yours be similarly bothered by political
skewing?

So - this will drag on for ever, Gunner abstracting references of
dubious quality but *voluminous quantity, some of you unquestioning
anything you read that supports your particular hobby horse - not just
for guns, but for any subject. (not that I would ever do anything like
that, oh no....g)

g

someone tells you something, you question it
someone gives you information hand written, you question it.
if its a computer printout, it must be true.
if its on the internet.....what happened to *the Bull**** Filters, why
do they get turned off all the time?

g *Yeah, it's getting harder and harder to find credible data on the
Net. *The nice thing is that you can check so many resources against
the others, finally coming to -some- kind synthesis of reality if not
the gods' honest truth. *(No, that apostrophe is where it's supposed
to be. Crom, Odin, Buddha, et al would have wanted it that way.)

--
Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what
to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- George S. Patton

Hi Larry, Stewart, et all.

I wasn't questioning gun licensing or regulation, I have given up on
that. (but interesting Pavlovian reaction from you guys, wasn't it)
You guys make powerful arguments for the individuals right to own arms
for self defense, no argument with that either. Its your country, you
make the rules, you live by the consequences. And I cant imagine
people like Don Forman going feral and committing a massacre. I send
Don the occasional picture of BIG NASTY things that do need large
caliber rifles to take out - the people who do this are experts, and I
have no quibble with them owning the right tools for the job. They are
sane. Odd, perhaps, but sane.

What I was questioning was the use of dubious statistics and
statements to bolster a cause - it does you no good to have such a
sloppy research methodology and merely gives ammunition (hahah - a gun
pun!) to your opponents.

And I have lived long enough, and seen enough bull****, and broken
promises and lies from...just about everyone...that I no longer
believe what I see without question. It didn't take more than 30
seconds to find the interferences to the NRA video/article that showed
it was dubious, to say the least.

So. Where does that leave "the truth"

I don't care enough to do the research to prove or disprove any of it,
I don't care that much about the subject - we have a different
culture, and its a bit much that your gun lobbyists try to bolster
their case with "statistics" and research from my own country.

Credibility needs to be earned - Cliff with his loony leftist rants
has the same credibility as Gunner with his "messages from high
ranking officials telling the truth" - ie, zero.

In closing - its an emotive subject anyway (like politics) so no
amount of argument, rational or otherwise, is going to change anyone's
mind. I read a quote once that said "everything you read in the
newspapers is correct, except for the subject you have great knowledge
about"......

Andrew VK3BFA.

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 05:23:34 -0800 (PST), wrote:


And I have lived long enough, and seen enough bull****, and broken
promises and lies from...just about everyone...that I no longer
believe what I see without question. It didn't take more than 30
seconds to find the interferences to the NRA video/article that showed
it was dubious, to say the least.

So. Where does that leave "the truth"

I don't care enough to do the research to prove or disprove any of it,
I don't care that much about the subject - we have a different
culture, and its a bit much that your gun lobbyists try to bolster
their case with "statistics" and research from my own country.

Credibility needs to be earned - Cliff with his loony leftist rants
has the same credibility as Gunner with his "messages from high
ranking officials telling the truth" - ie, zero.

In closing - its an emotive subject anyway (like politics) so no
amount of argument, rational or otherwise, is going to change anyone's
mind. I read a quote once that said "everything you read in the
newspapers is correct, except for the subject you have great knowledge
about"......

Andrew VK3BFA.


In other words...despite MULTIPLE sources of data, you choose to ignore
all of it, because your mind is already made up, and nothing will change
it.

And wave your hands in resignation over your inability to care one way
or another....anything else might make you reevaluate your world view
and its simply too much bother.

Thanks for the honesty, though your clarity of position leaves something
to be desired.

Pip pip...stiff upper lip and all that.

Its sad to see how far into apathy the collective Anglo pysche has
plummeted. From a once proud and rightious people...to mediocrity at
best and a dispirited flock of sheep at worst.

Pity

Gunner



"Not so old as to need virgins to excite him,
nor old enough to have the patience to teach one."

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 05:23:34 -0800 (PST), wrote:


And I have lived long enough, and seen enough bull****, and broken
promises and lies from...just about everyone...that I no longer
believe what I see without question. It didn't take more than 30
seconds to find the interferences to the NRA video/article that showed
it was dubious, to say the least.

So. Where does that leave "the truth"

I don't care enough to do the research to prove or disprove any of it,
I don't care that much about the subject - we have a different
culture, and its a bit much that your gun lobbyists try to bolster
their case with "statistics" and research from my own country.

Credibility needs to be earned - Cliff with his loony leftist rants
has the same credibility as Gunner with his "messages from high
ranking officials telling the truth" - ie, zero.

In closing - its an emotive subject anyway (like politics) so no
amount of argument, rational or otherwise, is going to change anyone's
mind. I read a quote once that said "everything you read in the
newspapers is correct, except for the subject you have great knowledge
about"......

Andrew VK3BFA.


In other words...despite MULTIPLE sources of data, you choose to ignore
all of it, because your mind is already made up, and nothing will change
it.

And wave your hands in resignation over your inability to care one way
or another....anything else might make you reevaluate your world view
and its simply too much bother.

As usual, Gunner, your data is twisted and you didn't bother to check it.

Here's the real story:

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

"In the latter case, it should be noted that the Australia-wide percentage
of homicides committed with firearms is now lower than it was before the gun
buy-back program, and lower than it has been at any point during the past
ten years. (In the former case, the absolute number of firearm homicides in
Australia in 1998-99 was the lowest in the past ten years.)"

Links are provided to the Australian Institute of Criminology. Fifteen
minutes or so studying the data show how this story was cocked up -- which
you apparently swallowed whole.


Thanks for the honesty, though your clarity of position leaves something
to be desired.

Would that you were as honest.


Pip pip...stiff upper lip and all that.

Its sad to see how far into apathy the collective Anglo pysche has
plummeted. From a once proud and rightious people...to mediocrity at
best and a dispirited flock of sheep at worst.

You've emerged as one of Usenet's more prolific bull****ting kooks, Gunner.
You have so much to be proud of.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 05:23:34 -0800 (PST), wrote:

You've emerged as one of Usenet's more prolific bull****ting kooks,
Gunner. You have so much to be proud of.

Nah, the welfare queen really isn't that prolific Ed. Relatively speaking
anyway.
You got the bull****ting part right though.


JC

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 05:23:34 -0800 (PST), wrote:

You've emerged as one of Usenet's more prolific bull****ting kooks,
Gunner. You have so much to be proud of.

Nah, the welfare queen really isn't that prolific Ed. Relatively speaking
anyway.
You got the bull****ting part right though.


JC

I think he gets the award for bogus references and citations, however.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 05:23:34 -0800 (PST), wrote:

You've emerged as one of Usenet's more prolific bull****ting kooks,
Gunner. You have so much to be proud of.

Nah, the welfare queen really isn't that prolific Ed. Relatively speaking
anyway.
You got the bull****ting part right though.


JC

I think he gets the award for bogus references and citations, however.

As a percentage.
LOL
I think the cause of his latest health problem was letting an actual fact or
fragment of truth close in on him.

JC