I'll be building a carport in the near future. I would like to make my own
frame to support the roofing panels. The span between the posts will be 20
feet. I'm thinking that some 2x4x.120 rectangle tube should be strong enough
for the horizontal, but what I need to know is will the tube sag under it's
own weight . Has anybody had any experience with this kind of framework
before, or is there some place you could direct me to find some answers?

Many Thanks,

Chuck in Phoenix

"Chuck" wrote in message
news:H8u7c.48396$Zp.2100@fed1read07...

I'll be building a carport in the near future. I would like to make my own
frame to support the roofing panels. The span between the posts will be 20
feet. I'm thinking that some 2x4x.120 rectangle tube should be strong
enough
for the horizontal, but what I need to know is will the tube sag under
it's
own weight . Has anybody had any experience with this kind of framework
before, or is there some place you could direct me to find some answers?

Many Thanks,

Chuck in Phoenix



I-beam would be better, it would put the most metal where it's stressed the
most. I wouldn't want to go dancing in the middle of _any_ 20 foot beam
that's only four inches deep, though (it would give a new meaning to the
word "springtime"). Surely there's a building code for your area that would
cover this?

Why not use wood, or manufactured wooden I-beams?

In the basement of my house I did't want any posts .I bought some .5 inch x 9
inch x 20 feet long flat bar steel .I then bolted it between two 2 x10
joists.Its strong and straight and I can nail to it.Best of all it only cost
around $100.

The carports here in the southwest are often built from some very light
weight material. The roofs are often made of galvanized corrugated sheet
metal in the 18 - 20 gauge range.The frames that must hold them up are also
on the light side. The kind of structure I'm planning and are really common
down here, could never hold up to any kind of snow load or even be walked
on.
I guess when I said "carport" I thought of one thing and the guys from other
parts of the country picture another. An example of what I.'m thinking of
can be found at
http://www.patiostore.com/homeimprov...rts_Steel.html .

Any thoughts on the framing would be a great help.

Thanks again,

Chuck in Phoenix









"TLKALLAM8" wrote in message
...
In the basement of my house I did't want any posts .I bought some .5 inch
x 9
inch x 20 feet long flat bar steel .I then bolted it between two 2 x10
joists.Its strong and straight and I can nail to it.Best of all it only
cost
around $100.

How about this: I have a "Kwik-Bilt" carport kit still in crates never
opened that I will gladly sell. Take a look at:
http://www.kwikbilt.com/BreezePort.htm and let me know.

--
There are only 10 kinds of people...Those that understand binary and
those that don't.



"Chuck" wrote in message
news:H8u7c.48396$Zp.2100@fed1read07...

I'll be building a carport in the near future. I would like to make my own
frame to support the roofing panels. The span between the posts will be 20
feet. I'm thinking that some 2x4x.120 rectangle tube should be strong
enough
for the horizontal, but what I need to know is will the tube sag under
it's
own weight . Has anybody had any experience with this kind of framework
before, or is there some place you could direct me to find some answers?

Many Thanks,

Chuck in Phoenix

Chuck writes:

The span between the posts will be 20
feet. I'm thinking that some 2x4x.120 rectangle tube should be strong
enough for the horizontal, but what I need to know is will the tube
sag under it's own weight

My screen enclosure (Florida, no snow, but hurricanes) spans about 24' with
2 x 6 aluminum rectangle tube. I expect it would hold my weight, but I
sure wouldn't want to try it.

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:43:01 -0700, "Chuck"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

the guys who make the tubing...


I'll be building a carport in the near future. I would like to make my own
frame to support the roofing panels. The span between the posts will be 20
feet. I'm thinking that some 2x4x.120 rectangle tube should be strong enough
for the horizontal, but what I need to know is will the tube sag under it's
own weight . Has anybody had any experience with this kind of framework
before, or is there some place you could direct me to find some answers?

Many Thanks,

Chuck in Phoenix


************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:43:01 -0700, "Chuck"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

now...let me think....


I'll be building a carport in the near future. I would like to make my own
frame to support the roofing panels. The span between the posts will be 20
feet. I'm thinking that some 2x4x.120 rectangle tube should be strong enough
for the horizontal, but what I need to know is will the tube sag under it's
own weight . Has anybody had any experience with this kind of framework
before, or is there some place you could direct me to find some answers?

Many Thanks,

Chuck in Phoenix


************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:43:01 -0700, "Chuck"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Gah! This Post now stuff sucks.....


I'll be building a carport in the near future. I would like to make my own
frame to support the roofing panels. The span between the posts will be 20
feet. I'm thinking that some 2x4x.120 rectangle tube should be strong enough
for the horizontal, but what I need to know is will the tube sag under it's
own weight . Has anybody had any experience with this kind of framework
before, or is there some place you could direct me to find some answers?

Many Thanks,

Chuck in Phoenix


************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:43:01 -0700, "Chuck"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

OK. My first serious reply.

Flat roof or gabled? Webbed or atrium/cathedral? Are you going to use
purlins?

Who is going to pin the bell on the cat?

You ask whether the material will sag under its own weight. Who will
walk around there putting the sheeting on? How much will they (you)
weigh?

It all gets messy. take a 100 X 50 RHS, and support it it at the ends.
Does it sag? If not then it won't. That's steel as distinct from
timber. It does what it will do. Now stand on it. Does it deform?
Deforming is not just bending. If it deforms it won't come back.

Now get 3 of them and build a mockup of the three 100 X 50 RHS beams
and the purlins between them. Walk around on that.

Then maybe go back to the tube makers and ask for specs. Also ask the
Shire/city.

Seriously. the makers have spans for beams, purlins, webbing, loads
etc.

Here is not the fair place to ask.


I'll be building a carport in the near future. I would like to make my own
frame to support the roofing panels. The span between the posts will be 20
feet. I'm thinking that some 2x4x.120 rectangle tube should be strong enough
for the horizontal, but what I need to know is will the tube sag under it's
own weight . Has anybody had any experience with this kind of framework
before, or is there some place you could direct me to find some answers?

Many Thanks,

Chuck in Phoenix


************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

"Chuck" wrote in message
news:H8u7c.48396$Zp.2100@fed1read07...

I'll be building a carport in the near future. I would like to make my
own
frame to support the roofing panels. The span between the posts will be
20
feet. I'm thinking that some 2x4x.120 rectangle tube should be strong
enough
for the horizontal, but what I need to know is will the tube sag under
it's
own weight . Has anybody had any experience with this kind of framework
before, or is there some place you could direct me to find some answers?

Many Thanks,

Chuck in Phoenix



I was a steel erection contractor in Nevada for nine years. I built
carports, and did repairs for 275 apartment complexes in Las Vegas.

DON'T use the square tube. It will sag normally, and if you have any top
load, such as snow, or even rain, it can sag further.

Do it once, and do it right. Use 3 x 3 x .120 columns. Use 10 to 12" C
purlins. Use Galvanized steel sheets. You can find the materials by
googling "carport". Depending on the size of your city, you may have some
of the things locally available. If not, it is no big deal to get it sent
in. Check with metal building makers in your area, and they may have some
extra metal they will sell you at a good price. Metal carports are
remarkably simple to build, and one using the above components will have an
80 mph wind load. Snow loads are entirely different, and if you live in a
snowy area, you might want to put three purlins instead of two.

Using the materials mentioned above, cost should run you about $700 for a
20w x 18 deep two space carport. And that is using painted corrugated
instead of plain galvanized. Color trim is available to go with color
sheets, but you can use galvanized panels and colored trim. Galvanized
panels will be about 60% of color panels. Less in some areas. Contact your
local steel suppliers and see if they stock these items for carport repair
companies.

The whole key is getting the four support columns in correctly. Square and
plumb. Weld some rebar onto the base of the posts under ground level. Make
a wash on the top of the concrete pour for water to run off. (mound up the
concrete) For 18' deep spaces, allow for 2 to 3 inches of slope. Space
your purlins at 12'. Bolt the purlins to the posts once they are cemented
in and have dried for three days. Screw the sheets to the purlins with self
tapping screws WITH sealer neoprene ring. 5/16" head, and one inch long,
available at the local fastener place. Add trim. Voila! A nice carport.

If you want it electrifried, add conduit during the digging phase.

HTH. Been a while since I did them, but they are as close to TinkerToys as
you can get. Definitely NOT rocket science, but well within the
capabilities of the normal Tim the Tool Man Taylor. I did one myself, which
I will gladly e mail a picture of. It is a sun shade, and not a real
carport, though. The frame is of 1.25" .065 tube, but when you do it that
way, you have to almost make a bar joist out of it or it will really sag. I
used a row of ornamental metal castings between two parallel square tubes to
make a rigid joist. I can go and pop some pictures of a local apartment
carport that will show exactly the construction methods if you e mail me.

You will have a lifelong carport that you will never have to paint, except
the posts. It won't sag. It won't rust. It won't blow away.

Steve

"Old Nick" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:43:01 -0700, "Chuck"
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

OK. My first serious reply.

Flat roof or gabled? Webbed or atrium/cathedral? Are you going to use
purlins?

Who is going to pin the bell on the cat?

You ask whether the material will sag under its own weight. Who will
walk around there putting the sheeting on? How much will they (you)
weigh?

It all gets messy. take a 100 X 50 RHS, and support it it at the ends.
Does it sag? If not then it won't. That's steel as distinct from
timber. It does what it will do. Now stand on it. Does it deform?
Deforming is not just bending. If it deforms it won't come back.

Now get 3 of them and build a mockup of the three 100 X 50 RHS beams
and the purlins between them. Walk around on that.

Then maybe go back to the tube makers and ask for specs. Also ask the
Shire/city.

Seriously. the makers have spans for beams, purlins, webbing, loads
etc.

Here is not the fair place to ask.


Don't be negative, Nick. I think the poster has received some good advice
so far.

Remember what Henry Ford said, " Whether you think you can or you think you
can't, you're right."

Some netnanny will probably correct me if I am not explicitly correct, or if
it was Rodney Dangerfield who said it instead of Henry Ford, but you get the
gist of the deal.

Carports are simple with readily available materials. And I DO mean simple.

Steve

SteveB

Thank you very much for that very informative response.
The steel building suppliers in the area have all of the materials that you
have
mentioned. The rest of the story that I didn't include in my original post
( I didn't want to cloud the issue ) is that the carport will supported on
2 sides, the back and left sides. This would mean that I would only need 1
post to support the right side towards the front of the carport . I wanted a
clean way to fasten the horizontal beams to my house on the left and in the
back of the structure, and I thought that a 2x4x1/8" rectangle tube would
work
and look cool welded to plates bolted to the house. Using a 4" tube would
also give me more clearance than a 10 or 12 " beam. I guess I just wanted
something a little different.
The carport is to be 22' wide and 20' deep. My plan is to use 3 purlins 2'
from the front and back sides and 1 in the middle of the 16' span at 8'.

Does this sound reasonable?

I also am of the opinion of doing it right the first time and be done with
it.

I thank you for your time and information.

Chuck in Phoenix




----- Original Message -----
From: "SteveB"
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:31 PM
Subject: Carport Framing Question

snipped-----

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:36:24 -0800, "SteveB"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I agree. I have built several sheds and carports....not a few of them
illegally, for my own use G

But all the structural advice will not help if the local authorities
disagree. I just know that I can go the steel people and fall all over
themselves to give me ideas, specs, plans etc, that will meet specs.

Carports are simple with readily available materials. And I DO mean simple.

Steve


************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

If you had bought an 'W' shape beam (I beam) with the same weight
per foot (and same price per pound) you could have had a 10" beam
that was TWICE as strong. Before the last runup in steel I could
buy new A36 grade 10"x15 pound per foot for $.35 per pound =$100
for 20' And the 'W' shape is much less likely to buckle sideways
than a wood steel laminate bean.

TLKALLAM8 wrote:

In the basement of my house I did't want any posts .I bought some .5 inch x 9
inch x 20 feet long flat bar steel .I then bolted it between two 2 x10
joists.Its strong and straight and I can nail to it.Best of all it only cost
around $100.

"Old Nick" wrote

But all the structural advice will not help if the local authorities
disagree. I just know that I can go the steel people and fall all over
themselves to give me ideas, specs, plans etc, that will meet specs.


AND, steel people can steer you to things that are lead pipe simple that
will save a lot of time, and take the worry out of the situation.

None of this, "Will it sag?" stuff. What you will be told is, "This WILL
work."

And if a "local authority" sees a structure made out of commercially
supplied steel rather than a homemade truss or joist setup, they will hardly
give it a second glance. They know it is solid. They MAY require you to go
back and get a permit, so they get their vig, though.

As a side story, I once went through gyrations trying to get the permits to
build a stand alone carport, separated from the house. The rules were very
different from an "attatched" carport. Finally, the zoning and planning guy
said, "Just attach a one inch by 1/8" flatbar from the carport to the house,
and it will pass inspection as an "attatched" carport, and won't need all
this other stuff. Once the inspector signs off, take off the flat bar."

The flat bar was 18' long. The inspector was in and out in five minutes.

When you check permits, ask about an "attatched" carport rather than a free
standing one. Now you know how to attach it.

Steve

Tim Wescott wrote:

"Chuck" wrote in message
I'll be building a carport in the near future. I would like to make my own

I-beam would be better, it would put the most metal where it's stressed the
most.

I-beams are quite unstable side to side and in torsion. They only work
well if there is some form of diaphram or or other additional support to
prevent twisting and/or sideways motion. That's why I usually prefer to
use rectangular tubing.

Ted

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:22:42 -0800, "SteveB"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Hah! Good one. An official with some sense and a sense of humour! G

As a side story, I once went through gyrations trying to get the permits to
build a stand alone carport, separated from the house. The rules were very
different from an "attatched" carport. Finally, the zoning and planning guy
said, "Just attach a one inch by 1/8" flatbar from the carport to the house,
and it will pass inspection as an "attatched" carport, and won't need all
this other stuff. Once the inspector signs off, take off the flat bar."

The flat bar was 18' long. The inspector was in and out in five minutes.

When you check permits, ask about an "attatched" carport rather than a free
standing one. Now you know how to attach it.

Steve


************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?