there is a description of graded scanning for threats by people
carrying protective weapons in another thread on r.c.m.
I cant find the thread to post to so I'll just park this here.

I was sitting thinking about the description of these graded scans
over a cup of coffee.
damned if I havent heard something quite like this just recently.
it was in an australian medical context and related to a diagnosis of
the cause of wierd behaviour in some aboriginal children.

(you'll have to ease off on the 'imposition of wills' harangueing
stuff for a moment. I'm serious about this.)

these kids perceive threats in everything around them. it is almost
impossible to befriend them in the first day of meeting them because
they take a while to size you up. when you observe them you see a kid
in constant motion, constantly scanning and never able to actually sit
peacefully for more than a nano second.

the medical diagnosis, which has been verified, is that these kids
have either retained or have redeveloped a primitive instinct called
the moro reflex. the moro reflex is a natural normal occurrence in
babies, it is the startle reflex which prepares a baby for handling a
threat.
it is normally gone from the child by 18months to be replaced by other
skills which lead on to mature adult coping skills for life.

in kids from violent homes it seems that this reflex helps to keep the
kids safe in the home environment and so is an adaptive response to
the pressures of violence around them.

similar redevelopment of the moro reflex is seen in combat soldiers,
you know, the guys who instantly hit the pavement and roll if a car
backfires in the street nearby. it seems that much of a special
soldier's training is actually redeveloping this moro reflex in
preparation for combat.

once redeveloped it seems that it is quite difficult to lose the moro
reflex again. ( I think that is the case)

when I read the description of the scanning of threats that was in the
ccw post, damned if it doesnt seem like a moro reflex description.

life must be hell for guys who have redeveloped this reflex. there can
be no peace for them. even in isolated idyllic surrounds where there
are no threats they will never be able to stop the constant scanning
or appreciate the peace and quiet. they have my sympathies.

(btw if you dont believe any of this you arent alone. I was failed off
a degree in nursing because the instructors thought it preposterous.
pity they arent up to speed with recent understandings in medicine.
some serious medical types are behind the diagnosis)
Stealth (seen it for myself) pilot

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:40:18 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:

when I read the description of the scanning of threats that was in the
ccw post, damned if it doesnt seem like a moro reflex description.

News flash: there are bad people in the world. Being alert to that
fact is hardly a medical defect.

life must be hell for guys who have redeveloped this reflex. there can
be no peace for them. even in isolated idyllic surrounds where there
are no threats they will never be able to stop the constant scanning
or appreciate the peace and quiet. they have my sympathies.

My goodness, you're arrogant _and_ condescending, all at the same time.
What a combination.

(btw if you dont believe any of this you arent alone. I was failed off
a degree in nursing because the instructors thought it preposterous.

There could be other reasons you failed. I have a theory.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:40:18 +0800, Stealth Pilot
wrote:


there is a description of graded scanning for threats by people
carrying protective weapons in another thread on r.c.m.
I cant find the thread to post to so I'll just park this here.

I was sitting thinking about the description of these graded scans
over a cup of coffee.
damned if I havent heard something quite like this just recently.
it was in an australian medical context and related to a diagnosis of
the cause of wierd behaviour in some aboriginal children.

(you'll have to ease off on the 'imposition of wills' harangueing
stuff for a moment. I'm serious about this.)

these kids perceive threats in everything around them. it is almost
impossible to befriend them in the first day of meeting them because
they take a while to size you up. when you observe them you see a kid
in constant motion, constantly scanning and never able to actually sit
peacefully for more than a nano second.

the medical diagnosis, which has been verified, is that these kids
have either retained or have redeveloped a primitive instinct called
the moro reflex. the moro reflex is a natural normal occurrence in
babies, it is the startle reflex which prepares a baby for handling a
threat.
it is normally gone from the child by 18months to be replaced by other
skills which lead on to mature adult coping skills for life.

in kids from violent homes it seems that this reflex helps to keep the
kids safe in the home environment and so is an adaptive response to
the pressures of violence around them.

similar redevelopment of the moro reflex is seen in combat soldiers,
you know, the guys who instantly hit the pavement and roll if a car
backfires in the street nearby. it seems that much of a special
soldier's training is actually redeveloping this moro reflex in
preparation for combat.

once redeveloped it seems that it is quite difficult to lose the moro
reflex again. ( I think that is the case)

when I read the description of the scanning of threats that was in the
ccw post, damned if it doesnt seem like a moro reflex description.

life must be hell for guys who have redeveloped this reflex. there can
be no peace for them. even in isolated idyllic surrounds where there
are no threats they will never be able to stop the constant scanning
or appreciate the peace and quiet. they have my sympathies.

(btw if you dont believe any of this you arent alone. I was failed off
a degree in nursing because the instructors thought it preposterous.
pity they arent up to speed with recent understandings in medicine.
some serious medical types are behind the diagnosis)
Stealth (seen it for myself) pilot

Actually..most of us who have "redeveloped the Moro Reflex" or what
have you ..are rather peaceful. While we know we dont control our
environment..we get visual and other cues that tell us whats going on
around us..and we can relax with some confidence that not only are we
not going to be surprised..but will have enough warning to take
whatever steps necessary to deal with a developing situation..such as
flight or fight. Im rather partial to flight myself..and will cross
the street to avoid something that gives me a "bad feeling" or
ratchets me up to Orange.

And yes..combat soldiers Can have this. From experience..Ive found
that some never developed this ability. Most are dead.

I consider it to be a gift, rather than any sort of curse. Like
walking around on a clear sunny day after a good rain..things tend to
be clearer, sharper and well defined. Rather than walking around in a
fog for most of ones life. And the actual talent...is taught to the
backbrain..so seldom is even done conciously after a period of time.
Practicioners seldom even notice that they are doing it. Like a
mechanic who suddenly cues on an odd noise in a running machine. He
has trained himself to listen subconsiously for "odd noises" as he
goes about his business..and the ol back brain cues on the
anomoly..and brings it to his attention. As a driver or pilot..Im sure
you have suddenly cued on a change in your vehicle..that no one else
noticed? Were you consiously listening/feeling for such? No..you were
busy doing other things.

The human brain is a fascinating object in its complexity and ability
to multi task. However..if you never program this particular Mental
Macro, and let it run in the background...shrug..lets hope you never
get a really nasty surprise when its far to late for flight, as the
wheels fall off the trolly.

Id hope you drive in the same fashion..using the Color codes.

There is a reason those children were born with that talent..and there
is a reason they may lose it as they get older. The first is that
its a survival trait..the second is called complacency or having
programmed the back brain well enough that its running the macro in
the background.

Btw..there is no ongoing battle of wills here..to suggest otherwise is
buffoonery. Its a discussion about cultures, facing ones personal
reality visa vis where they live and how to grow old enough to be a
bother to ones great grand children.

An interesting world view...that one may subscribe to, that has much
valitity:

"Be kind, be polite, be courtious, and be prepared to kill/run from
everyone you meet"..

while on the surface sounds bizzare..particularly those who exist in a
state of blind bliss..but it has serious real world survival value,
more so in some locales that in others. Those that are unable to
fathom this..are called in some quarters..Bliss Ninnies. Or the
Dead. Shrug.

"Be kind, be polite, be courtious and be prepared to dodge rapidly
from everyone you meet" is what you use when driving..right?

I wonder..did all those folks at Port Arthur also go through life as
bliss ninnies?..short as their life was?

I find it fascinating that one individual with a lowly .22 could have
stopped that tragedy cold.

Paranoia..gun induced. I guess thats where there are so many shooting
sprees at gun shows, hunting camps and police headquarters, eh?

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:37:13 GMT, Gunner wrote:

Actually..most of us who have "redeveloped the Moro Reflex" or what
have you ..are rather peaceful. While we know we dont control our
environment..we get visual and other cues that tell us whats going on
around us..and we can relax with some confidence that not only are we
not going to be surprised..

Great writeup, but...pearls before swine.

Didja get my email?

On 30 Mar 2006 19:16:47 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:37:13 GMT, Gunner wrote:

Actually..most of us who have "redeveloped the Moro Reflex" or what
have you ..are rather peaceful. While we know we dont control our
environment..we get visual and other cues that tell us whats going on
around us..and we can relax with some confidence that not only are we
not going to be surprised..

Great writeup, but...pearls before swine.

Didja get my email?


With the pics? Indeed. Answered on the Priest threat...Father

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

"Gunner" wrote...
[ snip ]
There is a reason those children were born with that talent..and there
is a reason they may lose it as they get older. The first is that
its a survival trait..the second is called complacency or having
programmed the back brain well enough that its running the macro in
the background.

Btw..there is no ongoing battle of wills here..to suggest otherwise is
buffoonery. Its a discussion about cultures, facing ones personal
reality visa vis where they live and how to grow old enough to be a
bother to ones great grand children.

An interesting world view...that one may subscribe to, that has much
valitity:

"Be kind, be polite, be courtious, and be prepared to kill/run from
everyone you meet"..

while on the surface sounds bizzare..particularly those who exist in a
state of blind bliss..but it has serious real world survival value,
more so in some locales that in others. Those that are unable to
fathom this..are called in some quarters..Bliss Ninnies. Or the
Dead. Shrug.

"Be kind, be polite, be courtious and be prepared to dodge rapidly
from everyone you meet" is what you use when driving..right?

I wonder..did all those folks at Port Arthur also go through life as
bliss ninnies?..short as their life was?

I find it fascinating that one individual with a lowly .22 could have
stopped that tragedy cold.

Likewise Columbine High School.... Likewise the "day trader" incident in
Atlanta.... Likewise....

Paranoia..gun induced. I guess thats where there are so many shooting
sprees at gun shows, hunting camps and police headquarters, eh?

None are so blind as those who WILL NOT see.

-jc-

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:48:02 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "John
Chase" quickly quoth:

"Gunner" wrote...
[ snip ]
I find it fascinating that one individual with a lowly .22 could have
stopped that tragedy cold.

Likewise Columbine High School.... Likewise the "day trader" incident in
Atlanta.... Likewise....

I read somewhere (and wish I could recall where) that one teacher at
Columbine HAD a pistol but was prevented from carrying on campus. See
what it cost the school system and the parents? Ditto the Sheriff's
handling of the situation:
http://www.newswithviews.com/Pratt/larry.htm

Good commentary:
http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel030901.shtml


Paranoia..gun induced. I guess thats where there are so many shooting
sprees at gun shows, hunting camps and police headquarters, eh?

None are so blind as those who WILL NOT see.

Not until after they're mugged and find they have no defense against
it, and none of their friends has any defense because they, too, chose
against it. That's one helluva wakeup call, huh?

If only we could get the blind to read/hear this and related articles:
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvscho.html


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Stealth Pilot wrote:

life must be hell for guys who have redeveloped this reflex. there can
be no peace for them. even in isolated idyllic surrounds where there
are no threats they will never be able to stop the constant scanning
or appreciate the peace and quiet. they have my sympathies.


Hell is being a victim. A powerless one. Your misconceptions in your
premiss is laughable. You have no clue.


I carry a spare tire. Three cars now, never used a spare. I'm not in
fear of a flat. I can deal with one if it happens.

I'm not in fear of my life. If a threat occurs, I can deal with it
also.

Wes S