I had a man and crew scheduled to come today and cut down a tree. All they
had to do was show up, do the work, and get ca$h.

They didn't show up. I called, and he said he was doing bookkeeping, but he
would try to get there this afternoon. Never showed up.

Everyone wants a job, and no one wants to work.

Sheesh.

Steve

SteveB wrote:

I had a man and crew scheduled to come today and cut down a tree. All they
had to do was show up, do the work, and get ca$h.

They didn't show up. I called, and he said he was doing bookkeeping, but he
would try to get there this afternoon. Never showed up.

Everyone wants a job, and no one wants to work.

That last is quite a stretchful extrapolation from one data point. I hear your
frustration but your statistics aren't rigorous, notardly.

GWE

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:

I had a man and crew scheduled to come today and cut down a tree. All
they
had to do was show up, do the work, and get ca$h.

They didn't show up. I called, and he said he was doing bookkeeping, but
he
would try to get there this afternoon. Never showed up.

Everyone wants a job, and no one wants to work.

That last is quite a stretchful extrapolation from one data point. I hear
your frustration but your statistics aren't rigorous, notardly.

GWE

I lean toward drama.

Steve ;-)

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:46:13 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I had a man and crew scheduled to come today and cut down a tree. All they
had to do was show up, do the work, and get ca$h.

They didn't show up. I called, and he said he was doing bookkeeping, but he
would try to get there this afternoon. Never showed up.

Everyone wants a job, and no one wants to work.

Sheesh.

Steve



Ooo Ooo , I know this one, waving my raised hand. Now, can I tone it
down?

See, they have the licence and a bunch of crews and will say YES to
all jobs and never sees the job and their crews can't keep up, just
wait long enough or arrange someone else to do it.

Thought ya bought a chain saw???

"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:46:13 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I had a man and crew scheduled to come today and cut down a tree. All
they
had to do was show up, do the work, and get ca$h.

They didn't show up. I called, and he said he was doing bookkeeping, but
he
would try to get there this afternoon. Never showed up.

Everyone wants a job, and no one wants to work.

Sheesh.

Steve



Ooo Ooo , I know this one, waving my raised hand. Now, can I tone it
down?

See, they have the licence and a bunch of crews and will say YES to
all jobs and never sees the job and their crews can't keep up, just
wait long enough or arrange someone else to do it.

Thought ya bought a chain saw???


Ayyyup. It was waiting here in Vegas upon my return today. Nice new,
shiny, got an awesome hard hat with ear protection and face mask.

Going up next weekend with a friend to do it.

Steve

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 19:59:15 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:46:13 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I had a man and crew scheduled to come today and cut down a tree. All
they
had to do was show up, do the work, and get ca$h.

They didn't show up. I called, and he said he was doing bookkeeping, but
he
would try to get there this afternoon. Never showed up.

Everyone wants a job, and no one wants to work.

Sheesh.

Steve



Ooo Ooo , I know this one, waving my raised hand. Now, can I tone it
down?

See, they have the licence and a bunch of crews and will say YES to
all jobs and never sees the job and their crews can't keep up, just
wait long enough or arrange someone else to do it.

Thought ya bought a chain saw???


Ayyyup. It was waiting here in Vegas upon my return today. Nice new,
shiny, got an awesome hard hat with ear protection and face mask.

Going up next weekend with a friend to do it.

Steve


Need a tree to practice on? Only thing is that I'm too busy to push
my other truck out of the way at the moment. Easy dead tree that I
could fell myself in the right direction and have never run a chain
saw. Been a helper for cutting sticks in deep snow with a homicidal
step father and kinda got the idea down.

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:46:13 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I had a man and crew scheduled to come today and cut down a tree. All they
had to do was show up, do the work, and get ca$h.

They didn't show up. I called, and he said he was doing bookkeeping, but he
would try to get there this afternoon. Never showed up.

Everyone wants a job, and no one wants to work.

Sheesh.

Steve

Some of the best craftsmen I know are terrible at schedules. It's
like herding cats. It took me two years to corral the concrete guy I
wanted to do the foundation for my addition. I wasn't in a hurry,
it was well worth the wait.

Cutting down a tree may or may not be craft, depends on the tree and
surroundings. Watching a really good arborist at work is quite a
thrill. It's precision work.

60-foot tree with split trunk that was aimed right at my house is now
firewood. First clue upon return from a trip was when Mary spotted
the chain I'd use to brace it coiled neatly on my concrete apron. I
missed the show, too bad. I didn't expect that job to be done
before Thanksgiving, but maybe the guy owed Neighbor Con a favor.
(It was Con's tree).

Con helped me unload my genny tonight, the one that I got from my
neighbor at the lake. I am shot with luck to have good neighbors!

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:44:09 -0700, Sunworshipper
wrote:



Need a tree to practice on? Only thing is that I'm too busy to push
my other truck out of the way at the moment. Easy dead tree that I
could fell myself in the right direction and have never run a chain
saw. Been a helper for cutting sticks in deep snow with a homicidal
step father and kinda got the idea down.

You may have noted how I dislike drama queens, but I'll mention
that it's dangerous to assume that any tree of any size is "easy".
Many or most do turn out to be, it's the ones that aren't that tree
guys call widowmakers.

That isn't to say you shouldn't go for it, not at all. I merely
suggest that you never assume that a standing tree of any size, alive
or dead, is "easy".

Case in point: the 60' tree a pro just dropped for my nieghbor
turned out to have a rotten hollow core way on one side. It would
definitely not have fallen as expected if just felled. This pro
took it apart from top down, all drops controlled with lines, so there
were no surprises. These guys love playing Tarzan on high, swinging
on ropes from trunk to trunk and rappelling down, it's a great show
.... but every move is carefully calculated in advance.

You may have noted how I dislike drama queens, but I'll mention
that it's dangerous to assume that any tree of any size is "easy".
Many or most do turn out to be, it's the ones that aren't that tree
guys call widowmakers.

That isn't to say you shouldn't go for it, not at all. I merely
suggest that you never assume that a standing tree of any size, alive
or dead, is "easy".

Case in point: the 60' tree a pro just dropped for my nieghbor
turned out to have a rotten hollow core way on one side. It would
definitely not have fallen as expected if just felled. This pro
took it apart from top down, all drops controlled with lines, so there
were no surprises. These guys love playing Tarzan on high, swinging
on ropes from trunk to trunk and rappelling down, it's a great show
... but every move is carefully calculated in advance.

But Don.... how else are they going to justify that $1,300 bill for
doing the job???? "Swinging in Tree" Show to start at 2:00PM G
Ken.

"Ignoramus1729" wrote in message
.. .
Such people are the majority of "contractors" who work around
homes. It is a typical case, in my experience, not an exception. I
think that people who can actually do what they set out to do,
actually end up in different trades.

I'll second that opinion. In our area there continues to be a great deal of
new construction. When one can find a contractor willing to do fix-up or
clean-up work you're very lucky if they finish. "Things get in the way".

I've had eight or ten such experiences in the last six years here. Last
year we hired a professional brush-clearing firm to clean out around our
fish pond. It's a good four hundred feet of bank, and was heavily
over-grown.

The bid-man came out with a trailer full of those heavy-duty brush chopper
mowers that have the blade sticking out the front end -- like the DR brush
mowers, only seriously bigger. He had two other strapping young fellows in
the crew cab.

He gave us a bid (a bit high, but nobody else would bid), we accepted, and
he said they'd be back two days hence to start.

Imagine our surprise when they actually DID show up!

After two hours work, during which they cleaned out about 40' of bank, they
packed up and left, saying "it's too hard". DUH? They physically saw the
site and made the bid based upon the characteristics. Then they quit.

It happens all the time.

LLoyd

Same sort of thing has been happening to me ever since I started to try to
get 4 rental units ready to rent for a friend. My painters back went out and
he took a week off. Then he got dehydrated on his full time painting job and
lost 2 days. My tiler disappears for a day or two every so often. He paid
his helper in advance and he disappeared for three days. They all do
excellent work. The ones that do low quality jobs show right up on time do a
bad job and then want paid. I'd go crazy if I did this all the time.
Karl


"SteveB" wrote in message
news:s9l0f.263$fE5.58@fed1read06...
I had a man and crew scheduled to come today and cut down a tree. All they
had to do was show up, do the work, and get ca$h.

They didn't show up. I called, and he said he was doing bookkeeping, but
he
would try to get there this afternoon. Never showed up.

Everyone wants a job, and no one wants to work.

Sheesh.

Steve

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote in message
m...


"Ignoramus1729" wrote in message
.. .
Such people are the majority of "contractors" who work around
homes. It is a typical case, in my experience, not an exception. I
think that people who can actually do what they set out to do,
actually end up in different trades.

I'll second that opinion. In our area there continues to be a great deal
of new construction. When one can find a contractor willing to do fix-up
or clean-up work you're very lucky if they finish. "Things get in the
way".

I've had eight or ten such experiences in the last six years here. Last
year we hired a professional brush-clearing firm to clean out around our
fish pond. It's a good four hundred feet of bank, and was heavily
over-grown.

The bid-man came out with a trailer full of those heavy-duty brush chopper
mowers that have the blade sticking out the front end -- like the DR brush
mowers, only seriously bigger. He had two other strapping young fellows
in the crew cab.

He gave us a bid (a bit high, but nobody else would bid), we accepted, and
he said they'd be back two days hence to start.

Imagine our surprise when they actually DID show up!

After two hours work, during which they cleaned out about 40' of bank,
they packed up and left, saying "it's too hard". DUH? They physically
saw the site and made the bid based upon the characteristics. Then they
quit.

It happens all the time.

LLoyd


I want to replace 600 sq foot of sod ( Vegas ), called 3 companies from the
yellow pages
two were no shows the third guy came over and quoted me $1890.00 for the
job.

Time to change occupations landscaping pays much better than making chips.

Best Regards
Tom.

There's a caveat to this rule:

1.a. Everyone wants something done for nothing.

1.b. Everyone wants top quality work and fly by night prices.

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:s9l0f.263$fE5.58@fed1read06...
I had a man and crew scheduled to come today and cut down a tree. All
they
had to do was show up, do the work, and get ca$h.

They didn't show up. I called, and he said he was doing bookkeeping, but
he
would try to get there this afternoon. Never showed up.

Everyone wants a job, and no one wants to work.

Sheesh.

Steve

Yep. The last dead skag I dealt with was a 16" red oak that had been
dead for at least 5 years. I hooked the Jeep winch to it, chained the
Jeep to a convient tree, put some good tension on. Object was to put
enough tension on it to make sure it went where it was supposed to.
Thing came out by the roots, stump and all. No chainsaw. Glad I wasn't
under it sawing away.

Don Foreman wrote:

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 20:44:09 -0700, Sunworshipper
wrote:



Need a tree to practice on? Only thing is that I'm too busy to push
my other truck out of the way at the moment. Easy dead tree that I
could fell myself in the right direction and have never run a chain
saw. Been a helper for cutting sticks in deep snow with a homicidal
step father and kinda got the idea down.


You may have noted how I dislike drama queens, but I'll mention
that it's dangerous to assume that any tree of any size is "easy".
Many or most do turn out to be, it's the ones that aren't that tree
guys call widowmakers.

That isn't to say you shouldn't go for it, not at all. I merely
suggest that you never assume that a standing tree of any size, alive
or dead, is "easy".

Case in point: the 60' tree a pro just dropped for my nieghbor
turned out to have a rotten hollow core way on one side. It would
definitely not have fallen as expected if just felled. This pro
took it apart from top down, all drops controlled with lines, so there
were no surprises. These guys love playing Tarzan on high, swinging
on ropes from trunk to trunk and rappelling down, it's a great show
... but every move is carefully calculated in advance.

"Nottingham" wrote in message
...
There's a caveat to this rule:

1.a. Everyone wants something done for nothing.

I agree with that. Many workmen want to be paid for work they don't do. Or
they want to be paid up front and you never see them again. Or they do 10%
of the work, and want 50% of the money because a. their wife is in the
hospital b. they have to pay their guys or c. their dog needs a liver
transplant.


1.b. Everyone wants top quality work and fly by night prices.


Maybe that describes you, but no me. I have paid more than what was fair
many times for top quality work.

Steve

Nottingham wrote:
There's a caveat to this rule:

1.a. Everyone wants something done for nothing.

1.b. Everyone wants top quality work and fly by night prices.

and i get it.
i contacted a landscaper in may and said "i want
~3 trees here, here, and there. install them when
a) they will survive b) you don't have anything
better to do. just give me a days warning so we
can finalize placement." mid Nov i got a call and
my three trees. landscapers do have a season when
they are busy but that doesn't mean you can't get
cheaper rates if you are willing to have your nice new
tree installed with no leaves and wait 6 months to
see it bloom. of course you may get screwed by a hard
freeze but thems the chances you take to be cheap


laz

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:drx0f.301$fE5.277@fed1read06...

"Nottingham" wrote in message
...
There's a caveat to this rule:

1.a. Everyone wants something done for nothing.

I agree with that. Many workmen want to be paid for work they don't do.
Or
they want to be paid up front and you never see them again. Or they do
10%
of the work, and want 50% of the money because a. their wife is in the
hospital b. they have to pay their guys or c. their dog needs a liver
transplant.


1.b. Everyone wants top quality work and fly by night prices.


Maybe that describes you, but no me. I have paid more than what was fair
many times for top quality work.

Steve

Hey I want a FAIR price. I buy the better/best tool at the best price
possible. If I find a decent vendor with fair pricing and good service I
stick with them.

In my experience there are the following characters when bidding on work:

1. "Cheap ass" (I want world class for nothing) will haggle and complain and
WASTE MY TIME and will NEVER buy (I call them "window shoppers" or
"tourists" or "dumb ass" who thinks they know everything but wouldn't know a
good deal if it bit them in the ass)

2. "Know what they want" and will plunk down cash then and there for the
right price (the "knowledgeable consumer")

3. "Skin flint" (for these you need to double the price then give them a 10%
discount after severe haggling and then chase them for 3 years to collect
your money)

4. "Indecisive" who doesn't really know what they want, changes their minds
300 times and wants changes to the order every five minutes and wastes your
time. You educate them, get them ready to buy, then they give the business
to a "fly by nighter" who shows up in the last second with a low ball and
wins the contract. 6 months later "indecisive" shows up on your door step
to complain about shoddy workmanship and broken promises.

Nottingham wrote:

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:drx0f.301$fE5.277@fed1read06...


"Nottingham" wrote in message
...


There's a caveat to this rule:

1.a. Everyone wants something done for nothing.


I agree with that. Many workmen want to be paid for work they don't do.


Or


they want to be paid up front and you never see them again. Or they do


10%


of the work, and want 50% of the money because a. their wife is in the
hospital b. they have to pay their guys or c. their dog needs a liver
transplant.



1.b. Everyone wants top quality work and fly by night prices.



Maybe that describes you, but no me. I have paid more than what was fair
many times for top quality work.

Steve



Hey I want a FAIR price. I buy the better/best tool at the best price
possible. If I find a decent vendor with fair pricing and good service I
stick with them.

In my experience there are the following characters when bidding on work:

1. "Cheap ass" (I want world class for nothing) will haggle and complain and
WASTE MY TIME and will NEVER buy (I call them "window shoppers" or
"tourists" or "dumb ass" who thinks they know everything but wouldn't know a
good deal if it bit them in the ass)

2. "Know what they want" and will plunk down cash then and there for the
right price (the "knowledgeable consumer")

3. "Skin flint" (for these you need to double the price then give them a 10%
discount after severe haggling and then chase them for 3 years to collect
your money)

4. "Indecisive" who doesn't really know what they want, changes their minds
300 times and wants changes to the order every five minutes and wastes your
time. You educate them, get them ready to buy, then they give the business
to a "fly by nighter" who shows up in the last second with a low ball and
wins the contract. 6 months later "indecisive" shows up on your door step
to complain about shoddy workmanship and broken promises.






Repeat # 4 over again because they never learn a lesson. Hopefully you
have learned your lesson and won't fall for it...however, it always
looks like you are finally getting the business and we tend to fall into
the trap.

Koz

Hey I want a FAIR price. I buy the better/best tool at the best price
possible. If I find a decent vendor with fair pricing and good service I
stick with them.

Yup. I research a tool to see which one I want, then shop for price. And
no sense switching from someone doing you right.


In my experience there are the following characters when bidding on work:

1. "Cheap ass" (I want world class for nothing) will haggle and complain
and
WASTE MY TIME and will NEVER buy (I call them "window shoppers" or
"tourists" or "dumb ass" who thinks they know everything but wouldn't know
a
good deal if it bit them in the ass)


When I did wrought iron, if a customer griped about the half down in advance
or the price, I just put an x on the proposal, and would never do the work.
They usually called back in a few months with a sad tale about how their BIL
or some illegal alien did a crappy job. I got to where I could read them,
and if I just didn't like someone, I put an x on their proposal.

2. "Know what they want" and will plunk down cash then and there for the
right price (the "knowledgeable consumer")


You get those through referrals. I gravitated towards that shortly after
going into wrought iron. I got the commercial apartment accounts for their
repair welding. I could go out and make more repairing a gate than if I had
made the thing. They only wanted to know WHEN it would be done. Always
treated them right on the price, but hardly ever had to give an estimate.
Except for carport repairs.

3. "Skin flint" (for these you need to double the price then give them a
10%
discount after severe haggling and then chase them for 3 years to collect
your money)


See answer to number one. Skinflints never got past the proposal page.
Always had someone who could do it cheaper. So, I'd say, "The main thing is
that you are satisfied. Sounds like your BIL will do a good job. Good
day."

4. "Indecisive" who doesn't really know what they want, changes their
minds
300 times and wants changes to the order every five minutes and wastes
your
time. You educate them, get them ready to buy, then they give the
business
to a "fly by nighter" who shows up in the last second with a low ball and
wins the contract. 6 months later "indecisive" shows up on your door step
to complain about shoddy workmanship and broken promises.


Again, I just didn't deal with them once I got rolling. I had too many
people who knew what they wanted, or just wanted to know WHEN I could get to
it.

Those apartment managers loved to go into their meetings and say, "The
repair was done yesterday. Or, I it WILL be done day after tomorrow."

AND, when I told them day after tomorrow, that was it. I was there and got
it done. If I was running late, I called. I did not have to compete for
business, and newcomers couldn't get my business away from me.

Do it right the first time. Show up when you say you'll be there, or call
and tell them you are running late. Call them right back on estimates or at
least tell them when you can get there. Keeps them from calling someone
else. Don't EVER not show up. Be competitive on price, not cheap, as it
makes your work seem inferior. Be nice. Stand your ground with creeps.
Lots of people out there who just want someone to come when they say they
will come, do the work, do it right, and do it for a competitive price.

That's what gets and keeps a customer, and what makes a salesman out of that
customer so they will get you more good work. Good customers gave me good
referrals.

Steve

snip

See answer to number one. Skinflints never got past the proposal page.
Always had someone who could do it cheaper. So, I'd say, "The main thing is
that you are satisfied. Sounds like your BIL will do a good job. Good
day."

4. "Indecisive" who doesn't really know what they want, changes their
minds
300 times and wants changes to the order every five minutes and wastes
your
time. You educate them, get them ready to buy, then they give the
business
to a "fly by nighter" who shows up in the last second with a low ball and
wins the contract. 6 months later "indecisive" shows up on your door step
to complain about shoddy workmanship and broken promises.


Again, I just didn't deal with them once I got rolling. I had too many
people who knew what they wanted, or just wanted to know WHEN I could get to
it.

Those apartment managers loved to go into their meetings and say, "The
repair was done yesterday. Or, I it WILL be done day after tomorrow."

AND, when I told them day after tomorrow, that was it. I was there and got
it done. If I was running late, I called. I did not have to compete for
business, and newcomers couldn't get my business away from me.

Do it right the first time. Show up when you say you'll be there, or call
and tell them you are running late. Call them right back on estimates or at
least tell them when you can get there. Keeps them from calling someone
else. Don't EVER not show up. Be competitive on price, not cheap, as it
makes your work seem inferior. Be nice. Stand your ground with creeps.
Lots of people out there who just want someone to come when they say they
will come, do the work, do it right, and do it for a competitive price.

That's what gets and keeps a customer, and what makes a salesman out of that
customer so they will get you more good work. Good customers gave me good
referrals.

Steve


Gee Steve.... I dunno, but it seems like you're making 'way too much
sense G. Treat 'em right and you'll never be out of work.....
Ken.

Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote

Gee Steve.... I dunno, but it seems like you're making 'way too much
sense G. Treat 'em right and you'll never be out of work.....
Ken.


I was a steel erection contractor in the state of Nevada for nine years. I
sold my business for a good profit.

Once I got started, I never had to go looking for business. Just take care
of what I had.

Staying busy is no problem for a bad workman. Here in Las Vegas, there are
something like 3,000 new people every month. In a small town, if you do bad
work, the info spreads fast. You starve. Here, you can do terrible work,
and so long as you have a good Yellow Page ad, a TV ad including a girl with
big tits, or visibility of some sort, you will stay busy from new people and
those who choose businesses by the cuteness of their spokespeople.

In lots of trades, mediocre and just plain bad workmen stay busy and even
make money.

They live by karma, and are surrounded by lowlifes, takers, leeches, and
other people who seek them out. They find each other like the opposite
poles of any magnets.

Trouble is, they work HARDER than those who do it honestly. And they NEVER
.......... EVER ....... have a clue that they are.

Steve

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:50:12 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


See answer to number one. Skinflints never got past the proposal page.
Always had someone who could do it cheaper. So, I'd say, "The main thing is
that you are satisfied. Sounds like your BIL will do a good job. Good
day."

These are called "tire kickers"

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner