I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?

stryped wrote:
I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?

The screen broke off, or the tube? If it's the tube, then it
definitely needs replacing. Symptoms that you describe point to fuel
related issues. Check; diaphragm in carb (no cracks or 'perishing'),
fuel pickup (that tube), plugged orifices in the carb (from old fuel or
dirt,(maybe because there was no screen?)), old fuel (drain and replace
with fresh stuff).

Pete

--
Pete Snell
Department of Physics
Royal Military College
Kingston, Ontario,
Canada
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"That's a very elaborate story, but where have you REALLY been the
last three days?"

Jonah's Wife, sometime BC

"stryped" wrote in message
...
I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?

Yes... Answer as to why it will not start "It broke off."

RJ wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message
...
I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?

Yes... Answer as to why it will not start "It broke off."


Note that it didn't break off until _after_ he took it apart.

I'd do a complete rebuild on the carb, just on general principals. If
the tube is that old, then the rest of the non-metal parts are that
degraded, too, and any fine passages may well be choked with varnish.

So fix it!

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Nov 4, 10:20*am, stryped wrote:
I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?

The B&S repair manual shows many different models and variations of
the Pulsa-jet and Vacu-jet tank-mounted carb. To find the right
instructions you have to determine the engine model and match the carb
to a set of drawings.

Try filling the tank completely full, to get gas into whatever remains
of your broken pick-up tube. In general the best-guess needle valve
setting is out 1-1/2 turns from lightly seated, but they say that's
only enough to maybe get it started, you still have to adjust it half
way between too lean and too rich.

Yes, if anything is broken or damaged on them it needs to be replaced,
good luck!. Sometimes disassembling them and blowing out any dirt
fixes them, but if you haven't done carbs before take pictures of
where the pieces go and be very careful not to rip any gaskets.

"Tim Wescott" WROTE:
I'd do a complete rebuild on the carb, just on general principals. If the
tube is that old, then the rest of the non-metal parts are that degraded,
too, and any fine passages may well be choked with varnish.

Seconded. I had a similar problem in the past, which turned out to be fixed
with a new gasket between the tank and the upper carb body. Spent weeks
fiddling with the thing before solving it with a fifty cent part.

Jon

On Nov 4, 8:20*am, stryped wrote:
I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?

For B&S repair, I use this book:
http://www.amazon.com/How-Repair-Bri...=sip_rech_dp_3

Sounds like it may be a Pulsa-Jet and that's really not like a regular
carb. No float or needle valve and seat for one thing. A diaphram
pump works off the crankcase pulses and fills an elevated well up in
the fuel tank, overage just spills back. The tube sucks the gas into
the carb. Yes, it needs to be replaced and good luck finding the
part. If you've got an old-line small engine repair place around,
they may be able to help you out, either with N.O.S. parts or
something off the scrap pile. You will need the engine number to
locate parts, which is stamped into the housing somewhere unless
somebody has done some creative things to it. You might have to use
something like JB Weld to get the bits back together if you can't find
parts. Find some way to replace the screen, too.

Stan

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 07:20:48 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?


Yes, and yes. thats the pickup tube. No tube, no gas.

Gunner

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 09:04:04 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote:

RJ wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message
...
I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?

Yes... Answer as to why it will not start "It broke off."


Note that it didn't break off until _after_ he took it apart.

It was likely cracked.



I'd do a complete rebuild on the carb, just on general principals. If
the tube is that old, then the rest of the non-metal parts are that
degraded, too, and any fine passages may well be choked with varnish.

So fix it!

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

On Nov 4, 6:15*pm, (dan) wrote:
What's that Lassie? You say that stryped fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Tue, 4 Nov 2008 07:20:48 -0800 (PST):

I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?

If you can see a little can in the gas tank, you may be able to get it
to run. *That little can is where the carb. sucks its gas from. *The
tube that you saw is the pick-up for the fuel pump that keeps the can
full. *If you can't get it running soon, spray some oil into the carb.
intake to coat the cylinder walls. *Starting fluid can wash off oil
layer, allowing rust to form.

--

Dan H.

That pickup tube cracks right at the top where it enters the
carb. Vibration and embrittling of the plastic by the fuel does it. It
will happily suck air through the crack instead of picking up fuel.

Dan

What's that Lassie? You say that stryped fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Tue, 4 Nov 2008 07:20:48 -0800 (PST):

I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?


If you can see a little can in the gas tank, you may be able to get it
to run. That little can is where the carb. sucks its gas from. The
tube that you saw is the pick-up for the fuel pump that keeps the can
full. If you can't get it running soon, spray some oil into the carb.
intake to coat the cylinder walls. Starting fluid can wash off oil
layer, allowing rust to form.


--

Dan H.

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:32:50 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 07:20:48 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?


Yes, and yes. thats the pickup tube. No tube, no gas.

The tube has a built in check valve, and the "gasket" is the
diaphragm, and in 90% of cases needs to be replaced. Even with
everything in good order, these engines will only start with the tank
nearly full.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Gerald Miller wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:32:50 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 07:20:48 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the
carb off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic
tube from the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon
the bottom of it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not
starting?


Yes, and yes. thats the pickup tube. No tube, no gas.

The tube has a built in check valve, and the "gasket" is the
diaphragm, and in 90% of cases needs to be replaced. Even with
everything in good order, these engines will only start with the tank
nearly full.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

My experience bears this out - a very-nearly-brand-new (maybe six uses ?)
Weedeater mower with a B&S engine . Will not start cold unless the tank is
at least 2/3 full . After it's warmed up , it will restart , but from cold ,
I just start with a full tank and save myself a lot of frustration .
What ever happened to the ol' 5S , great little motor !
--
Snag

"stryped" wrote in message
...
I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?


You need to replace the tube, any B&S dealer can get one for you. Also there
is a fuel pump diaphragm under a rectangular cover on the side of the carb.
Replace it, even if it looks good. Try blow compressed air or carb cleaner
through all passages, there are not very many to worry about.
Greg

Pete Snell wrote:
stryped wrote:
I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?

The screen broke off, or the tube? If it's the tube, then it
definitely needs replacing. Symptoms that you describe point to fuel
related issues. Check; diaphragm in carb (no cracks or 'perishing'),
fuel pickup (that tube), plugged orifices in the carb (from old fuel or
dirt,(maybe because there was no screen?)), old fuel (drain and replace
with fresh stuff).

Pete

If it is a diaphragm type carb (seems unlikely in a 5hp unit), the
diaphragm will often SEEM to be ok, but in actualty it may be just a
little bit stiffened, and no longer function. Blame the alcohol content
of gasoline. The ubiquitous weed-whacker can be miraculously returned
to life by diaphragm replacement. Um, I won't even suggest allegories
at this point... /mark

stryped wrote:
I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off.
These things have a vacuum-operated diaphragm
pump, make out of a section of the gasket between
tank and carb, that pumps fuel into a bowl in the
carb body.
The gaskets can get dried out and crack, or just
get stiff or stuck to part of the carb and not
pump up and down. Sometimes you can get them
unstuck by just pouring a little fuel into the air
intake or on the air filter, and then starting it
a couple times. If that doesn't get it unstuck,
then you need to disassemble, clean and inspect
the parts. Common for "rubber" parts to
deteriorate in storage. The plastic dip tube that
broke sounds like it is the fuel pick-up for this
pump system.

Jon

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:33:39 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 09:04:04 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote:

RJ wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message

...
I have an old tiller given to me by my grandfather. It is a 5
horsepower Brigs. The carb is mounted to the gas tank. It would only
run with starting fluid for 10 seconds then shut off. I took the carb
off to clean it but there is a long pencil looking plastic tube from
the carb that goes into the gas tank. It has a screenon the bottom of
it. It broke off.

Do I need to replace it and what could be wrong with it not starting?

Yes... Answer as to why it will not start "It broke off."


Note that it didn't break off until _after_ he took it apart.

It was likely cracked.



I'd do a complete rebuild on the carb, just on general principals. If
the tube is that old, then the rest of the non-metal parts are that
degraded, too, and any fine passages may well be choked with varnish.

So fix it!


Could be. Whatever is wrong, a carburetor -- even a little bitty one in
a Vibration & Stratton engine -- only works well when it's clean.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Nov 4, 9:43*pm, "Terry Coombs" wrote:
....
* My experience bears this out - a very-nearly-brand-new (maybe six uses ?)
Weedeater mower with a B&S engine . Will not start cold unless the tank is
at least 2/3 full . After it's warmed up , it will restart , but from cold ,
I just start with a full tank and save myself a lot of frustration .
* What ever happened to the ol' 5S , great little motor !
--
Snag

I have a reel mower with a Briggs & Stratton 6BS motor, made in the
1950's and still running just fine. It almost always starts on the
second or third pull in the spring, even when I forget and leave a
little of last year's gas in it. The gas cap gasket is a piece of
cardboard with minimal pinhole venting, and I think the gas stays
fresh over the winter because it's fairly well protected from humidity
and oxygen.

"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
and the "gasket" is the diaphragm, and in 90% of cases needs to be
replaced. Even with
everything in good order, these engines will only start with the tank
nearly full.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

I may be wrong, but 5 HP on a rototiller is more than likely a horizontal
engine. The gasket between the tank and carb is just a gasket. The fuel pump
diaphragm is on the side of the carb, next to the muffler.
Greg