I just bought a hand tapper from E-bay - local pickup, bla bla bla

here's the link to the thing I bought
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7568282128

It's nice, I cleaned it up a little, did some machining to make the
ball detent work so the shaft would stay up while I changed tap
holders, and all would be well, except for one problem - I can't
figure out how this thing was supposed to retain the tap holders.

The holders, as you can see, are hexagonal. they fit into the end of
the shaft. Inside the shaft, about 3/16 up from the end, there is a
groove. I suppose a spring goes in there? does anyone have a similar
unit so they can tell me exactly how the retainer looks?

thanks

bill
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

William B Noble (don't reply to this address) wrote:
I just bought a hand tapper from E-bay - local pickup, bla bla bla

here's the link to the thing I bought
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7568282128

It's nice, I cleaned it up a little, did some machining to make the
ball detent work so the shaft would stay up while I changed tap
holders, and all would be well, except for one problem - I can't
figure out how this thing was supposed to retain the tap holders.

The holders, as you can see, are hexagonal. they fit into the end of
the shaft. Inside the shaft, about 3/16 up from the end, there is a
groove. I suppose a spring goes in there? does anyone have a similar
unit so they can tell me exactly how the retainer looks?

thanks

bill
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

The answer is simple. Put a thin diameter o-ring in the groove and be
happy.

Enjoy

Jim Vrzal
Holiday, Fl.

I have one similar to that. I got a pack of tiny rubber bands, the kind
used to hold dental braces and put one on each tap holder. Works well
enough. My big complaint is that the pin is totally inadequate to hold a
part. The torque will twist the part out of place and break smaller taps.
I drilled and taped the base in a pattern to take clamp studs.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"William B Noble (don't reply to this address)" wrote
in message ...
I just bought a hand tapper from E-bay - local pickup, bla bla bla

here's the link to the thing I bought
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7568282128

It's nice, I cleaned it up a little, did some machining to make the
ball detent work so the shaft would stay up while I changed tap
holders, and all would be well, except for one problem - I can't
figure out how this thing was supposed to retain the tap holders.

The holders, as you can see, are hexagonal. they fit into the end of
the shaft. Inside the shaft, about 3/16 up from the end, there is a
groove. I suppose a spring goes in there? does anyone have a similar
unit so they can tell me exactly how the retainer looks?

thanks

bill
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

An alternative to rubber bands, o-rings and music-wire snap rings would
be to find a small rare-earth magnet. Dud IDE drives usually have a
very small one for parking the heads in addition to the big one used
for head movement. Woodworker's suppliers have them in various sizes
now for not too exorbitant a price. I've got a number I use in small
sockets for holding nuts and screws for driving in odd locations on
vehicles, the ones I use in the 6mm socket hold at least a pound. I've
also seen them in the hardware store on the backs of novelty
refrigerator magnets if you can't fine one anywhere else. These don't
usually have as good a pull as the ones from the woodworker's store but
might be more readily available.
Downside to using a magnet is that your taps might get magnetized,
easily fixed with a demagnetizer, though. I usually end up
demagnetizing mine before use anyway, somehow they get slightly
magnetized just sitting in the drawer.

Stan

I have one of these, an older model made by Dahlstrom which apparently
was bought by Cedarburg. Mine has the groove also and there is what
appears to be a springy steel wire in it, but since the groove is hex
shaped, the wire only shows at the corners of the hex. There are also
flat springy "fingers" at the upper end of the recess that probably
help retain the tap holders. They do a good job too, I had to put a
short coil spring in the recess to make the tap holders easier to
remove if the little setscrew that holds the tap comes loose and the
holder gets trapped in there flush with the end of the opening. Looks
like even with shipping you got a good deal on yours, I paid $10 for
mine at a local junkyard but a set of tap holders cost over $120 from
Cedarburg.

Mike

thanks - I picked mine up locally, so there was no shipping.

Just to be sure I understand, the springy steel wire just sits in the
groove and it's round - no special protrusions or anything? (I can
make that easily enough) - any idea of the aprox diameter?

and, can you offer some more details on the "fingers" - mine doesn't
have anyting inside the bore that holds the tap holders.

I did consider a magnet, but as others pointed out, there is the
magnetism problem. As an alternative, I can add a spring loaded ball,
but I'd rather do it the way the manufacturer intended.

thanks again

bill

On 9 Dec 2005 14:34:07 -0800, "KyMike" wrote:

I have one of these, an older model made by Dahlstrom which apparently
was bought by Cedarburg. Mine has the groove also and there is what
appears to be a springy steel wire in it, but since the groove is hex
shaped, the wire only shows at the corners of the hex. There are also
flat springy "fingers" at the upper end of the recess that probably
help retain the tap holders. They do a good job too, I had to put a
short coil spring in the recess to make the tap holders easier to
remove if the little setscrew that holds the tap comes loose and the
holder gets trapped in there flush with the end of the opening. Looks
like even with shipping you got a good deal on yours, I paid $10 for
mine at a local junkyard but a set of tap holders cost over $120 from
Cedarburg.

Mike
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

A plain round wire, yes, and it protrudes out over the corners of the
hex very slightly. As far as I can tell it is about 1/16" diameter.
The fingers resemble 6 flat wheel spokes which overlap each other at
the center of the hex-shaped hole. If you have the ram upside down and
are looking into the end of it you will see these spokes at the bottom
end of the hole. After taking a closer look, they don't seem to have
any springiness to them at all and apparently are there only to block
the upper end of the hole so that the tap holders won't go in too far.
I may be able to get a picture of the hole if it will help, though my
digital camera is not that good with extreme closeups.

Mike

All this talk about holding taps in hand tappers got me to go look once again at
my $79 Enco special (a fine item to use free shipping on, it being both over $50
and under 125 pounds). The first one that showed up promptly went back, don't
remember what was wrong, something egregious. Enco was cool about it, though,
had another one here quickly. It's almost perfect, but it has never retained the
tap holders in the spindle properly. Anyway, the fix turned out to be trivial.
Mine is a round flat spring steel clip holding in a ball which is supposed to
engage a detent milled in the tap holders, but the clip was just too loose. I
removed it and did a little judicious mashing in the bench vise, then (with some
difficulty) reassembled it. MUCH tighter, and it now works correctly.

These little hand tappers are absolutely the shiznits on anything you can fit in
there.

GWE

KyMike wrote:
A plain round wire, yes, and it protrudes out over the corners of the
hex very slightly. As far as I can tell it is about 1/16" diameter.
The fingers resemble 6 flat wheel spokes which overlap each other at
the center of the hex-shaped hole. If you have the ram upside down and
are looking into the end of it you will see these spokes at the bottom
end of the hole. After taking a closer look, they don't seem to have
any springiness to them at all and apparently are there only to block
the upper end of the hole so that the tap holders won't go in too far.
I may be able to get a picture of the hole if it will help, though my
digital camera is not that good with extreme closeups.

Mike

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 03:27:03 +0000, "William B Noble (don't reply to
this address)" wrote:

I just bought a hand tapper from E-bay - local pickup, bla bla bla
It's nice, I cleaned it up a little, did some machining to make the
ball detent work so the shaft would stay up while I changed tap
holders, and all would be well, except for one problem - I can't
figure out how this thing was supposed to retain the tap holders.

The holders, as you can see, are hexagonal. they fit into the end of
the shaft. Inside the shaft, about 3/16 up from the end, there is a
groove. I suppose a spring goes in there? does anyone have a similar
unit so they can tell me exactly how the retainer looks?

thanks

bill

I always wanted one of those but never came across one. I did find a
small 1/2" drill press with a dead motor for $2. Made a crank out of
flat iron and screwed it on top of the pulley. Works good up to 3/8".
Haven't tried anything larger.

KyMike wrote:

A plain round wire, yes, and it protrudes out over the corners of the
hex very slightly. As far as I can tell it is about 1/16" diameter.
The fingers resemble 6 flat wheel spokes which overlap each other at
the center of the hex-shaped hole. If you have the ram upside down and
are looking into the end of it you will see these spokes at the bottom
end of the hole. After taking a closer look, they don't seem to have
any springiness to them at all and apparently are there only to block
the upper end of the hole so that the tap holders won't go in too far.
I may be able to get a picture of the hole if it will help, though my
digital camera is not that good with extreme closeups.

Mike

Those "fingers" are probably just the chips from the broaching operation.
...lew...

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 07:41:28 +0000, "William B Noble (don't reply to
this address)" wrote:

thanks - I picked mine up locally, so there was no shipping.

Just to be sure I understand, the springy steel wire just sits in the
groove and it's round - no special protrusions or anything? (I can
make that easily enough) - any idea of the aprox diameter?

and, can you offer some more details on the "fingers" - mine doesn't
have anyting inside the bore that holds the tap holders.

I did consider a magnet, but as others pointed out, there is the
magnetism problem. As an alternative, I can add a spring loaded ball,
but I'd rather do it the way the manufacturer intended.

thanks again

bill


Did you deal with Howard or Dana? I do a fair amount of business in
there for my clients..didnt know they were on Ebay yet. Got my Airco
Squarewave 300 as commission for selling some machines for them.
The Harrison tool and cutter grinder was outback collecting rust..next
time you go in...wander out to the back 40 and check under the
rust..some interesting stuff back there....

Personally..Id use a magnet.. Or simply drill and tap for a short
setscrew. Shrug.

Ive got a Lassey with the built in "vise" but have used that one..and
as another poster said..the stock pin locations really dont cut it.
1/4" pins on 1" centers is good for small stuff. Unless you have a
small machinists vise....

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:03:44 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I dealt with Howard - we had a nice chat about high performance cars -
his place is, he says, about 300 machines short of normal", but it
sure is a nice clean place compared to many I have visited.


Did you deal with Howard or Dana? I do a fair amount of business in
there for my clients..didnt know they were on Ebay yet. Got my Airco
Squarewave 300 as commission for selling some machines for them.
The Harrison tool and cutter grinder was outback collecting rust..next
time you go in...wander out to the back 40 and check under the
rust..some interesting stuff back there....

Personally..Id use a magnet.. Or simply drill and tap for a short
setscrew. Shrug.

Ive got a Lassey with the built in "vise" but have used that one..and
as another poster said..the stock pin locations really dont cut it.
1/4" pins on 1" centers is good for small stuff. Unless you have a
small machinists vise....

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:45:00 +0000, "William B Noble (don't reply to
this address)" wrote:

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:03:44 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

I dealt with Howard - we had a nice chat about high performance cars -
his place is, he says, about 300 machines short of normal", but it
sure is a nice clean place compared to many I have visited.


Howard sorta reminds me of Johnny Carson in his used car salesman
schtick. Howard is of course more reserved....

Nice guy all and all. Dana is a young guy..inherited the business
(and Howard) from his father. Howard isnt much on price
crunching..Dana is the guy to talk to you if you want a down and dirty
price. Dont tell Howard I said this however.....

G

Gunner




Did you deal with Howard or Dana? I do a fair amount of business in
there for my clients..didnt know they were on Ebay yet. Got my Airco
Squarewave 300 as commission for selling some machines for them.
The Harrison tool and cutter grinder was outback collecting rust..next
time you go in...wander out to the back 40 and check under the
rust..some interesting stuff back there....

Personally..Id use a magnet.. Or simply drill and tap for a short
setscrew. Shrug.

Ive got a Lassey with the built in "vise" but have used that one..and
as another poster said..the stock pin locations really dont cut it.
1/4" pins on 1" centers is good for small stuff. Unless you have a
small machinists vise....

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

ok, I fixed it, but a "plain" round wire didn't do the trick - if it
was thick enough to engage the corners, it prevented the holders from
going in - so, I used a very thin spring steel wire (maybe .030 or so)
and made it "wavy" with a small pair of needle nosed pliers, then put
it into the internal grove - the wire was thin enough to let the
corners of the holders pass, but the waves cause enough friction that
the holders are now properly retained.

thanks
bill

On 10 Dec 2005 16:00:45 -0800, "KyMike" wrote:

A plain round wire, yes, and it protrudes out over the corners of the
hex very slightly. As far as I can tell it is about 1/16" diameter.
The fingers resemble 6 flat wheel spokes which overlap each other at
the center of the hex-shaped hole. If you have the ram upside down and
are looking into the end of it you will see these spokes at the bottom
end of the hole. After taking a closer look, they don't seem to have
any springiness to them at all and apparently are there only to block
the upper end of the hole so that the tap holders won't go in too far.
I may be able to get a picture of the hole if it will help, though my
digital camera is not that good with extreme closeups.

Mike
Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com