DoN. Nichols wrote:
It depends. Mitutoyo calipers seem to have pretty good battery
life -- about a year IIRC

Starrett ones go flat in a few months if just put away, but they
have the two large coin cells in a sliding holder. Slide it just about
1/8" and the batteries are disconnected from the circuitry so the
batteries go back to shelf life expectancy. Of course -- you have to
re-zero the calipers when you slide the batteries back into contact --
but it is easy, and makes for long battery life, so I'll stick with
that.

The cheap import ones (e.g. the ones which I got for about
$18.00 at a hamfest) go flat in three to six months with *good* cells
(the SR-357 ones). With cheap ones they last perhaps one month or two.
(The main question on those right now is "Where are they?" They're
supposed to be up here for convenience, while the other two are in the
shop near different machines.

And I do have one other very nice digital calipers, which I can
no longer use. These were B&S brand, and had an optical glass encoder
at the bottom of the groove where the rack gear would be on dial
calipers -- *but* they require PX-13 cells -- Mercury cells which are
now made of unobtanium (at least here in the Politcally Correct USA).
(And the B&S did tend to drain the cells fairly quickly for the price --
about six months IIRC.)

But -- I got several years of use out of a $15.00 purchase at a
hamfest -- supplied in fitted wooden box -- before the cells became
unavailable.

http://www.smallbattery.company.org....r9_adapter.htm

Allows you to use a 386/SR43 cell in place of the PX-13 cells. I have a
couple in different cameras. They work pretty good.



--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

(snip)

I should emphasize that it is very easy to forget how dangerous it is
trying to see something up close...and getting a wire, a metal
particle, etc. in the eye...thus losing an eye.

I know of several people who were trying to sneak a peek without their
glasses...and now sport a glass eye.

Makes for a great party trick when you pop it out....

TMT

I still have a small starrett box with the remains of what was a 48mm
safety lens (common, "almost" indestructible hardened glass) used before
polycarbonate.

The result from a mate driving a bearing race off with a punch, the
shard hit the glasses hard enough to bruise my cheek!

I keep way too much stuff?

Matt

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

(snip)

Good description of how it goes...try a set of trifocals or even
quadfocals some time to really have fun.

TMT

LOL, I was golfing with a buddy some years back who was usually a 12 to
14 handicap. For the first three holes he played more like a 24. When he
finally whiffed the tee ball he stopped and realized the had his
tri-focals on....

He drinks too much...

Matt

spaco wrote:

(snip)

If you think the problems others have described so far are an issue,
have you tried electric welding with bifocals or progressives?
Especially with the small window in the basic helmets?

Weld with reading glasses corrected to arms length work, I weld much
better than 20 years ago when I would often get too close.


Also, note that we need LOTS more light as we age in order to get the
contrast we need to see well. At our lab, they figured 10X as much!


I noticed that some years back (night driving makes me tired fast now).

I know you probably dont's want to hear this, but those visor type
magnifiers might be a useful option now.


Used them for years now, (surprising how tired one gets when fighting
vision). Down side is hair getting caught in mechanism, up side - don't
need a mirror for haircut scheduling.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------

On Dec 23, 8:19*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-12-23, wrote:
....
The real mongrel is SMD components in electronics - incredibly small,
if you drop one, forget about ever finding it. Use a magnifying lamp
to see them, but then loose depth perception.

* * * * Stereo Zoom microscope for the depth perception -- but perhaps
the magnifying lamp to *find* it first. :-)

A strong light at a low angle makes them cast a long shadow that's
more easily seen, good enough to find an 0603 on the floor.

My nastiest SMD task was adding forgotten ECL pullups using 0201
resistors stood on end, butt-spliced to a fine wire jumper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology

JW

Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Dec 23, 8:19 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2008-12-23, wrote:
...
The real mongrel is SMD components in electronics - incredibly small,
if you drop one, forget about ever finding it. Use a magnifying lamp
to see them, but then loose depth perception.

Stereo Zoom microscope for the depth perception -- but perhaps
the magnifying lamp to *find* it first. :-)

A strong light at a low angle makes them cast a long shadow that's
more easily seen, good enough to find an 0603 on the floor.

My nastiest SMD task was adding forgotten ECL pullups using 0201
resistors stood on end, butt-spliced to a fine wire jumper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology

JW


Try lifting a pin on a 288 pin package, and soldering 40 AWG wire to
it, to correct a layout error.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 14:42:11 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 05:39:06 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

snip
And perhaps some of you guys can
tell me - every time I been in the snow, my feet get frozen - the rest
is ok, but the feet are almost painful. Wear 2 pairs of socks, good
leather work boots. Whats the secret, except for looking like some
idiot Snow Bunny...

Warm snow bunny beats cold snow bunny every time See:

http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/...valve-4030.cfm

They are heavy, but they grip ice/slippery pretty well and
are the warmest boots I've ever had. Hold up pretty well
too. I've been wearing them for over 15 years now. Trudged 6
miles with them on so far today, probably do another 4 miles
later this afternoon. Altogether I average 10 miles a day
walking. Haven't been able to wear anything else now for the
past several weeks...

Just make sure you get the real thing and not one of the
look-alike/knock-offs.

The black mouse boots are not quite as warm, but considerably lighter
and less bulky. I've never had cold feet using them down to -35F,
though by the time it's that cold I'm in my sleeping bag. I snowshoed
4 miles yesterday in mine. They're the second pair I've owned in 30
years and are starting to show their age, good to know of a place to
get new pair at a reasonable price.
http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/...valve-2793.cfm

--
Ned Simmons

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:37:25 -0500, Wes
wrote:

Leon Fisk wrote:

http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/...valve-4030.cfm

They are heavy, but they grip ice/slippery pretty well and
are the warmest boots I've ever had. Hold up pretty well
too. I've been wearing them for over 15 years now. Trudged 6
miles with them on so far today, probably do another 4 miles
later this afternoon. Altogether I average 10 miles a day
walking. Haven't been able to wear anything else now for the
past several weeks...

My dad had GI issue boots like those. Sure were warm. Sadly, I grew up a bit more and
they didn't fit anymore. Same thing for mom's ice skates.

Wes

Don't know how far you wander, but General Jim's Surplus
over in Clare used to carry them. Per their website it looks
like they still do:

http://www.generaljims.com/InsulatedBoots/

Right next door to Jay's Sporting Goods, I KNOW you've been
there before.

If you know exactly what size you need, I would just order
them from one of the net stores.

Unless you do something really bad to them, they will
last/holdup for 15-20 years.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:35:32 -0600, Wes wrote
(in message ):



Then get speciality glasses for close work, far work and something in
between.

I have a feeling i'll be ponying up bucks for glasses for the difficult
situations.


http://zennioptical.com/cart/home.php

low prices here. Am not sure what the catch is.
tom koehler

--
I will find a way or make one.

On Dec 24, 9:43*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

* *Try lifting a pin on a 288 pin package, and soldering 40 AWG wire to
it, to correct a layout error.

One isn't all that bad, doing two adjacent ones without shorting them
is miserable. I used bare wire and sleeved one with Kynar wirewrap
insulation. Polyurethane insulated magnet wire that self-strips when
dipped in a solder ball works pretty well, too.

I prefer the Optivisor to retain depth perception but some excellent
rework people like the camera systems with large LCD screens, which
aren't nearly as tiring as binocular microscopes. After 1/2 hour I had
to stop for a break, go outside and stare at the distant horizon.

Jim Wilkins

Leon Fisk wrote:


Don't know how far you wander, but General Jim's Surplus
over in Clare used to carry them. Per their website it looks
like they still do:

http://www.generaljims.com/InsulatedBoots/

Right next door to Jay's Sporting Goods, I KNOW you've been
there before.


I've left a fair pile of money at Jay's over the years. I'll check next door next time
I'm down there.

Thanks,

Wes

In article . net,
tom koehler wrote:
http://zennioptical.com/cart/home.php

low prices here. Am not sure what the catch is.

They are made in China, cranked out at the factory level. No local
support/adjustment, no way to get lenses made for glasses you own
already, no way to get non-standard options, and DON'T make a typo when
entering your prescription. Your prescription probably does not have the
PD (or IPD) pupil distance, the correct spacing for the centers of the
lenses - you need to get that accurately measured to get a good result -
ask to have it put on your prescription, and realize that it may be
different for close-focus as your eyes rotate towards the center.

I've never ordered bifocals from them - but I did order my single-vision
"distance" and "readers" from them, and have been pleased with the
quality for the price. Given that I was coming from being disgusted with
dropping $180 on useless beer-goggle progressive lenses through a local
optician, I was not expecting much, but I was pleasantly surprised -
particularly that their hard-coated polycarbonate (stock standard, not
an add-on optional expense) has held up to the abuse I give glasses for
several years. I've used only glass or ceramic (photogray extra) for
years due to the way I'd kill plastic, and I haven't killed these yet.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Dec 24, 9:43 am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

Try lifting a pin on a 288 pin package, and soldering 40 AWG wire to
it, to correct a layout error.

One isn't all that bad, doing two adjacent ones without shorting them
is miserable. I used bare wire and sleeved one with Kynar wirewrap
insulation. Polyurethane insulated magnet wire that self-strips when
dipped in a solder ball works pretty well, too.


We used a drop of GC silicon based 'Print Coat' conformal coating for
any number of wires. I only remember two or more on prototypes that were
sent to the floor to verify a preliminary test procedure while the
corrected boards were en route.


I prefer the Optivisor to retain depth perception but some excellent
rework people like the camera systems with large LCD screens, which
aren't nearly as tiring as binocular microscopes. After 1/2 hour I had
to stop for a break, go outside and stare at the distant horizon.


All I had was a stereo microscope. Some days I spent over half a day
doing SIt and rework so critical deadlines could be met. If I sent all
the boards throw the rework/ clean/QC cycle for every poor joint or
wrong 0805 resistor we would have been six months late. Instead, I did
my own, then had it cleaned & inspected when I finished. We were about
to lose a million dollar plus early delivery bonus one quarter. I worked
well into the night, by myself. I troubleshot, tested & aligned what
would have been three weeks worth of work by other techs by cherry
picking for the easiest to prepare. Then it took a full month for the
dogs, but there were four times as many.

I was told I could take the next day off if I wanted, but I just had
to be there to see the look on the QC peoples faces when they couldn't
even get to their desks for the dozens of carts full of boards waiting
for inspection. Boy, were they ****ed! Their boss told them to stop
wasting time and get busy. One said it would take a week to finish, but
was told that if one tech could do it in nine hours overtime, the two
should have no problem finishing before 1:00 pm.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

On 2008-12-24, Winston wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

[ ... ]
*but* they require PX-13 cells -- Mercury cells which are
now made of unobtanium (at least here in the Politcally Correct USA).

Nine bux. EACH. Whoa.

They say that it is currently $4.95 -- but the shipping is "$3.95
extra" -- so yes, it is almost $9.00 each.

http://www.shop.com/Wein_Cell_MRB625...19673-p!.shtml

And it is not certain how well it would work with four of them
in a digital caliper. The load profile is different from that of a
meter in a camera.

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-12-24, Steve W. wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

[ ... ]

And I do have one other very nice digital calipers, which I can
no longer use. These were B&S brand, and had an optical glass encoder
at the bottom of the groove where the rack gear would be on dial
calipers -- *but* they require PX-13 cells -- Mercury cells which are
now made of unobtanium (at least here in the Politically Correct USA).
(And the B&S did tend to drain the cells fairly quickly for the price --
about six months IIRC.)

But -- I got several years of use out of a $15.00 purchase at a
hamfest -- supplied in fitted wooden box -- before the cells became
unavailable.

http://www.smallbattery.company.org....r9_adapter.htm

Allows you to use a 386/SR43 cell in place of the PX-13 cells. I have a
couple in different cameras. They work pretty good.

Ouch! 27.50 UKP *each*, and the caliper needs four of them.
Maybe $165 (USD) assuming a 1.5:1 ratio, since I am too lazy to look up
the current exchange rate. :-) That costs more than either the Mitutoyu
or the Starrett calipers from eBay auctions.

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-12-24, Steve W. wrote:

(...)

Allows you to use a 386/SR43 cell in place of the PX-13 cells. I have a
couple in different cameras. They work pretty good.

Ouch! 27.50 UKP *each*, and the caliper needs four of them.
Maybe $165 (USD) assuming a 1.5:1 ratio, since I am too lazy to look up
the current exchange rate. :-) That costs more than either the Mitutoyu
or the Starrett calipers from eBay auctions.

Say DoN, would you please look at the second illustration in:
http://www.willegal.net/photo/srt/srt-mercury.htm

It implies your best choice is a type 675 battery at $1.31 each in the
6 pack.

Cell dimensions:
http://www.duracell.com/oem/Primary/Zinc/675.asp

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...ct_id=10242698

--Winston

On Dec 24, 10:43*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
...
* *I was told I could take the next day off if I wanted, but I just had
to be there to see the look on the QC peoples faces when they couldn't
even get to their desks for the dozens of carts full of boards waiting
for inspection. Boy, were they ****ed! Their boss told them to stop
wasting time and get busy. One said it would take a week to finish, but
was told that if one tech could do it in nine hours overtime, the two
should have no problem finishing before 1:00 pm. *

Bumper sticker:
"Technicians do what engineers can only dream of"

I later worked with the tech who custom-made it.

Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Dec 24, 10:43 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
...
I was told I could take the next day off if I wanted, but I just had
to be there to see the look on the QC peoples faces when they couldn't
even get to their desks for the dozens of carts full of boards waiting
for inspection. Boy, were they ****ed! Their boss told them to stop
wasting time and get busy. One said it would take a week to finish, but
was told that if one tech could do it in nine hours overtime, the two
should have no problem finishing before 1:00 pm.

Bumper sticker:
"Technicians do what engineers can only dream of"

I later worked with the tech who custom-made it.


I was handed some original prototypes once to prove the design was
OK, and that we didn't know what were were doing. After spending half a
day cleaning up the thick rosin flux and crappy solder work that
'engineer' was famous for, it had the same problems as the production
items.

I could clear out the entire engineering department with nothing more
than a blank piece of paper, and a ticked off look. I guess they thought
the paper was for taking names, after I finished kicking asses? They
knew they couldn't put me of with a phony promise, like the other techs.
If I found a problem, I researched it, wrote it up and took it to the
one responsible. If they ignore me, I stopped all work on the product
involved. It only took one time, and a hint at a second before they
knew that I didn't take 'NO', and questioned them when they said 'YES".


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:32:53 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Dec 24, 10:43 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
...
I was told I could take the next day off if I wanted, but I just had
to be there to see the look on the QC peoples faces when they couldn't
even get to their desks for the dozens of carts full of boards waiting
for inspection. Boy, were they ****ed! Their boss told them to stop
wasting time and get busy. One said it would take a week to finish, but
was told that if one tech could do it in nine hours overtime, the two
should have no problem finishing before 1:00 pm.

Bumper sticker:
"Technicians do what engineers can only dream of"

I later worked with the tech who custom-made it.


I was handed some original prototypes once to prove the design was
OK, and that we didn't know what were were doing. After spending half a
day cleaning up the thick rosin flux and crappy solder work that
'engineer' was famous for, it had the same problems as the production
items.

I could clear out the entire engineering department with nothing more
than a blank piece of paper, and a ticked off look. I guess they thought
the paper was for taking names, after I finished kicking asses? They
knew they couldn't put me of with a phony promise, like the other techs.
If I found a problem, I researched it, wrote it up and took it to the
one responsible. If they ignore me, I stopped all work on the product
involved. It only took one time, and a hint at a second before they
knew that I didn't take 'NO', and questioned them when they said 'YES".
Sounds like the case where our contractor was forced to pay upwards of
$5,000 for an environmental control box from a major international
supplier, which gave us nothing but trouble at the final acceptance
stage. When I asked our engineers to consider a re-design of the
control system, their answer was that they were too busy. I grabbed an
Electro-sonic catalog and played around for half a day before I came
up with a design that could be assembled from about $300.00 worth of
parts. When I presented it to them for approval, after two weeks they
came up with one modification which lowered the cost by $7.00. Two
years latter they discovered that I had altered the design due to the
discontinuance of one component and threatened to have me reprimanded
for unauthorized changes in "their" design, I let them proceed
(actually I sugested that they make love with themselves) and when
confronted by upper management, I presented my original design
paperwork, signed off by the then department head. End of story!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On 2008-12-25, Winston wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-12-24, Steve W. wrote:

(...)

Allows you to use a 386/SR43 cell in place of the PX-13 cells. I have a
couple in different cameras. They work pretty good.

Ouch! 27.50 UKP *each*, and the caliper needs four of them.
Maybe $165 (USD) assuming a 1.5:1 ratio, since I am too lazy to look up
the current exchange rate. :-) That costs more than either the Mitutoyu
or the Starrett calipers from eBay auctions.

Say DoN, would you please look at the second illustration in:
http://www.willegal.net/photo/srt/srt-mercury.htm

It implies your best choice is a type 675 battery at $1.31 each in the
6 pack.

Hmm ... except for the following footnote:

*** Does not account for zinc-air batteries limited lifetime due
to exposure to air

The way mine would get used, the cells would probably die
between jobs.

And, of course, he is testing them for use in camera metering
systems -- would probably work in the Nikon Photomic metering finder, or
in the old Miranda spot meter, but not sure about the digital caliper,
which I think has a greater current (it is running at least two LEDs as
well as the photocells and comparator circuits and counters. (I really
should set up a bench supply to provide 5.26V and measure the current --
both when active and when shut "off". This will tell me what I can get
away with. But it is too cold in the shop right now to try that. :-)

Two 3V cells in series with a silicon diode (typically 0.7v
drop, and I need 0.64V drop -- *if* I make a new battery holder for the
system.

Cell dimensions:
http://www.duracell.com/oem/Primary/Zinc/675.asp

That would require making adaptor collars for each of four
cells, because the holder holds four cells, and depends on the bulge
ring to make contact to hook them in series. Or -- perhaps I should
consider making a new holder. (I really should take a few close-up
shots of the holder and post links to them.)

I think that I would prefer two 3V cells and a silicon diode in
series to the zinc-air cells, which start dying the moment you energize
them by pulling off the sealing tape. (The cells have to be exposed to
air to start them working, and they don't stop until they die.)

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...ct_id=10242698

Price is pretty good. Two packs would give me three reloads of
cells.

Thanks,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:

(...)

It implies your best choice is a type 675 battery at $1.31 each in the
6 pack.

Hmm ... except for the following footnote:

*** Does not account for zinc-air batteries limited lifetime due
to exposure to air

The way mine would get used, the cells would probably die
between jobs.

What if you stored your calipers in an argon - filled
tin? It takes only a couple minutes of air exposure to (re)activate
the cells. I wonder how close you could get to the sealed self
discharge loss of 2% per year...

A few extra holes in your new holder and the battery door?
Piece of cake.

And, of course, he is testing them for use in camera metering
systems -- would probably work in the Nikon Photomic metering finder, or
in the old Miranda spot meter, but not sure about the digital caliper,
which I think has a greater current (it is running at least two LEDs as
well as the photocells and comparator circuits and counters. (I really
should set up a bench supply to provide 5.26V and measure the current --
both when active and when shut "off". This will tell me what I can get
away with. But it is too cold in the shop right now to try that. :-)

Spec sheet says 600 mAH at 2.0 mA rate. 300 hours use per set if you
break it up into 12 hour days. Like 3.5 weeks? Not too bad for less than
6 bux per set even if you never store the batteries in an oxygen - free
atmosphere.


Two 3V cells in series with a silicon diode (typically 0.7v
drop, and I need 0.64V drop -- *if* I make a new battery holder for the
system.

Not too efficient. 2.5 mW wasted out of a 12.6 mW power source.
(Positing 2 mA usage until we know better).
That's almost 20% down the tubes.


Cell dimensions:
http://www.duracell.com/oem/Primary/Zinc/675.asp

That would require making adaptor collars for each of four
cells, because the holder holds four cells, and depends on the bulge
ring to make contact to hook them in series. Or -- perhaps I should
consider making a new holder. (I really should take a few close-up
shots of the holder and post links to them.)

Yes. You Should.

I think that I would prefer two 3V cells and a silicon diode in
series to the zinc-air cells, which start dying the moment you energize
them by pulling off the sealing tape. (The cells have to be exposed to
air to start them working, and they don't stop until they die.)

I'm like that too.

--Winston

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 05:39:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:


worry about snow blower maintenance. And perhaps some of you guys can
tell me - every time I been in the snow, my feet get frozen - the rest
is ok, but the feet are almost painful. Wear 2 pairs of socks, good
leather work boots. Whats the secret, except for looking like some
idiot Snow Bunny...

Andrew VK3BFA.


It could be that you're wearing too much inside the boots and shutting
off your circulation, which makes your feet cold. Insulated boots
help.

RWL

"Winston" wrote in message
...
DoN. Nichols wrote:
snip---

Spec sheet says 600 mAH at 2.0 mA rate. 300 hours use per set if you
break it up into 12 hour days. Like 3.5 weeks? Not too bad for less than
6 bux per set even if you never store the batteries in an oxygen - free
atmosphere.

I've discovered that my vernier calipers don't go through batteries at
all----doesn't matter where I store them, or how often or much I use them.

Doesn't anyone wonder how advanced these devices really are? Seems to me
they're more a way to separate you from your money than a needed tool.
Frankly, I "don't get it".

But then, I'm a dinosaur that still trusts dials.

Harold

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
(...)

I've discovered that my vernier calipers don't go through batteries at
all----doesn't matter where I store them, or how often or much I use them.

Doesn't anyone wonder how advanced these devices really are? Seems to me
they're more a way to separate you from your money than a needed tool.
Frankly, I "don't get it".

But then, I'm a dinosaur that still trusts dials.

I never was comfortable with vernier calipers. They require more squinting
than I am comfortable with. I like dial calipers just fine.

The digital type has my vote.
It's just too convenient to push a button to convert to metric, or to re-zero
for differential measurements.

My solar powered Mitutoyo's continue to work perfectly after six years and I
haven't replaced a battery in them, yet.

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/pr...ategoryID=3949

--Winston

Winston writes:

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

I've discovered that my vernier calipers don't go through batteries
at all----doesn't matter where I store them, or how often or much I
use them.

Doesn't anyone wonder how advanced these devices really are? Seems
to me they're more a way to separate you from your money than a
needed tool. Frankly, I "don't get it".

But then, I'm a dinosaur that still trusts dials.

I never was comfortable with vernier calipers. They require more squinting
than I am comfortable with. I like dial calipers just fine.

The digital type has my vote.
It's just too convenient to push a button to convert to metric, or to re-zero
for differential measurements.

My solar powered Mitutoyo's continue to work perfectly after six years and I
haven't replaced a battery in them, yet.

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/pr...ategoryID=3949

I've had a Mitutoyo vernier caliper for decades, and it's always done
well for me. As I get older, reading it has become harder and
harder... so Santa brought me a new Harbor Freight digital that was
on sale for $10 yesterday. At a price like that, it's *really* hard
to pass up.

Larry Jaques wrote:

Man, the group sure is quiet this holiday week...even the spammers are
taking days off!


The attendants are off for the holiday, and the inmates are locked in
their cells. Too bad we couldn't get the same deal for the trolls.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

Larry Jaques made light the burden of existence by mentioning:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 09:52:49 -0800, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

(...)

I never liked the verniers much, either, especially when you tried to
measure something on a machine, in situ.

Woof! I never even though of that. Sounds painful.

The digital type has my vote.
It's just too convenient to push a button to convert to metric, or to re-zero
for differential measurements.

My solar powered Mitutoyo's continue to work perfectly after six years and I
haven't replaced a battery in them, yet.

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/pr...ategoryID=3949

Eek! It would take a long time to go through $200 worth of batteries,
sir. I'm happy with my perfectly good, 35-y/o, Chinese dial calipers,
TYVM.

'Sworth it. Big digits. Imperial or Proper measurement modes.
Differential readings. No cells to buy. What's not to like!

Man, the group sure is quiet this holiday week...even the spammers are
taking days off!

Thassa good sign.

It means we're enjoying stuff Santa brought us.

Right now I'm avoiding a box of Butter Toffee Almonds in a spectacularly
unsuccessful manner.

--Winston

On 2008-12-26, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"Winston" wrote in message
...
DoN. Nichols wrote:
snip---

Spec sheet says 600 mAH at 2.0 mA rate. 300 hours use per set if you
break it up into 12 hour days. Like 3.5 weeks? Not too bad for less than
6 bux per set even if you never store the batteries in an oxygen - free
atmosphere.

I've discovered that my vernier calipers don't go through batteries at
all----doesn't matter where I store them, or how often or much I use them.

I have one of those, too. But my eyes don't do well at reading
them these days. Dial calipers are a bit better -- but they tend to
jump out of calibration with a tiny bit of swarf in the rack and pinion
which drive the dial.

Doesn't anyone wonder how advanced these devices really are? Seems to me
they're more a way to separate you from your money than a needed tool.
Frankly, I "don't get it".

But then, I'm a dinosaur that still trusts dials.

Well ... good vernier calipers have both metric and inch scales,
so that benefit of the digitals is eliminated.

Digitals are a *lot* easier to read with my aging eyes.

But the major benefit of digitals (for me) is the ability to
re-zero at some other point and to read the difference from that point.
Set the calipers to the desired dimension, zero them there, and they
tell you how much diameter you need to turn off to reach your target
dimension. I use them frequently that way.

And give two or more holes of the same diameter, zero the inside
jaws on a single hole, then shift one jaw to a second hole while keeping
the other jaw in the first one, and you now have the center-to-center
spacing for the holes. (This *does* require the holes to all be the
same size. of course.)

If you need to accumulate statistics on dimensional variation
from something which you are making a lot of, or for incoming
inspection, you can connect a digital caliper (or a digital micrometer
for higher resolution) to a computer and accumulate each measurement you
take -- with no chance of typos transferring the information.

So -- I find the digital ones worthwhile a lot of the time. But
I have the dial and vernier ones for use when the batteries die on a
weekend, and I haven't restocked after the last time I replaced them (an
uncommon situation).

I'm not that much younger than you (born in 1941, FWIW) but I
work with computers a lot, and I like the digital instruments.

Of course -- I don't like them enough to have bought more than
0-1" and 1-2" in digital for micrometers. The rest of the range from
2-12" I cover with old fashioned micrometers. Though I do have a nice
Mitutoyo 0-12" digital caliper.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:45:27 -0800, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques made light the burden of existence by mentioning:
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 09:52:49 -0800, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

(...)

I never liked the verniers much, either, especially when you tried to
measure something on a machine, in situ.

Woof! I never even though of that. Sounds painful.

'Tis!


The digital type has my vote.
It's just too convenient to push a button to convert to metric, or to re-zero
for differential measurements.

My solar powered Mitutoyo's continue to work perfectly after six years and I
haven't replaced a battery in them, yet.

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/pr...ategoryID=3949

Eek! It would take a long time to go through $200 worth of batteries,
sir. I'm happy with my perfectly good, 35-y/o, Chinese dial calipers,
TYVM.

'Sworth it. Big digits. Imperial or Proper measurement modes.
Differential readings. No cells to buy. What's not to like!

Cha CHING! is what's not to like. Besides, I don't need those big
digits like you do...yet.


Man, the group sure is quiet this holiday week...even the spammers are
taking days off!

Thassa good sign.

It means we're enjoying stuff Santa brought us.

Right now I'm avoiding a box of Butter Toffee Almonds in a spectacularly
unsuccessful manner.

Ah, and I'm heading into the kitchen to dish up another slice of that
sugar-free chocolate meringue pie for dessert right now. burrrrrrp

--
We should take care not to make the intellect our god;
it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality.
-- Albert Einstein

On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 02:49:57 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article . net,
tom koehler wrote:
http://zennioptical.com/cart/home.php

low prices here. Am not sure what the catch is.

They are made in China, cranked out at the factory level. No local
support/adjustment, no way to get lenses made for glasses you own
already, no way to get non-standard options, and DON'T make a typo when
entering your prescription. Your prescription probably does not have the
PD (or IPD) pupil distance, the correct spacing for the centers of the
lenses - you need to get that accurately measured to get a good result -
ask to have it put on your prescription, and realize that it may be
different for close-focus as your eyes rotate towards the center.

I've never ordered bifocals from them - but I did order my single-vision
"distance" and "readers" from them, and have been pleased with the
quality for the price. Given that I was coming from being disgusted with
dropping $180 on useless beer-goggle progressive lenses through a local
optician, I was not expecting much, but I was pleasantly surprised -
particularly that their hard-coated polycarbonate (stock standard, not
an add-on optional expense) has held up to the abuse I give glasses for
several years. I've used only glass or ceramic (photogray extra) for
years due to the way I'd kill plastic, and I haven't killed these yet.
Similar experience here. I started out with bifocals, then sun
glasses, and finally progressives from them. Very happy with all
three. No scratches after a couple of years. I did have to have my
optician add the PD to my script.

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:45:47 -0600, spaco
wrote:

I have to vote with the guys who are pleased with their progressive
lenses. I have been wearing Varilux lenses since they came out.
The deal is, if you haven't already gotten this burned into your
gray matter by now, you have to pick a good optical company to work with
and you have to tell them exactly what you want and then keep coming
back until you get it.
As said previously, people like us have to get the "close up" area
to be high enough for our work. They tell me that many optometrists
still fit glasses for "reading" by fitting them for reading a book that
is held in you hands. That means that you'd be looking downwards to see
it. You'd hope that, by now, that industry would have realized that
computers don't ALL sit in your lap. So, you have to be real clear
about what you want to see and WHERE it is.
Bring samples of what you need to see with you to the office visit to
make sure YOU are getting what you want. The JC Whitney catalog is a
good one for me.


If you think the problems others have described so far are an issue,
have you tried electric welding with bifocals or progressives?
Especially with the small window in the basic helmets?

Also, note that we need LOTS more light as we age in order to get the
contrast we need to see well. At our lab, they figured 10X as much!

I know you probably dont's want to hear this, but those visor type
magnifiers might be a useful option now.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------

When you get your new lenses (normal/or progressive) pay special
attention to where they start changing. Before I retired I only delt
with high-dollar glasses. I got one pair that the first inflection
point in one lens was significantly lower than in the other. Another
time one lens was rotated about 15 deg. off the horizontal. Guess I'm
a bit slow as it took me some time to figure out the first one, much
less the second.

If you are buying over the Internet, remember that frame style can
effect the relationship of the center of the lens and your eyes. I
like rather large lenses to stop flying crud and ordered #41270 from
Zennioptical. As it happened these worked perfectly for me. YYMV.