Hello Everyone,

I am having problems with moisture in my compressed air supply. I would be
very interested in speaking to anyone who has constructed a compressed air
dryer. Links to any relevant web site would also be appreciated.

Bob Segrest

"Bob Segrest" wrote in message
...
Hello Everyone,

I am having problems with moisture in my compressed air supply. I would
be
very interested in speaking to anyone who has constructed a compressed air
dryer. Links to any relevant web site would also be appreciated.

I have often wondered if a flow-through tank in the shop 'fridge would
work. I guess it would depend on the flow rate.

Vaughn




Bob Segrest

Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Bob Segrest" wrote in message
...

Hello Everyone,

I am having problems with moisture in my compressed air supply. I would

be

very interested in speaking to anyone who has constructed a compressed air
dryer. Links to any relevant web site would also be appreciated.


I have often wondered if a flow-through tank in the shop 'fridge would
work. I guess it would depend on the flow rate.
Yes, it absolutely will work. A loose coil of copper tube will work
even better.

I got a commercial refrigerated dryer that needed a new starting relay
and a little Freon, and it works really well. I get NO water at all
when paint spraying, or when running an air bearing spindle motor that
requires dry air. The manufacturer (Zeks) has a web site with some
pictures and info on what is in their patented design.

Jon

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
ervers.com...
I have often wondered if a flow-through tank in the shop 'fridge
would
work. I guess it would depend on the flow rate.
Yes, it absolutely will work. A loose coil of copper tube will work
even better.

I thought about the tube idea, but how would you collect the water that
you condense out of the compressed air?

Vaughn

Vaughn Simon wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
servers.com...


I have often wondered if a flow-through tank in the shop 'fridge


would


work. I guess it would depend on the flow rate.


Yes, it absolutely will work. A loose coil of copper tube will work
even better.



I thought about the tube idea, but how would you collect the water that
you condense out of the compressed air?


A coalescing-type filter would do. The Zeks site might give some
ideas on how to make the separator. Mostly, they have a big bunch of
aluminum discs that have been punched to make "fingers", or something
along that line, in a chamber that allows the air to swirl around a bit
as it flows in the side and out the top. The water comes out the bottom.

Jon

Bob Segrest wrote:
Hello Everyone,

I am having problems with moisture in my compressed air supply. I would be
very interested in speaking to anyone who has constructed a compressed air
dryer. Links to any relevant web site would also be appreciated.

Bob Segrest


Here's a simple one that I built. It hangs in a bucket of water, added
ice helps. The fitting at the bottom is a drain for the condensate.
Not perfect, but it works pretty good.

http://powdercoatoven.4t.com/Misc%20...%20photos.html

Gary Brady

Industrial air dryers are designed with energy conservation in mind and use
the cold, dry air exiting the cooling heat exchanger to precool the air
coming from the compressor. You could probably make up a couple of"coil in
coil" heat exchangers and use the condensing equipment from an old fridge to
make up the dryer. Air flow should be generally downward with a tee at the
bottom of the coil. A short length of pipe would lead to a float trap which
would allow water to drip out but not air. It wouldn't be difficult to
construct if you have some refrigeration experience and the basic
refrigeration tools like a vac pump and a charging set.

Tom


"Bob Segrest" wrote in message
...
Hello Everyone,

I am having problems with moisture in my compressed air supply. I would
be
very interested in speaking to anyone who has constructed a compressed air
dryer. Links to any relevant web site would also be appreciated.

Bob Segrest

Vaughn Simon writes:

I have often wondered if a flow-through tank in the shop 'fridge would
work. I guess it would depend on the flow rate.

You need a phase-changing substance in contact with the heat exchanger,
like the boiling Freon in a commercial unit, or melting ice in a improvised
design.

So no, cool air in a refrigerator doesn't work effectively, because it
can't transfer much heat.

I've never been in any working enviornment that required air dryers AFAIK. A
well-plumbed air system will generally deliver water-free air.
I spent some years working in autobody shops and manufacturing plants where
a lot of pneumatic cylinders were used in production equipment, and water
wasn't a problem in any of them. That might not be much of a testimonial,
with regards to plasma cutters or other completely dry air requirements
though.

A bad setup example would be to use an undersized capacity air compressor
running excessively, located across the shop with an air hose connected to
it, running across a cool shop floor (where the moisture is obviously going
to condense, and travel to the outlet).

A good system is made up of many properly placed components, but maybe most
importantly having long metal pipe runs to the remote locations/user access,
with the metal piping sloped back toward the receiver of the compressor, so
the moisture in the air has a chance of condensing as the piping cools and
the sloped runs can keep it traveling back to the air receiver.
Adequate placement of drip legs and drains, along with installing the drops
so that they take air from the top side of the sloped system piping runs,
then having water and oil separator/filters at the outlet points, will all
contribute to an almost trouble-free air supply.

WB
..............

"Bob Segrest" wrote in message
...
Hello Everyone,

I am having problems with moisture in my compressed air supply. I would
be
very interested in speaking to anyone who has constructed a compressed air
dryer. Links to any relevant web site would also be appreciated.

Bob Segrest






----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:56:16 -0400, "Wild Bill"
wrote:


A good system is made up of many properly placed components, but maybe most
importantly having long metal pipe runs to the remote locations/user access,
with the metal piping sloped back toward the receiver of the compressor, so
the moisture in the air has a chance of condensing as the piping cools and
the sloped runs can keep it traveling back to the air receiver.
Adequate placement of drip legs and drains, along with installing the drops
so that they take air from the top side of the sloped system piping runs,
then having water and oil separator/filters at the outlet points, will all
contribute to an almost trouble-free air supply.

WB


You are indeed correct.

But..on the other hand..in a manufacturing environment, which is
cheaper..ripping out the exisiting system, or adding a chiller?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Well, I can't think of a practical reason for removing an existing air
delivery system.. the scap value wouldn't do much to offset the costs of
removal.

Retrofitting a proper air system would be very expensive in many
environments, but in a small shop it would be the most cost
effective/practical approach to reduce or eliminate most moisture problems
(but not guarantee absolutely dry air).

If a commercial chiller is needed, one should consider the additional energy
costs required when it's in use. In industry, that's easy.. just reduce the
employee benefits.

Un-common sense (as it is not so common anymore) should deter someone from
installing a problematic system to begin with, and throwing technology and
money at a mistake doesn't actually correct the problem. A condition that at
best, can only be described as "better than it was" isn't much of an
accomplishment.

I haven't torn one apart to see what's involved, but I would think that a
refrigerated water cooler would be a good machine to adapt with a
liquid-filled heat exchanger, to use for drying air. In addition to
fabricating the heat exchanger, it would also need a means of draining off
the water.

WB
...............

"Gunner" wrote in message
...

You are indeed correct.

But..on the other hand..in a manufacturing environment, which is
cheaper..ripping out the exisiting system, or adding a chiller?

Gunner




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:56:22 -0500, in rec.crafts.metalworking you
wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I am having problems with moisture in my compressed air supply. I would be
very interested in speaking to anyone who has constructed a compressed air
dryer. Links to any relevant web site would also be appreciated.

I found a cheap and very effective method after ruining a nice lacquer
paint job on my brother's car.

Go to a HVAC shop and ask for a used but good AC evaporator, an "A"
type. Just solder copper fittings on it and place between the
compressor and your air/water separator. Works *great*! In this case
I would actually plumb it so the condensant will run towards the
separator/filter.

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:07:13 GMT, Ignoramus9179
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:03:59 GMT, John Flanagan wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:56:22 -0500, in rec.crafts.metalworking you
wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I am having problems with moisture in my compressed air supply. I would be
very interested in speaking to anyone who has constructed a compressed air
dryer. Links to any relevant web site would also be appreciated.

I found a cheap and very effective method after ruining a nice lacquer
paint job on my brother's car.

Go to a HVAC shop and ask for a used but good AC evaporator, an "A"
type. Just solder copper fittings on it and place between the
compressor and your air/water separator. Works *great*! In this case
I would actually plumb it so the condensant will run towards the
separator/filter.

Sounds like a great idea... I will give it a try.

I use it without a fan but if you've got a lot of water or use it for
extended run times you might add a fan to help cooling. Even though
the compressor tank gets hot I've never had the outlet of the
evaporator get even noticably warm.

I've never had water in the line since I installed the coil. I
actually scavanged it from my father who was having his AC replaced in
his home.

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:18:47 GMT, Ignoramus9179
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:16:53 GMT, John Flanagan wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:07:13 GMT, Ignoramus9179
Go to a HVAC shop and ask for a used but good AC evaporator, an "A"
type. Just solder copper fittings on it and place between the
compressor and your air/water separator. Works *great*! In this case
I would actually plumb it so the condensant will run towards the
separator/filter.

Sounds like a great idea... I will give it a try.

I use it without a fan but if you've got a lot of water or use it
for extended run times you might add a fan to help cooling. Even
though the compressor tank gets hot I've never had the outlet of the
evaporator get even noticably warm.

I think that I will use a fan. I have two decent fans. I would like to
buy some evaporator from ebay actually, as calling these HVAC guys is
usually a pain. Would a car evaporator be good?

I've never had water in the line since I installed the coil. I
actually scavanged it from my father who was having his AC replaced
in his home.

That's very nice. I threw away a window A/C last year, perhaps I could
have salvaged that coil.

I'd say you need something big bore, the house AC coil I got was 1/2"
ID tubing. These coils I don't think are that expensive new ($120???)
but I don't think it would be a problem calling the HVAC guys. I'm
sure they have lots of them they'd like to get rid of one way or
another.

I've posted a photo of the setup I use. Note the plumbing is so the
coil drains towards the separator. I have an automatic dump valve in
the bowl of the separator so I never have to deal with draining it.
Now all I need is a valve for the tank itself!

http://vulcan.blacksburg.net/~flanagan/rcm/Coil.jpg

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

Any chance you could give us a better picture that shows where the
various connections are attached?

TMT

I made one once: http://www.tinyisland.com/Air%20Dryer/index.html - GWE

John Flanagan wrote:

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:56:22 -0500, in rec.crafts.metalworking you
wrote:


Hello Everyone,

I am having problems with moisture in my compressed air supply. I would be
very interested in speaking to anyone who has constructed a compressed air
dryer. Links to any relevant web site would also be appreciated.


I found a cheap and very effective method after ruining a nice lacquer
paint job on my brother's car.

Go to a HVAC shop and ask for a used but good AC evaporator, an "A"
type. Just solder copper fittings on it and place between the
compressor and your air/water separator. Works *great*! In this case
I would actually plumb it so the condensant will run towards the
separator/filter.

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

I'd say you need something big bore, the house AC coil I got was 1/2"
ID tubing. These coils I don't think are that expensive new ($120???)
but I don't think it would be a problem calling the HVAC guys. I'm
sure they have lots of them they'd like to get rid of one way or
another.

I've posted a photo of the setup I use. Note the plumbing is so the
coil drains towards the separator. I have an automatic dump valve in
the bowl of the separator so I never have to deal with draining it.
Now all I need is a valve for the tank itself!

http://vulcan.blacksburg.net/~flanagan/rcm/Coil.jpg

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.


I have been running a $300 HF dryer for ~year and a half, no worries

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:46:10 GMT, (John
Flanagan) wrote:


I've posted a photo of the setup I use. Note the plumbing is so the
coil drains towards the separator. I have an automatic dump valve in
the bowl of the separator so I never have to deal with draining it.
Now all I need is a valve for the tank itself!

http://vulcan.blacksburg.net/~flanagan/rcm/Coil.jpg


Another way is to cool the air coming out of the compressor before
it gets to the tank. That way you don't even have to worry about
draining the tank. If you'll look at my setup here you can see what
I'm talking about.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/comp.htm

As you can see I put the cooling lines between the compressor and
the tank. It then enters into a cyclone tank which separates the water
from the air before going up into the tank. I put the check valve to
the tank after the separator tank so I can use a solenoid valve in the
bottom of the separator tank to do the unloading. This in effect
drains the separator every time the compressor shuts off.

I've yet to get any real water out of the drain valve of the tank in
1 1/2 years of running. I did get a little bit of mist once but that's
it. The piping into the shop is 1 1/4" and I've got a main drop leg
which all my current outlets get there air at. So far I might of
gotten a couple table spoons of water out of this leg.

It would work even better with a good cooling coil but this was easy
and fairly cheap for me at the time. A air conditioner condenser coil
would work great for this since they're made for the high pressure
side of a system and have a fan built in. The evaporator coil like
you've got is good also and is smaller.


Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

On 15 Aug 2005 12:35:37 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

Any chance you could give us a better picture that shows where the
various connections are attached?

It was simple. As you can see there were two circuits going down each
side of the "A" (called an "A" coil, for obvious reasons). I just
bridged them in parallel and was done with it. Of course putting the
coil directly after the compressor and before the tank would work
better IMO, as suggested by Mr. Cook (the show off :^) ). You would
still need a separator before the tank though. But this makes sense.
It's easy, you'll figure it out.

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 12:47:25 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:

I made one once: http://www.tinyisland.com/Air%20Dryer/index.html - GWE

I take it you're an engineer :^)? Nice job. I'd thought of the same
thing with a flow of water from the faucet to the drain. But never
built it. Of course I did buy the parts though. Came up with the AC
evaporator coil version with lower cost, no maintainence (sp?, too
tired to look it up) later. The nice thing about faucet water is that
it's significantly cooler than air during the hot summer months so you
get a much lower dew point.

John

Please note that my return address is wrong due to the amount of junk email I get.
So please respond to this message through the newsgroup.

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 01:27:26 GMT, Ignoramus9179
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:50:50 -0500, Wayne Cook wrote:


Another way is to cool the air coming out of the compressor before
it gets to the tank. That way you don't even have to worry about
draining the tank. If you'll look at my setup here you can see what
I'm talking about.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/comp.htm

As you can see I put the cooling lines between the compressor and
the tank. It then enters into a cyclone tank which separates the water
from the air before going up into the tank. I put the check valve to
the tank after the separator tank so I can use a solenoid valve in the
bottom of the separator tank to do the unloading. This in effect
drains the separator every time the compressor shuts off.

I've yet to get any real water out of the drain valve of the tank in
1 1/2 years of running. I did get a little bit of mist once but that's
it. The piping into the shop is 1 1/4" and I've got a main drop leg
which all my current outlets get there air at. So far I might of
gotten a couple table spoons of water out of this leg.

It would work even better with a good cooling coil but this was easy
and fairly cheap for me at the time. A air conditioner condenser coil
would work great for this since they're made for the high pressure
side of a system and have a fan built in. The evaporator coil like
you've got is good also and is smaller.

I am quite awed by your compressor. I am highly surprised that such a
big pump can be effectively driven by only a 7.5 HP motor, with
seemingly big pulley.


I only rarely have trouble when it comes to winning who's got the
biggest contests with it. :-)

I think I stated on the web site that the 7.5 is a little on the
small side. I'm pushing it to the limit (though so far it's worked
fine). I do have a 15hp to put on there but I've not had the free time
to do the needed modifications (I'll have to rework the motor mount on
the tank).

As for the pulley size keep in mind that it's a 1750 motor and the
pulley on the compressor is rather large. I calculated the pulley size
using formula's I found in Machinery Handbook which gave me estimates
on CFM of the compressor and the like. There was also a table for HP
per CFM so using the two I was able to calculate the proper rpm for
the compressor to run with 7.5HP input and calculate the pulley needed
for that rpm. When done and tested it turned out to be pretty close.

I've got a larger pulley on the 15HP motor which will speed up the
compressor some. But I'm not going to go twice the speed that I'm
running with the 7.5HP so that I'll have some head room (plus I don't
want to wear the compressor out to fast).

Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

Wayne Cook wrote:
... I've got a larger pulley on the 15HP motor which will speed up the
compressor some. But I'm not going to go twice the speed that I'm
running with the 7.5HP so that I'll have some head room (plus I don't
want to wear the compressor out to fast).

People occasionally comment that running a compressor more slowly is
better. That it lasts longer. But I would think that its life is
mostly a matter of the number of revolutions that it accumulates. And
it will run only as many as needed to produce the air required. If you
use 1000 cf per day, the compressor will only run the revolutions that
produce 1000 cf, fast or slow.

Running it at twice the rpm will probably create higher cylinder
temperatures while it's running, but the duty cycle will be 1/2 so the
overall effect will be lessened. There may still be some net negative
effect, but I wonder how much, really.

This argument only applies to a situation like Wayne's, where the
compressor is of sufficient size that you don't have to wait for it to
recover. Running a small compressor at twice the speed will not reduce
the duty cycle by 1/2 if it means that you are using more air.

IMHO,
Bob

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 19:27:58 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

Wayne Cook wrote:
... I've got a larger pulley on the 15HP motor which will speed up the
compressor some. But I'm not going to go twice the speed that I'm
running with the 7.5HP so that I'll have some head room (plus I don't
want to wear the compressor out to fast).

People occasionally comment that running a compressor more slowly is
better. That it lasts longer. But I would think that its life is
mostly a matter of the number of revolutions that it accumulates. And
it will run only as many as needed to produce the air required. If you
use 1000 cf per day, the compressor will only run the revolutions that
produce 1000 cf, fast or slow.

Running it at twice the rpm will probably create higher cylinder
temperatures while it's running, but the duty cycle will be 1/2 so the
overall effect will be lessened. There may still be some net negative
effect, but I wonder how much, really.

Well there's two effects that I can think of. One is the extra
heating of the air coming out of the compressor. The other is the
extra heat on the valves causing them to carbon up. There's also the
noise factor which can be considerable. Mine thumps pretty loudly as
it is. I can't imagine what it would sound like at 1000 rpm at which
one guy told me they run similar compressors on drilling rigs.




Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:57:14 -0500, Wayne Cook
wrote:

I can't imagine what it would sound like at 1000 rpm at which
one guy told me they run similar compressors on drilling rigs.

Its not all that loud and makes the rig bounce in time. I ran a shot
hole rig with a big assed Gardner Denver on it. Made drilling in So.
Texas a learning experience.

Gunner

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 08:58:45 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:57:14 -0500, Wayne Cook
wrote:

I can't imagine what it would sound like at 1000 rpm at which
one guy told me they run similar compressors on drilling rigs.

Its not all that loud and makes the rig bounce in time. I ran a shot
hole rig with a big assed Gardner Denver on it. Made drilling in So.
Texas a learning experience.


It's all relative I suppose. With a lot of other noise going on the
addition of the compressor probably isn't as noticeable.


Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 05:18:03 -0500, Wayne Cook
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 08:58:45 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:57:14 -0500, Wayne Cook
wrote:

I can't imagine what it would sound like at 1000 rpm at which
one guy told me they run similar compressors on drilling rigs.

Its not all that loud and makes the rig bounce in time. I ran a shot
hole rig with a big assed Gardner Denver on it. Made drilling in So.
Texas a learning experience.


It's all relative I suppose. With a lot of other noise going on the
addition of the compressor probably isn't as noticeable.

Ayup..being run from the PTO on the trucks engine (F300) at full
gallop, the rotary table banging around and the drill stem in the mast
singing in time, along with the returning air and cuttings from up out
of the hole...the compressor was barely noticable G

Gunner



Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty."
Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly
save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 05:18:03 -0500, Wayne Cook
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 08:58:45 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:57:14 -0500, Wayne Cook
wrote:

I can't imagine what it would sound like at 1000 rpm at which
one guy told me they run similar compressors on drilling rigs.

Its not all that loud and makes the rig bounce in time. I ran a shot
hole rig with a big assed Gardner Denver on it. Made drilling in So.
Texas a learning experience.


It's all relative I suppose. With a lot of other noise going on the
addition of the compressor probably isn't as noticeable.

Ayup..being run from the PTO on the trucks engine (F300) at full
gallop, the rotary table banging around and the drill stem in the mast
singing in time, along with the returning air and cuttings from up out
of the hole...the compressor was barely noticable G

Gunner


Well, I'm a little confused here. Every rig I was on, they pumped drilling
mud down the center of the pipe to flush out the cuttings. Big massive,
mean-looking mud pumps. Just wondering under what conditions they would
want to use compressed air instead of mud? I didn't work on the rigs, just
a helo mech. killing time.

Garrett Fulton

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:42:36 -0400, "gfulton"
wrote:



Ayup..being run from the PTO on the trucks engine (F300) at full
gallop, the rotary table banging around and the drill stem in the mast
singing in time, along with the returning air and cuttings from up out
of the hole...the compressor was barely noticable G

Gunner


Well, I'm a little confused here. Every rig I was on, they pumped drilling
mud down the center of the pipe to flush out the cuttings. Big massive,
mean-looking mud pumps. Just wondering under what conditions they would
want to use compressed air instead of mud? I didn't work on the rigs, just
a helo mech. killing time.


He was running a shot hole rig. In other words a little truck
mounted rig that didn't go real deep. I've heard of some water well
drillers who do the same. It keeps you from having to mess with the
mess of mud for quick and dirty holes.

The guy I was talking to was talking about the old rotary rigs where
they did use mud. But there's still plenty of air used as well for
controls and the like. They also used a Gardner Denver like mine with
the only exception being they had a oil pump and mine doesn't. He said
they run them straight off the crankshaft of those old diesel rigs.


Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:42:36 -0400, "gfulton"
wrote:



Ayup..being run from the PTO on the trucks engine (F300) at full
gallop, the rotary table banging around and the drill stem in the mast
singing in time, along with the returning air and cuttings from up out
of the hole...the compressor was barely noticable G

Gunner


Well, I'm a little confused here. Every rig I was on, they pumped
drilling
mud down the center of the pipe to flush out the cuttings. Big massive,
mean-looking mud pumps. Just wondering under what conditions they would
want to use compressed air instead of mud? I didn't work on the rigs,
just
a helo mech. killing time.


He was running a shot hole rig. In other words a little truck
mounted rig that didn't go real deep. I've heard of some water well
drillers who do the same. It keeps you from having to mess with the
mess of mud for quick and dirty holes.

The guy I was talking to was talking about the old rotary rigs where
they did use mud. But there's still plenty of air used as well for
controls and the like. They also used a Gardner Denver like mine with
the only exception being they had a oil pump and mine doesn't. He said
they run them straight off the crankshaft of those old diesel rigs.


Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

Alright, that clears it up. Thanks Wayne. I do remember the big stacks of
50 lb. bags of the stuff they mixed the mud from. Compressed air would be
less trouble, I reckon. A lot less.
Garrett

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:58:38 -0400, "gfulton"
wrote:


"Wayne Cook" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:42:36 -0400, "gfulton"
wrote:



Ayup..being run from the PTO on the trucks engine (F300) at full
gallop, the rotary table banging around and the drill stem in the mast
singing in time, along with the returning air and cuttings from up out
of the hole...the compressor was barely noticable G

Gunner


Well, I'm a little confused here. Every rig I was on, they pumped
drilling
mud down the center of the pipe to flush out the cuttings. Big massive,
mean-looking mud pumps. Just wondering under what conditions they would
want to use compressed air instead of mud? I didn't work on the rigs,
just
a helo mech. killing time.


He was running a shot hole rig. In other words a little truck
mounted rig that didn't go real deep. I've heard of some water well
drillers who do the same. It keeps you from having to mess with the
mess of mud for quick and dirty holes.

The guy I was talking to was talking about the old rotary rigs where
they did use mud. But there's still plenty of air used as well for
controls and the like. They also used a Gardner Denver like mine with
the only exception being they had a oil pump and mine doesn't. He said
they run them straight off the crankshaft of those old diesel rigs.


Wayne Cook
Shamrock, TX
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm

Alright, that clears it up. Thanks Wayne. I do remember the big stacks of
50 lb. bags of the stuff they mixed the mud from. Compressed air would be
less trouble, I reckon. A lot less.
Garrett

But its VERY dependant on the substructure as to what mode of drilling
you can use air with. It must be firm, monolithic and the cuttings
must be light enough to blow to the surface. It cant be too hard that
cutter friction melts down the drill bit. South Texas with its vast
aluvial deposits of clay etc etc were perfect for air drilling. Most
of the other places I sunk shot holes, required drilling mud. The mud
does several things, the least of which is bringing the cuttings to
the surface. Most shot holes run between 100-600 feet deep, so you are
drilling into strata composed most often of gravel, topsoil, rocks and
so forth, all of which tend to fall back into the hole and collapse
it. So the drilling mud acts as a low grade binder and holds the hole
walls from collapsing before you can load the charge (well..its
supposed to...sigh) and often applies a coating of thickened mud to
the sides fo the hole as a temporary "cement".

If I had a dollar for every sack of drilling mud Ive dumped into both
mud pits and shot hole pits..Id be a very very rich man today. If I
had a nickle for every shovel of cuttings Ive scooped out of shot hole
mud pits, Id be even richer.
This is one of the reasons I view #2 round point shovels with some
horror G

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 17:03:24 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

snip

If I had a dollar for every sack of drilling mud Ive dumped into both
mud pits and shot hole pits..Id be a very very rich man today. If I
had a nickle for every shovel of cuttings Ive scooped out of shot hole
mud pits, Id be even richer.
This is one of the reasons I view #2 round point shovels with some
horror G

Gunner

I grew up raising rice, so if you drill three holes in the blade and
weld a step on top, you've got one of my least favorite implements in
the world.

Pete Keillor