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Getting a VFD on ebay
Many years ago I got some experience working with VFD's as an industrial
electrician. Now that I'm trying to get one off of ebay for a mill drill, I'm having a hard time finding one. I'm trying to find one that will run my three phase 220 drill mill with 1.5hp motor, off of my 220 single phase house current. I'm sure that most VFD's made for three phase will run from single phase, but I'm not totally comfortable with that assumption, so am seeking some guidance from those whose knowledge is way more current than mine. I'd like to run with a drive that has a bit more capacity than needed, for derating and not wanting to run the drive all the way up to the limits. I couldn't find anything on the web that would offer any useful guidance, so any help here would be greatly appreciated. The manufacturer's web sites are a slog to find data in that's useful, and even that data assumes a fairly recent product, rather than something a few years old, so I could look for data on ten drives on ebay and get lucky to find data on maybe one, which doesn't help me much, it seems. |
Getting a VFD on ebay
I've found (from experience) that old AB VFDs (the ones in the big gray
steel boxes) work on single phase. I also have a TB Woods WFC 1000, a small plastic Hitachi (J100), and a AC TECH MC1000 series all of these run on single phase 600V. Sometimes the drive will only work if you pick the proper two inputs otherwise is does not power up. I have blown 2 drives trying this trick an Alcatel and an AC TECH. The AC TECH was missing 2 terminal screws and I have a feeling they may have gotten jammed under a circuit board during shipping. I have also downloaded the manuals of some drives I have considered purchasing to check if they had fault for dropping a phase (some do but I can't remenber which I think they were newer German drives). I like the old AB units because they are in a big steel box with a built in pot that lets you change the speed easily and has no annoying fan. They do not have many fancy features but that is ok with me. The TB Woods unit is also very good but it doesn't have a built in pot. stan |
Getting a VFD on ebay
"carl mciver" wrote in message k.net... Many years ago I got some experience working with VFD's as an industrial electrician. Now that I'm trying to get one off of ebay for a mill drill, I'm having a hard time finding one. I'm trying to find one that will run my three phase 220 drill mill with 1.5hp motor, off of my 220 single phase house current. I'm sure that most VFD's made for three phase will run from single phase, but I'm not totally comfortable with that assumption, so am seeking some guidance from those whose knowledge is way more current than mine. I'd like to run with a drive that has a bit more capacity than needed, for derating and not wanting to run the drive all the way up to the limits. I couldn't find anything on the web that would offer any useful guidance, so any help here would be greatly appreciated. The manufacturer's web sites are a slog to find data in that's useful, and even that data assumes a fairly recent product, rather than something a few years old, so I could look for data on ten drives on ebay and get lucky to find data on maybe one, which doesn't help me much, it seems. Try: www.practicalmachinist.com and browse through the section on phase conversion and VFDs. Lots of good info there for the cost of spending some time to locate the good threads. If you are looking for a used VFD, it's a good idea to buy one for which the manual is available as there are often loads of parameters that can be set. Most of those parameters aren't needed, but some of them might be and it's nice to understand what they do. Also, some VFDs have external or snap-in parameter units that are needed if you want to change the parameter settings so make sure the unit is included if needed, or can still be purchased from the manufacturer. If you are in a hurry and on a bit of a budget, try www.dealerselectric.com - they sell used/surplus drives and should be able to recommend a drive that will fit your needs. If you have a higher budget and like new equipment, try www.automationdirct.com and talk to them about the Hitachi or other drives they sell. I'm using two Mitsubishi A-200 VFDs (one surplus, one used) and a new Hitachi L-100 VFD on 220 VAC, single phase power and can recommend either brand/model. Manuals for both of those are available on the web. A friend uses the Teco drives from Dealer's Electric and likes those as well. Mike |
Getting a VFD on ebay
The key is to download the manual for the VFD you are looking at before
you buy. The manual will tell you if it is designed to convert single phase to three phase. It should also tell you the maximum rated HP. I am with the other guy, don't buy one unless you can get a manual. A little Google searching using words like "VFD manual a123" should turn up a manual for a mode A123 VFD. Actually, the VFD manufacturer's website should have the manual. Richard carl mciver wrote: Many years ago I got some experience working with VFD's as an industrial electrician. Now that I'm trying to get one off of ebay for a mill drill, I'm having a hard time finding one. I'm trying to find one that will run my three phase 220 drill mill with 1.5hp motor, off of my 220 single phase house current. I'm sure that most VFD's made for three phase will run from single phase, but I'm not totally comfortable with that assumption, so am seeking some guidance from those whose knowledge is way more current than mine. I'd like to run with a drive that has a bit more capacity than needed, for derating and not wanting to run the drive all the way up to the limits. I couldn't find anything on the web that would offer any useful guidance, so any help here would be greatly appreciated. The manufacturer's web sites are a slog to find data in that's useful, and even that data assumes a fairly recent product, rather than something a few years old, so I could look for data on ten drives on ebay and get lucky to find data on maybe one, which doesn't help me much, it seems. -- http://www.fergusonsculpture.com Sculptures in copper and other metals |
Getting a VFD on ebay
FWIW, the manuals don't always explicitly tell you if they can take single
phase power in. Leastways I couldn't that admission in the Mitsubishi manuals but they both run fine on 220 single phase. They are recently obsoleted drives though and manuals for newer drives may routinely address the issue. A call to the manufacturer would probably be in order before committing to buy an older, used VFD. Mike "Richard Ferguson" wrote in message ... The key is to download the manual for the VFD you are looking at before you buy. The manual will tell you if it is designed to convert single phase to three phase. It should also tell you the maximum rated HP. I am with the other guy, don't buy one unless you can get a manual. A little Google searching using words like "VFD manual a123" should turn up a manual for a mode A123 VFD. Actually, the VFD manufacturer's website should have the manual. Richard carl mciver wrote: Many years ago I got some experience working with VFD's as an industrial electrician. Now that I'm trying to get one off of ebay for a mill drill, I'm having a hard time finding one. I'm trying to find one that will run my three phase 220 drill mill with 1.5hp motor, off of my 220 single phase house current. I'm sure that most VFD's made for three phase will run from single phase, but I'm not totally comfortable with that assumption, so am seeking some guidance from those whose knowledge is way more current than mine. I'd like to run with a drive that has a bit more capacity than needed, for derating and not wanting to run the drive all the way up to the limits. I couldn't find anything on the web that would offer any useful guidance, so any help here would be greatly appreciated. The manufacturer's web sites are a slog to find data in that's useful, and even that data assumes a fairly recent product, rather than something a few years old, so I could look for data on ten drives on ebay and get lucky to find data on maybe one, which doesn't help me much, it seems. -- http://www.fergusonsculpture.com Sculptures in copper and other metals |
Getting a VFD on ebay
"xray" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 May 2006 08:06:50 -0500, "Mike Henry" wrote: If you have a higher budget and like new equipment, try www.automationdirct.com and talk to them about the Hitachi or other drives they sell. Typo in that link, I think. It works but isn't a vendor. Probably should be www.automationdirect.com Oops - thanks for corrrecting that typo! I'm using two Mitsubishi A-200 VFDs (one surplus, one used) and a new Hitachi L-100 VFD on 220 VAC, single phase power and can recommend either brand/model. Manuals for both of those are available on the web. A friend uses the Teco drives from Dealer's Electric and likes those as well. I bought a new Hitachi L200-015NFU a few months ago and it is working fine with single-phase 220 input on my 1.5 HP lathe motor. I was surprized at the small size and the number of controls and parameters it offers. The manual is well over a hundred pages. Here's a link to where I bought it. http://www.automation4less.com/store...cts.asp?cat=79 They were quick and helpful. |
Getting a VFD on ebay
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Getting a VFD on ebay
On Sun, 21 May 2006 19:23:48 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:
In article , says... FWIW, the manuals don't always explicitly tell you if they can take single phase power in. Leastways I couldn't that admission in the Mitsubishi manuals but they both run fine on 220 single phase. They are recently obsoleted drives though and manuals for newer drives may routinely address the issue. A call to the manufacturer would probably be in order before committing to buy an older, used VFD. Mike Yes, it's more the exception to find mention of single phase operation in the manuals. Of the Allen-Bradley, Mitsubishi, and Yaskawa drives I've used in the past couple years, only Yaskawa mentions single phase operation, even though all would operate on single phase. In fact, in 20 years I've never run across a small VFD that *wouldn't* run on single phase. If you ask the manufacturer, the usual recommendation is to derate by 1/3 to 1/2 with single phase input. Heed the advice to not buy a drive if you can't get a manual. Ned Simmons The Hitachi L200 that I mentioned elsewhere in the thread is specified for either single- or 3-phase input. The manual is clear about that and about how to hook it up for either. The thing I wasn't sure about is whether the power rating needed to be lowered for single-phase input. The seller researched it for me and told me that either input phasing didn't change the output specs. I haven't noticed any problems but haven't really stressed it to prove that. |
Getting a VFD on ebay
"carl mciver" wrote in message k.net... Many years ago I got some experience working with VFD's as an industrial electrician. Now that I'm trying to get one off of ebay for a mill drill, I'm having a hard time finding one. AB 1305's will work fine on single phase. Documentation is easy to find on the web. |
Getting a VFD on ebay
carl mciver wrote: I'm trying to find one that will run my three phase 220 drill mill with 1.5hp motor, off of my 220 single phase house current. I'm sure that most VFD's made for three phase will run from single phase, but I'm not totally comfortable with that assumption, so am seeking some guidance from those whose knowledge is way more current than mine. I'd like to run with a drive that has a bit more capacity than needed, for derating and not wanting to run the drive all the way up to the limits. I think most all VFD's will work on single phase but not at the rated output. I would look for one that is rated at least 3 hp to run your 1.5 hp motor. It would not be too hard to modify one with bigger capacitors and rectifiers to make it work better on single phase. But there are so many available on Ebay, why bother. As others have said having a manual is nearly a requirement. You can program so many things as only run in one direction, max frequency, min frequency, aceleration and deceleration time. And the programmer may not be part of the basic unit. Dan |
Getting a VFD on ebay
carl mciver wrote:
Many years ago I got some experience working with VFD's as an industrial electrician. Now that I'm trying to get one off of ebay for a mill drill, I'm having a hard time finding one. I'm trying to find one that will run my three phase 220 drill mill with 1.5hp motor, off of my 220 single phase house current. I'm sure that most VFD's made for three phase will run from single phase, but I'm not totally comfortable with that assumption, so am seeking some guidance from those whose knowledge is way more current than mine. I'd like to run with a drive that has a bit more capacity than needed, for derating and not wanting to run the drive all the way up to the limits. I couldn't find anything on the web that would offer any useful guidance, so any help here would be greatly appreciated. The manufacturer's web sites are a slog to find data in that's useful, and even that data assumes a fairly recent product, rather than something a few years old, so I could look for data on ten drives on ebay and get lucky to find data on maybe one, which doesn't help me much, it seems. I'm running 2 of these on a daily basis, one for the lathe and one for the mill. They are a little slow at ramping up and braking and they make the motor sing a little but well worth the price: http://cgi.ebay.com/HITACHI-Inverter...QQcmdZViewItem |
Getting a VFD on ebay
In article , keillorp135
@chartermi.net says... On Sun, 21 May 2006 19:23:48 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote: In article , says... FWIW, the manuals don't always explicitly tell you if they can take single phase power in. Leastways I couldn't that admission in the Mitsubishi manuals but they both run fine on 220 single phase. They are recently obsoleted drives though and manuals for newer drives may routinely address the issue. A call to the manufacturer would probably be in order before committing to buy an older, used VFD. Mike Yes, it's more the exception to find mention of single phase operation in the manuals. Of the Allen-Bradley, Mitsubishi, and Yaskawa drives I've used in the past couple years, only Yaskawa mentions single phase operation, even though all would operate on single phase. In fact, in 20 years I've never run across a small VFD that *wouldn't* run on single phase. If you ask the manufacturer, the usual recommendation is to derate by 1/3 to 1/2 with single phase input. Heed the advice to not buy a drive if you can't get a manual. Ned Simmons A lot of the new AB Powerflex 4 and 40 models are specified for single phase. They even have models for 120 VAC. See http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/3...23285/2531069/ But aren't those single phase only? My recollection is that the literature doesn't mention that the 3 phase models will also run on single phase. Some of these have pots already on them. They're not cheap, around $400 or so for a 220 V single phase in. A-B has always seemed to get away with charging a premium for comparable products, though it's not as bad as it used to be. 10-15 years ago you could figure that a small A-B PLC would run almost twice the price of a similar GE or Mitsubishi. Ned Simmons |
Getting a VFD on ebay
On Mon, 22 May 2006 22:23:33 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote: In article , keillorp135 says... On Sun, 21 May 2006 19:23:48 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote: In article , says... snip Ned Simmons A lot of the new AB Powerflex 4 and 40 models are specified for single phase. They even have models for 120 VAC. See http://www.ab.com/en/epub/catalogs/3...23285/2531069/ But aren't those single phase only? My recollection is that the literature doesn't mention that the 3 phase models will also run on single phase. That's a good question. It appears so from the lit. I'll ask the vendor. Pete Some of these have pots already on them. They're not cheap, around $400 or so for a 220 V single phase in. A-B has always seemed to get away with charging a premium for comparable products, though it's not as bad as it used to be. 10-15 years ago you could figure that a small A-B PLC would run almost twice the price of a similar GE or Mitsubishi. Ned Simmons |
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