I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100 years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't seem to cut very
well too, and I'm guessing the pores are filled with dirt and dross. I've
read about techniques to clean the surface (such as a good long soak in an
oil dissolving cleaner and baking in a stove) and I had been planning to go
at the surface with a diamond grit flat stone of similar width. Has anyone
had any experience (good or bad) with rejuvenating an old timer like this?

'preciate your comments...

Cheers.

Michael

--
Message posted via CraftKB.com
http://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forums.as...rking/200801/1

Do you know of someone that works rocks into jewelry? Or a local rockbound
club, or maybe a university/community college that has rock saws and
'lapping' wheels? A little time with a lapping wheel and the right lapping
compound will dress your stone very nicely.

--
J Miller
"toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe wrote in message
news:7d96909827599@uwe...
I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100 years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't seem to cut
very
well too, and I'm guessing the pores are filled with dirt and dross. I've
read about techniques to clean the surface (such as a good long soak in an
oil dissolving cleaner and baking in a stove) and I had been planning to
go
at the surface with a diamond grit flat stone of similar width. Has anyone
had any experience (good or bad) with rejuvenating an old timer like this?

'preciate your comments...

Cheers.

Michael

--
Message posted via CraftKB.com
http://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forums.as...rking/200801/1

How about a surface grinder ? Seems like that would be ok -
Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


John Miller wrote:
Do you know of someone that works rocks into jewelry? Or a local rockbound
club, or maybe a university/community college that has rock saws and
'lapping' wheels? A little time with a lapping wheel and the right lapping
compound will dress your stone very nicely.

toolman946 via CraftKB.com wrote:
I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100 years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't seem to cut very
well too, and I'm guessing the pores are filled with dirt and dross. I've
read about techniques to clean the surface (such as a good long soak in an
oil dissolving cleaner and baking in a stove) and I had been planning to go
at the surface with a diamond grit flat stone of similar width. Has anyone
had any experience (good or bad) with rejuvenating an old timer like this?

I can say with great certainty that baking out an abrasive stone can fail
spectacularly. I tried once, setting it near the coals in an outdoor fire.
After some time I heard a loud crack, and discovered my stone in about six
pieces.

I don't recommend that.

Grant

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Jan 1, 9:30 pm, "John Miller" wrote:
Do you know of someone that works rocks into jewelry? Or a local rockbound
club, or maybe a university/community college that has rock saws and
'lapping' wheels? A little time with a lapping wheel and the right lapping
compound will dress your stone very nicely.

--
J Miller
"toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe wrote in messagenews:7d96909827599@uwe...

I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100 years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't seem to cut
very
well too, and I'm guessing the pores are filled with dirt and dross. I've
read about techniques to clean the surface (such as a good long soak in an
oil dissolving cleaner and baking in a stove) and I had been planning to
go
at the surface with a diamond grit flat stone of similar width. Has anyone
had any experience (good or bad) with rejuvenating an old timer like this?

'preciate your comments...

Cheers.

Michael

--
Message posted via CraftKB.com
http://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forums.as...rking/200801/1

I have flattened other stones simply by sitting down in my driveway
and rubbing the stone on the concrete with a bit of running water. May
work for your stone, too. I use carb or brake cleaner to remove the
old oil and crud

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
.. .
toolman946 via CraftKB.com wrote:
I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100
years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't seem to cut
very
well too, and I'm guessing the pores are filled with dirt and dross. I've
read about techniques to clean the surface (such as a good long soak in
an
oil dissolving cleaner and baking in a stove) and I had been planning to
go
at the surface with a diamond grit flat stone of similar width. Has
anyone
had any experience (good or bad) with rejuvenating an old timer like
this?

I can say with great certainty that baking out an abrasive stone can fail
spectacularly. I tried once, setting it near the coals in an outdoor fire.
After some time I heard a loud crack, and discovered my stone in about six
pieces.

I don't recommend that.

Grant

Was that a natural stone or a synthetic one, Grant? I've heard some say that
natural stones may break from heat, but never a synthetic one (India or
Crystolon). I've baked the latter myself on three occassions -- old stones
that I bought at garage sales -- with no breaks, but with a very
satisfactory cleaning of the stone.

I'm hesitant to try it with my valuable hard Arkansas stones, but other
people have done it. Do you think that the uneven heating of the coals may
have contributed to it?

--
Ed Huntress

"toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe wrote in message
news:7d96909827599@uwe...
I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100 years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't seem to cut
very
well too, and I'm guessing the pores are filled with dirt and dross. I've
read about techniques to clean the surface (such as a good long soak in
an
oil dissolving cleaner and baking in a stove) and I had been planning to
go
at the surface with a diamond grit flat stone of similar width. Has
anyone
had any experience (good or bad) with rejuvenating an old timer like
this?

'preciate your comments...

Cheers.

Michael

My diamond blade tile saw has diamonds up the sides about 1 1/4". I would
think that one could carefully touch the stone to the sides of the spinning
blade and come up with a flat surface. That would depend, of course on the
total size of the stone and the throat of the tile cutter.. One could mount
the stone to the rolling tray so as to only shave off 1/16 or so on each
pass. It's hard to say without seeing it, but I have seen cutting wheels
that the diamonds run up the sides for quite a ways.

Other than that, maybe a carbide router blade?

Steve

Steve

On Jan 1, 10:23 pm, "toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe wrote:
I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100 years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't seem to cut very
well too, and I'm guessing the pores are filled with dirt and dross. I've
read about techniques to clean the surface (such as a good long soak in an
oil dissolving cleaner and baking in a stove) and I had been planning to go
at the surface with a diamond grit flat stone of similar width. Has anyone
had any experience (good or bad) with rejuvenating an old timer like this?

'preciate your comments...

Cheers.

Michael

--
Message posted via CraftKB.comhttp://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/metalworking/200801/1

Go here, join, and do a search. If you can't find the answer ask,
someone should know. Look in mantainance.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/index.php
Karl

Was that a natural stone or a synthetic one, Grant? I've heard some say that
natural stones may break from heat, but never a synthetic one (India or
Crystolon). I've baked the latter myself on three occassions -- old stones
that I bought at garage sales -- with no breaks, but with a very
satisfactory cleaning of the stone.

I'm hesitant to try it with my valuable hard Arkansas stones, but other
people have done it. Do you think that the uneven heating of the coals may
have contributed to it?

I can't say I remember, Ed. How did you do the baking?

Grant

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Ed Huntress" wrote: (clip) Do you think that the uneven heating of the
coals may
have contributed to it?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No question. High temperature does not produce thermal stress, as long as
it's even.

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
.. .

Was that a natural stone or a synthetic one, Grant? I've heard some say
that natural stones may break from heat, but never a synthetic one (India
or Crystolon). I've baked the latter myself on three occassions -- old
stones that I bought at garage sales -- with no breaks, but with a very
satisfactory cleaning of the stone.

I'm hesitant to try it with my valuable hard Arkansas stones, but other
people have done it. Do you think that the uneven heating of the coals
may have contributed to it?

I can't say I remember, Ed. How did you do the baking?

I put them in a steel baking pan lined with aluminum foil and stuck them in
a cold oven, which I turned up to 275 deg. F. I left the first one in for
around a half-hour; that wasn't long enough, as I found out later when I
re-baked it for close to an hour and a lot more gunk came out.

One of those stones was badly glazed and it came out pretty clean the first
time. After a year of use, with frequent oiling (I make honing oil from 10%
motor oil and 90% kerosene), I baked it again, and it came out like it was
new. I had to air out the house for a week, however, and to live in the
doghouse for a while. d8-)

Those were old Crystolon (Norton's silicon carbide) stones. All together, I
guess I've done this on five or six occasions with those three old stones.
I've never let the ones I bought new myself get to the state where they
needed baking. I just flood them with honing oil at the end of each use and
wipe them off good with a paper towel. My fine India stones are still clean
after...uh, maybe 50 years of frequent use.

--
Ed Huntress

On Jan 1, 7:23*pm, "toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe wrote:
I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100 years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't seem to cut very
well too, and I'm guessing the pores are filled with dirt and dross.

Natural stones from Arkansas are alumina or emery (alumina with
magnetite, so they're black), so a diamond hone will dress the
surface.
Don't do that until you've cleaned it, though. I'd start with hot
soapy
water, then rub vigorously with a good quality plastic eraser (in my
experience, this removes surface gum and glaze), work it against
a cheapo (dollar store) gray stone for a bit, and finish with a
few strokes against a diamond hone.

I wouldn't try to flatten it, and a few nicks don't hurt the
operation.
Remember, only if the nick is as big as your bevel will the blade
alter course going over it!

I use my natural stones with a little soapy water, and they don't seem
to
clog. Oil has never worked well for me.

wrote:
Go here, join, and do a search. If you can't find the answer ask,
someone should know. Look in mantainance.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/index.php
Karl

Thanks Karl, this looks like a very interesting link.

And thanks to all for your suggestions and sharing of your experiences. I
wasn't keen on baking an oily stone in the oven and I'm certainly not going
to do it now. It's too cold up here (north of the 49th parallel) to try and
air my house out for a week!

I have a number of concrete and stone saws (too aggressive) and the meanest
diamond chip, angle faced "concrete planing" attachment I've ever seen...
that bolts to a 7" angle grinder. I can't imagine what that bad boy costs at
retail, but I was lucky to get it free at a local pawnshop 'cuz it was
attached to a good Dewalt grinder I was buying and the pawnbroker didn't know
what to make of the disk. It's designed for flattening uneven concrete prior
to tile or wood flooring. It has so much mass that it acts like a flywheel
when I spark up the grinder and you have to have a white knuckle grip on it
until it finds its balance, once up to speed. It cuts like a demon but can
leave a glass smooth finish with the proper technique. Absent a better method,
I think I'll cobble together a jig of some sort so I can control the cut and
keep the tool and stone in a parallel plane.

Since the stone is so old, and because of the sentimental value, I want to be
careful with it and wondered if there was a better alternative. I think the
diamond grinder will be the way to go.

Thanks to all for your input.

Cheers

--
Message posted via http://www.craftkb.com

whit3rd wrote:
I'd start with hot soapy water, then rub vigorously with a good quality plastic eraser (in my
experience, this removes surface gum and glaze), work it against
a cheapo (dollar store) gray stone for a bit, and finish with a
few strokes against a diamond hone.

Good suggestions. I was going to give it a wash with TSP or some similar
degreaser. I hadn't thought of an eraser but it's worth a try.

I wouldn't try to flatten it, and a few nicks don't hurt the
operation.
Remember, only if the nick is as big as your bevel will the blade
alter course going over it!

There's some nicks on the edge that alter the face enough that I want to
remove or reduce them. The face isn't nicked or gouged but it's not really
flat. I wonder if it ever was? It almost looks like it was rough hewn and
didn't get much finishing when it was first made. I know my grandfather
didn't have much money to buy expensive tools just after the war (dub-ya dub-
ya 1). It's possible he bought it as a "second" or some such thing. His
skills more than compensated for mediocre equipment.

I use my natural stones with a little soapy water, and they don't seem to clog. Oil has never worked well for me.

I never felt like oil did anything on this stone, but I hardly ever used it
'cuz it was a poor performer. I think it's dirty and glazed and I'm hoping
it'll spruce up with some TLC.

Thanks for your comments.

Cheers.

--
Message posted via http://www.craftkb.com

First, a comment on the aggressiveness of the cut. A hard black
arkansas is the last in the series of arkansas stones that you use to
sharpen a blade. You would start with a wa****a, then a white and
finally a hard black. The hard black is for putting a final mirror-
finish razor-sharp edge on a blade. It removes very little material
because of its fine grain. Your belief that it is not cutting well
may be wrong if you are trying to use it for the initial sharpening.

There are two primary home-brew methods for flattening a stone. The
first is rub it on a diamond hone of the same size or bigger. This is
the more expensive option. The other method is to use silicon carbide
grit or silicon carbide paper on a piece of float glass or surface
plate. The stone is rubbed on the surface until it is flat. I have
heard that using the grit is faster, but it will eventually wear a
hollow in the glass plate. Using paper protects the glass. The
silicon carbide appoach is slower than the diamond and depending on
how much material must be removed may take a significant amount of
paper or grit.

I would not use a wheel grinder to flatten the stone as I believe that
it would be too hard to control and could possibly ruin the stone in a
few seconds. You also need to consider the type of blades you are
sharpening as to how flat the stone should be. If you are sharpening
plane irons or chisels, the stone should be dead flat. If you are
just sharpening your pocket knife the hollow is probably
inconsequential.

I forgot to mention what I found to be the best method of cleaning
sharpening stones. I dump the stone in my ultrasonic cleaner for a
short period of time. After removing the stone from the cleaner I
gently heat it with a hand-held heat gun. You can also set them out
in the sun on a warm day.

In article
,
" wrote:

On Jan 1, 10:23 pm, "toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe wrote:
I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100 years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't seem to cut
very
well too, and I'm guessing the pores are filled with dirt and dross. I've
read about techniques to clean the surface (such as a good long soak in an
oil dissolving cleaner and baking in a stove) and I had been planning to go
at the surface with a diamond grit flat stone of similar width. Has anyone
had any experience (good or bad) with rejuvenating an old timer like this?

'preciate your comments...

Cheers.

Michael

--
Message posted via
CraftKB.comhttp://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/metalworking/200801/1

Go here, join, and do a search. If you can't find the answer ask,
someone should know. Look in mantainance.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/index.php

Norton makes a gray stone intended for flattening other stones, mainly
waterstones, but it ought to work on Arkansas stones as well:

Norton "Flattening Stone" 9x3x0.75", article 99366 87444, bought from
Rockler for about $30.

As for degunking, I'd be tempted to soak the stone in acetone overnight,
followed by a trip through a domestic dishwasher.


Joe Gwinn

"twolluver" wrote in message
...
First, a comment on the aggressiveness of the cut. A hard black
arkansas is the last in the series of arkansas stones that you use to
sharpen a blade. You would start with a wa****a, then a white and
finally a hard black. The hard black is for putting a final mirror-
finish razor-sharp edge on a blade. It removes very little material
because of its fine grain. Your belief that it is not cutting well
may be wrong if you are trying to use it for the initial sharpening.

There are two primary home-brew methods for flattening a stone. The
first is rub it on a diamond hone of the same size or bigger. This is
the more expensive option. The other method is to use silicon carbide
grit or silicon carbide paper on a piece of float glass or surface
plate. The stone is rubbed on the surface until it is flat. I have
heard that using the grit is faster, but it will eventually wear a
hollow in the glass plate. Using paper protects the glass. The
silicon carbide appoach is slower than the diamond and depending on
how much material must be removed may take a significant amount of
paper or grit.

The latter is the way I flatten a synthetic stone, but have you tried it
with Arkansas stones? I didn't pipe up on this part of the question because
I've never tried to flatten a natural stone -- because I've never had to.
But it's an interesting question.

--
Ed Huntress

"twolluver" wrote in message
...
I forgot to mention what I found to be the best method of cleaning
sharpening stones. I dump the stone in my ultrasonic cleaner for a
short period of time. After removing the stone from the cleaner I
gently heat it with a hand-held heat gun. You can also set them out
in the sun on a warm day.


twolluver gave a good description of how to flatten which will also clean
the stone. If the stone is natural it will have no open connecting pores
and the glaze will be just on the surface so lapping with 90x silicon
carbide grit on plate glass, cast iron, granite tile or any similar flat
surface will quickly remove the glaze and flatten. If a lot of lapping is
to be done psa mylar will protect the lapping surface and help keep the grit
from rolling and crushing. The only truly critical tools that require
flatness are chisels. Wide plane irons depending on their use, may also
require a truly flat stone. Just a quick revision: two critical elements to
a cutting edge, shape and keenness. Shape, dictated by use and materials,
extremes are exemplified by a straight razor and a metal cutting tool bit,
both may be equally keen, the keenness being determined by the degree of
polish on the two surfaces that meet to from the cutting edge.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

The latter is the way I flatten a synthetic stone, but have you tried it
with Arkansas stones? I didn't pipe up on this part of the question
because I've never tried to flatten a natural stone -- because I've never
had to. But it's an interesting question.

--
Ed Huntress


In lapidary circles, there is a machine called a vibrating flat lap. It
consists of a big metal pan and plate mounted on springs with a motor and an
eccentric weight .

It is used to polish cut geodes and stone slabs. You charge it with coarse
abrasive, put your stones on it (weighted if need be) turn it on and come
back in a few days to charge it with finer abrasive.

It would probably flatten a hard Arkansas stone pretty readily.

However, I cannot imagine a hard Arkansas stone getting that wallowed out,
Wa****a maybe but not a black.

As a side note, I was taught to never use oil on one of these, it just clogs
the surface. Always use water. If I had to clean oil out of one, I would
probably boil it in lye.

Paul K. Dickman

"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

The latter is the way I flatten a synthetic stone, but have you tried it
with Arkansas stones? I didn't pipe up on this part of the question
because I've never tried to flatten a natural stone -- because I've never
had to. But it's an interesting question.

--
Ed Huntress


In lapidary circles, there is a machine called a vibrating flat lap. It
consists of a big metal pan and plate mounted on springs with a motor and
an eccentric weight .

It is used to polish cut geodes and stone slabs. You charge it with coarse
abrasive, put your stones on it (weighted if need be) turn it on and come
back in a few days to charge it with finer abrasive.

It would probably flatten a hard Arkansas stone pretty readily.

'Sounds good, if you have one of those tools. I'm curious, though, about
what happens when you use the traditional emery-cloth method with Arkansas
stones. Maybe I'll try it with one of my old slips, just to see.


However, I cannot imagine a hard Arkansas stone getting that wallowed out,
Wa****a maybe but not a black.

As a side note, I was taught to never use oil on one of these, it just
clogs the surface. Always use water. If I had to clean oil out of one, I
would probably boil it in lye.

The stories about sharpening stones and how to use them seem to have a lot
of variations. I've used honing oil or straight kerosene on mine for decades
without any clogging. I just flood them after use and wipe them off, as I
mentioned. I've been told never to use anything but light oil or kero on
oilstones, including novaculite stones, so I guess there's someone around to
tell you anything.

BTW, I'd want someone else to try boiling in lye before I tried it on my own
stones. It's great for cleaning gun barrels before blueing but Arkansas
stones are mostly silica in the form of quartz, and an alkali-silica
reaction is well-known to attack and weaken silica. It may be OK on the
fairly nonreactive quartz form of silica, but not with my stones, thank you,
until somebody else goes first..

--
Ed Huntress

On Jan 2, 8:20 am, "toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe wrote:



I use my natural stones with a little soapy water, and they don't seem to clog. Oil has never worked well for me.

I never felt like oil did anything on this stone, but I hardly ever used it
'cuz it was a poor performer. I think it's dirty and glazed and I'm hoping
it'll spruce up with some TLC.

Thanks for your comments.

Cheers.


I use Dawn dishwashing liquid and a little water both to clean stones
and in place of oil when I am using them. Dawn is really good for
cutting grease, but also works well to keep metal particles suspended
and not glazing a stone. I find it much better than oil. Try it. If
you don't like it, it will not have hurt the stone.

Silicon Carbide sandpaper backed with some thing flat will work to get
a flat surface on a stone. Grit size depending on how much stone
needs to be removed.

Dan

Twolluver, Ed, Paul, John, et al...

Thanks for all your input. It's been an interesting discussion and I've
learned a few things I didn't know.

I didn't initially go into my own background or experiences 'cuz of a desire
to be brief. But I have a fair bit of experience using and dressing stones. I
use water stones, India stones or specialized horizontal and vertical low
speed sharpening stations to put an edge on my chisels, knives and plane
irons. I use whatever technique strikes my mood. I'm sure that I'm like most
of you guys here... I've got more "tool toys" than ordinary folks can imagine.
I used stones and slips extensively when I was gunsmithing so I'm kind'a
familiar with their compositional properties and the intended uses. (I liked
the razor blade metaphor... it was very good!)

I've had this black Ark stone for many decades and I'd occasionally consider
using it to polish an edge but its surface isn't flat, as I explained earlier.
My grandfather didn't have the alternatives I do so he learned how to work
the stone in spite of the imperfections. It's still contained within the case
he made by hand more than half a century ago. (You can still see tool marks
on the wood from the hand auger and chisels he used to make the mortise in
each half of the case).

I'd planned to make a carriage to house a sled in which the stone would ride
(some conduit or pipe; an aluminum carriage with 8 bearings in a V shape to
ride the pipe) that would carry the stone over the carbide cutter of the
angle grinder, the grinder firmly secured in relation to the sled. Imagine an
inverted surface grinder where the workpiece moves over the cutter.

All your suggestions have merit... and most of you have highlighted the
inherent risk, in that I could damage the stone. Maybe I should put it away
with my other collectibles and keep it as it is, in granddad's memory.

I enjoyed reading your suggestions (and conversations imbedded within the
thread).

Cheers

Michael

--
Message posted via CraftKB.com
http://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forums.as...rking/200801/1

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message
...

In lapidary circles, there is a machine called a vibrating flat lap. It
consists of a big metal pan and plate mounted on springs with a motor and
an eccentric weight .
It would probably flatten a hard Arkansas stone pretty readily.

'Sounds good, if you have one of those tools. I'm curious, though, about
what happens when you use the traditional emery-cloth method with Arkansas
stones. Maybe I'll try it with one of my old slips, just to see.


It should do something, quartz has a mohs hardness of 7 and emery is a 9.
The only problem I see, is that dressing a india stone is like dressing a
grinding wheel, you just have to break the bond not the abrasive.
Cryptocrystaline quartz is bonded a little tougher.

Worst that would happen is that the only thing you'll acheive is cleaning
the surface.
Any serious flattening would be a a lot of work, though. Starting with a
diamond stone be a big help.
I have sanded a lot of quartzes and can tell you from experience, it is a
lot of work to remove even minor imperfections by hand sanding.



As a side note, I was taught to never use oil on one of these, it just
clogs the surface. Always use water. If I had to clean oil out of one, I
would probably boil it in lye.

The stories about sharpening stones and how to use them seem to have a lot
of variations. I've used honing oil or straight kerosene on mine for
decades without any clogging. I just flood them after use and wipe them
off, as I mentioned. I've been told never to use anything but light oil or
kero on oilstones, including novaculite stones, so I guess there's someone
around to tell you anything.


Ha. Probably true. I learned it from my father. It is his 8"x2" hard white I
have been using for the last 40 years.


BTW, I'd want someone else to try boiling in lye before I tried it on my
own stones. It's great for cleaning gun barrels before blueing but
Arkansas stones are mostly silica in the form of quartz, and an
alkali-silica reaction is well-known to attack and weaken silica. It may
be OK on the fairly nonreactive quartz form of silica, but not with my
stones, thank you, until somebody else goes first..

Geez, I'm not talking about dunking it in molten caustic potash.
Automatic dishwasher detergent would probably do a fine job too.

Paul K. Dickman

"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message
...

In lapidary circles, there is a machine called a vibrating flat lap. It
consists of a big metal pan and plate mounted on springs with a motor
and an eccentric weight .
It would probably flatten a hard Arkansas stone pretty readily.

'Sounds good, if you have one of those tools. I'm curious, though, about
what happens when you use the traditional emery-cloth method with
Arkansas stones. Maybe I'll try it with one of my old slips, just to see.


It should do something, quartz has a mohs hardness of 7 and emery is a 9.
The only problem I see, is that dressing a india stone is like dressing a
grinding wheel, you just have to break the bond not the abrasive.
Cryptocrystaline quartz is bonded a little tougher.

Worst that would happen is that the only thing you'll acheive is cleaning
the surface.
Any serious flattening would be a a lot of work, though. Starting with a
diamond stone be a big help.
I have sanded a lot of quartzes and can tell you from experience, it is a
lot of work to remove even minor imperfections by hand sanding.



As a side note, I was taught to never use oil on one of these, it just
clogs the surface. Always use water. If I had to clean oil out of one, I
would probably boil it in lye.

The stories about sharpening stones and how to use them seem to have a
lot of variations. I've used honing oil or straight kerosene on mine for
decades without any clogging. I just flood them after use and wipe them
off, as I mentioned. I've been told never to use anything but light oil
or kero on oilstones, including novaculite stones, so I guess there's
someone around to tell you anything.


Ha. Probably true. I learned it from my father. It is his 8"x2" hard white
I have been using for the last 40 years.


BTW, I'd want someone else to try boiling in lye before I tried it on my
own stones. It's great for cleaning gun barrels before blueing but
Arkansas stones are mostly silica in the form of quartz, and an
alkali-silica reaction is well-known to attack and weaken silica. It may
be OK on the fairly nonreactive quartz form of silica, but not with my
stones, thank you, until somebody else goes first..

Geez, I'm not talking about dunking it in molten caustic potash.
Automatic dishwasher detergent would probably do a fine job too.

Paul K. Dickman

OK. You go first with the boiling lye. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 18:51:33 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
"toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe quickly quoth:

Twolluver, Ed, Paul, John, et al...

Thanks for all your input. It's been an interesting discussion and I've
learned a few things I didn't know.

I didn't initially go into my own background or experiences 'cuz of a desire
to be brief. But I have a fair bit of experience using and dressing stones. I
use water stones, India stones or specialized horizontal and vertical low
speed sharpening stations to put an edge on my chisels, knives and plane
irons. I use whatever technique strikes my mood. I'm sure that I'm like most
of you guys here... I've got more "tool toys" than ordinary folks can imagine.
I used stones and slips extensively when I was gunsmithing so I'm kind'a
familiar with their compositional properties and the intended uses. (I liked
the razor blade metaphor... it was very good!)

You should be well versed on diamond plates by now. They'll take a
helluva lot more abuse and keep on cuttin'.


I've had this black Ark stone for many decades and I'd occasionally consider
using it to polish an edge but its surface isn't flat, as I explained earlier.
My grandfather didn't have the alternatives I do so he learned how to work
the stone in spite of the imperfections. It's still contained within the case
he made by hand more than half a century ago. (You can still see tool marks
on the wood from the hand auger and chisels he used to make the mortise in
each half of the case).

Very cool.


I'd planned to make a carriage to house a sled in which the stone would ride
(some conduit or pipe; an aluminum carriage with 8 bearings in a V shape to
ride the pipe) that would carry the stone over the carbide cutter of the
angle grinder, the grinder firmly secured in relation to the sled. Imagine an
inverted surface grinder where the workpiece moves over the cutter.

As brittle as Arkansas stones are, you're better off not doing that.


All your suggestions have merit... and most of you have highlighted the
inherent risk, in that I could damage the stone. Maybe I should put it away
with my other collectibles and keep it as it is, in granddad's memory.

Yes, suggest you keep it (and the memories) and use it as your grandpa
would have, on his pocket knife.

---
Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing.
This is the ultimate.
--Chuang-tzu (369 BC - 286 BC)

On Jan 2, 3:03 am, "toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe wrote:
wrote:
Go here, join, and do a search. If you can't find the answer ask,
someone should know. Look in mantainance.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/index.php
Karl

Thanks Karl, this looks like a very interesting link.

And thanks to all for your suggestions and sharing of your experiences. I
wasn't keen on baking an oily stone in the oven and I'm certainly not going
to do it now. It's too cold up here (north of the 49th parallel) to try and
air my house out for a week!

I have a number of concrete and stone saws (too aggressive) and the meanest
diamond chip, angle faced "concrete planing" attachment I've ever seen...
that bolts to a 7" angle grinder. I can't imagine what that bad boy costs at
retail, but I was lucky to get it free at a local pawnshop 'cuz it was
attached to a good Dewalt grinder I was buying and the pawnbroker didn't know
what to make of the disk. It's designed for flattening uneven concrete prior
to tile or wood flooring. It has so much mass that it acts like a flywheel
when I spark up the grinder and you have to have a white knuckle grip on it
until it finds its balance, once up to speed. It cuts like a demon but can
leave a glass smooth finish with the proper technique. Absent a better method,
I think I'll cobble together a jig of some sort so I can control the cut and
keep the tool and stone in a parallel plane.

Since the stone is so old, and because of the sentimental value, I want to be
careful with it and wondered if there was a better alternative. I think the
diamond grinder will be the way to go.

Thanks to all for your input.

Cheers

--
Message posted viahttp://www.craftkb.com

first off lapping three stones or faces together forces them to level
out at flat

but you need stones of equivalent hardness to hard arkansas or esle
the softer stone will be the one wearing

might this be a suggestion?

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,55067&p=55067

or maybe

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...05&cat=1,43072

use a bigger diamond than the arkansas

Larry Jaques wrote:


Yes, suggest you keep it (and the memories) and use it as your grandpa
would have, on his pocket knife.

I actually recall, as a wee lad some fifty odd years ago, him riding his foot
powered whetstone (with me in his lap) sharpening his tools and lubing the
stone (20" diameter) with an old soup can attached as a water reservoir. At
night he'd hone his wood chisels and straight razors on that stone. I have
some of his chisels, (up to 3/4" in width) so I assume he figured out where
to work them in a practical way on that irregular surface. O'course he also
had 3 leather strops that he'd tie to the door knob to further sweeten an
edge... although I only recall him doing the straight razors on the strop.
Chisels were probably worked on the strop while on a flat surface.

I'd also thought that prior to setting up a sled for the grinder I might have
a go at the stone with my diamond plates or paste compounds on plate glass. I
realize now that it was the challenge to flatten this stone that inspired me
and made me lose focus on its sentimental meaning to me. So I'm going to
leave it alone. If I find an orphaned stone in similar condition... I'll try
playing with it instead.

--
Message posted via CraftKB.com
http://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forums.as...rking/200801/1

Find a grandkid or neighbor kid about 3 or 4 who owns a tricycle.
Design a nice wooden frame slightly larger and thicker than the
stone with an eye bolt in one end.
Find an appropriate rope to tie the box to the little guy's
tricycle.
Go to a large plot of fairly flat concrete, a tennis court works
quite well.
Bring along a folding chair, sodas for the kid, and a few cold
ones for yourself.
Insert stone in box, kid on trike, rope between, open cold one,
sit back and watch.

Check progress on stone at the end of each cold one. May require
more than one kid for hard black Arkansas. May require more cold
ones to insure proper supervision. You can install a weight on
top of the stone and water on the concrete, especially if it's
summer.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe wrote in message
news:7d9eab605bf6f@uwe...
Twolluver, Ed, Paul, John, et al...

Thanks for all your input. It's been an interesting discussion
and I've
learned a few things I didn't know.

I didn't initially go into my own background or experiences 'cuz
of a desire
to be brief. But I have a fair bit of experience using and
dressing stones. I
use water stones, India stones or specialized horizontal and
vertical low
speed sharpening stations to put an edge on my chisels, knives
and plane
irons. I use whatever technique strikes my mood. I'm sure that
I'm like most
of you guys here... I've got more "tool toys" than ordinary
folks can imagine.
I used stones and slips extensively when I was gunsmithing so
I'm kind'a
familiar with their compositional properties and the intended
uses. (I liked
the razor blade metaphor... it was very good!)

I've had this black Ark stone for many decades and I'd
occasionally consider
using it to polish an edge but its surface isn't flat, as I
explained earlier.
My grandfather didn't have the alternatives I do so he learned
how to work
the stone in spite of the imperfections. It's still contained
within the case
he made by hand more than half a century ago. (You can still see
tool marks
on the wood from the hand auger and chisels he used to make the
mortise in
each half of the case).

I'd planned to make a carriage to house a sled in which the
stone would ride
(some conduit or pipe; an aluminum carriage with 8 bearings in a
V shape to
ride the pipe) that would carry the stone over the carbide
cutter of the
angle grinder, the grinder firmly secured in relation to the
sled. Imagine an
inverted surface grinder where the workpiece moves over the
cutter.

All your suggestions have merit... and most of you have
highlighted the
inherent risk, in that I could damage the stone. Maybe I should
put it away
with my other collectibles and keep it as it is, in granddad's
memory.

I enjoyed reading your suggestions (and conversations imbedded
within the
thread).

Cheers

Michael

--
Message posted via CraftKB.com
http://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forums.as...rking/200801/1

A rock slab saw would treat that like butter.
They cut Agate easily. 36" or 24" radius diamond wheels.
Is there a hobby club in town ?
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


SteveB wrote:
"toolman946 via CraftKB.com" u40139@uwe wrote in message
news:7d96909827599@uwe...
I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100 years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't seem to cut
very
well too, and I'm guessing the pores are filled with dirt and dross. I've
read about techniques to clean the surface (such as a good long soak in
an
oil dissolving cleaner and baking in a stove) and I had been planning to
go
at the surface with a diamond grit flat stone of similar width. Has
anyone
had any experience (good or bad) with rejuvenating an old timer like
this?

'preciate your comments...

Cheers.

Michael

My diamond blade tile saw has diamonds up the sides about 1 1/4". I would
think that one could carefully touch the stone to the sides of the spinning
blade and come up with a flat surface. That would depend, of course on the
total size of the stone and the throat of the tile cutter.. One could mount
the stone to the rolling tray so as to only shave off 1/16 or so on each
pass. It's hard to say without seeing it, but I have seen cutting wheels
that the diamonds run up the sides for quite a ways.

Other than that, maybe a carbide router blade?

Steve

Steve

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 03:23:27 GMT, "toolman946 via CraftKB.com"
u40139@uwe wrote:

I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100 years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't see

at the surface with a diamond grit flat stone of similar width. Has anyone
had any experience (good or bad) with rejuvenating an old timer like this?

I looked back at some notes from my violin makers discussion group.
Some violin makers use Belgian stones, another naturally occurring
stone. One person mentioned flattening his stone on his belt sander.
I believe Belgian stones are softer than Arkansas, but I don't have
personal experience for comparison.

RWL

On Jan 3, 7:11*pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 03:23:27 GMT, "toolman946 via CraftKB.com"

u40139@uwe wrote:
I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100 years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't see
at the surface with a diamond grit flat stone of similar width. Has anyone
had any experience (good or bad) with rejuvenating an old timer like this?

I looked back at some notes from my violin makers discussion group.
Some violin makers use Belgian stones, another naturally occurring
stone. *One person mentioned flattening his stone on his belt sander.
I believe Belgian stones are softer than Arkansas, but I don't have
personal experience for comparison.

RWL

Have a Belgian stone, it's a LOT softer than even a Wa****a. More like
a water stone. One of the granddads had it, center is about 1/2"
lower than the ends. Used for sharpening straight razors.

I'd be very reluctant to do anything dry and powered to a hard
Arkansas stone, wet lapping on a diamond wheel, maybe. Lapidary shop
would be my first stop, they were shaped that way to start with.

Stan

toolman946 via CraftKB.com wrote:
I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100 years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't seem to cut very
well too, and I'm guessing the pores are filled with dirt and dross. I've
read about techniques to clean the surface (such as a good long soak in an
oil dissolving cleaner and baking in a stove) and I had been planning to go
at the surface with a diamond grit flat stone of similar width. Has anyone
had any experience (good or bad) with rejuvenating an old timer like this?
Sure. Oil well, and rub on a carborundum stone that is
relatively flat. I think the carborundum stone will wear down a
lot quicker than the Arkansas. I have lapped a bunch of bench
stones of various types back to flatness this way. You have to
watch the shape of the stones, and flip end to end frequently,
and due to the difference in hardness you may still end up with
a curvature. By controlling the pressure at the ends or center,
you can somewhat control where the stones are wearing down. The
idea is to use a LOT of oil, so the stones are not grating
against each other, but an abrasive-loaded oil film is doing
most of the work.

Jon

Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
How about a surface grinder ? Seems like that would be ok -
The concentrated heat could break the stone, causing a rather
catastrophic explosion. I sure wouldn't want to stand downrange
when doing this!

Jon

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 03:23:27 GMT, "toolman946 via CraftKB.com"
u40139@uwe wrote:

I have a black, hard Arkansas oil stone that's probably close to 100 years
old (handed down from grandpa). The surface isn't flat anymore and it has
some chips and dings from many years of service. It doesn't seem to cut very
well too, and I'm guessing the pores are filled with dirt and dross. I've
read about techniques to clean the surface (such as a good long soak in an
oil dissolving cleaner and baking in a stove) and I had been planning to go
at the surface with a diamond grit flat stone of similar width. Has anyone
had any experience (good or bad) with rejuvenating an old timer like this?

'preciate your comments...

Cheers.

Michael


a time honoured method of resurfacing an oilstone, I've used it a
number of times, is to take a standard clay house brick and a domestic
garden hose. trickle a small stream of water over the house brick
while you rub the surface of the house brick with the old oilstone
surface. you will really smooth out the housebrick and in the process
you will achieve a perfectly flat oilstone.
the method uses the water stream to prevent the clay brick from
clogging.
I have rejuvinated a number of old oilstones this way and the process
achieves creditable results. If the oilstone isnt actually flat after
a good rubdown I can tell you that I havent detected any
imperfections. The rejuvinated stones work like new again.

I know that the method is awfully low tech but believe me it works.
Stealth Pilot

Gerry wrote:

I have flattened other stones simply by sitting down in my driveway
and rubbing the stone on the concrete with a bit of running water.

Right. I haven't done this but saw a video on Youtube or somewhere about
knife sharpening and this is what the guy said to do.
Randy

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 21:52:52 +0900, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 03:23:27 GMT, "toolman946 via CraftKB.com"
u40139@uwe wrote:

snip
a time honoured method of resurfacing an oilstone, I've used it a
number of times, is to take a standard clay house brick and a domestic
garden hose. trickle a small stream of water over the house brick
while you rub the surface of the house brick with the old oilstone
surface. you will really smooth out the housebrick and in the process
you will achieve a perfectly flat oilstone.
the method uses the water stream to prevent the clay brick from
clogging.
I have rejuvinated a number of old oilstones this way and the process
achieves creditable results. If the oilstone isnt actually flat after
a good rubdown I can tell you that I havent detected any
imperfections. The rejuvinated stones work like new again.

I know that the method is awfully low tech but believe me it works.
Stealth Pilot

For the opposite approach, I wonder if a seal shop could do it (well,
probably could but probably wouldn't). If you could sneak it on their
diamond vibratory lapping table, it'd come out flat to a ridiculous
precision.

Pete Keillor

When the stones are flooded with coolant and a 1/4 mil taken - what heat?
I don't intend to take 1/2" of stone off in a single pass!
One works back and forth.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Jon Elson wrote:
Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
How about a surface grinder ? Seems like that would be ok -
The concentrated heat could break the stone, causing a rather
catastrophic explosion. I sure wouldn't want to stand downrange when
doing this!

Jon