--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Never thought I'd live to see
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : our "iron curtain" crumble...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

steamer wrote:

--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.

My dad tells of his remembrance of his grandfather trying to get Model T
engines to run on nitroglycerin. This was on a very large ranch back in
the 30's, when and where having explosives around was not considered a
big deal. He was just a pup and doesn't recall much more than his
grandfather got an engine to idle, but any attempt to run above idle
would blow the engines. He said there was a pile of engines outside the
barn with a variety of failures you would not expect to see in an
engine. Would give about anything to have a good picture of that pile...


Jon

steamer wrote:
--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.

I know there were a variety of tractors that used a 'shotgun' like
shell as a starting mechanism. Not sure how common it was.

Pete

--
Pete Snell
Department of Physics
Royal Military College
Kingston, Ontario,
Canada
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;
the point is to discover them.

Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

On Nov 21, 10:45*am, steamer wrote:
* * * * --Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.

--
* * * * "Steamboat Ed" Haas * * * * : *Never thought I'd live to see
* * * * Hacking the Trailing Edge! *: *our "iron curtain" crumble...
* * * * * * * * * * * * *www.nmpproducts.com
* * * * * * * * * *---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

I saw the Mythbuster episode where they tried to make an engine run on
Blackpowder.

I am not sure exactly when the first semi-automatic rifle was
Patented (John Browning?) but it seem to me that it would be pretty
simple to place a piston attached to a rod in the place of a bullet in
a rifle barrel. Have an exhaust port close to the end of the barrel
that reloads a new charge of powder just like the gas mechanism used
in autoloaders. A return spring would bring the rod and piston back in
the barrel to allow another shot. Have the rod and piston in the
barrel set up with a rack & pinion gear to provide power. Black
powder might burn to fast to make it work but with different rates of
burn with modern powders the combustion processes could be fine tuned
and might make the idea work. It would probably be too inefficient to
be practical but it would be an interesting project. If anyone does it
I sure would like to see another episode about it on Mythbusters.

Dennis

Pete Snell wrote:
steamer wrote:
--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we
seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.

I know there were a variety of tractors that used a 'shotgun' like
shell as a starting mechanism. Not sure how common it was.
That's a Kauffmann starter, also used in a lot of aircraft up to the
F-4, at least. it was a pretty big shell (at least for an F-4) with a
SLOW-burning powder. it would give about 15 seconds of continuous gas
production.

Jon

Pete Snell wrote:
steamer wrote:

--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we
seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.

I know there were a variety of tractors that used a 'shotgun' like
shell as a starting mechanism. Not sure how common it was.

Pete



Some piston aircraft engines too IIRC.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

"Jon Anderson" wrote: (clip) his
grandfather got an engine to idle, but any attempt to run above idle would
blow the engines. He said there was a pile of engines outside the barn
with a variety of failures you would not expect to see in an engine.
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What his grandfather didn't understand is that you don't want the charge in
the cylinder to *explode*. You want it to burn as evenly as possible on the
power stroke. That is what anti-knock is all about.

steamer wrote:
--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.


Mr. Diesel (Rudolf I think) was killed trying to make an engine run on
coal dust if I remember right.

BobH

BobH wrote:
steamer wrote:
--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and
we seemed to have vague memories of this actually working once,
maybe in the 1800s. Anyone got a reference? Also looking for
anything on engines running on acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put
one in my car; just thinking of the pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very*
remote location, heh.

Mr. Diesel (Rudolf I think) was killed trying to make an engine run on
coal dust if I remember right.

BobH
ISTR an article many years ago in I think PopSci about a turbine fired
with coal dust . A bit more abrasive than steam I'd think ...
--
Snag
'90 Ultra "Strider"
'39 WLDD "Popcycle"
Buncha cars and a truck

"BobH" wrote in message
.. .
steamer wrote:
--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we
seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.


Mr. Diesel (Rudolf I think) was killed trying to make an engine run on
coal dust if I remember right.

BobH

He was injured in the explosion (for the second time in his life; the first
time was when a steam engine of his design, which used ammonia for a working
medium, blew up on him), but it didn't kill him. He was lost overboard on a
steamship -- possibly a suicide.

--
Ed Huntress

On Nov 21, 5:13*pm, BobH
wrote:
...
Mr. Diesel (Rudolf I think) was killed trying to make an engine run on
coal dust if I remember right.

BobH

Diesel's mysterious fate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Diesel
Gunpowder engine, etc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...bustion_engine
Wooden motorcycle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottlieb_Daimler

Jon Elson wrote:

That's a Kauffmann starter, also used in a lot of aircraft up to the
F-4, at least. it was a pretty big shell (at least for an F-4) with a
SLOW-burning powder. it would give about 15 seconds of continuous gas
production.

I think the USAF used them. The Marine F4J and F4S I worked on required compressed air to
start.

Wes

Leo Lichtman wrote:

What his grandfather didn't understand is that you don't want the charge in
the cylinder to *explode*. You want it to burn as evenly as possible on the
power stroke. That is what anti-knock is all about.

And how do you -know- he didn't understand that?
He got the engines to run, which meant the nitro was burning. He just
couldn't control things well enough to do much beyond that. Admittedly,
it was shade tree engineering. But I'd bet money if Great-Grandpa were
around to be questioned, he would certainly know the difference between
burning and exploding with respect to internal combustion engines.


Jon

Pete Snell wrote:
steamer wrote:
--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we
seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.

I know there were a variety of tractors that used a 'shotgun' like
shell as a starting mechanism. Not sure how common it was.

Pete


Yep, The common one many people see is the Field Marshall Diesel with
the shotgun start option. It was a brass 12 gauge shell. Primer, powder
and a wax seal disc. You opened the starting port, remove the old shell,
then install the new one. Screw the top back on the port. Hit the
striker with a hammer to fire the shell. Then stand back and watch the
engine jump (single BIG piston diesel) the nose of the tractor.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

On 21 Nov 2008 16:45:57 GMT, steamer wrote:

--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.


Wafting a oxy-act torch (with the act. valve open) in front of a
reluctant engine is an old trick however, my experience is that it can
result in broken rings as acetylene does not apparently have a very
high octane rating.

I have read a reference to R. Diesel's original engine, that ran on
coal dust, saying something like "the second model was redesigned to
run on coal oil in an effort to produce an engine that did not self
destruct". Words to that effect, anyway.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

"Jon Anderson" wrote in message
...
Leo Lichtman wrote:

What his grandfather didn't understand is that you don't want the charge
in the cylinder to *explode*. You want it to burn as evenly as possible
on the power stroke. That is what anti-knock is all about.

And how do you -know- he didn't understand that?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think it's a fair assumption, since the fuel he chose is highly explosive.
Even gasoline can suffer pre-ignition (sometimes incorrectly called
"detonation") which will damage the engine if allowed to continue. This is
the reason for anti-knock additives, and in modern cars, automatic ignition
retard.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
He got the engines to run, which meant the nitro was burning. He just
couldn't control things well enough to do much beyond that.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Don't get me wrong. I'm not criticizing what he did. He was doing this at
a time when a lot of people didn't know a lot of the things that we know
now.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Admittedly, it was shade tree engineering. But I'd bet money if
Great-Grandpa were
around to be questioned, he would certainly know the difference between
burning and exploding with respect to internal combustion engines.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's pointless to argue over a question that can't be settled. It still
leaves me pondering about what he hoped to accomplish, since Model T's were
running pretty well on gasoline.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:10:07 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

Pete Snell wrote:
steamer wrote:
--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we
seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.

I know there were a variety of tractors that used a 'shotgun' like
shell as a starting mechanism. Not sure how common it was.
That's a Kauffmann starter, also used in a lot of aircraft up to the
F-4, at least. it was a pretty big shell (at least for an F-4) with a
SLOW-burning powder. it would give about 15 seconds of continuous gas
production.

Jon

There was also a "shotgun" starter that used a blank shell of some
sort. I never saw one but I remember in tech school a reference to one
being used by the Navy in some of their early recip engines.
Apparenttly it went off with a bang as opposed to the Kaufman.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:13:30 GMT, BobH
wrote:

steamer wrote:
--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.


Mr. Diesel (Rudolf I think) was killed trying to make an engine run on
coal dust if I remember right.

BobH

Nope, he died during a cross channel ferry trip. Lost overboard an
apparent suicide.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Leo Lichtman wrote:

It still leaves me pondering about what he hoped to accomplish, since Model T's were
running pretty well on gasoline.

That's one thing Dad never learned. I suspect it was just one of those
"I wonder if this might work" things. Would never have been practical
for general use. Imagine a collision resulting in both vehicles blown to
bits or someone running into a 'nitro pump' and leveling the whole block....

What's funny about it to me is that Great Grandpa never transitioned
well into automobiles. His first move in trying to get a car to stop was
to yell "Whoa..."


Jon

"Jon Anderson" wrote: (clip) Great Grandpa never transitioned
well into automobiles. His first move in trying to get a car to stop was
to yell "Whoa..."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:-)

On Nov 21, 11:45*am, steamer wrote:
* * * * --Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.

--
* * * * "Steamboat Ed" Haas * * * * : *Never thought I'd live to see
* * * * Hacking the Trailing Edge! *: *our "iron curtain" crumble...
* * * * * * * * * * * * *www.nmpproducts.com
* * * * * * * * * *---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

Christian Huygens tried it in 1680 http://tinyurl.com/6llat4

This was probably the first try at internal combustion engines.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 21, 11:45 am, steamer wrote:
--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we
seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Never thought I'd live to see
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : our "iron curtain" crumble...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---


speaking of gunpowder - I am told that one old farmer explained that he had
learned that the secret to a long life was to sprinkle a bit of gunpowder on
top of his eggs each morning - that it kept him energetic throughout the
day. It must have worked, when he died of old age, he was 104. He is
rememberd to this day for blasting a 10 foot hole in the side of the
crematorium.




** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Nov 21, 2:10*pm, Jon Elson wrote:
Pete Snell wrote:
steamer wrote:
* * --Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we
seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.

* I know there were a variety of tractors that used a 'shotgun' like
shell as a starting mechanism. Not sure how common it was.

That's a Kauffmann starter, also used in a lot of aircraft up to the
F-4, at least. *it was a pretty big shell (at least for an F-4) with a
SLOW-burning powder. *it would give about 15 seconds of continuous gas
production.

Jon

Here’s a patent for a gunpowder-fuelled IC engine:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=-Ws...1774#PP A2,M1

A 1965 movie with Jimmy Stewart called “Flight of the Phoenix” had an
airplane with a Coffman starter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fli...nix_(1965_film)
(Remade in 2004 with Dennis Quade)

Coffman engine starter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffman_engine_starter

On 2008-11-22, Bill Noble wrote:

[ ... ]

speaking of gunpowder - I am told that one old farmer explained that he had
learned that the secret to a long life was to sprinkle a bit of gunpowder on
top of his eggs each morning - that it kept him energetic throughout the
day. It must have worked, when he died of old age, he was 104. He is
rememberd to this day for blasting a 10 foot hole in the side of the
crematorium.

Neglecting the unliklyhood of it accumulating in the body enough
for such an effect ...

Was that supposed to be black powder, or smokeless? Smokeless
would not blast unless it was enclosed in something more rigid than a
stiff, and black -- well the carbon and sulfur would be harmless (and
perhaps the carbon even beneficial for the digestion, but the third
ingredient is saltpeter -- maybe he lived so long because he was not
climbing into other's wives' bedrooms? :-)

Of course -- with the smokeless -- he would be taking nitrates,
which are supposed to be bad with Viagra -- but did he live long enough
for Viagra to have been available anyway? :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

BobH wrote:
steamer wrote:

--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we
seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.


Mr. Diesel (Rudolf I think) was killed trying to make an engine run on
coal dust if I remember right.

I remember reading somewhere that an engine was once made which actually
ran (for a short time, at least) on coal dust. I don't remember anything
more, except that I don't think Rudolf Diesel was mentioned.

Best wishes,

Chris

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
BobH wrote:
steamer wrote:

--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we
seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the
1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of
the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.


Mr. Diesel (Rudolf I think) was killed trying to make an engine run on
coal dust if I remember right.

I remember reading somewhere that an engine was once made which actually
ran (for a short time, at least) on coal dust. I don't remember anything
more, except that I don't think Rudolf Diesel was mentioned.

Diesel's first engine ran on coal dust, but it blew up, injuring him.

There were later IC engines that ran on coal dust, but they had the obvious
problem: the abrasive quality of the ash caused severe engine wear.

--
Ed Huntress

Steamer inquired about running I.C. engines on acetylene gas and to this
I say: Google up "running I.C. engines on acetylene gas" 170,000 hits
including A link to A 1980 article on running A car engine on acetylene
gas from Mother Earth News.
Many years ago I had some correspondence with A fellow who owned a
company named Ace-Car-Go. He was experimenting with this subject and I
had A Site-Feed Acetylene Generator at the time and I was thinking about
converting A Dodge truck I had but than I figured it was
impractical in Minnesota since it's below freezing 8 months A year. (At
least it seems like it.)
Speaking of acetylene generators: I can give someone A real deal on
about A 100 pounds of carbide!

Good Luck!
H.R.

BobH sez: "Mr. Diesel (Rudolf I think) was killed trying to make an engine run on
coal dust if I remember right."

Dr. Diesel was mysteriously lost overboard from a ship.

Bob Swinney

"BobH" wrote in message
.. .
steamer wrote:
--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.



BobH

wrote (clip) Speaking of acetylene generators: I can
give someone A real deal on
about A 100 pounds of carbide!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I picked up an old carbide miner's lamp at a flea market, which I would like
to fire up, but I can't find carbide for it. Would you sell me some--I
really can't use 100 lb?

Robert Swinney wrote:
BobH sez: "Mr. Diesel (Rudolf I think) was killed trying to make an engine run on
coal dust if I remember right."

Dr. Diesel was mysteriously lost overboard from a ship.

Rudy was *such* a ham.

Nowadays they won't even let you bring your own generator aboard.


--Winston

Leo Lichtman inquired about purchasing some carbide and to this I say:
Sure. It should work in A carbide lamp as it's in granulated form
(some acetylene generators used A cake type product). The only problem
is logistics as it would have to go by the post office or one of the
delivery concerns and I don't know if they would have A problem with it.
Not dangerous in any way as long as it's kept dry!
Contact me at my email addy. It works.

H.R.

wrote:
Speaking of acetylene generators: I can give someone A real deal on
about A 100 pounds of carbide!
--Yeah; I found a 2-lb can of the stuff when cleaning out the shed.
That's what got me to thinking about the whole thing! :-)

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Never thought I'd live to see
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : our "iron curtain" crumble...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 19:26:34 -0600, harleyron wrote:
Leo Lichtman inquired about purchasing some carbide and to this I say:
Sure. It should work in A carbide lamp as it's in granulated form
(some acetylene generators used A cake type product). The only problem
is logistics as it would have to go by the post office or one of the
delivery concerns and I don't know if they would have A problem with it.
Not dangerous in any way as long as it's kept dry! Contact me at my
email addy. It works.

Looks like small amounts (less than 10 pounds) are shippable USPS
marked ORM-D (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORM-D) and
"Consumer Commodity" according to "Mailing Hazardous Materials" in
http://www.usps.com/mailerscompanion/janfeb2004/mc0204art5.htm

UPS might have the same ORM-D rules as USPS but I didn't read their
pages closely. UPS at least lists a contact to inquire about details,
instead of just saying to contact local post office for details.
There seem to be an awful lot of details that apply. Eg --
follow links to "Title 49 CFR 172.101 Table (List of Hazardous
Materials)" in http://phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat/library and see several
refs to calcium carbide.

Then see http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_019.htm where
the following sections say that ORM-D flammable solids can be
mailed by Surface Transportation: section 344 "Flammable Solids";
section 344.1.C: "Division 4.3, Dangerous When Wet. A material that,
by contact with water, is likely to become spontaneously flammable
or to give off flammable or toxic gas at a rate greater than 1 liter
per kilogram of the material per hour"; section 344.2, Mailability;
section 344.2.c, "Domestic Mail via Surface Transportation. A
flammable solid that can qualify as an ORM€“D material is permitted."

--
jiw

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:54:43 -0600, James Waldby wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 19:26:34 -0600, harleyron wrote:
Leo Lichtman inquired about purchasing some carbide and to this I say:
Sure. It should work in A carbide lamp as it's in granulated form
(some acetylene generators used A cake type product). The only problem
is logistics as it would have to go by the post office or one of the
delivery concerns and I don't know if they would have A problem with it.
Not dangerous in any way as long as it's kept dry! Contact me at my
email addy. It works.

Looks like small amounts (less than 10 pounds) are shippable USPS
marked ORM-D (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORM-D) and
"Consumer Commodity" according to "Mailing Hazardous Materials" in
http://www.usps.com/mailerscompanion/janfeb2004/mc0204art5.htm

UPS might have the same ORM-D rules as USPS but I didn't read their
pages closely. UPS at least lists a contact to inquire about details,
instead of just saying to contact local post office for details.
There seem to be an awful lot of details that apply. Eg --
follow links to "Title 49 CFR 172.101 Table (List of Hazardous
Materials)" in http://phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat/library and see several
refs to calcium carbide.

Then see http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_019.htm where
the following sections say that ORM-D flammable solids can be
mailed by Surface Transportation: section 344 "Flammable Solids";
section 344.1.C: "Division 4.3, Dangerous When Wet. A material that,
by contact with water, is likely to become spontaneously flammable
or to give off flammable or toxic gas at a rate greater than 1 liter
per kilogram of the material per hour"; section 344.2, Mailability;
section 344.2.c, "Domestic Mail via Surface Transportation. A
flammable solid that can qualify as an ORM–D material is permitted."


Id like to have 10 lbs myself, depending on price and cost of shipping.

Ive a couple old carbide lamps and a carbide cannon.

Gunner

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..."
Maj. Gen. John Sedgewick, killed by a sniper in 1864 at the battle of Spotsylvania

steamer wrote in
:

--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we
seemed to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in
the 1800s. Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on
engines running on acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my
car; just thinking of the pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote
location, heh.


I know some early engines ran on coal dust, in a sort of diesel cycle.

Wes wrote:
Jon Elson wrote:

That's a Kauffmann starter, also used in a lot of aircraft up to the
F-4, at least. it was a pretty big shell (at least for an F-4) with a
SLOW-burning powder. it would give about 15 seconds of continuous gas
production.

I think the USAF used them. The Marine F4J and F4S I worked on required compressed air to
start.
The Kauffman starter was an emergency use only
sort of thing, for when an aircraft was stranded
at a field which didn't have the appropriate
huffer to start it. There was a time when almost
every aircraft had specific starting gear,
different from any onther aircraft, driving the
logistics people near to distraction. Some were
huffers of various pressure and mass flow. Some
moved huge amounts of air at low pressure, others
moved small volumes at high pressure. Other
aircraft used electric starters of various
currents (pretty much all of those were ~30 V.)
All the F4 models use air start turbines, and
needed 28 V DC to operate the fuel valves and
ignition system.

Jon

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:10:07 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:

Pete Snell wrote:
steamer wrote:
--Remember the time they tried to make an I.C. engine run on
gunpowder? A bunch of us were talking about this the other day and we
seemed
to have vague memories of this actually working once, maybe in the 1800s.
Anyone got a reference? Also looking for anything on engines running on
acetylene. Fear not! Not going to put one in my car; just thinking of the
pyrotechnic spinoff for a *very* remote location, heh.

I know there were a variety of tractors that used a 'shotgun' like
shell as a starting mechanism. Not sure how common it was.
That's a Kauffmann starter, also used in a lot of aircraft up to the
F-4, at least. it was a pretty big shell (at least for an F-4) with a
SLOW-burning powder. it would give about 15 seconds of continuous gas
production.

Jon

There was also a "shotgun" starter that used a blank shell of some
sort. I never saw one but I remember in tech school a reference to one
being used by the Navy in some of their early recip engines.
Apparenttly it went off with a bang as opposed to the Kaufman.
Yes, I think that is still a version of the
Kauffman. The reciprocating engines needed a much
shorter inpulse, mostly to get over the first
compression stroke, so the time/energy of the
cartridge was tuned to that engine's needs.

Jon

On Nov 25, 1:01*pm, Jon Elson wrote:

Yes, I think that is still a version of the
Kauffman. *The reciprocating engines needed a much
shorter inpulse, mostly to get over the first
compression stroke, so the time/energy of the
cartridge was tuned to that engine's needs.

Jon

I've pushed a large radial prop or two and didn't notice much change
in resistance from individual cylinders.

I dunno about Kauffmans, other than seeing something like it portrayed in
Flight Of The Phoenix, but some rotary wing birds (Sea Knight, etc) had a
manually operated pump to charge an accumulator for a hydraulic starter
motor.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...

The Kauffman starter was an emergency use only sort of thing, for when an
aircraft was stranded at a field which didn't have the appropriate huffer
to start it. There was a time when almost every aircraft had specific
starting gear, different from any onther aircraft, driving the logistics
people near to distraction. Some were huffers of various pressure and
mass flow. Some moved huge amounts of air at low pressure, others moved
small volumes at high pressure. Other aircraft used electric starters of
various currents (pretty much all of those were ~30 V.) All the F4 models
use air start turbines, and needed 28 V DC to operate the fuel valves and
ignition system.

Jon

Some old time movies about WWI and around that time used Kauffmans.
Martin

Wild_Bill wrote:
I dunno about Kauffmans, other than seeing something like it portrayed
in Flight Of The Phoenix, but some rotary wing birds (Sea Knight, etc)
had a manually operated pump to charge an accumulator for a hydraulic
starter motor.