Many years ago I got some experience working with VFD's as an industrial
electrician. Now that I'm trying to get one off of ebay for a mill drill,
I'm having a hard time finding one.
I'm trying to find one that will run my three phase 220 drill mill with
1.5hp motor, off of my 220 single phase house current. I'm sure that most
VFD's made for three phase will run from single phase, but I'm not totally
comfortable with that assumption, so am seeking some guidance from those
whose knowledge is way more current than mine. I'd like to run with a drive
that has a bit more capacity than needed, for derating and not wanting to
run the drive all the way up to the limits.
I couldn't find anything on the web that would offer any useful
guidance, so any help here would be greatly appreciated. The manufacturer's
web sites are a slog to find data in that's useful, and even that data
assumes a fairly recent product, rather than something a few years old, so I
could look for data on ten drives on ebay and get lucky to find data on
maybe one, which doesn't help me much, it seems.

I've found (from experience) that old AB VFDs (the ones in the big gray
steel boxes) work on single phase. I also have a TB Woods WFC 1000, a
small plastic Hitachi (J100), and a AC TECH MC1000 series all of these
run on single phase 600V. Sometimes the drive will only work if you
pick the proper two inputs otherwise is does not power up. I have
blown 2 drives trying this trick an Alcatel and an AC TECH. The AC TECH
was missing 2 terminal screws and I have a feeling they may have gotten
jammed under a circuit board during shipping. I have also downloaded
the manuals of some drives I have considered purchasing to check if
they had fault for dropping a phase (some do but I can't remenber which
I think they were newer German drives). I like the old AB units
because they are in a big steel box with a built in pot that lets you
change the speed easily and has no annoying fan. They do not have many
fancy features but that is ok with me. The TB Woods unit is also very
good but it doesn't have a built in pot.

stan

"carl mciver" wrote in message
k.net...
Many years ago I got some experience working with VFD's as an
industrial
electrician. Now that I'm trying to get one off of ebay for a mill drill,
I'm having a hard time finding one.
I'm trying to find one that will run my three phase 220 drill mill with
1.5hp motor, off of my 220 single phase house current. I'm sure that most
VFD's made for three phase will run from single phase, but I'm not totally
comfortable with that assumption, so am seeking some guidance from those
whose knowledge is way more current than mine. I'd like to run with a
drive
that has a bit more capacity than needed, for derating and not wanting to
run the drive all the way up to the limits.
I couldn't find anything on the web that would offer any useful
guidance, so any help here would be greatly appreciated. The
manufacturer's
web sites are a slog to find data in that's useful, and even that data
assumes a fairly recent product, rather than something a few years old, so
I
could look for data on ten drives on ebay and get lucky to find data on
maybe one, which doesn't help me much, it seems.

Try:

www.practicalmachinist.com

and browse through the section on phase conversion and VFDs. Lots of good
info there for the cost of spending some time to locate the good threads.
If you are looking for a used VFD, it's a good idea to buy one for which the
manual is available as there are often loads of parameters that can be set.
Most of those parameters aren't needed, but some of them might be and it's
nice to understand what they do. Also, some VFDs have external or snap-in
parameter units that are needed if you want to change the parameter settings
so make sure the unit is included if needed, or can still be purchased from
the manufacturer.

If you are in a hurry and on a bit of a budget, try
www.dealerselectric.com - they sell used/surplus drives and should be able
to recommend a drive that will fit your needs.

If you have a higher budget and like new equipment, try
www.automationdirct.com and talk to them about the Hitachi or other drives
they sell.

I'm using two Mitsubishi A-200 VFDs (one surplus, one used) and a new
Hitachi L-100 VFD on 220 VAC, single phase power and can recommend either
brand/model. Manuals for both of those are available on the web. A friend
uses the Teco drives from Dealer's Electric and likes those as well.

Mike

The key is to download the manual for the VFD you are looking at before
you buy. The manual will tell you if it is designed to convert single
phase to three phase. It should also tell you the maximum rated HP. I
am with the other guy, don't buy one unless you can get a manual. A
little Google searching using words like "VFD manual a123" should turn
up a manual for a mode A123 VFD. Actually, the VFD manufacturer's
website should have the manual.

Richard




carl mciver wrote:
Many years ago I got some experience working with VFD's as an industrial
electrician. Now that I'm trying to get one off of ebay for a mill drill,
I'm having a hard time finding one.
I'm trying to find one that will run my three phase 220 drill mill with
1.5hp motor, off of my 220 single phase house current. I'm sure that most
VFD's made for three phase will run from single phase, but I'm not totally
comfortable with that assumption, so am seeking some guidance from those
whose knowledge is way more current than mine. I'd like to run with a drive
that has a bit more capacity than needed, for derating and not wanting to
run the drive all the way up to the limits.
I couldn't find anything on the web that would offer any useful
guidance, so any help here would be greatly appreciated. The manufacturer's
web sites are a slog to find data in that's useful, and even that data
assumes a fairly recent product, rather than something a few years old, so I
could look for data on ten drives on ebay and get lucky to find data on
maybe one, which doesn't help me much, it seems.



--
http://www.fergusonsculpture.com
Sculptures in copper and other metals

FWIW, the manuals don't always explicitly tell you if they can take single
phase power in. Leastways I couldn't that admission in the Mitsubishi
manuals but they both run fine on 220 single phase. They are recently
obsoleted drives though and manuals for newer drives may routinely address
the issue. A call to the manufacturer would probably be in order before
committing to buy an older, used VFD.

Mike

"Richard Ferguson" wrote in message
...
The key is to download the manual for the VFD you are looking at before
you buy. The manual will tell you if it is designed to convert single
phase to three phase. It should also tell you the maximum rated HP. I am
with the other guy, don't buy one unless you can get a manual. A little
Google searching using words like "VFD manual a123" should turn up a
manual for a mode A123 VFD. Actually, the VFD manufacturer's website
should have the manual.

Richard




carl mciver wrote:
Many years ago I got some experience working with VFD's as an
industrial
electrician. Now that I'm trying to get one off of ebay for a mill
drill,
I'm having a hard time finding one.
I'm trying to find one that will run my three phase 220 drill mill
with
1.5hp motor, off of my 220 single phase house current. I'm sure that
most
VFD's made for three phase will run from single phase, but I'm not
totally
comfortable with that assumption, so am seeking some guidance from those
whose knowledge is way more current than mine. I'd like to run with a
drive
that has a bit more capacity than needed, for derating and not wanting to
run the drive all the way up to the limits.
I couldn't find anything on the web that would offer any useful
guidance, so any help here would be greatly appreciated. The
manufacturer's
web sites are a slog to find data in that's useful, and even that data
assumes a fairly recent product, rather than something a few years old,
so I
could look for data on ten drives on ebay and get lucky to find data on
maybe one, which doesn't help me much, it seems.



--
http://www.fergusonsculpture.com
Sculptures in copper and other metals

"xray" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 May 2006 08:06:50 -0500, "Mike Henry"
wrote:

If you have a higher budget and like new equipment, try
www.automationdirct.com and talk to them about the Hitachi or other drives
they sell.

Typo in that link, I think. It works but isn't a vendor.
Probably should be www.automationdirect.com

Oops - thanks for corrrecting that typo!

I'm using two Mitsubishi A-200 VFDs (one surplus, one used) and a new
Hitachi L-100 VFD on 220 VAC, single phase power and can recommend either
brand/model. Manuals for both of those are available on the web. A
friend
uses the Teco drives from Dealer's Electric and likes those as well.

I bought a new Hitachi L200-015NFU a few months ago and it is working
fine with single-phase 220 input on my 1.5 HP lathe motor. I was
surprized at the small size and the number of controls and parameters it
offers. The manual is well over a hundred pages.

Here's a link to where I bought it.
http://www.automation4less.com/store...cts.asp?cat=79
They were quick and helpful.

In article , says...
FWIW, the manuals don't always explicitly tell you if they can take single
phase power in. Leastways I couldn't that admission in the Mitsubishi
manuals but they both run fine on 220 single phase. They are recently
obsoleted drives though and manuals for newer drives may routinely address
the issue. A call to the manufacturer would probably be in order before
committing to buy an older, used VFD.

Mike


Yes, it's more the exception to find mention of single phase operation
in the manuals. Of the Allen-Bradley, Mitsubishi, and Yaskawa drives
I've used in the past couple years, only Yaskawa mentions single phase
operation, even though all would operate on single phase. In fact, in 20
years I've never run across a small VFD that *wouldn't* run on single
phase. If you ask the manufacturer, the usual recommendation is to
derate by 1/3 to 1/2 with single phase input.

Heed the advice to not buy a drive if you can't get a manual.

Ned Simmons

On Sun, 21 May 2006 19:23:48 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

In article , says...
FWIW, the manuals don't always explicitly tell you if they can take single
phase power in. Leastways I couldn't that admission in the Mitsubishi
manuals but they both run fine on 220 single phase. They are recently
obsoleted drives though and manuals for newer drives may routinely address
the issue. A call to the manufacturer would probably be in order before
committing to buy an older, used VFD.

Mike


Yes, it's more the exception to find mention of single phase operation
in the manuals. Of the Allen-Bradley, Mitsubishi, and Yaskawa drives
I've used in the past couple years, only Yaskawa mentions single phase
operation, even though all would operate on single phase. In fact, in 20
years I've never run across a small VFD that *wouldn't* run on single
phase. If you ask the manufacturer, the usual recommendation is to
derate by 1/3 to 1/2 with single phase input.

Heed the advice to not buy a drive if you can't get a manual.

Ned Simmons

A lot of the new AB Powerflex 4 and 40 models are specified for single
phase. They even have models for 120 VAC. See
http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/3...23285/2531069/

Some of these have pots already on them. They're not cheap, around
$400 or so for a 220 V single phase in.

Pete Keillor

On Sun, 21 May 2006 19:23:48 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

In article , says...
FWIW, the manuals don't always explicitly tell you if they can take single
phase power in. Leastways I couldn't that admission in the Mitsubishi
manuals but they both run fine on 220 single phase. They are recently
obsoleted drives though and manuals for newer drives may routinely address
the issue. A call to the manufacturer would probably be in order before
committing to buy an older, used VFD.

Mike


Yes, it's more the exception to find mention of single phase operation
in the manuals. Of the Allen-Bradley, Mitsubishi, and Yaskawa drives
I've used in the past couple years, only Yaskawa mentions single phase
operation, even though all would operate on single phase. In fact, in 20
years I've never run across a small VFD that *wouldn't* run on single
phase. If you ask the manufacturer, the usual recommendation is to
derate by 1/3 to 1/2 with single phase input.

Heed the advice to not buy a drive if you can't get a manual.

Ned Simmons

The Hitachi L200 that I mentioned elsewhere in the thread is specified
for either single- or 3-phase input. The manual is clear about that and
about how to hook it up for either.

The thing I wasn't sure about is whether the power rating needed to be
lowered for single-phase input. The seller researched it for me and told
me that either input phasing didn't change the output specs. I haven't
noticed any problems but haven't really stressed it to prove that.

"carl mciver" wrote in message
k.net...
Many years ago I got some experience working with VFD's as an
industrial
electrician. Now that I'm trying to get one off of ebay for a mill drill,
I'm having a hard time finding one.

AB 1305's will work fine on single phase. Documentation is easy to find on
the web.

carl mciver wrote:

I'm trying to find one that will run my three phase 220 drill mill with
1.5hp motor, off of my 220 single phase house current. I'm sure that most
VFD's made for three phase will run from single phase, but I'm not totally
comfortable with that assumption, so am seeking some guidance from those
whose knowledge is way more current than mine. I'd like to run with a drive
that has a bit more capacity than needed, for derating and not wanting to
run the drive all the way up to the limits.

I think most all VFD's will work on single phase but not at the rated
output. I would look for one that is rated at least 3 hp to run your
1.5 hp motor. It would not be too hard to modify one with bigger
capacitors and rectifiers to make it work better on single phase. But
there are so many available on Ebay, why bother. As others have said
having a manual is nearly a requirement. You can program so many
things as only run in one direction, max frequency, min frequency,
aceleration and deceleration time. And the programmer may not be part
of the basic unit.

Dan

carl mciver wrote:
Many years ago I got some experience working with VFD's as an industrial
electrician. Now that I'm trying to get one off of ebay for a mill drill,
I'm having a hard time finding one.
I'm trying to find one that will run my three phase 220 drill mill with
1.5hp motor, off of my 220 single phase house current. I'm sure that most
VFD's made for three phase will run from single phase, but I'm not totally
comfortable with that assumption, so am seeking some guidance from those
whose knowledge is way more current than mine. I'd like to run with a drive
that has a bit more capacity than needed, for derating and not wanting to
run the drive all the way up to the limits.
I couldn't find anything on the web that would offer any useful
guidance, so any help here would be greatly appreciated. The manufacturer's
web sites are a slog to find data in that's useful, and even that data
assumes a fairly recent product, rather than something a few years old, so I
could look for data on ten drives on ebay and get lucky to find data on
maybe one, which doesn't help me much, it seems.


I'm running 2 of these on a daily basis,
one for the lathe and one for the mill.

They are a little slow at ramping up and
braking and they make the motor sing a
little but well worth the price:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HITACHI-Inverter...QQcmdZViewItem

In article , keillorp135
@chartermi.net says...
On Sun, 21 May 2006 19:23:48 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

In article , says...
FWIW, the manuals don't always explicitly tell you if they can take single
phase power in. Leastways I couldn't that admission in the Mitsubishi
manuals but they both run fine on 220 single phase. They are recently
obsoleted drives though and manuals for newer drives may routinely address
the issue. A call to the manufacturer would probably be in order before
committing to buy an older, used VFD.

Mike


Yes, it's more the exception to find mention of single phase operation
in the manuals. Of the Allen-Bradley, Mitsubishi, and Yaskawa drives
I've used in the past couple years, only Yaskawa mentions single phase
operation, even though all would operate on single phase. In fact, in 20
years I've never run across a small VFD that *wouldn't* run on single
phase. If you ask the manufacturer, the usual recommendation is to
derate by 1/3 to 1/2 with single phase input.

Heed the advice to not buy a drive if you can't get a manual.

Ned Simmons

A lot of the new AB Powerflex 4 and 40 models are specified for single
phase. They even have models for 120 VAC. See
http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/3...23285/2531069/

But aren't those single phase only? My recollection is that the
literature doesn't mention that the 3 phase models will also run on
single phase.


Some of these have pots already on them. They're not cheap, around
$400 or so for a 220 V single phase in.

A-B has always seemed to get away with charging a premium for comparable
products, though it's not as bad as it used to be. 10-15 years ago you
could figure that a small A-B PLC would run almost twice the price of a
similar GE or Mitsubishi.

Ned Simmons

On Mon, 22 May 2006 22:23:33 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

In article , keillorp135
says...
On Sun, 21 May 2006 19:23:48 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

In article , says...
snip Ned Simmons

A lot of the new AB Powerflex 4 and 40 models are specified for single
phase. They even have models for 120 VAC. See
http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/3...23285/2531069/

But aren't those single phase only? My recollection is that the
literature doesn't mention that the 3 phase models will also run on
single phase.


That's a good question. It appears so from the lit. I'll ask the
vendor.

Pete

Some of these have pots already on them. They're not cheap, around
$400 or so for a 220 V single phase in.

A-B has always seemed to get away with charging a premium for comparable
products, though it's not as bad as it used to be. 10-15 years ago you
could figure that a small A-B PLC would run almost twice the price of a
similar GE or Mitsubishi.

Ned Simmons