Does anyone here do metalwork at home? Say in a garage? What does your
insurance company say about it? How did it affect your home insurance rates?
Have they put any restrictions on what you can and cannot do?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Michael Koblic" writes:

Does anyone here do metalwork at home? Say in a garage? What does your
insurance company say about it? How did it affect your home insurance rates?
Have they put any restrictions on what you can and cannot do?

I don't remember my insurance company asking me any questions about
it.

It might depend on where it is in the home, should they find out. Detached garage
shouldn't bother as much as in the basement. You *may* want to be sure that the house is
even covered under such conditions. Some may have a clause restricting any commercial
activities. Check your home owner's association. They may be way tougher than the
insurance companies some time.

--------


Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
"Michael Koblic" writes:

Does anyone here do metalwork at home? Say in a garage? What does your
insurance company say about it? How did it affect your home insurance rates?
Have they put any restrictions on what you can and cannot do?

I don't remember my insurance company asking me any questions about
it.

Al Patrick writes:

It might depend on where it is in the home, should they find out.
Detached garage shouldn't bother as much as in the basement. You
*may* want to be sure that the house is even covered under such
conditions. Some may have a clause restricting any commercial
activities. Check your home owner's association. They may be way
tougher than the insurance companies some time.

The HOA would be a very different animal than the insurance
company... and the concern with them would be complaints before the
house burned down, not after. That actually brings up a short story:
a while ago, a neighbor asked me if I'd mind if he put up carport in
front of his garage. I looked at him blankly, and he reminded me that
it's a violation of the covenants in our neighborhood. I said, "oh,
yeah -- see that metal shed in my back yard?" I figure nobody in the
neighborhood can complain about anybody else, because we're all in
violation of the convenants somehow.

As for coverage in the event of a fire... hmm... maybe I should read
my policy.

Thankfully we do not have HOAs here.

The issue would not have arisen had I not been in the process of renewing my
policy and the question of "home business" came up. I have sold some of my
pieces to the total of less than $100 in a year. I did not set out to profit
from what I do. Calling it "business" is somewhat presumptious.

Now I am waiting for the insurance company to clarify their position via the
broker.

I do not see much point speculating on the outcome, but I was interested
what others' experience was in this direction.

Will they stop me doing what I do if I sell the stuff, i.e. is it OK if i
keep it or give it away? Will they put restricitions on the level of income?
Will they put restrictions on the type of process that can be employed, e.g
welding?

I shall know in a few days.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
Al Patrick writes:

It might depend on where it is in the home, should they find out.
Detached garage shouldn't bother as much as in the basement. You
*may* want to be sure that the house is even covered under such
conditions. Some may have a clause restricting any commercial
activities. Check your home owner's association. They may be way
tougher than the insurance companies some time.

The HOA would be a very different animal than the insurance
company... and the concern with them would be complaints before the
house burned down, not after. That actually brings up a short story:
a while ago, a neighbor asked me if I'd mind if he put up carport in
front of his garage. I looked at him blankly, and he reminded me that
it's a violation of the covenants in our neighborhood. I said, "oh,
yeah -- see that metal shed in my back yard?" I figure nobody in the
neighborhood can complain about anybody else, because we're all in
violation of the convenants somehow.

As for coverage in the event of a fire... hmm... maybe I should read
my policy.

"Michael Koblic" wrote:

Does anyone here do metalwork at home? Say in a garage? What does your
insurance company say about it? How did it affect your home insurance rates?
Have they put any restrictions on what you can and cannot do?


The biggest issue is do you machine for people for cash. That puts you in a different
category of insured. Using home insurance for a garage business is going to give you
grief if chit happens.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Jul 17, 1:24*am, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
Thankfully we do not have HOAs here.

The issue would not have arisen had I not been in the process of renewing my
policy and the question of "home business" came up. I have sold some of my
pieces to the total of less than $100 in a year. I did not set out to profit
from what I do. Calling it "business" is somewhat presumptious.

At least in the US, the IRS is perfectly clear about this for their
deduction purposes: such an activity, operated at a loss over several
years, is clearly a hobby to them.

e.g. http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...169490,00.html

Of course this is probably not the determining factor in local
business permits, zoning laws, etc.

Tim.

Michael Koblic wrote:

Thankfully we do not have HOAs here.

The issue would not have arisen had I not been in the process of renewing my
policy and the question of "home business" came up. I have sold some of my
pieces to the total of less than $100 in a year. I did not set out to profit
from what I do. Calling it "business" is somewhat presumptious.

Now I am waiting for the insurance company to clarify their position via the
broker.

I do not see much point speculating on the outcome, but I was interested
what others' experience was in this direction.

Will they stop me doing what I do if I sell the stuff, i.e. is it OK if i
keep it or give it away? Will they put restricitions on the level of income?
Will they put restrictions on the type of process that can be employed, e.g
welding?

I shall know in a few days.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
Al Patrick writes:

It might depend on where it is in the home, should they find out.
Detached garage shouldn't bother as much as in the basement. You
*may* want to be sure that the house is even covered under such
conditions. Some may have a clause restricting any commercial
activities. Check your home owner's association. They may be way
tougher than the insurance companies some time.

The HOA would be a very different animal than the insurance
company... and the concern with them would be complaints before the
house burned down, not after. That actually brings up a short story:
a while ago, a neighbor asked me if I'd mind if he put up carport in
front of his garage. I looked at him blankly, and he reminded me that
it's a violation of the covenants in our neighborhood. I said, "oh,
yeah -- see that metal shed in my back yard?" I figure nobody in the
neighborhood can complain about anybody else, because we're all in
violation of the convenants somehow.

As for coverage in the event of a fire... hmm... maybe I should read
my policy.

If I recall, the IRS doesn't care about misc. income under $600/yr, so
neither should your insurance company. One thing I do recommend,
independent of everything else, is to get a PLUP a.k.a. Personal
Liability Umbrella Policy. A PLUP is generally quite inexpensive and
gives you an added layer of liability protection that covers essentially
anything but intentional acts.

Michael Koblic wrote:
Thankfully we do not have HOAs here.

The issue would not have arisen had I not been in the process of renewing my
policy and the question of "home business" came up. I have sold some of my
pieces to the total of less than $100 in a year. I did not set out to profit
from what I do. Calling it "business" is somewhat presumptious.

Now I am waiting for the insurance company to clarify their position via the
broker.

I do not see much point speculating on the outcome, but I was interested
what others' experience was in this direction.

Will they stop me doing what I do if I sell the stuff, i.e. is it OK if i
keep it or give it away? Will they put restricitions on the level of income?
Will they put restrictions on the type of process that can be employed, e.g
welding?

I shall know in a few days.



Based on what I know of insurance, and that's not a lot, your's should
be considered a hobby since you are not making a living at it. Our tax
laws (U.S.) allow hobbists to make SOME money without having to declare
themselves as a "business" so I would suspect that you would be pretty
much the same. Good luck on your dealings with the insurance company.

Jim

If you are in an incorporated city and you ARE doing business out of your
garage/home (no matter HOW small) and you don't have a business license
there are more people than your insurance company to worry about. Even if
it's not in an incorporated city, the state should want some tax money
too...

IMHO If all you've made is a 100 bucks you should have never even mentiond
it... Insurance companies are NOT your friend, they are a business that
makes money for their investors... now you are directly in their sights and
have given them reasosn to either raise your rates or stick a rider on your
policy that may well nullify your coverage in some cases...

good luck

--.- Dave



"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
rvecommunications...
Thankfully we do not have HOAs here.

The issue would not have arisen had I not been in the process of renewing
my policy and the question of "home business" came up. I have sold some of
my pieces to the total of less than $100 in a year. I did not set out to
profit from what I do. Calling it "business" is somewhat presumptious.

Now I am waiting for the insurance company to clarify their position via
the broker.

I do not see much point speculating on the outcome, but I was interested
what others' experience was in this direction.

Will they stop me doing what I do if I sell the stuff, i.e. is it OK if i
keep it or give it away? Will they put restricitions on the level of
income? Will they put restrictions on the type of process that can be
employed, e.g welding?

I shall know in a few days.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
Al Patrick writes:

It might depend on where it is in the home, should they find out.
Detached garage shouldn't bother as much as in the basement. You
*may* want to be sure that the house is even covered under such
conditions. Some may have a clause restricting any commercial
activities. Check your home owner's association. They may be way
tougher than the insurance companies some time.

The HOA would be a very different animal than the insurance
company... and the concern with them would be complaints before the
house burned down, not after. That actually brings up a short story:
a while ago, a neighbor asked me if I'd mind if he put up carport in
front of his garage. I looked at him blankly, and he reminded me that
it's a violation of the covenants in our neighborhood. I said, "oh,
yeah -- see that metal shed in my back yard?" I figure nobody in the
neighborhood can complain about anybody else, because we're all in
violation of the convenants somehow.

As for coverage in the event of a fire... hmm... maybe I should read
my policy.

Michael Koblic wrote:
Thankfully we do not have HOAs here.

The issue would not have arisen had I not been in the process of renewing my
policy and the question of "home business" came up. I have sold some of my
pieces to the total of less than $100 in a year. I did not set out to profit
from what I do. Calling it "business" is somewhat presumptious.

Less than $100 in a YEAR? That is a HOBBY, by any number of guidelines.
No WAY could that be construed as an actual business, if it is SALES of
$100. (Maybe a net of $100, if you have hopes to "make it up on volume"
could be different.)

Now I am waiting for the insurance company to clarify their position via the
broker.

I do not see much point speculating on the outcome, but I was interested
what others' experience was in this direction.

Will they stop me doing what I do if I sell the stuff, i.e. is it OK if i
keep it or give it away? Will they put restricitions on the level of income?
Will they put restrictions on the type of process that can be employed, e.g
welding?
Yeah, welding may make a difference, but if it is clearly a hobby activity,
as yours seems to be, then I think they have to prove their case.

Jon

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:23:18 GMT, Jim Chandler wrote:

Michael Koblic wrote:
Thankfully we do not have HOAs here.

The issue would not have arisen had I not been in the process of renewing my
policy and the question of "home business" came up. I have sold some of my
pieces to the total of less than $100 in a year. I did not set out to profit
from what I do. Calling it "business" is somewhat presumptious.

Now I am waiting for the insurance company to clarify their position via the
broker.

I do not see much point speculating on the outcome, but I was interested
what others' experience was in this direction.

Will they stop me doing what I do if I sell the stuff, i.e. is it OK if i
keep it or give it away? Will they put restricitions on the level of income?
Will they put restrictions on the type of process that can be employed, e.g
welding?

I shall know in a few days.



Based on what I know of insurance, and that's not a lot, your's should
be considered a hobby since you are not making a living at it. Our tax
laws (U.S.) allow hobbists to make SOME money without having to declare
themselves as a "business" so I would suspect that you would be pretty
much the same. Good luck on your dealings with the insurance company.

Jim
Taxation practices of the Gov't., and premium setting practices of
insurance companies have no relation to each other. When it costs the
gov't. more to collect, than the amount collected, they are willing to
ignore the source, whereas, with insurance companies, any activity
beyond lying still and breathing will increase their risk and
therefore the premium charged.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

I have been away and my access to e-mail and newgroups was restricted.
It seems that the insurance company is happy not to raise my rates *as long
as I do all my soldering and welding at least 25 feet away from the house*.
I can see the welding but soldering? They are insane!

The negotiations continue..

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Michael Koblic" wrote:

Does anyone here do metalwork at home? Say in a garage? What does your
insurance company say about it? How did it affect your home insurance
rates?
Have they put any restrictions on what you can and cannot do?


The biggest issue is do you machine for people for cash. That puts you in
a different
category of insured. Using home insurance for a garage business is going
to give you
grief if chit happens.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Jul 22, 8:39*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
I have been away and my access to e-mail and newgroups was restricted.
It seems that the insurance company is happy not to raise my rates *as long
as I do all my soldering and welding at least 25 feet away from the house*.
I can see the welding but soldering? They are insane!

"Soldering" sets off alarm bells in the insurance industry's head
because
of the frequency of plumbers soldering copper pipe in
a house setting the house on fire (despite precautions). There's
probably
some completely unjustifiable panic from lead-in-solder concerns too
(I'm not sure that's reached BC yet but in most US cities there are
extreme precautions that have to be taken when working around
old leaded paint.)

An open flame inches away from studs and wallboard is pretty
problematic, but that's
not what you're doing in your garage at all.

Tim.

Michael Koblic wrote:
I have been away and my access to e-mail and newgroups was restricted.
It seems that the insurance company is happy not to raise my rates *as long
as I do all my soldering and welding at least 25 feet away from the house*.
I can see the welding but soldering? They are insane!

The negotiations continue..

Soldering to an underwriter, as they are looking at the rate rule book,
would also include silver soldering and brazing, in which you would be
using oxy/acetylene welding equipment, which is why the same 25 foot
rule for soldering.
If this is not in line with what you are doing, try reasoning with the
underwriter or his representative.
If, they are in the right frame of mind, they can be reasonable, as long
as they feel their butt is protected, from all those who may later
review their work on your file.
You may get a premises inspection from the underwriter.

I had a meeting with the broker today. It looks like they will restrict the
waiver to welding not within 25 feet of the buildings and leave the
soldering out. I made a specific point that I do not use oxyacetylene.

Either way it is going to be PITA, increasing time and costs of
"production".

I am looking at alternatives, but epoxy will only go so far...

BTW whoever mentioned that it was a mistake admitting to insurance company
the occasional sale was absolutely right. Honesty is definitely not the best
policy in all instances! Now, as far welding is concerned, I am screwed
whether I make the stuff for sale or not.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"R" wrote in message news:6UGhk.325$X2.269@trnddc03...
Michael Koblic wrote:
I have been away and my access to e-mail and newgroups was restricted.
It seems that the insurance company is happy not to raise my rates *as
long as I do all my soldering and welding at least 25 feet away from the
house*.
I can see the welding but soldering? They are insane!

The negotiations continue..

Soldering to an underwriter, as they are looking at the rate rule book,
would also include silver soldering and brazing, in which you would be
using oxy/acetylene welding equipment, which is why the same 25 foot rule
for soldering.
If this is not in line with what you are doing, try reasoning with the
underwriter or his representative.
If, they are in the right frame of mind, they can be reasonable, as long
as they feel their butt is protected, from all those who may later review
their work on your file.
You may get a premises inspection from the underwriter.

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:11:53 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:
snip
BTW whoever mentioned that it was a mistake admitting to insurance company
the occasional sale was absolutely right. Honesty is definitely not the best
policy in all instances! Now, as far welding is concerned, I am screwed
whether I make the stuff for sale or not.
snip
==========
Now if you were a "normal" person that would not waste their
money on tools and instead invest in a 72 inch plasma TV....


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:57:19 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

Now if you were a "normal" person that would not waste their
money on tools and instead invest in a 72 inch plasma TV....

Best check your policy. They (insurance co) have been adding
all sorts of limits for this type of stuff. I suspect ~$5000
set would not be covered unless you had a special rider for
it...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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