Am contemplating constructing a wood cutting chop saw for cutting up
fireplace logs. 18" circular blades are readily available here and would
seem about the right size for the size of logs I'd be working with.
Question is, what HP electric motor would be required (about 3?) and, what
would be best RPM for the blade?

All suggestions appreciated.....

Laurie Forbes

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:01:17 GMT, "Laurie Forbes"
wrote:

Am contemplating constructing a wood cutting chop saw for cutting up
fireplace logs. 18" circular blades are readily available here and would
seem about the right size for the size of logs I'd be working with.
Question is, what HP electric motor would be required (about 3?) and, what
would be best RPM for the blade?

I find it reprehensible, and perhaps even illegal, to cut down habitat
that squirrels need to have in order to survive. You cut down that
habitat, baby squirrels fall to the ground, which enables people to
make pets out of them. And we all know that's just cruel.

All suggestions appreciated.....

Save the whales, collect the whole set?

Snarl

Laurie Forbes wrote:
Am contemplating constructing a wood cutting chop saw for cutting up
fireplace logs. 18" circular blades are readily available here and would
seem about the right size for the size of logs I'd be working with.
Question is, what HP electric motor would be required (about 3?) and, what
would be best RPM for the blade?

All suggestions appreciated.....

Laurie Forbes



7.5hp MINIMUM motor, and that's electric. If gas, make it 18hp.

Blade speed 3000 sfm. 1.5' diameter, 4.7' circumference, rpm = 636.

Figure 1760 rpm / 3 = 586 rpm, close enough, gear a 1760 motor down 3:1-ish.

This sounds *extremely* unsafe. Better type all your questions now while you
still have hands.

GWE

I have a wood cutting saw that I mostly use to cut up scrap lumber for
my wood stoves. Mine is just a 10 inch blade and powered by a 1.5 hp
motor. The blade turns at about 4000 rpm. Works good, but not really
safe.

I would definately drive an 18 inch blade much slower. The 4000 rpm is
somewhat dictated by wanting a small pulley on the saw blade mandrel so
I can cut 4 by 4's. The saw blade that I have has a fairly thin kerf.
An 18 inch blade would probably have a kerf two or three times as wide,
and therefore would require two or three times the hp for the same
cutting speed. My intuitive guess is that hp required is proportional
to the surface area of the sawdust created per minute. I think you
would be happy with a three hp motor. I would rather stall the motor
when the blade binds that have so much hp that it never stalls. And
instead throws wood at the operator.


Dan

Laurie Forbes wrote:
Am contemplating constructing a wood cutting chop saw for cutting up
fireplace logs. 18" circular blades are readily available here and would
seem about the right size for the size of logs I'd be working with.
Question is, what HP electric motor would be required (about 3?) and, what
would be best RPM for the blade?

All suggestions appreciated.....

Laurie Forbes

In article , Grant Erwin
wrote:

Laurie Forbes wrote:
Am contemplating constructing a wood cutting chop saw for cutting up
fireplace logs. 18" circular blades are readily available here and would
seem about the right size for the size of logs I'd be working with.
Question is, what HP electric motor would be required (about 3?) and, what
would be best RPM for the blade?

All suggestions appreciated.....

Laurie Forbes



7.5hp MINIMUM motor, and that's electric. If gas, make it 18hp.

I've run a 36" circular saw blade on a 7.5HP 3 phase motor. There's
enough power to get the job done. That was for ripping, not cross
cutting.

PDW

wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a wood cutting saw that I mostly use to cut up scrap lumber for
my wood stoves. Mine is just a 10 inch blade and powered by a 1.5 hp
motor. The blade turns at about 4000 rpm. Works good, but not really
safe.

I would definately drive an 18 inch blade much slower. The 4000 rpm is
somewhat dictated by wanting a small pulley on the saw blade mandrel so
I can cut 4 by 4's. The saw blade that I have has a fairly thin kerf.
An 18 inch blade would probably have a kerf two or three times as wide,
and therefore would require two or three times the hp for the same
cutting speed. My intuitive guess is that hp required is proportional
to the surface area of the sawdust created per minute. I think you
would be happy with a three hp motor. I would rather stall the motor
when the blade binds that have so much hp that it never stalls. And
instead throws wood at the operator.


I think you are right - if a 10" blade normally operates at a given cutting
speed at say, 3600 RPM, an 18" for a similar cutting speed would be about
2000 RPM. This seems quite reasonable as I have noted that *max* speed
advertised for the particular 18" blade I was looking at is 3600 RPM. The
HP being proportional to the rate of chip production also seems reasonable
so, particularly if the saw is not forced too hard, 3 HP seems like it would
do it alright. As well, the logs I will be cutting are all aspen & balsam
poplar which, as woods go, are quite soft (and, it's all cross cutting, no
ripping).

As far as throwing wood, I am thinking of devising a long actuator "handle"
which would be operated from the side of the saw rather than in front of it.
I think that would be safer but would appreciate any comments otherwise. It
also seems to me that operating the saw as a "chop" saw (pivoting feed as
opposed to sliding) would also tend to make it safer as the blade would not
tend to pull itself into the wood.

Laurie Forbes

3000 sfm is what is used on bandsaws when cutting wood I believe.

The horsepower I was gaging based on abrasive metal cutting. After all, this
*is* a metalworking NG. The electric/gas hp equivalency I was told by an
industrial air compressor company (Quincy) when I called to inquire about
repowering an 18hp trailer-mounted compressor with electric.

The issue with safety is probably just my own fear. I have an incredible fear of
large saw blades, or maybe I should rephrase that as respect.

GWE

Laurie Forbes wrote:
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

Laurie Forbes wrote:

Am contemplating constructing a wood cutting chop saw for cutting up
fireplace logs. 18" circular blades are readily available here and would
seem about the right size for the size of logs I'd be working with.
Question is, what HP electric motor would be required (about 3?) and,
what would be best RPM for the blade?

All suggestions appreciated.....

Laurie Forbes



7.5hp MINIMUM motor, and that's electric. If gas, make it 18hp.


Seems a bit large but I would be interested in how those values are
calculated. Keep in mind I won't be ripping with it and don't require
particularly fast cutting speed.

Blade speed 3000 sfm. 1.5' diameter, 4.7' circumference, rpm = 636.


I'm not sure where the 3000 ft/min derrives from - my 10" radial saw turns
about 3600 RPM which gives a surface speed of about 9500 ft/min. Is there
some inherant reason why larger blades should be a lot lower?

Figure 1760 rpm / 3 = 586 rpm, close enough, gear a 1760 motor down
3:1-ish.

This sounds *extremely* unsafe. Better type all your questions now while
you still have hands.


I realize such a saw would have to be built solidly, with proper shielding
etc. and operated with caution but I would be interested in specific reasons
why it would be necessarily unsafe (18" is certainly not by a long ways the
largest saw blade in use).

I appreciate your response but would be interested in more detail if you
could provide it...

Laurie Forbes

I ran a 30" cordwood saw years back. Nasty beast. Used a sliding table
rather than moving the arbor. I'm guessing it ran in the 900 rpm range
(hard to know exactly since the drive mechanism was NON STANDARD!!) The
30" saw was used on huge piles of green birch running up to about 8",
would slice it like butter. Saw teeth were on the order of an inch high,
1-1/2" tooth to tooth. (As in .6 teeth per inch?)

Found these pics:
http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/advert/ax24.htm
http://www.antiquetractors.com/content/yph4283.htm
http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/dragsaw/ds23.gif
http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/dragsaw/ds29.gif
http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/dragsaw/ds26.gif
http://www.tractorshed.com/photoads/upload/35381.jpg

For your 18", 3hp would be a good start, 5hp would be better. You would
want double 'V' belts, notched belts would be better. I'd try for around
1800 rpm which means finding an 1800 rpm motor so you could get a 1:1
pulley setup.

I don't think you will like the 18" blade, too small once you deal with
the arbor, bearings, and pulley. Hard to get more that 6" to 7" of
actual cut diameter. Keep in mind that logs have curves and knots. You
really need some guards that both work to keep hands out and work with
logs that are not anywhere near as straight as cheap 2x4's

I'll second Grant's phobia about saws like this. BTDT, still have all my
fingers and hands. Not sure why I was so lucky.

Grant Erwin wrote:
Laurie Forbes wrote:

Am contemplating constructing a wood cutting chop saw for cutting up
fireplace logs. 18" circular blades are readily available here and
would seem about the right size for the size of logs I'd be working
with. Question is, what HP electric motor would be required (about 3?)
and, what would be best RPM for the blade?

All suggestions appreciated.....

Laurie Forbes



7.5hp MINIMUM motor, and that's electric. If gas, make it 18hp.

Blade speed 3000 sfm. 1.5' diameter, 4.7' circumference, rpm = 636.

Figure 1760 rpm / 3 = 586 rpm, close enough, gear a 1760 motor down
3:1-ish.

This sounds *extremely* unsafe. Better type all your questions now while
you still have hands.

GWE

I agree on the respect issue.
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
3000 sfm is what is used on bandsaws when cutting wood I believe.

The horsepower I was gaging based on abrasive metal cutting. After all,
this *is* a metalworking NG. The electric/gas hp equivalency I was told by
an industrial air compressor company (Quincy) when I called to inquire
about repowering an 18hp trailer-mounted compressor with electric.

The issue with safety is probably just my own fear. I have an incredible
fear of large saw blades, or maybe I should rephrase that as respect.

GWE

Laurie Forbes wrote:
"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

Laurie Forbes wrote:

Am contemplating constructing a wood cutting chop saw for cutting up
fireplace logs. 18" circular blades are readily available here and
would seem about the right size for the size of logs I'd be working
with. Question is, what HP electric motor would be required (about 3?)
and, what would be best RPM for the blade?

All suggestions appreciated.....

Laurie Forbes



7.5hp MINIMUM motor, and that's electric. If gas, make it 18hp.


Seems a bit large but I would be interested in how those values are
calculated. Keep in mind I won't be ripping with it and don't require
particularly fast cutting speed.

Blade speed 3000 sfm. 1.5' diameter, 4.7' circumference, rpm = 636.


I'm not sure where the 3000 ft/min derrives from - my 10" radial saw
turns about 3600 RPM which gives a surface speed of about 9500 ft/min.
Is there some inherant reason why larger blades should be a lot lower?

Figure 1760 rpm / 3 = 586 rpm, close enough, gear a 1760 motor down
3:1-ish.

This sounds *extremely* unsafe. Better type all your questions now while
you still have hands.


I realize such a saw would have to be built solidly, with proper
shielding etc. and operated with caution but I would be interested in
specific reasons why it would be necessarily unsafe (18" is certainly not
by a long ways the largest saw blade in use).

I appreciate your response but would be interested in more detail if you
could provide it...

Laurie Forbes

OH MY GOD!!!! I HAVE big saws so, don't listen to the guesses. My 14" is
12 hp. I wouldn't power an 18" with anything less than 15 hp preferably
20. Trust me, you DON'T want to stall it.
Or: DO-YOU-HAVE-A-VIDEO-CAMERA???

"Laurie Forbes" wrote in message
news:1TrKf.6873$_62.2663@edtnps90...
Am contemplating constructing a wood cutting chop saw for cutting up
fireplace logs. 18" circular blades are readily available here and would
seem about the right size for the size of logs I'd be working with.
Question is, what HP electric motor would be required (about 3?) and, what
would be best RPM for the blade?

All suggestions appreciated.....

Laurie Forbes

Laurie Forbes wrote:

Am contemplating constructing a wood cutting chop saw for cutting up
fireplace logs. 18" circular blades are readily available here and would
seem about the right size for the size of logs I'd be working with.
Question is, what HP electric motor would be required (about 3?) and, what
would be best RPM for the blade?

All suggestions appreciated.....

Laurie Forbes

I'm pretty sure a chain saw is a safer, faster and cheaper way to cut
fire wood. I also question the motor sizes others have indicated since a
chain saw with an 18" bar does just fine with about a 3 hp gas engine.
If you really want a "chop saw" style setup I think you could do just
fine building a unit with a quality electric chain saw.

Pete C.

Chip Load Formula
Known:
Feed Speed ------- 90 fpm.
No. of Teeth ------ 60
RPM --------------- 3600
Unknown:
Chip Load -------- ?
Chip Load is -----0.005"

Feed Speed (fpm) x 12 / No. of Teeth x rpm
= Chip Load

Tooth Quantity Formula
Known:
Feed Speed ----------- 90 fpm
RPM ------------------- 3600
Chip Load ------------ 0.005"
Unknown:
No of Teeth ------------- ?
No of Teeth is ---------- 60

Formula
Feeds speed (fpm) x 12 / Rpm x chip load = no. teeth

Feed Speed Formula
Known:
No. of Teeth ------- 60
RPM ----------------- 3600
Chip Load ---------- 0.005"
Unknown:
Feed speed ------------ ?
Feed Speed is --------- 90 fpm
Note: Feed Speed must be converted to inches. (90 x 12)

Rpm x no. teeth x chip load / (12.9inches per foot)
= FeedSpeed

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
3000 sfm is what is used on bandsaws when cutting wood I believe.

The horsepower I was gaging based on abrasive metal cutting. After all,
this *is* a metalworking NG. The electric/gas hp equivalency I was told by
an industrial air compressor company (Quincy) when I called to inquire
about repowering an 18hp trailer-mounted compressor with electric.

The issue with safety is probably just my own fear. I have an incredible
fear of large saw blades, or maybe I should rephrase that as respect.


I hear your concerns re large blades and am now not completely sanguine
about it either (that's one reason I'm asking for advice). In regard to
metalworking NG, the connection is that I plan to cut wood with this thing,
not construct it using wood

Laurie Forbes

"Pete Keillor" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:23:51 GMT, "Laurie Forbes"
wrote:



I hear your concerns re large blades and am now not completely sanguine
about it either (that's one reason I'm asking for advice). In regard to
metalworking NG, the connection is that I plan to cut wood with this
thing,
not construct it using wood

Laurie Forbes

Interesting choice of words, sanguine. You want to avoid
exsanguination with this saw.


It is appropriate alright ("sanguine" - also defined as 'Colour. Of the
colour of blood; red.').

I have accidentally deleted recent posts to this thread but thanks anyhow to
the poster who seemed to agree that 3 HP and 1800 RPM would be appropriate.
Someone else also posted that much higher HPs would be needed (can't
remember exactly what numbers were given) - called the manufacturer of the
blades (Dimar) I've been looking at and, while they did not have published
HP data, he suggested looking at commercial saws to see what HP motors they
come with for the same (18") blade diameter. I found a range of 5 to 7.5 HP
for that blade size but no corresponding current draw figures were given for
the motors so I wonder if they are quoting "Sears" HP units or similar.
Anyhow, the guy at the manufacturer guessed that 3 HP might work but would
be a minimum. Seeing I am only going to crosscut softwoods and don't need a
whole lot of speed, hopefully 3 HP will be adequate (I suppose I could
always add a bigger motor afterward if need be).

As to the suggestion that 18" might not be large enough, there is a 20"er
also available but I'm thinking the 18 would be good enough as it would
handle 90% of the logs I will be cutting and the large logs can always be
cut from both sides.

As to using an electric chain saw, I asked here about that a few months ago
and the consensus was that they would be unsuitable as they are generally
used mainly for light pruning type of work. The local vendors I spoke to
pretty much confirmed that. Chain saws electric or gas also need chain
sharpening which I would like to avoid.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Laurie Forbes

You will not be able to safely cut larger logs from both sides.
Guranteed to bind.

Laurie Forbes wrote:
"Pete Keillor" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:23:51 GMT, "Laurie Forbes"
wrote:


I hear your concerns re large blades and am now not completely sanguine
about it either (that's one reason I'm asking for advice). In regard to
metalworking NG, the connection is that I plan to cut wood with this
thing,
not construct it using wood

Laurie Forbes


Interesting choice of words, sanguine. You want to avoid
exsanguination with this saw.



It is appropriate alright ("sanguine" - also defined as 'Colour. Of the
colour of blood; red.').

I have accidentally deleted recent posts to this thread but thanks anyhow to
the poster who seemed to agree that 3 HP and 1800 RPM would be appropriate.
Someone else also posted that much higher HPs would be needed (can't
remember exactly what numbers were given) - called the manufacturer of the
blades (Dimar) I've been looking at and, while they did not have published
HP data, he suggested looking at commercial saws to see what HP motors they
come with for the same (18") blade diameter. I found a range of 5 to 7.5 HP
for that blade size but no corresponding current draw figures were given for
the motors so I wonder if they are quoting "Sears" HP units or similar.
Anyhow, the guy at the manufacturer guessed that 3 HP might work but would
be a minimum. Seeing I am only going to crosscut softwoods and don't need a
whole lot of speed, hopefully 3 HP will be adequate (I suppose I could
always add a bigger motor afterward if need be).

As to the suggestion that 18" might not be large enough, there is a 20"er
also available but I'm thinking the 18 would be good enough as it would
handle 90% of the logs I will be cutting and the large logs can always be
cut from both sides.

As to using an electric chain saw, I asked here about that a few months ago
and the consensus was that they would be unsuitable as they are generally
used mainly for light pruning type of work. The local vendors I spoke to
pretty much confirmed that. Chain saws electric or gas also need chain
sharpening which I would like to avoid.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Laurie Forbes

On 21 Feb 2006 18:07:28 -0800, wrote:

Chain saws electric or gas also need chain
sharpening which I would like to avoid.


Not trying to be a jerk here. But, you're going to have to sharpen that
18" saw blade too, unless you just intend to run it dull and then burn
it up. I'm with the rest of the folks here, get yourself a small chain
saw, unless you are after doing it the way Great Granpappy did it,
belted up to a small gas engine.
And that must be a Fairbanks-Morse single cylinder, hit and miss; or
alternately, mount the blade in place of a rear wheel on a Model "T"
drive line.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

wrote in message
oups.com...
Chain saws electric or gas also need chain
sharpening which I would like to avoid.


Not trying to be a jerk here. But, you're going to have to sharpen that
18" saw blade too, unless you just intend to run it dull and then burn
it up.

Yes, but the 18" (carbide) saw blade would last *much* longer than a chain
saw between sharpenings (hundreds of times??). It would be great if you
could buy carbide chain saw blades, AFAIK you can't.

I'm with the rest of the folks here, get yourself a small chain
saw,

I have one but am tired of the smoke, noise, stink and blade sharpening -
just looking for an easier way and besides, I need a new metal fab project


Laurie Forbes

Laurie Forbes wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Chain saws electric or gas also need chain
sharpening which I would like to avoid.


Not trying to be a jerk here. But, you're going to have to sharpen that
18" saw blade too, unless you just intend to run it dull and then burn
it up.

Yes, but the 18" (carbide) saw blade would last *much* longer than a chain
saw between sharpenings (hundreds of times??). It would be great if you
could buy carbide chain saw blades, AFAIK you can't.

I'm with the rest of the folks here, get yourself a small chain
saw,

I have one but am tired of the smoke, noise, stink and blade sharpening -
just looking for an easier way and besides, I need a new metal fab project


Laurie Forbes


You can buy carbide chain, but be prepared for sticker shock
http://onlinestore.forestindustry.co...ml?id=5mAQnXeG
Joe

Laurie Forbes wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
Chain saws electric or gas also need chain
sharpening which I would like to avoid.


Not trying to be a jerk here. But, you're going to have to sharpen that
18" saw blade too, unless you just intend to run it dull and then burn
it up.

Yes, but the 18" (carbide) saw blade would last *much* longer than a chain
saw between sharpenings (hundreds of times??). It would be great if you
could buy carbide chain saw blades, AFAIK you can't.

I'm with the rest of the folks here, get yourself a small chain
saw,

I have one but am tired of the smoke, noise, stink and blade sharpening -
just looking for an easier way and besides, I need a new metal fab project


Laurie Forbes

So get a decent electric chain saw and build a chop saw style mount for
it. An 18" circular saw isn't going to be any quieter than an electric
chain saw and both will need sharpening periodically. I expect
sharpening for a length of chain will be cheaper than an 18" blade as
well.

Pete C.

Rapco in Vacouver, WA has been making carbide tipped chain saw chain
for a lot of years. They make a lot of it for fire departments, etc.
Good quality and nice folks.

Ron Blehm
Rapco
6000 NE 88th Street, #D-104
Vancouever, WA 98665
360-573-0090

When I was cutting wood for sale (8-10 hrs a day, 6 days a week) I
managed to wear out about a chain and bar every month. If you don't hit
dirt or a piece of steel or stone while cutting that chain will stay
sharp for a long time and even then it would take about 5 minutes to
hand file the teeth and repair any damage, normal touch up to the teeth
takes about 2 minutes. Also used a 40" buzz saw for limbs and smaller
wood that was powered for the OLD F-20 I used as a power source for the
saw and an elevator to stack split wood. Neat to use but VERY dangerous
as well. That saw has 18" of exposed blade spinning in front of you on
top of the bed. One misstep and folks will be calling you Lefty or Cap'n
Hook for the rest of your life.

Your idea on carbide is also wrong it will dull just like a chain if it
hits steel or stone tried a carbide chain myself due to mud on the logs.
They worked OK but not well enough to justify the price.

Carbide chain is easy to get but not really worth the bother unless you
have a real need like concrete or fire service demolition work. You can
also get diamond bonded chain if you cutting into mixed material like
reinforced concrete. We have a demo saw in one of the engines at the
station just for difficult work like cutting cars apart or cutting
through roofs to provide ventilation that came with carbide.

--
Steve Williams


"Laurie Forbes" wrote in message
news:i6SKf.14762$jh5.8194@edtnps84...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Chain saws electric or gas also need chain
sharpening which I would like to avoid.


Not trying to be a jerk here. But, you're going to have to sharpen
that
18" saw blade too, unless you just intend to run it dull and then
burn
it up.

Yes, but the 18" (carbide) saw blade would last *much* longer than a
chain
saw between sharpenings (hundreds of times??). It would be great if
you
could buy carbide chain saw blades, AFAIK you can't.

I'm with the rest of the folks here, get yourself a small chain
saw,

I have one but am tired of the smoke, noise, stink and blade
sharpening -
just looking for an easier way and besides, I need a new metal fab
project


Laurie Forbes





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A common maximum rpm for an 18" blade is 3,800.

I found the article on critical speeds and will be happy to email it to
you if you wish.

tom