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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Tool Terms
A recent discussion on tool posts has inspired me to ask if there
exists a dictionary of sorts for the various tools and accessories associated with lathes and milling machines? The couple of library books I've found so far haven't dealt with much past the basics. And even the occasional mention of common items here on the newsgroup rarely go into details because it is assume that all those reading know exactly what the tool looks like and does. I would like to be able to look up something like a "tailstock turret" and find not only the basic description and it's purpose, but a picture of what it looks like, how it's secured to the machine, reference to the various types(shapes & materials), along with their pros and cons, and any terms associated with their use. In other words, somthing that'll teach me more than what I can get from browsing catalogs. If such a site or book exists, I'd appreciate any info. Thanks a lot. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#2
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Tool Terms
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#3
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Tool Terms
wrote in message oups.com... A recent discussion on tool posts has inspired me to ask if there exists a dictionary of sorts for the various tools and accessories associated with lathes and milling machines? The couple of library books I've found so far haven't dealt with much past the basics. And even the occasional mention of common items here on the newsgroup rarely go into details because it is assume that all those reading know exactly what the tool looks like and does. I would like to be able to look up something like a "tailstock turret" and find not only the basic description and it's purpose, but a picture of what it looks like, how it's secured to the machine, reference to the various types(shapes & materials), along with their pros and cons, and any terms associated with their use. In other words, somthing that'll teach me more than what I can get from browsing catalogs. If such a site or book exists, I'd appreciate any info. Thanks a lot. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. They're called "tool catalogs..." Jerry |
#4
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Tool Terms
Grant Erwin wrote:
Would you like fries with that? :-) Naw, just a shake would be fine. I'm on a diet... :-) Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#5
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Tool Terms
According to :
A recent discussion on tool posts has inspired me to ask if there exists a dictionary of sorts for the various tools and accessories associated with lathes and milling machines? The couple of library books I've found so far haven't dealt with much past the basics. And even the occasional mention of common items here on the newsgroup rarely go into details because it is assume that all those reading know exactly what the tool looks like and does. I would like to be able to look up something like a "tailstock turret" and find not only the basic description and it's purpose, but a picture of what it looks like, how it's secured to the machine, reference to the various types(shapes & materials), along with their pros and cons, and any terms associated with their use. O.K. For that one -- you might try to get the _Machine Shop Practice_ by Moultrecht. It is a two volume book, which is occasionally offered on sale by MSC (where I got mine), and other places. This will also cover an overview of turret tooling, covering things like a "roller box tool" and a "Geometric die head". And -- it will show the powered turret lathes as well -- where the turret derives power from the leadscrew, just as the carriage cross-slide does. Note that you will *not* find a bed turret for the machine which you were considering last I knew. They tend to be for semi industrial machines, including my 12X24" Clausing, which came with a bed turret which matched the serial number of the lathe -- they came from the factory together. I had to chase down a standard tailstock to use with the lathe for non-production operations. In other words, somthing that'll teach me more than what I can get from browsing catalogs. Things like the quick-change toolposts may not be well covered, because the nicest ones are a bit too new to have been well covered by the book in question. If such a site or book exists, I'd appreciate any info. You could try getting that pair from the library, or try to spot them on eBay, or order them from MSC or some other tool vendor. Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#6
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Tool Terms
Look for a copy of Audel's Machinists and Tool Makers Handy Book. My copy
is from 1941. It has illustrated pictures of many machines with the parts identified and then much info on how to set them up and run them. Go visit the library or a used book store an hunt up some of the older machinery books. It won't tell you about CNC and not much about the modern quick change toolposts but it will go a long way for you. Glenn wrote in message oups.com... A recent discussion on tool posts has inspired me to ask if there exists a dictionary of sorts for the various tools and accessories associated with lathes and milling machines? The couple of library books I've found so far haven't dealt with much past the basics. And even the occasional mention of common items here on the newsgroup rarely go into details because it is assume that all those reading know exactly what the tool looks like and does. I would like to be able to look up something like a "tailstock turret" and find not only the basic description and it's purpose, but a picture of what it looks like, how it's secured to the machine, reference to the various types(shapes & materials), along with their pros and cons, and any terms associated with their use. In other words, somthing that'll teach me more than what I can get from browsing catalogs. If such a site or book exists, I'd appreciate any info. Thanks a lot. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#7
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Tool Terms
Machinery's Handbook!
Bugs |
#8
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Tool Terms
Thanks everyone for the advice.
I was actually already looking for Machinery's Handbook, so I hope to get that soon. I'm not looking to be a pain. But the reason for my question is because I've spent the entire weekend in front of my pc in an attempt to cram as much as possible, but I've found that all things aren't covered anywhere near completely. They may be mentioned, but if you have never used or seen one used(even if there is a picture of it) you wouldn't always know where it goes, how it attaches, if it is compatible with your machine, if it is the best tool of it's type for what you want to do, ect. After two days, I still can't find much info on "collet blocks" or "draw bars". Or enough about indexing tools to figure out what exatly I'd need to allow me to cut gears on my (specific)lathe.(Or what it would look like for that matter). The last several hours I've been researching Calipers and Indicators trying to figure out which ones are best for determining the accuracy of a tube's I.D. and O.D. And then taps are a whole other issue. I'm not rich enough to start buying up stuff that sounds as though it would work for me, and eBay auctions haven't helped a whole lot outside of showing pictures of things that are hard to see anywhere else. One Ebayer("czodda") has been auctioning a lot of tooling, but can't tell me the size of any of it. I could literally walk to this seller and pick up the stuff if I won any of the auctions, but why bid on something that may not be compatable with my machine? I don't know enough to know what I'm looking at. Anyway, thanks again.(Especially for listening). :-) Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#9
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Tool Terms
According to :
Thanks everyone for the advice. I was actually already looking for Machinery's Handbook, so I hope to get that soon. [ ... ] After two days, I still can't find much info on "collet blocks" or Try this page (assuming that it will work after I close my browser): http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...PMT4NO=4713402 (It appears to work.) Scroll down until you see the images. You should see a square collet block, a hexagonal collet block, two threaded rings for closing collets (there are no collets there, you will need to buy at least the sizes which you expect to use), and a hand lever assembly for quickly tightening and releasing the collets instead of having to tighten the rings more slowly. You can clamp the workpiece in a collet in the square block, clamp the block in the vise on the milling attachment. and mill a flat on the workpiece. You then loosen the vise, rotate the collet block one flat, and mill the next flat. Repeat until you have all four sides. The hexagonal block can be used to make hexagonal shapes (e.g. bolt heads or nuts), or three-sided shapes. In the same way, the square one can be used to make a simple pair of flats, instead of a square, if that is what is needed. This is one of the things which you *need* the MSC catalog for. You could look it up in the index, and turn to the proper page, to at least see what the blocks look like. That is page 1565 in the current "Big Book". The previous page shows individual collets in the 5C size (the ones which fit the blocks), which have hex or square holes to hold workpieces of that shape. You have to step back to page 1562 to find round collets, with differing prices for different grades of collets. The "Import ones should suffice for this type of operation, at least. The 7/16" one goes for $8.45, as do all of the other sizes in that grade. "draw bars". A drawbar is a part of a milling machine, or a lathe fitted with collets. You are unlikely to find them listed separately, and once you have a lathe, you can make most styles as you need them. Or enough about indexing tools to figure out what exatly I'd need to allow me to cut gears on my (specific)lathe. An indexing head is more often used on a milling machine than a lathe. Most are too big for your lathe, even in milling machine mode, though some small ones could be adapted. There are several styles. An alternative name to look under is "dividing head". (Or what it would look like for that matter). The MSC catalog, again. The last several hours I've been researching Calipers and Indicators trying to figure out which ones are best for determining the accuracy of a tube's I.D. and O.D. Most indicators are better for showing how well centered a part is than for measuring precisely. A plunger style dial indicator, mounted on a proper stand, can be used to compare something to a set of gauge blocks to get the best measurement. Normally, for measuring OD, you want a good micrometer set of sufficient range. For ID measurement, unless you have a mint handy, you will want to get a set of telescoping gauges (again see the MSC catalog). And then taps are a whole other issue. I lose count of how many pages dedicated to taps are in the MSC catalog. :-) I'm not rich enough to start buying up stuff that sounds as though it would work for me, and eBay auctions haven't helped a whole lot outside of showing pictures of things that are hard to see anywhere else. One Ebayer("czodda") has been auctioning a lot of tooling, but can't tell me the size of any of it. I can tell you that the collets shown in that one auction are *not* the 5C size which you would need -- and don't look to be in any condition worth bidding on. There are actually two different sizes there, and neither is of use to you at present. The lot which is supposed to include a "Starrett micrometer" does not appear to have one -- though I see an old Starrett "speed indicator", which is no practical use to you. I could literally walk to this seller and pick up the stuff if I won any of the auctions, but why bid on something that may not be compatable with my machine? I don't know enough to know what I'm looking at. Having looked at his auctions -- I would say skip him. He doesn't know what he's selling. He can't provide good enough photos for you to tell (or even me). And, given his shipping charge, I'll bet that he would not allow you to walk over and pick up what you "won". Leave him to the old tool collectors, who seem to be his target market. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#11
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Tool Terms
Thanks everyone for the advice.
I was actually already looking for Machinery's Handbook, so I hope to get that soon. I'm not looking to be a pain. But the reason for my question is because I've spent the entire weekend in front of my pc in an attempt to cram as much as possible, but I've found that all things aren't covered anywhere near completely. They may be mentioned, but if you have never used or seen one used(even if there is a picture of it) you wouldn't always know where it goes, how it attaches, if it is compatible with your machine, if it is the best tool of it's type for what you want to do, ect. After two days, I still can't find much info on "collet blocks" or "draw bars". Or enough about indexing tools to figure out what exatly I'd need to allow me to cut gears on my (specific)lathe.(Or what it would look like for that matter). The last several hours I've been researching Calipers and Indicators trying to figure out which ones are best for determining the accuracy of a tube's I.D. and O.D. And then taps are a whole other issue. I'm not rich enough to start buying up stuff that sounds as though it would work for me, and eBay auctions haven't helped a whole lot outside of showing pictures of things that are hard to see anywhere else. One Ebayer("czodda") has been auctioning a lot of tooling, but can't tell me the size of any of it. I could literally walk to this seller and pick up the stuff if I won any of the auctions, but why bid on something that may not be compatable with my machine? I don't know enough to know what I'm looking at. Anyway, thanks again.(Especially for listening). :-) Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Tool Terms
Try this page (assuming that it will work after I close my
browser): http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...PMT4NO=4713402 (It appears to work.) Scroll down until you see the images. You should see a square collet block, a hexagonal collet block, two threaded rings for closing collets (there are no collets there, you will need to buy at least the sizes which you expect to use), and a hand lever assembly for quickly tightening and releasing the collets instead of having to tighten the rings more slowly. Ok. So the rings serve to lock the collets into the blocks, which are held by the vise. I just have to figure out what size of 2 Flute end mills I'll need and how best to "chuck" them.(I'll have to also search for some 1/4" ball-end mills while I'm at it). You can clamp the workpiece in a collet in the square block, clamp the block in the vise on the milling attachment. and mill a flat on the workpiece. You then loosen the vise, rotate the collet block one flat, and mill the next flat. Repeat until you have all four sides. Are there five sided collets?(Everything seems to jump from four to six). The hexagonal block can be used to make hexagonal shapes (e.g. bolt heads or nuts), or three-sided shapes. In the same way, the square one can be used to make a simple pair of flats, instead of a square, if that is what is needed. I went with square because I assume it would be easier to make a square hole in a Delrin disk to allow it to fit over/on a square rod. This is one of the things which you *need* the MSC catalog for. You could look it up in the index, and turn to the proper page, to at least see what the blocks look like. That is page 1565 in the current "Big Book". The previous page shows individual collets in the 5C size (the ones which fit the blocks), which have hex or square holes to hold workpieces of that shape. You have to step back to page 1562 to find round collets, with differing prices for different grades of collets. The "Import ones should suffice for this type of operation, at least. The 7/16" one goes for $8.45, as do all of the other sizes in that grade. I hope to receive an MSC catalog soon. I think I received an e-mail that the catalog was unavailable the first time I tried.(At least I think it was MSC). Thanks for the info on collets and collet blocks. I assume that there is a solution for 360 divisions. I'll definitely need that option for future projects.(One of which will include making gears). A drawbar is a part of a milling machine, or a lathe fitted with collets. You are unlikely to find them listed separately, and once you have a lathe, you can make most styles as you need them. Great. BTW. http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=2224 http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=2374 Or enough about indexing tools to figure out what exatly I'd need to allow me to cut gears on my (specific)lathe. An indexing head is more often used on a milling machine than a lathe. Most are too big for your lathe, even in milling machine mode, though some small ones could be adapted. I'll have to search for the smallest one I can find and see what is possible. There are several styles. An alternative name to look under is "dividing head". Yes. In the Grizzly catalog I have there is one, and also indexing rotary tables and chucks. BTW. There is a 3" rotary table(H6195) that has a profile of 1.670".(But it doesn't index). :-( One Ebayer("czodda") has been auctioning a lot of tooling, but can't tell me the size of any of it. I can tell you that the collets shown in that one auction are *not* the 5C size which you would need -- and don't look to be in any condition worth bidding on. There are actually two different sizes there, and neither is of use to you at present. That's good to hear. The lot which is supposed to include a "Starrett micrometer" does not appear to have one -- though I see an old Starrett "speed indicator", which is no practical use to you. I feel better that I didn't miss out on an opportunity so close by. I could literally walk to this seller and pick up the stuff if I won any of the auctions, but why bid on something that may not be compatable with my machine? I don't know enough to know what I'm looking at. Having looked at his auctions -- I would say skip him. He doesn't know what he's selling. He can't provide good enough photos for you to tell (or even me). And, given his shipping charge, I'll bet that he would not allow you to walk over and pick up what you "won". Actually I asked and he said that he would actually prefer in-person pick-ups. Leave him to the old tool collectors, who seem to be his target market. He's located in "Little Italy". It's been some years but I should explore that area again. I knew of a couple of machine shops as well as a place that sold(and cut) scrap metals.(The seller probably work/s at one of those places). Thanks. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#13
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Tool Terms
Ok. So the rings serve to lock the collets into the blocks, which are
held by the vise. I just have to figure out what size of 2 Flute end mills I'll need and how best to "chuck" them.(I'll have to also search for some 1/4" ball-end mills while I'm at it). I'll try it again.. These 5C collets holding the work can be mounted in the chuck or in the spindle with the tool at the conventional location of the tool post. Or I can use the collets(holding the work) inside collet blocks located in the milling attachment with the tool in the chuck or preferrably in an end mill holder in the spindle instead. You can clamp the workpiece in a collet in the square block, clamp the block in the vise on the milling attachment. and mill a flat on the workpiece. You then loosen the vise, rotate the collet block one flat, and mill the next flat. Repeat until you have all four sides. Are there five sided collets?(Everything seems to jump from four to six). Ok. Now I know there are no 5 sided 5C collets. The hexagonal block can be used to make hexagonal shapes (e.g. bolt heads or nuts), or three-sided shapes. In the same way, the square one can be used to make a simple pair of flats, instead of a square, if that is what is needed. I went with square because I assume it would be easier to make a square hole in a Delrin disk to allow it to fit over/on a square rod. This is one of the things which you *need* the MSC catalog for. You could look it up in the index, and turn to the proper page, to at least see what the blocks look like. That is page 1565 in the current "Big Book". The previous page shows individual collets in the 5C size (the ones which fit the blocks), which have hex or square holes to hold workpieces of that shape. You have to step back to page 1562 to find round collets, with differing prices for different grades of collets. The "Import ones should suffice for this type of operation, at least. The 7/16" one goes for $8.45, as do all of the other sizes in that grade. I would have bid over $100 for these but at the time I didn't know if it was the round 5C collets that I needed: An indexing head is more often used on a milling machine than a lathe. Most are too big for your lathe, even in milling machine mode, though some small ones could be adapted. I'll have to search for the smallest one I can find and see what is possible. There are several styles. An alternative name to look under is "dividing head". Yes. In the Grizzly catalog I have there is one, and also indexing rotary tables and chucks. BTW. There is a 3" rotary table(H6195) that has a profile of 1.670".(But it doesn't index). :-( It would be nice to have some sort of low profile, H/V 90 degree tilting, indexing rotary table(with small vice or chuck-like jaws at the perimeter) mounted to the compound slide that would have the ability to extend the cross feed travel to at least half of the swing so one can easily drill or mill opposite sides of a 7" diameter work piece. :-) Actually, a power-feeding assembly option to replace the tailstock might work better than if put on the compound slide.(But that would be some major modification). :-) All of this would entail drilling *from* the head stock. I haven't read anything about that, so I hope that is plausible. Since I'm still a newbie(who hasn't even taken the lathe out of the box yet) I'll have plenty of time before I get to all that. :-) One Ebayer("czodda") has been auctioning a lot of tooling, but can't tell me the size of any of it. I can tell you that the collets shown in that one auction are *not* the 5C size which you would need -- and don't look to be in any condition worth bidding on. There are actually two different sizes there, and neither is of use to you at present. That's good to hear. The lot which is supposed to include a "Starrett micrometer" does not appear to have one -- though I see an old Starrett "speed indicator", which is no practical use to you. I feel better that I didn't miss out on an opportunity so close by. I could literally walk to this seller and pick up the stuff if I won any of the auctions, but why bid on something that may not be compatable with my machine? I don't know enough to know what I'm looking at. Having looked at his auctions -- I would say skip him. He doesn't know what he's selling. He can't provide good enough photos for you to tell (or even me). And, given his shipping charge, I'll bet that he would not allow you to walk over and pick up what you "won". Actually I asked and he said that he would actually prefer in-person pick-ups. Leave him to the old tool collectors, who seem to be his target market. He's located in "Little Italy". It's been some years but I should explore that area again. I knew of a couple of machine shops as well as a place that sold(and cut) scrap metals.(The seller probably work/s at one of those places). As it turns out he is a she. I won a little something and will swing by there to pick it up. Thanks. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Tool Terms
According to :
Ok. So the rings serve to lock the collets into the blocks, which are held by the vise. I just have to figure out what size of 2 Flute end mills I'll need and how best to "chuck" them.(I'll have to also search for some 1/4" ball-end mills while I'm at it). I'll try it again.. These 5C collets holding the work can be mounted in the chuck or in the spindle with the tool at the conventional location of the tool post. I thought that I had posted something in response to the previous one -- but I can't find it in the thread map now, so I guess that it got lost somehow. Anyway -- the 5C collets *cannot* be mounted in *your* lathe's spindle. It is too small. You need at least a 1-3/8" bore through the spindle to accept a 5C collet and drawbar. And -- you could never get a properly sized machine for that up your stairs. So -- you will need to use smaller collets in your spindle -- or get a Bison collet chuck head to put the collets in place of a chuck on the end of your spindle. Or I can use the collets(holding the work) inside collet blocks located in the milling attachment with the tool in the chuck or preferrably in an end mill holder in the spindle instead. With the tool in an end-mill holder -- *not* in the chuck -- whether it is a lathe chuck or a drill chuck. You can clamp the workpiece in a collet in the square block, clamp the block in the vise on the milling attachment. and mill a flat on the workpiece. You then loosen the vise, rotate the collet block one flat, and mill the next flat. Repeat until you have all four sides. Are there five sided collets?(Everything seems to jump from four to six). Ok. Now I know there are no 5 sided 5C collets. And do you know *why*? That was part of what I had typed, and apparently lost somehow. The hexagonal block can be used to make hexagonal shapes (e.g. bolt heads or nuts), or three-sided shapes. In the same way, the square one can be used to make a simple pair of flats, instead of a square, if that is what is needed. I went with square because I assume it would be easier to make a square hole in a Delrin disk to allow it to fit over/on a square rod. This is one of the things which you *need* the MSC catalog for. You could look it up in the index, and turn to the proper page, to at least see what the blocks look like. That is page 1565 in the current "Big Book". The previous page shows individual collets in the 5C size (the ones which fit the blocks), which have hex or square holes to hold workpieces of that shape. You have to step back to page 1562 to find round collets, with differing prices for different grades of collets. The "Import ones should suffice for this type of operation, at least. The 7/16" one goes for $8.45, as do all of the other sizes in that grade. I would have bid over $100 for these but at the time I didn't know if it was the round 5C collets that I needed: All the 5C collets are round on the outside. There are ones with holes to hold hexagonal or square workpieces -- but your workpieces are round, and you are trying to make a square on the one, IIRC. An indexing head is more often used on a milling machine than a lathe. Most are too big for your lathe, even in milling machine mode, though some small ones could be adapted. I'll have to search for the smallest one I can find and see what is possible. There are several styles. An alternative name to look under is "dividing head". Yes. In the Grizzly catalog I have there is one, and also indexing rotary tables and chucks. BTW. There is a 3" rotary table(H6195) that has a profile of 1.670".(But it doesn't index). :-( It -- *could* -- if there are provisions for plates of holes to use in indexing. Some rotary tables have that feature, some don't. It would be nice to have some sort of low profile, H/V 90 degree tilting, indexing rotary table(with small vice or chuck-like jaws at the perimeter) mounted to the compound slide that would have the ability to extend the cross feed travel to at least half of the swing so one can easily drill or mill opposite sides of a 7" diameter work piece. :-) This sounds like something which you will have to *make*. And, I think that you will need bigger machines to make it. Actually, a power-feeding assembly option to replace the tailstock might work better than if put on the compound slide.(But that would be some major modification). :-) Some lathes, such as my 12x24" Clausing, have power cross-feed. And of course, the compound has power axial feed (along the bed), which can be used for some operations other than turning. I particular, the Myford lathes tend to have multiple T-slots along the length of the cross-slide, for mounting workpieces or special tooling directly to the cross-slide. But -- Myfords are from the UK, are quite expensive, and probably too heavy to get up your stairs (though maybe close). All of this would entail drilling *from* the head stock. I haven't read anything about that, so I hope that is plausible. You mean running the drill bit in a holder in the spindle, and moving the workpiece towards it? This is done on the cross-slide T slots (on the Myfords and other machines with that capability), or with a crotch holder in the tailstock to crank the hand-held workpiece into the rotating drill bit. Since I'm still a newbie(who hasn't even taken the lathe out of the box yet) I'll have plenty of time before I get to all that. :-) Take it out *now* and start using it. It will help you answer some of your questions, and refine others before you ask them. [ ... ] The lot which is supposed to include a "Starrett micrometer" does not appear to have one -- though I see an old Starrett "speed indicator", which is no practical use to you. [ ... ] Actually I asked and he said that he would actually prefer in-person pick-ups. Leave him to the old tool collectors, who seem to be his target market. He's located in "Little Italy". It's been some years but I should explore that area again. I knew of a couple of machine shops as well as a place that sold(and cut) scrap metals.(The seller probably work/s at one of those places). As it turns out he is a she. I won a little something and will swing by there to pick it up. Explain to her that what she appears to be calling "Starrett Micrometers" are in reality Starrett "speed indicators". Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#15
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Tool Terms
According to :
Anyway -- the 5C collets *cannot* be mounted in *your* lathe's spindle. It is too small. You need at least a 1-3/8" bore through the spindle to accept a 5C collet and drawbar. And -- you could never get a properly sized machine for that up your stairs. So -- you will need to use smaller collets in your spindle -- or get a Bison collet chuck head to put the collets in place of a chuck on the end of your spindle. Yes, I've seen the Bisons. But you originally recommended the 5C collets, so I assume that is because the size(3/4") I mentioned I wanted to work with would require the 5C type. I recommended the 5C collets because that is the only size in which the collet blocks are made which you would need to accomplish milling a square on a workpiece without an index head. I *know* that they will not fit your lathe directly, and I feel that a Bison collet chuck may not be steady enough on such a small spindle, as it sticks way out where it is more subject to chatter from the spindle flexing. Or I can use the collets(holding the work) inside collet blocks located in the milling attachment with the tool in the chuck or preferrably in an end mill holder in the spindle instead. With the tool in an end-mill holder -- *not* in the chuck -- whether it is a lathe chuck or a drill chuck. I'm going to try this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7592207825 Providing the chuck jaws open at least 2.4 inches. I don't consider this to be any better than the Bison collet chuck in terms of rigidity. And I *think* that the only way to chuck that in your late is with reversed jaws, which produce too little grip for that amount of extension. Funny how "Less then .0002 total run-out" is mentioned, when that really means little on a set up like that. That figure is quite important in a normal spindle nose collet adaptor, but it is meaningless held in a 3-jaw chuck. (You might be able to get away with a 4-jaw chuck, if you take time to carefully center it each time you use it -- but the Bison would at least be more convenient -- and one with the adjust-tru feature should require setting only once. I see that you already have it. At least the price was not too bad. :-) [ ... ] Are there five sided collets?(Everything seems to jump from four to six). Ok. Now I know there are no 5 sided 5C collets. And do you know *why*? That was part of what I had typed, and apparently lost somehow. Hmmm. It definitely didn't show up on Google Groups(or Interbulletin). It must have vanished somewhere in the chain *before* it reached the newsgroups. It may have been in the e-mail which was trying to go to an old and no longer good e-mail address -- which you *still* have in your newsgroup "From: " header. Since I'm still a newbie(who hasn't even taken the lathe out of the box yet) I'll have plenty of time before I get to all that. :-) Take it out *now* and start using it. It will help you answer some of your questions, and refine others before you ask them. With no tooling yet I'd have to wait. I don't want to start this first project, and have to stop and do more research to determine what I am missing so I can continue. You should not start the project with *no* experience. Take it out, set it up, and play with it. Learn what it can do, and what you have to do to make it do what you want. You *will* make mistakes, and it is better to make most of them playing with expendible trial workpieces instead of the serious ones which you are trying to make. Try sub-sets of what you need to do, and this way you can learn more things which you may need to do them. Explain to her that what she appears to be calling "Starrett Micrometers" are in reality Starrett "speed indicators". She didn't seem like the type that you could explain that too. :-) Sigh! BTW. Just to give you an idea of where I'm at. The following is my list of things to get.(At least most of them). The items with question marks are things I haven't decided on yet and still researching. The one's with the asterisks are pretty much decided upon. Tool Post * AXA QC(Wedge Style)) Good -- with the modified compound to adjust the height properly. Tool Holders-For 5/16" shanks(Unless 3/8" is possible) The AXA holders should accept at least 1/2" shanks. 5/8" is for the BXA size of toolpost and holders. 3/4" for the CXA size. I consider 1/2" to be the minimum. 5/16" and 3/8" are too small. * A) Turning holder * B) Facing * C) Boring holder Typically, the turning and facing holders are pretty much the same. The boring ones will have a V bottom groove to hold round shanked boring bars. (And the larger ones will be made to hold even larger boring bars -- I think up to 7/8" for the AXA series. I know that I can hold 1" ones in my BXA holders. * D) Cut-off(Parting) holder Yes. Add in a T-profile paring tool to go in that holder. Cobalt steel. The "Mo-Max brand is what I use. Expensive, but good. * E) Threading(Inside/Outisde) holder Those are the same as the boring/facing holders. (Though the tooling which goes in them is different.) * F) 5C Collet Tool Holder Ideally, not the one which you just won on eBay. For end mills, you are better with Morse taper collets or endmill holders to fit your lathe spindle's taper. For your work holding, the 5C are only for the collet block, and the lathe chucks for what you are turing in the spindle. * G) Morse Taper Tool Holder O.K. As above. * H) DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder? They are made. Look for a Morse taper holder which fits the toolpost. You may have to go to genuine Aloris for this. Make the Morse taper the same as what you have in the tailstock, so you can use the same drill chuck in there. I) Universal Threading & Grooving Tool Holder? Probably better off with carbide insert tooling for threading. You'll need a separate one for internal threading, and you'll need to be more careful of crashes which are easier to create when doing boring or internal threading. Lathe Tools(Indexable where possible) * A) Facing * B) Turning The tools are the same -- other than the angle. Look at the Aloris AXA-16N, which will hold two triangular carbide inserts, one for turning and one for facing in the same holder. I have the BXA equivalent and use it much of the time. Because of the 'N' in the part name, it accepts negative rake insert tooling, which is available with a groove which lets you actually use it as positive rake tooling in the negative rake holder. This gives you six corners which you can use before replacing the insert Rotate it for three, then flip it over. (Assuming that you have not broken the insert with a crash.) * C) Boring(3/8) * D) Threading(Outside) * E) Threading(Inside) Insert tooling for D and E, and maybe for C. Avoid the cheap sets of insert tooling which offer five tools in one set, each at a slightly different angle. The inserts tend to break easily, there is no carbide anvil to support the inserts, and the inserts are more expensive than common industrial ones. * F) Cut-off(Parting)? I've given my advice above with the holder. G) Grooving? You can do some of this with the parting tool, as long as it is not too narrow. H) Chip Breaker? Determined by the grind of the insert -- or the HSS tool bit which you grind yourself. I) Tool ground? You mean HSS (High Speed Steel)? Get some of those for things for which there is no insert tooling available, or when you need especially sharp (good finish on some plastics.) J) Trepanning tool? Special purpose -- and better made by hand from the HSS bits for a given need. K) Fly cutter? For finishing large surfaces with a mill. I don't think that a lathe set up as a mill will be rigid enough for the task. L) Radii Cutter? Do you want to turn balls? If so, then this is nice. But most of them aren't the right size for your machine. M) Rotary Burrs(Shape D & A)? I don't know the shapes by name. But beware that they produce nasty sharp chips. End Mill Holder(For MT3 spindle) Several -- for the different sizes of end mills which you need to use. Milling Tools(Indexable where possible) * 2 Flute End Mill? 2 flute for milling slots, among other things. * 1/4" Ball-End Mill? For special shaping, or half-round bottomed grooves. Face Mill? *Not* with a lathe acting as a milling machine. Those take a *lot* of power. Probably not with *any* milling machine which you can get up to your apartment. Boring head & shank? Again -- better used with a true milling machine, rather than in a lathe. For boring on a lathe, you normally mount the workpiece in a chuck, or on a faceplate, and turn it, while boring. End Mill Grinding Fixture? Do you have a surface grinder? (*Not* a bench grinder.) If not, the fixture won't do you any good. 5C Precision 3-Jaw Chuck? These are small 3-jaw chucks mounted on a 5C collet shank. They are nice for quickly fitting a small 3-jaw chuck to a large lathe spindle. I don't see any benefit to you from one at present. * 5C Collets(round) * 5C Collet Blocks(4 & 6)? Yes -- for milling square or hex shapes. * 5C Collet Chuck Perhaps -- for light work with larger workpieces. 5C Collet stops? Useful if you want to do production which requires a bunch of workpieces all set to the same depth in the collets. Probably won't work well with the collet block. 2 PINION LOW PROFILE BISON 5" 5C COLLET CHUCK? I don't know this one. Unless it is the standard one from Bison. Better to get the one with the adjust-tru feature. This allows you to tune out any remaining error in concentricity. * MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach). ? * Morse Taper Sleeve 3MT to 2MT O.K. * Steady Rest(Micro-Mark OEM) * Follower Rest(Micro-Mark OEM) Good. * Face Plate Does this not come standard with the lathe? The other two *should* come standard with it, but probably don't. * MT2 Live Ball Bearing Center * Drill chuck & Arbor(2MT to 33JT) O.K. * Center Drills #1,2,3,4,5 * T-Slot Cleaners Do you have any T-slots yet? Until you get a milling machine, you probably don't need this -- and if you *do* need it, you need one to fit your T-slots on your mill. They come in different sizes. * Chucking Reamers * 60 Degree Center Reamer Set ??? 5" 4-Jaw Chuck(w/adaptor)? O.K. Large but it should fit the machine. lathe Dog? Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range of sizes which you expect to turn between centers. Milling Attachment? If you can find one for your machine -- or adapt one made for a machine of similar size. Rotary Table? Dividing Head? Index Plates? Once you get a milling machine -- and the machine's size will determine the size of what you want to get. * Micrometer * Telescoping gauges * Run-out indicator Protractor Angle Gauge Set A good bevel protractor should do for most anything which you really are able to machine with your equipment. Depth Gauge Divider Machinists Scriber Trammel This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider. BTW Consider a hermaphrodyte caliper as one of the useful divider class tools. Tapping(Tapper) Wrench? Multiple ones -- for different sizes of taps. Small ones won't hold large taps. Large ones are too difficult to control well to avoid breaking small taps. Die? Not just one. How many threads will you need to cut? One die for each. (Assuming that you can't cut the thread directly on the lathe.) Bench Block? + ? Hand Reamers? Cutting/Tapping fluid? Bandsaw? Bench Grinder? How much will your apartment floor hold? Even with small machines, you're building up a collection of tools there. The bandsaw, and a *good* bench grinder will weigh as much as the lathe, I suspect. Good luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Tool Terms
According to jim rozen :
In article rs.com, DoN. Nichols says... I recommended the 5C collets because that is the only size in which the collet blocks are made which you would need to accomplish milling a square on a workpiece without an index head. As an aside, the following is a very nice project for new machine owners: 3C collet blocks. That sounds like an excellent project. And maybe 3C would even fit his lathe (with a proper spindle nose adaptor). But, IIRC, 3C maxes out at 1/2" maximum grip diameter, which is not large enough for the workpiece, IIRC. Starting with hex, or square CRS stock, one bores out for a 3C collet to fit, including the taper on the working end. Press in a small pin, and fabricate the nut and pin wrench to tighten things up. Of course they should be heat-treated and ground, but for most hobby work simple CRS stock as supplied works just fine. The essence of the project BTW (aside from producing usefull tooling) is learning to indicate and bore the hole and taper accurately with respect to the outer dimensions of the stock. I've still got mine, from my 9" SB model A days. Nice! Thanks, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Tool Terms
I'm going to try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7592207825 Providing the chuck jaws open at least 2.4 inches. I don't consider this to be any better than the Bison collet chuck in terms of rigidity. And I *think* that the only way to chuck that in your late is with reversed jaws, which produce too little grip for that amount of extension. Funny how "Less then .0002 total run-out" is mentioned, when that really means little on a set up like that. That figure is quite important in a normal spindle nose collet adaptor, but it is meaningless held in a 3-jaw chuck. (You might be able to get away with a 4-jaw chuck, if you take time to carefully center it each time you use it -- but the Bison would at least be more convenient -- and one with the adjust-tru feature should require setting only once. I see that you already have it. At least the price was not too bad. :-) Actually, I didn't think I'd win it looking at the ended auctions. I bid low because I figuerd that anything that is supposed to be held in the chuck taht way couldn't be the best solution. Now, I 'm looking at a 5" 4-Jaw, because I still need to be able to turned those 4-1/2" square plate I mentioned. Are there five sided collets?(Everything seems to jump from four to six). Ok. Now I know there are no 5 sided 5C collets. And do you know *why*? That was part of what I had typed, and apparently lost somehow. Here it is: " Picture trying to hold an odd side count object in a vise. The same for a wrench. About the only thing that I know of which commonly has five sides is the fittings on fire hydrants, so normal wrenches won't work on them, and only people with the right special wrench can turn them on or off. :-)" Though I guess it would only be worth it for high production, if one had a collet vise where one of the two jaws were flat and the other angled at 72 degress to clamp the opposite two sides of the collet block it would work. Better yet, an insert on one side with that proper angle would allow use of a normal vise.(If I could draw ASCII and have it come out correctly, I;d illustrate it). For unusual counts, you need a dividing head, or an index head. You should not start the project with *no* experience. Take it out, set it up, and play with it. Learn what it can do, and what you have to do to make it do what you want. You *will* make mistakes, and it is better to make most of them playing with expendible trial workpieces instead of the serious ones which you are trying to make. Try sub-sets of what you need to do, and this way you can learn more things which you may need to do them. Perhaps I could use this time working on the lathes tolerance/accuracy (Of course I'd have to get those gauges in a hurry). Tool Post * AXA QC(Wedge Style)) Good -- with the modified compound to adjust the height properly. ??? I was just about to bid on this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7593068191 But I'm not sure about the "modified compound" you mention. Tool Holders-For 5/16" shanks(Unless 3/8" is possible) The AXA holders should accept at least 1/2" shanks. 5/8" is for the BXA size of toolpost and holders. 3/4" for the CXA size. I consider 1/2" to be the minimum. 5/16" and 3/8" are too small. Ok. I was stuck on 5/16" because that is what they say the size is for the OEM tool post of my lathe(which I will be getting rid of). I guess it's besst to shoot for 1/2".(5/8 & 3/4" is the sizes for the boring tool holder). So here goes.(Not taking into account any tool holders that may already come with the tool post I buy). A) Turning/Facing/ Threading(outside)/Threading(inside) B) Boring C) Cut-off/ T-profileparing * F) 5C Collet Tool Holder Ideally, not the one which you just won on eBay. For end mills, you are better with Morse taper collets or endmill holders to fit your lathe spindle's taper. So I'd have to decide wether or not to stick with end mill holders or get another set of collets(3C) for the spindle. Hmmm. The end mill holders would seem to be more reliable, but the 3C would allow me to work hold.(I did win that 5C collet chuck on eBay that I may be able to use for light work at least). I'm also investigating expanding and step collets. Sigh. BTW. "F) 5C Collet Tool Holder" was a referrence to a tool holder for the tool post. (Perhaps I can make a "collet block" tool holder for indexing). :-) For your work holding, the 5C are only for the collet block, and the lathe chucks for what you are turing in the spindle. * G) Morse Taper Tool Holder O.K. As above. "G) Morse Taper Tool Holder" also refers to a *tool post* tool holder. * H) DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder? They are made. Look for a Morse taper holder which fits the toolpost. You may have to go to genuine Aloris for this. Make the Morse taper the same as what you have in the tailstock, so you can use the same drill chuck in there. Ok. Let's see. No "DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder".All I need is the Morse Taper #2 toll holder to allow me to use the center and regular drills that I'd normally use on the tail stock, correct? I) Universal Threading & Grooving Tool Holder? Probably better off with carbide insert tooling for threading. You'll need a separate one for internal threading, and you'll need to be more careful of crashes which are easier to create when doing boring or internal threading. Crashes? Ok. Let's see. Forget the Universal and just use a thick parting tool in the cut-off tool holder for grooving, correct? Avoid the cheap sets of insert tooling which offer five tools in one set, each at a slightly different angle. The inserts tend to break easily, there is no carbide anvil to support the inserts, and the inserts are more expensive than common industrial ones. I'm glad you mentioned that. I've been eye-balling "cheap" sets of insert tooling on eBay. H) Chip Breaker? Determined by the grind of the insert -- or the HSS tool bit which you grind yourself. I still don't know what a "chip breaker" is. I) Tool ground? You mean HSS (High Speed Steel)? Get some of those for things for which there is no insert tooling available, or when you need especially sharp (good finish on some plastics.) Will do. J) Trepanning tool? Special purpose -- and better made by hand from the HSS bits for a given need. I didn't know what this was either until you mentioned it when we were discussing making a circular "trench" in stainless steel.. K) Fly cutter? For finishing large surfaces with a mill. I don't think that a lathe set up as a mill will be rigid enough for the task. That's what I was thinking. L) Radii Cutter? Do you want to turn balls? If so, then this is nice. But most of them aren't the right size for your machine. If I could find it, it would probably be too expensive. And it's probably better to just but those ball knobs than to try to turn 303 stainless to get them. M) Rotary Burrs(Shape D & A)? I don't know the shapes by name. But beware that they produce nasty sharp chips. D is a ball end, and A is a cylindrical"no cut" end.(But I'mthinking I won't need these). End Mill Grinding Fixture? Do you have a surface grinder? (*Not* a bench grinder.) If not, the fixture won't do you any good. The 2 Flute end mill will be indexable, but I'd still have to figure out a way to sharpen the ball end mill. 5C Precision 3-Jaw Chuck? These are small 3-jaw chucks mounted on a 5C collet shank. They are nice for quickly fitting a small 3-jaw chuck to a large lathe spindle. I don't see any benefit to you from one at present. Since it doesn't index, I don't either. 5C Collet stops? Useful if you want to do production which requires a bunch of workpieces all set to the same depth in the collets. Probably won't work well with the collet block. So I guess I won't really have a use for collet stops.(Even if I get another set of collets(3C) for work holding in the spindle). 2 PINION LOW PROFILE BISON 5" 5C COLLET CHUCK? I don't know this one. Unless it is the standard one from Bison. Better to get the one with the adjust-tru feature. This allows you to tune out any remaining error in concentricity. * MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach). ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7591760352 I was discussin it in another thread.("Using A Rotabroach Cutter In A Lathe") * Steady Rest(Micro-Mark OEM) * Follower Rest(Micro-Mark OEM) Good. * Face Plate Does this not come standard with the lathe? The other two *should* come standard with it, but probably don't. You mean the rests? Outside of change gears, this lathe(which I think is the costliest of it's type) came with very little.(I guess they figured that the extra 2 inches in length and the digital read-outs were enough). * Chucking Reamers * 60 Degree Center Reamer Set ??? I'll hold off on the chucking reamers. I have to learn more about manual reaming anyway so I can make those tin holes in little rods. And the 60 degree center reamer set was for when I was thinking of making a tool holder that could be centered by having a rear hole in the smae shape as the tail stock center. lathe Dog? Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range of sizes which you expect to turn between centers. And this is the one commonly mentioned item that I've not yet read about a purpose for. Milling Attachment? If you can find one for your machine -- or adapt one made for a machine of similar size. I'm told that the OEM isn't worth it and that it is best to just make my own attachment with an angle plate of some sort. Rotary Table? Dividing Head? Index Plates? Once you get a milling machine -- and the machine's size will determine the size of what you want to get. Actually, I've been studying these items because I've been working on designing a small indexing jig for drilling/slotting plastic(Delrin), and I'll probably pick up some index plates to use in it's design. * Micrometer * Telescoping gauges * Run-out indicator Protractor Angle Gauge Set A good bevel protractor should do for most anything which you really are able to machine with your equipment. Actually, I already have one of those, which magnifier, blades, ect.. Depth Gauge Divider Machinists Scriber Trammel This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider. Actually, the items I was looking at int he HF catalog are quite small. BTW Consider a hermaphrodyte caliper as one of the useful divider class tools. Ok. Thanks. Tapping(Tapper) Wrench? Multiple ones -- for different sizes of taps. Small ones won't hold large taps. Large ones are too difficult to control well to avoid breaking small taps. Die? Not just one. How many threads will you need to cut? One die for each. (Assuming that you can't cut the thread directly on the lathe.) I've been looking at sets. All I need to make are standard holes from 1/8" to the larger bolt sizes. I still need to find a site that deals with the nomenclature. Bench Block? + ? Hand Reamers? Cutting/Tapping fluid? Bandsaw? Bench Grinder? How much will your apartment floor hold? Even with small machines, you're building up a collection of tools there. The bandsaw, and a *good* bench grinder will weigh as much as the lathe, I suspect. Well, the floor can support me and I weight well over three times what the basic lathe weighs.(And well over twice it's length). :-) The basic machine is only 90lbs(which I think is lighter than most in it's class). So much for that "more massive bedway" statement in their advertisment.(They do call it's .47 hp motor powerful). Anyway, The bandsaw would be for cutting that 1/4" thick stainless I mentioned. Thanks a lot. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#18
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Tool Terms
According to :
I'm going to skip over some of this, because I am way behind in newsreading, and I expect to be away form home helping a friend replace the spindle in his lathe most of tomorrow, which would make things worse. I'll answer this one, and skip over whatever other ones you post. [ ... ] I see that you already have it. At least the price was not too bad. :-) Actually, I didn't think I'd win it looking at the ended auctions. I bid low because I figuerd that anything that is supposed to be held in the chuck taht way couldn't be the best solution. Now, I 'm looking at a 5" 4-Jaw, because I still need to be able to turned those 4-1/2" square plate I mentioned. O.K. [ ... ] You should not start the project with *no* experience. Take it out, set it up, and play with it. Learn what it can do, and what you have to do to make it do what you want. You *will* make mistakes, and it is better to make most of them playing with expendible trial workpieces instead of the serious ones which you are trying to make. Try sub-sets of what you need to do, and this way you can learn more things which you may need to do them. Perhaps I could use this time working on the lathes tolerance/accuracy (Of course I'd have to get those gauges in a hurry). You could spend part of the time doing the traditional Asian" machine tool mantra" of taking it apart, stoning or filing burrs off of sliding parts, replacing the screws with ones of good metal and the like. This will make it a better machine. The sort of thing which the factory *should* have done, but the Asian factories typically do not. Tool Post * AXA QC(Wedge Style)) Good -- with the modified compound to adjust the height properly. ??? I was just about to bid on this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7593068191 But I'm not sure about the "modified compound" you mention. The "modified compound" was what the web site you pointed me to was offering to allow the use of an AXA sized toolpost on this small a lathe. With the standard compound, the toolpost will be too high, and you won't be able to adjust the tools to centerline. [ ... ] So here goes.(Not taking into account any tool holders that may already come with the tool post I buy). I'll be skipping over most of this. [ ... ] Ideally, not the one which you just won on eBay. For end mills, you are better with Morse taper collets or endmill holders to fit your lathe spindle's taper. So I'd have to decide wether or not to stick with end mill holders or get another set of collets(3C) for the spindle. Hmmm. The end mill holders would seem to be more reliable, but the 3C would allow me to work hold.(I did win that 5C collet chuck on eBay that I may be able to use for light work at least). Yes! I'm also investigating expanding and step collets. Sigh. The expanding ones are mostly available in watchmaker's lathe sizes. The same for pre-made step collets, though there are soft collets designed to be machined to make custom sized collets. But these latter are typically 5C size -- so again you are out of luck. BTW. "F) 5C Collet Tool Holder" was a referrence to a tool holder for the tool post. I've not seen a 5C tool holder for even a BXA sized toolpost, let alone a AXA sized one. (Perhaps I can make a "collet block" tool holder for indexing). :-) Yes -- that would be a good task to get started learning your lathe and its capabilities. For your work holding, the 5C are only for the collet block, and the lathe chucks for what you are turning in the spindle. * G) Morse Taper Tool Holder O.K. As above. "G) Morse Taper Tool Holder" also refers to a *tool post* tool holder. [ ... ] Ok. Let's see. No "DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder".All I need is the Morse Taper #2 toll holder to allow me to use the center and regular drills that I'd normally use on the tail stock, correct? Yes -- with the problem of getting lateral centering each time you use them which I mentioned before. I) Universal Threading & Grooving Tool Holder? Probably better off with carbide insert tooling for threading. You'll need a separate one for internal threading, and you'll need to be more careful of crashes which are easier to create when doing boring or internal threading. Crashes? Unintended contact of moving parts with stationary parts of the lathe -- with the workpiece involved or not involved. An example is when the carriage moves close enough to the chuck so it gets hit by the jaws. Sometimes, it is just harmless nicks, sometimes it is serious damage to the machine. And sometimes, it is simply feeding too aggressively for the insert tooling and thus breaking the tooling. The problems with inside threading and boring is that you can't see the cutting edge during most of the task, so you have a greater chance of it hitting something which you don't want. Ok. Let's see. Forget the Universal and just use a thick parting tool in the cut-off tool holder for grooving, correct? A thin one can be used in multiple passes, and is less load on the machine's motor. Avoid the cheap sets of insert tooling which offer five tools in one set, each at a slightly different angle. The inserts tend to break easily, there is no carbide anvil to support the inserts, and the inserts are more expensive than common industrial ones. I'm glad you mentioned that. I've been eye-balling "cheap" sets of insert tooling on eBay. I was afraid of that. H) Chip Breaker? Determined by the grind of the insert -- or the HSS tool bit which you grind yourself. I still don't know what a "chip breaker" is. Oh -- I thought that you were asking whether you should get one. It is a geometry in the insert or toolbit which causes the chips to curl more than they can tolerate, so they break off frequently. Otherwise, you can wind up with long spiral chips, which look pretty, but which can get tangled up in the spinning workpiece and the chuck. And they often have rather nasty sharp edges. Your stainless steel is probably one of the flavors which will make the nasty ones. [ ... ] J) Trepanning tool? Special purpose -- and better made by hand from the HSS bits for a given need. I didn't know what this was either until you mentioned it when we were discussing making a circular "trench" in stainless steel.. O.K. [ ... ] L) Radii Cutter? Do you want to turn balls? If so, then this is nice. But most of them aren't the right size for your machine. If I could find it, it would probably be too expensive. And it's probably better to just but those ball knobs than to try to turn 303 stainless to get them. The good ones are too big for your machine. And will probably put too much of a load on it. And stainless would be a real pain to make the balls from. Pay someone else who does it for a living, and use your time for something easier. [ ... ] End Mill Grinding Fixture? Do you have a surface grinder? (*Not* a bench grinder.) If not, the fixture won't do you any good. The 2 Flute end mill will be indexable, but I'd still have to figure out a way to sharpen the ball end mill. An end mill grinding fixture is only for the square ended end mills. For a ball end mill, you will need a serious tool and cutter grinder, and quite a bit of time to learn to use it properly. I don't have one, and have never had a chance to learn one. It will be a lot cheaper to just buy new ball end mills as needed -- or if you are dulling them a lot, find a service which will sharpen them for you. [ ... ] * MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach). ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7591760352 I was discussin it in another thread.("Using A Rotabroach Cutter In A Lathe") *Please* -- when you post eBay auctions, just post the auction number (7591760352 in the above), rather than the whole URL. That is all that *I* use, and nobody else seems to be following this thread any more. Did you notice that this one is in England? The currency exchange can be a pain, and shipping can take forever. It looks interesting -- though it is probably made for a mag base drill, not a lathe. * Steady Rest(Micro-Mark OEM) * Follower Rest(Micro-Mark OEM) Good. * Face Plate Does this not come standard with the lathe? The other two *should* come standard with it, but probably don't. You mean the rests? The face plate should come standard with the lathe. The steady and follower rests will have to come from the importer (Micro-Mark in this case) as they don't cross over to other machines very well. Outside of change gears, this lathe(which I think is the costliest of it's type) came with very little.(I guess they figured that the extra 2 inches in length and the digital read-outs were enough). :-) [ ... ] And the 60 degree center reamer set was for when I was thinking of making a tool holder that could be centered by having a rear hole in the smae shape as the tail stock center. That is the function normally performed by the center drills. (Also listed as drill and countersink in the catalogs.) That reamer may be needed for precision center holes when working on a precision grinder, but not for normal lathe work. lathe Dog? Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range of sizes which you expect to turn between centers. And this is the one commonly mentioned item that I've not yet read about a purpose for. O.K. Think of a workpiece held between centers (a ball bearing live center in the tailstock, and a solid center in the headstock). This holds the workpiece perfectly on center -- but what turns the workpiece. The surface area of contact between the headstock center and the workpiece is too small to put any significant torque into it. A lathe dog has a hole which slips over the workpiece, with a setscrew to clamp it to the workpiece. The dog typically has a bent tail which engages a slot in the driver faceplate. Some have straight tails, and are driven by a bolt run through the faceplate and held by a nut. [ ... ] Rotary Table? Dividing Head? Index Plates? Once you get a milling machine -- and the machine's size will determine the size of what you want to get. Actually, I've been studying these items because I've been working on designing a small indexing jig for drilling/slotting plastic(Delrin), and I'll probably pick up some index plates to use in it's design. Note that the typical index plates are designed for different gear ratios on different index heads. Mine is a 40:1 ratio, some are 20:1, and some are 90:1. You need to match the index plates to whatever gearing is present in the index head which you buy or make. [ ... ] A good bevel protractor should do for most anything which you really are able to machine with your equipment. Actually, I already have one of those, which magnifier, blades, ect.. O.K. That should suffice. [ ... ] Trammel This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider. Actually, the items I was looking at int he HF catalog are quite small. Hmm ... normally a trammel is designed to take the place of a compass or dividers where a standard design is too large to be easy to use. There are trammel point sets designed to clamp onto a standard yardstick for a cheap way to do it. I have a nice Starrett one with a spare bar to allow handling a radius of up to 18", IIRC. [ ... ] Die? Not just one. How many threads will you need to cut? One die for each. (Assuming that you can't cut the thread directly on the lathe.) I've been looking at sets. All I need to make are standard holes from 1/8" to the larger bolt sizes. I still need to find a site that deals with the nomenclature. Beware of carbon steel dies. They are too brittle, and will break or will chip teeth. You want HSS taps and or dies. The dies are only needed for making external threads, which you should be able to do on the lathe. The taps are more useful to you because internal threading on a lathe of the smaller sizes is quite difficult. The dies can be used to smooth down a thread which was cut just a little oversized. Bench Block? + ? Hand Reamers? Cutting/Tapping fluid? Bandsaw? Bench Grinder? How much will your apartment floor hold? Even with small machines, you're building up a collection of tools there. The bandsaw, and a *good* bench grinder will weigh as much as the lathe, I suspect. Well, the floor can support me and I weight well over three times what the basic lathe weighs.(And well over twice it's length). :-) But the bandsaw and the bench grinder are of similar weight to your lathe -- or heavier. The basic machine is only 90lbs(which I think is lighter than most in it's class). So much for that "more massive bedway" statement in their advertisment.(They do call it's .47 hp motor powerful). :-) Anyway, The bandsaw would be for cutting that 1/4" thick stainless I mentioned. So you would need a vertical bandsaw for that. The horizontal ones are good for cutting overlength stock to a reasonable length for what you intend to do with it. And a vertical bandsaw which will run at speeds appropriate for stainless will be big and heavy. Proably 600 pounds or so, at a rough guess. Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#19
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Tool Terms
You could spend part of the time doing the traditional Asian"
machine tool mantra" of taking it apart, stoning or filing burrs off of sliding parts, replacing the screws with ones of good metal and the like. This will make it a better machine. The sort of thing which the factory *should* have done, but the Asian factories typically do not. Yes. I'll be following the advice at the mini-lathe pages. The "modified compound" was what the web site you pointed me to was offering to allow the use of an AXA sized toolpost on this small a lathe. With the standard compound, the toolpost will be too high, and you won't be able to adjust the tools to centerline. Ok. There are several sellers of this tool post/holder set on Ebay. And it has to be "milled to fit". :-( Perhaps I should hold off on the tool post. BTW. I found the AXA-16N in the MSC catolog(for $152.25). So I'd have to decide wether or not to stick with end mill holders or get another set of collets(3C) for the spindle. Hmmm. The end mill holders would seem to be more reliable, but the 3C would allow me to work hold.(I did win that 5C collet chuck on eBay that I may be able to use for light work at least). Yes! Hmmm. Ebay: 7593078186 (Perhaps I can make a "collet block" tool holder for indexing). :-) Yes -- that would be a good task to get started learning your lathe and its capabilities. It's limitations make me wonder if I should bother getting precision 5C collets or just regular 5C collets.(Even after a tune up). Ok. Let's see. No "DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder".All I need is the Morse Taper #2 toll holder to allow me to use the center and regular drills that I'd normally use on the tail stock, correct? Yes -- with the problem of getting lateral centering each time you use them which I mentioned before. I'd like to mention that reamers, taps, ect. can also be put into that holder. I still don't know what a "chip breaker" is. Oh -- I thought that you were asking whether you should get one. It is a geometry in the insert or toolbit which causes the chips to curl more than they can tolerate, so they break off frequently. Otherwise, you can wind up with long spiral chips, which look pretty, but which can get tangled up in the spinning workpiece and the chuck. And they often have rather nasty sharp edges. Your stainless steel is probably one of the flavors which will make the nasty ones. I'll also have to come up with a good system for waste disposal. An end mill grinding fixture is only for the square ended end mills. For a ball end mill, you will need a serious tool and cutter grinder, and quite a bit of time to learn to use it properly. I don't have one, and have never had a chance to learn one. It will be a lot cheaper to just buy new ball end mills as needed -- or if you are dulling them a lot, find a service which will sharpen them for you. Good. One less worry. BTW, the guide in the MSC catalog points to 3 flute end mills as the best choice for what I want to do with stainless steel. I guess that I can plunge jussst about any 1/4" ball-end mill into Delrin. But the depth would have to be consistent between holes. Which reminds me, I also need to get a carriage stop. * MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach). ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7591760352 I was discussin it in another thread.("Using A Rotabroach Cutter In A Lathe") *Please* -- when you post eBay auctions, just post the auction number (7591760352 in the above), rather than the whole URL. That is all that *I* use, and nobody else seems to be following this thread any more. Did you notice that this one is in England? The currency exchange can be a pain, and shipping can take forever. Yes, I noticed. But there doesn't seem to be another supplier. It looks interesting -- though it is probably made for a mag base drill, not a lathe. I assume you mean the cutter portion and not the shank. * Steady Rest(Micro-Mark OEM) * Follower Rest(Micro-Mark OEM) Good. * Face Plate Does this not come standard with the lathe? The other two *should* come standard with it, but probably don't. You mean the rests? The face plate should come standard with the lathe. The steady and follower rests will have to come from the importer (Micro-Mark in this case) as they don't cross over to other machines very well. Yes. I'll be getting only the items that I have to get from Micro-Mark. And the 60 degree center reamer set was for when I was thinking of making a tool holder that could be centered by having a rear hole in the smae shape as the tail stock center. That is the function normally performed by the center drills. (Also listed as drill and countersink in the catalogs.) That reamer may be needed for precision center holes when working on a precision grinder, but not for normal lathe work. Ok. I'll just stick with getting over/under hand reamers where needed.(And just line the center drill up with the tail stock center). lathe Dog? Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range of sizes which you expect to turn between centers. And this is the one commonly mentioned item that I've not yet read about a purpose for. O.K. Think of a workpiece held between centers (a ball bearing live center in the tailstock, and a solid center in the headstock). This holds the workpiece perfectly on center -- but what turns the workpiece. The surface area of contact between the headstock center and the workpiece is too small to put any significant torque into it. A lathe dog has a hole which slips over the workpiece, with a setscrew to clamp it to the workpiece. The dog typically has a bent tail which engages a slot in the driver faceplate. Some have straight tails, and are driven by a bolt run through the faceplate and held by a nut. Ok. I assume that each will encompass a small range of diameters so I won't have to buy one for every 1/16" of an inch. :-) Rotary Table? Dividing Head? Index Plates? Once you get a milling machine -- and the machine's size will determine the size of what you want to get. Actually, I've been studying these items because I've been working on designing a small indexing jig for drilling/slotting plastic(Delrin), and I'll probably pick up some index plates to use in it's design. Note that the typical index plates are designed for different gear ratios on different index heads. Mine is a 40:1 ratio, some are 20:1, and some are 90:1. You need to match the index plates to whatever gearing is present in the index head which you buy or make. My idea is actually a little different. Basically all I need is a plate with 36 equally spaced holes and another with 10 holes. Actually it probably would be best to just make what I need.(The only other end mills I'll need will be for gear cutting). BTW. Since it was cheap and I'm getting a lot of other stuff from the seller, I bought a little 5C spin index to experiment with.(#) And as far as milling machines go. I was going to get the Micro-Mark cousin to my lathe, but I've seen too many of them show up on eBay broken.(So I'll wait). Trammel This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider. Actually, the items I was looking at int he HF catalog are quite small. Hmm ... normally a trammel is designed to take the place of a compass or dividers where a standard design is too large to be easy to use. There are trammel point sets designed to clamp onto a standard yardstick for a cheap way to do it. I have a nice Starrett one with a spare bar to allow handling a radius of up to 18", IIRC. I'll be using a ruler. :-) Die? Not just one. How many threads will you need to cut? One die for each. (Assuming that you can't cut the thread directly on the lathe.) I've been looking at sets. All I need to make are standard holes from 1/8" to the larger bolt sizes. I still need to find a site that deals with the nomenclature. Beware of carbon steel dies. They are too brittle, and will break or will chip teeth. You want HSS taps and or dies. The dies are only needed for making external threads, which you should be able to do on the lathe. The taps are more useful to you because internal threading on a lathe of the smaller sizes is quite difficult. I have still not figured out the corresponding tap diameters for those numbers under 1/4". Also, I'm still keeping my eyes open for a good bench block.(They seem to range from just over 2 inches to jsut over 4 inches). The dies can be used to smooth down a thread which was cut just a little oversized. Ok. But I guess that I wouldn't *need* them if I cut the thread correctly. Bench Block? + ? Hand Reamers? Cutting/Tapping fluid? Bandsaw? Bench Grinder? How much will your apartment floor hold? Even with small machines, you're building up a collection of tools there. The bandsaw, and a *good* bench grinder will weigh as much as the lathe, I suspect. Well, the floor can support me and I weight well over three times what the basic lathe weighs.(And well over twice it's length). :-) But the bandsaw and the bench grinder are of similar weight to your lathe -- or heavier. The basic machine is only 90lbs(which I think is lighter than most in it's class). So much for that "more massive bedway" statement in their advertisment.(They do call it's .47 hp motor powerful). :-) Anyway, The bandsaw would be for cutting that 1/4" thick stainless I mentioned. So you would need a vertical bandsaw for that. The horizontal ones are good for cutting overlength stock to a reasonable length for what you intend to do with it. And a vertical bandsaw which will run at speeds appropriate for stainless will be big and heavy. Proably 600 pounds or so, at a rough guess. 600?!? What about 4" long cuts through 1/16" thick stainless steel? Thanks a lot. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#20
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Tool Terms
According to :
O.K. The first of the ones which I got also as e-mail. *Please* don't send me e-mail copies of your postings. Especially so, since the "From: " address is bogus, so a reply would be wasting my time. You could spend part of the time doing the traditional Asian" machine tool mantra" of taking it apart, stoning or filing burrs off of sliding parts, replacing the screws with ones of good metal and the like. This will make it a better machine. The sort of thing which the factory *should* have done, but the Asian factories typically do not. Yes. I'll be following the advice at the mini-lathe pages. *Now*! The "modified compound" was what the web site you pointed me to was offering to allow the use of an AXA sized toolpost on this small a lathe. With the standard compound, the toolpost will be too high, and you won't be able to adjust the tools to centerline. Ok. There are several sellers of this tool post/holder set on Ebay. And it has to be "milled to fit". :-( Perhaps I should hold off on the tool post. BTW. I found the AXA-16N in the MSC catolog(for $152.25). No -- the plate which slides into the T-slot on the compound has to be milled to fit. You don't *have* a T-slot on that lathe, unlike most larger (and some smaller) lathes. So, you unscrew the center rod from the T-head blank, and screw it into the threaded hole in the top of the *modified* compound which you purchase. There *may* be a different center rod, which should be part of what comes with the modified compound. So I'd have to decide wether or not to stick with end mill holders or get another set of collets(3C) for the spindle. Hmmm. The end mill holders would seem to be more reliable, but the 3C would allow me to work hold.(I did win that 5C collet chuck on eBay that I may be able to use for light work at least). Yes! Hmmm. Ebay: 7593078186 Hmm ... you note that it is intended to fit a 5C lathe spindle socket? And the only way *you* can provide a 5C socket is with this thing which you already got from eBay. And the only way to hold *that* is in a three-jaw or 4-jaw chuck on the lathe's spindle. There seems to be little point to getting a chuck to hold in a chuck via an adaptor. :-) Granted, people have held much smaller lathe chucks for tiny workpieces in gigantic lathe chucks, but the size of *this* chuck is one which is probably already available for your lathe spindle. I have one of those, which I use sometimes when the lathe is set up for collets, and I want to work on a small workpiece and don't want to heave around the heavy larger chucks for my lathe. But mine is set up for 5C collets. Now -- you *could* use this in the spin indexer which you mention somewhere below (from what I remember from reading the e-mail earlier in the day). But that spin indexer is probably not as small as you think it is. :-) (Perhaps I can make a "collet block" tool holder for indexing). :-) Yes -- that would be a good task to get started learning your lathe and its capabilities. It's limitations make me wonder if I should bother getting precision 5C collets or just regular 5C collets.(Even after a tune up). Regular for that. Probably regular for whatever you're going to be doing. Save on buying the good ones until you have a machine which can benefit from them. Ok. Let's see. No "DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder".All I need is the Morse Taper #2 toll holder to allow me to use the center and regular drills that I'd normally use on the tail stock, correct? Yes -- with the problem of getting lateral centering each time you use them which I mentioned before. I'd like to mention that reamers, taps, ect. can also be put into that holder. They can. Taps, under power, are asking for trouble. I tap under power in my lathe, but: 1) It has a bed turret, so the tool holders are always on center. 2) I have some releasing tap holders to mount in that turret. When the tap reaches a pre-set depth, it pulls part of the holder to release the coupling to the rigidly mounted part in the turret. This allows the tap and part of the holder to spin freely until I can stop and reverse the spindle to back the tap out of the just made threads. You don't have the releasing tap holders, and I don't think that your spindle can be run at reasonable speeds and torque for this -- depending on the size of the tap, of course. I still don't know what a "chip breaker" is. Oh -- I thought that you were asking whether you should get one. It is a geometry in the insert or toolbit which causes the chips to curl more than they can tolerate, so they break off frequently. Otherwise, you can wind up with long spiral chips, which look pretty, but which can get tangled up in the spinning workpiece and the chuck. And they often have rather nasty sharp edges. Your stainless steel is probably one of the flavors which will make the nasty ones. I'll also have to come up with a good system for waste disposal. Yes. You may have the trash pickup people really mad at you, and you *may* be violating some ordinance where you live if you toss metal turnings into the general trash. An end mill grinding fixture is only for the square ended end mills. For a ball end mill, you will need a serious tool and cutter grinder, and quite a bit of time to learn to use it properly. I don't have one, and have never had a chance to learn one. It will be a lot cheaper to just buy new ball end mills as needed -- or if you are dulling them a lot, find a service which will sharpen them for you. Good. One less worry. BTW, the guide in the MSC catalog points to 3 flute end mills as the best choice for what I want to do with stainless steel. O.K. Two-flute or three-flute plunge fairly nicely though either may take more power than you have in stainless depending on the diameter, so you may need to pre-drill the holes to depth at a smaller diameter first. I guess that I can plunge jussst about any 1/4" ball-end mill into Delrin. But the depth would have to be consistent between holes. Which reminds me, I also need to get a carriage stop. Yes. * MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach). ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7591760352 I was discussin it in another thread.("Using A Rotabroach Cutter In A Lathe") *Please* -- when you post eBay auctions, just post the auction number (7591760352 in the above), rather than the whole URL. That is all that *I* use, and nobody else seems to be following this thread any more. Did you notice that this one is in England? The currency exchange can be a pain, and shipping can take forever. Yes, I noticed. But there doesn't seem to be another supplier. It looks interesting -- though it is probably made for a mag base drill, not a lathe. I assume you mean the cutter portion and not the shank. I mean the shank, which is a Morse taper to fit the spindle in the mag base drill (or at least in *some* mag base drills), and the other end is designed to hold the Rotabroach. Yes -- it can be used to fit a Rotabroach to a lathe spindle, though I'm not sure about the torque available from your lathe spindle for running a Rotabroach in stainless steel. * Steady Rest(Micro-Mark OEM) * Follower Rest(Micro-Mark OEM) Good. * Face Plate Does this not come standard with the lathe? The other two *should* come standard with it, but probably don't. You mean the rests? The face plate should come standard with the lathe. The steady and follower rests will have to come from the importer (Micro-Mark in this case) as they don't cross over to other machines very well. Yes. I'll be getting only the items that I have to get from Micro-Mark. O.K. And the 60 degree center reamer set was for when I was thinking of making a tool holder that could be centered by having a rear hole in the smae shape as the tail stock center. That is the function normally performed by the center drills. (Also listed as drill and countersink in the catalogs.) That reamer may be needed for precision center holes when working on a precision grinder, but not for normal lathe work. Ok. I'll just stick with getting over/under hand reamers where needed.(And just line the center drill up with the tail stock center). Individual reamers as you need them -- unless you luck into a nice price on eBay -- and can be sure that they are in good condition. *Don't* bid on a batch of loose reamers. They have almost certainly been beating against each other and have dulled the edges. If they are in individual tubes, or in a roll-up tool pouch, the chances are better. And *never* run a reamer backwards in the hole. It breaks down the edges very quickly. lathe Dog? Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range of sizes which you expect to turn between centers. And this is the one commonly mentioned item that I've not yet read about a purpose for. O.K. Think of a workpiece held between centers (a ball bearing live center in the tailstock, and a solid center in the headstock). This holds the workpiece perfectly on center -- but what turns the workpiece. The surface area of contact between the headstock center and the workpiece is too small to put any significant torque into it. A lathe dog has a hole which slips over the workpiece, with a setscrew to clamp it to the workpiece. The dog typically has a bent tail which engages a slot in the driver faceplate. Some have straight tails, and are driven by a bolt run through the faceplate and held by a nut. Ok. I assume that each will encompass a small range of diameters so I won't have to buy one for every 1/16" of an inch. :-) Correct. The range is limited in part by the length of the screw which grips the workpiece -- though there are other thing which also play a role in deciding. Rotary Table? Dividing Head? Index Plates? Once you get a milling machine -- and the machine's size will determine the size of what you want to get. Actually, I've been studying these items because I've been working on designing a small indexing jig for drilling/slotting plastic(Delrin), and I'll probably pick up some index plates to use in it's design. Note that the typical index plates are designed for different gear ratios on different index heads. Mine is a 40:1 ratio, some are 20:1, and some are 90:1. You need to match the index plates to whatever gearing is present in the index head which you buy or make. My idea is actually a little different. Basically all I need is a plate with 36 equally spaced holes and another with 10 holes. Actually it probably would be best to just make what I need.(The only other end mills I'll need will be for gear cutting). Hmm ... 36 and 10. How about 36 and 40? The index head for the Emco-Maier C5 mill (not to be confused with the 5C collet size) has those two, plus two other counts -- all build into the one fixture. You simply shift the spring-loaded pin from one threaded hole to another to select the number of positions available. And even the really tiny index head for the Unimat SL-1000 (long out of production) had available four index hubs with those four hole counts. But they typically came with only the 36 hole one, and you had to buy the others as accessories. You'll have to look on eBay for these, and beware that the pricing on the Unimat stuff has started into "collector's item" range. The only thing found on eBay at the moment with a search on "emco index head" is: 7594760412 which is probably too big for your purpose, but which is a very nice one, with a rather unusual 4-jaw universal chuck -- that is, the jaws move inward at the same rate, just like a 3-jaw. That might be very nice for mounting on your lathe for turning truly square plates -- except that I don't see the outside grip jaws for it. BTW. Since it was cheap and I'm getting a lot of other stuff from the seller, I bought a little 5C spin index to experiment with.(#) O.K. You may find it larger than you think. :-) And as far as milling machines go. I was going to get the Micro-Mark cousin to my lathe, but I've seen too many of them show up on eBay broken.(So I'll wait). The plastic gears, I suspect. I've seen lots of postings about those giving way in some of the import milling machines. Trammel This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider. Actually, the items I was looking at int he HF catalog are quite small. Hmm ... normally a trammel is designed to take the place of a compass or dividers where a standard design is too large to be easy to use. There are trammel point sets designed to clamp onto a standard yardstick for a cheap way to do it. I have a nice Starrett one with a spare bar to allow handling a radius of up to 18", IIRC. I'll be using a ruler. :-) For scribing a circle? [ ... ] Beware of carbon steel dies. They are too brittle, and will break or will chip teeth. You want HSS taps and or dies. The dies are only needed for making external threads, which you should be able to do on the lathe. The taps are more useful to you because internal threading on a lathe of the smaller sizes is quite difficult. I have still not figured out the corresponding tap diameters for those numbers under 1/4". Buy a *good* drill index filled with number-sized drills. You will find a table embossed into the metal of the top tray which lists the body and tap drill sizes for common number-sized screws. Or -- look up the proper table in your _Machinery's Handbook_. Or prepare to compile (language is 'C') a program which I wrote some time ago: ================================================== ==================== number-screw 3 56 For a #3-56.000 screw: Clearance diameter: 0.099 Tap drill diameter: 0.081 ================================================== ==================== And you'll still need the drill index to convert those decimal sizes to the number size. :-) Also, I'm still keeping my eyes open for a good bench block.(They seem to range from just over 2 inches to jsut over 4 inches). Mine is a 3" one, IIRC. Made by Starrett. The dies can be used to smooth down a thread which was cut just a little oversized. Ok. But I guess that I wouldn't *need* them if I cut the thread correctly. Yes -- if your *machine* is rigid enough to cut the threads correctly. [ ... ] Well, the floor can support me and I weight well over three times what the basic lathe weighs.(And well over twice it's length). :-) But the bandsaw and the bench grinder are of similar weight to your lathe -- or heavier. The basic machine is only 90lbs(which I think is lighter than most in it's class). So much for that "more massive bedway" statement in their advertisment.(They do call it's .47 hp motor powerful). :-) Anyway, The bandsaw would be for cutting that 1/4" thick stainless I mentioned. So you would need a vertical bandsaw for that. The horizontal ones are good for cutting overlength stock to a reasonable length for what you intend to do with it. And a vertical bandsaw which will run at speeds appropriate for stainless will be big and heavy. Proably 600 pounds or so, at a rough guess. 600?!? Yes -- in part just to find a bandsaw which will run slow enough to cut stainless steel. Most inexpensive (and light) bandsaws have speeds only appropriate for wood or metals like brass or aluminum. They are *way* too fast for mild steel even -- let along stainless. What about 4" long cuts through 1/16" thick stainless steel? The same rules apply. It is the blade speed which is the major problem. (Actually, you *might* be able to get away with the horizontal/vertical bandsaw in vertical mode -- if you don't need to cut too far from the edge of the workpiece, as the clearance for the other side is rather limited. Enjoy, DoN. P.S. I'm getting to dread weekends, since that is when I get hit by several of your long postings. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#21
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Tool Terms
O.K. The first of the ones which I got also as e-mail.
*Please* don't send me e-mail copies of your postings. Especially so, since the "From: " address is bogus, so a reply would be wasting my time. Ok. This was definitely the resultof problems with the library computers, which I rarely use to post to the newsgroups unless my home system goes down. The "modified compound" was what the web site you pointed me to was offering to allow the use of an AXA sized toolpost on this small a lathe. With the standard compound, the toolpost will be too high, and you won't be able to adjust the tools to centerline. Ok. There are several sellers of this tool post/holder set on Ebay. And it has to be "milled to fit". :-( Perhaps I should hold off on the tool post. BTW. I found the AXA-16N in the MSC catolog(for $152.25). No -- the plate which slides into the T-slot on the compound has to be milled to fit. You don't *have* a T-slot on that lathe, unlike most larger (and some smaller) lathes. So, you unscrew the center rod from the T-head blank, and screw it into the threaded hole in the top of the *modified* compound which you purchase. There *may* be a different center rod, which should be part of what comes with the modified compound. OK. I ordered one, so I'll re-read this when I have it in my hand. Hmmm. Ebay: 7593078186 Hmm ... you note that it is intended to fit a 5C lathe spindle socket? And the only way *you* can provide a 5C socket is with this thing which you already got from eBay. And the only way to hold *that* is in a three-jaw or 4-jaw chuck on the lathe's spindle. There seems to be little point to getting a chuck to hold in a chuck via an adaptor. :-) Granted, people have held much smaller lathe chucks for tiny workpieces in gigantic lathe chucks, but the size of *this* chuck is one which is probably already available for your lathe spindle. I have one of those, which I use sometimes when the lathe is set up for collets, and I want to work on a small workpiece and don't want to heave around the heavy larger chucks for my lathe. But mine is set up for 5C collets. Now -- you *could* use this in the spin indexer which you mention somewhere below (from what I remember from reading the e-mail earlier in the day). But that spin indexer is probably not as small as you think it is. :-) That's exactly what I was thinking. But when I get around to getting a mill... :-) Neertheless, if I'm lucky and can fit the spin indexer(with collet and work) over my lathe's bed in front of an endmill(located inside of an end mill holder), I'd be able to bolt it to the geared elevation platform I'm designing. :-) (Perhaps I can make a "collet block" tool holder for indexing). :-) Yes -- that would be a good task to get started learning your lathe and its capabilities. It's limitations make me wonder if I should bother getting precision 5C collets or just regular 5C collets.(Even after a tune up). Regular for that. Probably regular for whatever you're going to be doing. Save on buying the good ones until you have a machine which can benefit from them. I definitely won't be using the collets for tool holding and plan to bid on a set of endmill holders: 7552009436 BTW. Since I am getting a lot of stuff from a single seller I decided I might as well pick up a set of collets also. I previously asked the seller if he combined for shipping and he said yes. But at over $50 shipping I still think thats kind of high... 7597548589 33 PCS PRECISION 5C COLLETS SET & FREE 5C COLLET STAND 1 US $93.95 7590882403 0- 4" DEPTH MICROMETER 2.5" BASE MICROMETERS .001" CASE 1 US $24.95 7593646099 0 - 4" 4 PCS MICROMETER SET CARBIDE TIP MICROMETERS NEW 1 US $19.99 7595311979 NEW PRECISION MORSE TAPER # 2 MT LIVE CENTER TAPERS ! 1 US $11.95 7593644408 6 PC 5/16- 6 CYLINDER T-BORE GAGES GAGE SET TELESCOPING 1 US $9.75 7589437709 5C COLLET COLLETS BLOCK SET HEX, SQUARE BLOCKS NEW SETS 1 US $28.90 7582356634 5/8" DRILL CHUCK W/ STRAIGHT / MT / R8 SHANK ARBOR NEW! 1 US $18.95 7572307933 110 LBS PULL 4 WAY MAGNETIC BASE TEST & DIAL INDICATOR 1 US $10.95 7570240691 5C PRECISION SPIN INDEX FIXTURE COLLET FOR MILLING NEW 1 US $26.90 7542413378 3 MORSE TAPER TO 2 MORSE TAPER ADAPTOR NEW 1 US $6.00 7503033206 PRECISION MACHINISTS ANGLE GAGE SET 18 PCS GAGES NEW 1 US $15.25 Subtotal: US $267.54 Shipping and handling via UPS Ground: US $50.90 Total: US $318.44 (Along with something else you recommended: 7594930259). Ok. Let's see. No "DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder".All I need is the Morse Taper #2 toll holder to allow me to use the center and regular drills that I'd normally use on the tail stock, correct? Yes -- with the problem of getting lateral centering each time you use them which I mentioned before. I'd like to mention that reamers, taps, ect. can also be put into that holder. They can. Taps, under power, are asking for trouble. I tap under power in my lathe, but: 1) It has a bed turret, so the tool holders are always on center. 2) I have some releasing tap holders to mount in that turret. When the tap reaches a pre-set depth, it pulls part of the holder to release the coupling to the rigidly mounted part in the turret. This allows the tap and part of the holder to spin freely until I can stop and reverse the spindle to back the tap out of the just made threads. You don't have the releasing tap holders, and I don't think that your spindle can be run at reasonable speeds and torque for this -- depending on the size of the tap, of course. Thanks. You've convinced me to stick with manual tapping. At least for now , and with the equipment I have. Or should I say, don't have. :-). BTW. I don't see going much larger than 5/8" in the near future. I don't have a mill or drill yet but this looks interestiung: 7537997365 I'll also have to come up with a good system for waste disposal. Yes. You may have the trash pickup people really mad at you, and you *may* be violating some ordinance where you live if you toss metal turnings into the general trash. Yes. Recycling is now the law here. An end mill grinding fixture is only for the square ended end mills. For a ball end mill, you will need a serious tool and cutter grinder, and quite a bit of time to learn to use it properly. I don't have one, and have never had a chance to learn one. It will be a lot cheaper to just buy new ball end mills as needed -- or if you are dulling them a lot, find a service which will sharpen them for you. Good. One less worry. BTW, the guide in the MSC catalog points to 3 flute end mills as the best choice for what I want to do with stainless steel. O.K. Two-flute or three-flute plunge fairly nicely though either may take more power than you have in stainless depending on the diameter, so you may need to pre-drill the holes to depth at a smaller diameter first. Since stainless is still the *back-up* plan, two-flute should be sufficient for Delrin. I guess that I can plunge jussst about any 1/4" ball-end mill into Delrin. But the depth would have to be consistent between holes. Which reminds me, I also need to get a carriage stop. Yes. * MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach). ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7591760352 I was discussin it in another thread.("Using A Rotabroach Cutter In A Lathe") *Please* -- when you post eBay auctions, just post the auction number (7591760352 in the above), rather than the whole URL. That is all that *I* use, and nobody else seems to be following this thread any more. Did you notice that this one is in England? The currency exchange can be a pain, and shipping can take forever. Yes, I noticed. But there doesn't seem to be another supplier. It looks interesting -- though it is probably made for a mag base drill, not a lathe. I assume you mean the cutter portion and not the shank. I mean the shank, which is a Morse taper to fit the spindle in the mag base drill (or at least in *some* mag base drills), and the other end is designed to hold the Rotabroach. Yes -- it can be used to fit a Rotabroach to a lathe spindle, though I'm not sure about the torque available from your lathe spindle for running a Rotabroach in stainless steel. At worst, I should be able to use it on softer materials(ie: Aluminum). I wonder if I should just get a Morse Taper #2 socket and make my own holder. :-) lathe Dog? Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range of sizes which you expect to turn between centers. And this is the one commonly mentioned item that I've not yet read about a purpose for. O.K. Think of a workpiece held between centers (a ball bearing live center in the tailstock, and a solid center in the headstock). This holds the workpiece perfectly on center -- but what turns the workpiece. The surface area of contact between the headstock center and the workpiece is too small to put any significant torque into it. A lathe dog has a hole which slips over the workpiece, with a setscrew to clamp it to the workpiece. The dog typically has a bent tail which engages a slot in the driver faceplate. Some have straight tails, and are driven by a bolt run through the faceplate and held by a nut. Ok. I assume that each will encompass a small range of diameters so I won't have to buy one for every 1/16" of an inch. :-) Correct. The range is limited in part by the length of the screw which grips the workpiece -- though there are other thing which also play a role in deciding. I have lathe dogs somewhat covered: 7594607844. I didn't see the one lathe dog on the Micro-mark page as being too useful. But I may now have to custom make a face plate so I can use them. My idea is actually a little different. Basically all I need is a plate with 36 equally spaced holes and another with 10 holes. Actually it probably would be best to just make what I need.(The only other end mills I'll need will be for gear cutting). Hmm ... 36 and 10. How about 36 and 40? The index head for the Emco-Maier C5 mill (not to be confused with the 5C collet size) has those two, plus two other counts -- all build into the one fixture. You simply shift the spring-loaded pin from one threaded hole to another to select the number of positions available. And even the really tiny index head for the Unimat SL-1000 (long out of production) had available four index hubs with those four hole counts. But they typically came with only the 36 hole one, and you had to buy the others as accessories. Though 36 and 40 would quadruple the position opptions, there is not enough room for that many holes inthe space I set aside. One of these days I'll get more into my idea for a "Chuck-Plate"(for lack of a better term). It's basically a face-plate with 12 location options for inserting reversible jaws so that either a 3 or a 4 jaw option is possible. It will also allow the option of scroll or independent.(The idea is complete. The hard part will be finalizing the dimensions of all of the individual parts). You'll have to look on eBay for these, and beware that the pricing on the Unimat stuff has started into "collector's item" range. The only thing found on eBay at the moment with a search on "emco index head" is: 7594760412 There is a simular one in the Grizzly catalog. which is probably too big for your purpose, but which is a very nice one, with a rather unusual 4-jaw universal chuck -- that is, the jaws move inward at the same rate, just like a 3-jaw. That might be very nice for mounting on your lathe for turning truly square plates -- except that I don't see the outside grip jaws for it. I'll still keep my eyes open, but I guess my priority should be getting a compatible 5" 4-jaw chuck for those sqaure pieces. BTW. Since it was cheap and I'm getting a lot of other stuff from the seller, I bought a little 5C spin index to experiment with.(#) O.K. You may find it larger than you think. :-) I'll let you know the dimensions when I get it. :-) And as far as milling machines go. I was going to get the Micro-Mark cousin to my lathe, but I've seen too many of them show up on eBay broken.(So I'll wait). The plastic gears, I suspect. I've seen lots of postings about those giving way in some of the import milling machines. I guess that's why their ad for the lathe says in bright red letters, "Now with metal gears on the spindle shaft!". But of course that'll just shift the weak link iun the chain to another location. :-) Trammel This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider. Actually, the items I was looking at int he HF catalog are quite small. Hmm ... normally a trammel is designed to take the place of a compass or dividers where a standard design is too large to be easy to use. There are trammel point sets designed to clamp onto a standard yardstick for a cheap way to do it. I have a nice Starrett one with a spare bar to allow handling a radius of up to 18", IIRC. I'll be using a ruler. :-) For scribing a circle? Yup. I have a couple of metal rulers. Beware of carbon steel dies. They are too brittle, and will break or will chip teeth. You want HSS taps and or dies. The dies are only needed for making external threads, which you should be able to do on the lathe. The taps are more useful to you because internal threading on a lathe of the smaller sizes is quite difficult. I have still not figured out the corresponding tap diameters for those numbers under 1/4". Buy a *good* drill index filled with number-sized drills. You will find a table embossed into the metal of the top tray which lists the body and tap drill sizes for common number-sized screws. Or -- look up the proper table in your _Machinery's Handbook_. Or prepare to compile (language is 'C') a program which I wrote some time ago: ================================================== ==================== number-screw 3 56 For a #3-56.000 screw: Clearance diameter: 0.099 Tap drill diameter: 0.081 ================================================== ==================== And you'll still need the drill index to convert those decimal sizes to the number size. :-) I'm in the process of searching for a good book on this subject to add to the other's high on my list.("Machinery's Handbook", "Machine Shop Practice"(Moltrecht), and some other book with the word essentials in it). :-) Also, I'm still keeping my eyes open for a good bench block.(They seem to range from just over 2 inches to jsut over 4 inches). Mine is a 3" one, IIRC. Made by Starrett. The dies can be used to smooth down a thread which was cut just a little oversized. Ok. But I guess that I wouldn't *need* them if I cut the thread correctly. Yes -- if your *machine* is rigid enough to cut the threads correctly. I'll keep my fingers crossed. :-) Anyway, The bandsaw would be for cutting that 1/4" thick stainless I mentioned. So you would need a vertical bandsaw for that. The horizontal ones are good for cutting overlength stock to a reasonable length for what you intend to do with it. And a vertical bandsaw which will run at speeds appropriate for stainless will be big and heavy. Proably 600 pounds or so, at a rough guess. 600?!? Yes -- in part just to find a bandsaw which will run slow enough to cut stainless steel. Most inexpensive (and light) bandsaws have speeds only appropriate for wood or metals like brass or aluminum. They are *way* too fast for mild steel even -- let along stainless. What about 4" long cuts through 1/16" thick stainless steel? The same rules apply. It is the blade speed which is the major problem. (Actually, you *might* be able to get away with the horizontal/vertical bandsaw in vertical mode -- if you don't need to cut too far from the edge of the workpiece, as the clearance for the other side is rather limited. Well the idea was to cut 4" squares out of the 4" wide, 4'(or is it 6') long pieces. But if it is easier(though not cheaper) to just get it completsly precut, then I'll have no choice. Thanks. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#22
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Tool Terms
According to :
O.K. The first of the ones which I got also as e-mail. *Please* don't send me e-mail copies of your postings. Especially so, since the "From: " address is bogus, so a reply would be wasting my time. Ok. This was definitely the resultof problems with the library computers, which I rarely use to post to the newsgroups unless my home system goes down. O.K. As it urned out, I saw both in the newsgroup, and only one seemed to require an answer, so you got that. [ ... ] No -- the plate which slides into the T-slot on the compound has to be milled to fit. You don't *have* a T-slot on that lathe, unlike most larger (and some smaller) lathes. So, you unscrew the center rod from the T-head blank, and screw it into the threaded hole in the top of the *modified* compound which you purchase. There *may* be a different center rod, which should be part of what comes with the modified compound. OK. I ordered one, so I'll re-read this when I have it in my hand. O.K. Hmmm. Ebay: 7593078186 [ ... ] Now -- you *could* use this in the spin indexer which you mention somewhere below (from what I remember from reading the e-mail earlier in the day). But that spin indexer is probably not as small as you think it is. :-) That's exactly what I was thinking. But when I get around to getting a mill... :-) O.K. Neertheless, if I'm lucky and can fit the spin indexer(with collet and work) over my lathe's bed in front of an endmill(located inside of an end mill holder), I'd be able to bolt it to the geared elevation platform I'm designing. :-) O.K. Note that a spin indexer does not have the worm gear drive which either a rotary table or an index/dividing head have, so trying to rotate the workpiece while you are machining may get rather exciting -- it may get away from you and rap your knuckles with the hand crank. [ ... ] I definitely won't be using the collets for tool holding and plan to bid on a set of endmill holders: 7552009436 O.K. I see a problem with those. They have tanged ends, rather than ends drilled and tapped for a drawbar. You will have a risk of things coming loose still. BTW. Since I am getting a lot of stuff from a single seller I decided I might as well pick up a set of collets also. I previously asked the seller if he combined for shipping and he said yes. But at over $50 shipping I still think thats kind of high... [ ... ] 7582356634 5/8" DRILL CHUCK W/ STRAIGHT / MT / R8 SHANK ARBOR NEW! 1 US $18.95 What are you going to use this (above) on? It seems too big for a tailstock chuck for your lathe, and way too big for a chuck for a drill press which you could carry up the stairs. It *might* work in the headstock, I guess. [ ... ] They can. Taps, under power, are asking for trouble. I tap under power in my lathe, but: 1) It has a bed turret, so the tool holders are always on center. 2) I have some releasing tap holders to mount in that turret. When the tap reaches a pre-set depth, it pulls part of the holder to release the coupling to the rigidly mounted part in the turret. This allows the tap and part of the holder to spin freely until I can stop and reverse the spindle to back the tap out of the just made threads. You don't have the releasing tap holders, and I don't think that your spindle can be run at reasonable speeds and torque for this -- depending on the size of the tap, of course. Thanks. You've convinced me to stick with manual tapping. At least for now , and with the equipment I have. Or should I say, don't have. :-). BTW. I don't see going much larger than 5/8" in the near future. I don't have a mill or drill yet but this looks interestiung: 7537997365 Be aware that it *must* be used in a rotating spindle. You can't use it in the non-rotating spindle of your lathe tailstock. [ ... ] O.K. Two-flute or three-flute plunge fairly nicely though either may take more power than you have in stainless depending on the diameter, so you may need to pre-drill the holes to depth at a smaller diameter first. Since stainless is still the *back-up* plan, two-flute should be sufficient for Delrin. O.K. [ ... lathe dogs ... ] Ok. I assume that each will encompass a small range of diameters so I won't have to buy one for every 1/16" of an inch. :-) Correct. The range is limited in part by the length of the screw which grips the workpiece -- though there are other thing which also play a role in deciding. I have lathe dogs somewhat covered: 7594607844. I didn't see the one lathe dog on the Micro-mark page as being too useful. But I may now have to custom make a face plate so I can use them. O.K. These look reasonable. My idea is actually a little different. Basically all I need is a plate with 36 equally spaced holes and another with 10 holes. Actually it probably would be best to just make what I need.(The only other end mills I'll need will be for gear cutting). Hmm ... 36 and 10. How about 36 and 40? The index head for the Emco-Maier C5 mill (not to be confused with the 5C collet size) has those two, plus two other counts -- all build into the one fixture. You simply shift the spring-loaded pin from one threaded hole to another to select the number of positions available. And even the really tiny index head for the Unimat SL-1000 (long out of production) had available four index hubs with those four hole counts. But they typically came with only the 36 hole one, and you had to buy the others as accessories. Though 36 and 40 would quadruple the position opptions, there is not enough room for that many holes inthe space I set aside. I was talking about things which are available pre-made which are close to what you are thinking of making -- but with provisions for the things which you have not yet thought of. [ ... ] I'll still keep my eyes open, but I guess my priority should be getting a compatible 5" 4-jaw chuck for those sqaure pieces. Yes -- which *could* include a separate back plate and a plain-back chuck, so you can adapt it to your machine. BTW. Since it was cheap and I'm getting a lot of other stuff from the seller, I bought a little 5C spin index to experiment with.(#) O.K. You may find it larger than you think. :-) I'll let you know the dimensions when I get it. :-) I think that I know the size of the typical spin indexer. BTW -- you can divide parts to any integer number of degrees. There are 36 holes in the plate, and ten holes for the locking pin so you can between them get any of 360 positions. Look that over and learn how to use it before you buy an index head. (Of course it won't do for things which don't divide evenly into 360 degrees.) And as far as milling machines go. I was going to get the Micro-Mark cousin to my lathe, but I've seen too many of them show up on eBay broken.(So I'll wait). The plastic gears, I suspect. I've seen lots of postings about those giving way in some of the import milling machines. I guess that's why their ad for the lathe says in bright red letters, "Now with metal gears on the spindle shaft!". But of course that'll just shift the weak link iun the chain to another location. :-) Of course. :-) [ ... ] I have still not figured out the corresponding tap diameters for those numbers under 1/4". Buy a *good* drill index filled with number-sized drills. You will find a table embossed into the metal of the top tray which lists the body and tap drill sizes for common number-sized screws. Or -- look up the proper table in your _Machinery's Handbook_. Or prepare to compile (language is 'C') a program which I wrote some time ago: ================================================== ==================== number-screw 3 56 For a #3-56.000 screw: Clearance diameter: 0.099 Tap drill diameter: 0.081 ================================================== ==================== And you'll still need the drill index to convert those decimal sizes to the number size. :-) I'm in the process of searching for a good book on this subject to add to the other's high on my list.("Machinery's Handbook", "Machine Shop Practice"(Moltrecht), and some other book with the word essentials in it). :-) O.K. The Moltrecht two-volume set is excellent, but _Machinery's Handbook_ is the place to look up sizes and things like that. [ ... weight of good vertical metal-cutting bandsaw ... ] 600?!? Yes -- in part just to find a bandsaw which will run slow enough to cut stainless steel. Most inexpensive (and light) bandsaws have speeds only appropriate for wood or metals like brass or aluminum. They are *way* too fast for mild steel even -- let along stainless. What about 4" long cuts through 1/16" thick stainless steel? The same rules apply. It is the blade speed which is the major problem. (Actually, you *might* be able to get away with the horizontal/vertical bandsaw in vertical mode -- if you don't need to cut too far from the edge of the workpiece, as the clearance for the other side is rather limited. Well the idea was to cut 4" squares out of the 4" wide, 4'(or is it 6') long pieces. But if it is easier(though not cheaper) to just get it completsly precut, then I'll have no choice. It will be cheaper up until a certain number of pieces, and you really have no place to put something capable of handling the stainless steel. Or -- you can perhaps find a sheet metal shop locally with a shear capable of cutting the 1/16" SS. This is the same as 16 gauge, and most reasonable shears are good up to 16 gauge in *mild* steel, but only to something like 20 gauge (or even thinner) in Stainless Steels. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#23
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Tool Terms
According to :
[ ... ] O.K. Note that a spin indexer does not have the worm gear drive which either a rotary table or an index/dividing head have, so trying to rotate the workpiece while you are machining may get rather exciting -- it may get away from you and rap your knuckles with the hand crank. Actually it never crossed my mind to rotate the work piece while machining.(I'd sooner put to the workpiece in the spidle). If you need to make a groove or a slot which forms only part of a circle, you'll need to rotate the workpiece in something like an index head or a rotary table. I was thinking that if there isn't a say to lock it, There is a way -- but it might not be very strong, other than the pin for setting specific angles. Note that turning the workpiece in the spin indexer while cutting can make sense, if you are working with a surface grinder. Working with a milling cutter, however, risks losing control of the workpiece. perhaps I can develop one.(The entire indexer would have to move up and down on a platform). I definitely won't be using the collets for tool holding and plan to bid on a set of endmill holders: 7552009436 O.K. I see a problem with those. They have tanged ends, rather than ends drilled and tapped for a drawbar. You will have a risk of things coming loose still. The tangs are the reason I hadn't bid yet. I wasn't sure what that was about. @#$%! And I thought I might have been onto a deal. It would have been a deal -- if you only intended plunge milling and no side motion. However, with the side motion, you really need a way to use a drawbar. [ ... ] 7582356634 5/8" DRILL CHUCK W/ STRAIGHT / MT / R8 SHANK ARBOR NEW! 1 US $18.95 What are you going to use this (above) on? It seems too big for a tailstock chuck for your lathe, and way too big for a chuck for a drill press which you could carry up the stairs. It *might* work in the headstock, I guess. Why too big? The auction ad states, "Buyers can choose 1" Straight Shank or MT2 J3 or MT3 J3 or MT4 J3 or R8 J3 shank arbor. ". Just because you can *fit* it in the tailstock does not mean that the tailstock is strong enough to take the cutting forces of a 5/8" drill bit. You *might* get away with it, if the tailstock has the groove to hold the tang to prevent spinning the tool in the tailstock ram. But it can lead to unwanted excitement. And -- a 5/8" chuck takes up more of the limited distance between the tailstock and the spindle nose. For a 2MT tailstock ram, I would typically use a 3/8" chuck, or *maybe* a 1/2" one -- carefully. My 5/8" chuck is on a MT-3 arbor, not MT-2. Most of my drill will have to be from the head stock because I'll need to be able to keep re-positioning the work to make a variety of holes and slots. O.K. Though a drill press is probably better for this most of the time. I don't have a mill or drill yet but this looks interestiung: 7537997365 Be aware that it *must* be used in a rotating spindle. You can't use it in the non-rotating spindle of your lathe tailstock. I definitely wasn't considering it's use with my lathe. :-) O.K. Just being sure, because you have come up with other ideas which I fell very uncomfortable with. [ ... ] And even the really tiny index head for the Unimat SL-1000 (long out of production) had available four index hubs with those four hole counts. But they typically came with only the 36 hole one, and you had to buy the others as accessories. Though 36 and 40 would quadruple the position opptions, there is not enough room for that many holes inthe space I set aside. I was talking about things which are available pre-made which are close to what you are thinking of making -- but with provisions for the things which you have not yet thought of. Ok. The only problem is that I don't think there are ready made plates that would have the exact dimensions and hole positions I'd need. The Emco-Maier one has a single plate built in, with four circles of holes. 40 and 36 are two of them. I think that 30 may be another. I forget what the forth is. Not as flexible as a dividing head with interchangeable plates (each with 6-8 rows of holes) and a worm gear between the plate giving a ratio of 40:1, 20:1 or 90:1. The one for the Unimat SL-1000 actually has interchangeable hubs, with a triangular gear tooth cut on the outside, into which a spring loaded plunger fits, and then the assembly is locked with a separate clamp bolt. I'll still keep my eyes open, but I guess my priority should be getting a compatible 5" 4-jaw chuck for those sqaure pieces. Yes -- which *could* include a separate back plate and a plain-back chuck, so you can adapt it to your machine. Funny why I din't think of something before. I can actually forego the 5" chuck for now. Remember when I mentioned that I wanted to put 1/4" square holes in each corner of the 4-1/2" square plate? I can just make a face plate to bolt it to. :-) (Perhaps putting some wood in between). That makes sense. I would suggest that you drill the plate and tap it for studs, and use nuts which you spin onto the studs after placing the plate on them. I would also suggest that you use washers between the workpiece and the nuts so you don't mar the surface of the workpiece with the nut's friction. [ ... ] BTW -- you can divide parts to any integer number of degrees. There are 36 holes in the plate, and ten holes for the locking pin so you can between them get any of 360 positions. Look that over and learn how to use it before you buy an index head. (Of course it won't do for things which don't divide evenly into 360 degrees.) I had actually had that idea for 36 and 10 before I noticed those numbers on existing indexers. So it was wasy to deduce the basic of how they work, because I had basically re-invented the wheel. :-) Not quite the way the spin indexer works. The 36 hole plate is a part of the spindle. The 10 holes are part of the base casting. They are located in an arc, with the ten holes taking up the span of 11 holes in the plate, so moving the pin from one hole to the next, and rotating the spindle and plate the minimum to allow it to engage the nearest hole will move the plate 1/10th of the distance between adjacent holes. This is quite similar to a vernier. [ ... ] What about 4" long cuts through 1/16" thick stainless steel? The same rules apply. It is the blade speed which is the major problem. (Actually, you *might* be able to get away with the horizontal/vertical bandsaw in vertical mode -- if you don't need to cut too far from the edge of the workpiece, as the clearance for the other side is rather limited. Well the idea was to cut 4" squares out of the 4" wide, 4'(or is it 6') long pieces. But if it is easier(though not cheaper) to just get it completsly precut, then I'll have no choice. It will be cheaper up until a certain number of pieces, and you really have no place to put something capable of handling the stainless steel. Or -- you can perhaps find a sheet metal shop locally with a shear capable of cutting the 1/16" SS. This is the same as 16 gauge, and most reasonable shears are good up to 16 gauge in *mild* steel, but only to something like 20 gauge (or even thinner) in Stainless Steels. Take a look at these: 7598678434 & 7598678968 I just did. My first thought is that these things are going to be *noisy*, and not the thing to use in an apartment with neighbors. The first of them has to be guided by hand, so you would have to make some form of fixture to hold it and guide it properly. The second of them is obviously designed for cutting channel, small I beams, square or round tubing and similar things. While the vise will open as wide as 4-3/4", it is expecting something deeper than 1/16" plate, and will quite likely distort the plate as you try to clamp it by the edges. And, that design would have the saw break through in the middle first, and then work out towards the edges, at which point it might grab and pull the stainless out of the vise -- and perhaps hurt someone with the flailing metal. I'm told by the seller that the Steel Max saws only come with a mild steel blade. So I'd need to purchase a separate stainless steel blade to cut through 1/4" S.S.(Whatever that means). I would first worry about the noise issue. While the lathe and the mill will be reasonably quiet, *this* thing will not. For the larger one, 1450 RPM, combined with the 80 tooth blade for SS, will make for about a 1.93 KHZ scream. Something which I might live with in my stand-alone dwelling, with the shop having replaced the two-car garage, but I don't think that using it in an apartment building would work out. Good luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#24
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DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to : [ ... ] O.K. Note that a spin indexer does not have the worm gear drive which either a rotary table or an index/dividing head have, so trying to rotate the workpiece while you are machining may get rather exciting -- it may get away from you and rap your knuckles with the hand crank. Actually it never crossed my mind to rotate the work piece while machining.(I'd sooner put to the workpiece in the spidle). If you need to make a groove or a slot which forms only part of a circle, you'll need to rotate the workpiece in something like an index head or a rotary table. Or plunge and file until I get a more reasonable wet-up.(I'll be checking Home Depot to see if I can find some lathe files). I was thinking that if there isn't a say to lock it, There is a way -- but it might not be very strong, other than the pin for setting specific angles. I'll study it to see what ideas I can come up with. Note that turning the workpiece in the spin indexer while cutting can make sense, if you are working with a surface grinder. Working with a milling cutter, however, risks losing control of the workpiece. Too bad a surface grinder is way out of the realm of possibilty right now. :-( perhaps I can develop one.(The entire indexer would have to move up and down on a platform). I definitely won't be using the collets for tool holding and plan to bid on a set of endmill holders: 7552009436 O.K. I see a problem with those. They have tanged ends, rather than ends drilled and tapped for a drawbar. You will have a risk of things coming loose still. The tangs are the reason I hadn't bid yet. I wasn't sure what that was about. @#$%! And I thought I might have been onto a deal. It would have been a deal -- if you only intended plunge milling and no side motion. However, with the side motion, you really need a way to use a drawbar. Ok.: 7599888531 I assume that making a drawbar is not problem, but do I really need to buy a collet closer?: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=2374 7582356634 5/8" DRILL CHUCK W/ STRAIGHT / MT / R8 SHANK ARBOR NEW! 1 US $18.95 What are you going to use this (above) on? It seems too big for a tailstock chuck for your lathe, and way too big for a chuck for a drill press which you could carry up the stairs. It *might* work in the headstock, I guess. Why too big? The auction ad states, "Buyers can choose 1" Straight Shank or MT2 J3 or MT3 J3 or MT4 J3 or R8 J3 shank arbor. ". Just because you can *fit* it in the tailstock does not mean that the tailstock is strong enough to take the cutting forces of a 5/8" drill bit. You *might* get away with it, if the tailstock has the groove to hold the tang to prevent spinning the tool in the tailstock ram. But it can lead to unwanted excitement. And -- a 5/8" chuck takes up more of the limited distance between the tailstock and the spindle nose. For a 2MT tailstock ram, I would typically use a 3/8" chuck, or *maybe* a 1/2" one -- carefully. My 5/8" chuck is on a MT-3 arbor, not MT-2. I'd like to point out that I'm getting the MT2 version for the tailstock.: 7530390913 And little Machine Shop actually sells for for my specific lathe: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=1148 Nevertheless, Plastics like Delrin will be a big part of my projects, so cutting forces wouldn't be as big a deal with those large chucks. Speaking of the tailstock. I was wondering what you thought about die holders. The one sold specifically for my lathe holds 13/16 inch O.D. dies for threading shafts. The 1/2 inch O.D. shank fits the larger tailstock chucks and has 3/8 inch hole for threaded stock to pass through. It's blackened steel with a set screw and wrench to hold the die. They are sell an expensive 14 piece tap & die set: http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares...oduct&ID=14153 But since I am already getting some wrenches(7524114193), I'll get only what I need for now *the same seller*. I believe these are the standard sizes: 7532135748 BTW. I've noticed that the Little Machine Shop site seems to assume that if people use collets with their mini-lathes, they would be 3C collets.(So I assume that my specific needs that require 5C are not normal). Most of my drill will have to be from the head stock because I'll need to be able to keep re-positioning the work to make a variety of holes and slots. O.K. Though a drill press is probably better for this most of the time. Ok. I'm still in the market for a good table-top drill press. -snip- I'm looking into the plausiblity of making worm gears on this lathe. I am however working on an idea for special gear-making jig. It's king of an upside-down "pendulum-type" holder located on the slide, with a crank that will ratchet the work. -snip- I had actually had that idea for 36 and 10 before I noticed those numbers on existing indexers. So it was wasy to deduce the basic of how they work, because I had basically re-invented the wheel. :-) Not quite the way the spin indexer works. The 36 hole plate is a part of the spindle. The 10 holes are part of the base casting. They are located in an arc, with the ten holes taking up the span of 11 holes in the plate, so moving the pin from one hole to the next, and rotating the spindle and plate the minimum to allow it to engage the nearest hole will move the plate 1/10th of the distance between adjacent holes. This is quite similar to a vernier. Well from what you're saying, the basics are the same. With what I'm designing, one component will allow the work to loack at 36 positions, 10 degrees apart. And a second component will allow 1 degree incriments and a 10 degreee total. -snip- Take a look at these: 7598678434 & 7598678968 I just did. My first thought is that these things are going to be *noisy*, and not the thing to use in an apartment with neighbors. The first of them has to be guided by hand, so you would have to make some form of fixture to hold it and guide it properly. The second of them is obviously designed for cutting channel, small I beams, square or round tubing and similar things. While the vise will open as wide as 4-3/4", it is expecting something deeper than 1/16" plate, and will quite likely distort the plate as you try to clamp it by the edges. And, that design would have the saw break through in the middle first, and then work out towards the edges, at which point it might grab and pull the stainless out of the vise -- and perhaps hurt someone with the flailing metal. I'm told by the seller that the Steel Max saws only come with a mild steel blade. So I'd need to purchase a separate stainless steel blade to cut through 1/4" S.S.(Whatever that means). I would first worry about the noise issue. While the lathe and the mill will be reasonably quiet, *this* thing will not. For the larger one, 1450 RPM, combined with the 80 tooth blade for SS, will make for about a 1.93 KHZ scream. Something which I might live with in my stand-alone dwelling, with the shop having replaced the two-car garage, but I don't think that using it in an apartment building would work out. Yess. The first thing I thought about was the noise also. I don't even think I coul duse it down in the storage room. But if I can make a cutting jig of some sort I could find someplace else to knock off enough plates because it is completely portable. And I'm assuming that there woul dbe more material wastse than from a capable bandsaw. The blades for this circular saw are about $60. And I wonder if one could fit on a table saw that was powerful enough.(Though I doubt it, because the whole set-up sounds like it's proprietary). Thanks a lot. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#25
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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According to :
DoN. Nichols wrote: According to : [ ... ] Actually it never crossed my mind to rotate the work piece while machining.(I'd sooner put to the workpiece in the spidle). If you need to make a groove or a slot which forms only part of a circle, you'll need to rotate the workpiece in something like an index head or a rotary table. Or plunge and file until I get a more reasonable wet-up.(I'll be checking Home Depot to see if I can find some lathe files). Lathe files? I think that the answer is no -- given what Home Depot tends to carry. And any file used on rotating work in a lathe *must* have a handle, because there is a risk of the end of the file getting caught on a jaw of the chuck, and the file being driven, tang first, into your chest. If you mean filing the groove to the curve after drilling a bunch of holes to rough the shape, then what would be quite nice for the task is a die filer and the proper files for a die filer (which cuts on the draw, not the press, so it doesn't push the workpiece up from the table. Note that you will *not* be able to find a *new* die filer. They are considered obsolete, and the files from them are difficult to find as well. MLA makes kits for building a die filer, but that needs more tools than you currently have. [ ... ] I definitely won't be using the collets for tool holding and plan to bid on a set of endmill holders: 7552009436 O.K. I see a problem with those. They have tanged ends, rather than ends drilled and tapped for a drawbar. You will have a risk of things coming loose still. The tangs are the reason I hadn't bid yet. I wasn't sure what that was about. @#$%! And I thought I might have been onto a deal. It would have been a deal -- if you only intended plunge milling and no side motion. However, with the side motion, you really need a way to use a drawbar. Ok.: 7599888531 O.K. Those will do. I assume that making a drawbar is not problem, Quite easy -- with a quick-and-dirty one using some allthread (long threaded rod), matching nuts, and a flat washer. Those endmill holders actually specify the thread, so you can get started on it now, if you so desire. but do I really need to buy a collet closer?: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=2374 At that price, I would not bother to *try* to make one. :-) The tube is hollow, with internal threads to match the external threads on the back of the collet. You won't find a tap to match the threads on the back of the collet, so you would have to master the art of single-point threading. The nosepiece is a precise Morse taper (to match the inside of your spindle), and a precise internal taper and key (to match the collet), and is hardened and ground to size, not turned. Only with a Hardinge lathe, whose internal taper on the spindle matches the collets, can you do without that nosepiece. (Or on the very few lathes which compete directly with Hardinge as clones.) 7582356634 5/8" DRILL CHUCK W/ STRAIGHT / MT / R8 SHANK ARBOR NEW! 1 US $18.95 [ ... ] And -- a 5/8" chuck takes up more of the limited distance between the tailstock and the spindle nose. For a 2MT tailstock ram, I would typically use a 3/8" chuck, or *maybe* a 1/2" one -- carefully. My 5/8" chuck is on a MT-3 arbor, not MT-2. I'd like to point out that I'm getting the MT2 version for the tailstock.: 7530390913 The MT-3 would not fit, anyway. But the arbor taper is not what defines the amount of space taken up -- it is the overall length of the chuck body and jaws, which is greater on a 5/8" than on a 1/2" (which you seem to have now settled upon.) And little Machine Shop actually sells for for my specific lathe: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=1148 Hmm ... the note he ================================================== ==================== Chris' Tips If you purchase this product you will not have to cut the tang off the Morse taper. The arbor on this chuck is the correct length for the mini lathe. ================================================== ==================== suggests that this might be the best choice. And that your tailstock will not accommodate the tang on drills or other things, so there is not that anti-spin safety feature. Nevertheless, Plastics like Delrin will be a big part of my projects, so cutting forces wouldn't be as big a deal with those large chucks. Speaking of the tailstock. I was wondering what you thought about die holders. The one sold specifically for my lathe holds 13/16 inch O.D. dies for threading shafts. The 1/2 inch O.D. shank fits the larger tailstock chucks and has 3/8 inch hole for threaded stock to pass through. It's blackened steel with a set screw and wrench to hold the die. I prefer to single-point cut most threads, and for other things I prefer to use Geometric die heads in the turret on my lathe, though I have used die holders adapted to my lathe on rare occasions. They are sell an expensive 14 piece tap & die set: http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares...oduct&ID=14153 Most of those are probably smaller than you really need. But since I am already getting some wrenches(7524114193), I'll get only what I need for now *the same seller*. I believe these are the standard sizes: 7532135748 O.K. I'm not sure that you will need the larger ones in that set, but the whole price is cheap enough -- I just hope that the quality is there. BTW. I've noticed that the Little Machine Shop site seems to assume that if people use collets with their mini-lathes, they would be 3C collets.(So I assume that my specific needs that require 5C are not normal). The 5C collets are *gigantic* compared to what is normal with that lathe. And the major benefit with them on *larger* lathes is that you can pass 1" diameter stock through the lathe spindle and the collet, to do production work. (They are also cheaper than 3C collets of equal quality, because there are so many more made. Most of my drill will have to be from the head stock because I'll need to be able to keep re-positioning the work to make a variety of holes and slots. O.K. Though a drill press is probably better for this most of the time. Ok. I'm still in the market for a good table-top drill press. O.K. The problem may be the intersection of "good" and "table top" for new drill presses. Most these days are very cheaply made. -snip- I'm looking into the plausiblity of making worm gears on this lathe. It can be done, though I have never done it. I am however working on an idea for special gear-making jig. It's king of an upside-down "pendulum-type" holder located on the slide, with a crank that will ratchet the work. I'm afraid that I don't grasp how it works or precisely what it looks like. [ ... ] Take a look at these: 7598678434 & 7598678968 [ ... ] I'm told by the seller that the Steel Max saws only come with a mild steel blade. So I'd need to purchase a separate stainless steel blade to cut through 1/4" S.S.(Whatever that means). I would first worry about the noise issue. While the lathe and the mill will be reasonably quiet, *this* thing will not. For the larger one, 1450 RPM, combined with the 80 tooth blade for SS, will make for about a 1.93 KHZ scream. Something which I might live with in my stand-alone dwelling, with the shop having replaced the two-car garage, but I don't think that using it in an apartment building would work out. Yess. The first thing I thought about was the noise also. I don't even think I coul duse it down in the storage room. But if I can make a cutting jig of some sort I could find someplace else to knock off enough plates because it is completely portable. And I'm assuming that there woul dbe more material wastse than from a capable bandsaw. Not much more -- unless you can benefit from a curved cut. If you really want to minimize material waste, find someone with a shear capable of cutting the material. There should be no waste with a careful operator. The blades for this circular saw are about $60. And I wonder if one could fit on a table saw that was powerful enough.(Though I doubt it, because the whole set-up sounds like it's proprietary). Compare the speeds. I don't know what the spindle speed of a table saw is, but the 7-1/4" saw in your auction before runs at 3600 RPM, and probably would have serious problems at higher speeds. For aluminum and even brass, you would probably be O.K. but not for stainless. Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#26
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:02:29 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
And any file used on rotating work in a lathe *must* have a handle, because there is a risk of the end of the file getting caught on a jaw of the chuck, Yes. and the file being driven, tang first, into your chest. How could it possibly do that, when you're standing off to the side as you should be when doing this sort of work? MLA makes kits for building a die filer, but that needs more tools than you currently have. Do you have a link for MLA? Google finds me references to them but no site directly. |
#27
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Dave Hinz wrote:
... DoN. Nichols ... wrote: .... MLA makes kits for building a die filer, but that needs more tools than you currently have. Do you have a link for MLA? Google finds me references to them but no site directly. http://www.statecollegecentral.com/m...he/MLA-18.html describes it and shows: MLA-18 Filing Machine Basic Kit . . . . $99.50 Drawings and Instructions only . . . . .$16.00 -jiw |
#28
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:10:33 -0700, James Waldby wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote: Do you have a link for MLA? Google finds me references to them but no site directly. http://www.statecollegecentral.com/m...he/MLA-18.html describes it and shows: MLA-18 Filing Machine Basic Kit . . . . $99.50 Drawings and Instructions only . . . . .$16.00 Ah, excellent. Looks like a metalworking version of a drum sander? Goes around, and up & down? Why would that be considered obsolete? |
#29
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On 28 Mar 2006 16:29:52 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:02:29 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote: And any file used on rotating work in a lathe *must* have a handle, because there is a risk of the end of the file getting caught on a jaw of the chuck, Yes. and the file being driven, tang first, into your chest. How could it possibly do that, when you're standing off to the side as you should be when doing this sort of work? It helps a lot if you have learned to file left handed. MLA makes kits for building a die filer, but that needs more tools than you currently have. Do you have a link for MLA? Google finds me references to them but no site directly. Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
#30
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:56:45 -0500, Gerald Miller wrote:
On 28 Mar 2006 16:29:52 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: How could it possibly do that, when you're standing off to the side as you should be when doing this sort of work? It helps a lot if you have learned to file left handed. Absolutely. Left hand on the handle, right hand on the end of the file doing the steering. So the dexterity (heh) is still with the right hand for the process. Not something I was taught, specifically, it just makes sense to do it that way. Learned a long time ago to consider what will happen when a tool slips or breaks and how that'll impact the flesh. |
#31
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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According to Dave Hinz :
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:10:33 -0700, James Waldby wrote: Dave Hinz wrote: Do you have a link for MLA? Google finds me references to them but no site directly. http://www.statecollegecentral.com/m...he/MLA-18.html describes it and shows: MLA-18 Filing Machine Basic Kit . . . . $99.50 Drawings and Instructions only . . . . .$16.00 Ah, excellent. Looks like a metalworking version of a drum sander? Goes around, and up & down? Why would that be considered obsolete? It does not go around -- just up and down. There are various shapes of files which were available (and which are sometimes found if you are lucky even today). Round would be no problem with the rotation which you suggest, but the square, triangular, knife-shaped, elliptical, and others (with our without safe edges) would not be too happy to be rotated. As for why are they considered obsolete? Mostly, what they did (finish work on the manufacture of dies to produce the relief angles and such) is now done as part of the primary work pass using CNC. As a result, finding a source of the files is more difficult, and many people simply modify regular files in various ways. (Obviously, making a shank to clamp them on the opposite end of the file from where the normal shank lives. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#32
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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According to Dave Hinz :
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:02:29 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote: And any file used on rotating work in a lathe *must* have a handle, because there is a risk of the end of the file getting caught on a jaw of the chuck, Yes. and the file being driven, tang first, into your chest. How could it possibly do that, when you're standing off to the side as you should be when doing this sort of work? Because the presence of the handle is a secondary safety feature to be used in addition to the standing to the side. When someone is focused on the work, it is possible to forget the proper safety precautions. Having two things protecting the user is better than just one. MLA makes kits for building a die filer, but that needs more tools than you currently have. Do you have a link for MLA? Google finds me references to them but no site directly. You've already received that from someone else, so I won't duplicate it. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#33
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Tool Terms
DoN. Nichols wrote: According to : DoN. Nichols wrote: According to : [ ... ] Actually it never crossed my mind to rotate the work piece while machining.(I'd sooner put to the workpiece in the spidle). If you need to make a groove or a slot which forms only part of a circle, you'll need to rotate the workpiece in something like an index head or a rotary table. Or plunge and file until I get a more reasonable wet-up.(I'll be checking Home Depot to see if I can find some lathe files). Lathe files? I think that the answer is no -- given what Home Depot tends to carry. And any file used on rotating work in a lathe *must* have a handle, because there is a risk of the end of the file getting caught on a jaw of the chuck, and the file being driven, tang first, into your chest. I want to deburr, clean, upgrade gibs, screws, ect., and correct slop where needed on my lathe before I begin any project, and I've read here that files are some of the first basic tools I should have. If you mean filing the groove to the curve after drilling a bunch of holes to rough the shape, then what would be quite nice for the task is a die filer and the proper files for a die filer (which cuts on the draw, not the press, so it doesn't push the workpiece up from the table. Actually, at the moment the only thing I'd have to perform those operations on is Delrin. So plunge and file should be sufficient. Note that you will *not* be able to find a *new* die filer. They are considered obsolete, and the files from them are difficult to find as well. MLA makes kits for building a die filer, but that needs more tools than you currently have. Then that definitely wouldn't be an option. -snip- I assume that making a drawbar is not problem, Quite easy -- with a quick-and-dirty one using some allthread (long threaded rod), matching nuts, and a flat washer. Those endmill holders actually specify the thread, so you can get started on it now, if you so desire. Thanks. but do I really need to buy a collet closer?: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=2374 At that price, I would not bother to *try* to make one. :-) The tube is hollow, with internal threads to match the external threads on the back of the collet. You won't find a tap to match the threads on the back of the collet, so you would have to master the art of single-point threading. The nosepiece is a precise Morse taper (to match the inside of your spindle), and a precise internal taper and key (to match the collet), and is hardened and ground to size, not turned. Only with a Hardinge lathe, whose internal taper on the spindle matches the collets, can you do without that nosepiece. (Or on the very few lathes which compete directly with Hardinge as clones.) Then that specific collet closer is now on my Micro-Mark must get list. :-) 7582356634 5/8" DRILL CHUCK W/ STRAIGHT / MT / R8 SHANK ARBOR NEW! 1 US $18.95 [ ... ] And -- a 5/8" chuck takes up more of the limited distance between the tailstock and the spindle nose. For a 2MT tailstock ram, I would typically use a 3/8" chuck, or *maybe* a 1/2" one -- carefully. My 5/8" chuck is on a MT-3 arbor, not MT-2. I'd like to point out that I'm getting the MT2 version for the tailstock.: 7530390913 The MT-3 would not fit, anyway. But the arbor taper is not what defines the amount of space taken up -- it is the overall length of the chuck body and jaws, which is greater on a 5/8" than on a 1/2" (which you seem to have now settled upon.) I wouldn't say "settled".(7603005250) I like to cover all bases. :-) But I was thinking that perhaps I should use MT3 arbors on all three and get a separate 3/8" or 1/2" chuck just for the tailstock.(I should get a rotating tailstock chuck also). And little Machine Shop actually sells for for my specific lathe: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=1148 Hmm ... the note he ================================================== ==================== Chris' Tips If you purchase this product you will not have to cut the tang off the Morse taper. The arbor on this chuck is the correct length for the mini lathe. ================================================== ==================== suggests that this might be the best choice. And that your tailstock will not accommodate the tang on drills or other things, so there is not that anti-spin safety feature. I'll find out soon. Though I don't see the tang in the picture on the site, but isn't that needed to keep the chuck from rotating in the tailstock?(Reading between the lines I think the length of the tailstock morse taper is unconventional). I just received the 5/8" chuck, which by the way is just under 3" long. The arbor I received in a separate box, which has no tang, is an MT2 instead of the requested MT3. So I guess it is a good time to find out how it fits the tailstock of my lathe before I inform the seller what kind of arbors I want with the 1/2" and 3/8" chucks I won. Nevertheless, Plastics like Delrin will be a big part of my projects, so cutting forces wouldn't be as big a deal with those large chucks. Speaking of the tailstock. I was wondering what you thought about die holders. The one sold specifically for my lathe holds 13/16 inch O.D. dies for threading shafts. The 1/2 inch O.D. shank fits the larger tailstock chucks and has 3/8 inch hole for threaded stock to pass through. It's blackened steel with a set screw and wrench to hold the die. I prefer to single-point cut most threads, and for other things I prefer to use Geometric die heads in the turret on my lathe, though I have used die holders adapted to my lathe on rare occasions. They are sell an expensive 14 piece tap & die set: http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares...oduct&ID=14153 Most of those are probably smaller than you really need. But since I am already getting some wrenches(7524114193), I'll get only what I need for now *the same seller*. I believe these are the standard sizes: 7532135748 O.K. I'm not sure that you will need the larger ones in that set, but the whole price is cheap enough -- I just hope that the quality is there. I'll find out the hard way. Most, if not all of the stuff this seller auctions comes from China. The company's site is www.Shars.com BTW. I've noticed that the Little Machine Shop site seems to assume that if people use collets with their mini-lathes, they would be 3C collets.(So I assume that my specific needs that require 5C are not normal). The 5C collets are *gigantic* compared to what is normal with that lathe. And the major benefit with them on *larger* lathes is that you can pass 1" diameter stock through the lathe spindle and the collet, to do production work. (They are also cheaper than 3C collets of equal quality, because there are so many more made. BTW. I doubt the collets I now have are really precision. The 33 collets seem to be of four different brands.(At least going by the four different packages they came in). And speaking of gigantic that spin indexer is about 9" long from end to end. At least I'll have it for when I get a milling machine. :-) Most of my drill will have to be from the head stock because I'll need to be able to keep re-positioning the work to make a variety of holes and slots. O.K. Though a drill press is probably better for this most of the time. Ok. I'm still in the market for a good table-top drill press. O.K. The problem may be the intersection of "good" and "table top" for new drill presses. Most these days are very cheaply made. I guess that's why I'm *still* in the market. :-) Now that I come to think about it, perhaps I should just concentrate on getting a Mill/Drill instead. -snip- I'm looking into the plausiblity of making worm gears on this lathe. It can be done, though I have never done it. I'm searching for somne books/sites on this subject. I am however working on an idea for special gear-making jig. It's king of an upside-down "pendulum-type" holder located on the slide, with a crank that will ratchet the work. I'm afraid that I don't grasp how it works or precisely what it looks like. Imagine an arm at 90 degrees to horizontal. At the end of the arm is a platform on which will sit the gear material(metal disk). This platform will index, and the arm will tilt bringing the disk into contact with the rotating cutter.(My other idea involes the plaform sliding the disk horizontally into the cutter). Take a look at these: 7598678434 & 7598678968 [ ... ] I'm told by the seller that the Steel Max saws only come with a mild steel blade. So I'd need to purchase a separate stainless steel blade to cut through 1/4" S.S.(Whatever that means). I would first worry about the noise issue. While the lathe and the mill will be reasonably quiet, *this* thing will not. For the larger one, 1450 RPM, combined with the 80 tooth blade for SS, will make for about a 1.93 KHZ scream. Something which I might live with in my stand-alone dwelling, with the shop having replaced the two-car garage, but I don't think that using it in an apartment building would work out. Yess. The first thing I thought about was the noise also. I don't even think I coul duse it down in the storage room. But if I can make a cutting jig of some sort I could find someplace else to knock off enough plates because it is completely portable. And I'm assuming that there woul dbe more material wastse than from a capable bandsaw. Not much more -- unless you can benefit from a curved cut. If you really want to minimize material waste, find someone with a shear capable of cutting the material. There should be no waste with a careful operator. That would be cost prohibitive. The blades for this circular saw are about $60. And I wonder if one could fit on a table saw that was powerful enough.(Though I doubt it, because the whole set-up sounds like it's proprietary). Compare the speeds. I don't know what the spindle speed of a table saw is, but the 7-1/4" saw in your auction before runs at 3600 RPM, and probably would have serious problems at higher speeds. For aluminum and even brass, you would probably be O.K. but not for stainless. Ok. It's obviously best to just by the 4" X 4" plates pre-cut. Thanks a lot. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
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