With the lack of an AC tig machine and an AC inverter appearing to not
be in the cards in the near future i"m looking at using Oxy/Acetylene to
do the al Welding due to the availability of an OA rig. Mainly i used it
for cuttingbut thats not to say its impractical for welding. If i
remember right OA has been used for Al welding for a long time
specifically in the aviation industry.

Compared to TIG how hard is OA welding of aluminum and are there any
special types of requirements for doing it? The only OA welding i would
be doing would be on Al and the rest of the time it would be used for
heat/cutting

I already have an OA torch (Cheap Harris style kit) but stumbled across
a real Victor 100 Handle Might i be better off getting a fresh welding
tip for the victor 100? than the giant beast of this harris one?

I will likely never weld larger than 1/4" with most work being smaller
than that (1/8" to 1/16")

the Victor 100 seems to be the most like the tig torch i'n used to
compared to the big beast of the current torch. If thats the case than
has anyone used gas quick connect fittings to swap torches and are those
reliable or am i looking to blow myself up

BLowing myself or the shop/house up is EXTREMELY LOW on my list of
priorities

Welding Aluminum with Oxy/Acet DOES NOT work due to the impuritys from
the enviornment entering the weld area. Tig or Mig are used
specifically for the reason that it has a shield of inert gas such as
Helium or Argon surronding the Stinger wich keeps impuritys out of the
weld area.

Glenn Hendrix
Hendrix Machine & Tool. Inc.

I gas weld aluminum. I use my Henrob torch for this but any gas torch
will do. The trick is to keep your gas pressures set low. If you need
more heat then change to a larger tip but keep the oxy and acetylene
pressures no higher than 4 psi. The other thing that you will need is
some flux for your aluminum rods and a good set of special goggles for
viewing the weld properly. A few years back everyone was using these
cobalt blue goggles but they weren't that good for your eyes. I use
goggles that have a gold reflective surface on them. I picked them up
at the welding shop and they work really good. Welding aluminum is a
bit tricky because the color doesn't change when the metal heats up
like steel does. Aluminum is a bit like plastic, one minute its there
and then all of a sudden the floor drops out and you have a big hole.
The trick is to look for when a skin appears to form on the surface and
then push your filler rod in and a way you go. Without the special
goggles, you won't be able to see the skin effect. Practice on lots of
scrap stuff first before getting into some more serious work. You'll
get the hang of it in no time.

----------------------------------
Brent Philion Jan 22, 12:08 am

With the lack of an AC tig machine and an AC inverter appearing to not
be in the cards in the near future i"m looking at using Oxy/Acetylene
to
do the al Welding due to the availability of an OA rig. Mainly i used
it
for cuttingbut thats not to say its impractical for welding. If i
remember right OA has been used for Al welding for a long time
specifically in the aviation industry.

Compared to TIG how hard is OA welding of aluminum and are there any
special types of requirements for doing it? The only OA welding i would
be doing would be on Al and the rest of the time it would be used for
heat/cutting

I already have an OA torch (Cheap Harris style kit) but stumbled across
a real Victor 100 Handle Might i be better off getting a fresh welding
tip for the victor 100? than the giant beast of this harris one?

I will likely never weld larger than 1/4" with most work being smaller
than that (1/8" to 1/16")

I would have to disagree with this statement.
I have been gas welding aluminum for years.

http://www.tinmantech.com/html/alumi...ing_system.php

-----------------------------------------
rghendrix Jan 22, 1:36 am

Welding Aluminum with Oxy/Acet DOES NOT work due to the impuritys from
the enviornment entering the weld area. Tig or Mig are used
specifically for the reason that it has a shield of inert gas such as
Helium or Argon surronding the Stinger wich keeps impuritys out of the
weld area.

Glenn Hendrix
Hendrix Machine & Tool. Inc.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 02:08:53 -0500, Brent Philion
wrote:

With the lack of an AC tig machine and an AC inverter appearing to not
be in the cards in the near future i"m looking at using Oxy/Acetylene to
do the al Welding due to the availability of an OA rig. Mainly i used it
for cuttingbut thats not to say its impractical for welding. If i
remember right OA has been used for Al welding for a long time
specifically in the aviation industry.

Compared to TIG how hard is OA welding of aluminum and are there any
special types of requirements for doing it? The only OA welding i would
be doing would be on Al and the rest of the time it would be used for
heat/cutting

I already have an OA torch (Cheap Harris style kit) but stumbled across
a real Victor 100 Handle Might i be better off getting a fresh welding
tip for the victor 100? than the giant beast of this harris one?

I will likely never weld larger than 1/4" with most work being smaller
than that (1/8" to 1/16")

the Victor 100 seems to be the most like the tig torch i'n used to
compared to the big beast of the current torch. If thats the case than
has anyone used gas quick connect fittings to swap torches and are those
reliable or am i looking to blow myself up

BLowing myself or the shop/house up is EXTREMELY LOW on my list of
priorities

O/A can definitely be used to weld aluminum. It is the first choice
of many for sheetmetal on aircraft and various automotive work. I
do it routinely with 1/16" and less, prefer TIG for thicker
materials. It would take a big tip and a lot of gas to weld 1/4"
aluminum, but it certainly can be done. 1/16" to 1/8" is easily
done with O/A. Some say that gas welds in thinner metal are more
ductile than TIG or MIG and hold up better to subsequent metalworking
operations like planishing or further forming.

I don't think welding aluminum is any harder with gas than it is with
TIG. With metal 1/16" and less I think it's easier -- but read on.

You can order a videotape on O/A welding of aluminum from
www.tinmantech.com
I've not seen it but it's probably a good start. You can also
download a short video showing aluminum being gas-welded from
www.cut-like-plasma.com It's objective is to sell the Henrob torch.
Don't worry about that. Your torch will work fine. The Henrob's
performance as a cutting torch is impressive, but others have
indicated preference for other torches for welding and the Henrob
is a rather pricey torch. Your torch, with appropriately-sized tips,
should work fine.

Special requirements: yes! Aluminum welding requires flux. The
reverse polarity part of the AC cycle cleans oxides with TIG,
flux does it with gas. Some welding stores will have it. The tin
man and cut-like-plasma offer it too.

Aluminum flux produces a bright incandescant "flare" that must be
blocked in order to see the puddle and to see when a puddle is
imminent. Eyewear that blocks that flare is absolutely essential
to successful gas welding of aluminum. Regular goggles don't do it,
not even close. It's not a matter of "dark" but one of blocking the
flare without obscuring the puddle.

Cobalt blue glass was used for many years, but is no longer used
because it doesn't block some harmful rays. There's probably some
OSHA overkill there for the occasional user, but I've used them and
can tell you that there is now a far better choice available.

The TM2000 green dydimium lens, available from the tin man,
cut-like-plasma and some other places, is a bit pricey but I'd regard
it as the single most important tool to have for gas welding aluminum.
It works extremely well. I know of no cheaper alternative that works
remotely as well.

Cut-like-plasma does offer an alternative lower cost lens.
I've not tried it. HIs video is obviously shot thru the TM2000. If
you're serious about learning to weld aluminum with gas, I would
strongly encourage you to get a TM2000 filter.

The other indispensible tool is a stainless steel "toothbrush" for
scrubbing the metal clean just before welding. They're available at
any welding store for well under $2.00 each. If you're familar with
TIG welding aluminum you know about those already.

I don't know anything about gas quick-connects. I sure wouldn't use
compressed-air quickconnects, don't even think about it! Those
either leak or are about to.

On 22 Jan 2006 00:36:12 -0800, "rghendrix"
wrote:

Welding Aluminum with Oxy/Acet DOES NOT work due to the impuritys from
the enviornment entering the weld area. Tig or Mig are used
specifically for the reason that it has a shield of inert gas such as
Helium or Argon surronding the Stinger wich keeps impuritys out of the
weld area.

Glenn Hendrix
Hendrix Machine & Tool. Inc.

Wrong. Dead wrong. Bull****! Read the Alcoa textbook about
aluminum welding , and regard the craft of expert metalworkers in
custom aircraft and racecars before you embarrass yourself further.

I do try hard to be civil, but it sorely irritates me when one
offering credentials of credibility ( Hendrix Machine & Tool, Inc)
posts dead-wrong opinion-posing-as-fact that would misguide an
earnest poster asking for guidance.

So much for your credentials and credibility.

BTW, "Stinger" sometimes refers to a stick-welding rod (SMAW process)
but not usually to the tungsten electrode in GTAW (TIG) or the wire
in GMAW (MIG).

In article ,
Brent Philion wrote:

With the lack of an AC tig machine and an AC inverter appearing to not
be in the cards in the near future i"m looking at using Oxy/Acetylene to
do the al Welding due to the availability of an OA rig. Mainly i used it
for cuttingbut thats not to say its impractical for welding. If i
remember right OA has been used for Al welding for a long time
specifically in the aviation industry.

Compared to TIG how hard is OA welding of aluminum and are there any
special types of requirements for doing it? The only OA welding i would
be doing would be on Al and the rest of the time it would be used for
heat/cutting


Go to http://www.tinmantech.com

They have all the info, and supplies, for gas welding aluminum.


Allstate also sells aluminum brazing supplies.
They call it Allstate #31

http://products.esabna.com/index.htm...687e391f2479c1
166c1b5a3/screen/filler_metals_product_detail/category_id/id4367f2a976b2f
9.04496423/category_ids/3143


I already have an OA torch (Cheap Harris style kit) but stumbled across
a real Victor 100 Handle Might i be better off getting a fresh welding
tip for the victor 100? than the giant beast of this harris one?

I will likely never weld larger than 1/4" with most work being smaller
than that (1/8" to 1/16")

the Victor 100 seems to be the most like the tig torch i'n used to
compared to the big beast of the current torch. If thats the case than
has anyone used gas quick connect fittings to swap torches and are those
reliable or am i looking to blow myself up

BLowing myself or the shop/house up is EXTREMELY LOW on my list of
priorities

I use Western brand quick disconnects for all my torches.
They work very well.
I also use their disconnects for my shielding gasses.

--
"I love deadlines, especially the wooshing sound they make as
they fly by" - Douglas Adams

On 22 Jan 2006 00:37:43 -0800, "Buy_Sell"
wrote:

I gas weld aluminum. I use my Henrob torch for this but any gas torch
will do. The trick is to keep your gas pressures set low. If you need
more heat then change to a larger tip but keep the oxy and acetylene
pressures no higher than 4 psi.

The key here is gas velocity, set your pressure for whatever torch you
use to provide a low-velocity flame. 4 psi is a pretty good
guideline.

My favorite torch is the Meco Midget but I use several others as
well. Don't own a Henrob and don't lust after one, though I would if
I didn't have plasma for cutting.

4 psi is what Henrob likes for any size tip because it's designed
to be so. But there's nothing magic about the pressure. The
key is to keep gas velocity down so it doesn't blow the puddle.
You can throttle some with the valves on the torch if the torch has
good valves.

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:34:22 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:


Allstate also sells aluminum brazing supplies.
They call it Allstate #31

Good stuff for thin metal, be sure to get the #31 flux as well. It
doe not work well (for me) on metal over .062" for some reason.
Allstate #31 was developed for HVAC work, joining aluminum tubing in
refrigeration systems. It works really well for that. I first
saw it demonstrated at an ASHRAE show when it was first introduced. I
was amazed.

Tinmantech also offers a similar brazing material, Aerobraze, with
companion flux.

I've had varying reports from others on these two materials: some say
one works for them while the other doesn't, and conversely. I don't
know why. I like them both on thin metal. The Allstate #31 is way
lots cheaper, available from Grainger.

The difference in temperature between either of them and welding is
less than 100 degrees F. That's a big difference on thin metal,
but I find it as easy or easier to weld as to braze on material .050"
and thicker. Neither of these materials work well for butt joints;
they're better for fillet or lap joints as one might design for
brazing. Butt joints and outside corner joints are best done by
welding.

I guess they're really different processes. I can cut a preform out
of either Allstate #31 or Aerobraze, set it in place with appropriate
flux, heat until it wets and flows resulting in a joint that looks
just like a silverbrazed joint in brass or steel. Welding aluminum
is, well, more like welding, melt and dab while controlling a puddle.

Don Foreman wrote:

The key here is gas velocity, set your pressure for whatever torch you
use to provide a low-velocity flame. 4 psi is a pretty good
guideline.

Sorry for dropping in. But this puzzles me a bit.
I mostly have my Oxy-regulater at 2.5 bar (36 psi) and the Ace-regulator
at 0.5bar (7 psi). That is what I have learned and I only change that
setting when I need some wired setting.
The kind of flame I want is regulated at the torch.
If I want a soft flame, I use a big tip and throttle Oxy and Ace down.
If I want a sharp flame, litte tip, oxy fully opened and adjust flame
with ace.

And also, I got better results when aluminium welding with a sharp
flame. That is because I can keep the puddle smaller. Al tends to have a
big (easily huge :-)) puddle because of the good conductivity.

And, while we are at Al welding: Preheat the work. Heat it up until a
wooden stick drawn over the part is dropping little sparks. It then has
the right temperature for OA-welding.

Heating up (to about 100°C) helps getting better first few inches when
MIG-welding Al.


Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
DIY-DRO - YADRO - Eigenbau-Digitalanzeige

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 12:31:02 +0100, (Nick Müller)
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

The key here is gas velocity, set your pressure for whatever torch you
use to provide a low-velocity flame. 4 psi is a pretty good
guideline.

Sorry for dropping in. But this puzzles me a bit.
I mostly have my Oxy-regulater at 2.5 bar (36 psi) and the Ace-regulator
at 0.5bar (7 psi). That is what I have learned and I only change that
setting when I need some wired setting.
The kind of flame I want is regulated at the torch.
If I want a soft flame, I use a big tip and throttle Oxy and Ace down.
If I want a sharp flame, litte tip, oxy fully opened and adjust flame
with ace.

And also, I got better results when aluminium welding with a sharp
flame. That is because I can keep the puddle smaller. Al tends to have a
big (easily huge :-)) puddle because of the good conductivity.

And, while we are at Al welding: Preheat the work. Heat it up until a
wooden stick drawn over the part is dropping little sparks. It then has
the right temperature for OA-welding.

Heating up (to about 100°C) helps getting better first few inches when
MIG-welding Al.


Nick

Whatever works!

I also use the valves on my torch rather than observing any
particular regimen re pressure from the regulator. 2.5 bar of oxy
would be far too high for my torches, YMMV. Truth told, I pay no
attention to the gages at all. I only adjust regulators if I can't
get my torch to work right with the valves. I don't recall the last
time I adjusted the regulators. I know it's best to relax them when
shutting down after use, but I never do it. My bad.

I also sometimes use a wooden splint as a rough temp indicator, but
my usual visual cue is the behaviour of the flux. A useful
substitute for a wooden splint is a soot smear from a raw acetylene
flame. When the soot disappears, you're at about the same temp as the
wood stick test.

Don Foreman wrote:

Truth told, I pay no attention to the gages at all. I only adjust
regulators if I can't get my torch to work right with the valves.

OK, so do I. More or less.


Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
DIY-DRO - YADRO - Eigenbau-Digitalanzeige

Sounds about what I would have said. I found there is a subtle change in
the surface of the aluminium before it drops on the floor, I learned to
recognise this and all went fine. I have never used anything other than
standard OA welding googles for Al and never had an issue with being
able to see what I was doing clearly. People mention using special
lenses to cut the flare from the glowing flux but I have never
experienced this. I have never welded Al with OA extensively and these
days would typically use TIG unless I had a benefit from using OA,
typically it leaves a more ductile weld which may be beneficial if you
are doing panel work.

Buy_Sell wrote:

I gas weld aluminum. I use my Henrob torch for this but any gas torch
will do. The trick is to keep your gas pressures set low. If you need
more heat then change to a larger tip but keep the oxy and acetylene
pressures no higher than 4 psi. The other thing that you will need is
some flux for your aluminum rods and a good set of special goggles for
viewing the weld properly. A few years back everyone was using these
cobalt blue goggles but they weren't that good for your eyes. I use
goggles that have a gold reflective surface on them. I picked them up
at the welding shop and they work really good. Welding aluminum is a
bit tricky because the color doesn't change when the metal heats up
like steel does. Aluminum is a bit like plastic, one minute its there
and then all of a sudden the floor drops out and you have a big hole.
The trick is to look for when a skin appears to form on the surface and
then push your filler rod in and a way you go. Without the special
goggles, you won't be able to see the skin effect. Practice on lots of
scrap stuff first before getting into some more serious work. You'll
get the hang of it in no time.

----------------------------------
Brent Philion Jan 22, 12:08 am

With the lack of an AC tig machine and an AC inverter appearing to not
be in the cards in the near future i"m looking at using Oxy/Acetylene
to
do the al Welding due to the availability of an OA rig. Mainly i used
it
for cuttingbut thats not to say its impractical for welding. If i
remember right OA has been used for Al welding for a long time
specifically in the aviation industry.

Compared to TIG how hard is OA welding of aluminum and are there any
special types of requirements for doing it? The only OA welding i would
be doing would be on Al and the rest of the time it would be used for
heat/cutting

I already have an OA torch (Cheap Harris style kit) but stumbled across
a real Victor 100 Handle Might i be better off getting a fresh welding
tip for the victor 100? than the giant beast of this harris one?

I will likely never weld larger than 1/4" with most work being smaller
than that (1/8" to 1/16")

On 22 Jan 2006 00:44:26 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Buy_Sell" quickly quoth:

I would have to disagree with this statement.
I have been gas welding aluminum for years.

http://www.tinmantech.com/html/alumi...ing_system.php

Those $3 stainless steel flux cups are going for a quarter apiece on
the kitchen aisle at Wally World (4/$0.97) if anyone's interested.
Made in India.

- This product cruelly tested on defenseless furry animals -
--------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Web App & Database Programming

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 02:08:53 -0500, Brent Philion
wrote:

Compared to TIG how hard is OA welding of aluminum

I find it easier, but then I've got a fair bit of OA experience with
steel and I'm a complete numpty with TIG.

One thing I did find is that the aluminium alloy affected things.
Magnesium alloys (about 15% Mg) in vehicle or aircraft sheetmetal was no
problem to work, purer aluminium didn't give me such good results. Welds
seemed structurally OK, but never looked as neat.

Tool up with the right fluxes and go to it for some practice. These
things are fairly easily available, but the English flux for 15% Mg is
obviously the best stuff - if only for the name "Hari-Kiri No. 2" !
(read the Landrover service manual).

A word on fluxes though - these things are horribly toxic when heated,
and their vapours. I'd been using them for years, but I blanched when I
found out just what was in them afterwards. Now I'm a _lot_ more careful
about ventilation than I used to be.

Don Foreman wrote:

On 22 Jan 2006 00:36:12 -0800, "rghendrix"
wrote:


Welding Aluminum with Oxy/Acet DOES NOT work due to the impuritys from
the enviornment entering the weld area. Tig or Mig are used
specifically for the reason that it has a shield of inert gas such as
Helium or Argon surronding the Stinger wich keeps impuritys out of the
weld area.

Glenn Hendrix
Hendrix Machine & Tool. Inc.


Wrong. Dead wrong. Bull****! Read the Alcoa textbook about
aluminum welding , and regard the craft of expert metalworkers in
custom aircraft and racecars before you embarrass yourself further.

I do try hard to be civil, but it sorely irritates me when one
offering credentials of credibility ( Hendrix Machine & Tool, Inc)
posts dead-wrong opinion-posing-as-fact that would misguide an
earnest poster asking for guidance.

So much for your credentials and credibility.

That is the very reason I have quit reading any posts on electricity.
There are even more of those "opinion-posing -as -fact" type posts.
It just gives me an ulcer. :-)
...lew...

Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

Go to http://www.tinmantech.com

They have all the info, and supplies, for gas welding aluminum.


I was wondering when somebody was going to post this URL.

The "sharp flame point" is a carbonizing flame(?)
And aluminum welds need the extra carbon.

One tip (I think from Bud Davisson?) was to place a wooden
match stick on the weld line and just weld thru it...
Haven't tried that one - but ?

The metals need to be absolutely clean. Tinman recommends a
stainless steel brush that is not used for anything else -
ever.

and all the rest...

My single biggest reason for OA welding aluminum is the "bird in the
hand" theory. I have an OA setup basically used for heating and
occasionally cutting and a DC tig setup. Putting 100-200 to touch up the
OA kit is a lot more affordable than putting in 1-2 thousand for a
replacement tig welder with the 2000 dollar tig welder MAYBE meeting my
portability needs. I'm about 50/50 right now with me needing to get
myself or the welder near the work or the work being able to come to me

Until I swap out my Miller XMT for a dedicated AC/DC TIG machine i'm sol
for trying to tig Al on DC (I tried anyhow despite understanding why it
doesnt work and it took me into the corner and beat me and made it
crystal clear why and how AC tig works)

your Descriptions though dont really sound any different from What it
does on TIG when i had access to an AC/DC machine.

Perhaps i should ask it this way how close is it to tig without the
pedal control? I know i needed a Lot of practice to do Al in tig when i
was learning but i saw the same conditions I think.



David Billington wrote:
Sounds about what I would have said. I found there is a subtle change in
the surface of the aluminium before it drops on the floor, I learned to
recognise this and all went fine. I have never used anything other than
standard OA welding googles for Al and never had an issue with being
able to see what I was doing clearly. People mention using special
lenses to cut the flare from the glowing flux but I have never
experienced this. I have never welded Al with OA extensively and these
days would typically use TIG unless I had a benefit from using OA,
typically it leaves a more ductile weld which may be beneficial if you
are doing panel work.

Buy_Sell wrote:

I gas weld aluminum. I use my Henrob torch for this but any gas torch
will do. The trick is to keep your gas pressures set low. If you need
more heat then change to a larger tip but keep the oxy and acetylene
pressures no higher than 4 psi. The other thing that you will need is
some flux for your aluminum rods and a good set of special goggles for
viewing the weld properly. A few years back everyone was using these
cobalt blue goggles but they weren't that good for your eyes. I use
goggles that have a gold reflective surface on them. I picked them up
at the welding shop and they work really good. Welding aluminum is a
bit tricky because the color doesn't change when the metal heats up
like steel does. Aluminum is a bit like plastic, one minute its there
and then all of a sudden the floor drops out and you have a big hole.
The trick is to look for when a skin appears to form on the surface and
then push your filler rod in and a way you go. Without the special
goggles, you won't be able to see the skin effect. Practice on lots of
scrap stuff first before getting into some more serious work. You'll
get the hang of it in no time.

----------------------------------
Brent Philion Jan 22, 12:08 am

With the lack of an AC tig machine and an AC inverter appearing to not
be in the cards in the near future i"m looking at using Oxy/Acetylene
to
do the al Welding due to the availability of an OA rig. Mainly i used
it
for cuttingbut thats not to say its impractical for welding. If i
remember right OA has been used for Al welding for a long time
specifically in the aviation industry.

Compared to TIG how hard is OA welding of aluminum and are there any
special types of requirements for doing it? The only OA welding i would
be doing would be on Al and the rest of the time it would be used for
heat/cutting

I already have an OA torch (Cheap Harris style kit) but stumbled across
a real Victor 100 Handle Might i be better off getting a fresh welding
tip for the victor 100? than the giant beast of this harris one?

I will likely never weld larger than 1/4" with most work being smaller
than that (1/8" to 1/16")

"David Billington" wrote in message
...
| Sounds about what I would have said. I found there is a subtle change in
| the surface of the aluminium before it drops on the floor, I learned to
| recognise this and all went fine. I have never used anything other than
| standard OA welding googles for Al and never had an issue with being
| able to see what I was doing clearly. People mention using special
| lenses to cut the flare from the glowing flux but I have never
| experienced this. I have never welded Al with OA extensively and these
| days would typically use TIG unless I had a benefit from using OA,
| typically it leaves a more ductile weld which may be beneficial if you
| are doing panel work.

I'm interested in how you do this, since most information on your method
is highly lacking on the web. Please, tell me more!

Brent Philion wrote:

My single biggest reason for OA welding aluminum is the "bird in the
hand" theory. I have an OA setup basically used for heating and
occasionally cutting and a DC tig setup. Putting 100-200 to touch up
the OA kit is a lot more affordable than putting in 1-2 thousand for a
replacement tig welder with the 2000 dollar tig welder MAYBE meeting
my portability needs. I'm about 50/50 right now with me needing to get
myself or the welder near the work or the work being able to come to me

Until I swap out my Miller XMT for a dedicated AC/DC TIG machine i'm
sol for trying to tig Al on DC (I tried anyhow despite understanding
why it doesnt work and it took me into the corner and beat me and made
it crystal clear why and how AC tig works)

You can weld Al with DC but use the reverse polarity to what you would
use for steel. I have never tried it. It does result in much more heat
at the torch so you would need to make sure the torch was up to it. I
think this would be like running AC TIG with the cleaning setting maxed out.



your Descriptions though dont really sound any different from What it
does on TIG when i had access to an AC/DC machine.

Perhaps i should ask it this way how close is it to tig without the
pedal control? I know i needed a Lot of practice to do Al in tig when
i was learning but i saw the same conditions I think.

Quite similar except you can control the heat with the torch distance
and attitude, also you can add more rod to the pool briefly to cool it
and help bring it under control. You also don't have to worry about
dipping the tungsten or hitting it with the rod. I would say that
welding Al is only slightly trickier than welding steel. I learned to
weld steel with OA and had a few years practice then tried Al and was
laying runs under control on Al after about 5 minutes practice. Due to
the similar skill between TIG and OA if you are having trouble with TIG
then it going to require practice with either process.





David Billington wrote:

Sounds about what I would have said. I found there is a subtle change
in the surface of the aluminium before it drops on the floor, I
learned to recognise this and all went fine. I have never used
anything other than standard OA welding googles for Al and never had
an issue with being able to see what I was doing clearly. People
mention using special lenses to cut the flare from the glowing flux
but I have never experienced this. I have never welded Al with OA
extensively and these days would typically use TIG unless I had a
benefit from using OA, typically it leaves a more ductile weld which
may be beneficial if you are doing panel work.

Buy_Sell wrote:

I gas weld aluminum. I use my Henrob torch for this but any gas torch
will do. The trick is to keep your gas pressures set low. If you need
more heat then change to a larger tip but keep the oxy and acetylene
pressures no higher than 4 psi. The other thing that you will need is
some flux for your aluminum rods and a good set of special goggles for
viewing the weld properly. A few years back everyone was using these
cobalt blue goggles but they weren't that good for your eyes. I use
goggles that have a gold reflective surface on them. I picked them up
at the welding shop and they work really good. Welding aluminum is a
bit tricky because the color doesn't change when the metal heats up
like steel does. Aluminum is a bit like plastic, one minute its there
and then all of a sudden the floor drops out and you have a big hole.
The trick is to look for when a skin appears to form on the surface and
then push your filler rod in and a way you go. Without the special
goggles, you won't be able to see the skin effect. Practice on lots of
scrap stuff first before getting into some more serious work. You'll
get the hang of it in no time.

----------------------------------
Brent Philion Jan 22, 12:08 am

With the lack of an AC tig machine and an AC inverter appearing to not
be in the cards in the near future i"m looking at using Oxy/Acetylene
to
do the al Welding due to the availability of an OA rig. Mainly i used
it
for cuttingbut thats not to say its impractical for welding. If i
remember right OA has been used for Al welding for a long time
specifically in the aviation industry.

Compared to TIG how hard is OA welding of aluminum and are there any
special types of requirements for doing it? The only OA welding i would
be doing would be on Al and the rest of the time it would be used for
heat/cutting

I already have an OA torch (Cheap Harris style kit) but stumbled across
a real Victor 100 Handle Might i be better off getting a fresh welding
tip for the victor 100? than the giant beast of this harris one?

I will likely never weld larger than 1/4" with most work being smaller
than that (1/8" to 1/16")

Have you read all the responses to Brent Philion's original post. There
has been alot of good information given. My initial response was mainly
to agree with the reply by Buy_Sell but ad that against what most have
said about the need for special goggles I have never found this a
requirement.

carl mciver wrote:

"David Billington" wrote in message
k...
| Sounds about what I would have said. I found there is a subtle change in
| the surface of the aluminium before it drops on the floor, I learned to
| recognise this and all went fine. I have never used anything other than
| standard OA welding googles for Al and never had an issue with being
| able to see what I was doing clearly. People mention using special
| lenses to cut the flare from the glowing flux but I have never
| experienced this. I have never welded Al with OA extensively and these
| days would typically use TIG unless I had a benefit from using OA,
| typically it leaves a more ductile weld which may be beneficial if you
| are doing panel work.

I'm interested in how you do this, since most information on your method
is highly lacking on the web. Please, tell me more!

David Billington wrote:


You can weld Al with DC but use the reverse polarity to what you would
use for steel. I have never tried it. It does result in much more heat
at the torch so you would need to make sure the torch was up to it. I
think this would be like running AC TIG with the cleaning setting maxed
out.


Tried it using both polarities and scrubbing like no tomorrow

DCEN
It hold an arc but staunchly refuses to flow liberal application of
filler can bind them but there is no strength (Logical reason being the
aluminum is encased in aluminum oxide which is forming a solid shell

DCEP
Black coating forms on the base metal arc wont strike

that COULD be me under scrubbing it (with the decicated AL only SS brush
mentioend in other posts which i already DO have)

But if so then i'm buying a few ss brushes for the dremel and using it
to prep my welds if i need to DC weld on AL again



your Descriptions though dont really sound any different from What it
does on TIG when i had access to an AC/DC machine.

Perhaps i should ask it this way how close is it to tig without the
pedal control? I know i needed a Lot of practice to do Al in tig when
i was learning but i saw the same conditions I think.


Quite similar except you can control the heat with the torch distance
and attitude, also you can add more rod to the pool briefly to cool it
and help bring it under control. You also don't have to worry about
dipping the tungsten or hitting it with the rod. I would say that
welding Al is only slightly trickier than welding steel. I learned to
weld steel with OA and had a few years practice then tried Al and was
laying runs under control on Al after about 5 minutes practice. Due to
the similar skill between TIG and OA if you are having trouble with TIG
then it going to require practice with either process.


I'm fine on Steel and stainless TIG AL tig i was in the process of
learning then bought a DC welder and stopped

I dont thing i'm ready for an AWS test yet on steel or stainless (I
grind way too much tungsten for now)

but i can produce decent welds when i'm patient (they might be good
welds but i'm my stiffest critic and i dont think so






David Billington wrote:

Sounds about what I would have said. I found there is a subtle change
in the surface of the aluminium before it drops on the floor, I
learned to recognise this and all went fine. I have never used
anything other than standard OA welding googles for Al and never had
an issue with being able to see what I was doing clearly. People
mention using special lenses to cut the flare from the glowing flux
but I have never experienced this. I have never welded Al with OA
extensively and these days would typically use TIG unless I had a
benefit from using OA, typically it leaves a more ductile weld which
may be beneficial if you are doing panel work.

Buy_Sell wrote:

I gas weld aluminum. I use my Henrob torch for this but any gas torch
will do. The trick is to keep your gas pressures set low. If you need
more heat then change to a larger tip but keep the oxy and acetylene
pressures no higher than 4 psi. The other thing that you will need is
some flux for your aluminum rods and a good set of special goggles for
viewing the weld properly. A few years back everyone was using these
cobalt blue goggles but they weren't that good for your eyes. I use
goggles that have a gold reflective surface on them. I picked them up
at the welding shop and they work really good. Welding aluminum is a
bit tricky because the color doesn't change when the metal heats up
like steel does. Aluminum is a bit like plastic, one minute its there
and then all of a sudden the floor drops out and you have a big hole.
The trick is to look for when a skin appears to form on the surface and
then push your filler rod in and a way you go. Without the special
goggles, you won't be able to see the skin effect. Practice on lots of
scrap stuff first before getting into some more serious work. You'll
get the hang of it in no time.

----------------------------------
Brent Philion Jan 22, 12:08 am

With the lack of an AC tig machine and an AC inverter appearing to not
be in the cards in the near future i"m looking at using Oxy/Acetylene
to
do the al Welding due to the availability of an OA rig. Mainly i used
it
for cuttingbut thats not to say its impractical for welding. If i
remember right OA has been used for Al welding for a long time
specifically in the aviation industry.

Compared to TIG how hard is OA welding of aluminum and are there any
special types of requirements for doing it? The only OA welding i would
be doing would be on Al and the rest of the time it would be used for
heat/cutting

I already have an OA torch (Cheap Harris style kit) but stumbled across
a real Victor 100 Handle Might i be better off getting a fresh welding
tip for the victor 100? than the giant beast of this harris one?

I will likely never weld larger than 1/4" with most work being smaller
than that (1/8" to 1/16")

I seem to remember that DC welding of aluminium required the use of
Helium as shielding gas; which do you use?

Peter,
The Netherlands.

Argon

One of the single biggest reasons for me to pick tig over MIG was the
need for only one inert gas bottle, Which is why i'm now looking at what
i need to do gas welding

wrote:
I seem to remember that DC welding of aluminium required the use of
Helium as shielding gas; which do you use?

Peter,
The Netherlands.

Brent Philion wrote:

With the lack of an AC tig machine and an AC inverter appearing to not
be in the cards in the near future i"m looking at using Oxy/Acetylene to
do the al Welding due to the availability of an OA rig. Mainly i used it
for cuttingbut thats not to say its impractical for welding. If i
remember right OA has been used for Al welding for a long time
specifically in the aviation industry.

Compared to TIG how hard is OA welding of aluminum and are there any
special types of requirements for doing it? The only OA welding i would
be doing would be on Al and the rest of the time it would be used for
heat/cutting

I already have an OA torch (Cheap Harris style kit) but stumbled across
a real Victor 100 Handle Might i be better off getting a fresh welding
tip for the victor 100? than the giant beast of this harris one?

I will likely never weld larger than 1/4" with most work being smaller
than that (1/8" to 1/16")

the Victor 100 seems to be the most like the tig torch i'n used to
compared to the big beast of the current torch. If thats the case than
has anyone used gas quick connect fittings to swap torches and are those
reliable or am i looking to blow myself up

BLowing myself or the shop/house up is EXTREMELY LOW on my list of
priorities


Gas welding AL is pretty tricky, and if you only need to weld AL
infrequently it might be better to hire a TIG set.

k

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 12:57:25 -0500, Brent Philion
wrote:



Perhaps i should ask it this way how close is it to tig without the
pedal control? I know i needed a Lot of practice to do Al in tig when i
was learning but i saw the same conditions I think.

Quite similar, as long as you can see the puddle. I see other
posters saying they don' need no fancy goggles. It's true, it can be
done. I and countless others were gas-welding aluminum before the
fancy TM2000 filter was invented. A mentor of mine could gas-weld TV
dinner trays and peel-off milk bottle caps ( some milk still came in
glass bottles then) together in the '60's with no eyewear at all.

I can do much better work with eyewear that blocks flux flare
without otherwise impairing visibility. YMMV.

As another poster noted, you control heat by backing off with the
flame, moving the flame and adjusting the flame. Matter of fact,
breaking that "back off" habit was the hardest part of learning to
TIG weld for me. Keep the tung in close, use the footpedal to
manage the heat. Man, that was a learning curve! Took me months
to break gas habits when using TIG.

You may have the opposite learning curve: learn to control heat with
torch position because there ain't no footpedal. I suspect that
won't take you long to learn if you can weld aluminum with TIG. You
already know what an aluminum puddle looks like (if you can see it)
and you know how to manage a puddle. A lot of what you learned with
TIG will be applicable if you can see the puddle. Some guys can weld
without being able to see the puddle. I've seen it done: some guys
in Colorado could TIG up traffic controller cabinets (the outhouses
you see on intersection corners) by scoping the shot, closing their
eyes and going for it. The welds they made were pretty damned good!
These were guys whose declared address turned out to be a KOA
Kampground or a Colorado address that computed to somewhere in
Argentina. Worked by the day, paid cash by the day, footloose and
fancy free.

Most of us pedestrians can weld better if we can see the puddle.

If we were located conveniently, I bet I'd have you welding aluminum
well with gas in 30 minutes if you already can do it with AC TIG.

David Billington wrote:

Sounds about what I would have said. I found there is a subtle change in
the surface of the aluminium before it drops on the floor, I learned to
recognise this and all went fine. I have never used anything other than
standard OA welding googles for Al and never had an issue with being
able to see what I was doing clearly. People mention using special
lenses to cut the flare from the glowing flux but I have never
experienced this. I have never welded Al with OA extensively and these
days would typically use TIG unless I had a benefit from using OA,
typically it leaves a more ductile weld which may be beneficial if you
are doing panel work.

You might want to try out the special lenses. They make a night and day
difference if you are Al welding (I couldn't imagine doing .025-.035
well without them). I don't find it as necessary brazing Al.

Brent Philion wrote:

David Billington wrote:


You can weld Al with DC but use the reverse polarity to what you would
use for steel. I have never tried it. It does result in much more heat
at the torch so you would need to make sure the torch was up to it. I
think this would be like running AC TIG with the cleaning setting maxed
out.


Tried it using both polarities and scrubbing like no tomorrow

DCEN
It hold an arc but staunchly refuses to flow liberal application of
filler can bind them but there is no strength (Logical reason being the
aluminum is encased in aluminum oxide which is forming a solid shell
DCEP
Black coating forms on the base metal arc wont strike

Run a helium mix with a small amount of argon to ease arc starting. You
can also try scratch starting it (with hf on though) Once you see the
skin just pop the skin with the filler.

Sounds like your filler needs to be cleaned too based on the DCEN
problems.

Richard Lamb wrote:

One tip (I think from Bud Davisson?) was to place a wooden
match stick on the weld line and just weld thru it...
Haven't tried that one - but ?


What the purpose of this?

I gas welded aluminium long before I got a Tig. Mind you, the Tig is easier
to learn, but then again I learned it after I was gas welding.

For me the trick is very low gas pressures, as low as about 1 pound of
Acetelyne and 2 pounds of oxygen. Then, heat control. Take the torch back
if you start thinking you are too hot. I used flux cored rod, but some say
separate flux is better as the rods have too much. Finally, don't try to
get a puddle started in the work, start it with some filler rod. Melt a
little blob and let it start to puddle and flow with the work, not the other
way round (same with Tig, actually, and the "ah-ha" moment for my personal
welding journey). then start to work your bead using filler rod to freeze
the pool and move on to the next quarter inch of bead. Kind of a series of
blob-melts until you get the hang of running a continuous bead. And always
heat control - don't get too hot. Think tiny, actually - tiny flame, tiny
bead, tiny movements, tiny heat. 1/16" filler rod, which is also kind of
tiny. If you try for tiny at the start, you'll stand a better chance of
getting normal, which with gas welding is a lot bigger than Tig beads can
be.

It works. I found 1/8" thick sheet the best to learn on. .050" is doable,
thinner than that takes real skill.

Brian



"Brent Philion" wrote in message
...
My single biggest reason for OA welding aluminum is the "bird in the hand"
theory. I have an OA setup basically used for heating and occasionally
cutting and a DC tig setup. Putting 100-200 to touch up the OA kit is a
lot more affordable than putting in 1-2 thousand for a replacement tig
welder with the 2000 dollar tig welder MAYBE meeting my portability needs.
I'm about 50/50 right now with me needing to get myself or the welder near
the work or the work being able to come to me

Until I swap out my Miller XMT for a dedicated AC/DC TIG machine i'm sol
for trying to tig Al on DC (I tried anyhow despite understanding why it
doesnt work and it took me into the corner and beat me and made it crystal
clear why and how AC tig works)

your Descriptions though dont really sound any different from What it does
on TIG when i had access to an AC/DC machine.

Perhaps i should ask it this way how close is it to tig without the pedal
control? I know i needed a Lot of practice to do Al in tig when i was
learning but i saw the same conditions I think.



David Billington wrote:
Sounds about what I would have said. I found there is a subtle change in
the surface of the aluminium before it drops on the floor, I learned to
recognise this and all went fine. I have never used anything other than
standard OA welding googles for Al and never had an issue with being able
to see what I was doing clearly. People mention using special lenses to
cut the flare from the glowing flux but I have never experienced this. I
have never welded Al with OA extensively and these days would typically
use TIG unless I had a benefit from using OA, typically it leaves a more
ductile weld which may be beneficial if you are doing panel work.

Buy_Sell wrote:

I gas weld aluminum. I use my Henrob torch for this but any gas torch
will do. The trick is to keep your gas pressures set low. If you need
more heat then change to a larger tip but keep the oxy and acetylene
pressures no higher than 4 psi. The other thing that you will need is
some flux for your aluminum rods and a good set of special goggles for
viewing the weld properly. A few years back everyone was using these
cobalt blue goggles but they weren't that good for your eyes. I use
goggles that have a gold reflective surface on them. I picked them up
at the welding shop and they work really good. Welding aluminum is a
bit tricky because the color doesn't change when the metal heats up
like steel does. Aluminum is a bit like plastic, one minute its there
and then all of a sudden the floor drops out and you have a big hole.
The trick is to look for when a skin appears to form on the surface and
then push your filler rod in and a way you go. Without the special
goggles, you won't be able to see the skin effect. Practice on lots of
scrap stuff first before getting into some more serious work. You'll
get the hang of it in no time.

----------------------------------
Brent Philion Jan 22, 12:08 am

With the lack of an AC tig machine and an AC inverter appearing to not
be in the cards in the near future i"m looking at using Oxy/Acetylene
to
do the al Welding due to the availability of an OA rig. Mainly i used
it
for cuttingbut thats not to say its impractical for welding. If i
remember right OA has been used for Al welding for a long time
specifically in the aviation industry.

Compared to TIG how hard is OA welding of aluminum and are there any
special types of requirements for doing it? The only OA welding i would
be doing would be on Al and the rest of the time it would be used for
heat/cutting

I already have an OA torch (Cheap Harris style kit) but stumbled across
a real Victor 100 Handle Might i be better off getting a fresh welding
tip for the victor 100? than the giant beast of this harris one?

I will likely never weld larger than 1/4" with most work being smaller
than that (1/8" to 1/16")

Brent Philion wrote:
With the lack of an AC tig machine and an AC inverter appearing to not
be in the cards in the near future i"m looking at using Oxy/Acetylene to
do the al Welding due to the availability of an OA rig. Mainly i used it
for cuttingbut thats not to say its impractical for welding. If i
remember right OA has been used for Al welding for a long time
specifically in the aviation industry.

Compared to TIG how hard is OA welding of aluminum and are there any
special types of requirements for doing it? The only OA welding i would
be doing would be on Al and the rest of the time it would be used for
heat/cutting

I already have an OA torch (Cheap Harris style kit) but stumbled across
a real Victor 100 Handle Might i be better off getting a fresh welding
tip for the victor 100? than the giant beast of this harris one?

I will likely never weld larger than 1/4" with most work being smaller
than that (1/8" to 1/16")

the Victor 100 seems to be the most like the tig torch i'n used to
compared to the big beast of the current torch. If thats the case than
has anyone used gas quick connect fittings to swap torches and are those
reliable or am i looking to blow myself up

BLowing myself or the shop/house up is EXTREMELY LOW on my list of
priorities

So from what i Gather from what everyone has said the only differences
and things needed to OA weld Aluminum on top of what i currently have are

1. ALuminum welding flux

2. Upgraded Eye protection to protect against Sodium Metal flares.

3. Possibly a better means of cleaning the AL before welding (acetone?)

4. Better ventilation/fume extraction because some of the stuff coming
off the weld will be really toxic stuff (or at least stuff best left
outside of my lungs) And stuff more Caustic than say a plain old Cigarette


For question 2 will an autodarkening Welding helmet in the OFF position
(Shade 5) cut it for getting rid of sodium flare? (I have a Miller Xli
helmet already and if it will work i'll be happy)

Otherwise my eyes and ears have served my great for my 26 years so far
and i'd like to at least have them in decent shape for 3 times the 26
theyve done. I'll accept slowly starting to fall apart at age 78 but i'd
just as soon be nice to my eyes and ears and such before then

Safety equipment to me is not a cost its an investment in the quality of
my work and in the preservation of my keester to weld again another day.

As for doing it its not that much harder than TIG and the added
difficulty does not seem to be enough to justify my running out and
buying an AC tig Capable machine to replace my XMT. the technique IS
different but its close enough that I should have minimal adjustment
pains compared to say the jump form Stick to TIG

Am i basically on the right path with the Synopsis i've came up with here?

By the way Thanks to everybody for all the info


Brent Philion
Ottawa Canada

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:41:32 -0500, Brent Philion
wrote:



2. Upgraded Eye protection to protect against Sodium Metal flares.

3. Possibly a better means of cleaning the AL before welding (acetone?)

4. Better ventilation/fume extraction because some of the stuff coming
off the weld will be really toxic stuff (or at least stuff best left
outside of my lungs) And stuff more Caustic than say a plain old Cigarette


For question 2 will an autodarkening Welding helmet in the OFF position
(Shade 5) cut it for getting rid of sodium flare? (I have a Miller Xli
helmet already and if it will work i'll be happy)

Not nearly as well. A shade 5 pretty much darkens everything. The
idea here is to block the flare without otherwise reducing visibility
much.

Sodium flare has a very narrow spectrum or band of colors around
yellow-orange, a small percentage of the total visible spectrum.
If a filter blocks those colors much more strongly than others, then
your visibility of the work and puddle is greatly improved. The
TM2000 is about a shade 5, but it completely blocks the sodium
flare. Totally, as in gone. Your first clue that you are near
welding temp is when the flux melts -- and you can clearly see it melt
and turn clear. The TM2000 can also be (and is) used for gas
welding steel including 4130, and cast iron.

I don't sell these things or get a kickback, I'm just thoroughly
impressed with how well they work. Professionals like Ron Fournier
and Kent White (the tin man) use them routinely.