I'm in the midst of an overhaul of my small home shop (20'x32' detached)
and among the items on the agenda is some fixed air line.

The question is - Black pipe or soldered copper. Black pipe is rather a
pain to work with, heavy and fairly expensive, while type L copper is
much easier to work with and I think actually a bit cheaper overall not
to mention the typical HD / Lowe's black pipe fittings are crap. I think
the nice smooth bore of 1/2" copper will give better air flow rates vs.
1/2" black pipe as well.

I've heard it noted that for copper air lines you should use "hard"
solder. Since all the normal plumbing solder these days is lead-free
silver bearing I'm thinking this qualifies as "hard" solder.

I expect I'll be running the air through one of the cheap HF
refrigerated air dryers in addition to the usual filters to help keep
the new plasma cutter happy. In addition to the plasma cutter, the air
will be serving the air/hyd 20T press, blowguns at the lathe and mill,
and the usual assortment of impact wrench / hammer / nailer / tire
inflator.

Thoughts / suggestions?

Thanks,

Pete C.

Pete C. wrote:
I'm in the midst of an overhaul of my small home shop (20'x32' detached)
and among the items on the agenda is some fixed air line.

The question is - Black pipe or soldered copper. Black pipe is rather a
pain to work with, heavy and fairly expensive, while type L copper is
much easier to work with and I think actually a bit cheaper overall not
to mention the typical HD / Lowe's black pipe fittings are crap. I think
the nice smooth bore of 1/2" copper will give better air flow rates vs.
1/2" black pipe as well.

I've heard it noted that for copper air lines you should use "hard"
solder. Since all the normal plumbing solder these days is lead-free
silver bearing I'm thinking this qualifies as "hard" solder.

I expect I'll be running the air through one of the cheap HF
refrigerated air dryers in addition to the usual filters to help keep
the new plasma cutter happy. In addition to the plasma cutter, the air
will be serving the air/hyd 20T press, blowguns at the lathe and mill,
and the usual assortment of impact wrench / hammer / nailer / tire
inflator.

Thoughts / suggestions?

Thanks,

Pete C.
In talking to our local plumbing supplier about that very subject....
Black copper or PVC is fine.
I went with PVC. easiest to work with and cheapest.
Michelle

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:16:05 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Michelle quickly quoth:

In talking to our local plumbing supplier about that very subject....
Black copper or PVC is fine.
I went with PVC. easiest to work with and cheapest.

Michelle, I worked with PVC air lines for years and nobody got shards
imbedded in their eyes (skulls, or anything else) BUT, PVC isn't rated
for air pressures and can explode. I no longer recommend its use after
reading the official stance. OSHA has _kittens_ upon its mention in
that usage.

http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

I now recommend black pipe or copper tubing or air, though there are
some plastics now used in air lines: Nylon, polyurethane, and ABS.

http://www.cbs.state.or.us/osha/interps/1989/im-89-06(rr).pdf
http://www.newageindustries.com/sprthncl.asp
http://www.colexint.com/pneumn.htm


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Heart Attacks: God's revenge for eating his little animal friends
-- http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development --

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:16:05 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Michelle quickly quoth:

In talking to our local plumbing supplier about that very subject....
Black copper or PVC is fine.
I went with PVC. easiest to work with and cheapest.

Michelle, I worked with PVC air lines for years and nobody got shards
imbedded in their eyes (skulls, or anything else) BUT, PVC isn't rated
for air pressures and can explode. I no longer recommend its use after
reading the official stance. OSHA has _kittens_ upon its mention in
that usage.

http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

I now recommend black pipe or copper tubing or air, though there are
some plastics now used in air lines: Nylon, polyurethane, and ABS.

http://www.cbs.state.or.us/osha/interps/1989/im-89-06(rr).pdf
http://www.newageindustries.com/sprthncl.asp
http://www.colexint.com/pneumn.htm

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Heart Attacks: God's revenge for eating his little animal friends
-- http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development --

That brings up an interesting possibility, how about the PEX tubing that
is pretty cheap and easy to crimp together? I would imagine that unlike
PVC the failure mode if it were to fail would be a startling but
harmless split and air release with no flying shards.

Pete C.

Looks to me like you could easily run a shield over the PVC air lines to
deflect any shards that might 'happen'. 1x6 pine boards, or C-purlin.
The drops and joints could be left unshielded as any break would likely
be in the runs. Also, I understand embrittlement of PVC is largely due
to UV. So as long as it wasn't exposed to sunlight or welding arc, the
odds are pretty good that it will last indefinitely.
Flex line from compressor to PVC to isolate vibration. larger
diameter PVC would effectively increase the volume of your air reservoir.
I'd consider adding a metal radiator to cool the compressed air and
remove water, close to the compressor. The PVC would not transfer heat
as well so you'd stand a higher chance of getting warm moist air to the
outlets without some sort of condenser.

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:16:05 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Michelle quickly quoth:

In talking to our local plumbing supplier about that very subject....
Black copper or PVC is fine.
I went with PVC. easiest to work with and cheapest.

Michelle, I worked with PVC air lines for years and nobody got shards
imbedded in their eyes (skulls, or anything else) BUT, PVC isn't rated
for air pressures and can explode. I no longer recommend its use after
reading the official stance. OSHA has _kittens_ upon its mention in
that usage.

http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

I now recommend black pipe or copper tubing or air, though there are
some plastics now used in air lines: Nylon, polyurethane, and ABS.

http://www.cbs.state.or.us/osha/interps/1989/im-89-06(rr).pdf
http://www.newageindustries.com/sprthncl.asp
http://www.colexint.com/pneumn.htm


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Heart Attacks: God's revenge for eating his little animal friends
-- http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development --

As others mentioned, OSHA inspectors will have a hissy fit if they see
PVC air lines. I think the issue is oil in the lines combined with
vibration. Plus PVC does not have a graceful failure mode.

My home shop has 1/2" copper, the labs at work are plumbed with 1/2" to
1" copper (depending on where in the system it is). Black pipe is the
preferred material. Once consideration for copper is to make sure the
termianations are not subject to vibration. Copper will work harden and
eventually crack.

Michelle wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

I'm in the midst of an overhaul of my small home shop (20'x32' detached)
and among the items on the agenda is some fixed air line.
The question is - Black pipe or soldered copper. Black pipe is rather a
pain to work with, heavy and fairly expensive, while type L copper is
much easier to work with and I think actually a bit cheaper overall not
to mention the typical HD / Lowe's black pipe fittings are crap. I think
the nice smooth bore of 1/2" copper will give better air flow rates vs.
1/2" black pipe as well.

I've heard it noted that for copper air lines you should use "hard"
solder. Since all the normal plumbing solder these days is lead-free
silver bearing I'm thinking this qualifies as "hard" solder.
I expect I'll be running the air through one of the cheap HF
refrigerated air dryers in addition to the usual filters to help keep
the new plasma cutter happy. In addition to the plasma cutter, the air
will be serving the air/hyd 20T press, blowguns at the lathe and mill,
and the usual assortment of impact wrench / hammer / nailer / tire
inflator.

Thoughts / suggestions?

Thanks,

Pete C.

In talking to our local plumbing supplier about that very subject....
Black copper or PVC is fine.
I went with PVC. easiest to work with and cheapest.
Michelle

On the day of Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:38:03 GMT...
"Pete C."
typed these letters:

I'm in the midst of an overhaul of my small home shop (20'x32' detached)
and among the items on the agenda is some fixed air line.

The question is - Black pipe or soldered copper. Black pipe is rather a
pain to work with, heavy and fairly expensive, while type L copper is
much easier to work with and I think actually a bit cheaper overall not
to mention the typical HD / Lowe's black pipe fittings are crap. I think
the nice smooth bore of 1/2" copper will give better air flow rates vs.
1/2" black pipe as well.

I've heard it noted that for copper air lines you should use "hard"
solder. Since all the normal plumbing solder these days is lead-free
silver bearing I'm thinking this qualifies as "hard" solder.

I expect I'll be running the air through one of the cheap HF
refrigerated air dryers in addition to the usual filters to help keep
the new plasma cutter happy. In addition to the plasma cutter, the air
will be serving the air/hyd 20T press, blowguns at the lathe and mill,
and the usual assortment of impact wrench / hammer / nailer / tire
inflator.

Thoughts / suggestions?

Thanks,

Pete C.


If you want something easy to work with... Why not just run an
appropriate sized air hose rated for the pressures you need. Maybe
something like tygon that will even work with push lock connectors.
It doesn't get much easier that that. You may want to clamp it down
some way to avoid it going wild if it ever does come loose.

The company I used to work for used probably miles of tygon type air
lines. They also had some galvanized pipe/rigid conduit. But without
a pipe threader pipe can be a pain. They did have some stainless
steel pipe for air lines connected with compression fittings. I seen
a couple of them compression fittings blow apart though.

Devonshire

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:34:23 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:16:05 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Michelle quickly quoth:

In talking to our local plumbing supplier about that very subject....
Black copper or PVC is fine.
I went with PVC. easiest to work with and cheapest.

Michelle, I worked with PVC air lines for years and nobody got shards
imbedded in their eyes (skulls, or anything else) BUT, PVC isn't rated
for air pressures and can explode. I no longer recommend its use after
reading the official stance. OSHA has _kittens_ upon its mention in
that usage.

http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

I now recommend black pipe or copper tubing or air, though there are
some plastics now used in air lines: Nylon, polyurethane, and ABS.

http://www.cbs.state.or.us/osha/interps/1989/im-89-06(rr).pdf
http://www.newageindustries.com/sprthncl.asp
http://www.colexint.com/pneumn.htm


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Heart Attacks: God's revenge for eating his little animal friends
-- http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development --
Greetings Larry,
I worked in a shop that had all PVC airlines. These were mounted about
8 feet from the floor just because it was easiest. These airlines
started to blow up about about 15 years after being installed. When
they did blow shards were imbedded in plywood about 6 feet away.
Nevertheless, I have installed PVC in my shop. It is 8 feet up and
behind OSB sheets. Again, just because it was easiest. However, it
will all eventually be replaced with something safer. Already some has
blown and it is only about 7 years old.
ERS

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:38:03 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

I'm in the midst of an overhaul of my small home shop (20'x32' detached)
and among the items on the agenda is some fixed air line.

The question is - Black pipe or soldered copper. Black pipe is rather a
pain to work with, heavy and fairly expensive, while type L copper is
much easier to work with and I think actually a bit cheaper overall not
to mention the typical HD / Lowe's black pipe fittings are crap. I think
the nice smooth bore of 1/2" copper will give better air flow rates vs.
1/2" black pipe as well.

I've heard it noted that for copper air lines you should use "hard"
solder. Since all the normal plumbing solder these days is lead-free
silver bearing I'm thinking this qualifies as "hard" solder.

I expect I'll be running the air through one of the cheap HF
refrigerated air dryers in addition to the usual filters to help keep
the new plasma cutter happy. In addition to the plasma cutter, the air
will be serving the air/hyd 20T press, blowguns at the lathe and mill,
and the usual assortment of impact wrench / hammer / nailer / tire
inflator.

Thoughts / suggestions?

Thanks,

Pete C.

As a guy who does shop maint for a living..and has done both..Id have
to vote for copper. Solder is solder for the most part. Ive used both
and have yet to see anything come un****ed up to 200lbs

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:34:23 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:16:05 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Michelle quickly quoth:

In talking to our local plumbing supplier about that very subject....
Black copper or PVC is fine.
I went with PVC. easiest to work with and cheapest.

Michelle, I worked with PVC air lines for years and nobody got shards
imbedded in their eyes (skulls, or anything else) BUT, PVC isn't rated
for air pressures and can explode. I no longer recommend its use after
reading the official stance. OSHA has _kittens_ upon its mention in
that usage.

And yes..I does Indeed explode. Ill see if I can dig up the photos I
took of All Diameter Grinding in Anaheim California..where a PVC
airline, run above the flourescent lights, broke in one part of the
building, cascaded as the shock traveled..broke in about 40 places and
took out a number of flourescent tubes at the same time, adding to the
shrapnel in the air.

It was truely duck and cover time in there.....

http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

I now recommend black pipe or copper tubing or air, though there are
some plastics now used in air lines: Nylon, polyurethane, and ABS.

http://www.cbs.state.or.us/osha/interps/1989/im-89-06(rr).pdf
http://www.newageindustries.com/sprthncl.asp
http://www.colexint.com/pneumn.htm


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Heart Attacks: God's revenge for eating his little animal friends
-- http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development --



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:21:12 -0600, Rex B
wrote:

Looks to me like you could easily run a shield over the PVC air lines to
deflect any shards that might 'happen'. 1x6 pine boards, or C-purlin.
The drops and joints could be left unshielded as any break would likely
be in the runs. Also, I understand embrittlement of PVC is largely due
to UV. So as long as it wasn't exposed to sunlight or welding arc, the
odds are pretty good that it will last indefinitely.

Not true. Much of the degredation comes from compressor oil inside,
and heat. UV may also be responsible..but not inside shops with it
run over head. Ive had 3/4" pvc simply break in my hand like a grahm
cracker.


Flex line from compressor to PVC to isolate vibration. larger
diameter PVC would effectively increase the volume of your air reservoir.
I'd consider adding a metal radiator to cool the compressed air and
remove water, close to the compressor. The PVC would not transfer heat
as well so you'd stand a higher chance of getting warm moist air to the
outlets without some sort of condenser.

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:16:05 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Michelle quickly quoth:

In talking to our local plumbing supplier about that very subject....
Black copper or PVC is fine.
I went with PVC. easiest to work with and cheapest.

Michelle, I worked with PVC air lines for years and nobody got shards
imbedded in their eyes (skulls, or anything else) BUT, PVC isn't rated
for air pressures and can explode. I no longer recommend its use after
reading the official stance. OSHA has _kittens_ upon its mention in
that usage.

http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

I now recommend black pipe or copper tubing or air, though there are
some plastics now used in air lines: Nylon, polyurethane, and ABS.

http://www.cbs.state.or.us/osha/interps/1989/im-89-06(rr).pdf
http://www.newageindustries.com/sprthncl.asp
http://www.colexint.com/pneumn.htm


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Heart Attacks: God's revenge for eating his little animal friends
-- http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development --



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

....
The question is - Black pipe or soldered copper. Black pipe is rather a
pain to work with, heavy and fairly expensive, while type L copper is
much easier to work with and I think actually a bit cheaper overall not
to mention the typical HD / Lowe's black pipe fittings are crap. I think
the nice smooth bore of 1/2" copper will give better air flow rates vs.
1/2" black pipe as well.

I've heard it noted that for copper air lines you should use "hard"
solder. Since all the normal plumbing solder these days is lead-free
silver bearing I'm thinking this qualifies as "hard" solder.

I used 1/2" rigid copper in my shop. Its easy to install. One big plus is
being able to add another drop where you need it later. Just cut it with a
tubing cutter and solder in a Tee. FWIW, I just used standard plumbers
solder.

I put all the lines at the ceiling with pig tails of air hose line down
wherever its needed.

Karl

Devonshire wrote:
The company I used to work for used probably miles of tygon type air
lines. They also had some galvanized pipe/rigid conduit.

Looks to me like conduit would be about the cheapest thing available if
you could make air-tight connections reliably.

In article , says...


That brings up an interesting possibility, how about the PEX tubing that
is pretty cheap and easy to crimp together? I would imagine that unlike
PVC the failure mode if it were to fail would be a startling but
harmless split and air release with no flying shards.


I've wondered about that myself. The tubing is very similar to the
polyethylene tubing (Polyflo is one tradename) used in industrial
automation and instrumentation. The biggest drawback that occurs to me
is supporting runs of the tubing straight enough to prevent low spots
that will collect water.

Regarding copper, it's what I used and probably would again. I haven't
seen anything that's convinced me that there's any reason to favor hard
solder over plain old lead-tin for air lines at normal shop pressure. I
installed mine in a loop around the perimeter of the shop near the
ceiling. Each hose drop is plumbed with a tee with the branch headed up,
a sweat x sweat ell, then a sweat x NPT ell with the NPT end pointed
down. This seems to work well to keep most liquid water out of the drops
and the hoses hang close to the wall when not in use.

Ned Simmons

Karl Townsend wrote:

...
The question is - Black pipe or soldered copper. Black pipe is rather a
pain to work with, heavy and fairly expensive, while type L copper is
much easier to work with and I think actually a bit cheaper overall not
to mention the typical HD / Lowe's black pipe fittings are crap. I think
the nice smooth bore of 1/2" copper will give better air flow rates vs.
1/2" black pipe as well.

I've heard it noted that for copper air lines you should use "hard"
solder. Since all the normal plumbing solder these days is lead-free
silver bearing I'm thinking this qualifies as "hard" solder.

I used 1/2" rigid copper in my shop. Its easy to install. One big plus is
being able to add another drop where you need it later. Just cut it with a
tubing cutter and solder in a Tee. FWIW, I just used standard plumbers
solder.

I put all the lines at the ceiling with pig tails of air hose line down
wherever its needed.

Karl

I'll be hanging the air line along with the EMT conduit for the various
power drops from sections of Unistrut mounted at the stud locations at
the top 12" of the wall. Should be neat, easy to add to or change, and
allow tighter spacing of the horizontal runs than regular one hole
straps allows.

Pete C.

On the day of Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:59:47 -0600...
Rex B
typed these letters:


Devonshire wrote:
The company I used to work for used probably miles of tygon type air
lines. They also had some galvanized pipe/rigid conduit.

Looks to me like conduit would be about the cheapest thing available if
you could make air-tight connections reliably.


I've gotton rigid conduit for free from electrical contractors that
worked in industry. It would have to be rigid conduit, thin wall
would never work. The only difference I saw between the rigid
conduit and galvanized pipe that we had was the pipe had a pressure
rating of 300psi and the conduit had no pressure rating. If the
conduit is threaded. the ends will have to be chopped off and
rethreaded on a pipe threading machine. Conduit threads aren't
tapered like pipe threads. It's dificult to get them to seal off.
Conduit also makes great cheap tomato steaks. You need to take a side
grinder and cut at nitch in it every so often the catch the twine so
the plant doesn't slide down the pole.

I still think the flexable air line/tygon tubing would be the easiest
route. Rigid piping is ok as long as you never plan to move anything.

Devonshire

"I expect I'll be running the air through one of the cheap HF
refrigerated air dryers in addition to the usual filters to help keep
the new plasma cutter happy."

What do you think of the HF air dryer?

TMT

On the day of Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:25:30 GMT...
Gunner
typed these letters:

Not true. Much of the degredation comes from compressor oil inside,
and heat. UV may also be responsible..but not inside shops with it
run over head. Ive had 3/4" pvc simply break in my hand like a grahm
cracker.


I've seen outdoor grade "Sunlight Resistant" PVC crumble like a graham
cracker after less than 10 years exposure to the outdoors. It was
used as conduit from the ground to an electrical box.

Devonshire

I worked in a shop that was partial plumbed with iron pipe sorta like a
manifold and branches of pvc schedule forty. We had one break on a cold
day at about 150 psi. It is deafening. and bits of the pvc shrapnel went
every where.
Use flex hoses or do the whole shop with steel or copper

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:37:52 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, Eric
R Snow quickly quoth:

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:34:23 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:16:05 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Michelle quickly quoth:

In talking to our local plumbing supplier about that very subject....
Black copper or PVC is fine.
I went with PVC. easiest to work with and cheapest.

Michelle, I worked with PVC air lines for years and nobody got shards
imbedded in their eyes (skulls, or anything else) BUT, PVC isn't rated
for air pressures and can explode. I no longer recommend its use after
reading the official stance. OSHA has _kittens_ upon its mention in
that usage.

Greetings Larry,

Howdy, Eric.


I worked in a shop that had all PVC airlines. These were mounted about
8 feet from the floor just because it was easiest. These airlines
started to blow up about about 15 years after being installed. When
they did blow shards were imbedded in plywood about 6 feet away.
Nevertheless, I have installed PVC in my shop. It is 8 feet up and
behind OSB sheets. Again, just because it was easiest. However, it
will all eventually be replaced with something safer. Already some has
blown and it is only about 7 years old.

Ours was at breast height, 1.5", and we worked with it for 4 years
before I switched careers due to back problems. The body men would
back out and catch air lines on bumper brackets, ripping the
connectors off the pipes and breaking pipes. Nobody ever got hit by
shards and it happened every 4-6 months. I guess they were lucky.

I"m replacing my installation of PVC pipe for the landscaping water
now after an ice-damaged old galv nipple went. What I hadn't seen
until I replaced the galv pieces was that a PVC ball valve had also
split. I'm replacing all PVC I put outside with galv now, and I'm
going to replace the valves at the well pump while I'm at it. Then I'm
going to foam some insulation around the exposed piping to limit its
exposure to freezing temps. I remember seeing that Porsche in the
guy's mountain cabin's garage with the water pipe above it. Can you
say "OOPS!" and "OUCH!"? I knew you could. g Wasn't this one of
you Metalheads, or was it someone from the Wreck?
http://p-car.com/potm/frozen.jpg


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Heart Attacks: God's revenge for eating his little animal friends
-- http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development --

snip

If I was doing it, I would use copper.

And I would use those retractable hose reels in addition to stationary quick
connects.

Just me.

Steve

In article ,
Ignoramus4546 wrote:

I thought that PVC was a big no no. It supposedly becomes brittle with
age and when it fails, everything flies apart, making dangerous
shrapnel.

Been there, done that. Blew up, hurt like a mother****er. My
fancy-schmancy Carhartt pants got torn up, but saved my future
children's lives.
FWIW, I didn't put in the line or know that it was even pressurized.
But I did happen to bonk it with a shovel, causing the failure. It had
been buried, so no UV exposure. Maybe got brittle from thermal cycling
or repeated stressing from pressurizing.
Either way, I avoid the **** now.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Karl Townsend wrote:

...
The question is - Black pipe or soldered copper. Black pipe is rather a
pain to work with, heavy and fairly expensive, while type L copper is
much easier to work with
snip

Pete C.

I used black iron pipe (mix of 2" & 1") because I had some and was able to
scrounge the rest. I made up the near compressor piping and the long runs
with it. It took some time but was worth it. I have a ratchet threader and
tristand and spent about 4 hrs cutting and threading & several more hanging
& wrench turning. At the drops I used some K type copper. I like the BI pipe
.....done once done right kind of thing.. also easier to scrounge BI pipe
then copper. I think the cold pipe really helps remove water to. As far as a
dryer goes I run a hypertherm 350 in my plasma cam and use a desiccant type
filter it works well... better cuts & tip life ect. worth the cost. check
http://www.tptools.com/statictext/ai...ng-diagram.pdf for suggestions.
I think PVC use has been covered well in other replies.

enjoy

Andrew

AndrewV wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message
...

Karl Townsend wrote:

...

The question is - Black pipe or soldered copper. Black pipe is rather a
pain to work with, heavy and fairly expensive, while type L copper is
much easier to work with

snip

Did iron in the last shop, pia and leaky[I know shudup]

copper in this one, 3/4 sloped to compressor, 1/2 drops with a ball
valve at every junction. 160 feet of 3/4 and maybe 60 feet of half, tees
l's and whatnot, what could it have cost? Don't remember, will last
longer than me

I bought a hf ref dryer ~2 years ago and it works great.

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:33:04 GMT,
(Devonshire) wrote:



If you want something easy to work with... Why not just run an
appropriate sized air hose rated for the pressures you need. Maybe
something like tygon that will even work with push lock connectors.
It doesn't get much easier that that. You may want to clamp it down
some way to avoid it going wild if it ever does come loose.

The company I used to work for used probably miles of tygon type air
lines. They also had some galvanized pipe/rigid conduit. But without
a pipe threader pipe can be a pain. They did have some stainless
steel pipe for air lines connected with compression fittings. I seen
a couple of them compression fittings blow apart though.

Devonshire

I used 1/2" air hose. Ran it in the C purlin at the 12' level with
drops to 4'. I put an unrefrigerated condenser between the tank and
the service line.

I put some Boston air hose on a service truck in 1983. It is still in
service after outlasting many trucks. This is on a reel unprotected
from the sun or elements.

"un****ed"......................around these parts we call it transgender.


As a guy who does shop maint for a living..and has done both..Id have
to vote for copper. Solder is solder for the most part. Ive used both
and have yet to see anything come un****ed up to 200lbs

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

"I expect I'll be running the air through one of the cheap HF
refrigerated air dryers in addition to the usual filters to help keep
the new plasma cutter happy."

What do you think of the HF air dryer?

TMT

Haven't got it yet. Looked at it in the store and it looks perfectly
good. Have heard from several people using them with plasma cutters and
heard only good reports. On sale now for $299 - 20% coupon and no
shipping by getting it at the local HF, kinda hard to beat.

Pete C.

Just as a point to ponder, several years ago we had some major
discussions on the usage of PVC. Being the son of a retired registered
metalurgical engineer, who's area of expertise is refinery vessels and
pipeline design and failure analysys, I have had easy access to the
design codes since I was able to read. To dad's way of thinking,
anything under 1" thick was light material.
I took the codes out for pressurized piping for compressible fluids and
gases and ran the design and safety numbers using the data for PVC. By
the time that you apply all the design information and make the
appropriate derates, PVC comes out having a safe working pressure,
using air, of only 4 psi, at 70 deg F. Yes, that is correct, by code
you can only allow the pressure of a compressible fluid in PVC that is
certified to ASTM 1789 (?) standards get up to a maximum of 4 psi.

When I posted that info along with the industry spec numbers, some of
the most ardent defenders of the usage of PVC began to have some
enlightenment about the problems of using it in an air system. I hope
that anyone that is really contemplating the use of PVC or CPVC goes
back and reads through those old posts and then takes the time to run
the numbers through the latest version of the applicable codes prior to
installing any.

One thing I would definitely recommend if you have a fixed
compressor/pipe setup is a small portable air tank. It isn't a big
deal when you can haul the compressor to the jobsite but once you make
everything permanent, it becomes a big PITA, even if the compressor is
designed to be permanent. I use ones made out of modified propane
cylinders for forklifts. They have a small length of coiled tubing
attached and can be hauled wherever needed.

woodworker88 wrote:
One thing I would definitely recommend if you have a fixed
compressor/pipe setup is a small portable air tank.

Depends on where you live. Portable air tanks are illegal in NJ

State laws regarding pressure air tank manufacturing prohibit the sale
of tanks in New Jersey and Puerto Rico.

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:38:03 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

I'm in the midst of an overhaul of my small home shop (20'x32' detached)
and among the items on the agenda is some fixed air line.

The question is - Black pipe or soldered copper. Black pipe is rather a
pain to work with, heavy and fairly expensive, while type L copper is
much easier to work with and I think actually a bit cheaper overall not
to mention the typical HD / Lowe's black pipe fittings are crap. I think
the nice smooth bore of 1/2" copper will give better air flow rates vs.
1/2" black pipe as well.

I've heard it noted that for copper air lines you should use "hard"
solder. Since all the normal plumbing solder these days is lead-free
silver bearing I'm thinking this qualifies as "hard" solder.

I use heavy L Copper and silver-brazed connections. That means
there's no reasonable way that a plumber thinks it's a water line when
they see the silver-braze. Unless he's an utter moron, and I try to
keep them off the property at all costs.

Black pipe is second - but it could get confused with natural gas.

Do Not Use Regular PVC For Shop Air! It shatters and can kill.

They make a special (green?) CPVC pipe that is rated for air
service, but it's expensive as hell and meant for use plumbing air
lines in chemical plants where they can't use steel.

If you must use plastics for branch lines and equipment internal
connections, polyethylene tubing up to 3/8" is acceptable. But make
the main line Copper or Black Pipe.

I expect I'll be running the air through one of the cheap HF
refrigerated air dryers in addition to the usual filters to help keep
the new plasma cutter happy. In addition to the plasma cutter, the air
will be serving the air/hyd 20T press, blowguns at the lathe and mill,
and the usual assortment of impact wrench / hammer / nailer / tire
inflator.

I inspected that air dryer, and it looks reasonably well made. It's
on sale? Cool, gotta get over there.

New Harbor Fright 2 miles away, no more Road Trips to Camarillo.

Now if someone will come up with a reasonably priced Nitrogen
Generator for filling tires...
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:38:03 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

I'm in the midst of an overhaul of my small home shop (20'x32' detached)
and among the items on the agenda is some fixed air line.

The question is - Black pipe or soldered copper. Black pipe is rather a
pain to work with, heavy and fairly expensive, while type L copper is
much easier to work with and I think actually a bit cheaper overall not
to mention the typical HD / Lowe's black pipe fittings are crap. I think
the nice smooth bore of 1/2" copper will give better air flow rates vs.
1/2" black pipe as well.

I've heard it noted that for copper air lines you should use "hard"
solder. Since all the normal plumbing solder these days is lead-free
silver bearing I'm thinking this qualifies as "hard" solder.

I use heavy L Copper and silver-brazed connections. That means
there's no reasonable way that a plumber thinks it's a water line when
they see the silver-braze. Unless he's an utter moron, and I try to
keep them off the property at all costs.

Black pipe is second - but it could get confused with natural gas.

Do Not Use Regular PVC For Shop Air! It shatters and can kill.

They make a special (green?) CPVC pipe that is rated for air
service, but it's expensive as hell and meant for use plumbing air
lines in chemical plants where they can't use steel.

If you must use plastics for branch lines and equipment internal
connections, polyethylene tubing up to 3/8" is acceptable. But make
the main line Copper or Black Pipe.

I expect I'll be running the air through one of the cheap HF
refrigerated air dryers in addition to the usual filters to help keep
the new plasma cutter happy. In addition to the plasma cutter, the air
will be serving the air/hyd 20T press, blowguns at the lathe and mill,
and the usual assortment of impact wrench / hammer / nailer / tire
inflator.

I inspected that air dryer, and it looks reasonably well made. It's
on sale? Cool, gotta get over there.

It's on sale on the Harbor Freight web site (not HFUSA site or in
flyer), just print the web page and bring it along and your 20% coupon
of course.


New Harbor Fright 2 miles away, no more Road Trips to Camarillo.

Now if someone will come up with a reasonably priced Nitrogen
Generator for filling tires...

Give them some time to clone the $5k IR one for about $750...

Pete C.


--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:59:12 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:
"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:

Now if someone will come up with a reasonably priced Nitrogen
Generator for filling tires...

Give them some time to clone the $5k IR one for about $750...

It would be a true Trifecta if they sent the Nitrogen from the
molecular sieve element out into one receiver tank for tires and inert
gas uses, and the Oxygen into another receiver for welding and
cutting.

Then all you would need to lug home (or get delivered) is Acetylene
and shielding gas - CO2 or CO2/Argon, or something more exotic if
you're doing odd materials. I don't think I want to try running a
large carbide generator.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:38:03 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

I'm in the midst of an overhaul of my small home shop (20'x32' detached)
and among the items on the agenda is some fixed air line.

The question is - Black pipe or soldered copper. Black pipe is rather a
pain to work with, heavy and fairly expensive, while type L copper is
much easier to work with and I think actually a bit cheaper overall not
to mention the typical HD / Lowe's black pipe fittings are crap. I think
the nice smooth bore of 1/2" copper will give better air flow rates vs.
1/2" black pipe as well.

I've heard it noted that for copper air lines you should use "hard"
solder. Since all the normal plumbing solder these days is lead-free
silver bearing I'm thinking this qualifies as "hard" solder.

I expect I'll be running the air through one of the cheap HF
refrigerated air dryers in addition to the usual filters to help keep
the new plasma cutter happy. In addition to the plasma cutter, the air
will be serving the air/hyd 20T press, blowguns at the lathe and mill,
and the usual assortment of impact wrench / hammer / nailer / tire
inflator.

Thoughts / suggestions?

Thanks,

Pete C.

Not all lead-free plumbing solder is silver-bearing. A lot of it is
95 tin 5 antimony. It's cheaper, but it doesn't wet as well as the
stuff with a little silver in it for a buck more a small roll. The
silver-bearing stuff doesn't qualify as "hard" solder, but it is
completely adequate for soldering air lines.

My air lines are copper, soft-soldered. Been in service for nearly 20
years. I see no reason to silverbraze air lines.

There is no way I'd use plastic. I've had no bad experience with
plastic, but others have and I hate replacing stuff.

Use some flexible line, like hose, between the compressor and any
copper plumbing. Copper will fatigue with vibration, flare joints
will eventually fail. This I do know from experience!

"Red" writes:

woodworker88 wrote:
One thing I would definitely recommend if you have a fixed
compressor/pipe setup is a small portable air tank.

Depends on where you live. Portable air tanks are illegal in NJ

What about air tanks that are attatched to portable compressors?
An air tank is an air tank...

What exactly is the rationale for this law? I can't imagine who would
benefit from it (compressor salesmen?).

In article ,
lid says...
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:38:03 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

I've heard it noted that for copper air lines you should use "hard"
solder. Since all the normal plumbing solder these days is lead-free
silver bearing I'm thinking this qualifies as "hard" solder.

I use heavy L Copper and silver-brazed connections. That means
there's no reasonable way that a plumber thinks it's a water line when
they see the silver-braze. Unless he's an utter moron, and I try to
keep them off the property at all costs.


If this is a real concern, rather than going to the trouble and expense
of hard solder, buy a roll of OSHA pipe marking tape that says
COMPRESSED AIR and remove all ambiguity.

Ned Simmons

Who says laws have to be sensible? My best guess is someone was
injured by a rusted out portable tank, so the locals passed a law. It's
widely ignored, from what I've seen in NJ, but it's useful to be
informed, in case of an accident or insurance claim.

I'm in california and can't speak for laws elseware, but many people
here buy those tiny 1-2 gallon or less compressors and then have a
secondary tank to hold more air ( I myself am guilty of doing this,
although not illegal here). Many people buy them, but I have seen many
improvised ones. I see the most failures in lousy connectors and hoses
rather than the tanks or piping (in plumbed systems).