Ok, after reading the nice posts by you guys, I measured the OC voltage on the
high setting on my
Century 230 AC welder and found it to be only 40V. I then switched the positive
lead to the low
setting and found an OC voltage of 70V.

This made a BIG difference in being able to strike and hold an arc (still not an
easy thing to do for me)

I then heated some 7018 AC 1/8" rods in the oven at 300 degrees for about 30 min
and set the
amperage at 110 amps.

I got this weld:

http://www.skyko.com/halloween/weld.jpg

Not really pretty, but i think it has penetrated both pieces. Actually, it has
melted a bit too much into
the vertical piece...was that because of too much current? too large a diameter
rod? holding the rod not
at 45 degrees?

Thanks for any more tips,

Rick

Looks fine to me for a first try.

Yep, the 'LO' setting usually has the higher open circuit voltage, much
easier to strike an arc. Pic is a bit hard to tell, looks like you have
a bit of undercut on the upper piece plus the bead looks pretty big.
There is no ruler but I assume this is the 1-1/2" stock you mentioned
earlier.

Try holding the rod at about 30 degrees from horizontal to push the weld
puddle up against the vertical part. Watch the puddle closely to see
if you are getting fluid flow on both pieces you are welding on. Keep
you bead size down to about 3/8" wide measured on the diagonal.

Keep at it!!

Rick wrote:
Ok, after reading the nice posts by you guys, I measured the OC voltage on the
high setting on my
Century 230 AC welder and found it to be only 40V. I then switched the positive
lead to the low
setting and found an OC voltage of 70V.

This made a BIG difference in being able to strike and hold an arc (still not an
easy thing to do for me)

I then heated some 7018 AC 1/8" rods in the oven at 300 degrees for about 30 min
and set the
amperage at 110 amps.

I got this weld:

http://www.skyko.com/halloween/weld.jpg

Not really pretty, but i think it has penetrated both pieces. Actually, it has
melted a bit too much into
the vertical piece...was that because of too much current? too large a diameter
rod? holding the rod not
at 45 degrees?

Thanks for any more tips,

Rick

There ya go! Now wire brush it and paint it and it will look great! - GWE

Rick wrote:

Ok, after reading the nice posts by you guys, I measured the OC voltage on the
high setting on my
Century 230 AC welder and found it to be only 40V. I then switched the positive
lead to the low
setting and found an OC voltage of 70V.

This made a BIG difference in being able to strike and hold an arc (still not an
easy thing to do for me)

I then heated some 7018 AC 1/8" rods in the oven at 300 degrees for about 30 min
and set the
amperage at 110 amps.

I got this weld:

http://www.skyko.com/halloween/weld.jpg

Not really pretty, but i think it has penetrated both pieces. Actually, it has
melted a bit too much into
the vertical piece...was that because of too much current? too large a diameter
rod? holding the rod not
at 45 degrees?

Thanks for any more tips,

Rick

Rick wrote:

http://www.skyko.com/halloween/weld.jpg

Oh! The halloween-welder, who doesn't want to learn to weld! :-)


Not really pretty, but i think it has penetrated both pieces.

Not to bad! But you photographed the best weld (my crystal ball tells
me) ;-)


Actually, it has melted a bit too much into the vertical piece

Did you weld in the same position as the photo was? I guess. You have to
position the stick about 30 or 35 degrees from the horizontal. E.g. not
symetrical to the joint, but bit lower.
You have to fight gravity (of the molten material) with blast (of the
arc).

...was that because of too much current? too large a diameter
rod?

Guessing from the photos, the weld will keep. But:
It is on the thick end of a good weld (and close to of a too cold one; I
see this at the end of the fillet. It should be concave).
You should either:
- use more current
- try a thinner rod
- move the stick faster (least probable cause)

What's the thickness of the tube?
What rod diameter did you use?
What current setting?
Was there a gap between the two tubes? If yes, how much?


Nick

--
"Wissenschafts"-Sendung auf einem der Privat-Kanäle:
"Der Behälter fasst 200.000 Kubik-Liter."
Wie viele Quadrat-Stunden braucht es dann wohl, um ihn voll zu bekommen?

On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:10:46 GMT, "Rick" wrote:

Ok, after reading the nice posts by you guys, I measured the OC voltage on the
high setting on my
Century 230 AC welder and found it to be only 40V. I then switched the positive
lead to the low
setting and found an OC voltage of 70V.

This made a BIG difference in being able to strike and hold an arc (still not an
easy thing to do for me)

I then heated some 7018 AC 1/8" rods in the oven at 300 degrees for about 30 min
and set the
amperage at 110 amps.

I got this weld:

http://www.skyko.com/halloween/weld.jpg

Not really pretty, but i think it has penetrated both pieces. Actually, it has
melted a bit too much into
the vertical piece...was that because of too much current? too large a diameter
rod? holding the rod not
at 45 degrees?

Thanks for any more tips,

You're rollin' now!

7018 is one of the more difficult rods to strike an arc with. Try
some 7014.

When starting out, it can be hard to tell operator limitations from
equipment problems. Century would not be my recommendation for a
machine to learn with, or my choice to use now.

From the large buildup, it looks like the rod was not moved quickly
enough. I burn enough holes myself. The gap at the upper left may be
due to not keeping the rod closer to vertical. The vertical tube is
being heated at the very end, which is not much metal.
Was the joint tacked on this side before completing the fillet weld?
When the joint is started, the metal is cool. By the time the end of
the joint is reached, especially with slow movement, quite a bit of
heat has accumulated.


On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:10:46 GMT, "Rick" wrote:

Ok, after reading the nice posts by you guys, I measured the OC voltage on the
high setting on my
Century 230 AC welder and found it to be only 40V. I then switched the positive
lead to the low
setting and found an OC voltage of 70V.

This made a BIG difference in being able to strike and hold an arc (still not an
easy thing to do for me)

I then heated some 7018 AC 1/8" rods in the oven at 300 degrees for about 30 min
and set the
amperage at 110 amps.

I got this weld:

http://www.skyko.com/halloween/weld.jpg

Not really pretty, but i think it has penetrated both pieces. Actually, it has
melted a bit too much into
the vertical piece...was that because of too much current? too large a diameter
rod? holding the rod not
at 45 degrees?

Thanks for any more tips,

Rick

I went to home depot and got some 3/32" 7018 AC rods made by Lincoln.

This is too hard. The rods keep sticking to the work when trying to strike an
arc,
then the coating breaks off. I tried the current at 80 amps then 100 amps. The
1/8" rod at least I was able to get a weld going.

I forsee that even if I master this stick welding, it is going to take me
FOREVER to
weld up these 32 or so joints. If MIG is that much easier, it might be worth
the investment.

Lets say I have $1000 to spend on a MIG outfit, including a gas cylinder and an
autodarkening helmet.

Welder:

SP-175 PLUS - about $750
http://store.aglevtech.net/yhst-1586...pplmigwe1.html

Lincoln Pro MIG 175 - on ebay for around $475 new.
(is the only diff between this and hte sp-175 plus the tapped voltage?, ie, gun
and regulator the same?)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...9218 799&rd=1

I think i should go for a 220V machine since I use 220 in my shop, so maybe rule
out the 135.

Gas cylinder is probably about $100, and am guessing the HF helmet is less than
$200...

So which MIG?

thanks for all the free help, btw!

Rick

I went to home depot and got some 3/32" 7018 AC rods made by Lincoln.

This is too hard. The rods keep sticking to the work when trying to
strike an
arc,

That's partly because you chose a tough rod. Try some 3/32" 6013. You'll
be amazed at the difference.

Lincoln Pro MIG 175 - on ebay for around $475 new.
(is the only diff between this and hte sp-175 plus the tapped voltage?,
ie, gun
and regulator the same?)

I have an SP-170T which is an older version of the Pro MIG 175 and I checked
parts listings some time ago and found that the SP-170T, SP-175T, MIGPak 15
and WeldPak 155 all used identical parts except for the sticker on the front
panel. I've never checked on the + model because there would be so many
differences internally but I'm fairly sure they use the same torch, etc.

IMHO, unless you plan to become a professional weldor you're wasting your
money on the + model. For one thing, it could make it more difficult to
learn because you have so many more options to choose from. Also, if it
fails the + model will be more expensive to repair and of course there is
more that can go wrong with it.

I think i should go for a 220V machine since I use 220 in my shop, so
maybe rule
out the 135.

Unless the portability of a 110V machine is important to you you'll be much
better off with the 220V unit in the long run. You won't find much (steel
that is) that you can't weld with it. When I had a 110V MIG I used my old
Lincoln tombstone stick welder for heavy stuff. Since I replaced it with
the SP-170T I *very* rarely use the tombstone.

Gas cylinder is probably about $100, and am guessing the HF helmet is less
than
$200...

I recommend at least an 80 CF cylinder and it'll probably be a bit more $
than that unless you find a used one somewhere. I paid $114 for mine from
Holox about 4 years ago, including the gas. I later bought a 125 CF pure
argon tank for TIG at an auction for $40!

The helmet you can buy for around $50 if you catch them on sale at HF. This
one seems to be the most widely recommended:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91212

and it just happens to be on sale for $50 right now. :-)

And while I'm throwing in my $0.02 worth, I have a pointer for you on the
welding. Before you actually run a bead like the one you show in the
picture you'll want to tack the thing together first to minimize warping.
For example, if you just weld the bead on one side and then stand back and
look at it you'll probably see that your upright piece of tubing now leans a
bit toward the side the weld is on. If instead you put a small tack weld on
all 4 corners before you run the actual bead the tacks will help to minimize
warping.

In fact, it's usually a good idea to tack large sections of your project
together before welding so you can be sure everything fits properly.

Also, there is one gotcha on MIG welding that a lot of people seem to run
into when beginning to MIG weld. It is possible to lay a beautiful bead
only to find that it's mostly lying on top of the metal rather than having
penetrated into the metal. Don't ask me how I know about this one! :-D

IMHO the best way to learn not to do this is to learn to watch the puddle
instead of just zipping along looking at the cool arc and assuming
everything's working well. In other words, get some scrap and practice a
bit before you start on your project. It won't take long to get the hang of
it and you'll be very glad you did.

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"

"Rick" wrote in message
news:jPume.12432$Ri3.7769@trnddc09...

Lets say I have $1000 to spend on a MIG outfit, including a gas cylinder
and an autodarkening helmet.

Gas cylinder is probably about $100, and am guessing the HF helmet is less
than
$200...

So which MIG?


Again, I would like to recommend the HTP line of welding machines. I have
been very pleased with my HTP welder, which I've owned and used without
problem for 17 years (they've been in business for 21 years). As far as I
know, all their products are made in the US. You can read about the company
he

http://www.usaweld.com/company/index.htm

Their welders are very ruggedly built, with heavy solid-copper transformers,
all-metal wire feed mechanisms (as opposed to plastic), very nice steel
cabinets, etc. And they carry a 3-year warranty, as well as a 90-day
no-questions-asked money-back guarantee. Take a look at these information
pages:

http://www.usaweld.com/products/mig_...omparison.html

http://www.usaweld.com/products/mig_welders/inside.html

http://www.usaweld.com/products/mig_...s/outside.html

In fact, I recently ordered some replacement contact tips (consumables) from
HTP and happened to speak with the president of the company, Jeff Noland. I
just gave him my name on the phone and he immediately knew who I was and
what system I had bought (even though it's been years since I've ordered
anything from them). How many companies offer that kind of service these
days?

HTP offers a 160 Amp (220VAC) unit for $919.00:

http://www.usaweld.com/products/mig_...s/mig_160.html

I think this would be the best unit for your needs. You might be able to get
a discount by buying direct from HTP (like I did when I bought mine).

This unit includes automatic stitch and spot welding controls. (Stitch
welding is especially handy for starting out with MIG, particularly on thin
materials. It reduces the chance of burn-through and helps you make really
nice beads.)

Compare the size and features of the HTP MIG 160 to the little welders you
were looking at earlier. The larger cabinet allows for larger transformers,
diodes, and capacitor banks, as well as more air circulation for better
cooling. Also, the HTP welders are mounted on a wheeled undercarriage with a
tray to securely mount and carry your gas bottle. (Compressed gas bottles
should never be allowed to stand free where they could fall over and break
off their neck -- with disastrous results! That means that with those small,
"portable" style welders, you'll need to chain your gas bottle to the wall.)

HTP also sells a training video for $18.50 (plus $3.85 shipping):

http://www.usaweld.com/products/mig_welders/video.html

I would recommend that you buy this before buying any MIG welder. It will
teach you about MIG welding, and will be a valuable training aid no matter
what MIG welder you eventually buy. I think HTP will subtract the cost of
the video if you decide to buy one of their welders.

All this might sound like I work for the company, but I don't -- I have no
financial interest in HTP. I'm just a very satisfied customer.

Regards,
Michael

snip really good stuff!
Also, there is one gotcha on MIG welding that a lot of people seem to run
into when beginning to MIG weld. It is possible to lay a beautiful bead
only to find that it's mostly lying on top of the metal rather than having
penetrated into the metal. Don't ask me how I know about this one! :-D

IMHO the best way to learn not to do this is to learn to watch the puddle
instead of just zipping along looking at the cool arc and assuming
everything's working well. In other words, get some scrap and practice a
bit before you start on your project. It won't take long to get the hang of
it and you'll be very glad you did.

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


Thanks Keith, very informative post. Do you think I am giving up on the AC
stick welder
too soon? Everyone on here says MIG MIG MIG and gives stories about how their 3
y.o.
welds car trailers with it. I wish I knew how the MIG would weld this compared
to the stick.
If it is going to take me 30 hours to weld this with the stick once I learn how
to actually get
the arc started once out of every ten strikes, and spending some cash on a MIG
setup would
mean I can do the job with equal strength welds in 5 hours, then it is worth it.

Sigh,

Rick

Thanks Keith, very informative post. Do you think I am giving up on the
AC
stick welder
too soon? Everyone on here says MIG MIG MIG and gives stories about how
their 3
y.o.
welds car trailers with it. I wish I knew how the MIG would weld this
compared
to the stick.

Well I've always been one to use any excuse to buy a new tool and based on
your apparent interests I think you'll get a lot of use out of and enjoy
using the MIG. But it wouldn't hurt to try another type of rod with your
current welder before giving up on it.

Probably the best thing you could do is find someone that will let you test
drive their MIG to see if it's as easy as everyone says it is. Isn't there
someone you know that has one you can try? Even a cheap fluxcore just to
see what it's like...

I'd be happy to let you try mine but IIRC you're on the west coast and I'm
in North Carolina. :-(

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"


"Rick" wrote in message
news:Uqwme.5714$615.1667@trnddc08...
snip really good stuff!
Also, there is one gotcha on MIG welding that a lot of people seem to run
into when beginning to MIG weld. It is possible to lay a beautiful bead
only to find that it's mostly lying on top of the metal rather than
having
penetrated into the metal. Don't ask me how I know about this one! :-D

IMHO the best way to learn not to do this is to learn to watch the puddle
instead of just zipping along looking at the cool arc and assuming
everything's working well. In other words, get some scrap and practice a
bit before you start on your project. It won't take long to get the hang
of
it and you'll be very glad you did.

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


Thanks Keith, very informative post. Do you think I am giving up on the
AC
stick welder
too soon? Everyone on here says MIG MIG MIG and gives stories about how
their 3
y.o.
welds car trailers with it. I wish I knew how the MIG would weld this
compared
to the stick.
If it is going to take me 30 hours to weld this with the stick once I
learn how
to actually get
the arc started once out of every ten strikes, and spending some cash on a
MIG
setup would
mean I can do the job with equal strength welds in 5 hours, then it is
worth it.

Sigh,

Rick

"Keith Marshall" wrote in message
.. .

The helmet you can buy for around $50 if you catch them on sale at HF.
This one seems to be the most widely recommended:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91212

and it just happens to be on sale for $50 right now. :-)

Harbor Freight sells a couple of similar auto-dark helmets. The other one is
this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46092

It's also on sale for $50. I tried both in the store and they both seemed to
have the same features and specs, but I choose the second one. I can't
really remember why I like it better. I was a bit skeptical of these
low-cost Chinese helmets, but mine works fine. Having an auto-dark is a heck
of a lot better than using traditional flip-down helmets.

Don't forget you'll also need some leather welding gloves. And SteveB had a
good recommendation about the ear plugs.

- Michael

On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:10:46 GMT, "Rick" wrote:

Ok, after reading the nice posts by you guys, I measured the OC voltage on the
high setting on my
Century 230 AC welder and found it to be only 40V. I then switched the positive
lead to the low
setting and found an OC voltage of 70V.

This made a BIG difference in being able to strike and hold an arc (still not an
easy thing to do for me)

I then heated some 7018 AC 1/8" rods in the oven at 300 degrees for about 30 min
and set the
amperage at 110 amps.

I got this weld:

http://www.skyko.com/halloween/weld.jpg

Not really pretty, but i think it has penetrated both pieces. Actually, it has
melted a bit too much into
the vertical piece...was that because of too much current? too large a diameter
rod? holding the rod not
at 45 degrees?

Thanks for any more tips,

Rick

Looks like a weld to me. And you really didnt need to heat the rod,
unless its been wet at one time.

Is that 2" square tubing? Try 3/32" rod at about 60 amps or so.

Seems to me that you are getting the hang of it nicely.

Btw...for knocking off the slag..its really really hard to beat a 4"
angle grinder and one of Tom Gardners wire brushes on it.

Gunner


Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

On Mon, 30 May 2005 02:24:15 GMT, "Rick" wrote:

I went to home depot and got some 3/32" 7018 AC rods made by Lincoln.

This is too hard. The rods keep sticking to the work when trying to strike an
arc,
then the coating breaks off. I tried the current at 80 amps then 100 amps. The
1/8" rod at least I was able to get a weld going.

I forsee that even if I master this stick welding, it is going to take me
FOREVER to
weld up these 32 or so joints. If MIG is that much easier, it might be worth
the investment.

Lets say I have $1000 to spend on a MIG outfit, including a gas cylinder and an
autodarkening helmet.

Welder:

SP-175 PLUS - about $750
http://store.aglevtech.net/yhst-1586...pplmigwe1.html

Lincoln Pro MIG 175 - on ebay for around $475 new.
(is the only diff between this and hte sp-175 plus the tapped voltage?, ie, gun
and regulator the same?)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...9218 799&rd=1

I think i should go for a 220V machine since I use 220 in my shop, so maybe rule
out the 135.

Gas cylinder is probably about $100, and am guessing the HF helmet is less than
$200...

So which MIG?


You really dont need the gas cylinder. You can get very acceptable
welds with flux core wire. You just have to knock off the slag like
you do with stick. I keep an old Lincoln Weldpack 100 on a "hot cart"
with a spool of .035 Dualshield in it for fast tacks and bench
repairs. Its 110vt, no gas, and works like a champ on stuff up to
about 1/4"=5/16". Thicker than that and I run the bigger mig. If you
are doing thin wall..that would not be a bad MIG (or the later models)
for you. And you can add a solenoid and a gas bottle later. Ive gone
almost exclusivly to CO2 on my big MIG because of the cost and the
types of rough welding I do..it works just dandy.

Gunner

thanks for all the free help, btw!

Rick



"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

On Mon, 30 May 2005 03:50:18 GMT, "Keith Marshall"
wrote:

IMHO the best way to learn not to do this is to learn to watch the puddle
instead of just zipping along looking at the cool arc and assuming
everything's working well. In other words, get some scrap and practice a
bit before you start on your project. It won't take long to get the hang of
it and you'll be very glad you did.


And use the BFH test on your practice work, then look the welded area
from the side to see what kind of penetration you were getting so you
can adjust accordingly.

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

I just bought the auto shade helmet from harbor. It was marked 99.99 in the
store.
I got to the counter and asked about some of the welders and hoods they have
online but not in the store the rep told me thats what they are sent. I
asked about having it shipped in because I don't like to use credit cards
online, he replied that Harbor doesn't do that and even if you pay in
advance for the item they won't. After a bit of talking the rep ended up
giving me the helmet for 59.99 and also the two year warranty with it.
Harbor is having a parking lot sale 6/4 and 6/5 from the flier he had on the
counter at the Davenport store, don't know if its going to be at the other
stores. I also found out that Harbor has a big catalog that you can have
sent to you if you go to their website.

"DeepDiver" wrote in message
...
"Keith Marshall" wrote in message
.. .

The helmet you can buy for around $50 if you catch them on sale at HF.
This one seems to be the most widely recommended:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91212

and it just happens to be on sale for $50 right now. :-)

Harbor Freight sells a couple of similar auto-dark helmets. The other one
is this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46092

It's also on sale for $50. I tried both in the store and they both seemed
to have the same features and specs, but I choose the second one. I can't
really remember why I like it better. I was a bit skeptical of these
low-cost Chinese helmets, but mine works fine. Having an auto-dark is a
heck of a lot better than using traditional flip-down helmets.

Don't forget you'll also need some leather welding gloves. And SteveB had
a good recommendation about the ear plugs.

- Michael

No need to call yourself a moron.

:P

"Rick" wrote in message
news:qdqme.6367$m%3.2239@trnddc02...
Ok, after reading the nice posts by you guys, I measured the OC voltage on
the
high setting on my
Century 230 AC welder and found it to be only 40V. I then switched the
positive
lead to the low
setting and found an OC voltage of 70V.

This made a BIG difference in being able to strike and hold an arc (still
not an
easy thing to do for me)

I then heated some 7018 AC 1/8" rods in the oven at 300 degrees for about
30 min
and set the
amperage at 110 amps.

I got this weld:

http://www.skyko.com/halloween/weld.jpg

Not really pretty, but i think it has penetrated both pieces. Actually,
it has
melted a bit too much into
the vertical piece...was that because of too much current? too large a
diameter
rod? holding the rod not
at 45 degrees?

Thanks for any more tips,

Rick

On Mon, 30 May 2005 02:24:15 GMT, "Rick" wrote:

I went to home depot and got some 3/32" 7018 AC rods made by Lincoln.

This is too hard. The rods keep sticking to the work when trying to strike an
arc,
then the coating breaks off. I tried the current at 80 amps then 100 amps. The
1/8" rod at least I was able to get a weld going.

I forsee that even if I master this stick welding, it is going to take me
FOREVER to
weld up these 32 or so joints. If MIG is that much easier, it might be worth
the investment.

Lets say I have $1000 to spend on a MIG outfit, including a gas cylinder and an
autodarkening helmet.

Welder:

SP-175 PLUS - about $750
http://store.aglevtech.net/yhst-1586...pplmigwe1.html

Lincoln Pro MIG 175 - on ebay for around $475 new.
(is the only diff between this and hte sp-175 plus the tapped voltage?, ie, gun
and regulator the same?)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...9218 799&rd=1

I think i should go for a 220V machine since I use 220 in my shop, so maybe rule
out the 135.

Gas cylinder is probably about $100, and am guessing the HF helmet is less than
$200...

So which MIG?

I've said that 7018 is hard to strike, you'd do much better with 7014.
Having said that: you could do what you want to do with stick and
some practice, but you could do it better, sooner, faster and more
enjoyably with MIG.

For your projects, you'd be very glad you went 220 volt. The 110
volt boxes are really excellent for sheetmetal and autobody work but
your projects are a reach for them. They can do it in skilled hands,
220 does it like a walk in the park. The 220 machines have the woof
to do the job well. Further, the torches are more robust, and the
wire feed mechanisms are considerably more substantial. Balky
wirefeed can be very frustrating.

I'm an amateur that has been stickwelding for 30 years, and
MIG-welding thin metal (autobody) for 20 years. It took me some time
and practice to get reasonably competent with stick, but I've built a
lot of stuff with 7014 and 11-gage steel. I never really trusted the
little MIG for fab with 11-gage or thicker, went with stick for that
when strength was important. I did stick some stuff on my trailer
with the little MIG, including a spare tire mount that won't be coming
loose this lifetime (used fluxcore there) but I wouldn't build a
trailer with it. The little Linc duty-cycled out just welding on
stake sockets. It got it done with frequent rest periods.

I got my 220-volt MIG last autumn. Spent a windfall check on it.
I shoulda done it years ago. I love it! I'll probably never
stickweld again. If you lived nereby I'd weld your stuff for the
sheer fun of doing it -- and maybe a 12pack of Summit Pale Ale.

First project was cantilever supports for a workbench. My good
neighbor helped me with the woodwork. When it was done, he hopped up
on the bench and jumped up and down on it to check it out. Yy! I
figured the bench was good for a 500 lb point load per support, but I
cringed a little when he did that. He said it felt like floor.
Geez, it's an electronics bench, didn't plan to rebuild engines on it!
http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/workbench/

$100 or a bit less for a 40 cu ft gas cylinder is pretty typical.
The HF helmet is more like $50 on a good day. They offer several
models, others (e.g. Gunner) can advise on which one to get.

Please at least check with a local welding dealer before you buy the
welder or bottle from EBay or other internet source. You can try
before you buy and you should get a few minutes of good demo and
instruction to boot. My local dealer usually can come pretty close
to web prices with shipping if I quote a bona fide web price from a
reputable source. Don't get spooked by "list" or "retail" price. A
good welding store will work with you.

On last visit I looked at gas regulators for a friend. They had some
rebuilts for less than anything I've seen on EBay, and they stand
behind what they sell.

The guys at "my" good welding store know welding and can be very
helpful. John, the counterman there, , has welded 3/8" hinges to a
big trailer using a 90-amp 110-volt wirefeed box. It can be done
though few could do it. Lew, the VP, has taught welding and used
to build trailers as a sideline (with MIG) simply because he loves
to weld. Having a good relationship with a good welding store has
been worth a lot to this hacker over the years. My biz is a fleafart
to them in the general scheme of things, but they still treat me like
a customer, greet me by name when I visit, answer my dumb questions
and demo anything I'd like to try. John will happily crimp hose
fittings or lugs on welding cable that results in a sale of under 20
bux that visit.

Brands: I think Hobart (made by Miller) is probably most bang for the
buck. It's a comptent no-frills machine that does the job, has
many happy users. I think there's even a Hobart Handler users group.

I went with Miller for reasons irrelevant to the work you want to do.
I think the Lincoln has continuous (rather than stepped) voltage
control. That is very useful with sheetmetal and autobody work but
not at all necessary for the thicker metal you want to weld.

Keith Marshall wrote:

For example, if you just weld the bead on one side and then stand back and
look at it you'll probably see that your upright piece of tubing now leans a
bit toward the side the weld is on. If instead you put a small tack weld on
all 4 corners before you run the actual bead the tacks will help to minimize
warping.

Tacking and welding (+checking angle) in the right sequence is an art by
itself. If experienced, you can even adjust out of 90deg. joints. Or,
you tack the part on one side out of 90deg. and weld on the other side
to get it straight.
More verbouse:
Say you weld a 90deg. joint. If the angle is OK after tacking weld the
flat side center-center (starting in the middle, welding in and out). If
it is over 90 deg. weld from the outside to the inside, below 90deg.
inside to outside.

Takes "some" experience. :-)


Nick
--
"Wissenschafts"-Sendung auf einem der Privat-Kanäle:
"Der Behälter fasst 200.000 Kubik-Liter."
Wie viele Quadrat-Stunden braucht es dann wohl, um ihn voll zu bekommen?

Keep using your stick welder and go buy a MIG. You will use both. If you
learn how to stick weld MIG will come real easy. It takes moer skill to use
a stick welder but many of the things you nned to be careful of apply to
MIG.
"Rick" wrote in message
news:Uqwme.5714$615.1667@trnddc08...
snip really good stuff!
Also, there is one gotcha on MIG welding that a lot of people seem to run
into when beginning to MIG weld. It is possible to lay a beautiful bead
only to find that it's mostly lying on top of the metal rather than
having
penetrated into the metal. Don't ask me how I know about this one! :-D

IMHO the best way to learn not to do this is to learn to watch the puddle
instead of just zipping along looking at the cool arc and assuming
everything's working well. In other words, get some scrap and practice a
bit before you start on your project. It won't take long to get the hang
of
it and you'll be very glad you did.

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


Thanks Keith, very informative post. Do you think I am giving up on the
AC
stick welder
too soon? Everyone on here says MIG MIG MIG and gives stories about how
their 3
y.o.
welds car trailers with it. I wish I knew how the MIG would weld this
compared
to the stick.
If it is going to take me 30 hours to weld this with the stick once I
learn how
to actually get
the arc started once out of every ten strikes, and spending some cash on a
MIG
setup would
mean I can do the job with equal strength welds in 5 hours, then it is
worth it.

Sigh,

Rick

Rick wrote:
Ok, after reading the nice posts by you guys, I measured the OC voltage on the
high setting on my
Century 230 AC welder and found it to be only 40V. I then switched the positive
lead to the low
setting and found an OC voltage of 70V.

This made a BIG difference in being able to strike and hold an arc (still not an
easy thing to do for me)

I then heated some 7018 AC 1/8" rods in the oven at 300 degrees for about 30 min
and set the
amperage at 110 amps.

I got this weld:

http://www.skyko.com/halloween/weld.jpg

Not really pretty, but i think it has penetrated both pieces. Actually, it has
melted a bit too much into
the vertical piece...was that because of too much current? too large a diameter
rod? holding the rod not
at 45 degrees?

Thanks for any more tips,

Rick



The sticking trouble might have come from the rod being hot- a hot 7018
will stick faster than cold (especially restrikes of a short rod without
allowing it to cool enough).

Did you happen to get Airco brand rod? I really dislike that stuff- it's
made by Lincoln but it's different from Lincoln AC7018.

Honestly, for a first succesful bead that's not bad. It looks like you
had too long of an arc- keep it as short as you can. On thin stuff, root
penetration is good to have and you get that by running hot with a fast
travel. Gunner's suggestion to go to 3/32" is a good one- I use 3/32"
for a lot of work.

The suggestion to try a 7014 is also good advice. That runs very nice on
AC and gives an attractive weld. There's a lot of slag to it and it's
got a rather soft arc- if you're not paying attention you can get slag
inclusions in a big way. Running a bit uphill helps with this, as does,
again, a short arc and fairly fast travel.

You could try a 6013, but I hate that rod.. When I was a kid, going to
the VoTech school, that's all they would let us run. I struggled with
that rod and finally did some good work, but when I got on a job and
they gave me some 7018 I was thrilled at how nice it ran.

You can get a MIG, but I always try to discourage anyone from having a
MIG (or fluxcore) as a primary machine. Don't be deceived by the theory
"it's faster", 'cause for general fab work it's not necessarily that way.

Also, 7018 strikes best if you scratch it- tapping is asking for it to
stick. Keep something handy that's not grounded to give a couple of good
taps to break the flux off the end before restriking.

John

I think you are giving up too soon on the stick. I suggested 6013, you
insist on working with 7018 Your weld looked fine with the 7018, the
sticking problem is endemic with 7018

Stick vs Mig: If you can consistently start a sick rod, your project
might go 10% faster with a MIG. Cleanup is also faster on the MIG.
Leaving a cold bead on one side of the weld happens with both Mig and
stick, it's just more obvious on the stick weld.

If you want an excuse to go get a new tool, have at it! (Insert Tim
Allen grunt here) If you want to get the job done in minimal amount of
time, then not plan to do any other welding for a while, spend the time
working on the stick welder. If you spent 2 full hours over a couple of
days running 6013 rod downhand on some scrap plate, you will be doing
great. You would spend more time than that just loading up and unpacking
the new MIG, not to mention the $600 to $1200 for the new 220 volt MIG.

wander over to sci.engr.joining.welding the string starting "looking at
Millermatics" on May 20. the original poster was in the same boat as you
are, was looking at the new machines, got his old stick welder to do
what he needed.

Rick wrote:
snip really good stuff!

Also, there is one gotcha on MIG welding that a lot of people seem to run
into when beginning to MIG weld. It is possible to lay a beautiful bead
only to find that it's mostly lying on top of the metal rather than having
penetrated into the metal. Don't ask me how I know about this one! :-D

IMHO the best way to learn not to do this is to learn to watch the puddle
instead of just zipping along looking at the cool arc and assuming
everything's working well. In other words, get some scrap and practice a
bit before you start on your project. It won't take long to get the hang of
it and you'll be very glad you did.

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall



Thanks Keith, very informative post. Do you think I am giving up on the AC
stick welder
too soon? Everyone on here says MIG MIG MIG and gives stories about how their 3
y.o.
welds car trailers with it. I wish I knew how the MIG would weld this compared
to the stick.
If it is going to take me 30 hours to weld this with the stick once I learn how
to actually get
the arc started once out of every ten strikes, and spending some cash on a MIG
setup would
mean I can do the job with equal strength welds in 5 hours, then it is worth it.

Sigh,

Rick

I'd up the current a bit and get the top part of the weld to wick better to
the vertical.
You have a lump where you should have a fillet.

--
Why isn't there an Ozone Hole at the NORTH Pole?

Thanks again for all the tips..i will respond more as I try different things.

I obtained some 3/32" 6013, and am practicing with that. I can't find 7014 at
the local store or home depot..will have to wait till tuesday to go to
a real store.

I ran a bead of the 3/32 down a piece of scrap tube, just on the flat, and it
does seem to just drag along quite a bit easier than the 7018.

One important question I have:

It would make part of the design simpler if I can weld the tubes one on top of
the other at 90degrees instead of a 90 degree butt joint.

Is this going to be ok? I will try one and post a picture.

Rick

Rick wrote:

It would make part of the design simpler if I can weld the tubes one on top of
the other at 90degrees instead of a 90 degree butt joint.

Cutting might be easier (depends on your equipment).
Design easier? I kind of doubt this.
Welding will be a tad harder, and the optics will be ugly. :-)


Is this going to be ok? I will try one and post a picture.

I would be ashamed to show such a joint to someone. ;-))


Nick
--
"Wissenschafts"-Sendung auf einem der Privat-Kanäle:
"Der Behälter fasst 200.000 Kubik-Liter."
Wie viele Quadrat-Stunden braucht es dann wohl, um ihn voll zu bekommen?

"Nick Müller" wrote in message
...
Rick wrote:

It would make part of the design simpler if I can weld the tubes one on top
of
the other at 90degrees instead of a 90 degree butt joint.

Cutting might be easier (depends on your equipment).
Design easier? I kind of doubt this.
Welding will be a tad harder, and the optics will be ugly. :-)


Is this going to be ok? I will try one and post a picture.

I would be ashamed to show such a joint to someone. ;-))


Nick

Yeah, I nixed that idea anyway. I just needed to be able to pass cables through
the tubes, and didn't want to add 2 more welds to the structure. I figured it
out
now though.

On the plus side, I made a quick and dirty welding table out of a 3 foot by 4
foot piece
of 1 inch thick pool table slate, which anyone can get free at their local pool
table dealer.
(They sometimes have 1 of a matched set of 3 break, and they toss the other 2).

It makes *such* a nice precision non coductive surface to weld on, and it is
solid as..well
...a rock :-)

I am getting a bit better welds with the 3/32 6013, but I am having problems in
the first 1/3
of the weld with slag inclusions...the final 2/3 actually looks like a nice
fillet weld. Maybe I
should just weld 2/3 of the joint :-)

rick

Rick wrote:

Yeah, I nixed that idea anyway. I just needed to be able to pass cables
through the tubes, and didn't want to add 2 more welds to the structure.

Now this would have been an argument.


It makes *such* a nice precision non coductive surface to weld on, and it is
solid as..well
..a rock :-)

Non conductive? I prever welding on a table that is conductive. You just
hook ground to the table and don't have to re-clamp gnd whenever you
move work.


I am getting a bit better welds with the 3/32 6013, but I am having
problems in the first 1/3 of the weld with slag inclusions...the final 2/3
actually looks like a nice fillet weld. Maybe I should just weld 2/3 of
the joint :-)

Well, this is the hard part. You have to learn to see the puddle and not
to look at the slag. I don't know your numbering system. I think the
easiest stick are the cellulose-type. But they are more expensive, stink
more and are harder to start.

Nick
--
"Wissenschafts"-Sendung auf einem der Privat-Kanäle:
"Der Behälter fasst 200.000 Kubik-Liter."
Wie viele Quadrat-Stunden braucht es dann wohl, um ihn voll zu bekommen?

Your bad first 1/3 is usually due to racing off before the weld puddle
has fully formed. Try starting about 1/8" from the end, let the puddle
form, move to the end, and do your weld. Once you get the hang of
starting and the puddle, turn your amperage down, it gives you a lot
more time to move the puddle around.

You said a 90 degree butt joint? I assume that means an end into a side??

Welding an end to the side of a tube means that you need to put 2/3rds
of the heat into the side, 1/3 into the end that will burn though the
easiest.

Rick wrote:
"Nick Müller" wrote in message
...

Rick wrote:


It would make part of the design simpler if I can weld the tubes one on top

of

the other at 90degrees instead of a 90 degree butt joint.

Cutting might be easier (depends on your equipment).
Design easier? I kind of doubt this.
Welding will be a tad harder, and the optics will be ugly. :-)



Is this going to be ok? I will try one and post a picture.

I would be ashamed to show such a joint to someone. ;-))


Nick


Yeah, I nixed that idea anyway. I just needed to be able to pass cables through
the tubes, and didn't want to add 2 more welds to the structure. I figured it
out
now though.

On the plus side, I made a quick and dirty welding table out of a 3 foot by 4
foot piece
of 1 inch thick pool table slate, which anyone can get free at their local pool
table dealer.
(They sometimes have 1 of a matched set of 3 break, and they toss the other 2).

It makes *such* a nice precision non coductive surface to weld on, and it is
solid as..well
..a rock :-)

I am getting a bit better welds with the 3/32 6013, but I am having problems in
the first 1/3
of the weld with slag inclusions...the final 2/3 actually looks like a nice
fillet weld. Maybe I
should just weld 2/3 of the joint :-)

rick

On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:19:37 GMT, "Rick" wrote:



I am getting a bit better welds with the 3/32 6013, but I am having problems in
the first 1/3
of the weld with slag inclusions...the final 2/3 actually looks like a nice
fillet weld. Maybe I
should just weld 2/3 of the joint :-)

There is no slag (or smoke) with MIG. :)

That's really a large part of why I far prefer MIG over stick.
Opening the big door for ventilation is no fun in MN during the
winter.

On Mon, 30 May 2005 04:32:15 GMT, "Keith Marshall"
wrote:

Thanks Keith, very informative post. Do you think I am giving up on the
AC
stick welder
too soon? Everyone on here says MIG MIG MIG and gives stories about how
their 3
y.o.
welds car trailers with it. I wish I knew how the MIG would weld this
compared
to the stick.

Well I've always been one to use any excuse to buy a new tool and based on
your apparent interests I think you'll get a lot of use out of and enjoy
using the MIG. But it wouldn't hurt to try another type of rod with your
current welder before giving up on it.

Probably the best thing you could do is find someone that will let you test
drive their MIG to see if it's as easy as everyone says it is. Isn't there
someone you know that has one you can try? Even a cheap fluxcore just to
see what it's like...

I'd be happy to let you try mine but IIRC you're on the west coast and I'm
in North Carolina. :-(

Where on the west coast? If you are in So. Cal, Id be happy to let you
play with any of the welders I have, stick, tig, mig.

Gunner


Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"


"Rick" wrote in message
news:Uqwme.5714$615.1667@trnddc08...
snip really good stuff!
Also, there is one gotcha on MIG welding that a lot of people seem to run
into when beginning to MIG weld. It is possible to lay a beautiful bead
only to find that it's mostly lying on top of the metal rather than
having
penetrated into the metal. Don't ask me how I know about this one! :-D

IMHO the best way to learn not to do this is to learn to watch the puddle
instead of just zipping along looking at the cool arc and assuming
everything's working well. In other words, get some scrap and practice a
bit before you start on your project. It won't take long to get the hang
of
it and you'll be very glad you did.

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


Thanks Keith, very informative post. Do you think I am giving up on the
AC
stick welder
too soon? Everyone on here says MIG MIG MIG and gives stories about how
their 3
y.o.
welds car trailers with it. I wish I knew how the MIG would weld this
compared
to the stick.
If it is going to take me 30 hours to weld this with the stick once I
learn how
to actually get
the arc started once out of every ten strikes, and spending some cash on a
MIG
setup would
mean I can do the job with equal strength welds in 5 hours, then it is
worth it.

Sigh,

Rick




"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

On Mon, 30 May 2005 04:12:04 GMT, "DeepDiver"
wrote:


In fact, I recently ordered some replacement contact tips (consumables) from
HTP and happened to speak with the president of the company, Jeff Noland. I
just gave him my name on the phone and he immediately knew who I was and
what system I had bought (even though it's been years since I've ordered
anything from them). How many companies offer that kind of service these
days?

HTP offers a 160 Amp (220VAC) unit for $919.00:

http://www.usaweld.com/products/mig_...s/mig_160.html

Interesting.....

http://www.danmig.com/mig_200.html
http://www.danmig.com/mig_160.html

Btw...Dan-mig welders are made in Denmark...

http://www.usaweld.com/products/spot...versaspot.html
http://www.danmig.com/spotwelder_spotterxl.htm


My Dan Mig 200 is at least 20 yrs old and is still percolating just
hunky dory, even after spending most of its life in a muffler/autobody
shop.

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:19:37 GMT, "Rick" wrote:


"Nick Müller" wrote in message
.. .
Rick wrote:

It would make part of the design simpler if I can weld the tubes one on top
of
the other at 90degrees instead of a 90 degree butt joint.

Cutting might be easier (depends on your equipment).
Design easier? I kind of doubt this.
Welding will be a tad harder, and the optics will be ugly. :-)


Is this going to be ok? I will try one and post a picture.

I would be ashamed to show such a joint to someone. ;-))


Nick

Yeah, I nixed that idea anyway. I just needed to be able to pass cables through
the tubes, and didn't want to add 2 more welds to the structure. I figured it
out
now though.

On the plus side, I made a quick and dirty welding table out of a 3 foot by 4
foot piece
of 1 inch thick pool table slate, which anyone can get free at their local pool
table dealer.
(They sometimes have 1 of a matched set of 3 break, and they toss the other 2).

It makes *such* a nice precision non coductive surface to weld on, and it is
solid as..well
..a rock :-)

Id go nuts with that table..my steel top welding table is grounded
directly to the machine(s) with a flying ground clamp for stuff that
is rusty and wont make contact very well with the table top.

Becareful of spalling..where you heat the rock up really hot in one
place and a chunk pops out and hits you in the face or the
gonads...G

But it sounds like you are getting a really good start at doing it
right.


I am getting a bit better welds with the 3/32 6013, but I am having problems in
the first 1/3
of the weld with slag inclusions...the final 2/3 actually looks like a nice
fillet weld. Maybe I
should just weld 2/3 of the joint :-)

rick


Gunner


"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown