http://www.reandev.com/taliban/

HTH
--
Cliff

"Cliff" wrote in message
...
http://www.reandev.com/taliban/

HTH
--
Cliff

Yeah, so what's your point?

Walt

"Walt" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Cliff" wrote in message

So, Walt, why are people (you) still replying to Cliff? Does the saying
"ignore it and it will go away" mean anything to you, by any chance?

Tim

--
"California is the breakfast state: fruits, nuts and flakes."
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:35:34 -0500, "Tim Williams"
wrote:

"Walt" wrote in message
link.net...

"Cliff" wrote in message

So, Walt, why are people (you) still replying to Cliff? Does the saying
"ignore it and it will go away" mean anything to you, by any chance?

"The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism"
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

[
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make
constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on
clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of
enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are
persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of
"need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of
torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of
prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The
people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic
problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of
government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and
military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be
almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional
gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality
are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian
of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled
by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly
controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople
and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational
tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist
nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is
common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the
religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business
aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the
government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor
is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are
either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to
promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia.
It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored
or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly
attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the
police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people
are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil
liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police
force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always
are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each
other to government positions and use governmental power and authority
to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in
fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be
appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are
a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear
campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use
of legislation to control voting numbers or political district
boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also
typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
]

http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm

HTH
--
Cliff

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:35:34 -0500, "Tim Williams"
wrote:

"Walt" wrote in message
link.net...

"Cliff" wrote in message

So, Walt, why are people (you) still replying to Cliff? Does the saying
"ignore it and it will go away" mean anything to you, by any chance?

Tim

Mom always said dont pick at a scab, it will never heal..so I kill
filed the Noid a year ago.

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

"Tim Williams" wrote in message
...
snip-----

"ignore it and it will go away"

Tim

Chuckle!

But not in this case, apparently. g

Harold

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:28:58 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Mom always said dont pick at a scab, it will never heal..so I kill
filed the Noid a year ago.

He'd rather be wrong yet again G.
--
Cliff

It's just the media, I don't take the media with one grain of salt.

**** em, paid corporate propaganda masters.

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:34:07 -0700, the opaque "Harold and Susan
Vordos" clearly wrote:

"Tim Williams" wrote in message
"ignore it and it will go away"

Chuckle!

But not in this case, apparently. g

How can you be sure? Fifty idiots reply to his crap daily.

-
Gently-used Firestone tires for sale at discount!
-----------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:34:07 -0700, the opaque "Harold and Susan
Vordos" clearly wrote:

"Tim Williams" wrote in message
"ignore it and it will go away"

Chuckle!

But not in this case, apparently. g

How can you be sure? Fifty idiots reply to his crap daily.

-

Good point!

Harold

"STATE MILITIA" wrote in message
ups.com...
It's just the media, I don't take the media with one grain of salt.

**** em, paid corporate propaganda masters.

A fellow liberal! Welcome!

Dan



--

"With respect to public acknowledgment of religious belief, it is entirely
clear from our Nation's historical practices that the Establishment Clause
permits this disregard of polytheists and believers in unconcerned deities,
just as it permits the disregard of devout atheists. "

Scalia, J., dissenting

SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES

No. 03-1693
McCREARY COUNTY, KENTUCKY, et al., PETITIONERS
v.
AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION OF KENTUCKY et al.


"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually
come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the
State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military
consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to
use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy
of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the
State."

-- Joseph Goebbels, Propaganda Minister, Third Reich

Boy, I don't see how anyone could read this list and not see it's almost a
perfect description of the Bush presidency. I'd be interested to hear
someone argue that this list and the Bush administration are not like two
peas in a pod. I love a good case of denial. Do we have an American version
of "Baghdad Bob" here?

Hawke


"The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism"
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

[
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make
constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on
clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of
enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are
persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of
"need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of
torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of
prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The
people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic
problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of
government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and
military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be
almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional
gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality
are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian
of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled
by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly
controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople
and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational
tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist
nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is
common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the
religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business
aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the
government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor
is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are
either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to
promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia.
It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored
or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly
attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the
police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people
are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil
liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police
force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always
are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each
other to government positions and use governmental power and authority
to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in
fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be
appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are
a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear
campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use
of legislation to control voting numbers or political district
boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also
typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 05:58:32 GMT, Strabo
wrote:

"The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism"
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

[

This definition is partially inaccurate.

Only parts 1, 3, 4, 6, and 7 are consistent elements
of fascism.

Parts 2

[
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of
enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are
persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of
"need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of
torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of
prisoners, etc.
]

[
Cheney comes out in favor of keeping Gitmo
Bush, Cheney Attack Amnesty International
"For Amnesty International to suggest that somehow the United States
is a violator of human rights, I frankly just don't take them
seriously.": Bush calls Amnesty International's "gulag" report absurd
(three times in two sentences)
Guantanamo Judge: “I don’t care about international law. I don’t want
to hear the words ‘international law’ again. We are not concerned with
international law.”
Rumsfeld to approve new guidelines that will formalize the
administration's policy of imprisoning without the protections of the
Geneva Conventions and enable the Pentagon to legally hold "ghost
detainees,"
US 'preparing to detain terror suspects for life without trial'
U.S. oks evidence gained through torture.
The Bush administration has concluded for the first time that some
non-Iraqi prisoners captured by American forces in Iraq are not
entitled to the protections of the Geneva Conventions
July 1, 2003: U.S. Suspends Military Aid to Nearly 50 Countries:
because they have supported the International Criminal Court and
failed to exempt Americans from possible prosecution.
US has at least 9000 prisoners in secret detention
U.S. listed as cause of most human rights abuses
]

and 5

[
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be
almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional
gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality
are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian
of the family institution.
]

[
It's legal again, to fire gov't workers for being gay
Bush calls for Constitutional ban on same-sex marriages
Bush refuses to sign U.N proposal on women's "sexual" rights
W. David Hager chairman of the FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs
Advisory Committee does not prescribe contraceptives for single women,
does not do abortions, will not prescribe RU-486 and will not insert
IUDs. Hager believes that headaches, PMS and eating disorders can be
cured by reading Scripture.
The State Department has awarded an explicitly anti-feminist U.S.
group part of a US$10 million grant to train Iraqi women in political
participation and democracy.
]


are politically correct borrowings from the UN
charter.

As compared to the neocons?

The Communist party of the USSR was quite progressive
when it came to putting women in positions of authority.

Well, you now have "Ann" Coulter
http://www.ramdac.org/images/anncoulter1.jpg and Rice,
right?

It seems that security states like women in power because they
are more easily duped and controlled.

As compared to wingers?

Number 2 is irrelevant. Individual rights don't exist
under fascism,

You just seem to have contradicted yourself.

or the UN for that matter.

??
Which bit of the UN charter?
It's the neocons that got the US tossed out of the
UN's human rights commission, right?

Historically, parts 8, 9 10, and 11 may or may not play a
role in fascism.

What about in this specific case?
--
Cliff

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:18:34 -0700, "Hawke"
wrote:

Boy, I don't see how anyone could read this list and not see it's almost a
perfect description of the Bush presidency. I'd be interested to hear
someone argue that this list and the Bush administration are not like two
peas in a pod. I love a good case of denial. Do we have an American version
of "Baghdad Bob" here?

Hawke



Lemme guess.... You and Cliffy are bum-buddies from waaaaaaay back
when...


BK

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:18:34 -0700, "Hawke"
wrote:

Boy, I don't see how anyone could read this list and not see it's almost a
perfect description of the Bush presidency. I'd be interested to hear
someone argue that this list and the Bush administration are not like two
peas in a pod. I love a good case of denial. Do we have an American version
of "Baghdad Bob" here?

Hawke

An US version of Baghadad Bob? Id guess you would be it.

Gunner



"The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism"
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

[
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make
constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on
clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of
enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are
persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of
"need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of
torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of
prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The
people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic
problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of
government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and
military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be
almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional
gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality
are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian
of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled
by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly
controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople
and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational
tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist
nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool
to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is
common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the
religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business
aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the
government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor
is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are
either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to
promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia.
It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored
or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly
attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the
police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people
are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil
liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police
force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always
are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each
other to government positions and use governmental power and authority
to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in
fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be
appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are
a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear
campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use
of legislation to control voting numbers or political district
boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also
typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.


"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

Boy, I don't see how anyone could read this list and not see it's almost
a
perfect description of the Bush presidency. I'd be interested to hear
someone argue that this list and the Bush administration are not like two
peas in a pod. I love a good case of denial. Do we have an American
version
of "Baghdad Bob" here?

Hawke



Lemme guess.... You and Cliffy are bum-buddies from waaaaaaay back
when...

Who's Cliffy? Never heard of the guy but it sounds like you have. I just
calls 'em like I sees 'em. That list describing fascism looks strikingly
similar to what's become of the good old USA.; from the excessive
flag-waving, to the incarceration of people for life without charges, to the
glorification of war and all things military. Anyone that can't see what's
happening probably has some German blood in them.

Hawke

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 04:45:55 -0400, Cliff wrote:

HTH

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comme...882459,00.html
"I'm losing patience with my neighbours, Mr Bush"

[
That's why I want to blow up Mr Johnson's garage and kill his wife and
children. Strike first! That'll teach him a lesson. Then he'll leave
us in peace and stop peering at me in that totally unacceptable way.
]
[
I'm going to give the whole street two weeks - no, 10 days - to come
out in the open and hand over all aliens and interplanetary hijackers,
galactic outlaws and interstellar terrorist masterminds, and if they
don't hand them over nicely and say 'Thank you', I'm going to bomb the
entire street to kingdom come.

It's just as sane as what George W. Bush is proposing - and, in
contrast to what he's intending, my policy will destroy only one
street.
]

Hawke wrote:


Boy, I don't see how anyone could read this list and not see it's almost
a
perfect description of the Bush presidency. I'd be interested to hear
someone argue that this list and the Bush administration are not like two
peas in a pod. I love a good case of denial. Do we have an American
version
of "Baghdad Bob" here?

Hawke



Lemme guess.... You and Cliffy are bum-buddies from waaaaaaay back
when...

Who's Cliffy?

You must know him by a different name. Ask him next time you two are mating
what his real name is.

--
Ragheads - piles of **** with the toilet paper still stuck to it.
Illegal aliens - just as worthless as ragheads.