How are commercial chain links welded? My first guess is using resistance
but I would guess the electricity would be more likely to take the path
around the link than across the touching faces.

"Charles P Lamb" wrote in message
. ..
How are commercial chain links welded? My first guess is using resistance
but I would guess the electricity would be more likely to take the path
around the link than across the touching faces.



that's funny (was thinking about this last night). that's something i've
always wondered about welded seam pipe. how come the electricity doesn't
flow around the back instead of through the joint. i mean, obviously it
works, but it would seem to me the juice would flow through the metal
instead of through the weld.

As you increase the frequency the current is less willing to take the
long path do to inductance.

"Charles P Lamb" wrote in message
. ..
How are commercial chain links welded? My first guess is
using resistance but I would guess the electricity would
be more likely to take the path around the link than
across the touching faces.



Yes it's resistance welded. They did a segment on (I think)
"How it's made"
on chain. Interesting sequence of events!

"William Wixon" wrote in message
...

"Charles P Lamb" wrote in message
. ..
How are commercial chain links welded? My first guess is using
resistance but I would guess the electricity would be more likely to take
the path around the link than across the touching faces.



that's funny (was thinking about this last night). that's something i've
always wondered about welded seam pipe. how come the electricity doesn't
flow around the back instead of through the joint. i mean, obviously it
works, but it would seem to me the juice would flow through the metal
instead of through the weld.

You'd think that, but you'd be wrong.

I have an old DoAll saw equipped with a blade welder. If you try to weld
pieces that do not complete a loop, it won't weld them. Sort of defies
everything you think you know about electricity, doesn't it?

Harold

Charles P Lamb wrote:

My first guess is using resistance
but I would guess the electricity would be more likely to take the path
around the link than across the touching faces.

It is and why it works was explained by others. Saw a film where they made
chains and it was *really* impressive. Not that kind of neglace chains, but
*real* chains. For ships anchors. It's a hard work to connect the links (it
was some kind of carussell (SP?). The links were about 500mm long, diameter
something like 100mm or more. Big presses and the welding machine ... I
don't want to pay their electricity-bill! :-)

Nick
--
The lowcost-DRO:
http://www.yadro.de

I also have a DoAll blade welder and often weld two short pieces of
scrap blade together to dial in the settings. It is odd that your
welder requires a full loop. These welders can be finicky. Mine once
was making making great welds, and the next minute it wouldn't weld
anything. After a lot of investigation I found that the moveable jaw
was sticking.

On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 21:16:41 -0500, "Charles P Lamb"
wrote:

How are commercial chain links welded? My first guess is using resistance
but I would guess the electricity would be more likely to take the path
around the link than across the touching faces.


I find it intriguing that this topic came up. I've been trying to
figure out how to make welded links for things like chainmail,
safety-mail (like the microlink gloves that prevent you from cutting
yourself while filleting fish) and even necklaces.

I just found the following site that talks about Resistance welding...
http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art76.htm

The Wiki says that currents from 100 to 100K amps are used...

Hmmmm.... I wonder how hard it would be to design a Homebuilt power
supply for a Resistance welding rig?
Jaeger
Seattle, WA
"Dead wizards are not known to sleep soundly,
nor to wake jovial"

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 04:31:13 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
"BillM" quickly quoth:


"Charles P Lamb" wrote in message
...
How are commercial chain links welded? My first guess is
using resistance but I would guess the electricity would
be more likely to take the path around the link than
across the touching faces.



Yes it's resistance welded. They did a segment on (I think)
"How it's made"
on chain. Interesting sequence of events!

I couldn't find that so I kept looking until this popped up:
http://www.nvo.com/baldtus/makingchain/

---
Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing.
This is the ultimate.
--Chuang-tzu (369 BC - 286 BC)

On 2008-01-02, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
I couldn't find that so I kept looking until this popped up:
http://www.nvo.com/baldtus/makingchain/


Larry, that was a great page to look at, thanks. (and probably not a
great place to work at)

i

Jaeger Jaeger @sprite's_grove.com writes:

Hmmmm.... I wonder how hard it would be to design a Homebuilt power
supply for a Resistance welding rig?

Quite a few people have made spot welders by using the transformers
from a pair of microwave ovens... I don't have the URL for the
dropbox handy, but I think I saw a very nice example of one of these
power supplies there.

"twolluver" wrote in message
...
I also have a DoAll blade welder and often weld two short pieces of
scrap blade together to dial in the settings. It is odd that your
welder requires a full loop. These welders can be finicky. Mine once
was making making great welds, and the next minute it wouldn't weld
anything. After a lot of investigation I found that the moveable jaw
was sticking.

I wonder if it's because mine is very old---it was built in '43----perhaps
with lower technology. I struggled like hell to make a good blade from two
short pieces of new stock. Finally resorted to clamping the loose ends
together and got instant success. Being a retired toolmaker, I completely
rebuilt the clamping assembly on my welder. It looks as good as a new
one---works perfectly aside from not welding pieces.

Harold

"Charles P Lamb" wrote in message
. ..
How are commercial chain links welded? My first guess is using
resistance
but I would guess the electricity would be more likely to take the
path
around the link than across the touching faces.



In the Black Country, traditionally by hammer welding, and often by
women. Fred Dibnah covered it in one of his programs when he went
round Britain showing lapsed technology after he was diagnosed with
terminal cancer. ~Even huge anchor chains were hammer welded.

AWEM

Nick Mueller wrote:

It is and why it works was explained by others. Saw a film where they made
chains and it was *really* impressive. Not that kind of neglace chains, but
*real* chains. For ships anchors. It's a hard work to connect the links (it
was some kind of carussell (SP?). The links were about 500mm long, diameter
something like 100mm or more. Big presses and the welding machine ... I
don't want to pay their electricity-bill! :-)


I've seen lengths of anchor chain attached to wire rope for use to snag the
arresting hook of an aircraft equipped to use it. Damn impressive chunks of
steel. Dragging the chain down a runway after hitting the wire sure slows
down an aircraft quick. Must be fun work in summer hauling the chains back
and resetting the wire.

Wes

On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 21:16:41 -0500, "Charles P Lamb"
wrote:

How are commercial chain links welded? My first guess is using resistance
but I would guess the electricity would be more likely to take the path
around the link than across the touching faces.

It isn't an all-or-nothing situation. Some current will go 'round the
back way, but if the electrodes are close to the joint and the faces
makes good contact, then most of the current will go thru the joint.

On 2008-01-02, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"William Wixon" wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

that's funny (was thinking about this last night). that's something i've
always wondered about welded seam pipe. how come the electricity doesn't
flow around the back instead of through the joint. i mean, obviously it
works, but it would seem to me the juice would flow through the metal
instead of through the weld.

You'd think that, but you'd be wrong.

I have an old DoAll saw equipped with a blade welder. If you try to weld
pieces that do not complete a loop, it won't weld them. Sort of defies
everything you think you know about electricity, doesn't it?

I think that in *that* situation -- the welder is depending on the
current through the back loop to trigger the solenoid which brings the
ends of the blade into firm contact to make the weld. I've never
bothered to actually trace out the circuitry for the stand-alone blade
welder which I have, however.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
snip----

I think that in *that* situation -- the welder is depending on the
current through the back loop to trigger the solenoid which brings the
ends of the blade into firm contact to make the weld. I've never
bothered to actually trace out the circuitry for the stand-alone blade
welder which I have, however.

My unit is pretty primitive. The motion that brings the blade ends together
is manual, a lever that is depressed. I'm mystified by this thing, DoN.

Harold

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
snip----

I think that in *that* situation -- the welder is depending on the
current through the back loop to trigger the solenoid which brings the
ends of the blade into firm contact to make the weld. I've never
bothered to actually trace out the circuitry for the stand-alone blade
welder which I have, however.


My unit is pretty primitive. The motion that brings the blade ends together
is manual, a lever that is depressed. I'm mystified by this thing, DoN.

I have a pretty primitive blade welder too, but it welds hacksaw blades
just fine. Doubt we'll ever get to the bottom of Harold's, glad his blade
welder works!

Grant

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:32:35 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"twolluver" wrote in message
...
I also have a DoAll blade welder and often weld two short pieces of
scrap blade together to dial in the settings. It is odd that your
welder requires a full loop. These welders can be finicky. Mine once
was making making great welds, and the next minute it wouldn't weld
anything. After a lot of investigation I found that the moveable jaw
was sticking.

I wonder if it's because mine is very old---it was built in '43----perhaps
with lower technology. I struggled like hell to make a good blade from two
short pieces of new stock. Finally resorted to clamping the loose ends
together and got instant success. Being a retired toolmaker, I completely
rebuilt the clamping assembly on my welder. It looks as good as a new
one---works perfectly aside from not welding pieces.

My theory is that the current is to high without the loop. I know on
my blade welder I can't weld to short a loop of large blade (say 24"
of 3/4" blade). The loop definitely takes some of the power out of the
weld but most of it still takes the shorter path.

Wayne Cook wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:32:35 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:
I also have a DoAll blade welder and often weld two short pieces of
scrap blade together to dial in the settings. It is odd that your
welder requires a full loop. These welders can be finicky. Mine once
was making making great welds, and the next minute it wouldn't weld
anything. After a lot of investigation I found that the moveable jaw
was sticking.

I wonder if it's because mine is very old---it was built in '43----perhaps
with lower technology. I struggled like hell to make a good blade from two
short pieces of new stock. Finally resorted to clamping the loose ends
together and got instant success. Being a retired toolmaker, I completely
rebuilt the clamping assembly on my welder. It looks as good as a new
one---works perfectly aside from not welding pieces.


My theory is that the current is too high without the loop. I know on
my blade welder I can't weld to short a loop of large blade (say 24"
of 3/4" blade). The loop definitely takes some of the power out of the
weld but most of it still takes the shorter path.



Ah. This makes some sense. Until I learned to only set mine about
halfway up the scale, it too used too much current and the welds didn't
work worth beans. Generally they'd blow out pinholes and more generally
they would break.

Grant

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Jaeger wrote:
...
The Wiki says that currents from 100 to 100K amps are used...

Hmmmm.... I wonder how hard it would be to design a Homebuilt power
supply for a Resistance welding rig?

100 amps - piece of cake. 100k amps would be a bit of a challenge.
First you get 100 microwave oven transformers ...

Bob

On 2008-01-03, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
snip----

I think that in *that* situation -- the welder is depending on the
current through the back loop to trigger the solenoid which brings the
ends of the blade into firm contact to make the weld. I've never
bothered to actually trace out the circuitry for the stand-alone blade
welder which I have, however.

My unit is pretty primitive. The motion that brings the blade ends together
is manual, a lever that is depressed. I'm mystified by this thing, DoN.

Interesting. Mine has a solenoid which unlatches the blade
holders to slide together -- or which draws them together. I would have
to clear the space to open it up again to verify which in this case.

Unplug the unit and press the button, and the holders stay
separated. (And yes, I think that they all are rather primitive -- but
if that does the job -- who cares? :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 4 Jan 2008 03:42:06 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2008-01-03, Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
snip----

I think that in *that* situation -- the welder is depending on the
current through the back loop to trigger the solenoid which brings the
ends of the blade into firm contact to make the weld. I've never
bothered to actually trace out the circuitry for the stand-alone blade
welder which I have, however.

My unit is pretty primitive. The motion that brings the blade ends together
is manual, a lever that is depressed. I'm mystified by this thing, DoN.

Interesting. Mine has a solenoid which unlatches the blade
holders to slide together -- or which draws them together. I would have
to clear the space to open it up again to verify which in this case.

Unplug the unit and press the button, and the holders stay
separated. (And yes, I think that they all are rather primitive -- but
if that does the job -- who cares? :-)

All the older ones I've used are mechanical in nature.

The one we had at my previous employer was really old from the way
it was designed. On that one you set a dial to the insert position and
put the blade in. You then dialed in pressure according to the blade
width (there was a scale). It had three heat settings on another
switch. Once all was set you pulled a trigger looking switch down (it
was designed so that you pulled down and then your finger slipped
off). You then hoped it had a good weld. This particular welder took a
lot of experience to get a good weld with though it improved once I
took it apart and adjusted the switch that broke contact once the
blade holder moved. Once you had the weld you unclamped the blade and
moved the dial to the tempering position (the jaws where farther
apart) and then flipped the weld switch repeatedly till you got the
annealing temp you wanted.

That one was mounted on a DoAll saw but definitely wasn't a DoAll
design. It was much older than the saw was. The one I have now is
built into my DoAll saw and my saw is a good bit older than my
previous employers. On mine I set the blade in place and depress a
lever. The lever both turns on the current and moves the clamps
together at the same time. There is a current setting on it as well.
Once welded you move the blade to the outside of the jaws which have a
set back cut into them for the annealing witch is done with a push
button on the welder.

"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
...
snip-----

On mine I set the blade in place and depress a
lever. The lever both turns on the current and moves the clamps
together at the same time. There is a current setting on it as well.
Once welded you move the blade to the outside of the jaws which have a
set back cut into them for the annealing witch is done with a push
button on the welder.

You just described my welder.

Harold

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:46:58 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
.. .
snip-----

On mine I set the blade in place and depress a
lever. The lever both turns on the current and moves the clamps
together at the same time. There is a current setting on it as well.
Once welded you move the blade to the outside of the jaws which have a
set back cut into them for the annealing witch is done with a push
button on the welder.

You just described my welder.


I thought as much. My Do All is a fairly old saw. The blade welder
works better than the other one I used. On the other had I really need
to take some time and overhaul the saw itself.

Building a power supply for what you are talking about might be very
doable. Maybe even tasking an old resistance welder for such work.

What I'm wondering though is has anyone approached this issue with a TIG
welder? Especially for larger chain used in boating. Obviously it
would be very slow compared to a resistance system designed for such
welds, but you should be able to fashion any size chain in small lengths.

Getting penetration would be an issue but I would think your welds would
be better than a resistance job where the ends just get squished together.

Any thoughts.

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 03:17:51 -0800, Jaeger wrote:

On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 21:16:41 -0500, "Charles P Lamb"
wrote:

How are commercial chain links welded? My first guess is using
resistance but I would guess the electricity would be more likely to
take the path around the link than across the touching faces.


I find it intriguing that this topic came up. I've been trying to
figure out how to make welded links for things like chainmail,
safety-mail (like the microlink gloves that prevent you from cutting
yourself while filleting fish) and even necklaces.

I just found the following site that talks about Resistance welding...
http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art76.htm

The Wiki says that currents from 100 to 100K amps are used...

Hmmmm.... I wonder how hard it would be to design a Homebuilt power
supply for a Resistance welding rig?
Jaeger
Seattle, WA
"Dead wizards are not known to sleep soundly, nor to wake jovial"

On Wed, 02 Jan 2008 08:52:35 -0600, Ignoramus3921 wrote:
On 2008-01-02, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
I couldn't find that so I kept looking until this popped up:
http://www.nvo.com/baldtus/makingchain/


Larry, that was a great page to look at, thanks. (and probably not a
great place to work at)

When I was much younger my father worked at Campbell Chain and quite
enjoyed it. Until the Campbell's sold it and the new boss wasn't so
good... Now of course the Campbell name has had 30 years of change.

sdb

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