Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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A recent discussion on tool posts has inspired me to ask if there
exists a dictionary of sorts for the various tools and accessories
associated with lathes and milling machines?

The couple of library books I've found so far haven't dealt with much
past the basics. And even the occasional mention of common items here
on the newsgroup rarely go into details because it is assume that all
those reading know exactly what the tool looks like and does.

I would like to be able to look up something like a "tailstock turret"
and find not only the basic description and it's purpose, but a picture
of what it looks like, how it's secured to the machine, reference to
the various types(shapes & materials), along with their pros and cons,
and any terms associated with their use.

In other words, somthing that'll teach me more than what I can get from
browsing catalogs.

If such a site or book exists, I'd appreciate any info.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

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Jerry Foster
 
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wrote in message
oups.com...
A recent discussion on tool posts has inspired me to ask if there
exists a dictionary of sorts for the various tools and accessories
associated with lathes and milling machines?

The couple of library books I've found so far haven't dealt with much
past the basics. And even the occasional mention of common items here
on the newsgroup rarely go into details because it is assume that all
those reading know exactly what the tool looks like and does.

I would like to be able to look up something like a "tailstock turret"
and find not only the basic description and it's purpose, but a picture
of what it looks like, how it's secured to the machine, reference to
the various types(shapes & materials), along with their pros and cons,
and any terms associated with their use.

In other words, somthing that'll teach me more than what I can get from
browsing catalogs.

If such a site or book exists, I'd appreciate any info.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


They're called "tool catalogs..."

Jerry


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Grant Erwin wrote:
Would you like fries with that? :-)



Naw, just a shake would be fine. I'm on a diet... :-)

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

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DoN. Nichols
 
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According to :
A recent discussion on tool posts has inspired me to ask if there
exists a dictionary of sorts for the various tools and accessories
associated with lathes and milling machines?

The couple of library books I've found so far haven't dealt with much
past the basics. And even the occasional mention of common items here
on the newsgroup rarely go into details because it is assume that all
those reading know exactly what the tool looks like and does.

I would like to be able to look up something like a "tailstock turret"
and find not only the basic description and it's purpose, but a picture
of what it looks like, how it's secured to the machine, reference to
the various types(shapes & materials), along with their pros and cons,
and any terms associated with their use.


O.K. For that one -- you might try to get the _Machine Shop
Practice_ by Moultrecht. It is a two volume book, which is occasionally
offered on sale by MSC (where I got mine), and other places.

This will also cover an overview of turret tooling, covering
things like a "roller box tool" and a "Geometric die head".

And -- it will show the powered turret lathes as well -- where
the turret derives power from the leadscrew, just as the carriage
cross-slide does.

Note that you will *not* find a bed turret for the machine which
you were considering last I knew. They tend to be for semi industrial
machines, including my 12X24" Clausing, which came with a bed turret
which matched the serial number of the lathe -- they came from the
factory together. I had to chase down a standard tailstock to use with
the lathe for non-production operations.

In other words, somthing that'll teach me more than what I can get from
browsing catalogs.


Things like the quick-change toolposts may not be well covered,
because the nicest ones are a bit too new to have been well covered by
the book in question.

If such a site or book exists, I'd appreciate any info.


You could try getting that pair from the library, or try to spot
them on eBay, or order them from MSC or some other tool vendor.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---


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Glenn
 
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Look for a copy of Audel's Machinists and Tool Makers Handy Book. My copy
is from 1941. It has illustrated pictures of many machines with the parts
identified and then much info on how to set them up and run them.
Go visit the library or a used book store an hunt up some of the older
machinery books. It won't tell you about CNC and not much about the modern
quick change toolposts but it will go a long way for you.
Glenn
wrote in message
oups.com...
A recent discussion on tool posts has inspired me to ask if there
exists a dictionary of sorts for the various tools and accessories
associated with lathes and milling machines?

The couple of library books I've found so far haven't dealt with much
past the basics. And even the occasional mention of common items here
on the newsgroup rarely go into details because it is assume that all
those reading know exactly what the tool looks like and does.

I would like to be able to look up something like a "tailstock turret"
and find not only the basic description and it's purpose, but a picture
of what it looks like, how it's secured to the machine, reference to
the various types(shapes & materials), along with their pros and cons,
and any terms associated with their use.

In other words, somthing that'll teach me more than what I can get from
browsing catalogs.

If such a site or book exists, I'd appreciate any info.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.



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Bugs
 
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Machinery's Handbook!
Bugs

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Thanks everyone for the advice.

I was actually already looking for Machinery's Handbook, so I hope to
get that soon.

I'm not looking to be a pain. But the reason for my question is because
I've spent the entire weekend in front of my pc in an attempt to cram
as much as possible, but I've found that all things aren't covered
anywhere near completely. They may be mentioned, but if you have never
used or seen one used(even if there is a picture of it) you wouldn't
always know where it goes, how it attaches, if it is compatible with
your machine, if it is the best tool of it's type for what you want to
do, ect.

After two days, I still can't find much info on "collet blocks" or
"draw bars". Or enough about indexing tools to figure out what exatly
I'd need to allow me to cut gears on my (specific)lathe.(Or what it
would look like for that matter). The last several hours I've been
researching Calipers and Indicators trying to figure out which ones are
best for determining the accuracy of a tube's I.D. and O.D. And then
taps are a whole other issue.

I'm not rich enough to start buying up stuff that sounds as though it
would work for me, and eBay auctions haven't helped a whole lot outside
of showing pictures of things that are hard to see anywhere else.

One Ebayer("czodda") has been auctioning a lot of tooling, but can't
tell me the size of any of it.

I could literally walk to this seller and pick up the stuff if I won
any of the auctions, but why bid on something that may not be
compatable with my machine? I don't know enough to know what I'm
looking at.

Anyway, thanks again.(Especially for listening). :-)

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

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DoN. Nichols
 
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According to :
Thanks everyone for the advice.

I was actually already looking for Machinery's Handbook, so I hope to
get that soon.


[ ... ]

After two days, I still can't find much info on "collet blocks" or


Try this page (assuming that it will work after I close my
browser):

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...PMT4NO=4713402

(It appears to work.)

Scroll down until you see the images. You should see a square
collet block, a hexagonal collet block, two threaded rings for closing
collets (there are no collets there, you will need to buy at least the
sizes which you expect to use), and a hand lever assembly for quickly
tightening and releasing the collets instead of having to tighten the
rings more slowly.

You can clamp the workpiece in a collet in the square block,
clamp the block in the vise on the milling attachment. and mill a flat
on the workpiece. You then loosen the vise, rotate the collet block one
flat, and mill the next flat. Repeat until you have all four sides.

The hexagonal block can be used to make hexagonal shapes (e.g.
bolt heads or nuts), or three-sided shapes. In the same way, the square
one can be used to make a simple pair of flats, instead of a square, if
that is what is needed.

This is one of the things which you *need* the MSC catalog for.
You could look it up in the index, and turn to the proper page, to at
least see what the blocks look like. That is page 1565 in the current
"Big Book". The previous page shows individual collets in the 5C size
(the ones which fit the blocks), which have hex or square holes to hold
workpieces of that shape. You have to step back to page 1562 to find
round collets, with differing prices for different grades of collets.
The "Import ones should suffice for this type of operation, at least.
The 7/16" one goes for $8.45, as do all of the other sizes in that
grade.

"draw bars".


A drawbar is a part of a milling machine, or a lathe fitted with
collets. You are unlikely to find them listed separately, and once you
have a lathe, you can make most styles as you need them.

Or enough about indexing tools to figure out what exatly
I'd need to allow me to cut gears on my (specific)lathe.


An indexing head is more often used on a milling machine than a
lathe. Most are too big for your lathe, even in milling machine mode,
though some small ones could be adapted.

There are several styles. An alternative name to look under is
"dividing head".

(Or what it
would look like for that matter).


The MSC catalog, again.

The last several hours I've been
researching Calipers and Indicators trying to figure out which ones are
best for determining the accuracy of a tube's I.D. and O.D.


Most indicators are better for showing how well centered a part
is than for measuring precisely. A plunger style dial indicator,
mounted on a proper stand, can be used to compare something to a set of
gauge blocks to get the best measurement. Normally, for measuring OD,
you want a good micrometer set of sufficient range. For ID measurement,
unless you have a mint handy, you will want to get a set of telescoping
gauges (again see the MSC catalog).

And then
taps are a whole other issue.


I lose count of how many pages dedicated to taps are in the MSC
catalog. :-)

I'm not rich enough to start buying up stuff that sounds as though it
would work for me, and eBay auctions haven't helped a whole lot outside
of showing pictures of things that are hard to see anywhere else.

One Ebayer("czodda") has been auctioning a lot of tooling, but can't
tell me the size of any of it.


I can tell you that the collets shown in that one auction are
*not* the 5C size which you would need -- and don't look to be in any
condition worth bidding on. There are actually two different sizes
there, and neither is of use to you at present.

The lot which is supposed to include a "Starrett micrometer"
does not appear to have one -- though I see an old Starrett "speed
indicator", which is no practical use to you.

I could literally walk to this seller and pick up the stuff if I won
any of the auctions, but why bid on something that may not be
compatable with my machine? I don't know enough to know what I'm
looking at.


Having looked at his auctions -- I would say skip him. He
doesn't know what he's selling. He can't provide good enough photos for
you to tell (or even me). And, given his shipping charge, I'll bet that
he would not allow you to walk over and pick up what you "won".

Leave him to the old tool collectors, who seem to be his target
market.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
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Tom
 
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wrote:

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I was actually already looking for Machinery's Handbook, so I hope to
get that soon.

I'm not looking to be a pain. But the reason for my question is because
I've spent the entire weekend in front of my pc in an attempt to cram
as much as possible, but I've found that all things aren't covered
anywhere near completely. They may be mentioned, but if you have never
used or seen one used(even if there is a picture of it) you wouldn't
always know where it goes, how it attaches, if it is compatible with
your machine, if it is the best tool of it's type for what you want to
do, ect.

After two days, I still can't find much info on "collet blocks" or
"draw bars". Or enough about indexing tools to figure out what exatly
I'd need to allow me to cut gears on my (specific)lathe.(Or what it
would look like for that matter). The last several hours I've been
researching Calipers and Indicators trying to figure out which ones are
best for determining the accuracy of a tube's I.D. and O.D. And then
taps are a whole other issue.

I'm not rich enough to start buying up stuff that sounds as though it
would work for me, and eBay auctions haven't helped a whole lot outside
of showing pictures of things that are hard to see anywhere else.

One Ebayer("czodda") has been auctioning a lot of tooling, but can't
tell me the size of any of it.

I could literally walk to this seller and pick up the stuff if I won
any of the auctions, but why bid on something that may not be
compatable with my machine? I don't know enough to know what I'm
looking at.

Anyway, thanks again.(Especially for listening). :-)

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


get a library card.


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Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
 
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Thanks everyone for the advice.

I was actually already looking for Machinery's Handbook, so I hope to
get that soon.

I'm not looking to be a pain. But the reason for my question is because
I've spent the entire weekend in front of my pc in an attempt to cram
as much as possible, but I've found that all things aren't covered
anywhere near completely. They may be mentioned, but if you have never
used or seen one used(even if there is a picture of it) you wouldn't
always know where it goes, how it attaches, if it is compatible with
your machine, if it is the best tool of it's type for what you want to
do, ect.

After two days, I still can't find much info on "collet blocks" or
"draw bars". Or enough about indexing tools to figure out what exatly
I'd need to allow me to cut gears on my (specific)lathe.(Or what it
would look like for that matter). The last several hours I've been
researching Calipers and Indicators trying to figure out which ones are
best for determining the accuracy of a tube's I.D. and O.D. And then
taps are a whole other issue.

I'm not rich enough to start buying up stuff that sounds as though it
would work for me, and eBay auctions haven't helped a whole lot outside
of showing pictures of things that are hard to see anywhere else.

One Ebayer("czodda") has been auctioning a lot of tooling, but can't
tell me the size of any of it.

I could literally walk to this seller and pick up the stuff if I won
any of the auctions, but why bid on something that may not be
compatable with my machine? I don't know enough to know what I'm
looking at.

Anyway, thanks again.(Especially for listening). :-)

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

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Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
 
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Try this page (assuming that it will work after I close my
browser):

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...PMT4NO=4713402

(It appears to work.)

Scroll down until you see the images. You should see a square
collet block, a hexagonal collet block, two threaded rings for closing
collets (there are no collets there, you will need to buy at least the
sizes which you expect to use), and a hand lever assembly for quickly
tightening and releasing the collets instead of having to tighten the
rings more slowly.


Ok. So the rings serve to lock the collets into the blocks, which are
held by the vise. I just have to figure out what size of 2 Flute end
mills I'll need and how best to "chuck" them.(I'll have to also search
for some 1/4" ball-end mills while I'm at it).

You can clamp the workpiece in a collet in the square block,
clamp the block in the vise on the milling attachment. and mill a flat
on the workpiece. You then loosen the vise, rotate the collet block one
flat, and mill the next flat. Repeat until you have all four sides.


Are there five sided collets?(Everything seems to jump from four to
six).

The hexagonal block can be used to make hexagonal shapes (e.g.
bolt heads or nuts), or three-sided shapes. In the same way, the square
one can be used to make a simple pair of flats, instead of a square, if
that is what is needed.


I went with square because I assume it would be easier to make a square
hole in a Delrin disk to allow it to fit over/on a square rod.

This is one of the things which you *need* the MSC catalog for.
You could look it up in the index, and turn to the proper page, to at
least see what the blocks look like. That is page 1565 in the current
"Big Book". The previous page shows individual collets in the 5C size
(the ones which fit the blocks), which have hex or square holes to hold
workpieces of that shape. You have to step back to page 1562 to find
round collets, with differing prices for different grades of collets.
The "Import ones should suffice for this type of operation, at least.
The 7/16" one goes for $8.45, as do all of the other sizes in that
grade.


I hope to receive an MSC catalog soon. I think I received an e-mail
that the catalog was unavailable the first time I tried.(At least I
think it was MSC).

Thanks for the info on collets and collet blocks. I assume that there
is a solution for 360 divisions. I'll definitely need that option for
future projects.(One of which will include making gears).

A drawbar is a part of a milling machine, or a lathe fitted with
collets. You are unlikely to find them listed separately, and once you
have a lathe, you can make most styles as you need them.


Great. BTW.
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=2224
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=2374


Or enough about indexing tools to figure out what exatly
I'd need to allow me to cut gears on my (specific)lathe.


An indexing head is more often used on a milling machine than a
lathe. Most are too big for your lathe, even in milling machine mode,
though some small ones could be adapted.


I'll have to search for the smallest one I can find and see what is
possible.

There are several styles. An alternative name to look under is
"dividing head".


Yes. In the Grizzly catalog I have there is one, and also indexing
rotary tables and chucks. BTW. There is a 3" rotary table(H6195) that
has a profile of 1.670".(But it doesn't index). :-(

One Ebayer("czodda") has been auctioning a lot of tooling, but can't
tell me the size of any of it.


I can tell you that the collets shown in that one auction are
*not* the 5C size which you would need -- and don't look to be in any
condition worth bidding on. There are actually two different sizes
there, and neither is of use to you at present.


That's good to hear.

The lot which is supposed to include a "Starrett micrometer"
does not appear to have one -- though I see an old Starrett "speed
indicator", which is no practical use to you.


I feel better that I didn't miss out on an opportunity so close by.

I could literally walk to this seller and pick up the stuff if I won
any of the auctions, but why bid on something that may not be
compatable with my machine? I don't know enough to know what I'm
looking at.


Having looked at his auctions -- I would say skip him. He
doesn't know what he's selling. He can't provide good enough photos for
you to tell (or even me). And, given his shipping charge, I'll bet that
he would not allow you to walk over and pick up what you "won".


Actually I asked and he said that he would actually prefer in-person
pick-ups.

Leave him to the old tool collectors, who seem to be his target
market.


He's located in "Little Italy". It's been some years but I should
explore that area again. I knew of a couple of machine shops as well as
a place that sold(and cut) scrap metals.(The seller probably work/s at
one of those places).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

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Ok. So the rings serve to lock the collets into the blocks, which are
held by the vise. I just have to figure out what size of 2 Flute end
mills I'll need and how best to "chuck" them.(I'll have to also search
for some 1/4" ball-end mills while I'm at it).


I'll try it again.. These 5C collets holding the work can be mounted in
the chuck or in the spindle with the tool at the conventional location
of the tool post.

Or I can use the collets(holding the work) inside collet blocks located
in the milling attachment with the tool in the chuck or preferrably in
an end mill holder in the spindle instead.

You can clamp the workpiece in a collet in the square block,
clamp the block in the vise on the milling attachment. and mill a flat
on the workpiece. You then loosen the vise, rotate the collet block one
flat, and mill the next flat. Repeat until you have all four sides.


Are there five sided collets?(Everything seems to jump from four to
six).


Ok. Now I know there are no 5 sided 5C collets.

The hexagonal block can be used to make hexagonal shapes (e.g.
bolt heads or nuts), or three-sided shapes. In the same way, the square
one can be used to make a simple pair of flats, instead of a square, if
that is what is needed.


I went with square because I assume it would be easier to make a square
hole in a Delrin disk to allow it to fit over/on a square rod.

This is one of the things which you *need* the MSC catalog for.
You could look it up in the index, and turn to the proper page, to at
least see what the blocks look like. That is page 1565 in the current
"Big Book". The previous page shows individual collets in the 5C size
(the ones which fit the blocks), which have hex or square holes to hold
workpieces of that shape. You have to step back to page 1562 to find
round collets, with differing prices for different grades of collets.
The "Import ones should suffice for this type of operation, at least.
The 7/16" one goes for $8.45, as do all of the other sizes in that
grade.


I would have bid over $100 for these but at the time I didn't know if
it was the round 5C collets that I needed:

An indexing head is more often used on a milling machine than a
lathe. Most are too big for your lathe, even in milling machine mode,
though some small ones could be adapted.


I'll have to search for the smallest one I can find and see what is
possible.

There are several styles. An alternative name to look under is
"dividing head".


Yes. In the Grizzly catalog I have there is one, and also indexing
rotary tables and chucks. BTW. There is a 3" rotary table(H6195) that
has a profile of 1.670".(But it doesn't index). :-(


It would be nice to have some sort of low profile, H/V 90 degree
tilting, indexing rotary table(with small vice or chuck-like jaws at
the perimeter) mounted to the compound slide that would have the
ability to extend the cross feed travel to at least half of the swing
so one can easily drill or mill opposite sides of a 7" diameter work
piece. :-)

Actually, a power-feeding assembly option to replace the tailstock
might work better than if put on the compound slide.(But that would be
some major modification). :-)

All of this would entail drilling *from* the head stock. I haven't read
anything about that, so I hope that is plausible.

Since I'm still a newbie(who hasn't even taken the lathe out of the box
yet) I'll have plenty of time before I get to all that. :-)

One Ebayer("czodda") has been auctioning a lot of tooling, but can't
tell me the size of any of it.


I can tell you that the collets shown in that one auction are
*not* the 5C size which you would need -- and don't look to be in any
condition worth bidding on. There are actually two different sizes
there, and neither is of use to you at present.


That's good to hear.

The lot which is supposed to include a "Starrett micrometer"
does not appear to have one -- though I see an old Starrett "speed
indicator", which is no practical use to you.


I feel better that I didn't miss out on an opportunity so close by.

I could literally walk to this seller and pick up the stuff if I won
any of the auctions, but why bid on something that may not be
compatable with my machine? I don't know enough to know what I'm
looking at.


Having looked at his auctions -- I would say skip him. He
doesn't know what he's selling. He can't provide good enough photos for
you to tell (or even me). And, given his shipping charge, I'll bet that
he would not allow you to walk over and pick up what you "won".


Actually I asked and he said that he would actually prefer in-person
pick-ups.

Leave him to the old tool collectors, who seem to be his target
market.


He's located in "Little Italy". It's been some years but I should
explore that area again. I knew of a couple of machine shops as well as
a place that sold(and cut) scrap metals.(The seller probably work/s at
one of those places).


As it turns out he is a she. I won a little something and will swing by
there to pick it up.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

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DoN. Nichols
 
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According to :
Ok. So the rings serve to lock the collets into the blocks, which are
held by the vise. I just have to figure out what size of 2 Flute end
mills I'll need and how best to "chuck" them.(I'll have to also search
for some 1/4" ball-end mills while I'm at it).


I'll try it again.. These 5C collets holding the work can be mounted in
the chuck or in the spindle with the tool at the conventional location
of the tool post.


I thought that I had posted something in response to the
previous one -- but I can't find it in the thread map now, so I guess
that it got lost somehow.

Anyway -- the 5C collets *cannot* be mounted in *your* lathe's
spindle. It is too small. You need at least a 1-3/8" bore through the
spindle to accept a 5C collet and drawbar. And -- you could never get a
properly sized machine for that up your stairs. So -- you will need to
use smaller collets in your spindle -- or get a Bison collet chuck head
to put the collets in place of a chuck on the end of your spindle.

Or I can use the collets(holding the work) inside collet blocks located
in the milling attachment with the tool in the chuck or preferrably in
an end mill holder in the spindle instead.


With the tool in an end-mill holder -- *not* in the chuck --
whether it is a lathe chuck or a drill chuck.

You can clamp the workpiece in a collet in the square block,
clamp the block in the vise on the milling attachment. and mill a flat
on the workpiece. You then loosen the vise, rotate the collet block one
flat, and mill the next flat. Repeat until you have all four sides.


Are there five sided collets?(Everything seems to jump from four to
six).


Ok. Now I know there are no 5 sided 5C collets.


And do you know *why*? That was part of what I had typed, and
apparently lost somehow.

The hexagonal block can be used to make hexagonal shapes (e.g.
bolt heads or nuts), or three-sided shapes. In the same way, the square
one can be used to make a simple pair of flats, instead of a square, if
that is what is needed.


I went with square because I assume it would be easier to make a square
hole in a Delrin disk to allow it to fit over/on a square rod.

This is one of the things which you *need* the MSC catalog for.
You could look it up in the index, and turn to the proper page, to at
least see what the blocks look like. That is page 1565 in the current
"Big Book". The previous page shows individual collets in the 5C size
(the ones which fit the blocks), which have hex or square holes to hold
workpieces of that shape. You have to step back to page 1562 to find
round collets, with differing prices for different grades of collets.
The "Import ones should suffice for this type of operation, at least.
The 7/16" one goes for $8.45, as do all of the other sizes in that
grade.


I would have bid over $100 for these but at the time I didn't know if
it was the round 5C collets that I needed:


All the 5C collets are round on the outside. There are ones
with holes to hold hexagonal or square workpieces -- but your workpieces
are round, and you are trying to make a square on the one, IIRC.

An indexing head is more often used on a milling machine than a
lathe. Most are too big for your lathe, even in milling machine mode,
though some small ones could be adapted.


I'll have to search for the smallest one I can find and see what is
possible.

There are several styles. An alternative name to look under is
"dividing head".


Yes. In the Grizzly catalog I have there is one, and also indexing
rotary tables and chucks. BTW. There is a 3" rotary table(H6195) that
has a profile of 1.670".(But it doesn't index). :-(


It -- *could* -- if there are provisions for plates of holes to
use in indexing. Some rotary tables have that feature, some don't.

It would be nice to have some sort of low profile, H/V 90 degree
tilting, indexing rotary table(with small vice or chuck-like jaws at
the perimeter) mounted to the compound slide that would have the
ability to extend the cross feed travel to at least half of the swing
so one can easily drill or mill opposite sides of a 7" diameter work
piece. :-)


This sounds like something which you will have to *make*. And,
I think that you will need bigger machines to make it.

Actually, a power-feeding assembly option to replace the tailstock
might work better than if put on the compound slide.(But that would be
some major modification). :-)


Some lathes, such as my 12x24" Clausing, have power cross-feed.
And of course, the compound has power axial feed (along the bed), which
can be used for some operations other than turning. I particular, the
Myford lathes tend to have multiple T-slots along the length of the
cross-slide, for mounting workpieces or special tooling directly to the
cross-slide. But -- Myfords are from the UK, are quite expensive, and
probably too heavy to get up your stairs (though maybe close).

All of this would entail drilling *from* the head stock. I haven't read
anything about that, so I hope that is plausible.


You mean running the drill bit in a holder in the spindle, and
moving the workpiece towards it? This is done on the cross-slide T
slots (on the Myfords and other machines with that capability), or with
a crotch holder in the tailstock to crank the hand-held workpiece into
the rotating drill bit.

Since I'm still a newbie(who hasn't even taken the lathe out of the box
yet) I'll have plenty of time before I get to all that. :-)


Take it out *now* and start using it. It will help you answer
some of your questions, and refine others before you ask them.

[ ... ]

The lot which is supposed to include a "Starrett micrometer"
does not appear to have one -- though I see an old Starrett "speed
indicator", which is no practical use to you.


[ ... ]

Actually I asked and he said that he would actually prefer in-person
pick-ups.

Leave him to the old tool collectors, who seem to be his target
market.


He's located in "Little Italy". It's been some years but I should
explore that area again. I knew of a couple of machine shops as well as
a place that sold(and cut) scrap metals.(The seller probably work/s at
one of those places).


As it turns out he is a she. I won a little something and will swing by
there to pick it up.


Explain to her that what she appears to be calling "Starrett
Micrometers" are in reality Starrett "speed indicators".

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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DoN. Nichols
 
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According to :
Anyway -- the 5C collets *cannot* be mounted in *your* lathe's
spindle. It is too small. You need at least a 1-3/8" bore through the
spindle to accept a 5C collet and drawbar. And -- you could never get a
properly sized machine for that up your stairs. So -- you will need to
use smaller collets in your spindle -- or get a Bison collet chuck head
to put the collets in place of a chuck on the end of your spindle.


Yes, I've seen the Bisons. But you originally recommended the 5C
collets, so I assume that is because the size(3/4") I mentioned I
wanted to work with would require the 5C type.


I recommended the 5C collets because that is the only size in
which the collet blocks are made which you would need to accomplish
milling a square on a workpiece without an index head.

I *know* that they will not fit your lathe directly, and I feel
that a Bison collet chuck may not be steady enough on such a small
spindle, as it sticks way out where it is more subject to chatter from
the spindle flexing.

Or I can use the collets(holding the work) inside collet blocks located
in the milling attachment with the tool in the chuck or preferrably in
an end mill holder in the spindle instead.


With the tool in an end-mill holder -- *not* in the chuck --
whether it is a lathe chuck or a drill chuck.


I'm going to try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7592207825

Providing the chuck jaws open at least 2.4 inches.


I don't consider this to be any better than the Bison collet
chuck in terms of rigidity. And I *think* that the only way to chuck
that in your late is with reversed jaws, which produce too little grip
for that amount of extension.

Funny how "Less then .0002 total run-out" is mentioned, when that
really means little on a set up like that.


That figure is quite important in a normal spindle nose collet
adaptor, but it is meaningless held in a 3-jaw chuck. (You might be
able to get away with a 4-jaw chuck, if you take time to carefully
center it each time you use it -- but the Bison would at least be more
convenient -- and one with the adjust-tru feature should require setting
only once.

I see that you already have it. At least the price was not too
bad. :-)

[ ... ]

Are there five sided collets?(Everything seems to jump from four to
six).

Ok. Now I know there are no 5 sided 5C collets.


And do you know *why*? That was part of what I had typed, and
apparently lost somehow.


Hmmm. It definitely didn't show up on Google Groups(or Interbulletin).
It must have vanished somewhere in the chain *before* it reached the
newsgroups.


It may have been in the e-mail which was trying to go to an old
and no longer good e-mail address -- which you *still* have in your
newsgroup "From: " header.

Since I'm still a newbie(who hasn't even taken the lathe out of the box
yet) I'll have plenty of time before I get to all that. :-)


Take it out *now* and start using it. It will help you answer
some of your questions, and refine others before you ask them.


With no tooling yet I'd have to wait. I don't want to start this first
project, and have to stop and do more research to determine what I am
missing so I can continue.


You should not start the project with *no* experience. Take it
out, set it up, and play with it. Learn what it can do, and what you
have to do to make it do what you want. You *will* make mistakes, and
it is better to make most of them playing with expendible trial
workpieces instead of the serious ones which you are trying to make.
Try sub-sets of what you need to do, and this way you can learn more
things which you may need to do them.

Explain to her that what she appears to be calling "Starrett
Micrometers" are in reality Starrett "speed indicators".


She didn't seem like the type that you could explain that too. :-)


Sigh!

BTW. Just to give you an idea of where I'm at. The following is my list
of things to get.(At least most of them). The items with question marks
are things I haven't decided on yet and still researching. The one's
with the asterisks are pretty much decided upon.

Tool Post
* AXA QC(Wedge Style))


Good -- with the modified compound to adjust the height
properly.

Tool Holders-For 5/16" shanks(Unless 3/8" is possible)


The AXA holders should accept at least 1/2" shanks. 5/8" is
for the BXA size of toolpost and holders. 3/4" for the CXA size. I
consider 1/2" to be the minimum. 5/16" and 3/8" are too small.

* A) Turning holder
* B) Facing
* C) Boring holder


Typically, the turning and facing holders are pretty much the
same. The boring ones will have a V bottom groove to hold round shanked
boring bars. (And the larger ones will be made to hold even larger
boring bars -- I think up to 7/8" for the AXA series. I know that I can
hold 1" ones in my BXA holders.

* D) Cut-off(Parting) holder


Yes. Add in a T-profile paring tool to go in that holder.
Cobalt steel. The "Mo-Max brand is what I use. Expensive, but good.

* E) Threading(Inside/Outisde) holder


Those are the same as the boring/facing holders. (Though the
tooling which goes in them is different.)

* F) 5C Collet Tool Holder


Ideally, not the one which you just won on eBay. For end mills,
you are better with Morse taper collets or endmill holders to fit your
lathe spindle's taper.

For your work holding, the 5C are only for the collet block, and
the lathe chucks for what you are turing in the spindle.

* G) Morse Taper Tool Holder


O.K. As above.

* H) DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder?


They are made. Look for a Morse taper holder which fits the
toolpost. You may have to go to genuine Aloris for this. Make the
Morse taper the same as what you have in the tailstock, so you can use
the same drill chuck in there.

I) Universal Threading & Grooving Tool Holder?


Probably better off with carbide insert tooling for threading.
You'll need a separate one for internal threading, and you'll need to be
more careful of crashes which are easier to create when doing boring or
internal threading.

Lathe Tools(Indexable where possible)
* A) Facing
* B) Turning


The tools are the same -- other than the angle. Look at the
Aloris AXA-16N, which will hold two triangular carbide inserts, one for
turning and one for facing in the same holder. I have the BXA
equivalent and use it much of the time. Because of the 'N' in the part
name, it accepts negative rake insert tooling, which is available with a
groove which lets you actually use it as positive rake tooling in the
negative rake holder. This gives you six corners which you can use
before replacing the insert Rotate it for three, then flip it over.
(Assuming that you have not broken the insert with a crash.)

* C) Boring(3/8)
* D) Threading(Outside)
* E) Threading(Inside)


Insert tooling for D and E, and maybe for C.

Avoid the cheap sets of insert tooling which offer five tools in
one set, each at a slightly different angle. The inserts tend to break
easily, there is no carbide anvil to support the inserts, and the
inserts are more expensive than common industrial ones.

* F) Cut-off(Parting)?


I've given my advice above with the holder.

G) Grooving?


You can do some of this with the parting tool, as long as it is
not too narrow.

H) Chip Breaker?


Determined by the grind of the insert -- or the HSS tool bit
which you grind yourself.

I) Tool ground?


You mean HSS (High Speed Steel)? Get some of those for things
for which there is no insert tooling available, or when you need
especially sharp (good finish on some plastics.)

J) Trepanning tool?


Special purpose -- and better made by hand from the HSS bits for
a given need.

K) Fly cutter?


For finishing large surfaces with a mill. I don't think that a
lathe set up as a mill will be rigid enough for the task.

L) Radii Cutter?


Do you want to turn balls? If so, then this is nice. But most
of them aren't the right size for your machine.

M) Rotary Burrs(Shape D & A)?


I don't know the shapes by name. But beware that they produce
nasty sharp chips.

End Mill Holder(For MT3 spindle)


Several -- for the different sizes of end mills which you need
to use.

Milling Tools(Indexable where possible)
* 2 Flute End Mill?


2 flute for milling slots, among other things.

* 1/4" Ball-End Mill?


For special shaping, or half-round bottomed grooves.

Face Mill?


*Not* with a lathe acting as a milling machine. Those take a
*lot* of power. Probably not with *any* milling machine which you can
get up to your apartment.

Boring head & shank?


Again -- better used with a true milling machine, rather than in
a lathe. For boring on a lathe, you normally mount the workpiece in a
chuck, or on a faceplate, and turn it, while boring.

End Mill Grinding Fixture?


Do you have a surface grinder? (*Not* a bench grinder.) If not,
the fixture won't do you any good.

5C Precision 3-Jaw Chuck?


These are small 3-jaw chucks mounted on a 5C collet shank. They
are nice for quickly fitting a small 3-jaw chuck to a large lathe
spindle. I don't see any benefit to you from one at present.

* 5C Collets(round)
* 5C Collet Blocks(4 & 6)?


Yes -- for milling square or hex shapes.

* 5C Collet Chuck


Perhaps -- for light work with larger workpieces.

5C Collet stops?


Useful if you want to do production which requires a bunch of
workpieces all set to the same depth in the collets. Probably won't
work well with the collet block.

2 PINION LOW PROFILE BISON 5" 5C COLLET CHUCK?


I don't know this one. Unless it is the standard one from
Bison. Better to get the one with the adjust-tru feature. This allows
you to tune out any remaining error in concentricity.

* MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach).


?

* Morse Taper Sleeve 3MT to 2MT


O.K.

* Steady Rest(Micro-Mark OEM)
* Follower Rest(Micro-Mark OEM)


Good.

* Face Plate


Does this not come standard with the lathe? The other two
*should* come standard with it, but probably don't.

* MT2 Live Ball Bearing Center
* Drill chuck & Arbor(2MT to 33JT)


O.K.

* Center Drills #1,2,3,4,5
* T-Slot Cleaners


Do you have any T-slots yet? Until you get a milling machine,
you probably don't need this -- and if you *do* need it, you need one to
fit your T-slots on your mill. They come in different sizes.

* Chucking Reamers
* 60 Degree Center Reamer Set


???

5" 4-Jaw Chuck(w/adaptor)?


O.K. Large but it should fit the machine.

lathe Dog?


Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range
of sizes which you expect to turn between centers.

Milling Attachment?


If you can find one for your machine -- or adapt one made for a
machine of similar size.

Rotary Table?
Dividing Head?
Index Plates?


Once you get a milling machine -- and the machine's size will
determine the size of what you want to get.

* Micrometer
* Telescoping gauges
* Run-out indicator
Protractor
Angle Gauge Set


A good bevel protractor should do for most anything which you
really are able to machine with your equipment.

Depth Gauge
Divider
Machinists Scriber
Trammel


This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very
large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you
beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider.

BTW Consider a hermaphrodyte caliper as one of the useful divider
class tools.

Tapping(Tapper) Wrench?


Multiple ones -- for different sizes of taps. Small ones won't
hold large taps. Large ones are too difficult to control well to avoid
breaking small taps.

Die?


Not just one. How many threads will you need to cut? One die
for each. (Assuming that you can't cut the thread directly on the
lathe.)

Bench Block? + ?
Hand Reamers?
Cutting/Tapping fluid?

Bandsaw?
Bench Grinder?


How much will your apartment floor hold? Even with small
machines, you're building up a collection of tools there. The bandsaw,
and a *good* bench grinder will weigh as much as the lathe, I suspect.

Good luck,
DoN.
--
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DoN. Nichols
 
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According to jim rozen :
In article rs.com, DoN.
Nichols says...

I recommended the 5C collets because that is the only size in
which the collet blocks are made which you would need to accomplish
milling a square on a workpiece without an index head.


As an aside, the following is a very nice project for new machine
owners: 3C collet blocks.


That sounds like an excellent project. And maybe 3C would even
fit his lathe (with a proper spindle nose adaptor). But, IIRC, 3C maxes
out at 1/2" maximum grip diameter, which is not large enough for the
workpiece, IIRC.

Starting with hex, or square CRS stock, one bores out for a 3C collet
to fit, including the taper on the working end. Press in a small pin,
and fabricate the nut and pin wrench to tighten things up.

Of course they should be heat-treated and ground, but for most hobby
work simple CRS stock as supplied works just fine. The essence of the
project BTW (aside from producing usefull tooling) is learning to
indicate and bore the hole and taper accurately with respect to the
outer dimensions of the stock.

I've still got mine, from my 9" SB model A days.


Nice!

Thanks,
DoN.

--
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I'm going to try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7592207825


Providing the chuck jaws open at least 2.4 inches.


I don't consider this to be any better than the Bison collet
chuck in terms of rigidity. And I *think* that the only way to chuck
that in your late is with reversed jaws, which produce too little grip
for that amount of extension.

Funny how "Less then .0002 total run-out" is mentioned, when that
really means little on a set up like that.


That figure is quite important in a normal spindle nose collet
adaptor, but it is meaningless held in a 3-jaw chuck. (You might be
able to get away with a 4-jaw chuck, if you take time to carefully
center it each time you use it -- but the Bison would at least be more
convenient -- and one with the adjust-tru feature should require setting
only once.

I see that you already have it. At least the price was not too
bad. :-)


Actually, I didn't think I'd win it looking at the ended auctions. I
bid low because I figuerd that anything that is supposed to be held in
the chuck taht way couldn't be the best solution.

Now, I 'm looking at a 5" 4-Jaw, because I still need to be able to
turned those 4-1/2" square plate I mentioned.

Are there five sided collets?(Everything seems to jump from four to
six).

Ok. Now I know there are no 5 sided 5C collets.

And do you know *why*? That was part of what I had typed, and
apparently lost somehow.


Here it is:

" Picture trying to hold an odd side count object in a vise. The same
for a wrench. About the only thing that I know of which commonly has
five sides is the fittings on fire hydrants, so normal wrenches won't
work on them, and only people with the right special wrench can turn
them on or off. :-)"

Though I guess it would only be worth it for high production, if one
had a collet vise where one of the two jaws were flat and the other
angled at 72 degress to clamp the opposite two sides of the collet
block it would work. Better yet, an insert on one side with that proper
angle would allow use of a normal vise.(If I could draw ASCII and have
it come out correctly, I;d illustrate it).

For unusual counts, you need a dividing head, or an index head.


You should not start the project with *no* experience. Take it
out, set it up, and play with it. Learn what it can do, and what you
have to do to make it do what you want. You *will* make mistakes, and
it is better to make most of them playing with expendible trial
workpieces instead of the serious ones which you are trying to make.
Try sub-sets of what you need to do, and this way you can learn more
things which you may need to do them.


Perhaps I could use this time working on the lathes tolerance/accuracy
(Of course I'd have to get those gauges in a hurry).

Tool Post
* AXA QC(Wedge Style))


Good -- with the modified compound to adjust the height
properly.


??? I was just about to bid on this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7593068191

But I'm not sure about the "modified compound" you mention.

Tool Holders-For 5/16" shanks(Unless 3/8" is possible)


The AXA holders should accept at least 1/2" shanks. 5/8" is
for the BXA size of toolpost and holders. 3/4" for the CXA size. I
consider 1/2" to be the minimum. 5/16" and 3/8" are too small.


Ok. I was stuck on 5/16" because that is what they say the size is for
the OEM tool post of my lathe(which I will be getting rid of). I guess
it's besst to shoot for 1/2".(5/8 & 3/4" is the sizes for the boring
tool holder).

So here goes.(Not taking into account any tool holders that may already
come with the tool post I buy).

A) Turning/Facing/ Threading(outside)/Threading(inside)
B) Boring
C) Cut-off/ T-profileparing

* F) 5C Collet Tool Holder


Ideally, not the one which you just won on eBay. For end mills,
you are better with Morse taper collets or endmill holders to fit your
lathe spindle's taper.


So I'd have to decide wether or not to stick with end mill holders or
get another set of collets(3C) for the spindle. Hmmm. The end mill
holders would seem to be more reliable, but the 3C would allow me to
work hold.(I did win that 5C collet chuck on eBay that I may be able to
use for light work at least).

I'm also investigating expanding and step collets. Sigh.

BTW. "F) 5C Collet Tool Holder" was a referrence to a tool holder for
the tool post.

(Perhaps I can make a "collet block" tool holder for indexing). :-)

For your work holding, the 5C are only for the collet block, and
the lathe chucks for what you are turing in the spindle.

* G) Morse Taper Tool Holder


O.K. As above.


"G) Morse Taper Tool Holder" also refers to a *tool post* tool holder.

* H) DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder?


They are made. Look for a Morse taper holder which fits the
toolpost. You may have to go to genuine Aloris for this. Make the
Morse taper the same as what you have in the tailstock, so you can use
the same drill chuck in there.


Ok. Let's see. No "DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder".All I need is the
Morse Taper #2 toll holder to allow me to use the center and regular
drills that I'd normally use on the tail stock, correct?

I) Universal Threading & Grooving Tool Holder?


Probably better off with carbide insert tooling for threading.
You'll need a separate one for internal threading, and you'll need to be
more careful of crashes which are easier to create when doing boring or
internal threading.


Crashes?

Ok. Let's see. Forget the Universal and just use a thick parting tool
in the cut-off tool holder for grooving, correct?

Avoid the cheap sets of insert tooling which offer five tools in
one set, each at a slightly different angle. The inserts tend to break
easily, there is no carbide anvil to support the inserts, and the
inserts are more expensive than common industrial ones.


I'm glad you mentioned that. I've been eye-balling "cheap" sets of
insert tooling on eBay.

H) Chip Breaker?


Determined by the grind of the insert -- or the HSS tool bit
which you grind yourself.


I still don't know what a "chip breaker" is.

I) Tool ground?


You mean HSS (High Speed Steel)? Get some of those for things
for which there is no insert tooling available, or when you need
especially sharp (good finish on some plastics.)


Will do.

J) Trepanning tool?


Special purpose -- and better made by hand from the HSS bits for
a given need.


I didn't know what this was either until you mentioned it when we were
discussing making a circular "trench" in stainless steel..

K) Fly cutter?


For finishing large surfaces with a mill. I don't think that a
lathe set up as a mill will be rigid enough for the task.


That's what I was thinking.

L) Radii Cutter?


Do you want to turn balls? If so, then this is nice. But most
of them aren't the right size for your machine.


If I could find it, it would probably be too expensive. And it's
probably better to just but those ball knobs than to try to turn 303
stainless to get them.

M) Rotary Burrs(Shape D & A)?


I don't know the shapes by name. But beware that they produce
nasty sharp chips.


D is a ball end, and A is a cylindrical"no cut" end.(But I'mthinking I
won't need these).

End Mill Grinding Fixture?


Do you have a surface grinder? (*Not* a bench grinder.) If not,
the fixture won't do you any good.


The 2 Flute end mill will be indexable, but I'd still have to figure
out a way to sharpen the ball end mill.

5C Precision 3-Jaw Chuck?


These are small 3-jaw chucks mounted on a 5C collet shank. They
are nice for quickly fitting a small 3-jaw chuck to a large lathe
spindle. I don't see any benefit to you from one at present.


Since it doesn't index, I don't either.

5C Collet stops?


Useful if you want to do production which requires a bunch of
workpieces all set to the same depth in the collets. Probably won't
work well with the collet block.


So I guess I won't really have a use for collet stops.(Even if I get
another set of collets(3C) for work holding in the spindle).

2 PINION LOW PROFILE BISON 5" 5C COLLET CHUCK?


I don't know this one. Unless it is the standard one from
Bison. Better to get the one with the adjust-tru feature. This allows
you to tune out any remaining error in concentricity.

* MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach).


?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7591760352
I was discussin it in another thread.("Using A Rotabroach Cutter In A
Lathe")

* Steady Rest(Micro-Mark OEM)
* Follower Rest(Micro-Mark OEM)


Good.

* Face Plate


Does this not come standard with the lathe? The other two
*should* come standard with it, but probably don't.


You mean the rests? Outside of change gears, this lathe(which I think
is the costliest of it's type) came with very little.(I guess they
figured that the extra 2 inches in length and the digital read-outs
were enough).

* Chucking Reamers
* 60 Degree Center Reamer Set


???


I'll hold off on the chucking reamers. I have to learn more about
manual reaming anyway so I can make those tin holes in little rods.

And the 60 degree center reamer set was for when I was thinking of
making a tool holder that could be centered by having a rear hole in
the smae shape as the tail stock center.

lathe Dog?


Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range
of sizes which you expect to turn between centers.


And this is the one commonly mentioned item that I've not yet read
about a purpose for.

Milling Attachment?


If you can find one for your machine -- or adapt one made for a
machine of similar size.


I'm told that the OEM isn't worth it and that it is best to just make
my own attachment with an angle plate of some sort.

Rotary Table?
Dividing Head?
Index Plates?


Once you get a milling machine -- and the machine's size will
determine the size of what you want to get.


Actually, I've been studying these items because I've been working on
designing a small indexing jig for drilling/slotting plastic(Delrin),
and I'll probably pick up some index plates to use in it's design.

* Micrometer
* Telescoping gauges
* Run-out indicator
Protractor
Angle Gauge Set


A good bevel protractor should do for most anything which you
really are able to machine with your equipment.


Actually, I already have one of those, which magnifier, blades, ect..

Depth Gauge
Divider
Machinists Scriber
Trammel


This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very
large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you
beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider.


Actually, the items I was looking at int he HF catalog are quite small.

BTW Consider a hermaphrodyte caliper as one of the useful divider
class tools.


Ok. Thanks.

Tapping(Tapper) Wrench?


Multiple ones -- for different sizes of taps. Small ones won't
hold large taps. Large ones are too difficult to control well to avoid
breaking small taps.

Die?


Not just one. How many threads will you need to cut? One die
for each. (Assuming that you can't cut the thread directly on the
lathe.)


I've been looking at sets. All I need to make are standard holes from
1/8" to the larger bolt sizes. I still need to find a site that deals
with the nomenclature.

Bench Block? + ?
Hand Reamers?
Cutting/Tapping fluid?

Bandsaw?
Bench Grinder?


How much will your apartment floor hold? Even with small
machines, you're building up a collection of tools there. The bandsaw,
and a *good* bench grinder will weigh as much as the lathe, I suspect.


Well, the floor can support me and I weight well over three times what
the basic lathe weighs.(And well over twice it's length). :-)

The basic machine is only 90lbs(which I think is lighter than most in
it's class). So much for that "more massive bedway" statement in their
advertisment.(They do call it's .47 hp motor powerful).

Anyway, The bandsaw would be for cutting that 1/4" thick stainless I
mentioned.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

  #18   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
DoN. Nichols
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tool Terms

According to :

I'm going to skip over some of this, because I am way behind in
newsreading, and I expect to be away form home helping a friend replace
the spindle in his lathe most of tomorrow, which would make things
worse. I'll answer this one, and skip over whatever other ones you
post.

[ ... ]

I see that you already have it. At least the price was not too
bad. :-)


Actually, I didn't think I'd win it looking at the ended auctions. I
bid low because I figuerd that anything that is supposed to be held in
the chuck taht way couldn't be the best solution.

Now, I 'm looking at a 5" 4-Jaw, because I still need to be able to
turned those 4-1/2" square plate I mentioned.


O.K.

[ ... ]

You should not start the project with *no* experience. Take it
out, set it up, and play with it. Learn what it can do, and what you
have to do to make it do what you want. You *will* make mistakes, and
it is better to make most of them playing with expendible trial
workpieces instead of the serious ones which you are trying to make.
Try sub-sets of what you need to do, and this way you can learn more
things which you may need to do them.


Perhaps I could use this time working on the lathes tolerance/accuracy
(Of course I'd have to get those gauges in a hurry).


You could spend part of the time doing the traditional Asian"
machine tool mantra" of taking it apart, stoning or filing burrs off of
sliding parts, replacing the screws with ones of good metal and the
like.

This will make it a better machine. The sort of thing which the
factory *should* have done, but the Asian factories typically do not.

Tool Post
* AXA QC(Wedge Style))


Good -- with the modified compound to adjust the height
properly.


??? I was just about to bid on this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7593068191

But I'm not sure about the "modified compound" you mention.


The "modified compound" was what the web site you pointed me to
was offering to allow the use of an AXA sized toolpost on this small a
lathe. With the standard compound, the toolpost will be too high, and
you won't be able to adjust the tools to centerline.

[ ... ]

So here goes.(Not taking into account any tool holders that may already
come with the tool post I buy).


I'll be skipping over most of this.

[ ... ]

Ideally, not the one which you just won on eBay. For end mills,
you are better with Morse taper collets or endmill holders to fit your
lathe spindle's taper.


So I'd have to decide wether or not to stick with end mill holders or
get another set of collets(3C) for the spindle. Hmmm. The end mill
holders would seem to be more reliable, but the 3C would allow me to
work hold.(I did win that 5C collet chuck on eBay that I may be able to
use for light work at least).


Yes!

I'm also investigating expanding and step collets. Sigh.


The expanding ones are mostly available in watchmaker's lathe
sizes. The same for pre-made step collets, though there are soft
collets designed to be machined to make custom sized collets. But these
latter are typically 5C size -- so again you are out of luck.

BTW. "F) 5C Collet Tool Holder" was a referrence to a tool holder for
the tool post.


I've not seen a 5C tool holder for even a BXA sized toolpost,
let alone a AXA sized one.

(Perhaps I can make a "collet block" tool holder for indexing). :-)


Yes -- that would be a good task to get started learning your
lathe and its capabilities.

For your work holding, the 5C are only for the collet block, and
the lathe chucks for what you are turning in the spindle.

* G) Morse Taper Tool Holder


O.K. As above.


"G) Morse Taper Tool Holder" also refers to a *tool post* tool holder.


[ ... ]

Ok. Let's see. No "DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder".All I need is the
Morse Taper #2 toll holder to allow me to use the center and regular
drills that I'd normally use on the tail stock, correct?


Yes -- with the problem of getting lateral centering each time
you use them which I mentioned before.

I) Universal Threading & Grooving Tool Holder?


Probably better off with carbide insert tooling for threading.
You'll need a separate one for internal threading, and you'll need to be
more careful of crashes which are easier to create when doing boring or
internal threading.


Crashes?


Unintended contact of moving parts with stationary parts of the
lathe -- with the workpiece involved or not involved. An example is
when the carriage moves close enough to the chuck so it gets hit by the
jaws. Sometimes, it is just harmless nicks, sometimes it is serious
damage to the machine.

And sometimes, it is simply feeding too aggressively for the
insert tooling and thus breaking the tooling.

The problems with inside threading and boring is that you can't
see the cutting edge during most of the task, so you have a greater
chance of it hitting something which you don't want.

Ok. Let's see. Forget the Universal and just use a thick parting tool
in the cut-off tool holder for grooving, correct?


A thin one can be used in multiple passes, and is less load on
the machine's motor.

Avoid the cheap sets of insert tooling which offer five tools in
one set, each at a slightly different angle. The inserts tend to break
easily, there is no carbide anvil to support the inserts, and the
inserts are more expensive than common industrial ones.


I'm glad you mentioned that. I've been eye-balling "cheap" sets of
insert tooling on eBay.


I was afraid of that.

H) Chip Breaker?


Determined by the grind of the insert -- or the HSS tool bit
which you grind yourself.


I still don't know what a "chip breaker" is.


Oh -- I thought that you were asking whether you should get one.
It is a geometry in the insert or toolbit which causes the chips to curl
more than they can tolerate, so they break off frequently. Otherwise,
you can wind up with long spiral chips, which look pretty, but which can
get tangled up in the spinning workpiece and the chuck. And they often
have rather nasty sharp edges. Your stainless steel is probably one of
the flavors which will make the nasty ones.

[ ... ]

J) Trepanning tool?


Special purpose -- and better made by hand from the HSS bits for
a given need.


I didn't know what this was either until you mentioned it when we were
discussing making a circular "trench" in stainless steel..


O.K.

[ ... ]

L) Radii Cutter?


Do you want to turn balls? If so, then this is nice. But most
of them aren't the right size for your machine.


If I could find it, it would probably be too expensive. And it's
probably better to just but those ball knobs than to try to turn 303
stainless to get them.


The good ones are too big for your machine. And will probably
put too much of a load on it. And stainless would be a real pain to
make the balls from. Pay someone else who does it for a living, and use
your time for something easier.

[ ... ]

End Mill Grinding Fixture?


Do you have a surface grinder? (*Not* a bench grinder.) If not,
the fixture won't do you any good.


The 2 Flute end mill will be indexable, but I'd still have to figure
out a way to sharpen the ball end mill.


An end mill grinding fixture is only for the square ended end
mills. For a ball end mill, you will need a serious tool and cutter
grinder, and quite a bit of time to learn to use it properly. I don't
have one, and have never had a chance to learn one. It will be a lot
cheaper to just buy new ball end mills as needed -- or if you are
dulling them a lot, find a service which will sharpen them for you.

[ ... ]

* MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach).


?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7591760352
I was discussin it in another thread.("Using A Rotabroach Cutter In A
Lathe")


*Please* -- when you post eBay auctions, just post the auction
number (7591760352 in the above), rather than the whole URL. That is
all that *I* use, and nobody else seems to be following this thread any
more.

Did you notice that this one is in England? The currency
exchange can be a pain, and shipping can take forever.

It looks interesting -- though it is probably made for a mag
base drill, not a lathe.

* Steady Rest(Micro-Mark OEM)
* Follower Rest(Micro-Mark OEM)


Good.

* Face Plate


Does this not come standard with the lathe? The other two
*should* come standard with it, but probably don't.


You mean the rests?


The face plate should come standard with the lathe. The steady
and follower rests will have to come from the importer (Micro-Mark in
this case) as they don't cross over to other machines very well.

Outside of change gears, this lathe(which I think
is the costliest of it's type) came with very little.(I guess they
figured that the extra 2 inches in length and the digital read-outs
were enough).


:-)

[ ... ]

And the 60 degree center reamer set was for when I was thinking of
making a tool holder that could be centered by having a rear hole in
the smae shape as the tail stock center.


That is the function normally performed by the center drills.
(Also listed as drill and countersink in the catalogs.) That reamer may
be needed for precision center holes when working on a precision
grinder, but not for normal lathe work.

lathe Dog?


Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range
of sizes which you expect to turn between centers.


And this is the one commonly mentioned item that I've not yet read
about a purpose for.


O.K. Think of a workpiece held between centers (a ball bearing
live center in the tailstock, and a solid center in the headstock).
This holds the workpiece perfectly on center -- but what turns the
workpiece. The surface area of contact between the headstock center and
the workpiece is too small to put any significant torque into it. A
lathe dog has a hole which slips over the workpiece, with a setscrew to
clamp it to the workpiece. The dog typically has a bent tail which
engages a slot in the driver faceplate. Some have straight tails, and
are driven by a bolt run through the faceplate and held by a nut.

[ ... ]

Rotary Table?
Dividing Head?
Index Plates?


Once you get a milling machine -- and the machine's size will
determine the size of what you want to get.


Actually, I've been studying these items because I've been working on
designing a small indexing jig for drilling/slotting plastic(Delrin),
and I'll probably pick up some index plates to use in it's design.


Note that the typical index plates are designed for different
gear ratios on different index heads. Mine is a 40:1 ratio, some are
20:1, and some are 90:1. You need to match the index plates to whatever
gearing is present in the index head which you buy or make.

[ ... ]

A good bevel protractor should do for most anything which you
really are able to machine with your equipment.


Actually, I already have one of those, which magnifier, blades, ect..


O.K. That should suffice.

[ ... ]

Trammel


This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very
large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you
beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider.


Actually, the items I was looking at int he HF catalog are quite small.


Hmm ... normally a trammel is designed to take the place of a
compass or dividers where a standard design is too large to be easy to
use. There are trammel point sets designed to clamp onto a standard
yardstick for a cheap way to do it. I have a nice Starrett one with a
spare bar to allow handling a radius of up to 18", IIRC.

[ ... ]

Die?


Not just one. How many threads will you need to cut? One die
for each. (Assuming that you can't cut the thread directly on the
lathe.)


I've been looking at sets. All I need to make are standard holes from
1/8" to the larger bolt sizes. I still need to find a site that deals
with the nomenclature.


Beware of carbon steel dies. They are too brittle, and will
break or will chip teeth. You want HSS taps and or dies. The dies are
only needed for making external threads, which you should be able to do
on the lathe. The taps are more useful to you because internal
threading on a lathe of the smaller sizes is quite difficult.

The dies can be used to smooth down a thread which was cut just
a little oversized.

Bench Block? + ?
Hand Reamers?
Cutting/Tapping fluid?

Bandsaw?
Bench Grinder?


How much will your apartment floor hold? Even with small
machines, you're building up a collection of tools there. The bandsaw,
and a *good* bench grinder will weigh as much as the lathe, I suspect.


Well, the floor can support me and I weight well over three times what
the basic lathe weighs.(And well over twice it's length). :-)


But the bandsaw and the bench grinder are of similar weight to
your lathe -- or heavier.

The basic machine is only 90lbs(which I think is lighter than most in
it's class). So much for that "more massive bedway" statement in their
advertisment.(They do call it's .47 hp motor powerful).


:-)

Anyway, The bandsaw would be for cutting that 1/4" thick stainless I
mentioned.


So you would need a vertical bandsaw for that. The horizontal
ones are good for cutting overlength stock to a reasonable length for
what you intend to do with it.

And a vertical bandsaw which will run at speeds appropriate for
stainless will be big and heavy. Proably 600 pounds or so, at a rough
guess.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
  #19   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tool Terms

You could spend part of the time doing the traditional Asian"
machine tool mantra" of taking it apart, stoning or filing burrs off of
sliding parts, replacing the screws with ones of good metal and the
like.

This will make it a better machine. The sort of thing which the
factory *should* have done, but the Asian factories typically do not.


Yes. I'll be following the advice at the mini-lathe pages.

The "modified compound" was what the web site you pointed me to
was offering to allow the use of an AXA sized toolpost on this small a
lathe. With the standard compound, the toolpost will be too high, and
you won't be able to adjust the tools to centerline.


Ok. There are several sellers of this tool post/holder set on Ebay. And
it has to be "milled to fit". :-( Perhaps I should hold off on the tool
post. BTW. I found the AXA-16N in the MSC catolog(for $152.25).

So I'd have to decide wether or not to stick with end mill holders or
get another set of collets(3C) for the spindle. Hmmm. The end mill
holders would seem to be more reliable, but the 3C would allow me to
work hold.(I did win that 5C collet chuck on eBay that I may be able to
use for light work at least).


Yes!


Hmmm. Ebay: 7593078186

(Perhaps I can make a "collet block" tool holder for indexing). :-)


Yes -- that would be a good task to get started learning your
lathe and its capabilities.


It's limitations make me wonder if I should bother getting precision 5C
collets or just regular 5C collets.(Even after a tune up).

Ok. Let's see. No "DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder".All I need is the
Morse Taper #2 toll holder to allow me to use the center and regular
drills that I'd normally use on the tail stock, correct?


Yes -- with the problem of getting lateral centering each time
you use them which I mentioned before.


I'd like to mention that reamers, taps, ect. can also be put into that
holder.

I still don't know what a "chip breaker" is.


Oh -- I thought that you were asking whether you should get one.
It is a geometry in the insert or toolbit which causes the chips to curl
more than they can tolerate, so they break off frequently. Otherwise,
you can wind up with long spiral chips, which look pretty, but which can
get tangled up in the spinning workpiece and the chuck. And they often
have rather nasty sharp edges. Your stainless steel is probably one of
the flavors which will make the nasty ones.


I'll also have to come up with a good system for waste disposal.

An end mill grinding fixture is only for the square ended end
mills. For a ball end mill, you will need a serious tool and cutter
grinder, and quite a bit of time to learn to use it properly. I don't
have one, and have never had a chance to learn one. It will be a lot
cheaper to just buy new ball end mills as needed -- or if you are
dulling them a lot, find a service which will sharpen them for you.


Good. One less worry. BTW, the guide in the MSC catalog points to 3
flute end mills as the best choice for what I want to do with stainless
steel. I guess that I can plunge jussst about any 1/4" ball-end mill
into Delrin. But the depth would have to be consistent between holes.
Which reminds me, I also need to get a carriage stop.

* MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach).

?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7591760352
I was discussin it in another thread.("Using A Rotabroach Cutter In A
Lathe")


*Please* -- when you post eBay auctions, just post the auction
number (7591760352 in the above), rather than the whole URL. That is
all that *I* use, and nobody else seems to be following this thread any
more.

Did you notice that this one is in England? The currency
exchange can be a pain, and shipping can take forever.


Yes, I noticed. But there doesn't seem to be another supplier.

It looks interesting -- though it is probably made for a mag
base drill, not a lathe.


I assume you mean the cutter portion and not the shank.

* Steady Rest(Micro-Mark OEM)
* Follower Rest(Micro-Mark OEM)

Good.

* Face Plate

Does this not come standard with the lathe? The other two
*should* come standard with it, but probably don't.


You mean the rests?


The face plate should come standard with the lathe. The steady
and follower rests will have to come from the importer (Micro-Mark in
this case) as they don't cross over to other machines very well.


Yes. I'll be getting only the items that I have to get from Micro-Mark.

And the 60 degree center reamer set was for when I was thinking of
making a tool holder that could be centered by having a rear hole in
the smae shape as the tail stock center.


That is the function normally performed by the center drills.
(Also listed as drill and countersink in the catalogs.) That reamer may
be needed for precision center holes when working on a precision
grinder, but not for normal lathe work.


Ok. I'll just stick with getting over/under hand reamers where
needed.(And just line the center drill up with the tail stock center).

lathe Dog?

Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range
of sizes which you expect to turn between centers.


And this is the one commonly mentioned item that I've not yet read
about a purpose for.


O.K. Think of a workpiece held between centers (a ball bearing
live center in the tailstock, and a solid center in the headstock).
This holds the workpiece perfectly on center -- but what turns the
workpiece. The surface area of contact between the headstock center and
the workpiece is too small to put any significant torque into it. A
lathe dog has a hole which slips over the workpiece, with a setscrew to
clamp it to the workpiece. The dog typically has a bent tail which
engages a slot in the driver faceplate. Some have straight tails, and
are driven by a bolt run through the faceplate and held by a nut.


Ok. I assume that each will encompass a small range of diameters so I
won't have to buy one for every 1/16" of an inch. :-)

Rotary Table?
Dividing Head?
Index Plates?

Once you get a milling machine -- and the machine's size will
determine the size of what you want to get.


Actually, I've been studying these items because I've been working on
designing a small indexing jig for drilling/slotting plastic(Delrin),
and I'll probably pick up some index plates to use in it's design.


Note that the typical index plates are designed for different
gear ratios on different index heads. Mine is a 40:1 ratio, some are
20:1, and some are 90:1. You need to match the index plates to whatever
gearing is present in the index head which you buy or make.


My idea is actually a little different. Basically all I need is a plate
with 36 equally spaced holes and another with 10 holes. Actually it
probably would be best to just make what I need.(The only other end
mills I'll need will be for gear cutting).

BTW. Since it was cheap and I'm getting a lot of other stuff from the
seller, I bought a little 5C spin index to experiment with.(#)

And as far as milling machines go. I was going to get the Micro-Mark
cousin to my lathe, but I've seen too many of them show up on eBay
broken.(So I'll wait).

Trammel

This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very
large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you
beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider.


Actually, the items I was looking at int he HF catalog are quite small.


Hmm ... normally a trammel is designed to take the place of a
compass or dividers where a standard design is too large to be easy to
use. There are trammel point sets designed to clamp onto a standard
yardstick for a cheap way to do it. I have a nice Starrett one with a
spare bar to allow handling a radius of up to 18", IIRC.


I'll be using a ruler. :-)

Die?

Not just one. How many threads will you need to cut? One die
for each. (Assuming that you can't cut the thread directly on the
lathe.)


I've been looking at sets. All I need to make are standard holes from
1/8" to the larger bolt sizes. I still need to find a site that deals
with the nomenclature.


Beware of carbon steel dies. They are too brittle, and will
break or will chip teeth. You want HSS taps and or dies. The dies are
only needed for making external threads, which you should be able to do
on the lathe. The taps are more useful to you because internal
threading on a lathe of the smaller sizes is quite difficult.


I have still not figured out the corresponding tap diameters for those
numbers under 1/4". Also, I'm still keeping my eyes open for a good
bench block.(They seem to range from just over 2 inches to jsut over 4
inches).

The dies can be used to smooth down a thread which was cut just
a little oversized.


Ok. But I guess that I wouldn't *need* them if I cut the thread
correctly.

Bench Block? + ?
Hand Reamers?
Cutting/Tapping fluid?

Bandsaw?
Bench Grinder?

How much will your apartment floor hold? Even with small
machines, you're building up a collection of tools there. The bandsaw,
and a *good* bench grinder will weigh as much as the lathe, I suspect.


Well, the floor can support me and I weight well over three times what
the basic lathe weighs.(And well over twice it's length). :-)


But the bandsaw and the bench grinder are of similar weight to
your lathe -- or heavier.

The basic machine is only 90lbs(which I think is lighter than most in
it's class). So much for that "more massive bedway" statement in their
advertisment.(They do call it's .47 hp motor powerful).


:-)

Anyway, The bandsaw would be for cutting that 1/4" thick stainless I
mentioned.


So you would need a vertical bandsaw for that. The horizontal
ones are good for cutting overlength stock to a reasonable length for
what you intend to do with it.

And a vertical bandsaw which will run at speeds appropriate for
stainless will be big and heavy. Proably 600 pounds or so, at a rough
guess.


600?!?

What about 4" long cuts through 1/16" thick stainless steel?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

  #20   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
DoN. Nichols
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tool Terms

According to :

O.K. The first of the ones which I got also as e-mail.

*Please* don't send me e-mail copies of your postings.
Especially so, since the "From: " address is bogus, so a reply would be
wasting my time.

You could spend part of the time doing the traditional Asian"
machine tool mantra" of taking it apart, stoning or filing burrs off of
sliding parts, replacing the screws with ones of good metal and the
like.

This will make it a better machine. The sort of thing which the
factory *should* have done, but the Asian factories typically do not.


Yes. I'll be following the advice at the mini-lathe pages.


*Now*!

The "modified compound" was what the web site you pointed me to
was offering to allow the use of an AXA sized toolpost on this small a
lathe. With the standard compound, the toolpost will be too high, and
you won't be able to adjust the tools to centerline.


Ok. There are several sellers of this tool post/holder set on Ebay. And
it has to be "milled to fit". :-( Perhaps I should hold off on the tool
post. BTW. I found the AXA-16N in the MSC catolog(for $152.25).


No -- the plate which slides into the T-slot on the compound has
to be milled to fit. You don't *have* a T-slot on that lathe, unlike
most larger (and some smaller) lathes.

So, you unscrew the center rod from the T-head blank, and screw
it into the threaded hole in the top of the *modified* compound which
you purchase.

There *may* be a different center rod, which should be part of
what comes with the modified compound.

So I'd have to decide wether or not to stick with end mill holders or
get another set of collets(3C) for the spindle. Hmmm. The end mill
holders would seem to be more reliable, but the 3C would allow me to
work hold.(I did win that 5C collet chuck on eBay that I may be able to
use for light work at least).


Yes!


Hmmm. Ebay: 7593078186


Hmm ... you note that it is intended to fit a 5C lathe spindle
socket? And the only way *you* can provide a 5C socket is with this
thing which you already got from eBay. And the only way to hold *that*
is in a three-jaw or 4-jaw chuck on the lathe's spindle. There seems to
be little point to getting a chuck to hold in a chuck via an adaptor. :-)

Granted, people have held much smaller lathe chucks for tiny
workpieces in gigantic lathe chucks, but the size of *this* chuck is one
which is probably already available for your lathe spindle.

I have one of those, which I use sometimes when the lathe is set
up for collets, and I want to work on a small workpiece and don't want
to heave around the heavy larger chucks for my lathe. But mine is set
up for 5C collets.

Now -- you *could* use this in the spin indexer which you
mention somewhere below (from what I remember from reading the e-mail
earlier in the day). But that spin indexer is probably not as small as
you think it is. :-)

(Perhaps I can make a "collet block" tool holder for indexing). :-)


Yes -- that would be a good task to get started learning your
lathe and its capabilities.


It's limitations make me wonder if I should bother getting precision 5C
collets or just regular 5C collets.(Even after a tune up).


Regular for that. Probably regular for whatever you're going to
be doing. Save on buying the good ones until you have a machine which
can benefit from them.

Ok. Let's see. No "DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder".All I need is the
Morse Taper #2 toll holder to allow me to use the center and regular
drills that I'd normally use on the tail stock, correct?


Yes -- with the problem of getting lateral centering each time
you use them which I mentioned before.


I'd like to mention that reamers, taps, ect. can also be put into that
holder.


They can. Taps, under power, are asking for trouble. I tap
under power in my lathe, but:

1) It has a bed turret, so the tool holders are always on center.

2) I have some releasing tap holders to mount in that turret.

When the tap reaches a pre-set depth, it pulls part of the
holder to release the coupling to the rigidly mounted part in
the turret. This allows the tap and part of the holder to spin
freely until I can stop and reverse the spindle to back the tap
out of the just made threads.

You don't have the releasing tap holders, and I don't think that
your spindle can be run at reasonable speeds and torque for
this -- depending on the size of the tap, of course.

I still don't know what a "chip breaker" is.


Oh -- I thought that you were asking whether you should get one.
It is a geometry in the insert or toolbit which causes the chips to curl
more than they can tolerate, so they break off frequently. Otherwise,
you can wind up with long spiral chips, which look pretty, but which can
get tangled up in the spinning workpiece and the chuck. And they often
have rather nasty sharp edges. Your stainless steel is probably one of
the flavors which will make the nasty ones.


I'll also have to come up with a good system for waste disposal.


Yes. You may have the trash pickup people really mad at you,
and you *may* be violating some ordinance where you live if you toss
metal turnings into the general trash.

An end mill grinding fixture is only for the square ended end
mills. For a ball end mill, you will need a serious tool and cutter
grinder, and quite a bit of time to learn to use it properly. I don't
have one, and have never had a chance to learn one. It will be a lot
cheaper to just buy new ball end mills as needed -- or if you are
dulling them a lot, find a service which will sharpen them for you.


Good. One less worry. BTW, the guide in the MSC catalog points to 3
flute end mills as the best choice for what I want to do with stainless
steel.


O.K. Two-flute or three-flute plunge fairly nicely though
either may take more power than you have in stainless depending on the
diameter, so you may need to pre-drill the holes to depth at a smaller
diameter first.

I guess that I can plunge jussst about any 1/4" ball-end mill
into Delrin. But the depth would have to be consistent between holes.
Which reminds me, I also need to get a carriage stop.


Yes.

* MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach).

?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7591760352
I was discussin it in another thread.("Using A Rotabroach Cutter In A
Lathe")


*Please* -- when you post eBay auctions, just post the auction
number (7591760352 in the above), rather than the whole URL. That is
all that *I* use, and nobody else seems to be following this thread any
more.

Did you notice that this one is in England? The currency
exchange can be a pain, and shipping can take forever.


Yes, I noticed. But there doesn't seem to be another supplier.

It looks interesting -- though it is probably made for a mag
base drill, not a lathe.


I assume you mean the cutter portion and not the shank.


I mean the shank, which is a Morse taper to fit the spindle in
the mag base drill (or at least in *some* mag base drills), and the
other end is designed to hold the Rotabroach.

Yes -- it can be used to fit a Rotabroach to a lathe spindle,
though I'm not sure about the torque available from your lathe spindle
for running a Rotabroach in stainless steel.

* Steady Rest(Micro-Mark OEM)
* Follower Rest(Micro-Mark OEM)

Good.

* Face Plate

Does this not come standard with the lathe? The other two
*should* come standard with it, but probably don't.

You mean the rests?


The face plate should come standard with the lathe. The steady
and follower rests will have to come from the importer (Micro-Mark in
this case) as they don't cross over to other machines very well.


Yes. I'll be getting only the items that I have to get from Micro-Mark.


O.K.

And the 60 degree center reamer set was for when I was thinking of
making a tool holder that could be centered by having a rear hole in
the smae shape as the tail stock center.


That is the function normally performed by the center drills.
(Also listed as drill and countersink in the catalogs.) That reamer may
be needed for precision center holes when working on a precision
grinder, but not for normal lathe work.


Ok. I'll just stick with getting over/under hand reamers where
needed.(And just line the center drill up with the tail stock center).


Individual reamers as you need them -- unless you luck into a
nice price on eBay -- and can be sure that they are in good condition.
*Don't* bid on a batch of loose reamers. They have almost certainly been
beating against each other and have dulled the edges. If they are in
individual tubes, or in a roll-up tool pouch, the chances are better.

And *never* run a reamer backwards in the hole. It breaks down
the edges very quickly.

lathe Dog?

Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range
of sizes which you expect to turn between centers.

And this is the one commonly mentioned item that I've not yet read
about a purpose for.


O.K. Think of a workpiece held between centers (a ball bearing
live center in the tailstock, and a solid center in the headstock).
This holds the workpiece perfectly on center -- but what turns the
workpiece. The surface area of contact between the headstock center and
the workpiece is too small to put any significant torque into it. A
lathe dog has a hole which slips over the workpiece, with a setscrew to
clamp it to the workpiece. The dog typically has a bent tail which
engages a slot in the driver faceplate. Some have straight tails, and
are driven by a bolt run through the faceplate and held by a nut.


Ok. I assume that each will encompass a small range of diameters so I
won't have to buy one for every 1/16" of an inch. :-)


Correct. The range is limited in part by the length of the
screw which grips the workpiece -- though there are other thing which
also play a role in deciding.

Rotary Table?
Dividing Head?
Index Plates?

Once you get a milling machine -- and the machine's size will
determine the size of what you want to get.

Actually, I've been studying these items because I've been working on
designing a small indexing jig for drilling/slotting plastic(Delrin),
and I'll probably pick up some index plates to use in it's design.


Note that the typical index plates are designed for different
gear ratios on different index heads. Mine is a 40:1 ratio, some are
20:1, and some are 90:1. You need to match the index plates to whatever
gearing is present in the index head which you buy or make.


My idea is actually a little different. Basically all I need is a plate
with 36 equally spaced holes and another with 10 holes. Actually it
probably would be best to just make what I need.(The only other end
mills I'll need will be for gear cutting).


Hmm ... 36 and 10. How about 36 and 40? The index head for the
Emco-Maier C5 mill (not to be confused with the 5C collet size) has
those two, plus two other counts -- all build into the one fixture. You
simply shift the spring-loaded pin from one threaded hole to another to
select the number of positions available.

And even the really tiny index head for the Unimat SL-1000
(long out of production) had available four index hubs with those four
hole counts. But they typically came with only the 36 hole one, and you
had to buy the others as accessories.

You'll have to look on eBay for these, and beware that the
pricing on the Unimat stuff has started into "collector's item" range.

The only thing found on eBay at the moment with a search on
"emco index head" is:

7594760412

which is probably too big for your purpose, but which is a very nice
one, with a rather unusual 4-jaw universal chuck -- that is, the jaws
move inward at the same rate, just like a 3-jaw. That might be very
nice for mounting on your lathe for turning truly square plates --
except that I don't see the outside grip jaws for it.

BTW. Since it was cheap and I'm getting a lot of other stuff from the
seller, I bought a little 5C spin index to experiment with.(#)


O.K. You may find it larger than you think. :-)

And as far as milling machines go. I was going to get the Micro-Mark
cousin to my lathe, but I've seen too many of them show up on eBay
broken.(So I'll wait).


The plastic gears, I suspect. I've seen lots of postings about
those giving way in some of the import milling machines.

Trammel

This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very
large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you
beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider.

Actually, the items I was looking at int he HF catalog are quite small.


Hmm ... normally a trammel is designed to take the place of a
compass or dividers where a standard design is too large to be easy to
use. There are trammel point sets designed to clamp onto a standard
yardstick for a cheap way to do it. I have a nice Starrett one with a
spare bar to allow handling a radius of up to 18", IIRC.


I'll be using a ruler. :-)


For scribing a circle?

[ ... ]

Beware of carbon steel dies. They are too brittle, and will
break or will chip teeth. You want HSS taps and or dies. The dies are
only needed for making external threads, which you should be able to do
on the lathe. The taps are more useful to you because internal
threading on a lathe of the smaller sizes is quite difficult.


I have still not figured out the corresponding tap diameters for those
numbers under 1/4".


Buy a *good* drill index filled with number-sized drills. You
will find a table embossed into the metal of the top tray which lists
the body and tap drill sizes for common number-sized screws.

Or -- look up the proper table in your _Machinery's Handbook_.

Or prepare to compile (language is 'C') a program which I wrote
some time ago:


================================================== ====================
number-screw 3 56

For a #3-56.000 screw:
Clearance diameter: 0.099
Tap drill diameter: 0.081
================================================== ====================

And you'll still need the drill index to convert those decimal sizes to
the number size. :-)

Also, I'm still keeping my eyes open for a good
bench block.(They seem to range from just over 2 inches to jsut over 4
inches).


Mine is a 3" one, IIRC. Made by Starrett.

The dies can be used to smooth down a thread which was cut just
a little oversized.


Ok. But I guess that I wouldn't *need* them if I cut the thread
correctly.


Yes -- if your *machine* is rigid enough to cut the threads
correctly.

[ ... ]

Well, the floor can support me and I weight well over three times what
the basic lathe weighs.(And well over twice it's length). :-)


But the bandsaw and the bench grinder are of similar weight to
your lathe -- or heavier.

The basic machine is only 90lbs(which I think is lighter than most in
it's class). So much for that "more massive bedway" statement in their
advertisment.(They do call it's .47 hp motor powerful).


:-)

Anyway, The bandsaw would be for cutting that 1/4" thick stainless I
mentioned.


So you would need a vertical bandsaw for that. The horizontal
ones are good for cutting overlength stock to a reasonable length for
what you intend to do with it.

And a vertical bandsaw which will run at speeds appropriate for
stainless will be big and heavy. Proably 600 pounds or so, at a rough
guess.


600?!?


Yes -- in part just to find a bandsaw which will run slow enough
to cut stainless steel. Most inexpensive (and light) bandsaws have
speeds only appropriate for wood or metals like brass or aluminum. They
are *way* too fast for mild steel even -- let along stainless.

What about 4" long cuts through 1/16" thick stainless steel?


The same rules apply. It is the blade speed which is the major
problem. (Actually, you *might* be able to get away with the
horizontal/vertical bandsaw in vertical mode -- if you don't need to cut
too far from the edge of the workpiece, as the clearance for the other
side is rather limited.

Enjoy,
DoN.

P.S. I'm getting to dread weekends, since that is when I get hit by
several of your long postings.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---


  #21   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tool Terms

O.K. The first of the ones which I got also as e-mail.

*Please* don't send me e-mail copies of your postings.
Especially so, since the "From: " address is bogus, so a reply would be
wasting my time.


Ok. This was definitely the resultof problems with the library
computers, which I rarely use to post to the newsgroups unless my home
system goes down.

The "modified compound" was what the web site you pointed me to
was offering to allow the use of an AXA sized toolpost on this small a
lathe. With the standard compound, the toolpost will be too high, and
you won't be able to adjust the tools to centerline.


Ok. There are several sellers of this tool post/holder set on Ebay. And
it has to be "milled to fit". :-( Perhaps I should hold off on the tool
post. BTW. I found the AXA-16N in the MSC catolog(for $152.25).


No -- the plate which slides into the T-slot on the compound has
to be milled to fit. You don't *have* a T-slot on that lathe, unlike
most larger (and some smaller) lathes.

So, you unscrew the center rod from the T-head blank, and screw
it into the threaded hole in the top of the *modified* compound which
you purchase.

There *may* be a different center rod, which should be part of
what comes with the modified compound.


OK. I ordered one, so I'll re-read this when I have it in my hand.

Hmmm. Ebay: 7593078186


Hmm ... you note that it is intended to fit a 5C lathe spindle
socket? And the only way *you* can provide a 5C socket is with this
thing which you already got from eBay. And the only way to hold *that*
is in a three-jaw or 4-jaw chuck on the lathe's spindle. There seems to
be little point to getting a chuck to hold in a chuck via an adaptor. :-)

Granted, people have held much smaller lathe chucks for tiny
workpieces in gigantic lathe chucks, but the size of *this* chuck is one
which is probably already available for your lathe spindle.

I have one of those, which I use sometimes when the lathe is set
up for collets, and I want to work on a small workpiece and don't want
to heave around the heavy larger chucks for my lathe. But mine is set
up for 5C collets.

Now -- you *could* use this in the spin indexer which you
mention somewhere below (from what I remember from reading the e-mail
earlier in the day). But that spin indexer is probably not as small as
you think it is. :-)


That's exactly what I was thinking. But when I get around to getting a
mill... :-)

Neertheless, if I'm lucky and can fit the spin indexer(with collet and
work) over my lathe's bed in front of an endmill(located inside of an
end mill holder), I'd be able to bolt it to the geared elevation
platform I'm designing. :-)

(Perhaps I can make a "collet block" tool holder for indexing). :-)

Yes -- that would be a good task to get started learning your
lathe and its capabilities.


It's limitations make me wonder if I should bother getting precision 5C
collets or just regular 5C collets.(Even after a tune up).


Regular for that. Probably regular for whatever you're going to
be doing. Save on buying the good ones until you have a machine which
can benefit from them.


I definitely won't be using the collets for tool holding and plan to
bid on a set of endmill holders: 7552009436

BTW. Since I am getting a lot of stuff from a single seller I decided I
might as well pick up a set of collets also. I previously asked the
seller if he combined for shipping and he said yes. But at over $50
shipping I still think thats kind of high...

7597548589 33 PCS PRECISION 5C COLLETS SET & FREE 5C COLLET STAND 1
US $93.95
7590882403 0- 4" DEPTH MICROMETER 2.5" BASE MICROMETERS .001" CASE 1
US $24.95
7593646099 0 - 4" 4 PCS MICROMETER SET CARBIDE TIP MICROMETERS NEW 1
US $19.99
7595311979 NEW PRECISION MORSE TAPER # 2 MT LIVE CENTER TAPERS ! 1
US $11.95
7593644408 6 PC 5/16- 6 CYLINDER T-BORE GAGES GAGE SET TELESCOPING 1
US $9.75
7589437709 5C COLLET COLLETS BLOCK SET HEX, SQUARE BLOCKS NEW SETS 1
US $28.90
7582356634 5/8" DRILL CHUCK W/ STRAIGHT / MT / R8 SHANK ARBOR NEW! 1
US $18.95
7572307933 110 LBS PULL 4 WAY MAGNETIC BASE TEST & DIAL INDICATOR 1
US $10.95
7570240691 5C PRECISION SPIN INDEX FIXTURE COLLET FOR MILLING NEW 1
US $26.90
7542413378 3 MORSE TAPER TO 2 MORSE TAPER ADAPTOR NEW 1
US $6.00
7503033206 PRECISION MACHINISTS ANGLE GAGE SET 18 PCS GAGES NEW 1
US $15.25

Subtotal:
US $267.54
Shipping and handling via UPS
Ground: US $50.90
Total:
US $318.44

(Along with something else you recommended: 7594930259).

Ok. Let's see. No "DoveTail Drill Chuck Tool Holder".All I need is the
Morse Taper #2 toll holder to allow me to use the center and regular
drills that I'd normally use on the tail stock, correct?

Yes -- with the problem of getting lateral centering each time
you use them which I mentioned before.


I'd like to mention that reamers, taps, ect. can also be put into that
holder.


They can. Taps, under power, are asking for trouble. I tap
under power in my lathe, but:

1) It has a bed turret, so the tool holders are always on center.

2) I have some releasing tap holders to mount in that turret.

When the tap reaches a pre-set depth, it pulls part of the
holder to release the coupling to the rigidly mounted part in
the turret. This allows the tap and part of the holder to spin
freely until I can stop and reverse the spindle to back the tap
out of the just made threads.

You don't have the releasing tap holders, and I don't think that
your spindle can be run at reasonable speeds and torque for
this -- depending on the size of the tap, of course.


Thanks. You've convinced me to stick with manual tapping. At least for
now , and with the equipment I have. Or should I say, don't have. :-).
BTW. I don't see going much larger than 5/8" in the near future.

I don't have a mill or drill yet but this looks interestiung:
7537997365

I'll also have to come up with a good system for waste disposal.


Yes. You may have the trash pickup people really mad at you,
and you *may* be violating some ordinance where you live if you toss
metal turnings into the general trash.


Yes. Recycling is now the law here.

An end mill grinding fixture is only for the square ended end
mills. For a ball end mill, you will need a serious tool and cutter
grinder, and quite a bit of time to learn to use it properly. I don't
have one, and have never had a chance to learn one. It will be a lot
cheaper to just buy new ball end mills as needed -- or if you are
dulling them a lot, find a service which will sharpen them for you.


Good. One less worry. BTW, the guide in the MSC catalog points to 3
flute end mills as the best choice for what I want to do with stainless
steel.


O.K. Two-flute or three-flute plunge fairly nicely though
either may take more power than you have in stainless depending on the
diameter, so you may need to pre-drill the holes to depth at a smaller
diameter first.


Since stainless is still the *back-up* plan, two-flute should be
sufficient for Delrin.

I guess that I can plunge jussst about any 1/4" ball-end mill
into Delrin. But the depth would have to be consistent between holes.
Which reminds me, I also need to get a carriage stop.


Yes.

* MT2 Rotabroach Arbor(@#$%! And I just brought a Rotabroach).

?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7591760352
I was discussin it in another thread.("Using A Rotabroach Cutter In A
Lathe")

*Please* -- when you post eBay auctions, just post the auction
number (7591760352 in the above), rather than the whole URL. That is
all that *I* use, and nobody else seems to be following this thread any
more.

Did you notice that this one is in England? The currency
exchange can be a pain, and shipping can take forever.


Yes, I noticed. But there doesn't seem to be another supplier.

It looks interesting -- though it is probably made for a mag
base drill, not a lathe.


I assume you mean the cutter portion and not the shank.


I mean the shank, which is a Morse taper to fit the spindle in
the mag base drill (or at least in *some* mag base drills), and the
other end is designed to hold the Rotabroach.

Yes -- it can be used to fit a Rotabroach to a lathe spindle,
though I'm not sure about the torque available from your lathe spindle
for running a Rotabroach in stainless steel.


At worst, I should be able to use it on softer materials(ie: Aluminum).
I wonder if I should just get a Morse Taper #2 socket and make my own
holder. :-)

lathe Dog?

Not *one* lathe dog, but a set of lathe dogs to handle the range
of sizes which you expect to turn between centers.

And this is the one commonly mentioned item that I've not yet read
about a purpose for.

O.K. Think of a workpiece held between centers (a ball bearing
live center in the tailstock, and a solid center in the headstock).
This holds the workpiece perfectly on center -- but what turns the
workpiece. The surface area of contact between the headstock center and
the workpiece is too small to put any significant torque into it. A
lathe dog has a hole which slips over the workpiece, with a setscrew to
clamp it to the workpiece. The dog typically has a bent tail which
engages a slot in the driver faceplate. Some have straight tails, and
are driven by a bolt run through the faceplate and held by a nut.


Ok. I assume that each will encompass a small range of diameters so I
won't have to buy one for every 1/16" of an inch. :-)


Correct. The range is limited in part by the length of the
screw which grips the workpiece -- though there are other thing which
also play a role in deciding.


I have lathe dogs somewhat covered: 7594607844. I didn't see the one
lathe dog on the Micro-mark page as being too useful. But I may now
have to custom make a face plate so I can use them.

My idea is actually a little different. Basically all I need is a plate
with 36 equally spaced holes and another with 10 holes. Actually it
probably would be best to just make what I need.(The only other end
mills I'll need will be for gear cutting).


Hmm ... 36 and 10. How about 36 and 40? The index head for the
Emco-Maier C5 mill (not to be confused with the 5C collet size) has
those two, plus two other counts -- all build into the one fixture. You
simply shift the spring-loaded pin from one threaded hole to another to
select the number of positions available.

And even the really tiny index head for the Unimat SL-1000
(long out of production) had available four index hubs with those four
hole counts. But they typically came with only the 36 hole one, and you
had to buy the others as accessories.


Though 36 and 40 would quadruple the position opptions, there is not
enough room for that many holes inthe space I set aside.

One of these days I'll get more into my idea for a "Chuck-Plate"(for
lack of a better term). It's basically a face-plate with 12 location
options for inserting reversible jaws so that either a 3 or a 4 jaw
option is possible. It will also allow the option of scroll or
independent.(The idea is complete. The hard part will be finalizing the
dimensions of all of the individual parts).

You'll have to look on eBay for these, and beware that the
pricing on the Unimat stuff has started into "collector's item" range.

The only thing found on eBay at the moment with a search on
"emco index head" is:

7594760412


There is a simular one in the Grizzly catalog.

which is probably too big for your purpose, but which is a very nice
one, with a rather unusual 4-jaw universal chuck -- that is, the jaws
move inward at the same rate, just like a 3-jaw. That might be very
nice for mounting on your lathe for turning truly square plates --
except that I don't see the outside grip jaws for it.


I'll still keep my eyes open, but I guess my priority should be getting
a compatible 5" 4-jaw chuck for those sqaure pieces.

BTW. Since it was cheap and I'm getting a lot of other stuff from the
seller, I bought a little 5C spin index to experiment with.(#)


O.K. You may find it larger than you think. :-)


I'll let you know the dimensions when I get it. :-)

And as far as milling machines go. I was going to get the Micro-Mark
cousin to my lathe, but I've seen too many of them show up on eBay
broken.(So I'll wait).


The plastic gears, I suspect. I've seen lots of postings about
those giving way in some of the import milling machines.


I guess that's why their ad for the lathe says in bright red letters,
"Now with metal gears on the spindle shaft!". But of course that'll
just shift the weak link iun the chain to another location. :-)

Trammel

This suggests delusions of grandeur. Think of that as a very
large compass -- and none of your machines are large enough to take you
beyond the range of a normal machinist's divider.

Actually, the items I was looking at int he HF catalog are quite small.

Hmm ... normally a trammel is designed to take the place of a
compass or dividers where a standard design is too large to be easy to
use. There are trammel point sets designed to clamp onto a standard
yardstick for a cheap way to do it. I have a nice Starrett one with a
spare bar to allow handling a radius of up to 18", IIRC.


I'll be using a ruler. :-)


For scribing a circle?


Yup. I have a couple of metal rulers.

Beware of carbon steel dies. They are too brittle, and will
break or will chip teeth. You want HSS taps and or dies. The dies are
only needed for making external threads, which you should be able to do
on the lathe. The taps are more useful to you because internal
threading on a lathe of the smaller sizes is quite difficult.


I have still not figured out the corresponding tap diameters for those
numbers under 1/4".


Buy a *good* drill index filled with number-sized drills. You
will find a table embossed into the metal of the top tray which lists
the body and tap drill sizes for common number-sized screws.

Or -- look up the proper table in your _Machinery's Handbook_.

Or prepare to compile (language is 'C') a program which I wrote
some time ago:


================================================== ====================
number-screw 3 56

For a #3-56.000 screw:
Clearance diameter: 0.099
Tap drill diameter: 0.081
================================================== ====================

And you'll still need the drill index to convert those decimal sizes to
the number size. :-)


I'm in the process of searching for a good book on this subject to add
to the other's high on my list.("Machinery's Handbook", "Machine Shop
Practice"(Moltrecht), and some other book with the word essentials in
it). :-)

Also, I'm still keeping my eyes open for a good
bench block.(They seem to range from just over 2 inches to jsut over 4
inches).


Mine is a 3" one, IIRC. Made by Starrett.

The dies can be used to smooth down a thread which was cut just
a little oversized.


Ok. But I guess that I wouldn't *need* them if I cut the thread
correctly.


Yes -- if your *machine* is rigid enough to cut the threads
correctly.


I'll keep my fingers crossed. :-)

Anyway, The bandsaw would be for cutting that 1/4" thick stainless I
mentioned.

So you would need a vertical bandsaw for that. The horizontal
ones are good for cutting overlength stock to a reasonable length for
what you intend to do with it.

And a vertical bandsaw which will run at speeds appropriate for
stainless will be big and heavy. Proably 600 pounds or so, at a rough
guess.


600?!?


Yes -- in part just to find a bandsaw which will run slow enough
to cut stainless steel. Most inexpensive (and light) bandsaws have
speeds only appropriate for wood or metals like brass or aluminum. They
are *way* too fast for mild steel even -- let along stainless.

What about 4" long cuts through 1/16" thick stainless steel?


The same rules apply. It is the blade speed which is the major
problem. (Actually, you *might* be able to get away with the
horizontal/vertical bandsaw in vertical mode -- if you don't need to cut
too far from the edge of the workpiece, as the clearance for the other
side is rather limited.


Well the idea was to cut 4" squares out of the 4" wide, 4'(or is it 6')
long pieces. But if it is easier(though not cheaper) to just get it
completsly precut, then I'll have no choice.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

  #22   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
DoN. Nichols
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tool Terms

According to :
O.K. The first of the ones which I got also as e-mail.

*Please* don't send me e-mail copies of your postings.
Especially so, since the "From: " address is bogus, so a reply would be
wasting my time.


Ok. This was definitely the resultof problems with the library
computers, which I rarely use to post to the newsgroups unless my home
system goes down.


O.K. As it urned out, I saw both in the newsgroup, and only one
seemed to require an answer, so you got that.

[ ... ]

No -- the plate which slides into the T-slot on the compound has
to be milled to fit. You don't *have* a T-slot on that lathe, unlike
most larger (and some smaller) lathes.

So, you unscrew the center rod from the T-head blank, and screw
it into the threaded hole in the top of the *modified* compound which
you purchase.

There *may* be a different center rod, which should be part of
what comes with the modified compound.


OK. I ordered one, so I'll re-read this when I have it in my hand.


O.K.

Hmmm. Ebay: 7593078186


[ ... ]

Now -- you *could* use this in the spin indexer which you
mention somewhere below (from what I remember from reading the e-mail
earlier in the day). But that spin indexer is probably not as small as
you think it is. :-)


That's exactly what I was thinking. But when I get around to getting a
mill... :-)


O.K.

Neertheless, if I'm lucky and can fit the spin indexer(with collet and
work) over my lathe's bed in front of an endmill(located inside of an
end mill holder), I'd be able to bolt it to the geared elevation
platform I'm designing. :-)


O.K. Note that a spin indexer does not have the worm gear drive
which either a rotary table or an index/dividing head have, so trying to
rotate the workpiece while you are machining may get rather exciting --
it may get away from you and rap your knuckles with the hand crank.

[ ... ]

I definitely won't be using the collets for tool holding and plan to
bid on a set of endmill holders: 7552009436


O.K. I see a problem with those. They have tanged ends, rather
than ends drilled and tapped for a drawbar. You will have a risk of
things coming loose still.

BTW. Since I am getting a lot of stuff from a single seller I decided I
might as well pick up a set of collets also. I previously asked the
seller if he combined for shipping and he said yes. But at over $50
shipping I still think thats kind of high...


[ ... ]

7582356634 5/8" DRILL CHUCK W/ STRAIGHT / MT / R8 SHANK ARBOR NEW! 1
US $18.95


What are you going to use this (above) on? It seems too big
for a tailstock chuck for your lathe, and way too big for a chuck for a
drill press which you could carry up the stairs. It *might* work in the
headstock, I guess.

[ ... ]

They can. Taps, under power, are asking for trouble. I tap
under power in my lathe, but:

1) It has a bed turret, so the tool holders are always on center.

2) I have some releasing tap holders to mount in that turret.

When the tap reaches a pre-set depth, it pulls part of the
holder to release the coupling to the rigidly mounted part in
the turret. This allows the tap and part of the holder to spin
freely until I can stop and reverse the spindle to back the tap
out of the just made threads.

You don't have the releasing tap holders, and I don't think that
your spindle can be run at reasonable speeds and torque for
this -- depending on the size of the tap, of course.


Thanks. You've convinced me to stick with manual tapping. At least for
now , and with the equipment I have. Or should I say, don't have. :-).
BTW. I don't see going much larger than 5/8" in the near future.

I don't have a mill or drill yet but this looks interestiung:
7537997365


Be aware that it *must* be used in a rotating spindle. You
can't use it in the non-rotating spindle of your lathe tailstock.

[ ... ]

O.K. Two-flute or three-flute plunge fairly nicely though
either may take more power than you have in stainless depending on the
diameter, so you may need to pre-drill the holes to depth at a smaller
diameter first.


Since stainless is still the *back-up* plan, two-flute should be
sufficient for Delrin.


O.K.

[ ... lathe dogs ... ]

Ok. I assume that each will encompass a small range of diameters so I
won't have to buy one for every 1/16" of an inch. :-)


Correct. The range is limited in part by the length of the
screw which grips the workpiece -- though there are other thing which
also play a role in deciding.


I have lathe dogs somewhat covered: 7594607844. I didn't see the one
lathe dog on the Micro-mark page as being too useful. But I may now
have to custom make a face plate so I can use them.


O.K. These look reasonable.

My idea is actually a little different. Basically all I need is a plate
with 36 equally spaced holes and another with 10 holes. Actually it
probably would be best to just make what I need.(The only other end
mills I'll need will be for gear cutting).


Hmm ... 36 and 10. How about 36 and 40? The index head for the
Emco-Maier C5 mill (not to be confused with the 5C collet size) has
those two, plus two other counts -- all build into the one fixture. You
simply shift the spring-loaded pin from one threaded hole to another to
select the number of positions available.

And even the really tiny index head for the Unimat SL-1000
(long out of production) had available four index hubs with those four
hole counts. But they typically came with only the 36 hole one, and you
had to buy the others as accessories.


Though 36 and 40 would quadruple the position opptions, there is not
enough room for that many holes inthe space I set aside.


I was talking about things which are available pre-made which
are close to what you are thinking of making -- but with provisions for
the things which you have not yet thought of.

[ ... ]

I'll still keep my eyes open, but I guess my priority should be getting
a compatible 5" 4-jaw chuck for those sqaure pieces.


Yes -- which *could* include a separate back plate and a
plain-back chuck, so you can adapt it to your machine.

BTW. Since it was cheap and I'm getting a lot of other stuff from the
seller, I bought a little 5C spin index to experiment with.(#)


O.K. You may find it larger than you think. :-)


I'll let you know the dimensions when I get it. :-)


I think that I know the size of the typical spin indexer.

BTW -- you can divide parts to any integer number of degrees.
There are 36 holes in the plate, and ten holes for the locking
pin so you can between them get any of 360 positions. Look that
over and learn how to use it before you buy an index head. (Of
course it won't do for things which don't divide evenly into 360
degrees.)

And as far as milling machines go. I was going to get the Micro-Mark
cousin to my lathe, but I've seen too many of them show up on eBay
broken.(So I'll wait).


The plastic gears, I suspect. I've seen lots of postings about
those giving way in some of the import milling machines.


I guess that's why their ad for the lathe says in bright red letters,
"Now with metal gears on the spindle shaft!". But of course that'll
just shift the weak link iun the chain to another location. :-)


Of course. :-)

[ ... ]

I have still not figured out the corresponding tap diameters for those
numbers under 1/4".


Buy a *good* drill index filled with number-sized drills. You
will find a table embossed into the metal of the top tray which lists
the body and tap drill sizes for common number-sized screws.

Or -- look up the proper table in your _Machinery's Handbook_.

Or prepare to compile (language is 'C') a program which I wrote
some time ago:


================================================== ====================
number-screw 3 56

For a #3-56.000 screw:
Clearance diameter: 0.099
Tap drill diameter: 0.081
================================================== ====================

And you'll still need the drill index to convert those decimal sizes to
the number size. :-)


I'm in the process of searching for a good book on this subject to add
to the other's high on my list.("Machinery's Handbook", "Machine Shop
Practice"(Moltrecht), and some other book with the word essentials in
it). :-)


O.K. The Moltrecht two-volume set is excellent, but
_Machinery's Handbook_ is the place to look up sizes and things like
that.

[ ... weight of good vertical metal-cutting bandsaw ... ]

600?!?


Yes -- in part just to find a bandsaw which will run slow enough
to cut stainless steel. Most inexpensive (and light) bandsaws have
speeds only appropriate for wood or metals like brass or aluminum. They
are *way* too fast for mild steel even -- let along stainless.

What about 4" long cuts through 1/16" thick stainless steel?


The same rules apply. It is the blade speed which is the major
problem. (Actually, you *might* be able to get away with the
horizontal/vertical bandsaw in vertical mode -- if you don't need to cut
too far from the edge of the workpiece, as the clearance for the other
side is rather limited.


Well the idea was to cut 4" squares out of the 4" wide, 4'(or is it 6')
long pieces. But if it is easier(though not cheaper) to just get it
completsly precut, then I'll have no choice.


It will be cheaper up until a certain number of pieces, and you
really have no place to put something capable of handling the stainless
steel.

Or -- you can perhaps find a sheet metal shop locally with a
shear capable of cutting the 1/16" SS. This is the same as 16 gauge,
and most reasonable shears are good up to 16 gauge in *mild* steel, but
only to something like 20 gauge (or even thinner) in Stainless Steels.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
  #23   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
DoN. Nichols
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tool Terms

According to :

[ ... ]

O.K. Note that a spin indexer does not have the worm gear drive
which either a rotary table or an index/dividing head have, so trying to
rotate the workpiece while you are machining may get rather exciting --
it may get away from you and rap your knuckles with the hand crank.


Actually it never crossed my mind to rotate the work piece while
machining.(I'd sooner put to the workpiece in the spidle).


If you need to make a groove or a slot which forms only part of
a circle, you'll need to rotate the workpiece in something like an index
head or a rotary table.

I was
thinking that if there isn't a say to lock it,


There is a way -- but it might not be very strong, other than
the pin for setting specific angles.

Note that turning the workpiece in the spin indexer while
cutting can make sense, if you are working with a surface grinder.
Working with a milling cutter, however, risks losing control of the
workpiece.

perhaps I can develop
one.(The entire indexer would have to move up and down on a platform).

I definitely won't be using the collets for tool holding and plan to
bid on a set of endmill holders: 7552009436


O.K. I see a problem with those. They have tanged ends, rather
than ends drilled and tapped for a drawbar. You will have a risk of
things coming loose still.


The tangs are the reason I hadn't bid yet. I wasn't sure what that was
about. @#$%! And I thought I might have been onto a deal.


It would have been a deal -- if you only intended plunge milling
and no side motion. However, with the side motion, you really need a
way to use a drawbar.

[ ... ]

7582356634 5/8" DRILL CHUCK W/ STRAIGHT / MT / R8 SHANK ARBOR NEW! 1
US $18.95


What are you going to use this (above) on? It seems too big
for a tailstock chuck for your lathe, and way too big for a chuck for a
drill press which you could carry up the stairs. It *might* work in the
headstock, I guess.


Why too big? The auction ad states, "Buyers can choose 1" Straight
Shank or MT2 J3 or MT3 J3 or MT4 J3 or R8 J3 shank arbor. ".


Just because you can *fit* it in the tailstock does not mean
that the tailstock is strong enough to take the cutting forces of a 5/8"
drill bit. You *might* get away with it, if the tailstock has the
groove to hold the tang to prevent spinning the tool in the tailstock
ram. But it can lead to unwanted excitement.

And -- a 5/8" chuck takes up more of the limited distance
between the tailstock and the spindle nose. For a 2MT tailstock ram, I
would typically use a 3/8" chuck, or *maybe* a 1/2" one -- carefully.
My 5/8" chuck is on a MT-3 arbor, not MT-2.

Most of my drill will have to be from the head stock because I'll need
to be able to keep re-positioning the work to make a variety of holes
and slots.


O.K. Though a drill press is probably better for this most of
the time.

I don't have a mill or drill yet but this looks interestiung:
7537997365


Be aware that it *must* be used in a rotating spindle. You
can't use it in the non-rotating spindle of your lathe tailstock.


I definitely wasn't considering it's use with my lathe. :-)


O.K. Just being sure, because you have come up with other ideas
which I fell very uncomfortable with.

[ ... ]

And even the really tiny index head for the Unimat SL-1000
(long out of production) had available four index hubs with those four
hole counts. But they typically came with only the 36 hole one, and you
had to buy the others as accessories.

Though 36 and 40 would quadruple the position opptions, there is not
enough room for that many holes inthe space I set aside.


I was talking about things which are available pre-made which
are close to what you are thinking of making -- but with provisions for
the things which you have not yet thought of.


Ok. The only problem is that I don't think there are ready made plates
that would have the exact dimensions and hole positions I'd need.


The Emco-Maier one has a single plate built in, with four
circles of holes. 40 and 36 are two of them. I think that 30 may be
another. I forget what the forth is.

Not as flexible as a dividing head with interchangeable plates
(each with 6-8 rows of holes) and a worm gear between the plate giving a
ratio of 40:1, 20:1 or 90:1.

The one for the Unimat SL-1000 actually has interchangeable
hubs, with a triangular gear tooth cut on the outside, into which a
spring loaded plunger fits, and then the assembly is locked with a
separate clamp bolt.

I'll still keep my eyes open, but I guess my priority should be getting
a compatible 5" 4-jaw chuck for those sqaure pieces.


Yes -- which *could* include a separate back plate and a
plain-back chuck, so you can adapt it to your machine.


Funny why I din't think of something before. I can actually forego the
5" chuck for now. Remember when I mentioned that I wanted to put 1/4"
square holes in each corner of the 4-1/2" square plate? I can just make
a face plate to bolt it to. :-) (Perhaps putting some wood in between).


That makes sense. I would suggest that you drill the plate and
tap it for studs, and use nuts which you spin onto the studs after
placing the plate on them. I would also suggest that you use washers
between the workpiece and the nuts so you don't mar the surface of the
workpiece with the nut's friction.

[ ... ]

BTW -- you can divide parts to any integer number of degrees.
There are 36 holes in the plate, and ten holes for the locking
pin so you can between them get any of 360 positions. Look that
over and learn how to use it before you buy an index head. (Of
course it won't do for things which don't divide evenly into 360
degrees.)


I had actually had that idea for 36 and 10 before I noticed those
numbers on existing indexers. So it was wasy to deduce the basic of how
they work, because I had basically re-invented the wheel. :-)


Not quite the way the spin indexer works. The 36 hole plate is
a part of the spindle. The 10 holes are part of the base casting. They
are located in an arc, with the ten holes taking up the span of 11 holes
in the plate, so moving the pin from one hole to the next, and rotating
the spindle and plate the minimum to allow it to engage the nearest hole
will move the plate 1/10th of the distance between adjacent holes. This
is quite similar to a vernier.

[ ... ]

What about 4" long cuts through 1/16" thick stainless steel?

The same rules apply. It is the blade speed which is the major
problem. (Actually, you *might* be able to get away with the
horizontal/vertical bandsaw in vertical mode -- if you don't need to cut
too far from the edge of the workpiece, as the clearance for the other
side is rather limited.

Well the idea was to cut 4" squares out of the 4" wide, 4'(or is it 6')
long pieces. But if it is easier(though not cheaper) to just get it
completsly precut, then I'll have no choice.


It will be cheaper up until a certain number of pieces, and you
really have no place to put something capable of handling the stainless
steel.

Or -- you can perhaps find a sheet metal shop locally with a
shear capable of cutting the 1/16" SS. This is the same as 16 gauge,
and most reasonable shears are good up to 16 gauge in *mild* steel, but
only to something like 20 gauge (or even thinner) in Stainless Steels.


Take a look at these: 7598678434 & 7598678968


I just did. My first thought is that these things are going to
be *noisy*, and not the thing to use in an apartment with neighbors.

The first of them has to be guided by hand, so you would have to
make some form of fixture to hold it and guide it properly.

The second of them is obviously designed for cutting channel,
small I beams, square or round tubing and similar things. While the
vise will open as wide as 4-3/4", it is expecting something deeper than
1/16" plate, and will quite likely distort the plate as you try to clamp
it by the edges. And, that design would have the saw break through in
the middle first, and then work out towards the edges, at which point it
might grab and pull the stainless out of the vise -- and perhaps hurt
someone with the flailing metal.

I'm told by the seller that the Steel Max saws only come with a mild
steel blade. So I'd need to purchase a separate stainless steel blade
to cut through 1/4" S.S.(Whatever that means).


I would first worry about the noise issue. While the lathe and
the mill will be reasonably quiet, *this* thing will not. For the larger
one, 1450 RPM, combined with the 80 tooth blade for SS, will make for
about a 1.93 KHZ scream. Something which I might live with in my
stand-alone dwelling, with the shop having replaced the two-car garage,
but I don't think that using it in an apartment building would work out.

Good luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
  #24   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tool Terms

DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to :

[ ... ]

O.K. Note that a spin indexer does not have the worm gear drive
which either a rotary table or an index/dividing head have, so trying to
rotate the workpiece while you are machining may get rather exciting --
it may get away from you and rap your knuckles with the hand crank.


Actually it never crossed my mind to rotate the work piece while
machining.(I'd sooner put to the workpiece in the spidle).


If you need to make a groove or a slot which forms only part of
a circle, you'll need to rotate the workpiece in something like an index
head or a rotary table.


Or plunge and file until I get a more reasonable wet-up.(I'll be
checking Home Depot to see if I can find some lathe files).

I was
thinking that if there isn't a say to lock it,


There is a way -- but it might not be very strong, other than
the pin for setting specific angles.


I'll study it to see what ideas I can come up with.

Note that turning the workpiece in the spin indexer while
cutting can make sense, if you are working with a surface grinder.
Working with a milling cutter, however, risks losing control of the
workpiece.


Too bad a surface grinder is way out of the realm of possibilty right
now. :-(

perhaps I can develop
one.(The entire indexer would have to move up and down on a platform).

I definitely won't be using the collets for tool holding and plan to
bid on a set of endmill holders: 7552009436

O.K. I see a problem with those. They have tanged ends, rather
than ends drilled and tapped for a drawbar. You will have a risk of
things coming loose still.


The tangs are the reason I hadn't bid yet. I wasn't sure what that was
about. @#$%! And I thought I might have been onto a deal.


It would have been a deal -- if you only intended plunge milling
and no side motion. However, with the side motion, you really need a
way to use a drawbar.


Ok.: 7599888531

I assume that making a drawbar is not problem, but do I really need to
buy a collet closer?:
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=2374

7582356634 5/8" DRILL CHUCK W/ STRAIGHT / MT / R8 SHANK ARBOR NEW! 1
US $18.95

What are you going to use this (above) on? It seems too big
for a tailstock chuck for your lathe, and way too big for a chuck for a
drill press which you could carry up the stairs. It *might* work in the
headstock, I guess.


Why too big? The auction ad states, "Buyers can choose 1" Straight
Shank or MT2 J3 or MT3 J3 or MT4 J3 or R8 J3 shank arbor. ".


Just because you can *fit* it in the tailstock does not mean
that the tailstock is strong enough to take the cutting forces of a 5/8"
drill bit. You *might* get away with it, if the tailstock has the
groove to hold the tang to prevent spinning the tool in the tailstock
ram. But it can lead to unwanted excitement.

And -- a 5/8" chuck takes up more of the limited distance
between the tailstock and the spindle nose. For a 2MT tailstock ram, I
would typically use a 3/8" chuck, or *maybe* a 1/2" one -- carefully.
My 5/8" chuck is on a MT-3 arbor, not MT-2.


I'd like to point out that I'm getting the MT2 version for the
tailstock.: 7530390913

And little Machine Shop actually sells for for my specific lathe:
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=1148

Nevertheless, Plastics like Delrin will be a big part of my projects,
so cutting forces wouldn't be as big a deal with those large chucks.

Speaking of the tailstock. I was wondering what you thought about die
holders. The one sold specifically for my lathe holds 13/16 inch O.D.
dies for threading shafts. The 1/2 inch O.D. shank fits the larger
tailstock chucks and has 3/8 inch hole for threaded stock to pass
through. It's blackened steel with a set screw and wrench to hold the
die.

They are sell an expensive 14 piece tap & die set:
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares...oduct&ID=14153

But since I am already getting some wrenches(7524114193), I'll get only
what I need for now *the same seller*. I believe these are the standard
sizes: 7532135748

BTW. I've noticed that the Little Machine Shop site seems to assume
that if people use collets with their mini-lathes, they would be 3C
collets.(So I assume that my specific needs that require 5C are not
normal).

Most of my drill will have to be from the head stock because I'll need
to be able to keep re-positioning the work to make a variety of holes
and slots.


O.K. Though a drill press is probably better for this most of
the time.


Ok. I'm still in the market for a good table-top drill press.

-snip-

I'm looking into the plausiblity of making worm gears on this lathe.

I am however working on an idea for special gear-making jig. It's king
of an upside-down "pendulum-type" holder located on the slide, with a
crank that will ratchet the work.

-snip-

I had actually had that idea for 36 and 10 before I noticed those
numbers on existing indexers. So it was wasy to deduce the basic of how
they work, because I had basically re-invented the wheel. :-)


Not quite the way the spin indexer works. The 36 hole plate is
a part of the spindle. The 10 holes are part of the base casting. They
are located in an arc, with the ten holes taking up the span of 11 holes
in the plate, so moving the pin from one hole to the next, and rotating
the spindle and plate the minimum to allow it to engage the nearest hole
will move the plate 1/10th of the distance between adjacent holes. This
is quite similar to a vernier.


Well from what you're saying, the basics are the same. With what I'm
designing, one component will allow the work to loack at 36 positions,
10 degrees apart. And a second component will allow 1 degree incriments
and a 10 degreee total.

-snip-

Take a look at these: 7598678434 & 7598678968


I just did. My first thought is that these things are going to
be *noisy*, and not the thing to use in an apartment with neighbors.

The first of them has to be guided by hand, so you would have to
make some form of fixture to hold it and guide it properly.

The second of them is obviously designed for cutting channel,
small I beams, square or round tubing and similar things. While the
vise will open as wide as 4-3/4", it is expecting something deeper than
1/16" plate, and will quite likely distort the plate as you try to clamp
it by the edges. And, that design would have the saw break through in
the middle first, and then work out towards the edges, at which point it
might grab and pull the stainless out of the vise -- and perhaps hurt
someone with the flailing metal.

I'm told by the seller that the Steel Max saws only come with a mild
steel blade. So I'd need to purchase a separate stainless steel blade
to cut through 1/4" S.S.(Whatever that means).


I would first worry about the noise issue. While the lathe and
the mill will be reasonably quiet, *this* thing will not. For the larger
one, 1450 RPM, combined with the 80 tooth blade for SS, will make for
about a 1.93 KHZ scream. Something which I might live with in my
stand-alone dwelling, with the shop having replaced the two-car garage,
but I don't think that using it in an apartment building would work out.


Yess. The first thing I thought about was the noise also. I don't even
think I coul duse it down in the storage room. But if I can make a
cutting jig of some sort I could find someplace else to knock off
enough plates because it is completely portable. And I'm assuming that
there woul dbe more material wastse than from a capable bandsaw.

The blades for this circular saw are about $60. And I wonder if one
could fit on a table saw that was powerful enough.(Though I doubt it,
because the whole set-up sounds like it's proprietary).

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

  #25   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
DoN. Nichols
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tool Terms

According to :
DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to :


[ ... ]

Actually it never crossed my mind to rotate the work piece while
machining.(I'd sooner put to the workpiece in the spidle).


If you need to make a groove or a slot which forms only part of
a circle, you'll need to rotate the workpiece in something like an index
head or a rotary table.


Or plunge and file until I get a more reasonable wet-up.(I'll be
checking Home Depot to see if I can find some lathe files).


Lathe files? I think that the answer is no -- given what Home
Depot tends to carry. And any file used on rotating work in a lathe
*must* have a handle, because there is a risk of the end of the file
getting caught on a jaw of the chuck, and the file being driven, tang
first, into your chest.

If you mean filing the groove to the curve after drilling a
bunch of holes to rough the shape, then what would be quite nice for the
task is a die filer and the proper files for a die filer (which cuts on
the draw, not the press, so it doesn't push the workpiece up from the
table.

Note that you will *not* be able to find a *new* die filer.
They are considered obsolete, and the files from them are difficult to
find as well.

MLA makes kits for building a die filer, but that needs more
tools than you currently have.

[ ... ]

I definitely won't be using the collets for tool holding and plan to
bid on a set of endmill holders: 7552009436

O.K. I see a problem with those. They have tanged ends, rather
than ends drilled and tapped for a drawbar. You will have a risk of
things coming loose still.

The tangs are the reason I hadn't bid yet. I wasn't sure what that was
about. @#$%! And I thought I might have been onto a deal.


It would have been a deal -- if you only intended plunge milling
and no side motion. However, with the side motion, you really need a
way to use a drawbar.


Ok.: 7599888531


O.K. Those will do.

I assume that making a drawbar is not problem,


Quite easy -- with a quick-and-dirty one using some allthread
(long threaded rod), matching nuts, and a flat washer. Those endmill
holders actually specify the thread, so you can get started on it now,
if you so desire.

but do I really need to
buy a collet closer?:

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=2374


At that price, I would not bother to *try* to make one. :-)

The tube is hollow, with internal threads to match the external
threads on the back of the collet. You won't find a tap to match the
threads on the back of the collet, so you would have to master the art
of single-point threading.

The nosepiece is a precise Morse taper (to match the inside of
your spindle), and a precise internal taper and key (to match the
collet), and is hardened and ground to size, not turned.

Only with a Hardinge lathe, whose internal taper on the spindle
matches the collets, can you do without that nosepiece. (Or on the very
few lathes which compete directly with Hardinge as clones.)

7582356634 5/8" DRILL CHUCK W/ STRAIGHT / MT / R8 SHANK ARBOR NEW! 1
US $18.95


[ ... ]

And -- a 5/8" chuck takes up more of the limited distance
between the tailstock and the spindle nose. For a 2MT tailstock ram, I
would typically use a 3/8" chuck, or *maybe* a 1/2" one -- carefully.
My 5/8" chuck is on a MT-3 arbor, not MT-2.


I'd like to point out that I'm getting the MT2 version for the
tailstock.: 7530390913


The MT-3 would not fit, anyway. But the arbor taper is not what
defines the amount of space taken up -- it is the overall length of the
chuck body and jaws, which is greater on a 5/8" than on a 1/2" (which
you seem to have now settled upon.)

And little Machine Shop actually sells for for my specific lathe:
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=1148


Hmm ... the note he

================================================== ====================
Chris' Tips
If you purchase this product you will not have to cut the tang off the
Morse taper. The arbor on this chuck is the correct length for the mini
lathe.
================================================== ====================

suggests that this might be the best choice. And that your tailstock
will not accommodate the tang on drills or other things, so there is not
that anti-spin safety feature.

Nevertheless, Plastics like Delrin will be a big part of my projects,
so cutting forces wouldn't be as big a deal with those large chucks.

Speaking of the tailstock. I was wondering what you thought about die
holders. The one sold specifically for my lathe holds 13/16 inch O.D.
dies for threading shafts. The 1/2 inch O.D. shank fits the larger
tailstock chucks and has 3/8 inch hole for threaded stock to pass
through. It's blackened steel with a set screw and wrench to hold the
die.


I prefer to single-point cut most threads, and for other things
I prefer to use Geometric die heads in the turret on my lathe, though I
have used die holders adapted to my lathe on rare occasions.

They are sell an expensive 14 piece tap & die set:
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares...oduct&ID=14153


Most of those are probably smaller than you really need.

But since I am already getting some wrenches(7524114193), I'll get only
what I need for now *the same seller*. I believe these are the standard
sizes: 7532135748


O.K. I'm not sure that you will need the larger ones in that
set, but the whole price is cheap enough -- I just hope that the quality
is there.

BTW. I've noticed that the Little Machine Shop site seems to assume
that if people use collets with their mini-lathes, they would be 3C
collets.(So I assume that my specific needs that require 5C are not
normal).


The 5C collets are *gigantic* compared to what is normal with
that lathe. And the major benefit with them on *larger* lathes is that
you can pass 1" diameter stock through the lathe spindle and the collet,
to do production work. (They are also cheaper than 3C collets of equal
quality, because there are so many more made.

Most of my drill will have to be from the head stock because I'll need
to be able to keep re-positioning the work to make a variety of holes
and slots.


O.K. Though a drill press is probably better for this most of
the time.


Ok. I'm still in the market for a good table-top drill press.


O.K. The problem may be the intersection of "good" and "table
top" for new drill presses. Most these days are very cheaply made.

-snip-

I'm looking into the plausiblity of making worm gears on this lathe.


It can be done, though I have never done it.

I am however working on an idea for special gear-making jig. It's king
of an upside-down "pendulum-type" holder located on the slide, with a
crank that will ratchet the work.


I'm afraid that I don't grasp how it works or precisely what it
looks like.

[ ... ]

Take a look at these: 7598678434 & 7598678968


[ ... ]

I'm told by the seller that the Steel Max saws only come with a mild
steel blade. So I'd need to purchase a separate stainless steel blade
to cut through 1/4" S.S.(Whatever that means).


I would first worry about the noise issue. While the lathe and
the mill will be reasonably quiet, *this* thing will not. For the larger
one, 1450 RPM, combined with the 80 tooth blade for SS, will make for
about a 1.93 KHZ scream. Something which I might live with in my
stand-alone dwelling, with the shop having replaced the two-car garage,
but I don't think that using it in an apartment building would work out.


Yess. The first thing I thought about was the noise also. I don't even
think I coul duse it down in the storage room. But if I can make a
cutting jig of some sort I could find someplace else to knock off
enough plates because it is completely portable. And I'm assuming that
there woul dbe more material wastse than from a capable bandsaw.


Not much more -- unless you can benefit from a curved cut.

If you really want to minimize material waste, find someone with
a shear capable of cutting the material. There should be no waste with
a careful operator.

The blades for this circular saw are about $60. And I wonder if one
could fit on a table saw that was powerful enough.(Though I doubt it,
because the whole set-up sounds like it's proprietary).


Compare the speeds. I don't know what the spindle speed of a
table saw is, but the 7-1/4" saw in your auction before runs at 3600
RPM, and probably would have serious problems at higher speeds.

For aluminum and even brass, you would probably be O.K. but not
for stainless.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---


  #26   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Dave Hinz
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tool Terms

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:02:29 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:

And any file used on rotating work in a lathe
*must* have a handle, because there is a risk of the end of the file
getting caught on a jaw of the chuck,


Yes.

and the file being driven, tang
first, into your chest.


How could it possibly do that, when you're standing off to the side as
you should be when doing this sort of work?

MLA makes kits for building a die filer, but that needs more
tools than you currently have.


Do you have a link for MLA? Google finds me references to them but no
site directly.

  #27   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
James Waldby
 
Posts: n/a
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Dave Hinz wrote:
... DoN. Nichols ... wrote:

....
MLA makes kits for building a die filer, but that needs more
tools than you currently have.


Do you have a link for MLA? Google finds me references to them but no
site directly.


http://www.statecollegecentral.com/m...he/MLA-18.html
describes it and shows:
MLA-18 Filing Machine Basic Kit . . . . $99.50
Drawings and Instructions only . . . . .$16.00

-jiw
  #28   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Dave Hinz
 
Posts: n/a
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On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:10:33 -0700, James Waldby wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:


Do you have a link for MLA? Google finds me references to them but no
site directly.


http://www.statecollegecentral.com/m...he/MLA-18.html
describes it and shows:
MLA-18 Filing Machine Basic Kit . . . . $99.50
Drawings and Instructions only . . . . .$16.00


Ah, excellent. Looks like a metalworking version of a drum sander? Goes
around, and up & down? Why would that be considered obsolete?

  #29   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Gerald Miller
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tool Terms

On 28 Mar 2006 16:29:52 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:02:29 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:

And any file used on rotating work in a lathe
*must* have a handle, because there is a risk of the end of the file
getting caught on a jaw of the chuck,


Yes.

and the file being driven, tang
first, into your chest.


How could it possibly do that, when you're standing off to the side as
you should be when doing this sort of work?


It helps a lot if you have learned to file left handed.

MLA makes kits for building a die filer, but that needs more
tools than you currently have.


Do you have a link for MLA? Google finds me references to them but no
site directly.


Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
  #30   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Dave Hinz
 
Posts: n/a
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On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:56:45 -0500, Gerald Miller wrote:
On 28 Mar 2006 16:29:52 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:


How could it possibly do that, when you're standing off to the side as
you should be when doing this sort of work?


It helps a lot if you have learned to file left handed.


Absolutely. Left hand on the handle, right hand on the end of the file
doing the steering. So the dexterity (heh) is still with the right
hand for the process. Not something I was taught, specifically, it just
makes sense to do it that way. Learned a long time ago to consider what
will happen when a tool slips or breaks and how that'll impact the
flesh.



  #31   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
DoN. Nichols
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tool Terms

According to Dave Hinz :
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:10:33 -0700, James Waldby wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:


Do you have a link for MLA? Google finds me references to them but no
site directly.


http://www.statecollegecentral.com/m...he/MLA-18.html
describes it and shows:
MLA-18 Filing Machine Basic Kit . . . . $99.50
Drawings and Instructions only . . . . .$16.00


Ah, excellent. Looks like a metalworking version of a drum sander? Goes
around, and up & down? Why would that be considered obsolete?


It does not go around -- just up and down. There are various
shapes of files which were available (and which are sometimes found if
you are lucky even today). Round would be no problem with the rotation
which you suggest, but the square, triangular, knife-shaped, elliptical,
and others (with our without safe edges) would not be too happy to be
rotated.

As for why are they considered obsolete? Mostly, what they did
(finish work on the manufacture of dies to produce the relief angles and
such) is now done as part of the primary work pass using CNC. As a
result, finding a source of the files is more difficult, and many people
simply modify regular files in various ways. (Obviously, making a shank
to clamp them on the opposite end of the file from where the normal
shank lives.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
  #32   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
DoN. Nichols
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tool Terms

According to Dave Hinz :
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:02:29 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:

And any file used on rotating work in a lathe
*must* have a handle, because there is a risk of the end of the file
getting caught on a jaw of the chuck,


Yes.

and the file being driven, tang
first, into your chest.


How could it possibly do that, when you're standing off to the side as
you should be when doing this sort of work?


Because the presence of the handle is a secondary safety feature
to be used in addition to the standing to the side. When someone is
focused on the work, it is possible to forget the proper safety
precautions. Having two things protecting the user is better than just
one.

MLA makes kits for building a die filer, but that needs more
tools than you currently have.


Do you have a link for MLA? Google finds me references to them but no
site directly.


You've already received that from someone else, so I won't
duplicate it.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
  #33   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
 
Posts: n/a
Default Tool Terms


DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to :
DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to :


[ ... ]

Actually it never crossed my mind to rotate the work piece while
machining.(I'd sooner put to the workpiece in the spidle).

If you need to make a groove or a slot which forms only part of
a circle, you'll need to rotate the workpiece in something like an index
head or a rotary table.


Or plunge and file until I get a more reasonable wet-up.(I'll be
checking Home Depot to see if I can find some lathe files).


Lathe files? I think that the answer is no -- given what Home
Depot tends to carry. And any file used on rotating work in a lathe
*must* have a handle, because there is a risk of the end of the file
getting caught on a jaw of the chuck, and the file being driven, tang
first, into your chest.


I want to deburr, clean, upgrade gibs, screws, ect., and correct slop
where needed on my lathe before I begin any project, and I've read here
that files are some of the first basic tools I should have.

If you mean filing the groove to the curve after drilling a
bunch of holes to rough the shape, then what would be quite nice for the
task is a die filer and the proper files for a die filer (which cuts on
the draw, not the press, so it doesn't push the workpiece up from the
table.


Actually, at the moment the only thing I'd have to perform those
operations on is Delrin. So plunge and file should be sufficient.

Note that you will *not* be able to find a *new* die filer.
They are considered obsolete, and the files from them are difficult to
find as well.

MLA makes kits for building a die filer, but that needs more
tools than you currently have.


Then that definitely wouldn't be an option.

-snip-

I assume that making a drawbar is not problem,


Quite easy -- with a quick-and-dirty one using some allthread
(long threaded rod), matching nuts, and a flat washer. Those endmill
holders actually specify the thread, so you can get started on it now,
if you so desire.


Thanks.

but do I really need to
buy a collet closer?:

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=2374


At that price, I would not bother to *try* to make one. :-)

The tube is hollow, with internal threads to match the external
threads on the back of the collet. You won't find a tap to match the
threads on the back of the collet, so you would have to master the art
of single-point threading.

The nosepiece is a precise Morse taper (to match the inside of
your spindle), and a precise internal taper and key (to match the
collet), and is hardened and ground to size, not turned.

Only with a Hardinge lathe, whose internal taper on the spindle
matches the collets, can you do without that nosepiece. (Or on the very
few lathes which compete directly with Hardinge as clones.)


Then that specific collet closer is now on my Micro-Mark must get list.
:-)

7582356634 5/8" DRILL CHUCK W/ STRAIGHT / MT / R8 SHANK ARBOR NEW! 1
US $18.95


[ ... ]

And -- a 5/8" chuck takes up more of the limited distance
between the tailstock and the spindle nose. For a 2MT tailstock ram, I
would typically use a 3/8" chuck, or *maybe* a 1/2" one -- carefully.
My 5/8" chuck is on a MT-3 arbor, not MT-2.


I'd like to point out that I'm getting the MT2 version for the
tailstock.: 7530390913


The MT-3 would not fit, anyway. But the arbor taper is not what
defines the amount of space taken up -- it is the overall length of the
chuck body and jaws, which is greater on a 5/8" than on a 1/2" (which
you seem to have now settled upon.)


I wouldn't say "settled".(7603005250) I like to cover all bases. :-)
But I was thinking that perhaps I should use MT3 arbors on all three
and get a separate 3/8" or 1/2" chuck just for the tailstock.(I should
get a rotating tailstock chuck also).

And little Machine Shop actually sells for for my specific lathe:
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=1148


Hmm ... the note he

================================================== ====================
Chris' Tips
If you purchase this product you will not have to cut the tang off the
Morse taper. The arbor on this chuck is the correct length for the mini
lathe.
================================================== ====================

suggests that this might be the best choice. And that your tailstock
will not accommodate the tang on drills or other things, so there is not
that anti-spin safety feature.


I'll find out soon. Though I don't see the tang in the picture on the
site, but isn't that needed to keep the chuck from rotating in the
tailstock?(Reading between the lines I think the length of the
tailstock morse taper is unconventional).

I just received the 5/8" chuck, which by the way is just under 3" long.
The arbor I received in a separate box, which has no tang, is an MT2
instead of the requested MT3. So I guess it is a good time to find out
how it fits the tailstock of my lathe before I inform the seller what
kind of arbors I want with the 1/2" and 3/8" chucks I won.

Nevertheless, Plastics like Delrin will be a big part of my projects,
so cutting forces wouldn't be as big a deal with those large chucks.

Speaking of the tailstock. I was wondering what you thought about die
holders. The one sold specifically for my lathe holds 13/16 inch O.D.
dies for threading shafts. The 1/2 inch O.D. shank fits the larger
tailstock chucks and has 3/8 inch hole for threaded stock to pass
through. It's blackened steel with a set screw and wrench to hold the
die.


I prefer to single-point cut most threads, and for other things
I prefer to use Geometric die heads in the turret on my lathe, though I
have used die holders adapted to my lathe on rare occasions.

They are sell an expensive 14 piece tap & die set:
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares...oduct&ID=14153


Most of those are probably smaller than you really need.

But since I am already getting some wrenches(7524114193), I'll get only
what I need for now *the same seller*. I believe these are the standard
sizes: 7532135748


O.K. I'm not sure that you will need the larger ones in that
set, but the whole price is cheap enough -- I just hope that the quality
is there.


I'll find out the hard way. Most, if not all of the stuff this seller
auctions comes from China. The company's site is www.Shars.com

BTW. I've noticed that the Little Machine Shop site seems to assume
that if people use collets with their mini-lathes, they would be 3C
collets.(So I assume that my specific needs that require 5C are not
normal).


The 5C collets are *gigantic* compared to what is normal with
that lathe. And the major benefit with them on *larger* lathes is that
you can pass 1" diameter stock through the lathe spindle and the collet,
to do production work. (They are also cheaper than 3C collets of equal
quality, because there are so many more made.


BTW. I doubt the collets I now have are really precision. The 33
collets seem to be of four different brands.(At least going by the four
different packages they came in).

And speaking of gigantic that spin indexer is about 9" long from end to
end. At least I'll have it for when I get a milling machine. :-)

Most of my drill will have to be from the head stock because I'll need
to be able to keep re-positioning the work to make a variety of holes
and slots.

O.K. Though a drill press is probably better for this most of
the time.


Ok. I'm still in the market for a good table-top drill press.


O.K. The problem may be the intersection of "good" and "table
top" for new drill presses. Most these days are very cheaply made.


I guess that's why I'm *still* in the market. :-)

Now that I come to think about it, perhaps I should just concentrate on
getting a Mill/Drill instead.

-snip-

I'm looking into the plausiblity of making worm gears on this lathe.


It can be done, though I have never done it.


I'm searching for somne books/sites on this subject.

I am however working on an idea for special gear-making jig. It's king
of an upside-down "pendulum-type" holder located on the slide, with a
crank that will ratchet the work.


I'm afraid that I don't grasp how it works or precisely what it
looks like.


Imagine an arm at 90 degrees to horizontal. At the end of the arm is a
platform on which will sit the gear material(metal disk). This platform
will index, and the arm will tilt bringing the disk into contact with
the rotating cutter.(My other idea involes the plaform sliding the disk
horizontally into the cutter).

Take a look at these: 7598678434 & 7598678968


[ ... ]

I'm told by the seller that the Steel Max saws only come with a mild
steel blade. So I'd need to purchase a separate stainless steel blade
to cut through 1/4" S.S.(Whatever that means).

I would first worry about the noise issue. While the lathe and
the mill will be reasonably quiet, *this* thing will not. For the larger
one, 1450 RPM, combined with the 80 tooth blade for SS, will make for
about a 1.93 KHZ scream. Something which I might live with in my
stand-alone dwelling, with the shop having replaced the two-car garage,
but I don't think that using it in an apartment building would work out.


Yess. The first thing I thought about was the noise also. I don't even
think I coul duse it down in the storage room. But if I can make a
cutting jig of some sort I could find someplace else to knock off
enough plates because it is completely portable. And I'm assuming that
there woul dbe more material wastse than from a capable bandsaw.


Not much more -- unless you can benefit from a curved cut.

If you really want to minimize material waste, find someone with
a shear capable of cutting the material. There should be no waste with
a careful operator.


That would be cost prohibitive.

The blades for this circular saw are about $60. And I wonder if one
could fit on a table saw that was powerful enough.(Though I doubt it,
because the whole set-up sounds like it's proprietary).


Compare the speeds. I don't know what the spindle speed of a
table saw is, but the 7-1/4" saw in your auction before runs at 3600
RPM, and probably would have serious problems at higher speeds.

For aluminum and even brass, you would probably be O.K. but not
for stainless.


Ok. It's obviously best to just by the 4" X 4" plates pre-cut.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

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