HELLO OUT THERE IN DIGITAL LAND. IM A MACHINIST/TOOL AND DIE MAKER OF
10 YEARS AND HAVE DECIDED TO START MY OWN SHOP IN THE AKRON OHIO AREA.
EVEN THOUGH THE ECONOMY ISNT AT ITS BEST AND A LOT IF NOT MOST
MANUFACTURING IS GOING TO CHINA,MEXICO AND THE LIKE. SOMTHING INSIDE ME
HAS DRIVEN ME TO START A SHOP. I'VE DONE MY HOMEWORK AND KNOW THAT I'M
IN FOR AN UP HILL STRUGGLE STARTING OUT WITH CONVENTIONAL MACHINES,
12X36 LATHE AND 9X49 MILL. I'VE TALKED AND SENT LINE CARDS OUT TO ABOUT
30 OR 40 PROSPECTS, STARTED CALLING LOCAL MACHINE SHOPS TO SEE IF THEY
HAVE ANY EXTRA WORK TO SUB OUT ALL IN 6 WEEKS TIME. ALTHOUGH I'VE BID
ON FIVE JOBS FROM THE PROSPECTS I HAVE NOT GOT ANY WORK. IF THEIR IS
SOMONE OUT THERE WHO COULD GIVE ME SOME ADVICE I WOULD BE GREATFULL.
LIKE; HOW LONG OF A TIME COULD IT TAKE BEFORE SOME P.O.'S START FLOWING
OUT OF THE FAX MACHINE? WHAT DO THE OTHER SHOPS DO AS FAR AS
MARKETING, FINDING NEW SALES PROSPECTS ECT. DO THE OTHER SHOPS LOOK FOR
SALES OUT OF STATE? HOW DO YOU FIND WORK? REALY ON LONG ESTABLISHED
CUSTOMERS?

First, all caps are very annoying and you're trying to make a good
impression. E-mail me some pix of some of your work and what you charged.
I've got about six fairly simple dies coming up in the next year and I may
want to farm some out if quality and price are right. Put classifieds in
the PD for machine time available, think about sales reps.

wrote in message
oups.com...
HELLO OUT THERE IN DIGITAL LAND. IM A MACHINIST/TOOL AND DIE MAKER OF
10 YEARS AND HAVE DECIDED TO START MY OWN SHOP IN THE AKRON OHIO AREA.
EVEN THOUGH THE ECONOMY ISNT AT ITS BEST AND A LOT IF NOT MOST
MANUFACTURING IS GOING TO CHINA,MEXICO AND THE LIKE. SOMTHING INSIDE ME
HAS DRIVEN ME TO START A SHOP. I'VE DONE MY HOMEWORK AND KNOW THAT I'M
IN FOR AN UP HILL STRUGGLE STARTING OUT WITH CONVENTIONAL MACHINES,
12X36 LATHE AND 9X49 MILL. I'VE TALKED AND SENT LINE CARDS OUT TO ABOUT
30 OR 40 PROSPECTS, STARTED CALLING LOCAL MACHINE SHOPS TO SEE IF THEY
HAVE ANY EXTRA WORK TO SUB OUT ALL IN 6 WEEKS TIME. ALTHOUGH I'VE BID
ON FIVE JOBS FROM THE PROSPECTS I HAVE NOT GOT ANY WORK. IF THEIR IS
SOMONE OUT THERE WHO COULD GIVE ME SOME ADVICE I WOULD BE GREATFULL.
LIKE; HOW LONG OF A TIME COULD IT TAKE BEFORE SOME P.O.'S START FLOWING
OUT OF THE FAX MACHINE? WHAT DO THE OTHER SHOPS DO AS FAR AS
MARKETING, FINDING NEW SALES PROSPECTS ECT. DO THE OTHER SHOPS LOOK FOR
SALES OUT OF STATE? HOW DO YOU FIND WORK? REALY ON LONG ESTABLISHED
CUSTOMERS?

I'm in SoCal and the situation my be different but I doubt if it is
worse then in the rust belt. We have been in business for over 25 years
now, have excellent CNC and conventional equipment and I am having to
feed the company right now. Haven't had a paycheck for several months.
We may not have done everything right but the current climate in
manufacturing sucks. I would suggest you forget your own shop and use
the money to develop an unique product or buy a going manufacturing
company in a niche. We seem to lose a customer to China as fast as we
can find new viable customers. Since we do CNC turning and milling,
small lot stamping, light plate fabrication, conventional machining
and sell used machines we should be very prosperous but we can't get
decent prices for any of our areas of expertise. I am not a negative
person and intend to stay in the machine shop business but to start a
new shop is is just plain silly. There are 5-10 shops a week closing
within 50 miles of mine and my neighbor is on overtime and buying new
machines to keep up with his one customer. Leigh@MarMachine

wrote:
I'm in SoCal and the situation my be different but I doubt if it is
worse then in the rust belt. We have been in business for over 25 years
now, have excellent CNC and conventional equipment and I am having to
feed the company right now. Haven't had a paycheck for several months.
We may not have done everything right but the current climate in
manufacturing sucks. I would suggest you forget your own shop and use
the money to develop an unique product or buy a going manufacturing
company in a niche. We seem to lose a customer to China as fast as we
can find new viable customers. Since we do CNC turning and milling,
small lot stamping, light plate fabrication, conventional machining
and sell used machines we should be very prosperous but we can't get
decent prices for any of our areas of expertise. I am not a negative
person and intend to stay in the machine shop business but to start a
new shop is is just plain silly. There are 5-10 shops a week closing
within 50 miles of mine and my neighbor is on overtime and buying new
machines to keep up with his one customer. Leigh@MarMachine

I know that a) you didn't ask for advise,
and b) some will call this blaspheme, but
have you ever considered repping a Chinese
vendor? I'm not quite sure how you'd go
about it, but I'll bet you could do well.

In my line of work, I've had to make more
and more contacts overseas to stay in business
and I've established some good relations with
people in Taiwan and I'm working on one in
China.

wrote:
HELLO OUT THERE IN DIGITAL LAND. IM A MACHINIST/TOOL AND DIE MAKER OF
10 YEARS AND HAVE DECIDED TO START MY OWN SHOP IN THE AKRON OHIO AREA.

Don't do it. Invest in Google instead. Better return on your money. Or if you
have enough, invest in a rental duplex or bigger.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

I've got no advice for you other than to say keep hustling, keep trying.

I left my great paying job in manufacturing in '91. I've never made more
than 1/4 of the salary, but I wouldn't go back for anything. In my case, I
found a way to make a living selling apples and strawberries. Selling your
skills as a tool and die maker has got to be easier. You gotta find your
little niche, for example debugging and building prototype molds is perfect
for a one man show.

Good Luck

Karl

Look on the bright side. With so much business going overseas, high quality
manual and cnc machines can be had for cheap, at least in my area.

I can't comment on how to make money from a machine shop, but I agree with
others about developing a unique product and selling that.

wrote in message
oups.com...
HELLO OUT THERE IN DIGITAL LAND. IM A MACHINIST/TOOL AND DIE MAKER OF
10 YEARS AND HAVE DECIDED TO START MY OWN SHOP IN THE AKRON OHIO AREA.
EVEN THOUGH THE ECONOMY ISNT AT ITS BEST AND A LOT IF NOT MOST
MANUFACTURING IS GOING TO CHINA,MEXICO AND THE LIKE. SOMTHING INSIDE ME
HAS DRIVEN ME TO START A SHOP. I'VE DONE MY HOMEWORK AND KNOW THAT I'M
IN FOR AN UP HILL STRUGGLE STARTING OUT WITH CONVENTIONAL MACHINES,
12X36 LATHE AND 9X49 MILL. I'VE TALKED AND SENT LINE CARDS OUT TO ABOUT
30 OR 40 PROSPECTS, STARTED CALLING LOCAL MACHINE SHOPS TO SEE IF THEY
HAVE ANY EXTRA WORK TO SUB OUT ALL IN 6 WEEKS TIME. ALTHOUGH I'VE BID
ON FIVE JOBS FROM THE PROSPECTS I HAVE NOT GOT ANY WORK. IF THEIR IS
SOMONE OUT THERE WHO COULD GIVE ME SOME ADVICE I WOULD BE GREATFULL.
LIKE; HOW LONG OF A TIME COULD IT TAKE BEFORE SOME P.O.'S START FLOWING
OUT OF THE FAX MACHINE? WHAT DO THE OTHER SHOPS DO AS FAR AS
MARKETING, FINDING NEW SALES PROSPECTS ECT. DO THE OTHER SHOPS LOOK FOR
SALES OUT OF STATE? HOW DO YOU FIND WORK? REALY ON LONG ESTABLISHED
CUSTOMERS?

"AL" wrote in message
...
Look on the bright side. With so much business going overseas, high
quality manual and cnc machines can be had for cheap, at least in my area.

I can't comment on how to make money from a machine shop, but I agree with
others about developing a unique product and selling that.

If the product has a potentialy large market the folks in china will copy
your
product and flood the market before your pattent is approved.

Best Regards
Tom.

A patent wouldn't do anything--all a competitor has to do is make some
slight changes and the patent no longer applies. Develop something unique,
forget about the patent, sell them for a reasonable price, then move on to
another product as competitors come.

"azotic" wrote in message
news:WTlce.180$%p.103@fed1read04...

"AL" wrote in message
...
Look on the bright side. With so much business going overseas, high
quality manual and cnc machines can be had for cheap, at least in my
area.

I can't comment on how to make money from a machine shop, but I agree
with others about developing a unique product and selling that.

If the product has a potentialy large market the folks in china will copy
your
product and flood the market before your pattent is approved.

Best Regards
Tom.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 01:04:09 -0700, the renowned "azotic"
wrote:


"AL" wrote in message
...
Look on the bright side. With so much business going overseas, high
quality manual and cnc machines can be had for cheap, at least in my area.

I can't comment on how to make money from a machine shop, but I agree with
others about developing a unique product and selling that.

If the product has a potentialy large market the folks in china will copy
your
product and flood the market before your pattent is approved.

Best Regards
Tom.

In partnership with your customer, who will courier samples over to
their suppliers at the first opportunity. Maybe before you've even
started making them in earnest yourself.

Not to be too negative, but you have to expect some of this, and be
happy when it doesn't happen too fast.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

A patent may help to prevent others from suing you, but otherwise its
pretty much worthless as you say as those with the deepest pockets will
win any lawsuit.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 01:04:09 -0700, "azotic" wrote:
"AL" wrote in message
...

Look on the bright side. With so much business going overseas, high
quality manual and cnc machines can be had for cheap, at least in my area.

I can't comment on how to make money from a machine shop, but I agree with
others about developing a unique product and selling that.

If the product has a potentialy large market the folks in china will copy
your product and flood the market before your pattent is approved.

It gets better: You come up with something that's a big hit and
can't make them fast enough, so you farm out manufacturing to a
"supposedly reputable" plant in China. So far, so good...

But when the product is a worldwide hit they cover up your trademark
name on the molds YOU PAID FOR and crank out duplicates, assemble the
product on tooling designs & using methods YOU PAID FOR, and start
selling the products out the back door (wink wink, nod nod) for
cheaper than they're selling them to you for.

(I've seen products like that - their knock-offs of GFCI receptacles
where they milled the names off the mold and stamped new ones in.)

China has absolutely no integrity /at/ /all/ when it comes to
intellectual property rights. If your money is the proper color,
they'll knock off anything. Including counterfeiting the 'UL Listed'
stickers and other safety checks.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:49:22 GMT, the renowned Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 01:04:09 -0700, "azotic" wrote:
"AL" wrote in message
...

Look on the bright side. With so much business going overseas, high
quality manual and cnc machines can be had for cheap, at least in my area.

I can't comment on how to make money from a machine shop, but I agree with
others about developing a unique product and selling that.

If the product has a potentialy large market the folks in china will copy
your product and flood the market before your pattent is approved.

It gets better: You come up with something that's a big hit and
can't make them fast enough, so you farm out manufacturing to a
"supposedly reputable" plant in China. So far, so good...

But when the product is a worldwide hit they cover up your trademark
name on the molds YOU PAID FOR and crank out duplicates, assemble the
product on tooling designs & using methods YOU PAID FOR, and start
selling the products out the back door (wink wink, nod nod) for
cheaper than they're selling them to you for.

Actually, they'll sell them out the front door. At international trade
shows. The look a guy gets when he sees "his" stuff being offered to
everyone-- priceless. Of course they can rationalize it that the buyer
didn't pay the whole cost and doesn't pay the maintenance of the
tooling.

(I've seen products like that - their knock-offs of GFCI receptacles
where they milled the names off the mold and stamped new ones in.)

China has absolutely no integrity /at/ /all/ when it comes to
intellectual property rights. If your money is the proper color,
they'll knock off anything. Including counterfeiting the 'UL Listed'
stickers and other safety checks.

-- Bruce --

*Always* cross-check the file numbers with the agencies.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

OK, Now I get a bigger picture... Its really bad out there.

what should one do... GIVEUP... everybody here is ready to tell how you
can get fixed up, but I feel you have already anticipated what has been
said... I request you please dont give up..

There is a difference in how people to people see. You have a dream, If
needed burn a bit of cash on your dreams, people wont say NO if its
done in stocks, ask them if they havent.

SAMPLES send them it should help.
COSTS control to the bare minimum.
POST more such topic people are searching for you.
FAITH keep builing on it.
DREAM like no one else has.
THINK positive.
TELL ME you wont quit.

Kamal