Thought 1: "Welding rod machines pretty nice"

Thought 2: "I must be demented, or have low standards"

Thought 3: "Never again will I buy a Smithy"

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Was there some sort story behind these profound observations?

Tim Wescott wrote:
Thought 1: "Welding rod machines pretty nice"

Thought 2: "I must be demented, or have low standards"

Thought 3: "Never again will I buy a Smithy"

RoyJ wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
Thought 1: "Welding rod machines pretty nice"

Thought 2: "I must be demented, or have low standards"

Thought 3: "Never again will I buy a Smithy"

Was there some sort story behind these profound observations?


Only that I needed a little shaft, and made it out of some 3/16 welding
rod instead of some more generally recognized as machinable material.

Oh -- and whenever I use my Smithy 1.5-in-1 tool it makes me wish I'd
spent the money on a clapped out real lathe.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Tim Wescott wrote:

Thought 1: "Welding rod machines pretty nice"

Thought 2: "I must be demented, or have low standards"

Thought 3: "Never again will I buy a Smithy"



Just curious, Tim, what brought on the third thought? I have a 1220 and
it's O.K. for my limited experience. I've had a couple of issues with
it but nothing I couldn't solve myself.

Jim

Tim Wescott wrote:

RoyJ wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

Thought 1: "Welding rod machines pretty nice"

Thought 2: "I must be demented, or have low standards"

Thought 3: "Never again will I buy a Smithy"


Was there some sort story behind these profound observations?



Only that I needed a little shaft, and made it out of some 3/16 welding
rod instead of some more generally recognized as machinable material.

Oh -- and whenever I use my Smithy 1.5-in-1 tool it makes me wish I'd
spent the money on a clapped out real lathe.


Oh man, you left yourself open with that first comment. A good retort
could have been, "I thought you already had one. That's what your wife
said anyway!" But I would NEVER think of saying anything like that to
you. ;-)

Jim

Jim Chandler wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:

Thought 1: "Welding rod machines pretty nice"

Thought 2: "I must be demented, or have low standards"

Thought 3: "Never again will I buy a Smithy"



Just curious, Tim, what brought on the third thought? I have a 1220 and
it's O.K. for my limited experience. I've had a couple of issues with
it but nothing I couldn't solve myself.

Jim

As a "mill", the Smithy just can't compare to the real milling machines
I've used.

One full turn of the vertical feed gives you 4.2" of movement, which
severely compromises your ability to make controlled-depth cuts compared
to a knee mill's 0.1"/turn vertical movement (on the knee, at least).

It's flexible, so it's extremely difficult to make accurate, clean
milling cuts.

At the lowest setting of the milling head, I barely reach the milling
vise (and it's a thick one) with a normal-length mill, and that's with
the quill at it's longest and most flexible extension.

The tail stock doesn't overhang, and the cross-feed slide is wide, so
you can't turn a shaft between centers all in one go -- at least not
unless I go buy an MT3 extension for the tail stock, which will make it
flexible.

The compound jib tapers a bit, so if I get it adjusted right for being
fully in it binds when it's fully out; if I loosen it to where it
doesn't bind when it's out then it's loose as all hell when it's fully in.

Having said all of that, for general lathe work it's not an unreasonable
machine. I've made any number of turned gizmos on it, and even without
a split nut it's not unreasonable to make threads with (5/8-40 threads
are fun, by the by). My only profound complaint about it as a lathe is
that dang tail stock -- I can live with the compound or replace it.

But I bought a Smithy instead of a plain ol' lathe because I needed to
do milling, and I have not been pleased with the machine in that regard
at all. Yes, I can make milling cuts with it, but it takes me hours to
do what it takes minutes to do on a knee mill, and the quality is very
poor compared to what I can easily achieve on that knee mill.

So I bitch about it, and one of these days I'll get a real milling
machine, hopefully followed by a better lathe.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Aug 31, 3:25 pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
Jim Chandler wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:



As a "mill", the Smithy just can't compare to the real milling machines
I've used.

True. I use Bridgport mills at school, their very nice. Weight a few
tons, need 3 phase power, 3-axis DRO's, a tech. to maintain them,
tooling , you just walk 20ft and ask the storeman... - its one of my
favourite fantasies..

One full turn of the vertical feed gives you 4.2" of movement, which
severely compromises your ability to make controlled-depth cuts compared
to a knee mill's 0.1"/turn vertical movement (on the knee, at least).

Doesn't it have the fine feed handle? - AFAIK, their the same as the
mini-mills arent they, at least from what I could see in the showroom.
And It is in desperate need of a DRO on the Y axis, you can (sorta)
get round it by using the adjustable depth stop on the column

It's flexible, so it's extremely difficult to make accurate, clean
milling cuts.

Yep. Goes real well for alumium, plastic.....it can be strengthened,
its on my "one day" list..

At the lowest setting of the milling head, I barely reach the milling
vise (and it's a thick one) with a normal-length mill, and that's with
the quill at it's longest and most flexible extension.

And thats a real easy one to fix - Little Machine Shop hvae a kit for
it, a longer rack which reaches down further towards the table. Good
value. Otherwise, use big spacers under your job...


The tail stock doesn't overhang, and the cross-feed slide is wide, so
you can't turn a shaft between centers all in one go -- at least not
unless I go buy an MT3 extension for the tail stock, which will make it
flexible.

The compound jib tapers a bit, so if I get it adjusted right for being
fully in it binds when it's fully out; if I loosen it to where it
doesn't bind when it's out then it's loose as all hell when it's fully in.

Having said all of that, for general lathe work it's not an unreasonable
machine. I've made any number of turned gizmos on it, and even without
a split nut it's not unreasonable to make threads with (5/8-40 threads
are fun, by the by). My only profound complaint about it as a lathe is
that dang tail stock -- I can live with the compound or replace it.

But I bought a Smithy instead of a plain ol' lathe because I needed to
do milling, and I have not been pleased with the machine in that regard
at all. Yes, I can make milling cuts with it, but it takes me hours to
do what it takes minutes to do on a knee mill, and the quality is very
poor compared to what I can easily achieve on that knee mill.

So I bitch about it, and one of these days I'll get a real milling
machine, hopefully followed by a better lathe.

Yep, me too. This is after I move to the country on a few acres, have
room for, and build, REALLY big sheds and workshop, get in 3 phase
power, - ..and I want a surface grinder as well.....and a Brobo cut
off saw.....and and and and........oh, and must remember to feed the
Flying Pigs every night

And as for materials - you use what you have/what you can get, and
feel pleased with yourself you worked around the problem....


Andrew VK3BFA.


--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Serviceshttp://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details athttp://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Aug 31, 1:25 am, Tim Wescott wrote:
Thought 1: "Welding rod machines pretty nice"
Thought 3: "Never again will I buy a Smithy"

As a "mill", the Smithy just can't compare to the real milling machines
I've used.

The tail stock doesn't overhang, and the cross-feed slide is wide, so
you can't turn a shaft between centers all in one go -- at least not
unless I go buy an MT3 extension for the tail stock, which will make it
flexible.

The compound jib tapers a bit, so if I get it adjusted right for being
fully in it binds when it's fully out; if I loosen it to where it
doesn't bind when it's out then it's loose as all hell when it's fully in.

Having said all of that, for general lathe work it's not an unreasonable
machine.

So I bitch about it, and one of these days I'll get a real milling
machine, hopefully followed by a better lathe.

Tim Wescott

When I had the choice of turning parts on a CNC lathe, a Smithy
Granite or taking them home to my South Bend I usually chose the
Smithy. The 10" South Bend is *much* nicer to use but not really that
much more capable. Mine has the same issues you mention. The crossfeed
ways are worn so that the gibs can't be adjusted snug everywhere, and
the tool bit can be set to approach either the headstock or the
tailstock but not easily both, unless I run the tailstock spindle out
so far it's loose. On that lathe it's loose in any position anyway.

I get around the problem by extending the raw stock out a ways from
the collet, supporting it with the tailstock, and setting the bit on
the RH side of the post. The only real advantage of collets over a
chuck here is that collets aren't a big saw blade spinning next to my
left elbow. It takes some fussing to set up to turn the entire length
of a shaft. Usually I have to use the carriage stop because the
carriage barely clears the chuck jaws or faceplate if the bit will
reach the tail center. It's easier with collets.

I never milled with the Smithy. The gears are stripped and there was a
CNC Bridgeport nearby. As a lathe I could probably learn to live with
it.

The CNC lathe was very awkward for cutting existing parts to scribe
marks. It was the right machine to make new parts from CAD drawings. I
don't think I could stand it for cut-to-fit repairs and
modifications.

I have a good assortment of welding rod for turning and blacksmithing.
Among other things the stainless makes good rustproof needle bearings
and the 3/16" and 1/4" mild steel are large enough to weld together or
forge small tools out of. The brass was considerably cheaper at a
welding supplier than from a hobby store.

Some batches of water pipe machine well too and there are a few
convenient dimensions for machine parts. The ID of 3/8" pipe is
slightly under 0.500" and I use it for brass bushings and journals.
Likewise 1/4" pipe is just under 3/8" ID and 1/2" pipe is almost 5/8".
3/4" pipe telescopes into 1" pipe if you bore out the welding flash.
1" fits more loosely into 1-1/4". You can bore a 1-1/4" cap to a close
fit on the 1" pipe to steady it. To tighten the inside screw a fitting
onto the 1" pipe and then turn it down to sliding fit, with a groove
for the flash.

This style of tool post works well with HSS bits because you can angle
them any way you want on either side of the post and thus reach
further in both directions.
http://www.tools4cheap.net/proddetail.php?prod=40pos
These imports are well made and the holders fit my Swiss Multifix
center post perfectly. The steps are 9 degrees apart, so as long as
you grind the point angle to 80 degrees or sharper you can set the
bits to both turn and face at one setting, in a straight holder.
There's less advantage with carbide since the bits, inserts and
holders will already do that.


Jim Wilkins

Tim, I've read your comments regarding the Smithy machine and your present
shaft project.

Looking thru past RCM posts regarding Smithy machines will give you an idea
of what others have done/do to compensate for the large distance between the
spindle and table.
Another source of info for combo machines is the Chaski 3in1 forum.

Basically, the table's work surface must be raised with something that's
rigid. This is about the only practical approach to working on small parts.

I bought a used Smithy 1220XL machine several years ago, as a second machine
to my 9x20 lathe (had drill press and other machines, also). The XL model
has a larger table than the earlier versions with the small, square table.

The original Smithy owner had used a section of 4x4" 1/8" wall tubing to
elevate the crappy original "angle milling vise", which was barely adequate
to even work with, for crude machining. The add-on X-Y table with the round
base isn't worthwhile either.

I began purchasing various rigid accessories to use on the table that would
enable small parts to be machined with reasonable expectations of accuracy.
A 6" Phase II rotary table, a Palmgren single axis angle table and other
vises/items enable me to machine small parts fairly accurately with
repeatability.

The oddly-slotted table requires additional clamping accessories, some which
can be fabricated easily.

Additionally, the spindle absolutely needs to have an indicator added to see
changes in thousandths, as the dial markings are worthless for anything
other than drilling.

BTW, the x and y dials aren't very useful either, at least on my older
machine with metric leadscrews.

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
Thought 1: "Welding rod machines pretty nice"

Thought 2: "I must be demented, or have low standards"

Thought 3: "Never again will I buy a Smithy"

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html