From the old Email inbox:

[
A Little Perspective

By Michael Moore

If you can't get through this list without wanting to throw up, I'll
understand. But pass it around anyway. This is the nail in the Iraq War's
coffin for any sane, thinking individual, regardless of their political
stripe. (Thanks to Tom Paine.com and the Center for American Progress.)

To get some perspective, here are some real-life comparisons about what $87
billion means:

$87 Billion is more than the combined total of all State budget deficits in
the United States. The Bush administration proposed absolutely zero funds
to help states deal with these deficits, despite the fact that their tax
cuts drove down state revenues. [Source: Center on Budget and Policy
Priorities].

$87 Billion is enough to pay the 3.3 million people who have lost jobs under
George W. Bush $26,363.00 each! The unemployment benefits extension passed
by Congress at the beginning of this year provides zero benefits to workers
who exhausted their regular, state unemployment benefits and cannot find
work [Source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities].

$87 Billion is more than double the total amount the government spends on
Homeland Security. The U.S. spends about $36 billion on homeland security.
Yet, Sen. Warren Rudman (R- N.H.) wrote, America will fall approximately
$98 .4 billion short of meeting critical emergency responder needs for
homeland security without a funding increase. [Source: Council on Foreign
Relations].

$87 Billion is 87 times the amount the Federal Government spends on After
School Programs. George W. Bush proposed a budget that reduces the $1
billion for after-school programs to $600 million cutting off about 475,000
children from the program. [Source: The Republican-dominated House
Appropriations Committee].

$87 Billion is more than 10 times what the Government spends on all
environmental Protection. The Bush administration requested just $7.6
billion for the entire Environmental Protection Agency. This included a 32
percent cut to water quality grants, a 6 percent reduction in enforcement
staff, and a 50 percent cut to land acquisition and conservation. [Source:
Natural Resources Defense Council].

There you go. In black and white. A few million of you will receive this
letter. Please share the above with at least a half-dozen people today and
tomorrow. I, like you, do not want to see another approval rating over 50
percent.

Yours,

Michael Moore

Filmmaker
]

And only a small faction of the money we spend on people who don't feel like
working.

Steve.


"Cliff Huprich" wrote in message
m...
From the old Email inbox:

[
A Little Perspective

By Michael Moore

If you can't get through this list without wanting to throw up, I'll
understand. But pass it around anyway. This is the nail in the Iraq
War's
coffin for any sane, thinking individual, regardless of their political
stripe. (Thanks to Tom Paine.com and the Center for American Progress.)

To get some perspective, here are some real-life comparisons about what
$87
billion means:

$87 Billion is more than the combined total of all State budget deficits
in
the United States. The Bush administration proposed absolutely zero funds
to help states deal with these deficits, despite the fact that their tax
cuts drove down state revenues. [Source: Center on Budget and Policy
Priorities].

$87 Billion is enough to pay the 3.3 million people who have lost jobs
under
George W. Bush $26,363.00 each! The unemployment benefits extension
passed
by Congress at the beginning of this year provides zero benefits to
workers
who exhausted their regular, state unemployment benefits and cannot find
work [Source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities].

$87 Billion is more than double the total amount the government spends on
Homeland Security. The U.S. spends about $36 billion on homeland
security.
Yet, Sen. Warren Rudman (R- N.H.) wrote, America will fall approximately
$98 .4 billion short of meeting critical emergency responder needs for
homeland security without a funding increase. [Source: Council on Foreign
Relations].

$87 Billion is 87 times the amount the Federal Government spends on After
School Programs. George W. Bush proposed a budget that reduces the $1
billion for after-school programs to $600 million cutting off about
475,000
children from the program. [Source: The Republican-dominated House
Appropriations Committee].

$87 Billion is more than 10 times what the Government spends on all
environmental Protection. The Bush administration requested just $7.6
billion for the entire Environmental Protection Agency. This included a
32
percent cut to water quality grants, a 6 percent reduction in enforcement
staff, and a 50 percent cut to land acquisition and conservation.
[Source:
Natural Resources Defense Council].

There you go. In black and white. A few million of you will receive this
letter. Please share the above with at least a half-dozen people today
and
tomorrow. I, like you, do not want to see another approval rating over 50
percent.

Yours,

Michael Moore

Filmmaker
]

Any sane, thinking individual, regardless of political stripe can easily
tell the difference between this propaganda crap and true perspective!

George Willer

"Cliff Huprich" wrote in message
m...
From the old Email inbox:

[
A Little Perspective

By Michael Moore

If you can't get through this list without wanting to throw up, I'll
understand. But pass it around anyway. This is the nail in the Iraq
War's
coffin for any sane, thinking individual, regardless of their political
stripe. (Thanks to Tom Paine.com and the Center for American Progress.)

To get some perspective, here are some real-life comparisons about what
$87
billion means:

$87 Billion is more than the combined total of all State budget deficits
in
the United States. The Bush administration proposed absolutely zero funds
to help states deal with these deficits, despite the fact that their tax
cuts drove down state revenues. [Source: Center on Budget and Policy
Priorities].

$87 Billion is enough to pay the 3.3 million people who have lost jobs
under
George W. Bush $26,363.00 each! The unemployment benefits extension
passed
by Congress at the beginning of this year provides zero benefits to
workers
who exhausted their regular, state unemployment benefits and cannot find
work [Source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities].

$87 Billion is more than double the total amount the government spends on
Homeland Security. The U.S. spends about $36 billion on homeland
security.
Yet, Sen. Warren Rudman (R- N.H.) wrote, America will fall approximately
$98 .4 billion short of meeting critical emergency responder needs for
homeland security without a funding increase. [Source: Council on Foreign
Relations].

$87 Billion is 87 times the amount the Federal Government spends on After
School Programs. George W. Bush proposed a budget that reduces the $1
billion for after-school programs to $600 million cutting off about
475,000
children from the program. [Source: The Republican-dominated House
Appropriations Committee].

$87 Billion is more than 10 times what the Government spends on all
environmental Protection. The Bush administration requested just $7.6
billion for the entire Environmental Protection Agency. This included a
32
percent cut to water quality grants, a 6 percent reduction in enforcement
staff, and a 50 percent cut to land acquisition and conservation.
[Source:
Natural Resources Defense Council].

There you go. In black and white. A few million of you will receive this
letter. Please share the above with at least a half-dozen people today
and
tomorrow. I, like you, do not want to see another approval rating over 50
percent.

Yours,

Michael Moore

Filmmaker
]

Cliff Huprich wrote:

From the old Email inbox:

[
A Little Perspective

By Michael Moore

[trash deleted]

What REALLY makes me sick is all the money Moore is making with
his truth distorting hack and slash job falsely marketed
as a "documentary" film !

(Cliff Huprich) wrote in
m:

From the old Email inbox:

[
A Little Perspective

snipped the fat faggot

Great, so now I come here to find chain email reposted from somebody that
chastizes Gunner when HE does it?

Geesus

Scott,
The end is in sight.
According to my teen age movie reviewers:
1) Bowling for Columbine was an entertaining pack of lies "documentary".
2) Fahrenheit 911 is a boring pack of lies "documentary".

Those who paid to go to the movies and got burned this week, like my 17
year old, are not likely to do it again.

Scott Moore wrote:



What REALLY makes me sick is all the money Moore is making with
his truth distorting hack and slash job falsely marketed
as a "documentary" film !


--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

Scott Moore wrote:


What REALLY makes me sick is all the money Moore is making with
his truth distorting hack and slash job falsely marketed
as a "documentary" film !

Ann Coulter (sic), Limbaugh, Al Franken, O'reilly et al.
all make a living by presenting an entertaining point
of view as "fact" or as "truth".

I don't begrudge them their form of making a living
as long as they don't expect me to respect
them as sources of truth or fact.

I expect most folks make up their own minds about
matters that are important to them and lump Moore
as being just another flavor of these other guys.
( Clowns in a media circus )

I think most of the ones you mention do their bidding not with lies but
with what true facts they focus on.
A right winger wanting to help the war, and thus Bush, and thus
capitalism, would focus today on transferring Saddam to the Iraqis today.
Meanwhile the left wingers, wanting to hurt the war, and thus hurt Bush,
and thus help socialism, would focus on possible delayed stress syndrome
of our soldiers in Iraq today.

Neither camp is lying, just focusing on what helps their biased point of
view.
Moore, on the other hand, is a liar.

Al wrote:


Scott Moore wrote:


What REALLY makes me sick is all the money Moore is making with
his truth distorting hack and slash job falsely marketed
as a "documentary" film !


Ann Coulter (sic), Limbaugh, Al Franken, O'reilly et al.
all make a living by presenting an entertaining point
of view as "fact" or as "truth".

I don't begrudge them their form of making a living
as long as they don't expect me to respect
them as sources of truth or fact.

I expect most folks make up their own minds about
matters that are important to them and lump Moore
as being just another flavor of these other guys.
( Clowns in a media circus )


--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

So how much would that be for each of the over 8,000,000 people that
Saddam Huisan caused to die? About $10,000 per life. Not much per
life in my opinion.

Dan


(Cliff Huprich) wrote in message om...

$87 Billion is enough to pay the 3.3 million people who have lost jobs under
George W. Bush $26,363.00 each! The unemployment benefits extension passed
by Congress at the beginning of this year provides zero benefits to workers
who exhausted their regular, state unemployment benefits and cannot find
work [Source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities].

Yours,

Michael Moore

Filmmaker
]

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 19:54:52 GMT, Clark Magnuson
wrote:

Scott,
The end is in sight.
According to my teen age movie reviewers:
1) Bowling for Columbine was an entertaining pack of lies "documentary".
2) Fahrenheit 911 is a boring pack of lies "documentary".

Those who paid to go to the movies and got burned this week, like my 17
year old, are not likely to do it again.

I'd planned to skip it, having been annoyed by the dishonesty of
"Bowling for Columbine," and some of MM's writings, but my son, who is
now in the service, recommended it to me, even offered to treat me, as
he wants to see it again.

Just a data point.

Al Moore

Dan Caster wrote:

So how much would that be for each of the over 8,000,000 people that
Saddam Huisan caused to die? About $10,000 per life. Not much per
life in my opinion.

Dan


This link says Saddam murdered 22,000,000.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=5773

Dan Caster wrote:

So how much would that be for each of the over 8,000,000 people that
Saddam Huisan caused to die? About $10,000 per life. Not much per
life in my opinion.

Dan


This link says Saddam murdered 22,000,000.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=5773

Flat out not true. Right wingers love to spout bull**** as truth., and con
good people into believing it. Its all they seem capable of. Try looking at
the actual budget. Expenditures for evil socialist things like... ensuring
children have food.. you know that stuff Christ taught.. is practically
nonexistant.
"SteveF" wrote in message
. com...

And only a small faction of the money we spend on people who don't feel
like
working.

Steve.


"Cliff Huprich" wrote in message
m...
From the old Email inbox:

[
A Little Perspective

By Michael Moore

If you can't get through this list without wanting to throw up, I'll
understand. But pass it around anyway. This is the nail in the Iraq
War's
coffin for any sane, thinking individual, regardless of their political
stripe. (Thanks to Tom Paine.com and the Center for American Progress.)

To get some perspective, here are some real-life comparisons about what
$87
billion means:

$87 Billion is more than the combined total of all State budget deficits
in
the United States. The Bush administration proposed absolutely zero
funds
to help states deal with these deficits, despite the fact that their tax
cuts drove down state revenues. [Source: Center on Budget and Policy
Priorities].

$87 Billion is enough to pay the 3.3 million people who have lost jobs
under
George W. Bush $26,363.00 each! The unemployment benefits extension
passed
by Congress at the beginning of this year provides zero benefits to
workers
who exhausted their regular, state unemployment benefits and cannot find
work [Source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities].

$87 Billion is more than double the total amount the government spends
on
Homeland Security. The U.S. spends about $36 billion on homeland
security.
Yet, Sen. Warren Rudman (R- N.H.) wrote, America will fall
approximately
$98 .4 billion short of meeting critical emergency responder needs for
homeland security without a funding increase. [Source: Council on
Foreign
Relations].

$87 Billion is 87 times the amount the Federal Government spends on
After
School Programs. George W. Bush proposed a budget that reduces the $1
billion for after-school programs to $600 million cutting off about
475,000
children from the program. [Source: The Republican-dominated House
Appropriations Committee].

$87 Billion is more than 10 times what the Government spends on all
environmental Protection. The Bush administration requested just $7.6
billion for the entire Environmental Protection Agency. This included a
32
percent cut to water quality grants, a 6 percent reduction in
enforcement
staff, and a 50 percent cut to land acquisition and conservation.
[Source:
Natural Resources Defense Council].

There you go. In black and white. A few million of you will receive
this
letter. Please share the above with at least a half-dozen people today
and
tomorrow. I, like you, do not want to see another approval rating over
50
percent.

Yours,

Michael Moore

Filmmaker
]

Flat out not true. Right wingers love to spout bull**** as truth., and con
good people into believing it. Its all they seem capable of. Try looking at
the actual budget. Expenditures for evil socialist things like... ensuring
children have food.. you know that stuff Christ taught.. is practically
nonexistant.
"SteveF" wrote in message
. com...

And only a small faction of the money we spend on people who don't feel
like
working.

Steve.


"Cliff Huprich" wrote in message
m...
From the old Email inbox:

[
A Little Perspective

By Michael Moore

If you can't get through this list without wanting to throw up, I'll
understand. But pass it around anyway. This is the nail in the Iraq
War's
coffin for any sane, thinking individual, regardless of their political
stripe. (Thanks to Tom Paine.com and the Center for American Progress.)

To get some perspective, here are some real-life comparisons about what
$87
billion means:

$87 Billion is more than the combined total of all State budget deficits
in
the United States. The Bush administration proposed absolutely zero
funds
to help states deal with these deficits, despite the fact that their tax
cuts drove down state revenues. [Source: Center on Budget and Policy
Priorities].

$87 Billion is enough to pay the 3.3 million people who have lost jobs
under
George W. Bush $26,363.00 each! The unemployment benefits extension
passed
by Congress at the beginning of this year provides zero benefits to
workers
who exhausted their regular, state unemployment benefits and cannot find
work [Source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities].

$87 Billion is more than double the total amount the government spends
on
Homeland Security. The U.S. spends about $36 billion on homeland
security.
Yet, Sen. Warren Rudman (R- N.H.) wrote, America will fall
approximately
$98 .4 billion short of meeting critical emergency responder needs for
homeland security without a funding increase. [Source: Council on
Foreign
Relations].

$87 Billion is 87 times the amount the Federal Government spends on
After
School Programs. George W. Bush proposed a budget that reduces the $1
billion for after-school programs to $600 million cutting off about
475,000
children from the program. [Source: The Republican-dominated House
Appropriations Committee].

$87 Billion is more than 10 times what the Government spends on all
environmental Protection. The Bush administration requested just $7.6
billion for the entire Environmental Protection Agency. This included a
32
percent cut to water quality grants, a 6 percent reduction in
enforcement
staff, and a 50 percent cut to land acquisition and conservation.
[Source:
Natural Resources Defense Council].

There you go. In black and white. A few million of you will receive
this
letter. Please share the above with at least a half-dozen people today
and
tomorrow. I, like you, do not want to see another approval rating over
50
percent.

Yours,

Michael Moore

Filmmaker
]

Just a thought.

I know it might blow away your carefully created fantasy world. But you
might try actually seeing the thing before you spout ignorance.
"Clark Magnuson" wrote in message
news:gUEEc.4058$IQ4.1908@attbi_s02...
Scott,
The end is in sight.
According to my teen age movie reviewers:
1) Bowling for Columbine was an entertaining pack of lies "documentary".
2) Fahrenheit 911 is a boring pack of lies "documentary".

Those who paid to go to the movies and got burned this week, like my 17
year old, are not likely to do it again.

Scott Moore wrote:



What REALLY makes me sick is all the money Moore is making with
his truth distorting hack and slash job falsely marketed
as a "documentary" film !


--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of
atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

Just a thought. But maybe we shouldnt have sent "evil sadam" the chemical
weapons to gas the khurds and Iranians. Maybe we shouldnt have trained his
secret police to murder and torture. Maybe we shouldnt have armed his
military.

But that would take putting morality and reality as the prime factors in
what we do in the world. And the right cant have that.

"Dan Caster" wrote in message
m...
So how much would that be for each of the over 8,000,000 people that
Saddam Huisan caused to die? About $10,000 per life. Not much per
life in my opinion.

Dan


(Cliff Huprich) wrote in message
om...

$87 Billion is enough to pay the 3.3 million people who have lost jobs
under
George W. Bush $26,363.00 each! The unemployment benefits extension
passed
by Congress at the beginning of this year provides zero benefits to
workers
who exhausted their regular, state unemployment benefits and cannot find
work [Source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities].

Yours,

Michael Moore

Filmmaker
]

Al wrote:

Scott Moore wrote:


What REALLY makes me sick is all the money Moore is making with
his truth distorting hack and slash job falsely marketed
as a "documentary" film !


Ann Coulter (sic), Limbaugh, Al Franken, O'reilly et al.
all make a living by presenting an entertaining point
of view as "fact" or as "truth".

I don't begrudge them their form of making a living
as long as they don't expect me to respect
them as sources of truth or fact.

I expect most folks make up their own minds about
matters that are important to them and lump Moore
as being just another flavor of these other guys.
( Clowns in a media circus )


I think its more than that. What do the bumper stickers say
now ? "If you can read this, you aren't the president"
"Redefeat Bush". President Bush is stupid. Bush dodged military
service. Bush the drug user. He stole the election. Bush
equated with HITLER, ****ing HITLER. Bush and Saddam are
two sides of the same coin, etc., etc.

I am (or consider myself to be) a centrist, perhaps on the
conservative side. But "superliberals" seem to have no problem
with gross attacks on the right, any slander, any mistruth.
Recently I had to hold my peace at a party where one of the guests
was pronouncing loudly that people who voted for Bush were obviously
"stupid, stupid".

The liberal left seems to believe that any attack on the right,
however exaggerated, is ok, because the right is "so obviously
wrong". They are after corporate interests. They want to sell
us out for profit.

I think its time to say something about this crap. The "end justifies
the means" was a goddam dictator's slogan, not a reasonable policy.
What is the farthest the right has sunk in recent years ? Calling
Clinton an adulterer ? Boy, was that out of line.

If the right had made a film like this, the loony left would be
hopping mad. According to the papers, the Bush white house is
refraining from comment on the film. Certainly thats good, but
its class in the face of sheer classnessnes. Its taking
rude comments without getting angry.

Frankly, if I were in Bushes' shoes, I'd be suing the fat pig
for libel. I bet a great cheer would go up if Bush did that.

charles wrote:

Just a thought. But maybe we shouldnt have sent "evil sadam" the chemical
weapons to gas the khurds and Iranians. Maybe we shouldnt have trained his
secret police to murder and torture. Maybe we shouldnt have armed his
military.

Just a thought. Saddam got most of the raw materials for that crap from
France and Germany.

Gee, the same people who are bitching about us now, go figgure.

Al wrote:

Scott Moore wrote:


What REALLY makes me sick is all the money Moore is making with
his truth distorting hack and slash job falsely marketed
as a "documentary" film !


Ann Coulter (sic), Limbaugh, Al Franken, O'reilly et al.
all make a living by presenting an entertaining point
of view as "fact" or as "truth".

I don't begrudge them their form of making a living
as long as they don't expect me to respect
them as sources of truth or fact.

I expect most folks make up their own minds about
matters that are important to them and lump Moore
as being just another flavor of these other guys.
( Clowns in a media circus )


I think its more than that. What do the bumper stickers say
now ? "If you can read this, you aren't the president"
"Redefeat Bush". President Bush is stupid. Bush dodged military
service. Bush the drug user. He stole the election. Bush
equated with HITLER, ****ing HITLER. Bush and Saddam are
two sides of the same coin, etc., etc.

I am (or consider myself to be) a centrist, perhaps on the
conservative side. But "superliberals" seem to have no problem
with gross attacks on the right, any slander, any mistruth.
Recently I had to hold my peace at a party where one of the guests
was pronouncing loudly that people who voted for Bush were obviously
"stupid, stupid".

The liberal left seems to believe that any attack on the right,
however exaggerated, is ok, because the right is "so obviously
wrong". They are after corporate interests. They want to sell
us out for profit.

I think its time to say something about this crap. The "end justifies
the means" was a goddam dictator's slogan, not a reasonable policy.
What is the farthest the right has sunk in recent years ? Calling
Clinton an adulterer ? Boy, was that out of line.

If the right had made a film like this, the loony left would be
hopping mad. According to the papers, the Bush white house is
refraining from comment on the film. Certainly thats good, but
its class in the face of sheer classnessnes. Its taking
rude comments without getting angry.

Frankly, if I were in Bushes' shoes, I'd be suing the fat pig
for libel. I bet a great cheer would go up if Bush did that.

charles wrote:
Just a thought. But maybe we shouldnt have sent "evil sadam" the chemical
weapons to gas the khurds and Iranians. Maybe we shouldnt have trained his
secret police to murder and torture. Maybe we shouldnt have armed his
military.

Just a thought. Saddam got most of the raw materials for that crap from
France and Germany.

Gee, the same people who are bitching about us now, go figgure.

I AM looking at the Federal budget which, for 2003, shows $334,432,000,000
for Income Security.

That's what I love about liberals - the ability to simply reject any facts
that conflict with their view of the world. And the $100 prize I have for
the first liberal to provide evidence of the massive starvation in this
country that existed prior to the start of, and was solved by, the 1960's
social programs remains oddly unclaimed.

Steve.



"charles" wrote in message
news:vkQEc.6273$wY5.4497@attbi_s54...
Flat out not true. Right wingers love to spout bull**** as truth., and con
good people into believing it. Its all they seem capable of. Try looking
at
the actual budget. Expenditures for evil socialist things like... ensuring
children have food.. you know that stuff Christ taught.. is practically
nonexistant.
"SteveF" wrote in message
. com...

And only a small faction of the money we spend on people who don't feel
like
working.

Steve.


"Cliff Huprich" wrote in message
m...
From the old Email inbox:

[
A Little Perspective

By Michael Moore

If you can't get through this list without wanting to throw up, I'll
understand. But pass it around anyway. This is the nail in the Iraq
War's
coffin for any sane, thinking individual, regardless of their
political
stripe. (Thanks to Tom Paine.com and the Center for American
Progress.)

To get some perspective, here are some real-life comparisons about
what
$87
billion means:

$87 Billion is more than the combined total of all State budget
deficits
in
the United States. The Bush administration proposed absolutely zero
funds
to help states deal with these deficits, despite the fact that their
tax
cuts drove down state revenues. [Source: Center on Budget and Policy
Priorities].

$87 Billion is enough to pay the 3.3 million people who have lost jobs
under
George W. Bush $26,363.00 each! The unemployment benefits extension
passed
by Congress at the beginning of this year provides zero benefits to
workers
who exhausted their regular, state unemployment benefits and cannot
find
work [Source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities].

$87 Billion is more than double the total amount the government spends
on
Homeland Security. The U.S. spends about $36 billion on homeland
security.
Yet, Sen. Warren Rudman (R- N.H.) wrote, America will fall
approximately
$98 .4 billion short of meeting critical emergency responder needs for
homeland security without a funding increase. [Source: Council on
Foreign
Relations].

$87 Billion is 87 times the amount the Federal Government spends on
After
School Programs. George W. Bush proposed a budget that reduces the $1
billion for after-school programs to $600 million cutting off about
475,000
children from the program. [Source: The Republican-dominated House
Appropriations Committee].

$87 Billion is more than 10 times what the Government spends on all
environmental Protection. The Bush administration requested just $7.6
billion for the entire Environmental Protection Agency. This included
a
32
percent cut to water quality grants, a 6 percent reduction in
enforcement
staff, and a 50 percent cut to land acquisition and conservation.
[Source:
Natural Resources Defense Council].

There you go. In black and white. A few million of you will receive
this
letter. Please share the above with at least a half-dozen people
today
and
tomorrow. I, like you, do not want to see another approval rating
over
50
percent.

Yours,

Michael Moore

Filmmaker
]

Sad thing is the left-coast will present him another Oscar for his
"outstanding" documentary.

Liberals never let truth stand in their way.



What REALLY makes me sick is all the money Moore is making with
his truth distorting hack and slash job falsely marketed
as a "documentary" film !

Steve M

Clark Magnuson wrote:


Dan Caster wrote:

So how much would that be for each of the over 8,000,000 people that
Saddam Huisan caused to die? About $10,000 per life. Not much per
life in my opinion.

Dan


This link says Saddam murdered 22,000,000.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=5773

Great link, Clark. You obviously have the same investigational skills
and commitment to the truth as the great Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity,
Anne Coulter, and Michael Savage.

If you bother to read it, it cites 22,000,000 as the total population of
Iraq. It goes on to say that the total number of people killed over the
23 year span of Saddam's reign was approximately 1,000,000 and point out
that this figure includes 800,000 Iraqis, Kuwaitis, Iranians, and other
foreign nationals killed as a result of various wars (the major portion
from the US-sponsored war with Iran) over the past quarter century.

It then goes on to cite an estimate of 200,000 killed by the regime in
the various prisons/gulags/torture centers, etc.

So maybe 22,000,000 is a little bit of an exaggeration on your part, or
did you just scan the page for the largest number on it? You gotta stop
letting those disk jockeys and preachers do your thinking for you....

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 09:15:07 GMT, Scott Moore
wrote:


I think its time to say something about this crap. The "end justifies
the means" was a goddam dictator's slogan, not a reasonable policy.
What is the farthest the right has sunk in recent years ? Calling
Clinton an adulterer ? Boy, was that out of line.

How about Regan, et al, selling weapons to Iran illegally and then
taking the money and sending it down to Contras in South America to
fund a war that congress explicitly said was illegal to fund?

How about The president and all of his top cabinette people lying
about Iraq being involved with 9/11?

What about The president and his people lying about the weapons of
mass destruction that they had 'secret' PROOF of?

Remember that little package of "anthrax" that Powell waved around the
United Nations?

Bush believes that The End Justifies The Means all the way.

You have a short memory for what the 'right' has done over the last
few years.

James, Seattle

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 12:49:42 GMT, Stephen Moore
wrote:

Sad thing is the left-coast will present him another Oscar for his
"outstanding" documentary.

Liberals never let truth stand in their way.

And what? The Rush Limbaughs of the right scream the "truth"?
Neocons never let the truth get in their way either, Stephen.

James, Seattle

Bob,
I thought 22M was allot.
Only 50M for WWII.
Thanks for pointing that out..
Clark

Bob Robinson wrote:

Clark Magnuson wrote:



Dan Caster wrote:

So how much would that be for each of the over 8,000,000 people that
Saddam Huisan caused to die? About $10,000 per life. Not much per
life in my opinion.

Dan


This link says Saddam murdered 22,000,000.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=5773

Great link, Clark. You obviously have the same investigational skills
and commitment to the truth as the great Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity,
Anne Coulter, and Michael Savage.

If you bother to read it, it cites 22,000,000 as the total population
of Iraq. It goes on to say that the total number of people killed over
the 23 year span of Saddam's reign was approximately 1,000,000 and
point out that this figure includes 800,000 Iraqis, Kuwaitis,
Iranians, and other foreign nationals killed as a result of various
wars (the major portion from the US-sponsored war with Iran) over the
past quarter century.

It then goes on to cite an estimate of 200,000 killed by the regime in
the various prisons/gulags/torture centers, etc.

So maybe 22,000,000 is a little bit of an exaggeration on your part,
or did you just scan the page for the largest number on it? You gotta
stop letting those disk jockeys and preachers do your thinking for
you....


--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

RainLover wrote:

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 12:49:42 GMT, Stephen Moore
wrote:



Sad thing is the left-coast will present him another Oscar for his
"outstanding" documentary.

Liberals never let truth stand in their way.



And what? The Rush Limbaughs of the right scream the "truth"?
Neocons never let the truth get in their way either, Stephen.

James, Seattle


It's always interesting how, by nature, perception skewes viewpoint
without acknowledgement that it is happening. A common example within
these newsgroups is a HUGE number of conservatives making the claim that
they are "centrist". By the same notion, I just claimed that they were
conservative due to my viewpoint as an ultra-liberal-pinko-commie.

Yesterday a discussion occurred elsewhere about how Moore was totally
out of line due to the fact that he had not-triple checked his sources
and facts, which made any claims Moore made within 911 totally bogus.
These same people completely supported the notion that the "facts"
about Iraq's WMD and intentions (we're speaking of specific items here,
not the generalizations) were TOTALLY true because the CIA had
information from single and quite unreliable sources.

Perspective. It completely changes what we each see when looking at the
same thing. Is it so hard for any one of us to recognize that our own
viewpoints skew our perceptions of such things as this movie?

The point? IT"S ENTERTAINMENT. Get over the notion that it's anything
else. This includes Limbaugh, Almost all news, etc. They are in the
BUSINESS of SALES. Don't like it? Make your own movie and entertain
those with similar viewpoints to you. Maybe you'll make some money too
and **** off us liberals


Koz (and not directed as a response to James who it appears My
perspective makes me agree with)

"Koz" wrote in message
...

The point? IT"S ENTERTAINMENT. Get over the notion that it's anything
else. This includes Limbaugh, Almost all news, etc. They are in the
BUSINESS of SALES. Don't like it? Make your own movie and entertain
those with similar viewpoints to you. Maybe you'll make some money too
and **** off us liberals

It's interesting, though, that he has a team of researchers who he says have
checked every fact, and a team of lawyers threatening, and just itching to
sue for libel any right-wing pundit who calls him a liar in print.

My guess is that he really, really hopes they will. Think about what it
would do for the box office. d8-)

Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:

It's interesting, though, that he has a team of researchers who he says have
checked every fact, and a team of lawyers threatening, and just itching to
sue for libel any right-wing pundit who calls him a liar in print.

My guess is that he really, really hopes they will. Think about what it
would do for the box office. d8-)

Ed Huntress

I think they learned their lessons with Al Frankin. If FOX hadn't sued
him and the far right not gotten so bent out of shape nobody would have
noticed it. Regardless of whether F911 is a documentary, propaganda or
just plain old entertainment, the funny thing about it is the right
wingers just can't stomach a taste of their own medicine.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Glenn,

Are you as fat and ugly as MM or do you have some other reason for your love
affair? Are your thought processes as screwed up as those other loony libs
who defend his lies? Do you really hate our country enough to see it
trashed by the likes of them? Your hatred of the right has turned your
brain to mush!

The lesson to be learned here is to give serious thought to what is best for
our country at large and give up this silly hatred for those who really can
and will improve things.

Keep in mind that the adults are in charge and protecting us from the likes
of Franken, gore, Kerry, Terry McCauliffe, Dan Rather, Janet Reno, Carville,
and all the other senseless propagandists from the goofy left. Even you are
benefiting from their true leadership.

I really don't mind you left wing nuts, but it is my country too that you
are trying, in your mis-guided efforts, to undermine.

Take a pill, finish your boat and sail to Cuba if you like lefty
Communism/Socialism so much.

George Willer

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:1zYEc.8$jp1.0@lakeread04...


Ed Huntress wrote:

It's interesting, though, that he has a team of researchers who he says
have
checked every fact, and a team of lawyers threatening, and just itching
to
sue for libel any right-wing pundit who calls him a liar in print.

My guess is that he really, really hopes they will. Think about what it
would do for the box office. d8-)

Ed Huntress

I think they learned their lessons with Al Frankin. If FOX hadn't sued
him and the far right not gotten so bent out of shape nobody would have
noticed it. Regardless of whether F911 is a documentary, propaganda or
just plain old entertainment, the funny thing about it is the right
wingers just can't stomach a taste of their own medicine.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"George Willer" wrote in message
...
Glenn,

Are you as fat and ugly as MM or do you have some other reason for your
love
affair? Are your thought processes as screwed up as those other loony
libs
who defend his lies? Do you really hate our country enough to see it
trashed by the likes of them? Your hatred of the right has turned your
brain to mush!

Hey, I guess you saw the movie then, eh, George? Tell us about it. I haven't
seen it yet.

What did you think of his books and the other movies? All I saw was "Roger
and Me."

You have watched the movies and read the books to form your own opinion,
right? I mean, you wouldn't just be jerking your knee whenever the
right-wing pundits tell you to jerk it, correct?

Ed Huntress

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 08:57:42 -0700, RainLover wrote:
How about Regan, et al, selling weapons to Iran illegally and then
taking the money and sending it down to Contras in South America to
fund a war that congress explicitly said was illegal to fund?

Actually, it wasn't illegal to sell weapons and spare parts to Iran. It was
against a previous administration's presidential policy directive, but an
administration has the unilateral right to change or waive such executive
orders. The President (and his administration acting in his name) has the
sole Constitutional right to conduct foreign policy.

It also wasn't illegal to fund the Contras. Congress expressly refused to
appropriate tax money for that purpose, but that's why the administration
didn't use tax money, and instead brokered the three cornered deal.
Refusing to appropriate money is an old Congressional trick used to
influence the behavior of the Executive, but Congressional funding is
only one source among many of funds.

Where trouble arose was that people lied to Congress about the deals.
This is always a problem when conducting foreign policy. Much of foreign
policy requires acting in secrecy, and Congress is known to be a sieve
when it comes to leaking secret information. So the tendency is to
withhold information from Congress. That's generally not in itself a crime,
but lying to Congress under oath when they directly ask you is a crime.
That's what actually got Ollie North, Poindexter, etc in trouble.

Gary

That's generally not in itself a crime,
but lying to Congress under oath when they directly ask you is a crime.
That's what actually got Ollie North, Poindexter, etc in trouble.

Gary

And klinton, as well!

No, Ed, I haven't and won't see it. I think it was Gunner who suggested not
having a bowling ball shoved up your butt doesn't disbar you from having an
opinion about it. Have you tried it and did you like it? Does having done
it make you a better person?

From whence do your brilliant opinions spring?

I was just beginning to think you may not be an airhead lefty after all. We
all make mistakes.

George Willer

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. net...
"George Willer" wrote in message
...
Glenn,

Are you as fat and ugly as MM or do you have some other reason for your
love
affair? Are your thought processes as screwed up as those other loony
libs
who defend his lies? Do you really hate our country enough to see it
trashed by the likes of them? Your hatred of the right has turned your
brain to mush!

Hey, I guess you saw the movie then, eh, George? Tell us about it. I
haven't
seen it yet.

What did you think of his books and the other movies? All I saw was "Roger
and Me."

You have watched the movies and read the books to form your own opinion,
right? I mean, you wouldn't just be jerking your knee whenever the
right-wing pundits tell you to jerk it, correct?

Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:


My guess is that he really, really hopes they will. Think about what it
would do for the box office. d8-)


F911 box office receipts were $8,000,000 on the first day,
topping the chart for last weeks movie going in the US:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...lm/3844573.stm

"George Willer" wrote in message
...
No, Ed, I haven't and won't see it. I think it was Gunner who suggested
not
having a bowling ball shoved up your butt doesn't disbar you from having
an
opinion about it.

But that was just another Gunnerism, George. Neither you nor Gunner (unless
he's read the books and seen the movies) knows if it's a bowling ball.

It's got to crack people up, watching other people spout opinions about
someone's writing or movie-making without having read what they wrote, or
having seen the movies they made.

It cracks me up a little, but I've been getting used to seeing it.


From whence do your brilliant opinions spring?

What opinion? Did you see me express an opinion about Moore's work? AFAIC,
having an "opinion" about something you've never seen or read is not a smart
thing to do.

Ed Huntress

"Guido" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:


My guess is that he really, really hopes they will. Think about what it
would do for the box office. d8-)


F911 box office receipts were $8,000,000 on the first day,
topping the chart for last weeks movie going in the US:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...lm/3844573.stm


Yeah, it's set several records here. I'm waiting to hear some more opinions
from people who actually have seen it. Besides, the lines to get in have
been awful.

Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:



Yeah, it's set several records here. I'm waiting to hear some more opinions
from people who actually have seen it. Besides, the lines to get in have
been awful.


Fox likes it:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122680,00.html

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 09:00:16 GMT, "charles" wrote:
Just a thought. But maybe we shouldnt have sent "evil sadam" the chemical
weapons to gas the khurds and Iranians. Maybe we shouldnt have trained his
secret police to murder and torture. Maybe we shouldnt have armed his
military.

Actually, Iraq's military was armed mostly with Soviet bloc weapons, and
French aircraft (mainly because the Soviets started wanting cash up front
as their empire was crumbling, and the French were willing to give credit
terms).

It was the Iranians who were given US made fighters (F14s) during the
reign of the Shah. Part of the Iran-Contra affair was arranging for spare
parts for those F14s to be transferred from Israel to Iran, with the US
"commission" for brokering the deal being funneled to the Contras, since
Congress had refused to directly fund the latter operation.

Note that most of the Arab world (Iran is Persian rather than Arab) has
been armed with Soviet bloc weapons for historical reasons having to do
with US support for Israel. (The Saudis have been a bit of an exception.
They were buying US aircraft and British tanks even before Gulf War I.)

Most of Iraq's dual use pesticide/war gas chemicals and chemical plant
came from Germany, though parts of it were bought from Britain and the
US (IMI and Dupont respectively). Note well that *both sides* in the
Iran-Iraq war used poison gas. India and China were the main suppliers
of chemicals and chemical plant to the Iranians. Making poison gas is
not a particularly high tech process (all sides in WWI had no problem
producing vast quantities of it). Any semi-industrialized country can do
it fairly easily and cheaply using industrial chemicals and chemical
plant available on the world commodity market.

Gas isn't more widely used simply because it is such a clumsy weapon,
useful in the static trench warfare of WWI and the similar circumstances
of the Iran-Iraq war, but not very useful in the more mobile types of
warfare generally fought since WWI.

Gary

"Guido" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:



Yeah, it's set several records here. I'm waiting to hear some more
opinions
from people who actually have seen it. Besides, the lines to get in have
been awful.


Fox likes it:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122680,00.html



AAaaghhh!! From Fox the News, yet? "It turns out to be a really brilliant
piece of work, and a film that members of all political parties should see
without fail... Not releasing this film will turn out to be the curse of his
[Disney's Michael Eisner's] career."???

Oh, boy, this is going to drive the right-wingers right up the wall. g

--
Ed Huntress
(remove "3" from email address for email reply)