Those of you who have retrofitted a VFD on their 10EE, where did you
put it?

I am thinking about putting it inside the casting, just because it
will be a neater final solution. But the end where the original drive
motor was, was filthy with oil and chips. Not really an environment
that I would like for a VFD. Now this may have just been 60+ years of
grime accumulation so may not be as bad as I think.

I have looked at putting it in the location where the generator was
(this had an MG setup). I can stick it in there, but it's not real
convenient for access.

The other option is mounting it on the outside on the backside. This
is easy to get to, and clean. But then I have a drive hanging off the
back of my lathe to bump into.

Decisions....

JW

I put my VFD in the access panel right below the lathe apron. IIRC, that's
where the MG sat. its been over 10 years.

I put a pot on the original speed dial for speed control. And took three
wires from the forward/off/reverse rocker bar to the VFD for on/off/reverse
control. That way, my machine uses all the original controls.

You'll LOVE a 10EE with new speed control. I used a 5 hp. motor and kept the
old backgear. If I were to do it over I'd go with a 10 horse and sell the
backgear on eBay. Which way are you going?

Karl

On Oct 27, 1:38*pm, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
I put my VFD in the access panel right below the lathe apron. IIRC, that's
where the MG sat. its been over 10 years.

I put a pot on the original speed dial for speed control. And took three
wires from the forward/off/reverse rocker bar to the VFD for on/off/reverse
control. That way, my machine uses all the original controls.

You'll LOVE a 10EE with new speed control. I used a 5 hp. motor and kept the
old backgear. If I were to do it over I'd go with a 10 horse and sell the
backgear on eBay. Which way are you going?

Karl

I was going to use a pot on the speed control and the original FWD/REV/
OFF switch. Mine has 5 wires coming off from it, but for the life of
me, can't figure out what two of them are for. The three black wires
are the FWD/REV, DP contact set. There are two yellow wires that I am
not sure.

I have a 7.5 hp on the VFD for now. It seems to have pretty good
torque all the way down to almost stalled (1Hz). I don't have it
mounted rigidly yet. Just sitting on blocks with it's own weight for
belt tension. This way I can still make things (to repair itself). I
have thought about mouting the backgear on the motor so I could still
keep reasonable power down to nearly nothing. See how it goes I
guess. So far I have nearly no money invested in the retrofit.
Scrounged and donated parts from salvage.

I have a 10HP VFD, and it is too tall too fit behind the panel on the
front side (by the operator) where the MG sat. I could lay it on it's
side. It wouldn't be quite proper for cooling, but it may be ok any
how. It has a fan on it, and would blow sideways instead of upwards.

JW

On 2008-10-28, jw wrote:
On Oct 27, 1:38*pm, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
I put my VFD in the access panel right below the lathe apron. IIRC, that's
where the MG sat. its been over 10 years.

I put a pot on the original speed dial for speed control. And took three
wires from the forward/off/reverse rocker bar to the VFD for on/off/reverse
control. That way, my machine uses all the original controls.

You'll LOVE a 10EE with new speed control. I used a 5 hp. motor and kept the
old backgear. If I were to do it over I'd go with a 10 horse and sell the
backgear on eBay. Which way are you going?

Karl

I was going to use a pot on the speed control and the original FWD/REV/
OFF switch. Mine has 5 wires coming off from it, but for the life of
me, can't figure out what two of them are for. The three black wires
are the FWD/REV, DP contact set. There are two yellow wires that I am
not sure.

O.K. What kind of switch is it?

If a "drum" switch, with a lever moving from "REV" to "OFF" to
"FWD", and a three phase motor, you should expect three wires in, and
three wires out and the switch (with line three phase, not with the VFD)
goes between the line and the motor. One line is simply set up for
"CONNECT/OPEN/CONNECT", while the other pair are set up to be straight
through in forward, and swapped in reverse. But this is six wires. And
you can use one of thet swapped input wires as the COMMON for the VFD
and the two swapped motor phase wires to go to the FORWARD and REVERSE
control points on the VFD.

However -- if there were big contactors to switch the motor from
FORWARD to REVERSE, and you have a set of pushbuttons (in whatever
order) you can expect A common between the two FORWARD and REVERSE
pushbuttons, and a separate FORWARD and REVESE wire from NO (Normally
Open) contacts, and another pair of wires for the STOP pushbutton, which
will be NC (Normally Closed). The VFD should be capable of being wired
to use this arrangement too. Just read the manual.

I have a 7.5 hp on the VFD for now. It seems to have pretty good
torque all the way down to almost stalled (1Hz).

Yep -- but run it too long at those speeds and it will overheat
-- unless you have an external fan which runs full speed all the time.
The motor's own fan is just not moving fast enough to cool itself.

I don't have it
mounted rigidly yet. Just sitting on blocks with it's own weight for
belt tension. This way I can still make things (to repair itself). I
have thought about mouting the backgear on the motor so I could still
keep reasonable power down to nearly nothing. See how it goes I
guess. So far I have nearly no money invested in the retrofit.
Scrounged and donated parts from salvage.

I have a 10HP VFD, and it is too tall too fit behind the panel on the
front side (by the operator) where the MG sat. I could lay it on it's
side. It wouldn't be quite proper for cooling, but it may be ok any
how. It has a fan on it, and would blow sideways instead of upwards.

O.K. As long as the fan does not die. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

* * * * O.K. *What kind of switch is it?

* * * * If a "drum" switch, with a lever moving from "REV" to "OFF" to
"FWD", and a three phase motor, you should expect three wires in, and
three wires out and the switch (with line three phase, not with the VFD)
goes between the line and the motor. *One line is simply set up for
"CONNECT/OPEN/CONNECT", while the other pair are set up to be straight
through in forward, and swapped in reverse. *But this is six wires. *And
you can use one of thet swapped input wires as the COMMON for the VFD
and the two swapped motor phase wires to go to the FORWARD and REVERSE
control points on the VFD.

I'm not sure what sort of switch it is. It's integral to the casting,
and I have not found a way to remove it to review the actual
contacts. The two extra wires don't seem to ohm out to anything
useful that I can find. For all I know they don't go anywhere. The
three I have identified will work quite well for the FWD/REV function
on the VFD.


I have a 7.5 hp on the VFD for now. *It seems to have pretty good
torque all the way down to almost stalled (1Hz).

* * * * Yep -- but run it too long at those speeds and it will overheat
-- unless you have an external fan which runs full speed all the time.
The motor's own fan is just not moving fast enough to cool itself.

Yes, very true. And a good reason to keep the backgear so the motor
speed can be kept up a little bit, while dropping spindle speed to
nearly stall.



* * * * O.K. *As long as the fan does not die. :-)

It does have a thermal protect, so if the fan did die the drive would
eventually shut itself down. I could add an additional fan easily
enough. For that matter, perhaps an inverse speed sensitive fan for
the motor too. Shouldn't be too hard with some sort of comparator
circuit...

Anyhow. Thanks for the input guys.

JW

On 2008-10-29, jw wrote:


* * * * O.K. *What kind of switch is it?

* * * * If a "drum" switch, with a lever moving from "REV" to "OFF" to
"FWD", and a three phase motor, you should expect three wires in, and
three wires out and the switch (with line three phase, not with the VFD)
goes between the line and the motor. *One line is simply set up for
"CONNECT/OPEN/CONNECT", while the other pair are set up to be straight
through in forward, and swapped in reverse. *But this is six wires. *And
you can use one of the swapped input wires as the COMMON for the VFD
and the two swapped motor phase wires to go to the FORWARD and REVERSE
control points on the VFD.

I'm not sure what sort of switch it is. It's integral to the casting,
and I have not found a way to remove it to review the actual
contacts.

O.K. Is there a lever which you move from REVERSE to STOP to
FORWARD (common with a drum switch), or are there three pushbuttons
(FORWARD, REVERSE, and STOP in whatever order the maker though made
sense)? The latter format is normally used for controlling contactors
(heavy duty relays), while the drum switch normally switches the high
current to the motor directly -- at least in the original system. Since
this is a Monarch 10EE, (I had missed that before), it is likely the
latter since it is controlling a DC motor, not a three phase one, though
it might still *look* like a drum switch with the lever.

Aha -- I think that I've found an illustration which shows the
switch. A lever near the spindle and just a little below it.

The two extra wires don't seem to ohm out to anything
useful that I can find. For all I know they don't go anywhere. The
three I have identified will work quite well for the FWD/REV function
on the VFD.

O.K. Are the other two connected together *except* when you
press the STOP button?

Never mind -- not a button. But are the black wires connected
together except when the FORWARD/STOP/REVERSE lever is in the STOP
position? If so, then they can be used for the stop function to the
VFD, and the momentary start ones from the others. Or -- as long as the
FORWARD and REVERSE wires hold connection to common as long as the lever
is in the corresponding position, you can simply put some wire nuts on
the black wires and tuck them away somewhere.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 07:12:50 -0700 (PDT), jw
wrote:

The two extra wires don't seem to ohm out to anything
useful that I can find. For all I know they don't go anywhere.

They could be the leads to the worklight. On my 1961 10EE I believe
the leads to the light are run with the fwd/rev switch wires. If your
light is gone, and most are, there's a small round cast cover on the
back of the headstock in line with the spindle switch. That not only
serves as the mount for the light and a toggle switch, but I think
also gives access to the back of the spindle switch.

--
Ned Simmons

On Oct 29, 11:01*pm, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 07:12:50 -0700 (PDT), jw
wrote:

The two extra wires don't seem to ohm out to anything
useful that I can find. *For all I know they don't go anywhere.

They could be the leads to the worklight. On my 1961 10EE I believe
the leads to the light are run with the fwd/rev switch wires. If your
light is gone, and most are, there's a small round cast cover on the
back of the headstock in line with the spindle switch. That not only
serves as the mount for the light and a toggle switch, but I think
also gives access to the back of the spindle switch.

--
Ned Simmons

Could be. There is such a cover. I cannot get that out either
Pretty much same reason as above for the switch. I removed the screws
and pried on it gently with a screwdriver but nothing seemed to
budge. Several layers of paint. Someday I will get around to
stripping it and giving it a "pretty" paint job.

And for DoN, yes I think it is the latter. The wire gauge is much to
light to be controlling the motor current directly. The leads ran to
the DC "control" box in the end casting. Assumably to control
switching relays and whatnot.

It does maintain contact when in the appropriate position(center to
FWD, and center to REV)

Thanks

JW