I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...

My first plan is to solder a Tee and two valves in the water line near each
unit. Switch valves so that an air hose can pressure blow unit out. (I'll be
doing this through out the water system to blow all water lines out) Or, do
I need to get more fancy and figure some way to pump RV antifreeze in?
Anybody got an idea on a quick easy way to pump a couple quarts in?

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...

I'd put a snorkel, stone filter and check valve at the highest point in
the system and a valve to the sanitary sewer at the lowest point in the
system. Shut off the house supply and open drain valve. Check valve
allows air to displace water. Presto!

My first plan is to solder a Tee and two valves in the water line near each
unit. Switch valves so that an air hose can pressure blow unit out. (I'll be
doing this through out the water system to blow all water lines out) Or, do
I need to get more fancy and figure some way to pump RV antifreeze in?
Anybody got an idea on a quick easy way to pump a couple quarts in?

I've never tasted RV antifreeze but I think that isn't the healthiest
thing to put in your water line. I'd go with air. Air is good.

--Winston

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 05:34:27 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...

My first plan is to solder a Tee and two valves in the water line near each
unit. Switch valves so that an air hose can pressure blow unit out. (I'll be
doing this through out the water system to blow all water lines out) Or, do
I need to get more fancy and figure some way to pump RV antifreeze in?
Anybody got an idea on a quick easy way to pump a couple quarts in?


One thing to keep in mind is that the washing machine and dishwasher
probably have some water in the bottom of them at all times. They
never pump out fully (can't really). You either need to put antifreeze
in there or break into them and put a drain at the lowest point. I'm
pointing this out since I'm in the same situation right now. I just
changed my shop washing machine from a old Maytag wringer (just lay
the hose on the ground and it drains all the way) to a newer (but
still old) Maytag. The water pump on the newer washer was busted from
sitting outside and water freezing in it. I'm working on a way to
drain it fully (my shop washing machine sits outside).

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 05:34:27 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...

My first plan is to solder a Tee and two valves in the water line near each
unit. Switch valves so that an air hose can pressure blow unit out. (I'll be
doing this through out the water system to blow all water lines out) Or, do
I need to get more fancy and figure some way to pump RV antifreeze in?
Anybody got an idea on a quick easy way to pump a couple quarts in?

Karl

When we winterize our cabin, the drill is:

* shut off water at source. Flush toilet to drain tank
* open all valves and faucets. Water drains out of the lowest valve,
an outside drain valve that is there for that purpose
* turn off water heater and drain
* pour RV juice into anything with residual standing water: traps,
appliances, commodes.

I don't know if blowing would clear the softener or not. Culligan
comes and pulls ours for the winter, brings another in the spring.
Most folks there do it that way. Culligan comes round and replaces the
tank about once a month during the season, then I suppose they
regenerate them at their plant in Wilmar. Cost isn't much more than
salt would be (the well water is quite hard), and it's a lot more
convenient.

On Oct 24, 5:34 am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...

My first plan is to solder a Tee and two valves in the water line near each
unit. Switch valves so that an air hose can pressure blow unit out. (I'll be
doing this through out the water system to blow all water lines out) Or, do
I need to get more fancy and figure some way to pump RV antifreeze in?
Anybody got an idea on a quick easy way to pump a couple quarts in?

Karl

For the washer and dishwasher I would blow out the lines as you
suggest (make sure they are at the appropriate point in the cycle that
the inlet solenoid is open) Then I would put some RV antifreeze
inside each of them and cycle them so they began to drain, thus
distributing the antifreeze through the drain system. As far as the
water softener, I have no idea. I am not very familiar with how they
work.

Steve

Not a chance of draining the water softener, the resin bed retains water
like a sponge. I would not put the RV antifreeze in ANY line or
container that is going to be used for human consumption

Karl Townsend wrote:
I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...

My first plan is to solder a Tee and two valves in the water line near each
unit. Switch valves so that an air hose can pressure blow unit out. (I'll be
doing this through out the water system to blow all water lines out) Or, do
I need to get more fancy and figure some way to pump RV antifreeze in?
Anybody got an idea on a quick easy way to pump a couple quarts in?

Karl

RoyJ wrote:

Not a chance of draining the water softener, the resin bed retains water
like a sponge. I would not put the RV antifreeze in ANY line or
container that is going to be used for human consumption

Have you ever used RV antifreeze? It is non toxic and specifically
intended for use on the potable water system.

On Oct 24, 3:34 am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...

My first plan is to solder a Tee and two valves in the water line near each
unit. Switch valves so that an air hose can pressure blow unit out. (I'll be
doing this through out the water system to blow all water lines out) Or, do
I need to get more fancy and figure some way to pump RV antifreeze in?
Anybody got an idea on a quick easy way to pump a couple quarts in?

Karl

I just went through this drill with the irrigation system at our
cabin. The house is well insulated and the furnace is setup with an
emergency freeze protection to keep the inside of the house at 35
degrees (only kicked on twice last winter) so we just drain (no air or
antifreeze) those pipes. However, the irrigation system and the shop
are another story. I put antifreeze in the trap of my unheated shop
sink, and we drain the irrigation system. However, poor design means
that the irrigation system still has several gallons even after being
completely gravity drained. I learned this when one well insulated,
supposedly drained pipe froze and split open 5 places along a 10'
length of pipe. There is a spigot at one end of the pipe and a ball
valve/drain at the other. I just permanently attached a quick connect
airline fitting, hook up my compressor, and open the valve. This
time, even after completely draining the pipe, 3 more gallons blew out
of the line. Now it's truly empty. The main concern is potential
damage from high pressure. A solid copper pipe is very different from
pumps, valves, etc in an appliance.
ww88

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 05:34:27 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...



I stop my dish washer and clothes washer from freezing by taking her out for
the occasional meal :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM

Pete C. wrote:
RoyJ wrote:

Not a chance of draining the water softener, the resin bed retains
water like a sponge. I would not put the RV antifreeze in ANY line or
container that is going to be used for human consumption

Have you ever used RV antifreeze? It is non toxic and specifically
intended for use on the potable water system.

I was gonna say ... my camper in the Ozarks is getting winterized in a
couple of weeks with the stuff . Been doing it that way for years and I
ain't dead yet .
--
Snag aka OSG #1
'90 Ultra , "Strider"
The road goes on forever ...
none to one to reply

On Oct 24, 12:36 pm, woodworker88 wrote:
On Oct 24, 3:34 am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...

My first plan is to solder a Tee and two valves in the water line near each
unit. Switch valves so that an air hose can pressure blow unit out. (I'll be
doing this through out the water system to blow all water lines out) Or, do
I need to get more fancy and figure some way to pump RV antifreeze in?
Anybody got an idea on a quick easy way to pump a couple quarts in?

Karl

I just went through this drill with the irrigation system at our
cabin. The house is well insulated and the furnace is setup with an
emergency freeze protection to keep the inside of the house at 35
degrees (only kicked on twice last winter) so we just drain (no air or
antifreeze) those pipes. However, the irrigation system and the shop
are another story. I put antifreeze in the trap of my unheated shop
sink, and we drain the irrigation system. However, poor design means
that the irrigation system still has several gallons even after being
completely gravity drained. I learned this when one well insulated,
supposedly drained pipe froze and split open 5 places along a 10'
length of pipe. There is a spigot at one end of the pipe and a ball
valve/drain at the other. I just permanently attached a quick connect
airline fitting, hook up my compressor, and open the valve. This
time, even after completely draining the pipe, 3 more gallons blew out
of the line. Now it's truly empty. The main concern is potential
damage from high pressure. A solid copper pipe is very different from
pumps, valves, etc in an appliance.
ww88

Quite common practice here is to blow out lawn sprinkler systems for
the winter about this time of year. Kind of odd driving by a big lawn
and seeing what looks like high-pressure steam popping out of the
ground everywhere. Most end up calling a service outfit to do it,
not having either the fitting or the compressor to do it. They never
plant the things more than a foot down and everything is PVC, it
breaks very easily.


Stan

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 05:34:27 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...

My first plan is to solder a Tee and two valves in the water line near each
unit. Switch valves so that an air hose can pressure blow unit out. (I'll be
doing this through out the water system to blow all water lines out) Or, do
I need to get more fancy and figure some way to pump RV antifreeze in?
Anybody got an idea on a quick easy way to pump a couple quarts in?

Karl

fill the water softener with brine and it will not freeze. the
dishwasher and washer are more problematic. Even blowing them out can
leave water in the vulnerable valves.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Why not test how soap or detergent changes the freezing point.
It might be that you simply put in a 1/4 load and add detergent - mix and
let it sit. Not much is known about this behavior since it is out of the norm.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Wayne Cook wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 05:34:27 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...

My first plan is to solder a Tee and two valves in the water line near each
unit. Switch valves so that an air hose can pressure blow unit out. (I'll be
doing this through out the water system to blow all water lines out) Or, do
I need to get more fancy and figure some way to pump RV antifreeze in?
Anybody got an idea on a quick easy way to pump a couple quarts in?


One thing to keep in mind is that the washing machine and dishwasher
probably have some water in the bottom of them at all times. They
never pump out fully (can't really). You either need to put antifreeze
in there or break into them and put a drain at the lowest point. I'm
pointing this out since I'm in the same situation right now. I just
changed my shop washing machine from a old Maytag wringer (just lay
the hose on the ground and it drains all the way) to a newer (but
still old) Maytag. The water pump on the newer washer was busted from
sitting outside and water freezing in it. I'm working on a way to
drain it fully (my shop washing machine sits outside).

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 05:34:27 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...


fill the water softener with brine and it will not freeze. the
dishwasher and washer are more problematic. Even blowing them out can
leave water in the vulnerable valves.


There's yer answer. Run each machine, empty, time the rinse cycle.
Close to the end of the rinse cycle, dump in a canister of table
salt. This will fill the pump with (home-made) brine.


technomaNge
--
Please visit http://www.anysoldier.com
and make a donation.

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:15:55 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder.on.ca quickly quoth:

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 05:34:27 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...

My first plan is to solder a Tee and two valves in the water line near each
unit. Switch valves so that an air hose can pressure blow unit out. (I'll be
doing this through out the water system to blow all water lines out) Or, do
I need to get more fancy and figure some way to pump RV antifreeze in?
Anybody got an idea on a quick easy way to pump a couple quarts in?

Karl

fill the water softener with brine and it will not freeze. the
dishwasher and washer are more problematic. Even blowing them out can
leave water in the vulnerable valves.

What the hell are people doing with dishwashers in cabins, anyway?
Sheesh! Use paper plates while on vacation. Wash the pans by hand. Use
a laundry tub and hang dry. That's an easy fix. Live the Country Life,
Karl. titter

--
Jewish Zen:
Be here now. Be someplace else later. Is that so complicated, already?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.diversify.com - Uncomplicated Website Design, here and now.

In article ,
"Snag" wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
RoyJ wrote:

Not a chance of draining the water softener, the resin bed retains
water like a sponge. I would not put the RV antifreeze in ANY line or
container that is going to be used for human consumption

Have you ever used RV antifreeze? It is non toxic and specifically
intended for use on the potable water system.

I was gonna say ... my camper in the Ozarks is getting winterized in a
couple of weeks with the stuff . Been doing it that way for years and I
ain't dead yet .

I winterized my sailboat with a quart of vodka. Never felt the need to
flush it out

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

nick hull wrote:

In article ,
"Snag" wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
RoyJ wrote:

Not a chance of draining the water softener, the resin bed retains
water like a sponge. I would not put the RV antifreeze in ANY line or
container that is going to be used for human consumption

Have you ever used RV antifreeze? It is non toxic and specifically
intended for use on the potable water system.

I was gonna say ... my camper in the Ozarks is getting winterized in a
couple of weeks with the stuff . Been doing it that way for years and I
ain't dead yet .

I winterized my sailboat with a quart of vodka. Never felt the need to
flush it out

Might be cheaper than RV antifreeze too...

Larry Jaques wrote:


What the hell are people doing with dishwashers in cabins, anyway?
Sheesh! Use paper plates while on vacation. Wash the pans by hand. Use
a laundry tub and hang dry. That's an easy fix. Live the Country Life,
Karl. titter




No Way!
titter back atcha

http://www.sailingtexas.com/scatalina36e.html

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:59:27 -0500, RoyJ
wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:

I need to set up a quick and easy way to protect a dishwasher, a clothes
washer and a water softener from freezing...

My first plan is to solder a Tee and two valves in the water line near each
unit. Switch valves so that an air hose can pressure blow unit out. (I'll be
doing this through out the water system to blow all water lines out) Or, do
I need to get more fancy and figure some way to pump RV antifreeze in?
Anybody got an idea on a quick easy way to pump a couple quarts in?

I'd just blow the lines out and not try putting any antifreeze
inside. Just add some antifreeze to the sink and toilet traps and the
bottom of the dishwasher and washing machine.

Not a chance of draining the water softener, the resin bed retains water
like a sponge.

My thought too - I would put on quick disconnects and take it
totally out of the line. You might be able to turn the resin canister
upside down and drain enough water that the residual water won't harm
the resin bed by freezing...

As always the best way is to check with the softener maker for the
winterizing procedures. They should know what works, because they
have to pay warranty claims if the process they suggest fails.

Safest thing would be to cap the lines of the resin bed cylinder and
toss it in the back of a Southbound truck or trailer. Take it with
you. Or store it at a neighbors who'll be home for the winter and
keep the heat on.

I would not put the RV antifreeze in ANY line or
container that is going to be used for human consumption

It's propylene glycol, FDA approved for food use.

Not sure what the ingestion quantity restrictions are (you wouldn't
want to drink large quantities of it on purpose anyway) but small
incidental contact quantities certainly won't hurt. Much.

Pete C. wrote:
nick hull wrote:

In article ,
"Snag" wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
RoyJ wrote:

Not a chance of draining the water softener, the resin bed retains
water like a sponge. I would not put the RV antifreeze in ANY
line or container that is going to be used for human consumption

Have you ever used RV antifreeze? It is non toxic and specifically
intended for use on the potable water system.

I was gonna say ... my camper in the Ozarks is getting winterized
in a couple of weeks with the stuff . Been doing it that way for
years and I ain't dead yet .

I winterized my sailboat with a quart of vodka. Never felt the need
to flush it out

Might be cheaper than RV antifreeze too...

Not really , a 750 of Smirnoff red is like 14 bucks , I can get three
gallons of RV antifreeze for that much .
The vodka sounds like a lot more fun though .
--

Snag aka OSG #1
'90 Ultra , "Strider"
The road goes on forever ...
none to one to reply