I need business insurance for a one-man steel fabrication business out of my
home. Contractor's insurance companies tell me they only deal with bonded
contractors i.e. those who have state licenses. Regular insurance companies tell
me they don't deal with businesses even those run out of a home.

If you live in the US and have a small business which includes welding, and you
have business insurance with a national company, would you mind either posting
the name of the company or giving me a heads-up as to the right way to look?

Thanks

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

I don't think it is available - I gave up, myself. No health insurance
either...

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I need business insurance for a one-man steel fabrication business out of
my home. Contractor's insurance companies tell me they only deal with
bonded contractors i.e. those who have state licenses. Regular insurance
companies tell me they don't deal with businesses even those run out of a
home.

If you live in the US and have a small business which includes welding,
and you have business insurance with a national company, would you mind
either posting the name of the company or giving me a heads-up as to the
right way to look?

Thanks

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

Grant Erwin wrote:

I need business insurance for a one-man steel fabrication business out
of my home. Contractor's insurance companies tell me they only deal with
bonded contractors i.e. those who have state licenses. Regular insurance
companies tell me they don't deal with businesses even those run out of
a home.

If you live in the US and have a small business which includes welding,
and you have business insurance with a national company, would you mind
either posting the name of the company or giving me a heads-up as to the
right way to look?

Thanks

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington

I run a software/electronics consulting business out of my home.
Because what I do sounds scary (apparently) and is out of the common way
there weren't many companies willing to take me on. I went to my local
insurance agent who did _way_ more work than he made in commission to
dig up an insurance company that would take me on.

I just looked at the policy -- when I got the thing, and when I renew,
it's through some insurance broker, but the actual policy is through
Lloyd's of London (gor blimy!).

It may be worth your while to go to your local independent insurance
agent to see what he can dig up. If you just can't get anywhere with
your locals send me email and I'll send you the name of mine. I'm not
sure that he's licensed to work in Washington (I'm in Oregon), but he
may know of someone up there, or be in a generous mood to give free advise.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

I agree with TIM.

You need to find an Insurance Broker. They will shop around for someone
willing to insure you.

I have business insurance through American Family insurance BUT they
are not willing to cover much manufacturing business. The product
liability is apparently just too big a risk.

It will be slightly easier if you hold any certifications. Such as
welding. It seems that if the insurance company can say " but he was
certified by the state" they consider it a lower risk.

You could also try professional associations or if you are over 50
AARP.

In article ,
says...
I need business insurance for a one-man steel fabrication business out of my
home. Contractor's insurance companies tell me they only deal with bonded
contractors i.e. those who have state licenses. Regular insurance companies tell
me they don't deal with businesses even those run out of a home.

If you live in the US and have a small business which includes welding, and you
have business insurance with a national company, would you mind either posting
the name of the company or giving me a heads-up as to the right way to look?


My insurance is with Peerless Insurance. As someone else
mentioned, you probably won't have much luck with small
insurance agencies that write mostly auto and home
policies. Look for a larger company that has agents on
staff that do nothing but write business policies. I don't
know if it's just coincidence, but both the agents I've
used over the last fifteen years or so have been with
companies that also offer financial services to businesses.

This is the agecy I'm with currently, maybe this will give
you an idea of the sort of broker you should be looking
for...

http://www.nortonne.com/products/

I design and build special manufacturing machinery, the
business is housed in a separate building on the same
property as my home. Coverage includes fire, theft and
liability on the buildings and contents, insurance on work
in progress and customer's property on my premises or in
transit, liability for damage I do onsite at a customer's
facility, loss of income due to various events, and a few
odds and ends like sign coverage that I have no use for,
but are part of the standard policy. About $1200/year.

Ned Simmons

Ned Simmons wrote:

In article ,
says...
I need business insurance for a one-man steel fabrication business out of my
home. Contractor's insurance companies tell me they only deal with bonded
contractors i.e. those who have state licenses. Regular insurance companies tell
me they don't deal with businesses even those run out of a home.

If you live in the US and have a small business which includes welding, and you
have business insurance with a national company, would you mind either posting
the name of the company or giving me a heads-up as to the right way to look?


My insurance is with Peerless Insurance. As someone else
mentioned, you probably won't have much luck with small
insurance agencies that write mostly auto and home
policies. Look for a larger company that has agents on
staff that do nothing but write business policies. I don't
know if it's just coincidence, but both the agents I've
used over the last fifteen years or so have been with
companies that also offer financial services to businesses.

This is the agecy I'm with currently, maybe this will give
you an idea of the sort of broker you should be looking
for...

http://www.nortonne.com/products/

I design and build special manufacturing machinery, the
business is housed in a separate building on the same
property as my home. Coverage includes fire, theft and
liability on the buildings and contents, insurance on work
in progress and customer's property on my premises or in
transit, liability for damage I do onsite at a customer's
facility, loss of income due to various events, and a few
odds and ends like sign coverage that I have no use for,
but are part of the standard policy. About $1200/year.

Ned Simmons

Peerless and Sentry are two companys that insure small businesses.

John

Hi, Grant.
Perhaps the reason you can't find the insurance you want is telling you
something. You need to listen. What is the reason you think you need
insurance?

Unless you protect your personal assets by forming an LLC or Sub-S
corporation and working for that corporation, no amount of insurance
will protect your personal assets from liability. The problem is not
working out of your home. You need to spend a little money and talk to
a business attorney, a CPA, and then an insurance agent that deals in
business insurance.

You can still work out of your home, doing welding, etc. but the
corporation will need to rent the space and tools from you. When you
work, you represent the corporation, not "Grant Irwin".

I am just a small business owner, not an attorney or CPA or business
consultant. The costs you think you are avoiding by not consulting them
will not save you anything in the long run. They are part of the
overhead that your customers will have to pay.

Good luck with your venture.

Paul in Redmond, OR

Grant.
After writing the above, I went to the mill/drill to complete the
repair of an aluminum block that had almost become part of a roof
bracket to hold a mast for a new ham radio antenna I am putting up.
Yesterday while tapping the very last hole, 3/8X16, the tap broke. I
worked most of the rest of the day milling down close to the tap, then
1/8" on each side, finally breaking out the remaining aluminum. The tap
came out easily, then! I milled a 1/2" slot for a patch and proceded to
epoxy in a piece of 1/2" aluminum. This morning I sawed off the excess
patch and milled down the two faces. Next I drilled and tapped, using
the mill/drill to start the tap. All easily done, again. I knew I
should not have started the first tapping by hand! And I paid for it.

Anyway, as I was working, I remembered one more thing for you to
examine before commiting to a home based business. If you have a
mortgage on your property, read over, again, the agreement you signed.
Most mortgages require you to maintain the property so it can easily be
sold if you default on the loan. I am not sure what this might include,
but your property may be subject to inspection at anytime. Any you
would be forced to clean it up to their satisfaction. Usually the
inspections occur when your mortgage is being sold.

Best regards, Paul

Ned Simmons wrote:
I design and build special manufacturing machinery, the
business is housed in a separate building on the same
property as my home. Coverage includes fire, theft and
liability on the buildings and contents, insurance on work
in progress and customer's property on my premises or in
transit, liability for damage I do onsite at a customer's
facility, loss of income due to various events, and a few
odds and ends like sign coverage that I have no use for,
but are part of the standard policy. About $1200/year.
WOW! That's INCREDIBLE! I tried to just get fire and theft
insurance on my machines and tooling, and they started
out saying it would cost $950, I thought that was high, but
sent them the money. Then, they came back 2 weeks later and
said they needed another $900, and I balked. I've got a
~ $200,000 house here insured for all perils except flood,
but incuding earthquake, for about $1000/year. (Flood is
not likely on the side of a hill 150' above the nearest water,
and 300+' above a nearby river. If we get flooded, the
entire central US is under water.)

Anyway, I can insure the whole $200K property plus all normal
homeowner contents for $1000, but they want $1800 to insure
$45 grand of tools? What the hell is going on? It also took
me months to get my $950 deposit back, which I wasn't too
happy about.

I was specifically NOT going for any liability insurance,
I never do work on customer's property or materials,
and the shop is in the basement of my house, so the structure
is ALREADY covered. So, your policy covers a LOT more
than what I was asking for.

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:

I design and build special manufacturing machinery, the business is
housed in a separate building on the same property as my home.
Coverage includes fire, theft and liability on the buildings and
contents, insurance on work in progress and customer's property on my
premises or in transit, liability for damage I do onsite at a
customer's facility, loss of income due to various events, and a few
odds and ends like sign coverage that I have no use for, but are part
of the standard policy. About $1200/year.

WOW! That's INCREDIBLE! I tried to just get fire and theft
insurance on my machines and tooling, and they started
out saying it would cost $950, I thought that was high, but
sent them the money. Then, they came back 2 weeks later and
said they needed another $900, and I balked. I've got a
~ $200,000 house here insured for all perils except flood,
but incuding earthquake, for about $1000/year. (Flood is
not likely on the side of a hill 150' above the nearest water,
and 300+' above a nearby river. If we get flooded, the
entire central US is under water.)

Anyway, I can insure the whole $200K property plus all normal
homeowner contents for $1000, but they want $1800 to insure
$45 grand of tools? What the hell is going on? It also took
me months to get my $950 deposit back, which I wasn't too
happy about.

I was specifically NOT going for any liability insurance,
I never do work on customer's property or materials,
and the shop is in the basement of my house, so the structure
is ALREADY covered. So, your policy covers a LOT more
than what I was asking for.

Welcome to the wonderful world of insurance
quotes. One thing that might make a huge
difference is a history of no claims. I
have a decent sized small business selling
a product with liability potential. My insurance
is quite reasonable. I presume part of the
reason for that is 10 years of operation without
any sort of claim.

New small manufacturing businesses seem to
have an almost impossible time getting liability
insurance.

Jon Elson wrote:

Anyway, I can insure the whole $200K property plus all normal
homeowner contents for $1000, but they want $1800 to insure
$45 grand of tools? What the hell is going on? It also took
me months to get my $950 deposit back, which I wasn't too
happy about.

I was specifically NOT going for any liability insurance,
I never do work on customer's property or materials,
and the shop is in the basement of my house, so the structure
is ALREADY covered. So, your policy covers a LOT more
than what I was asking for.

Jon



Yes, business insurance premiums are generally a rip-off, and for most
one-man shops they're a total mismatch in terms of needed coverage. Ask
your current home insurance company if you can purchase a rider to cover
business property for a home office. I pay $75 a year for a policy rider
that covers $50K of business equipment on my property and $5K when
traveling. I stipulated there would be no regular customer visits to my
office at home. Then they asked me for a list of the items and I
truthfully showed machine tools, cameras, computers, etc. They accepted
my list with no questions and added the rider to the policy.

Jim Stewart wrote:


Welcome to the wonderful world of insurance
quotes. One thing that might make a huge
difference is a history of no claims. I
have a decent sized small business selling
a product with liability potential. My insurance
is quite reasonable. I presume part of the
reason for that is 10 years of operation without
any sort of claim.

New small manufacturing businesses seem to
have an almost impossible time getting liability
insurance.

Hmm, interesting. I've never had a homeowner's insurance

claim, and have had my business in my home for 19 years, now.
But, since I don't have any insurance on the business, I guess
that counts as no history.

Jon

Tim Killian wrote:

Jon Elson wrote:

Anyway, I can insure the whole $200K property plus all normal
homeowner contents for $1000, but they want $1800 to insure
$45 grand of tools? What the hell is going on? It also took
me months to get my $950 deposit back, which I wasn't too
happy about.

I was specifically NOT going for any liability insurance,
I never do work on customer's property or materials,
and the shop is in the basement of my house, so the structure
is ALREADY covered. So, your policy covers a LOT more
than what I was asking for.

Jon



Yes, business insurance premiums are generally a rip-off, and for most
one-man shops they're a total mismatch in terms of needed coverage.
Ask your current home insurance company if you can purchase a rider to
cover business property for a home office. I pay $75 a year for a
policy rider that covers $50K of business equipment on my property and
$5K when traveling. I stipulated there would be no regular customer
visits to my office at home. Then they asked me for a list of the
items and I truthfully showed machine tools, cameras, computers, etc.
They accepted my list with no questions and added the rider to the
policy.

I tried that. Maybe my agent/broker didn't understand what I was asking
for,
but she told me that it was impossible to put a business rider on a
homeowner's
policy, except in the special case of something like having a company laptop
in your home when there's a fire. That's already covered. But, this
is, to a
large extent, manufacturing equipment that I wanted coverage on. That is
a whole different ball game. In fact, there was a thread about this
maybe a year
ago, where several people said that merely having manufacturing equipment
or commercial stock in your home made the homeowner's policy null and void!

Jon

wrote:

Hi, Grant.
Perhaps the reason you can't find the insurance you want is telling you
something. You need to listen. What is the reason you think you need
insurance?

Unless you protect your personal assets by forming an LLC or Sub-S
corporation and working for that corporation, no amount of insurance
will protect your personal assets from liability. The problem is not
working out of your home. You need to spend a little money and talk to
a business attorney, a CPA, and then an insurance agent that deals in
business insurance.


I taslked to my lawyer about this when I set up my company 19 years
ago. We went over the benefits of incorporating, and he said that in the
special case where the entire corporation is really *ME*, the corporation
really gives no protection. If somebody sues the corporation because
he got hurt, had a fire, whatever stupid excuse he can come up with,
he CAN collect my property. This stuff very likely varies from state to
state, I'm in MO. The advice he gave me was tailored to the laws here.



Jon

liability coverage can be either personal liability, such as someone
being injured on your property, and PRODUCT liability, which covers you
if a person using your product is injured.

If you weld a bracket to hold something on a trailer for example and
the weld breaks for whatever reason you could be sued for resulting
damages.

You can try to limit some of your liabilities with a contract but you
need legal advice for your specific state.

Insurance costs vary considerably from region to region. Insuring tools
is often high cost because of the risk of theft.

Ask about fairly high deductables on specific items.

In article ,
says...


Anyway, I can insure the whole $200K property plus all normal
homeowner contents for $1000, but they want $1800 to insure
$45 grand of tools? What the hell is going on? It also took
me months to get my $950 deposit back, which I wasn't too
happy about.

I don't know what correlation there is between commercial
and residential insurance rates by region, but our
homeowner's policy, covering a value similar to yours, is
$302/year. This is in a small town in coastal Maine.

Ned Simmons

Jon Elson wrote:

wrote:

Hi, Grant.
Perhaps the reason you can't find the insurance you want is telling you
something. You need to listen. What is the reason you think you need
insurance?

Unless you protect your personal assets by forming an LLC or Sub-S
corporation and working for that corporation, no amount of insurance
will protect your personal assets from liability. The problem is not
working out of your home. You need to spend a little money and talk to
a business attorney, a CPA, and then an insurance agent that deals in
business insurance.


I taslked to my lawyer about this when I set up my company 19 years
ago. We went over the benefits of incorporating, and he said that in the
special case where the entire corporation is really *ME*, the corporation
really gives no protection. If somebody sues the corporation because
he got hurt, had a fire, whatever stupid excuse he can come up with,
he CAN collect my property. This stuff very likely varies from state to
state, I'm in MO. The advice he gave me was tailored to the laws here.



Jon

The only real insurance is to have such a mortgage on your place and
liens against you that any lawyer would know that there was no money to
be had and would then throw the client out of his office.


Insurance is a lawyer magnet.
John

Ned Simmons wrote:
In article ,
says...


Anyway, I can insure the whole $200K property plus all normal
homeowner contents for $1000, but they want $1800 to insure
$45 grand of tools? What the hell is going on? It also took
me months to get my $950 deposit back, which I wasn't too
happy about.


I don't know what correlation there is between commercial
and residential insurance rates by region, but our
homeowner's policy, covering a value similar to yours, is
$302/year. This is in a small town in coastal Maine.
I guess there isn't much earthquake risk in ME. There is a
significant earthquake risk in MO and states immediately
south, due to the New madrid fault system. It last let go
in 1811-1812, and rang bells in Boston. Dire predictions
of a similar-sized quake today would level everything from
Chicago to Memphis.

So, that is a serious component of the total premium.

Jon

Maine you say ?

I seem to recall the tallest mountain in the lower 48 is there or is that
East of the Mississippi.

Long Island was a massive mountain range - taller than the alps - sunk.
It and the sinking mountain range that is the eastern backbone of the US
is sinking all of the time. It is far from the maximum height it once was.

So once an earth quake zone always one. It is just a matter of time and size.

I used to live on the Pacific Plate and work on the North American Plate.
Lived through 'the big one' some years ago.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Jon Elson wrote:
Ned Simmons wrote:

In article ,
says...


Anyway, I can insure the whole $200K property plus all normal
homeowner contents for $1000, but they want $1800 to insure
$45 grand of tools? What the hell is going on? It also took
me months to get my $950 deposit back, which I wasn't too
happy about.



I don't know what correlation there is between commercial and
residential insurance rates by region, but our homeowner's policy,
covering a value similar to yours, is $302/year. This is in a small
town in coastal Maine.

I guess there isn't much earthquake risk in ME. There is a
significant earthquake risk in MO and states immediately
south, due to the New madrid fault system. It last let go
in 1811-1812, and rang bells in Boston. Dire predictions
of a similar-sized quake today would level everything from
Chicago to Memphis.

So, that is a serious component of the total premium.

Jon


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On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:09:01 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Martin H. Eastburn" quickly quoth:

Maine you say ?

I seem to recall the tallest mountain in the lower 48 is there or is that
East of the Mississippi.

McKinley (AK, not 48) is the tallest in the USA, followed by my old
state (CA) peak. Mt. Whitney is the tallest in the contiguous states.
I see no peaks on this list which are in Maine.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001798.html

Most of the peaks I've been on were about 6,000 feet, but I did some
hiking on the crest of Sandia Peak above Albuquerque, NM. Happily, the
10,400' altitude didn't seem to affect me. (I was as out of breath
there as I was hiking a 3k' mountain. http://www.sandiapeak.com/


So once an earth quake zone always one. It is just a matter of time and size.

Truth!


I used to live on the Pacific Plate and work on the North American Plate.
Lived through 'the big one' some years ago.

Which "big one" was that, Martin? San Fran 1906? chortle
Mammoth Lakes, Loma Prieta, Ridgecrest, Northridge?


-----------------------------------------------------------
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The mountain in Maine is a killer - there is a station on top that can only
be reached by climbing. Choppers can't get there. The winds are normally
60 mph or so and often bad weather. Real nasty top, wonder snow...
I'm sure it was Maine.

I said lower 48 I know that McKinley is the Bull of the woods. Really Mona Loa is.
But that is another story.

The big one - naturally I'm not 99 so it was "Loma Prieta" . Engineman1 and I
lived within 5 miles of it and we are both still kicking. Many are not.
I was on the flight back from Japan when Wittier fell in.
The Stew crew was based there - It was a tense flight as we heard of the quake
but no results - just at takeoff.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:09:01 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Martin H. Eastburn" quickly quoth:


Maine you say ?

I seem to recall the tallest mountain in the lower 48 is there or is that
East of the Mississippi.


McKinley (AK, not 48) is the tallest in the USA, followed by my old
state (CA) peak. Mt. Whitney is the tallest in the contiguous states.
I see no peaks on this list which are in Maine.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001798.html

Most of the peaks I've been on were about 6,000 feet, but I did some
hiking on the crest of Sandia Peak above Albuquerque, NM. Happily, the
10,400' altitude didn't seem to affect me. (I was as out of breath
there as I was hiking a 3k' mountain. http://www.sandiapeak.com/



So once an earth quake zone always one. It is just a matter of time and size.


Truth!



I used to live on the Pacific Plate and work on the North American Plate.
Lived through 'the big one' some years ago.


Which "big one" was that, Martin? San Fran 1906? chortle
Mammoth Lakes, Loma Prieta, Ridgecrest, Northridge?


-----------------------------------------------------------
-- This post conscientiously crafted from 100% Recycled Pixels --
http://diversify.com Websites: PHP Programming, MySQL databases
================================================== ================

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In article ,
says...
The mountain in Maine is a killer - there is a station on top that can only
be reached by climbing. Choppers can't get there. The winds are normally
60 mph or so and often bad weather. Real nasty top, wonder snow...
I'm sure it was Maine.


Sounds like you're thinking of Mt Washington in NH. The
summit has a reputation for having some of the worst
weather in the world. There's a weather research station up
there that holds the record for the highest sustained wind
speed ever recorded, and the weather is highly
unpredictable.

A friend and I were relaxing after climbing to the summit
on a beautiful August afternoon - next thing we knew the
temperature dropped, the wind started blowing, then sleet,
then snow. We had ditched our packs with warm clothes and
tent a few miles from the summit and while we were sitting
contemplating a nasty hike down the sun came out again and
the temp was back into the 60s, all within a matter of 30
minutes or so.

But you can also drive to the summit or take a very cool
ride on the cog railway.

http://www.thecog.com/

Ned Simmons