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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
Blast from the past?
Last Updated: Friday, November 30, 2007 | 9:55 PM ET CBC News Not since the grunge era and Brian Mulroney's days as prime minister has Canada experienced a winter quite as bitter as the one expected to creep in this December, Environment Canada forecasted on Friday. Alex Pawsey shields herself from the elements with an umbrella while crossing St. George's Square in Guelph, Ont. on Thursday, March 1, 2007. (Canadian Press/ Guelph Mercury/ Darren Calabrese) In its first winter outlook of the year, the agency predicts that until February, climates across most of the country will be the coldest in 15 years, with the exception of a small pocket in southern Ontario. Environment Canada senior climatologist David Phillips said the trend in recent years of uncharacteristically warm, short winters will be wiped out by a chilly reminder of what a real Canadian winter feels like. Although it won't necessarily be "the winter from hell or face-numbing wind chills every time," Phillips said temperature-wise, "we could have conditions that would be perhaps three-quarters or a degree colder than normal." Colder air this year is expected to drive down temperatures. "We think that with La Nina — which encourages more Canadian air, more Siberian air, whatever you want to call it, Alaskan air — it tends to be more of that flow," he said, referring to the phenomenon of lower-than-normal temperatures in the Pacific Ocean. The cooler climate will likely also blanket some cities with snow after years without a white Christmas, he said. Last year, a number of traditionally cold and snow-covered cities such as Quebec City, Ottawa and Timmins, Ont., had their first green Christmas in decades. There are several up-sides to the mercury dipping, Phillips said. Winter sports enthusiasts might embrace the cooler winter, as would businesses that rely on the snow. "I always think it's good for the economy when weather is behaving like it should, when winters are cold and summers are hot," he said, adding more people will likely book holidays to escape the harsh weather. |
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:21:21 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
James quickly quoth: Blast from the past? Last Updated: Friday, November 30, 2007 | 9:55 PM ET CBC News Not since the grunge era and Brian Mulroney's days as prime minister has Canada experienced a winter quite as bitter as the one expected to creep in this December, Environment Canada forecasted on Friday. Damn that global warming(kumbaya). -- An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run. -- Sydney J. Harris |
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
Pray tell, why are you posting a winter weather forecast dated from Nov. 30
on March 2nd? -- Roger Shoaf About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then they come up with this striped stuff. "James" wrote in message ... Blast from the past? Last Updated: Friday, November 30, 2007 | 9:55 PM ET CBC News Not since the grunge era and Brian Mulroney's days as prime minister has Canada experienced a winter quite as bitter as the one expected to creep in this December, Environment Canada forecasted on Friday. Alex Pawsey shields herself from the elements with an umbrella while crossing St. George's Square in Guelph, Ont. on Thursday, March 1, 2007. (Canadian Press/ Guelph Mercury/ Darren Calabrese) In its first winter outlook of the year, the agency predicts that until February, climates across most of the country will be the coldest in 15 years, with the exception of a small pocket in southern Ontario. Environment Canada senior climatologist David Phillips said the trend in recent years of uncharacteristically warm, short winters will be wiped out by a chilly reminder of what a real Canadian winter feels like. Although it won't necessarily be "the winter from hell or face-numbing wind chills every time," Phillips said temperature-wise, "we could have conditions that would be perhaps three-quarters or a degree colder than normal." Colder air this year is expected to drive down temperatures. "We think that with La Nina — which encourages more Canadian air, more Siberian air, whatever you want to call it, Alaskan air — it tends to be more of that flow," he said, referring to the phenomenon of lower-than-normal temperatures in the Pacific Ocean. The cooler climate will likely also blanket some cities with snow after years without a white Christmas, he said. Last year, a number of traditionally cold and snow-covered cities such as Quebec City, Ottawa and Timmins, Ont., had their first green Christmas in decades. There are several up-sides to the mercury dipping, Phillips said. Winter sports enthusiasts might embrace the cooler winter, as would businesses that rely on the snow. "I always think it's good for the economy when weather is behaving like it should, when winters are cold and summers are hot," he said, adding more people will likely book holidays to escape the harsh weather. |
#4
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
Roger Shoaf wrote:
Pray tell, why are you posting a winter weather forecast dated from Nov. 30 on March 2nd? You wouldn't begrudge the lack of timeliness for accuracys sake, would you? --Winston |
#5
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote: Damn that global warming(kumbaya). Are you really going to pretend that you don't know that global warming refers to the year-round temperature of the entire planet as a whole, and isn't refuted by the fact that one geographic location happened to have a cold winter? -- -Ed Falk, http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/ |
#6
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
Edward A. Falk wrote in article ... In article , Larry Jaques wrote: Damn that global warming(kumbaya). Are you really going to pretend that you don't know that global warming refers to the year-round temperature of the entire planet as a whole, and isn't refuted by the fact that one geographic location happened to have a cold winter? .....nor is it "proven" by the fact that one-or-more geographic locations - where official measurement stations have been encroached upon by buildings, pavement, and other heat-generating structures spewing ventilation towards measuring instruments - show an "increase" in temperatures, www.surfacestations.org |
#8
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:21:21 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, James quickly quoth: Blast from the past? Last Updated: Friday, November 30, 2007 | 9:55 PM ET CBC News Not since the grunge era and Brian Mulroney's days as prime minister has Canada experienced a winter quite as bitter as the one expected to creep in this December, Environment Canada forecasted on Friday. Damn that global warming(kumbaya). Edmonton Sun, March 3, 2008: "A winter that was forecasted to be the coldest in 15 years was actually bookended by periods of unseasonably balmy temperatures. "Environment Canada meteorologist Lisa Coldwells said although the middle of the season - which isn't officially over until March 20 - was particularly frigid, this winter has been warmer than average. '"I think what happened is we had a later start to winter because it really didn't start until the end of November, and then by the middle of February it all changed again and we ended up breaking up that arctic air and pushing it into Saskatchewan," said Coldwells. "Last fall, Environment Canada was predicting most of Canada, including Edmonton, would be locked in a La Nina weather effect with the coldest weather seen in at least 15 years." Better luck next time, Larry. d8-) -- Ed Huntress |
#9
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article , Larry Jaques wrote: Damn that global warming(kumbaya). Are you really going to pretend that you don't know that global warming refers to the year-round temperature of the entire planet as a whole, and isn't refuted by the fact that one geographic location happened to have a cold winter? Newsmax.com - February 22, 2008: Global Warming? New Data Shows Ice Is Back Are the world's ice caps melting because of climate change, or are the reports just a lot of scare mongering by the advocates of the global warming theory? Scare mongering appears to be the case, according to reports from the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) that reveal that almost all the allegedly “lost” ice has come back. A NOAA report shows that ice levels which had shrunk from 5 million square miles in January 2007 to just 1.5 million square miles in October, are almost back to their original levels. Moreover, a Feb. 18 report in the London Daily Express showed that there is nearly a third more ice in Antarctica than usual, challenging the global warming crusaders and buttressing arguments of skeptics who deny that the world is undergoing global warming. The Daily express recalls the photograph of polar bears clinging on to a melting iceberg which has been widely hailed as proof of the need to fight climate change and has been used by former Vice President Al Gore during his "Inconvenient Truth" lectures about mankind’s alleged impact on the global climate. Gore fails to mention that the photograph was taken in the month of August when melting is normal. Or that the polar bear population has soared in recent years. As winter roars in across the Northern Hemisphere, Mother Nature seems to have joined the ranks of the skeptics. As the Express notes, scientists are saying the northern Hemisphere has endured its coldest winter in decades, adding that snow cover across the area is at its greatest since 1966. The newspaper cites the one exception — Western Europe, which had, until the weekend when temperatures plunged to as low as -10 C in some places, been basking in unseasonably warm weather. Around the world, vast areas have been buried under some of the heaviest snowfalls in decades. Central and southern China, the United States, and Canada were hit hard by snowstorms. In China, snowfall was so heavy that over 100,000 houses collapsed under the weight of snow. Jerusalem, Damascus, Amman, and northern Saudi Arabia report the heaviest falls in years and below-zero temperatures. In Afghanistan, snow and freezing weather killed 120 people. EvenBaghdad had a snowstorm, the first in the memory of most residents. AFP news reports icy temperatures have just swept through south China, stranding 180,000 people and leading to widespread power cuts just as the area was recovering from the worst weather in 50 years, the government said Monday. The latest cold snap has taken a severe toll in usually temperate Yunnan province, which has been struck by heavy snowfalls since Thursday, a government official from the provincial disaster relief office told AFP. Twelve people have died there, state Xinhua news agency reported, and four remained missing as of Saturday. An ongoing record-long spell of cold weather in Vietnam's northern region, which started on Jan. 14, has killed nearly 60,000 cattle, mainly bull and buffalo calves, local press reported Monday. By Feb. 17, the spell had killed a total of 59,962 cattle in the region, including 7,349 in the Ha Giang province, 6,400 in Lao Cai, and 5,571 in Bac Can province, said Hoang Kim Giao, director of the Animal Husbandry Department under the Vietnamese Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development, according to the Pioneer newspaper. In Britain the temperatures plunged to -10 C in central England, according to the Express, which reports that experts say that February could end up as one of the coldest in Britain in the past 10 years with the freezing night-time conditions expected to stay around a frigid -8 C until at least the middle of the week. And the BBC reports that a bus company's efforts to cut global warming emissions have led to services being disrupted by cold weather. Meanwhile Athens News reports that a raging snow storm that blanketed most of Greece over the weekend and continued into the early morning hours on Monday, plunging the country into sub-zero temperatures. The agency reported that public transport buses were at a standstill on Monday in the wider Athens area, while ships remained in ports, public services remained closed, and schools and courthouses in the more severely-stricken prefectures were also closed. Scores of villages, mainly on the island of Crete, and in the prefectures of Evia, Argolida, Arcadia, Lakonia, Viotia, and the Cyclades islands were snowed in. More than 100 villages were snowed-in on the island of Crete and temperatures in Athens dropped to -6 C before dawn, while the coldest temperatures were recorded in Kozani, Grevena, Kastoria and Florina, where they plunged to -12 C http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/...html?id=332289 http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature...ticle10866.htm -- Steve W. Near Cooperstown, New York |
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
Larry Jaques wrote:
I forgot to add another book. I haven't read it yet, but Dennis Avery and Fred Singer wrote _Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1,500 Years_ http://tinyurl.com/yr9adn Book Description Supported by in-depth scientific evidence, Singer and Avery present the compelling concept that global temperatures have been rising mostly or entirely because of a natural cycle. Unstoppable Global Warming explains why we're warming, why it's not very dangerous, and why we can't stop it anyway. I read this onePretty good but it does get a little(more than a little) repetious. Haven't run the others down yet. Thanks. ...lew... |
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
pyotr filipivich wrote:
I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that (Edward A. Falk) wrote on Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:05:09 +0000 (UTC) in rec.crafts.metalworking : In article , Larry Jaques wrote: Damn that global warming(kumbaya). Are you really going to pretend that you don't know that global warming refers to the year-round temperature of the entire planet as a whole, and isn't refuted by the fact that one geographic location happened to have a cold winter? But when the average temperatures for the year are a half degree centigrade lower than the year before - now that's Global Warming. Err cooling. Quick, someone throw another log on the sun, it seems to be going out. tschus pyotr -- pyotr filipivich "I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'" from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries Well, it SNOWED here in Dallas last night. |
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
cavelamb himself wrote:
Well, it SNOWED here in Dallas last night. And I've had over 10 days this winter without the AC, pus about 10 more where I needed more heat. My electric bills are down for the entire year of 2007, compared to the previous five years. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:32:45 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Lew
Hartswick quickly quoth: Larry Jaques wrote: I forgot to add another book. I haven't read it yet, but Dennis Avery and Fred Singer wrote _Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1,500 Years_ http://tinyurl.com/yr9adn Book Description Supported by in-depth scientific evidence, Singer and Avery present the compelling concept that global temperatures have been rising mostly or entirely because of a natural cycle. Unstoppable Global Warming explains why we're warming, why it's not very dangerous, and why we can't stop it anyway. I read this onePretty good but it does get a little(more than a little) repetious. Haven't run the others down yet. Thanks. ...lew... Jewelcome. Here ya go, a perfect second read: $6.36 delivered, used (happily recycled) http://tinyurl.com/26ce5g Peter Huber's _Hard Green_ -- I am Dyslexic of Borg. Prepare to have your arse laminated. --Troy P, usenet |
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:59:55 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: cavelamb himself wrote: Well, it SNOWED here in Dallas last night. And I've had over 10 days this winter without the AC, pus about 10 more where I needed more heat. My electric bills are down for the entire year of 2007, compared to the previous five years. Butsh's Fault!!!! chuckle Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#16
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message ... In article , Larry Jaques wrote: Damn that global warming(kumbaya). Are you really going to pretend that you don't know that global warming refers to the year-round temperature of the entire planet as a whole, and isn't refuted by the fact that one geographic location happened to have a cold winter? -- -Ed Falk, http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/ It wasn't all that cold in my part of Canada! I had flowers blooming all winter. Steve R. -- Reply address munged to bugger up spammers |
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 03:22:48 GMT, "Steve R." wrote:
"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message ... In article , Larry Jaques wrote: Damn that global warming(kumbaya). Are you really going to pretend that you don't know that global warming refers to the year-round temperature of the entire planet as a whole, and isn't refuted by the fact that one geographic location happened to have a cold winter? -- -Ed Falk, http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/ It wasn't all that cold in my part of Canada! I had flowers blooming all winter. Steve R. Midnight Jan. 7 I took pictures of dew worms crawling on the driveway. The temperature was +14 deg.C. Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:20:16 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth: On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:59:55 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: cavelamb himself wrote: Well, it SNOWED here in Dallas last night. And I've had over 10 days this winter without the AC, pus about 10 more where I needed more heat. My electric bills are down for the entire year of 2007, compared to the previous five years. Butsh's Fault!!!! chuckle My heating and A/C bills have been 20% lower since last summer, too, with no change at all in the thermostat settings for any of the 4 pre-programmed time periods each day. -- I am Dyslexic of Borg. Prepare to have your arse laminated. --Troy P, usenet |
#19
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:33:28 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:20:16 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner Asch quickly quoth: On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:59:55 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: cavelamb himself wrote: Well, it SNOWED here in Dallas last night. And I've had over 10 days this winter without the AC, pus about 10 more where I needed more heat. My electric bills are down for the entire year of 2007, compared to the previous five years. Butsh's Fault!!!! chuckle My heating and A/C bills have been 20% lower since last summer, too, with no change at all in the thermostat settings for any of the 4 pre-programmed time periods each day. Bush's Fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#20
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:33:28 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:20:16 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner Asch quickly quoth: On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:59:55 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: cavelamb himself wrote: Well, it SNOWED here in Dallas last night. And I've had over 10 days this winter without the AC, pus about 10 more where I needed more heat. My electric bills are down for the entire year of 2007, compared to the previous five years. Butsh's Fault!!!! chuckle My heating and A/C bills have been 20% lower since last summer, too, with no change at all in the thermostat settings for any of the 4 pre-programmed time periods each day. Bush's Fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gunner Nope. It was a cold day in hell - and chilly here too. The Hildabeaste won |
#21
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:01:06 -0600, cavelamb himself
wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:33:28 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:20:16 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner Asch quickly quoth: On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:59:55 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: cavelamb himself wrote: Well, it SNOWED here in Dallas last night. And I've had over 10 days this winter without the AC, pus about 10 more where I needed more heat. My electric bills are down for the entire year of 2007, compared to the previous five years. Butsh's Fault!!!! chuckle My heating and A/C bills have been 20% lower since last summer, too, with no change at all in the thermostat settings for any of the 4 pre-programmed time periods each day. Bush's Fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gunner Nope. It was a cold day in hell - and chilly here too. The Hildabeaste won Good! The longer she and Obama butt heads, the more money they have to spend out of their warchests, and the nastier their campaigns get. Quite frankly..would you rather it be a Marxist in November that nobody hates, or a Socialist that everybody hates, running for President? Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#22
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:01:06 -0600, cavelamb himself wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:33:28 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:20:16 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner Asch quickly quoth: On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:59:55 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: cavelamb himself wrote: Well, it SNOWED here in Dallas last night. And I've had over 10 days this winter without the AC, pus about 10 more where I needed more heat. My electric bills are down for the entire year of 2007, compared to the previous five years. Butsh's Fault!!!! chuckle My heating and A/C bills have been 20% lower since last summer, too, with no change at all in the thermostat settings for any of the 4 pre-programmed time periods each day. Bush's Fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gunner Nope. It was a cold day in hell - and chilly here too. The Hildabeaste won Good! The longer she and Obama butt heads, the more money they have to spend out of their warchests, and the nastier their campaigns get. Quite frankly..would you rather it be a Marxist in November that nobody hates, or a Socialist that everybody hates, running for President? Gunner None of the above... |
#23
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:05:09 +0000 (UTC), with neither quill nor qualm, (Edward A. Falk) quickly quoth: In article , Larry Jaques wrote: Damn that global warming(kumbaya). Are you really going to pretend that you don't know that global warming refers to the year-round temperature of the entire planet as a whole, and isn't refuted by the fact that one geographic location happened to have a cold winter? Are you going to pretend that my statement wasn't a joke? If you're in fear of the climate changes, here is a list of books to set your mind at ease. I posted this to Lew earlier this month: P.S: Leo and Mark never did show any proof for their fears. That's typical of the fearmongering alarmists these days. sigh --snip-- Larry, What was that list of books again? I meant to write thos down and read but now I forget what thread it was on. This time I'll copy and paste it. Thanks. ...lew... Google for any of the authors and it'll bring up all their great stuff. Huber, Horner, and Lomborg are the best of the best. From several posts in the "lead" thread: I'm currently reading Horner's _A Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming and Environmentalism_. I strongly suggest that you purchase a copy and research his fidings so you can positively refute Al Gore's statements, just as many other scientists (the other "consensus") have. Horner devotes an entire chapter to Gore. If that doesn't suit you, try any of the dozens of books by Bjorn Lomborg, Patrick Michaels, Fred Singer, Peter Huber, or dozens of other deniers of your alarmism. Or read anything from the bibliography of Crichton's _State of Fear_. I double-dog-dare ya, Leo, to prove (or disprove) it to yourself! (I had forgotten that it was Leo, too, not just Mark Rand, who was on the false consensus side.) --- Stretch evidence to the fact that Global Warming(kumbaya) is all manmade and is going to kill us and you can have your own Nobel Peace Prize, too. Note that even in your country, they can't show Gore's film in schools without a disclaimer of the 9 major errors (aka LIES) in it. I wonder what he thinks of the volcano under Antarctica... And how do you explain that the ice on the other 90% of Antarctica (and Greenland) is thickening during all this nasty and blatant "warming", hmm? Whatever happened to scientists being their own skeptics? sigh Global Warming(kumbaya) climate models have holes miles wide in them. Why are the alarmists continuing to reduce their scare figures? Because newer, better data still doesn't support their claims. C'mon, guys. I dare you to do the research and prove the deniers wrong! --- Louis Ohland wrote provided these links: Sir, allow the powers of technology to address your concerns: Global Warming - Doomsday Called Off (1/5) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr5O1HsTVgA Global Warming - Doomsday Called Off (2/5) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD6VBLlWmCI&NR=1 Global Warming - Doomsday Called Off (3/5) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZS2eIRkcR0&NR=1 Global Warming - Doomsday Called Off (4/5) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIbTJ6mhCqk&NR=1 Global Warming - Doomsday Called Off (5/5) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2XALmrq3ro&NR=1 If you haven't the time to watch it, let me give you the short version. Global warming is a scam. Mark Rand wrote: You're denying the accepted scientific position, justify your denial... (To which I added: I love John Christy's ending statement: "When one talks about climate models and observations, I'm reminded of a climate scientist one time who said 'My model is right. It's the real world which is wrong.' And I think that's what we've seen in many cases. And, so, using observations is not as exotic, it is not as dramatic in many cases, and, uh, occupies sort of a lower level in the climate hierarchy of who gets attention. Because climate modeling enterprizes are very expensive, so they have to have these constituencies built up that seek to maintain their, um, work. Observationalists generally do not have that, uh, same attention, and so developing the observational data sets is sort of the weak sister in the climate community, yet climate observations are supposed to represent the truth, not the theory, against which our theory is to be checked. I believe in observations and that this is where our basis for climate change should be understood, and the perspective from which we should see the future. If you look at the past, I don't think the perspective of the future is all that bad." I think he meant "projection (or prospects) for the future" in that last sentence.) --- I forgot to add another book. I haven't read it yet, but Dennis Avery and Fred Singer wrote _Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1,500 Years_ http://tinyurl.com/yr9adn Book Description Supported by in-depth scientific evidence, Singer and Avery present the compelling concept that global temperatures have been rising mostly or entirely because of a natural cycle. Unstoppable Global Warming explains why we're warming, why it's not very dangerous, and why we can't stop it anyway. - Kindly note that not one single global warming(kumbaya) believer here has acknowledged any of the data in any of those books nor have they provided cites to disprove any of the data. That's probably because they can't. (I'll leave it up to the reader to discern what I meant by that. --snip-- -- An idealist believes the short run doesn't count. A cynic believes the long run doesn't matter. A realist believes that what is done or left undone in the short run determines the long run. -- Sydney J. Harris Could you let us know what books you have read by reputable climate scientists who do believe that the accepted fact of a warming planet is caused by man. There is a huge amount of data from climate scientists that support the view that the warming of the planet is caused by man. Maybe they think that the increase of carbon in the atmosphere from 280 ppm before the industrial revolution to 380 ppm now is the result of burning fossil fuels. You have a few sources making the case there is no man made global warming but you don't seem to have any that support the other side of the question. If you expect anyone to believe your data you better have what the other side has to show too. You seem to have neglected that. Could it be that your political view determined your scientific one? Because from what I have seen the only people who don't think man is making the planet hotter are right wingers. Isn't that true? Got any anti global warming research from "liberal" scientists? Or are all your scientists former employees of tobacco companies? Hawke |
#24
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message ... pyotr filipivich wrote: I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that (Edward A. Falk) wrote on Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:05:09 +0000 (UTC) in rec.crafts.metalworking : In article , Larry Jaques wrote: Damn that global warming(kumbaya). Are you really going to pretend that you don't know that global warming refers to the year-round temperature of the entire planet as a whole, and isn't refuted by the fact that one geographic location happened to have a cold winter? But when the average temperatures for the year are a half degree centigrade lower than the year before - now that's Global Warming. Err cooling. Quick, someone throw another log on the sun, it seems to be going out. tschus pyotr -- pyotr filipivich "I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'" from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries Well, it SNOWED here in Dallas last night. I guess that settles it then. What more proof do you need that there is no global warming than that? Who needs science when we have this kind of proof? Hawke |
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
"Hawke" wrote in message ... "cavelamb himself" wrote in message ... pyotr filipivich wrote: I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that (Edward A. Falk) wrote on Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:05:09 +0000 (UTC) in rec.crafts.metalworking : In article , Larry Jaques wrote: Damn that global warming(kumbaya). Are you really going to pretend that you don't know that global warming refers to the year-round temperature of the entire planet as a whole, and isn't refuted by the fact that one geographic location happened to have a cold winter? But when the average temperatures for the year are a half degree centigrade lower than the year before - now that's Global Warming. Err cooling. Quick, someone throw another log on the sun, it seems to be going out. tschus pyotr -- pyotr filipivich "I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender whether they served zombies he said, 'Sure, what'll you have?'" from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries Well, it SNOWED here in Dallas last night. I guess that settles it then. What more proof do you need that there is no global warming than that? Who needs science when we have this kind of proof? Hawke And yesterday the ice cubes in vodka tonics didn't melt for *two hours* in Clearwater, Florida. I have it on good authority. d8-) -- Ed Huntress |
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:16:27 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote: Good! The longer she and Obama butt heads, the more money they have to spend out of their warchests, and the nastier their campaigns get. Quite frankly..would you rather it be a Marxist in November that nobody hates, or a Socialist that everybody hates, running for President? Gunner How come Condi hasn't entered the race, or is she planning a last minute effort? Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
#27
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Coldest winter in 15 years, Environment Canada says
I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that "Steve R."
wrote on Wed, 05 Mar 2008 03:22:48 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking : "Edward A. Falk" wrote in message ... In article , Larry Jaques wrote: Damn that global warming(kumbaya). Are you really going to pretend that you don't know that global warming refers to the year-round temperature of the entire planet as a whole, and isn't refuted by the fact that one geographic location happened to have a cold winter? -- -Ed Falk, http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/ It wasn't all that cold in my part of Canada! I had flowers blooming all winter. Listening to a lecture from Eagle river Alaska. The guy lives in northern Idaho, and said that when he arrive in Anchorage, it was the warmest place he'd been on the entire trip. Make of it what you will. And the electric co-op informs me that last year the average low and high was 36 and 45 degrees Fahrenheit. This year, it was 35 and 43. No wonder my bill soared to $33 a month! tschus pyotr -- pyotr filipivich "I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'" from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries |
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